Let's make a "Well-Designed Cabinet Guide"

[Vigo]

So, as many of you know, the Crapmame thread bubbled up again, prompting us to ask what we want to accomplish as a community here. I suggested the idea of a member created "Well-Designed Cabinet Guide" The idea received some good reception, so I will move forward with it.

The guide will address the finer points of building. While sources like the Project Arcade Book or the Wiki are great at laying out things like material options, this guide will rather offer expert opinions from members here to help a builder ultimately make the best choice for their needs. It will also be a great way to curb the threads that seem to pop up over and over again. Here is my hypothetical example from the Crapmame thread:

Should I remove my PC from the case before putting it in my cab?

Malenko: "I personally prefer to keep my computers in their case. Overheating has never been an issue, and keeping your computer in it's case is a great way to make it easy to pull out when you need to work on the computer or replace it completely"

brad808: "I personally make an open mount for my motherboards. It ensures that every board gets adequate airflow and is much easier to secure to a cabinet. You either end up ruining a PC case bolting it to a cab, or you have loose hardware flopping around inside. Having your computer open mounted also gives a professional look on the inside if you plan on showing off the inner workings."

So here is the plan. I will reserve a post below and use it to cover the current agenda on the guide.  The first thing we need are topics to cover and some format/method ideas. Feel free to brainstorm the heck out of this one. In the end, it would be great to have a working document that we can all reference to. I will take any and all ideas at this point to improve on the concept. The only thing I want to axe at this point is answering questions. Let's not dive into typing up answers until we have a good framework laid out.

[Vigo]

Current Agenda:

Come up with topics to cover:
The working pool of questions so far:

• Should I remove my PC from the case before putting it in my cab?
• Should I arch my buttons or keep them straight?
• Should I make a four player cabinet?
• Specialized controls - do I need them?
• What order should I follow to design my cab? (e.g. first determine games you want to play, then move on control panel choices, etc.)
• Control Panel size?
• Admin buttons - do I need them and why/why not?
• Top mounting vs bottom mounting joysticks
• 4 Player CP joystick angling
• How many buttons?
• Speed of PC
• Techniques to create a good looking marquee
• furring strip practices
• Wiring Methods
• MDF Methods
• Types of Cab to build?
• Keep all games on cab?
• CRT Vs LCD?
• Use Mock up/ CAD Software?
• Widescreen acceptable?
• Build a do-all cabinet, or build a limited cab?
• Control Panel Artwork? (Any specific design choices to cover?)
• Should I add an instruction card?
• Should I add molex connectors to my wiring
• Solder or Quick Disconnects?

Any ideas on an official title for this guide?
"Well-Designed Cabinet Guide"
"Best Practices"
"Preferred Practices"
"Arcade Cabinet Building: Best Practices"



Format ideas?
Is just posting as a PDF good enough?
Should we limit the number of responses to include?
Have an "editor"?
Other ideas, concerns, etc.....
Should go as far as make help make a step by step/flow chart method for selecting your cabinet?
Include a section of "Pro Tips"?
Link to example projects?[/list]

[Vigo]

Reserved for completed work.

[shponglefan]

Great idea!

Dunno if I'm an "expert" in the subject, but I do have some opinions on art design particularly for CPs.  I was thinking of starting a "CP art tips" thread in the artwork forum.  Maybe could cross post that here.

Maybe some discussion about joysticks.  Top mounting vs bottom mounting, angling vs straight-on, etc?

[PL1]

Interesting idea.

Will this guide include processes/sequences of steps for designing a cab?

Example:

I'd start with the list of games you want to play, number of players, and the computer you want to use.

That will lead you to what emulators and other software like front ends (MaLa, Hyperspin, etc.) you want/need.

From there, you can figure out what kind of controls (Joysticks, player buttons, admin buttons, spinner, trackball, gamepads?) you'll need to work with the games and emulators you want.

That leads to chosing the right encoder(s).

Browse for artwork/themes/design cues to use in the following steps.

Arrange the controls on the control panel. (CP) -- Cardboard test panel highly encouraged.

Select a monitor.

Design the rest of the cab around the monitor and CP.

Scott

[BadMouth]

How many buttons? - been debated endlessly, but you can state the facts that no game playable in MAME that uses a joystick requires more than 6 buttons and also that no 4 player game that is playable in MAME requires more than 4 (Guilty Gear Isuka which is playable in Demul requires 5).  Maybe mention that the only games in MAME that require 4 are the two Dungeons and Dragons games, so you only need 3 if you don't plan to play those.  Explain the 7th button for the MK run button and Neo Geo layout. 

Also, only a few games that used a 4-way joystick required more than two buttons.  So if you're building a dedicated 4-way cab, there isn't much point in having more.  MAME can be configured so that holding both posts the third button for the few games that had a third button.  (I think it was somewhere around 4 or 6 games, mostly unpopular ones)

4 Player CP joystick angling - yeah go there.  Stick to the fact that nearly all commercially produced 4 player games didn't have the P3 and 4 joysticks angled, with a few exceptions.  Feel free to build what you want, but the industry standard is to keep them parallel to the monitor.

Avoid shadows in the corner of your marquee area by not extending your bracing into it

I'd avoid getting bogged down in "what PC do I need?" for now.

[yotsuya]

I'm curious how disputes will be handled.

[mcseforsale]

Armoring MDF with watered down glue to prevent dents under your t-molding.

Use more expensive 1x2 pine instead of furring strips.

No visible screws outside the case.

Good wiring tips.  I.E.  Make it neat or it makes an otherwise beautiful cab look hack.

POCKET HINGES!!!!!!!!!!!! 

AJ

[mcseforsale]

Also, tips from those of us who don't have extensive tool collections or a table saw.

Saw boards, straight edges, etc.

AJ

[PL1]

I'm curious how disputes will be handled.

Maybe by linking to another thread with a poll? 


Scott

[Fursphere]

The problem with CrapMAME is that its almost purely based on personal opinion. 

Now, I happen to agree with with 99% of the things said, the people that built the "CrapMAME" systems obviously have a different opinion (or just said screw it).

My point here, is almost everything here is SUBJECTIVE, not OBJECTIVE. 

What's "playable" to one person is different from another.  Adhearing to industry "standards" is a good starting point, with using commercial designs as a baseline....   this still comes down to a popularity contest. 

[Unstupid]

Interesting idea.

Will this guide include processes/sequences of steps for designing a cab?

Example:

I'd start with the list of games you want to play, number of players, and the computer you want to use.

That will lead you to what emulators and other software like front ends (MaLa, Hyperspin, etc.) you want/need.

From there, you can figure out what kind of controls (Joysticks, player buttons, admin buttons, spinner, trackball, gamepads?) you'll need to work with the games and emulators you want.

That leads to chosing the right encoder(s).

Browse for artwork/themes/design cues to use in the following steps.

Arrange the controls on the control panel. (CP) -- Cardboard test panel highly encouraged.

Select a monitor.

Design the rest of the cab around the monitor and CP.

Scott

I don't think you can start with "What games do you want to play?".  That is how a lot of crapmame/frankenpanels are started because the answer a lot of times is "All of them!".  The first question should be "What do I want it to look like?".  Next question should be "Would it look like ass if I add <insert peripheral>?".  Keep repeating the that question until the only answer you get is "Yes!".  There.. Now you have your control panel and you can figure out what games you can play, which will determine what kind of computer you need.

[mcseforsale]

What about good examples of types of cabs with links to build threads.  I.E.  slimline, link to Woody and any well executed clones (by vote); dynamo, link to The Blue Pill (hehehe); articulated cabs, link to Maximus' monster, etc.

We could break up the CP database like that, too.

AJ

[Vigo]

Some good ideas in here already.  I can see hot issues already coming up here. As long as we can keep the enthusiasm bundled up into positive thinking machine, this is gonna be good.

I'm curious how disputes will be handled.

That is a sticky one. I really want this to be open to anyone to add to, but at the same time, I it will be best if it is filled mostly with comments from people who have earned respect around here for their work and solid advice. Well, maybe if we just have an "editor" oversee what gets in and what doesn't. 

The problem with CrapMAME is that its almost purely based on personal opinion. 

Now, I happen to agree with with 99% of the things said, the people that built the "CrapMAME" systems obviously have a different opinion (or just said screw it).

My point here, is almost everything here is SUBJECTIVE, not OBJECTIVE. 

What's "playable" to one person is different from another.  Adhearing to industry "standards" is a good starting point, with using commercial designs as a baseline....   this still comes down to a popularity contest. 

Right, and this is exactly what I am hoping we can channel, the more subjective stuff. I am hoping we can, rather than just dictate what way is best, give a variety of different yet valid opinions. Think of it as a "point and counterpoint" of the BYOAC world. If we give 3 different opinions on how to tackle an issue, then the reader can see 3 different options to go with, and hopefully at the same time not take the 4th option that doesn't work so well.

[Vigo]

I agree we can do something with type a cab and amount of controls for a persons needs. As long it is not herding people to only build one thing, it would be great to hear some opinions from people who have built a variety of projects and what works best for them for an all around machine.

What about good examples of types of cabs with links to build threads.  I.E.  slimline, link to Woody and any well executed clones (by vote); dynamo, link to The Blue Pill (hehehe); articulated cabs, link to Maximus' monster, etc.

We could break up the CP database like that, too.

AJ

This idea has some good merit as well. It might be info that is available in other forms here (UCA, Hall of Fame, etc) but it would be nice to see good examples based on what kind of cab is trying to be accomplished.

[PL1]

I don't think you can start with "What games do you want to play?".  That is how a lot of crapmame/frankenpanels are started because the answer a lot of times is "All of them!".  The first question should be "What do I want it to look like?".  Next question should be "Would it look like ass if I add <insert peripheral>?".  Keep repeating the that question until the only answer you get is "Yes!".  There.. Now you have your control panel and you can figure out what games you can play, which will determine what kind of computer you need.

Point taken.

Trying to say "all" to the game list question is obviously guaranteed fail, but a specific list of "can't live without" games can be used to ensure that the needed controls for those games are included.

My earlier example didn't include the parts where you pare down the game list and/or controls as needed.

Sounds like we have 2 design approaches so far:
1. Cab shape/size based
2. Game list based


Scott

[epetti]

Seems like having it termed as "Best Practices" helps with subjectivity. If a frankenpanel/crapMAME system works for you, who are we to judge, and there's always good reasons to break the rules for specific cases.  If there isn't agreement on a particular practice, then maybe that area either does not have a best practice or has multiple.  There isn't one "right answer" to any of these topics, but there are guidelines and tried and true principals.

Isn't the wiki kind of the better place for this kind of info, though? Seems like you want a little more hierarchical and editable web interface than a forum for standards.

[jdbailey1206]

Can't we just make a Crap Mame website so people know NOT what to do?   

[PL1]

"Best Practices"

Maybe "Preferred Practices"?

Isn't the wiki kind of the better place for this kind of info, though?

  No comment. 


Scott

[BadMouth]

Call it "Arcade Cabinet Building: Vigo's Best Practices" and roll with it instead of getting bogged down in debate with vocal minorities.
 

[rpgposer]

I am a noob, and probably don't have the history here to post, but I will anyway.
Perhaps explain the differences between LCD/LED and CRT displays.
Something like:

• CRT gives the best gameplay experience, but are aging and heavy.
• LED/LCD have noticeable lag and can only approximate the look of a CRT (scanlines) via software (mame hlsl) or hardware (SLG).

[mcseforsale]

I've never noticed lag on any LCDs.

AJ

I am a noob, and probably don't have the history here to post, but I will anyway.
Perhaps explain the differences between LCD/LED and CRT displays.
Something like:

• CRT gives the best gameplay experience, but are aging and heavy.
• LED/LCD have noticeable lag and can only approximate the look of a CRT (scanlines) via software (mame hlsl) or hardware (SLG).

[Fursphere]

Can't we just make a Crap Mame website so people know NOT what to do?   

http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/

??

[shponglefan]

LED/LCD have noticeable lag

Some TVs do.  Monitors, not so much.

[eds1275]

Acceptable width of your control panel if it sticks out past the edges of your machine. I would say 25% (1/8 of the cabinet width per side) is about as far as I'd go - but that's just my opinion. I prefer when the control panel is between the edges of the machine.

[DaveMMR]

I like the idea but this thread is devolving into "answers" rather than topic suggestions.

And I'm all for input from anyone but have the final presentation edited by a handful of veterans to present straightforward advice instead of a mile-long wall of text which go off on tangents. It doesn't have to be the "bible" of building or anything; you can still disagree. But it's nice to have an FAQ of sorts to handle the more reoccurring themes that's not burying information behind personal debates and the occasional outburst.

Some topical suggestions that I (somewhat jokingly) presented in the CrapMAME thread - now re-edited for more seriousness:

• Should I make a four player cabinet?
• Specialized controls - do I need them?
• Panel size?
• Admin buttons - do I need them and why/why not?

[yotsuya]

I'm in agreement with Dave on the approach. It should answer questions and provide insight but not come across as the end all-be all.

[Monkeyvoodoo]

What about information on mock up software? May help if new people knew they could see their idea as finished before construction, maybe avoid major design issues before any wood is cut?

[Vigo]

Great suggestions so far! I updated the Current Agenda to reflect what I saw so far surface as ideas.

Right now I am not sure if we should dip into recommending what type of cabinet for people to build, but it seems to be mentioned above enough that I feel we can keep the door open on the subject right now and hope it doesn't get messy. I read in the paper today about a website that used a web based flow chart to pick your ideal breed of dog for your needs. Maybe we could build something like that for picking a cab, just make it in powerpoint.

I like the idea but this thread is devolving into "answers" rather than topic suggestions.

And I'm all for input from anyone but have the final presentation edited by a handful of veterans to present straightforward advice instead of a mile-long wall of text which go off on tangents. It doesn't have to be the "bible" of building or anything; you can still disagree. But it's nice to have an FAQ of sorts to handle the more reoccurring themes that's not burying information behind personal debates and the occasional outburst.

I agree as well. This is pretty much my original scope on the project, so I think you and a few others really get what this is trying to achieve. However, I am keeping other's ideas open on this still.

You are right, we need more questions/topics right now and not so much the answers. (Although, I have found the some of the answers listed have really good questions behind them.)

It looks like I could break the document up into a few sections:
Control Panel (Big topic here)
Software/Emulation
Monitors
Woodworking
Wiring/Electrical
Cabinet Style?

[Xiaou2]

I don't think you can start with "What games do you want to play?".  That is how a lot of crapmame/frankenpanels are started because the answer a lot of times is "All of them!".  The first question should be "What do I want it to look like?".  Next question should be "Would it look like ass if I add <insert peripheral>?".  Keep repeating the that question until the only answer you get is "Yes!".  There.. Now you have your control panel and you can figure out what games you can play, which will determine what kind of computer you need.

 Sorry, but I completely Disagree.

 The main priority for me, was playing games I loved in the correct manor.   Thats WAY more important than looks.
Furthermore.. the actual controllers themselves are important...  as I soon found out, that playing Robotron with anything other than real Wico 8way leaf switches.. was so horrible, that I simply couldnt enjoy one of my alltime favorites.

 YOUR OPINION is that you place your Value on looks more than enjoying certain games... and OR you have money and space to built multiple machines, and or deal with swapping stuff around mid-game (which is almost like the old Laserdisc movies, where at some point, you had to flip the disc over, and or swap to another disc, to see the rest of the movie... ).

 But Opinion shouldnt be biased.  Thats like a Karate instructor preaching how everyone should study Karate.  Or how a Priest would tell you that you should give 90% of your wealth to the church.   Its up to the Person reading to get unbiased information, and decide what his or her Priorities are, and then accept the kinds of challenges that will result from those decisions.


 Control panels that have multiple controls can be elegant, functional, and fun.  And they can simply be fun.. and look like hell.. but usually the user who built them doesnt care about that now do they?  Its the outside viewers who seem to be at arms with that.   

 Anyways...  multiple controls and looks are not so much the issue In my opinion.   The number one issue is functionality and control.   That mostly goes for multiple controller layouts... but it can also even be an issue with standard layouts.  (such as the curved button issues,  angled sticks,  poor monitor angles, and poor control panel angles... )

 For example...

 
 If you have a 4way thats very deep in the panel, so you have to reach quite far to use it (which causes fatigue quickly) ... meanwhile, your arms are resting on top of many various buttons and other controllers. (discomfort)   

 There is a very simple fix to this... which is to mount the 4way above and slightly to the left of the typical happs stick.  By doing this, the reach is close, comfortable, and your arms dont have to rest on top of any other controls.  As well as being able to use the same button set as always.


 What you are essentially trying to do, is write another book... and  Or 'fix'  /  'update'   saints outdated information on the site.

[Xiaou2]

 I also dont like the Tone of this already:

 

SHOULD I make a 4player?
 Do I NEED special controllers?

 Thats pretty much pounding out YOUR opinion down from the outset.   


 When it should be something like:

 1) How many players do you want?

   a)  2 player layouts
       
      - blah blah info
      - blah blah info

   b)  4 Player layouts

     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info

[Vigo]

I also dont like the Tone of this already:

Tone? There is no tone. Nothing is written yet. I was jotting down and pasting quotes from other posts. I did it in about 1 minute. The only tone I noticed so far was you barging in here to crap all over some constructive thinking.

But Opinion shouldnt be biased.  Thats like a Karate instructor preaching how everyone should study Karate.  Or how a Priest would tell you that you should give 90% of your wealth to the church.   Its up to the Person reading to get unbiased information, and decide what his or her Priorities are, and then accept the kinds of challenges that will result from those decisions.

That makes no sense, opinions ARE biases. People come to BYOAC asking for opinions all the time. This guide is meant to give a variety of different opinions from different viewpoints so it is not telling people what to do from one point of view. It is a compilation of opinions that are backed by experience. I am going to tell you right now that every point covered in this guide will have at least two differing points of view or it won't be included. You can feel free to add your point of view to it as well, if you will try to offer up well thought out, positive and persuasive statement to your opinion.

What you are essentially trying to do, is write another book... and  Or 'fix'  /  'update'   saints outdated information on the site.

No, I am trying to cover things that in essence can't be covered in the book. The book wonderfully lays out all your options, and yes it walks you through a build and gives some great example projects. Outside of that realm, there are new builders seeing options, but not knowing why they would want to go with one or the other simply because they have not gone down the path before. Hearing a variety of opinions and solutions to a design choice it a great way for a lot of people to educate themselves and learn. This sort of thing is in the threads day in and day out and there is a reason people keep asking these opinions from veteran members.

To put it in light of an example of a simple thing like wood choice. I bring this topic up because I debated over wood choice for a weeks before my first build. Saint's book will tell you your choices of wood and everything you need to read to grasp all the facts. It will tell you the pros and cons of MDF or plywood and every other viable wood option. Instead with this guide, a reader can hear a statement from Le Chuck as to why he prefers to use MDF, and at the same time hear from Kahlid as to why he loves working with plywood, etc and so on. A reader can find an opinion they can relate to and make an easier choice. A person who never build a cab is not always going to know exactly how to weigh the facts without some personal reference in there.

  When it should be something like:

 1) How many players do you want?

   a)  2 player layouts
       
      - blah blah info
      - blah blah info

   b)  4 Player layouts

     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info
     - blah blah info

No, that is not how it should be, what you are doing there is laying out facts and info on the various options. That is exactly what the book does. I think it is ironic that you bash this effort because you think it is duplicating the book, but then tell me you don't like the tone because it is not like the book. 

Control panels that have multiple controls can be elegant, functional, and fun.  And they can simply be fun.. and look like hell.. but usually the user who built them doesnt care about that now do they?  Its the outside viewers who seem to be at arms with that.   

If they didn't care about their design, then they wouldn't be reading a design guide, would they.....  This guide will not offend those who don't care about design.


Listen, I explained what this project is and am reassuring you that it is specifically designed to NOT pound an opinion on people because it will always feature different opinions. Hopefully you will be willing to openly add to this project rather than try to tear it down.

[Xiaou2]

Tone? There is no tone. Nothing is written yet. I was jotting down and pasting quotes from other posts.

 If I say:   "Do I Really need special controllers?"

     that can be read as: 

 "its not really standard practice, and its only a fringe thing that most of us dont agree with"

      English is like that.  The way in which you word things can change the meaning a lot..  as you can infer different attitudes and ideas from the WAY in which things are said / words arranged.

 If I instead said:

      What kinds of Controllers will I need?   or   What kinds of controllers are there?

 It no longer is aimed at any specific initial opinion or bias.  The reader will look at the list of controllers, see which games used what + why...  see the Pros and Cons of each controller in great detail..  such as mounting depths, control panel space, and multipurpose use.. as well as Cost, to see if its even possible to budget it.

barging in here to crap all over some constructive thinking

 What?!  I AM being constructive.   You are the one taking offense somehow, probably because of the english misunderstandings.

That makes no sense, opinions ARE biases.

 What I meant, was that the initial questions / topics.. should not be biased from the start.  I LIKE and AGREE that multiple opinions should be added.

Instead with this guide, a reader can hear a statement from Le Chuck as to why he prefers to use MDF, and at the same time hear from Kahlid as to why he loves working with plywood, etc and so on. A reader can find an opinion they can relate to and make an easier choice. A person who never build a cab is not always going to know exactly how to weigh the facts without some personal reference in there.

 What I meant, was by looking at your Massive topic list..  it would basically be like trying to update the entire site.

   I think you need both factual data with opinions.. because either without or.. and theres confusion and misinterpretation.
Ive not read Saints book, because Ive not needed it, so I cant comment about his style of writing. Possibly he had to trim data, so keep the book within a certain page spec.

 I think its very difficult to simply pick and pull some limited opinions together, without the supporting data.  For example, if nobody knows what a leaf switch is..  then how will they know whether to choose that over micros?   What you get down to that level.. its basically re-writing every aspect of the site.   As by now... theres so many new vendor options, let alone the real controllers.  It could be very confusing to someone new to all of these controllers.

I think it is ironic that you bash this effort because you think it is duplicating the book,

Never said nor inferred that at all.  Nor was I bashing anything.  I was stating that I didnt care for the initial tone, as stated above.   And, I have nothing against anyone updating info or writing a book.  Thats their business.  And its pretty standard practice actually.

No, that is not how it should be,

 The 'blah blahs', were meant to symbolize both technical data, AND forum Opinions.  The only change, was to the way in which the initial information was inferred.

 Now that I think it,  I think what you are going for is some sort of glorified quick FAQ.
At least... thats the way you are making it sound now.   Just that IMO, I dont think design it so simple as to be a few Faq lines.

 

If they didn't care about their design

 Umm, Where did I say they didnt care about their Designs???

 I said, that SOME people prefer good CONTROL, over LOOKS.  Design isnt merely about Looks.  Design has elements in every aspect, from:  mechanics, functionality, comfort, artistry, structural integrity, ease of use, Safety, ease of movement, space constraints, repair ease, cooling, electronics, lighting, sound, component choices, costs, and much more...

rather than try to tear it down.

 Im not one to tear things down (except bad attitudes and abuses...    ).  I dont make sites like crapmame.   I always offer constructive opinion and useful, and helpful information, whenever I can.  I just wanted to make sure things were starting off on the right foot, with a good solid foundation, of zero bias.   Again, it seems that this is merely an english language misunderstanding.

[Vigo]

Sorry, I'm not gonna bother responding to that. I made it clear I am taking in new ideas right now, not arguing over the ideas given. I'll take note of your comments above, but ask that you don't sit and turn this thread into an argument. We can hash out details of what belongs in this later. Thanks.

[jdbailey1206]

Can't we just make a Crap Mame website so people know NOT what to do?   

http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/

??

Just being sarcastic my friend.   

And to anyone new reading this post: Vigo started this thread so we would have a clean slate.  He is trying to avoid what happened over here.

[Le Chuck]

I think you're well on your way to a good topic list.  Once you open it up for opinions I'd like to contribute.

Topics:

CP Composition:  So you've picked your controls, here are some things to consider when decorating your CP
Theme integrity:  Picking a theme, tying it all together, things that will stick out like a sore thumb
Printing media:  Do I need to spring for high-end vinyl?  What are some resources for printing likely local to me?
Oops I made a mistake:  Bondo - It's a miracle material.  Spackle, Woodfiller, dried toothpaste, hot glue, and composite materials.

[DaveMMR]

Tone? There is no tone. Nothing is written yet. I was jotting down and pasting quotes from other posts.

 If I say:   "Do I Really need special controllers?"

     that can be read as: 

 "its not really standard practice, and its only a fringe thing that most of us dont agree with"

      English is like that.  The way in which you word things can change the meaning a lot..  as you can infer different attitudes and ideas from the WAY in which things are said / words arranged.

 If I instead said:

      What kinds of Controllers will I need?   or   What kinds of controllers are there?

 It no longer is aimed at any specific initial opinion or bias.  The reader will look at the list of controllers, see which games used what + why...  see the Pros and Cons of each controller in great detail..  such as mounting depths, control panel space, and multipurpose use.. as well as Cost, to see if its even possible to budget it.

My suggestion of "Do I really need special controllers?" is worded vaguely right now; I'm not interested in writing a sentence for every single non-joystick piece of hardware (e.g. "Do I really need a trackball?", etc.)  And since it's just the product of brainstorming, there was absolutely no tone intended.

The reason for that topic is because there were plenty of threads asking if they "really needed a Trackball" or "should get a spinner" (I asked that same question for my original build, actually) or "should invest in lightguns" and so forth. So long as I'm understanding the mission of Vigo's guide, I'm under the impression that going so far as making tables, hardware comparisons, etc. is a little beyond the scope of it.

[jdbailey1206]

I would like to see this called a "Generic" build guide as we all use different types of base materials.  That being said I would also like to see what MDF or birch is the industry standard for most cabinets.  I used 5/8 MDF and could have used 3/4 and it would have saved me at many different aspects of my build.

[Afterburner]

Trying to be constructive here without getting into the opinions too much....

How about a section on your goals for the cabinet?  From some of the cabs I've seen on here it is clear that some people accept a few controls that may limit game playability, but they spend a ton of effort on cab presentation.  I have seen some *phenomenal* looking cabs decked out with custom themed artwork, yet have a single 8way and two buttons.  Those cabs are pieces of art in and of themselves.

Others are more interested in functionality.   They build a cab up enough to get it working with the controls they want,  and that's as far as they are really interested taking it.  Some of the frankenpanel and crapmame stuff clearly falls in this category.

Still others want to more or less faithfully reproduce (or restore) a classic cab as near perfect as possible for an authentic "experience".

A large majority try to strike a balance between all three goals and many have been highly successful at it.

So I believe any successful cab design has to take all of that into consideration.

[AGarv]

If "best" design includes whether or not to make a 4-player panel and similar control choices... well that is like saying in car terms that a 2-door coupe is universally "best" versus a 4-door coupe, truck, SUV, etc.  It is Build your _OWN_ Arcade Controls.  If there is a "best", why don't we all just buy a Tankstick?  We don't buy Tanksticks mainly because we either 1) want custom control setups for our favorite games/systems, or 2) want custom aesthetic style (e.g., ONDs Retrofuture or any other cabinet you and I think is cool).

If "best" it is based upon "non-crapmame" principles, then it is really about AESTHETIC design, and maybe we can keep it focused on that.  People can put together Frankenpanels that play like a dream ergonomically, but the aesthetics (e.g., "wing" panels overhanging the sides, Defender button layouts, dedicated Wico 4-ways etc.,) are what is lacking.  If someone wants to sacrifice dedicated controls over aesthetics, that is their call, however we can still help them in other areas to make the cabinet look more pleasing.

Foremost, crapmame cabinets LOOK stupid (i.e., aesthetics).  There are plenty of topics to help reduce crapmames without getting into 4-player joystick angling, trigger sticks, and other nuances that people argue over.

Non-crapmame topics that may be useful:
1) Color schemes & coordination (garish colors that don't match, a crapmame staple)
2) Wing panels (these are plain ugly and often avoidable even for frankenpanels, a crapmame staple)
3) Monitor size vs. cabinet size (small LCDs/CRTs just don't cut it typically, another crapmame staple)
4) Overuse of existing video game art/characters/clip art, particularly if artistic styles are different (e.g. Donkey Kong right next to SF2, classic crapmame)
5) Cabinet naming ("Moms Arcade", MAMECade", other cringeworthy names that make no sense, yet another crapmame staple)