Tzakiel's UAII 2P Fighter CRT Build

[Tzakiel]

I like the marquee. The strip of logos is cool.
I'm not a Kirby fan, but to each their own.
I'd replace the astro city logos with something specific to your cab.

Maybe a bit early, but a word of advice on having more than 6 buttons...
Current versions of MAME assume you have this layout:
123
456
When you map your 8 buttons globally in MAME, do them like this:
1237
4568

Do that and all the Capcom and Mortal Kombat games will be mapped correctly without you having to do them individually.
NEO GEO fighters will either need to be remapped or you can use your thumb to hit the first button in the second row for D.
I've found that this is actually more comfortable, but was making a NEO GEO themed cab so stuck to the four-in-a-row.

Thanks for tips and feedback. The only real "theme" I have going is that the cabinet is Japanese arcade-inspired, so I went with a (CRT) japanese cabinet as a model for graphics. I do recognize that this isn't a "candy" style cab and so the analogy only goes so far, but I wanted some of the feel to be there.  Maybe I could still get it with something else for the graphics but for now I'm pretty happy with the art.

[emphatic]

I'd loose the Astro City specific stuff from the CPO and just change it to a similar text, especially as I think the colours clashes against the deep red that looks more Vewlix. And you should not mix SEGA and TAITO on one cabinet. 

[a1pharm]

Seriously: kill Kirby

Just do it now

 

[PL1]

Seriously: kill Kirby

Just do it now

 

Scott

[Tzakiel]

Well, the art went to the printer (gameongrafix) last night with a few changes. Will post the final when I get a chance. Next step: fix my box panels to be flush / the right size. Really hoping I don't end up re-cutting most pieces.

[Tzakiel]

Progress: Happy to say that I have got the box panels in excellent shape.



The saw guide acted very very nicely as a router guide as well, which saved my bad work measuring and drawing the lines. I trimmed off the edges which were too long on some panels. I had to use the router because in some cases it was just a few MM.



Everything lines up wonderfully now.



I think it's gonna look good!  A little nervous I will somehow screw it up with paint or screws/glue but hopeful it will go smoothly.

Next steps: sand box panels and rounded corners, cut slot for t-molding, glue/screw together without splitting the MDF.  Paint something that matches the UAII laminate - any suggestions on spraypaints? The UAII is what I would call satin "plus" or maybe semi-gloss. It has some texture but it's extremely fine, not like a bumpy finish.

[CaptainMarvel]

Looking Good thus far . . . And seeing as how my plan is to build one of these bad-boys from scratch,
I continue to be most interested and inspired by your efforts and progress.


KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK !!!


 

[Tzakiel]

Final marquee and CP art:

These babies went off to the printer gameongrafix. I also requested a B+W full size template for drilling. Yes, Kirby STAYS! My WAF (wife approval factor) was already a 0, and she likes Kirby, so this might get me at least into the "1" range. Besides, there is meaning to the 3 characters in this marquee... I am white (and sort of blond), my wife is of Chinese heritage, and our new baby is.. well.. cute!

The CP I decided to nix the sega astro city and put in the same font/name as marquee for consistency. However, I had to keep the Engrish from the Japanese cab... just love it!

[CaptainMarvel]

PLEASE take some pics of how the printouts are packed and received ... I've been wondering how they look out of the box
(before modifying them for installation)

[Tzakiel]

I'll need to pick up a hinge and screws to install hinge tomorrow. I am thinking a piano hinge would be easiest, under front lip outside control box, or side. I am looking for an easy sturdy install.

Question is a what kind of screws should I use? This is 1/2" mdf. Can I just uses bunch of short wood screws if I drill pilots?

EDIT: hinges came with screws. I'll just use those.

[rCadeGaming]

Tzakiel, this is coming along very nicely.  I really like the influences from Japanese cabinets, which you rarely see around here.  I'm planning an Astro-City style cab.

Your video looks great.  I was going to ask if you're matching native refresh rate along with resolution, but if you're using GroovyMAME's autogeneration you're good to go.

Is the TV not decased though?  It looks you can see the TV's case behind the bezel.  I think that would be worth fixing.  It looks like it's going to be a very classy cabinet overall, and that is kind of a slight  blemish all around the screen.

You might want to look into better audio if you describe the current speakers as "crappy," haha.  It can be argued that good audio is as important as video.  A lot of these games can sound really great with the right setup.  You could either build some custom speakers into the cab or at least get some quality PC speakers.  There's no replacement for cone size.  Little satellites and a subwoofer equals over-emphasized high and lows, with almost no midrange.

I love that you selected Sanwa sticks and buttons and the Astro City layout.  Once you get used to the best you can't go back.  I'm guessing you're using Happs for administrative buttons because you can't get labelled Sanwas?  You can get clear top Seimitsu buttons that you can put paper inserts into to label them whatever you want.  Those would match your main Sanwas a lot better in look and feel.  You can even put the inner plunger of a Seimitsu button into the outer frame of a Sanwa to get it really close.  Same microswitch, same feel.

Also, if you're going to be playing shmups, you might want to check out my JLF mod.  The stock JLF is not so hot for shmups due to its long engage and throw distances.

From your game list I really like your taste in games.  It looks like you're really into fighters, shmups, and 2D platformers, which are my favorite genres (not including other genres that don't work well on a cab).  I laughed when I saw Cho Aniki.

I don't have an organized list of what I'm planning to use from MAME, but I do have a list of console games I want to support on my cab if you're interested in looking at it.  I think you might like some of these:

Code: [Select]

-Nintendo-
Battle Kid: Fortress of Peril
Blaster Master
Bionic Commando
Crisis Force (NTSC-J)
Gargoyle's Quest II
Guardian Legend
Gun-Nac
Little Samson (Seirei Densetsu Lickle)
Mega Man
Mega Man 2
Mega Man 3
Metal Storm
Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
Mr. Gimmick (Gimmick!)
Recca - Summer Carnival '92 (NTSC-J)
Super Turrican
Zanac

-PC Engine-
Blazing Lazers (Gunhed): Caravan '89
Super Star Soldier: Caravan '90
Final Soldier: Caravan '91 (NTSC-J)
Soldier Blade: Caravan '92 (NTSC-J)
-PC Engine CD-
Gate of Thunder
Lords of Thunder
Ginga Fukei Densetsu: Sapphire (NTSC-J)
Spriggan Mark 2 (NTSC-J)
Seirei Senshi Spriggan: Summer Carnival '91 (NTSC-J)
Alzadick: Summer Carnival '92 (NTSC-J)
Nexzr Special: Summer Carnival '93 (NTSC-J)

-Sega Genesis-
Alien Soldier (NTSC-J/PAL)
Comix Zone
Contra: Hard Corps
Eliminate Down (NTSC-J)
Super Fantasy Zone (NTSC-J/PAL)
Gaiares
Gleylancer (NTSC-J)
Gunstar Heroes
Ms. Pac-Man (Tengen)
M.U.S.H.A.
Ranger X
Rocket Knight Adventures
Steel Empire
Target Earth
Thunder Force II
Thunder Force III
Lightening Force (Thunder Force IV)
Vectorman
-Sega CD-
Bari-Arm
Robo Aleste
Silpheed
Soul Star

-Super Nintendo-
Batman Returns
Biometal
Chrono Trigger
Contra III: The Alien Wars
Cybernator
Demon's Crest
Hagane (NTSC-J)
Firepower 2000
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Joe & Mac
Mega Man 7
Rockman & Forte (Mega Man & Bass, NTSC-J)
Mega Man X
Mega Man X2
Mega Man X3
Metal Warriors
Ninja Warriors
R-Type III: The Third Lightning
Space Megaforce (Super Aleste)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time
Super Turrican
Super Turrican 2
U.N. Squadron
Wild Guns

-Sega Saturn-
Assault Suits Leynos II (NTSC-J)
Guardian Heroes
Mega Man 8
Radiant Silvergun (NTSC-J)
Rayman
Thunder Force V (NTSC-J)
Virtua Fighter 2

-Playstation-
Gaia Seed (NTSC-J PSX) $
Gradius Gaiden (NTSC-J)
Guilty Gear
Harmful Park (NTSC-J) $
Mega Man X4
Mega Man X5
Mega Man X6
R-Type Delta
Silhouette Mirage
Zanac X Zanac

-Nintendo 64-
Sin & Punishment (NTSC-J)

-Sega Dreamcast-
Bangai-O
Border Down (NTSC-J)
Capcom vs. SNK
Chaos Field (NTSC-J)
ChuChu Rocket!
Fast Striker
Gunlord
Ikaruga (NTSC-J)
Last Hope - Pink Bullets
NEO XYX
Psyvariar 2 (NTSC-J)
Puyo Puyo Fever (NTSC-J)
Q*bert
Radirgy (NTSC-J)
Shikigami no Shiro II (NTSC-J)
Soul Calibur
Triggerheart Exelica (NTSC-J)
Trizeal (NTSC-J)
Under Defeat (NTSC-J)
Virtua Fighter 3TB
Zero Gunner 2 (NTSC-J)

-Playstation 2-
Contra: Shattered Soldier
Do Don Pachi Daioujou (NTSC-J)
Ibara (NTSC-J)
Gradius V
Guilty Gear X Plus
Guilty Gear XX #Reload
R-Type Final
Silpheed: The Lost Planet
Raiden III
Thunder Force VI (NTSC-J)
Soul Calibur III
Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution

-Nintendo GameCube-
Pac-Man VS. (comes with Pac-Man World 2)
Puyo Pop Fever

-XBox-
Soul Calibur II
Capcom vs. SNK 2

-XBox 360-
Deathsmiles
DoDonPachi Resurrection Deluxe Edition (PAL region-free)
Eschatos (incl. Judgement Silversword + Cardinal Sins) (NTSC-J region-free)
Espgaluda II (NTSC-J region-free)
Mushihime-Sama (NTSC-J region-free)
Mushihime-Sama Futari (NTSC-J region-free)
Raiden IV
-XBLA-
Alien Hominid HD
Deathsmiles II
Mark of the Ninja
Super Meat Boy
Mega Shooter 11

-Nintendo Wii-
Castle of Shikigami III
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
-VC-
Contra Rebirth
Gradius Rebirth
Mega Man 9
Mega Man 10

-Playstation 3-
BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Extend
Blazblue Chrono Phantasma
Rayman Origins
Soul Calibur IV
Soul Calibur V
Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
-PSN-
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus
Hard Corps: Uprising
Marvel vs. Capcom Origins
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Pac-Man Championship Edition DX
Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix
Street Fighter III: Third Strike Online Edition
Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown
I didn't mention any Castlevania games because I prefer those with a controller, but since you're a fan I though I should mention Rondo of Blood for the PCE-CD.  I think that's my favorite in the series (tough call between that and Super IV).

Anyhow, since you're using that transcoder, I think I should also mention that you could be using real hardware for console games.  It will accept RGBS by connecting c sync to the h sync pin.  You can get RGBS or RGBHV (VGA) from the all the consoles on our list without modifying the console itself.  You just need a custom cable that can be made in a few minutes.  The only exceptions to this are NES, PC-E/TG-16, and N64 (need internal RGB mod), Gamecube (cable mod only, but the cable is expensive and its more difficult), and Wii (a couple different ways to handle this one).

You mentioned your love of fighting games.  I love them as well, but when other players aren't around in person, the AI doesn't really cut for me.  Online play is a must.  Consider that with a PS3 or 360 in the cab, you could play all of these online:

Code: [Select]

BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Extend
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus
Marvel vs. Capcom Origins
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
Soul Calibur V
Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition
Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix
Street Fighter III: Third Strike Online Edition
Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown
The last piece of constructive criticism is about the marquee and control panel art.  I mostly agree with Badmouth's comments.  It most reminds me of a mixture of Vewlix and Astro City styling.  Vewlix cabs are nice, but they're slick, thin, and based around a 32" widescreen LCD.  It doesn't make sense to me in relation to your project, which is a thick full bodied cab based around a CRT.  I think you should lean toward cues from the Astro City, or Egret, which you also mentioned.

Also, the sketchy font for "Multicade" doesn't go with the otherwise slick design.  Using the Astro City logo itself doesn't look right either.  While it's closer than a Vewlix, your cab is still too different to literally call it an Astro City.  Maybe you could replace the words "Astro City" with "Multicade," and use the Astro City style for "Multicade" wherever it appears, and change "Aero Dynamic Shape" to sometime representing your design.

I like the use of the developer logos in the marquee.  I would just make sure those developers represent the games you'll be playing.  Most of them look good, but I think maybe there are some others you could add that are more relevant to your game list than Atari.  I think NEO-GEO definitely needs to go though, as it's inconsistent with the rest.  All of the other logos represent developers of arcade games, whereas NEO-GEO is a type of hardware.  You already have SNK there, so I'd just stick with that.  Anyhow though, they look good.  Maybe you could also use that in the control panel to fill up some of the empty space.

As for the characters, I'm not really a fan of them.  Kirby looks totally out of place, as he's not at all arcade related.  Street Fighter characters are more relative, but it's not exclusively a Street Fighter cabinet.  You have a bunch of developers represent there, so to be consistent you either need lots of characters to represent all of them, or none at all.  Just the ones there don't make sense to me.  I would lean toward none at all, because I think what you have going could be really classy, and not having random characters would enhance that.

[Tzakiel]

Tzakiel, this is coming along very nicely.  I really like the influences from Japanese cabinets, which you rarely see around here.  I'm planning an Astro-City style cab.

rCadeGaming - thanks for your feedback and thoughts. I will look over your games list. I do really want to play online - you are probably right that the best way would be actual consoles in the cab. However, I'm not sure how the control panel would interface with several different consoles (I'm sure it would work, but I don't want to be manually switching stuff.  I also don't want to be manually inserting game dvds/carts... I like the idea of everything in a front end.  If I could somehow just play online without needing the consoles, that would be the ultimate, but I don't see it happening.  I do have a hori stick I modded with sanwa parts that I can take upstairs, sit on the couch and play the modern fighters online via PS3.

Re: the TV bezel, it fits pretty well and looks good in person. I may de-case it but not in a hurry since it looks good to me. Always an option though.  I plan to also put plexi over the bezel but not sure yet how best to fit that or if I want to paint the back.

As for the art, first of all, it's with the printer already, so the ship has sailed. I did make some revisions, including some you mentioned. As for kirby, well the marquee does say "and console classics"  In retrospect I think you are probably right that egret or astro city is a better reference than vewlix, because they were CRT cabs, but oh well. At some point, it probably should just be a CRT candy cab repro if that is what I am trying to make. So, for what this is, a catch-all, I still enjoy it and that's what matters. Some day I may re-do artwork. I'd love to make a vewlix repro with a LCD some day too which would be all about modern PC versions of fighters.

[Tzakiel]

Also, I am starting to realize that, if I really want to play Radiant Silvergun, CAVE shooters, etc, I am going to need a core i5, and thus a new MOBO. I really hope that won't undo my windows/groovymame/drivers install.

[rCadeGaming]

I'm not sure how the control panel would interface with several different consoles.

As far as just getting button signals to the consoles, one MC Cthulhu per player will work for most of the consoles on my list.  Genesis, N64, and 360 need hacked PCB's if you want to use them.  Either way, I'd stick with a keyboard encoder for the PC, as that works faster with MAME and Windows than a joystick encoder.

As for switching between everything, that depends how far you want to take it.  I'm working on automating everything with an Arduino.  You will be able to select from more than a dozen consoles from the PC's front-end, and it will tell the Arduino to switch the video, audio, and controls.  It will be controlling a large circuit of solid-state relays.  Then press a menu button to return to the front-end when you're done playing that console.

You could keep it very simple if just switching between the PC and one console.  Just run the button connections through a DB-15 or DB-25 switch box.  Switch it one way and the buttons are connected to your I-PAC.  The other way they're connected to MC Cthulhu's.  Then you just need to switch audio/video.  With some custom cabling you could do run both audio/video and controls through a single DB-25 or DB-37 switch.  It's just simple connect the dots wiring, no fancy electronics.

I also don't want to be manually inserting game dvds/carts...

It's kind of a necessary evil if you must have real hardware or PSN/XBL online play.  You can download entire games from PSN and run them from your hard drive if you want (including games that also came out on disc like UMVC3).  I prefer to have the physical copy for my collection though.

If I could somehow just play online without needing the consoles, that would be the ultimate, but I don't see it happening.

There are some online options on the PC.  GGPO is worth looking into for older games you can't play online anywhere else.  As for anything available on PS3 or 360, that's always the best option.  The larger the user base, the easier it is to find quality matches consistently.

I do have a hori stick I modded with sanwa parts that I can take upstairs, sit on the couch and play the modern fighters online via PS3.

I hear that.  I wouldn't want to play Blazblue on my cab, as it looks much better on the low-lag LCD I have for that kind of thing.  Anything meant for a CRT though (Third Strike online, Guilty Gear online, etc.), I have to be able to play it on my cab.

As for the art, first of all, it's with the printer already, so the ship has sailed.

Yeah... I didn't realize there was a second page here before posting, so I didn't see that.  Dumb*ss mistake, sorry.   

One thing I forgot to mention is that I saw Last Blade 2 on your list.  I love that game (look at my user pic)!  I don't get to play it enough because I'm always putting my time into fighters I can play online on PSN.  I wish they would re-release Last Blade 2.  Not likely though, given how unknown it is and the state of SNK these days.  I think it might be on GGPO, but apparently their site is down and has been for a while.  I don't know what's up with that...

Anyhow, yeah, great game.  Is there a reason you listed the Dreamcast version?  NEO-GEO games run great in MAME, very low lag, and Last Blade 1 and 2 are both there.  Are there some special features on the Dreamcast version or something?

Also, I am starting to realize that, if I really want to play Radiant Silvergun, CAVE shooters, etc, I am going to need a core i5, and thus a new MOBO. I really hope that won't undo my windows/groovymame/drivers install.

Well, you need to stick to XP64, and that is getting harder with new motherboards.  I need to make a post about this in the GroovyMAME section and ask Calamity a few things.

[cookie monster video]

Man this cracked me up.  He doesn't spaz out and eat all the cookies at the end though...

[rCadeGaming]

Oh, one more thing.  You mentioned top mounting your JLF's.  Do you know about the s-plates?

[Tzakiel]

Thanks rcade. I am actually on xp32. No good reason really, just what I had lying around. I'm not sure 64 is worth the trouble for driver issues but I might try it before I go thru the entire config. Just hard with the baby and all to find time for lengthy software marathons.

Yeah, the pc speakers are temporary.

No reason for last blade 2 DC, just want sure if it was better or worse than arcade. Id prefer native res if possible, so if MAME works well, great.

Speaking of native res, any chance that snes, Saturn, or nes emulators, etc can put out native resolutions (without changing windows res manually first)

[rCadeGaming]

I don't think the driver issues with new motherboards are any worse with XP64 vs 32.  64 is needed to get the most out of a faster processor with GroovyMAME though.

As for console emulators, I'm not sure.  I think some can.  Setting up all those different emulators for different consoles can be a mess, and then the lag is questionable.  Unless the emulation is really hacked up, it's generally at least one frame more than real hardware, could be several depending on the emulator.  You might want to look in GroovyUME. 

For me it's another reason to use real hardware for console stuff.  I would use all real arcade PCB's too but they're more expensive and take up more space .  I'm planning on getting a few though.

[rCadeGaming]

Clear Sanwa button plungers are available now that you can put labels inside:

http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/sanwa-obsc-30mm-clear-pushbutton/732-sanwa-obsc-30-crystal.html

[Tzakiel]

Oh, one more thing.  You mentioned top mounting your JLF's.  Do you know about the s-plates?

I saw them, but I wanted a nice high mount and I saw there is a top mount guide here on the forum so I felt more comfortable following that.

[Tzakiel]

I made good progress sanding the rounded corners of the CP to perfection. So the CP blank is done, but still need to drill (waiting for gameongrafix to ship my template), route, and do the t-moulding slot.

My goal this weekend was to glue the bottom and side panels of the box together, and paint those, but I've hit a snag testing butt joints on scrap.

Basically, the coarse thread drywall screws are going into the pilot hole nicely, but when they reach the head of the screw against the mdf, they just turn freely. Maybe my pilot hole is too big - unfortunately I don't have a smaller bit to try. I'm using 1 5/8" screws.





Then I tried countersinking in hopes of the screws going in better. The problem is that the countersink bit only seems to cut so much and then just stops biting, turning in the countersink hole but not doing anything. Thus, the screw isn't flush or inset like I wanted. And it still turns freely. I tried a couple different size countersink bits but all just stop cutting at a certain depth. Argh! Any ideas?

[a1pharm]

I made good progress sanding the rounded corners of the CP to perfection. So the CP blank is done, but still need to drill (waiting for gameongrafix to ship my template), route, and do the t-moulding slot.

My goal this weekend was to glue the bottom and side panels of the box together, and paint those, but I've hit a snag testing butt joints on scrap.

Basically, the coarse thread drywall screws are going into the pilot hole nicely, but when they reach the head of the screw against the mdf, they just turn freely. Maybe my pilot hole is too big - unfortunately I don't have a smaller bit to try. I'm using 1 5/8" screws.





Then I tried countersinking in hopes of the screws going in better. The problem is that the countersink bit only seems to cut so much and then just stops biting, turning in the countersink hole but not doing anything. Thus, the screw isn't flush or inset like I wanted. And it still turns freely. I tried a couple different size countersink bits but all just stop cutting at a certain depth. Argh! Any ideas?

To fix the "spinning" drill a smaller pilot hole.

To fix the countersink problem: apply more pressure, and oscillate the drill as you are pressing.  Don't be surprised if you are leaning on the drill with almost all of your weight as you oscillate the drill.

[Tzakiel]

Some updates:

I was able to get a smaller drill bit and now the drywall screws are grabbing nicely into the MDF. I also managed to get some deeper countersinks, thanks to a1pharm for ensuring I wasn't crazy and just needed to keep at it.



I drilled a couple of button holes in the left side panel using my dewalt hole saw. In the pic you can't really tell, but this burned the SH*T out of the MDF. Tons of black dust came up and smoke... lots of bad fumes. The insides of the holes are toast. Am I doing it wrong? These came out OK enough, but for my control panel drilling I don't want to fry it so badly.  I simply installed the hole saw into the arbor, and went at it with a medium speed power drill. Not sure what caused such horrible burning.



I cut the slot for my t-molding which was easier than I expected. It's offset a bit to account for plexi on top. Overall I really like the router... good tool.



And I tested out two types of black spray paint. Flat and satin. The flat is too flat and the satin is too glossy... in the pic it appears the flat is close, but in reality it has no shine at all and really doesn't match too well when the light hits it.

(test piece of MDF is the skinny one with flat on top and satin below, UAII laminate is on right)



Next steps:

• Finish all pilot holes and sinks, screw and glue box together, bondo and sand over screws. Paint.
• Receive artwork and template in mail (shouldn't be more than a day or two, already shipped to my surprise!
• Drill CP holes for buttons, top mount JLFs
• Buy a piece of 1/8" plexi (seems like a size my Lowes doesn't have) and figure out how to cut holes in it that match CP
• Lay down artwork, plexi, wire everything up!
• Install XP 64, get hyperspin working right (I dread this), and everything configured

[PL1]

I drilled a couple of button holes in the left side panel using my dewalt hole saw. In the pic you can't really tell, but this burned the SH*T out of the MDF. Tons of black dust came up and smoke... lots of bad fumes. The insides of the holes are toast. Am I doing it wrong? These came out OK enough, but for my control panel drilling I don't want to fry it so badly.  I simply installed the hole saw into the arbor, and went at it with a medium speed power drill. Not sure what caused such horrible burning.

The burning was caused by the same things that make bow-and-drill firestarting work -- friction/heat + fine wood dust + compression.

To keep from burning it up, you need to back out periodically to clear out the dust from the cut and cool the blade.

Better yet, get a Freud FB-008 1-1/8-Inch by 3/8-Inch Shank Forstner Drill Bit or similar.

It's a truly worthwhile investment IMHO.


Scott

[Tzakiel]

Sorry, messed this post up... disregard

[Tzakiel]

The burning was caused by the same things that make bow-and-drill firestarting work -- friction/heat + fine wood dust + compression.

Except that usually doesn't work except in the movies, where as this hole saw fire method worked quite well 

More progress to post soon....

[rCadeGaming]

Yup, with those hole saws, there's nowhere for the material you're removing to go so it starts to build up in the teeth.  They fill up pretty quickly to the point where it's mostly wood on wood at the point of contact, hence the burning through instead of cutting.  A forstner bit on the other hand provides a path for the material you're removing to be drawn out.

PL1, tell me this though.  A benefit of a hole saw for me is that I can cut through the plexiglass and the wood underneath at the same time, ensuring that my button holes are in the same place on both pieces.  How is a forstner bit on plexi?

[a1pharm]

... it's mostly wood on wood at the point of contact, hence the burning ...

I think there is a joke somewhere in that line, but I can't come up with one right now...

[Tzakiel]

PL1, tell me this though.  A benefit of a hole saw for me is that I can cut through the plexiglass and the wood underneath at the same time, ensuring that my button holes are in the same place on both pieces.  How is a forstner bit on plexi?

Sh*t. I started drilling my cp holes today and forgot this. I haven't bought plexi yet. I only did 4 holes... Should I wait to buy plexi before doing the rest? 

[rCadeGaming]

... it's mostly wood on wood at the point of contact, hence the burning ...

I think there is a joke somewhere in that line, but I can't come up with one right now...

Well, Tzakiel is talking about MDF, I think you're thinking of hardwood...  Also, this is an immediate burn, it doesn't take until the next morning.

Sh*t. I started drilling my cp holes today and forgot this. I haven't bought plexi yet. I only did 4 holes... Should I wait to buy plexi before doing the rest?

Yeah, probably.

[a1pharm]

PL1, tell me this though.  A benefit of a hole saw for me is that I can cut through the plexiglass and the wood underneath at the same time, ensuring that my button holes are in the same place on both pieces.  How is a forstner bit on plexi?

Sh*t. I started drilling my cp holes today and forgot this. I haven't bought plexi yet. I only did 4 holes... Should I wait to buy plexi before doing the rest?

Finish your CP hole drilling, and buy your plexi later.  Clamp the plexi over the drilled CP.  Drill a 1/2" hole using a hole saw in about the middle of each hole.  Use a flush trim router bit and have it enter through the plexi in that 1/2" hole you just drilled, and use it to cut flush holes in the plexi.  Make sure you don't go too slow and burn the plexi.

If you use a hole saw, you may melt the plexi, and it will look like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  Trust me on the method I outlined above. If it doesn't make sense, let me know.

[PL1]

The burning was caused by the same things that make bow-and-drill firestarting work -- friction/heat + fine wood dust + compression.

Except that usually doesn't work except in the movies, where as this hole saw fire method worked quite well 

Getting smoke with bow and drill is easy, getting a fire is harder -- the movies don't show the fine points that make it work.   

How is a forstner bit on plexi?

I don't do plexi over my CPs so I'll defer to Selfie on this one.

Forstner Bits and hole saws are suitable also

Scott

[rCadeGaming]

If you use a hole saw, you may melt the plexi, and it will look like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

This only happens if you go too fast.  If you take it slow and regularly clear the teeth, you'll get nice results.

[rCadeGaming]

Also, a drill press makes things a lot easier (provided you have one with enough space to fit your panel under).

[Tzakiel]

Finish your CP hole drilling, and buy your plexi later.  Clamp the plexi over the drilled CP.  Drill a 1/2" hole using a hole saw in about the middle of each hole.  Use a flush trim router bit and have it enter through the plexi in that 1/2" hole you just drilled, and use it to cut flush holes in the plexi.  Make sure you don't go too slow and burn the plexi.

Hm.. sounds reasonable... since I have the tools and bit for this I can give it a try. Honestly it makes me a bit nervous drilling both at the same time anyway, given how badly the hole saw is burning the MDF.  I am backing it out and clearing it but it burns almost instantly.

In fact, the process of drilling the holes with the saw in general is frustrating... What happens is I clamp the CP down over my table (with a hole in it to clear the saw where I am drilling), then I drill the hole, backing out 3-4 times to let it cool... then it punches through and the MDF plugs the saw. So I have to unplug the drill, remove the hole saw, remove the arbor, pry out the chunk of MDF with a screwdriver, clear the teeth, re-assemble the arbor, reinstall the bit in the drill, and then move my CP so the next hole is over my table's hole, clamp, and drill again. And I have a lot of holes left!

Also starting to get worried about my screw in button locations a bit... lining up the orange screw rings over my printed templates, there are places where they seem like they will be too close to each other to fit. Which is odd since I used the slagcoin template and printed at 100% size. But I guess we will find out.

[a1pharm]

If you use the method I proposed, don't press too hard on the plexi when drilling the "pilot" holes, or you may crack the sheet.  You may want to just mark with a marker where on the plexi you want the pilot holes, then put the plexi over a piece of scrap wood, and then drill the pilots.  After the pilots are drilled, then clamp it to the CP, and use the flush trim bit.

Also: yeah using a hole saw for buttons sucks.  They sell 1 1/8" spade bits at ACE Hardware for less than $5.

[rCadeGaming]

Honestly it makes me a bit nervous drilling both at the same time anyway, given how badly the hole saw is burning the MDF.  I am backing it out and clearing it but it burns almost instantly...  I drill the hole, backing out 3-4 times to let it cool...

It shouldn't be that bad.  The teeth on your hole saw might be worn.

...then it punches through and the MDF plugs the saw. So I have to unplug the drill, remove the hole saw, remove the arbor, pry out the chunk of MDF with a screwdriver, clear the teeth, re-assemble the arbor, reinstall the bit in the drill...

Doesn't the hole saw have a slot in the side of it for getting the plugs of material out?  I can clear mine with a screwdriver in about two seconds.  I don't even have to take the bit out of the drill, much less the saw off the arbor.

Also starting to get worried about my screw in button locations a bit... lining up the orange screw rings over my printed templates, there are places where they seem like they will be too close to each other to fit. Which is odd since I used the slagcoin template and printed at 100% size. But I guess we will find out.

I've used the Astro City player one template from Slagcoin on several control panels using Sanwa screw-in buttons and didn't have any problems.  You'll find that the buttons have a little wiggle room in a 1-1/8 hole.

Also: yeah using a hole saw for buttons sucks.  They sell 1 1/8" spade bits at ACE Hardware for less than $5.

To each his own.  With a good sharp hole saw I'm able to do it all in one step without any trouble.  No need to move to router.

Spade bits aren't always the best option on plexiglass.

[Tzakiel]

rCade: actually the hole saw is new. It does have slots but the mdf circle doesn't budge until I take arbor out and jam a screwdriver in the pilot hole and remove piece by piece. Maybe just a crappy saw. It's a dewalt 1 3/16" (marked 30mm)

Good to know about wiggle room, that's probably right.

[rCadeGaming]

It could be the saw.  Are the teeth offset like this:



Or are they just flush with the saw?

I don't know, I'm just sharing my experience with the matter, but I'm not saying not to try the other methods recommended here.  We are two different people using different tools in different workshops.  Find what works best for you.

[Tzakiel]

They are offset like the first pic.

And I just realized a huge update from this morning somehow didn't post. Will have to repost in a bit.

[Tzakiel]

Well, as I said, a big update somehow got lost here and that's frustrating.

Long story short, I finished screwing and gluing the box together. Bondo over the screw heads, then sanded what i thought was very smooth.



Then I sprayed black, using several thin coats:



It looks good from the right angles, but when you take a closer look the bondo is VERY visible under the paint. I wish I had just not used it... looks terrible.  A shame because I have worked with spackle and repairing drywall in the past, and didn't think it would show since I tried to feather and sand it. Apparently not nearly enough.



Is this fixable? Should I block sand it after the spraypaint is fully dried?  Or is it too late for that?


Also, pics of the artwork was requested. Here they are:



Everything is very high quality and the paper is more like plastic, very nice. The marquee lights up extremely vibrant when held up to light.



For some reason he sent me an adhesive back for the CP art despite ordering the no adhesive option. I tried laying it flat, thinking I could just use it anyway and not remove the backing, but the backing has buckled and made a bubble as a result, so I hesitate to do that. I've contacted him for a fix/replacement but haven't heard back yet.



This is the template option I chose which is also printed on nice plastic-like paper.



Nice high quality print all around... my files were 260dpi rather than the 300dpi gold standard, and still looks amazing. Dunno if I could tell the difference at a higher dpi.

My take on Gameongrafix

• Print quality: Very high
• Paper quality: Thick and durable, good stuff. marquee lights up brightly.
• Order process time: Faster than advertised, shipped within a few business days
• Communication: A bit slow. Replies seem to take a couple of days. Also when I asked about hole trimming before the order he said he could do it and they do it by hand... so I replied and said okay, please cut the holes in my order. Then it arrived with the holes not cut. Not a big deal but I didn't get the sense that communication was a strong suit. The web site also says customers may not call. Fair enough... I just hope I can get the right print without adhesive as I ordered. I'll be sure to update here if (as expected) things go right.