Control Panel

[TheMadMechanic]

Hi All,

Noob needs help.Trying to figure out my admin buttons on my CP for a barcade. There will be two separate control panels with a joystick and 6 buttons and a possible trackball & spinner.  I am going to be using a keywiz eco (2004) which has 32 inputs. The Keywiz will be built into the barcade.  Each CP will plug into the bottom of the barcade with printer cables.
Here are the admin buttons "pause", "enter", "ESC", "tab", "P1", "P2", "COIN1", "COIN2". The "pause", "enter", "ESC"and "tab" button will be smaller than the regular Happ comp. buttons I will be using.

So each CP will have 19 inputs and I only have 32 on the keywiz not including the trackball or spinner. --- perhaps I can hook the trackball and spinner to the other four buttons inputs when in a game using a spinner or trackball. Would it be an issue if someone accidentally hit on of the four buttons when using the trackball?

- Do I really need the "tab" admin button? I don't really see myself using it.
- Can I wire the "pause" to the P1 & P2 buttons  and the"enter" to the coin1 & coin2 button? would this cause havoc with mame? Using mame 0.147

I was trying to incorporate light guns in my CP which would be hidden away but the cost is way to high, maybe in the future. All done with a 32 input encoder. My inspiration was Frostillicus  and his rotating panel as well as Doc's modular panel. Now gotta read up on how a trackball works within mame. 

Thanks.

[Vigo]

Hello!

Well, you don't really need any "admin" buttons. For most everything, you can use key combos in MAME.

My standard setup is just controls with a coin button and start button for each player. Instead of escape, I use a combo of Coin1 + start1. For pause, I use start + right on joystick, Menu tab is start + left on joystick.

This is all soft mapping in MAME, no need for special wiring. when you set up the controls, just press the two buttons at once, it will detect it and map to both button presses.

Of course, if you want an admin button, by all means go for it. I am guessing you are trying to clean up your control panel though.

[shponglefan]

Be prepared for a lot of, um, diverse opinions on the subject.  Nothing seems touchier than the subject of admin buttons.

P1, P2, Coin, etc, I don't really consider admin buttons, but by all means you'll need 'em.

For admin buttons, I've liked using Esc (Quit), Tab (menu), Enter, and Pause.  More recently, I've been thinking of using a "reset" button with my CPs as well.  I've also found I like having dual Pause buttons for 2+ player CPs as it's nice for people to have one within easy reach if they need to pause the game for whatever reason.  You can also hide certain buttons out of the way so they don't necessarily clutter the main CP.

Tab can be useful; although in MAME it's usually just to initially make any custom game settings afterwhich you won't need it so much.  But I've found it useful in other contexts including other emulators (since it's used in many programs to cycle through options, onscreen buttons, etc.

One thing re: quit & reset buttons is to make sure they are in a spot where they won't be accidentally pressed.  Nothing is more frustrating than "oops I hit the wrong button" during a game and losing everything.

[TheMadMechanic]

Both thanks for the quick response.

Well, you don't really need any "admin" buttons. For most everything, you can use key combos in MAME. My standard setup is just controls with a coin button and start button for each player. Instead of escape, I use a combo of Coin1 + start1. For pause, I use start + right on joystick, Menu tab is start + left on joystick.

Yes, I am trying to keep my CP clean. I will be hiding my "esc" and "tab" button (which will only be on one CP), the "pause" and "enter" will be visible for use on the CP. I'm trying not to use combs as I want to avoid putting instructions on the panel. I want ppl of all age to be able to use the cp without instructions..my young nieces and even my mom Will def. keep your suggestion in mind and find a way to put subtle instruction on the CP, the more I think about it.

This is all soft mapping in MAME, no need for special wiring. when you set up the controls, just press the two buttons at once, it will detect it and map to both button presses.

So I am guessing I can  map the "pause" to the P1 & P2 button?

Be prepared for a lot of, um, diverse opinions on the subject.  Nothing seems touchier than the subject of admin buttons.

P1, P2, Coin, etc, I don't really consider admin buttons, but by all means you'll need 'em.

For admin buttons, I've liked using Esc (Quit), Tab (menu), Enter, and Pause.  More recently, I've been thinking of using a "reset" button with my CPs as well.  I've also found I like having dual Pause buttons for 2+ player CPs as it's nice for people to have one within easy reach if they need to pause the game for whatever reason.  You can also hide certain buttons out of the way so they don't necessarily clutter the main CP.

Tab can be useful; although in MAME it's usually just to initially make any custom game settings after which you won't need it so much.  But I've found it useful in other contexts including other emulators (since it's used in many programs to cycle through options, onscreen buttons, etc.

One thing re: quit & reset buttons is to make sure they are in a spot where they won't be accidentally pressed.  Nothing is more frustrating than "oops I hit the wrong button" during a game and losing everything.

I always hated the fact when you are on the x box only the person with controller 1 gets to make all the choices  this way both players get the option.

I also want to include a spinner and trackball on my CP, I have read the forums on the whole trackball vs spinner debate. I will probably go with a trackball and leave the option to add a spinner at a later date. If a trackball works like a mouse where do the two mouse buttons get mapped too? any of the other player buttons on the cp?

[PL1]

There will be two separate control panels with a joystick and 6 buttons and a possible trackball & spinner.  I am going to be using a keywiz eco (2004) which has 32 inputs.
. . .
So each CP will have 19 inputs and I only have 32 on the keywiz not including the trackball or spinner. --- perhaps I can hook the trackball and spinner to the other four buttons inputs when in a game using a spinner or trackball.

The trackball and/or spinner will require an optical encoder.

You can't use regular keyboard/gamepad encoders for them.

- Do I really need the "tab" admin button? I don't really see myself using it.

You'll definitely use it during setup, but unless you fiddle with settings regularly, it may not see much action.

If you have kids or drunk friends that will be playing on your cab, you may want to hide it well so you they don't mess up the settings too bad.   

- Can I wire the "pause" to the P1 & P2 buttons  and the"enter" to the coin1 & coin2 button? would this cause havoc with mame? Using mame 0.147

If you have the extra inputs, why not use dedicated buttons?

If you run other emulators besides MAME, a dedicated button will be easier to map/configure than a combo.


Scott

[Vigo]

So I am guessing I can  map the "pause" to the P1 & P2 button?

Yep! You can.

[TheMadMechanic]

The trackball and/or spinner will require an optical encoder. You can't use regular keyboard/gamepad encoders for them.

Ahhh that clears so much up!!! I'll go check out the optical encoders available. Hopefully it will work in tandem with the keywiz.

If you have kids or drunk friends that will be playing on your cab, you may want to hide it well so you they don't mess up the settings too bad.   

Will certainly hide them wouldn't want some one who is losing to hit escape...  unless I use it

- Do I really need the "tab" admin button? I don't really see myself using it.

- Can I wire the "pause" to the P1 & P2 buttons  and the"enter" to the coin1 & coin2 button? would this cause havoc with mame? Using mame 0.147

If you have the extra inputs, why not use dedicated buttons?

If you run other emulators besides MAME, a dedicated button will be easier to map/configure than a combo.

Just going to be running mame for now once I get it working will set up other emulators. so having a dedicated button will be usefull. Now to go rethink my layout for my CP.

[TheMadMechanic]

So I am guessing I can  map the "pause" to the P1 & P2 button?

Yep! You can.

Thanks Vigo you're super fast!!!

[PL1]

The trackball and/or spinner will require an optical encoder. You can't use regular keyboard/gamepad encoders for them.

Ahhh that clears so much up!!! I'll go check out the optical encoders available. Hopefully it will work in tandem with the keywiz.

Some trackballs/spinners come with their own encoder.

The optical encoders will work with the keywiz, no problem.


Scott

[TheMadMechanic]

Some trackballs/spinners come with their own encoder. The optical encoders will work with the keywiz, no problem.

I am going for a stainless steel trackball in my cp, just waiting on a price. Have to wait and see if it is even affordable.

[yotsuya]

I am going for a stainless steel trackball in my cp, just waiting on a price. Have to wait and see if it is even affordable.

  I'd like to see that. 

[TheMadMechanic]

The trackball and/or spinner will require an optical encoder. You can't use regular keyboard/gamepad encoders for them.

Ahhh that clears so much up!!! I'll go check out the optical encoders available. Hopefully it will work in tandem with the keywiz.

Some trackballs/spinners come with their own encoder.

The optical encoders will work with the keywiz, no problem.

Scott

Scott thanks for the info!! After doing some research if a spinner and trackball come with it own encoder, and I would have a spinner & TB per CP, why do I need something like the Opti-wiz? How would mame deal with 2 spinners & 2tb?

[PL1]

After doing some research if a spinner and trackball come with it own encoder, and I would have a spinner & TB per CP, why do I need something like the Opti-wiz? How would mame deal with 2 spinners & 2tb?

There is a MAME setting for multi-mouse.

If multi-mouse is enabled, each encoder is treated as a separate controller -- needed for 2 TB + 2 spinner setup.

If multi-mouse isn't enabled, all inputs add together to influence the associated axis simultaneously.

If you get the TT2, it comes with a modified Opti-Wiz that Randy can set it to Z-axis IIRC -- mail him for details.

Be sure you get different USB Device Numbers for the 2 TT2/Opti-Wiz's.

Randy also carries a trackball cable here for the Opti-Wiz.

If you use Z-axis for spinners, you'll need to edit MAME like TopJimmyCooks mentions here.

If you don't want to mess with Z-axis, you can do it with 3 encoders:
1. TB1 + Opti-Wiz
2. TB2 + Opti-Wiz
3. TT2 Master (X-axis) + Opti-Wiz + TT2 Slave (connect to Y-axis)


Scott

[TheMadMechanic]

After doing some research if a spinner and trackball come with it own encoder, and I would have a spinner & TB per CP, why do I need something like the Opti-wiz? How would mame deal with 2 spinners & 2tb?

There is a MAME setting for multi-mouse.

If multi-mouse is enabled, each encoder is treated as a separate controller -- needed for 2 TB + 2 spinner setup.

If multi-mouse isn't enabled, all inputs add together to influence the associated axis simultaneously.

If you get the TT2, it comes with a modified Opti-Wiz that Randy can set it to Z-axis IIRC -- mail him for details.

Be sure you get different USB Device Numbers for the 2 TT2/Opti-Wiz's.

Randy also carries a trackball cable here for the Opti-Wiz.

If you use Z-axis for spinners, you'll need to edit MAME like TopJimmyCooks mentions here.

If you don't want to mess with Z-axis, you can do it with 3 encoders:
1. TB1 + Opti-Wiz
2. TB2 + Opti-Wiz
3. TT2 Master (X-axis) + Opti-Wiz + TT2 Slave (connect to Y-axis)


Scott

Thanks!!!  WOW you just made my cp journey easier.

[TheMadMechanic]

Finally decided to add both  a spinner and a TB to each cp. Now to figure out how I am going to incorporated a light gun (LG) also.

I have read a lot of posts in forums relating to light guns and just have more questions.

I read up on Aim trak LG and its got a lot of good reviews and works well.  I am leaning towards getting the Aim trak kit and fitting up a gun. Just wanted to get an opinion. Are there any other alternative light gun choices? I heard a lot about TopGun is it an good?

Thanks
MM
     

[TheMadMechanic]

I am going for a stainless steel trackball in my cp, just waiting on a price. Have to wait and see if it is even affordable.

  I'd like to see that. 

  Way too expensive for a stainless trackball looking at $120+ two stainless steel track ball  Way out of what I wanted to spend on TB!!!

Does anyone know if I can hook up light guns to an Opi-Wiz, including a TB & spinner?

[Drnick]

Aimtraks connect via USB interface so they don't need connecting to the optiwiz. The only issue will be the amount of USB you have available.  You can have a powered USB Hub to control all these devices, but you should not plug/unplug devices as this can mess up the way that their ID's are recognised and then they won't work properly.

[TheMadMechanic]

Aimtraks connect via USB interface so they don't need connecting to the optiwiz. The only issue will be the amount of USB you have available.  You can have a powered USB Hub to control all these devices, but you should not plug/unplug devices as this can mess up the way that their ID's are recognised and then they won't work properly.

Thanks Drnick  now I can go order my modules from Ultimarc.

[TheMadMechanic]

Just got my 2 trackballs and then realized that they have a PS2 connector I need my PS2 connector for the keywiz. Anyone had had any trouble using them with a PS2 to USB connector then connected to a USB hub?

BTW: they are the 2-1/4" PS2 LED Illuminating PC/MAME Arcade Trackball got from Jammboards.

Thanks MM

[keilmillerjr]

Minimal is better in my opinion. For mame specific admin keys, just use a keyboard. You don't want nor need a player ---smurfing--- around with your ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. You can even add a USB port somewhere on the outside of your cabinet to make this easier.

So far, the current idea for my cabinet is to have:

1p
Pause
1p + Pause = Drop coin (via ipac shift function)
Hold 1p = Esc/exit (future feature of FrontEndHelper)

All mimicked for player 2 obviously. Actually, I might make holding 1p be a coin drop and holding pause be Esc/exit. I'm not sure. But you get the idea of how you can eliminate the need for a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- load of buttons now.

[TheMadMechanic]

Minimal is better in my opinion. For mame specific admin keys, just use a keyboard. You don't want nor need a player ---smurfing--- around with your ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. You can even add a USB port somewhere on the outside of your cabinet to make this easier.

So far, the current idea for my cabinet is to have:

1p
Pause
1p + Pause = Drop coin (via ipac shift function)
Hold 1p = Esc/exit (future feature of FrontEndHelper)

All mimicked for player 2 obviously. Actually, I might make holding 1p be a coin drop and holding pause be Esc/exit. I'm not sure. But you get the idea of how you can eliminate the need for a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- load of buttons now.

Thanks for the advice.... will keep it in mind.

[paigeoliver]

I have exactly 2 admin buttons and they are hidden out of sight on the underside of the panel where no one can see them.

They are escape and tab. I don't want ANY combination that the players can hit on the panel to either exit the game or get them into the tab menu. Put some kids on the cabinet and they find those combos in minutes, and before you know it they have unmapped the controls and you are having to pull out the keyboard and fix everything the hard way.

I don't understand why a dedicated enter key is even useful? My player 1 button 1 does the selecting in the tab menu. If you NEED enter for other emulators then I am sure you can change your encoder config so that one of your standard buttons does it.

[michelevit]

ditto for no dedicated hard wired admin buttons. just use a wireless keyboard.
I use this one and recommend it highly.

a dedicated pause button loses all cred for me. i keep mine on top of my cab.

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Multi-Touch-920-003070/dp/B005DKZTMG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370983923&sr=8-1&keywords=wireless+keyboard

[paigeoliver]

I do have pause on a combo, just because I have gotten to the point in Vs. Dr. Mario where my games can go an hour or more and I can never get through one without my wife needing help with the baby or having to let the dog in or out.

[shponglefan]

a dedicated pause button loses all cred for me. i keep mine on top of my cab.

"Cred"?  There's arcade "cred" now?

Sheesh people, we're talking about an uber-geeky DIY hobby.  There is no cred to be found in these parts, quit fooling yourselves.

[Vigo]

Whatcha mean? There's plenty of cred to be had here.



I'd be more asking what makes a pause button not legit, but yet a whole keyboard sitting out is OK....

[PL1]

To OP:  Some people store their keyboard on a shelf behind the coin door so it is normally hidden but easily accesible.
To others:  adminophobes.   

Let OP decide what is best for his circumstances instead of spewing your intolerant pause-button-hating posts. 

Seriously though, neither side will convince the other on the adminophobe vs. adminophile argument.

If you feel that strongly about it, start your own thread instead of threadjacking OP to proseletyze for your configuration fixation.   


Scott

[Cynicaster]

a dedicated pause button loses all cred for me. i keep mine on top of my cab.

"Cred"?  There's arcade "cred" now?

Sheesh people, we're talking about an uber-geeky DIY hobby.  There is no cred to be found in these parts, quit fooling yourselves.

Exactly. 

If you don’t want admin buttons on your panel because you want to minimize clutter or whatever, that’s perfectly understandable, but I’ve always found it completely ridiculous to cite “arcade authenticity” as the reason for omitting unquestionably useful buttons like pause and exit.   

MAME cabinets are nothing but big, multi-purpose emulation boxes; by definition, they are the very antithesis of authenticity.  Adding a convenient pause button in the corner of your “Joe’s Ultracade” control panel—northeast of the Tron controller, left of spinner #1, and a few inches above your 4-/8-way switchable joystick—hardly makes a dent in your authenticity quotient.   

[michelevit]

Pause button loses all credibilty for me. No cabinet from my youth had a pause button. (or ESC, Enter...) You can just trigger the commands with a wireless keyboard or a hidden button, or a shift command using two buttons. (holding player one, while joystick down etc..)
I keep my wireless keyboard on top of my cabinet. If I'm having a party, I'll just load a popular game and hide the keyboard.  My goal with building a cabinet is not have it look homebuilt, with dedicated admin buttons but like I convinced Apu from Quickee Mart to dolly it home after Nelson Muntz and his gang figured out how to string free credits.

[shponglefan]

Pause button loses all credibilty for me. No cabinet from my youth had a pause button. (or ESC, Enter...) You can just trigger the commands with a wireless keyboard or a hidden button, or a shift command using two buttons. (holding player one, while joystick down etc..)

Cabinets from your youth didn't run MAME either.  There's no authenticity in a home-built cab running MAME.  A pause button really doesn't change anything.

[darkSSide]

Authenticity? In my youth games weren't on free play neither. Are you actually putting in quarters in yours or your guests? Lets get real.
I have a pause and coin button thats it. For all other admin buttons I use combos but might add others once I finish my cab.

Sent from my Atari 2600

[yotsuya]

Enh, I can see where Michelevit is coming from. That's why I don't have admin buttons either. Each to his own.

[EightBySix]

Although remember there is nothing stopping us playing mame games on a regular PC on the desk with keyboard and mice. Isn't part of our hobby trying to improve on that situation to make it feel more like the arcades we remember?

[shponglefan]

Although remember there is nothing stopping us playing mame games on a regular PC on the desk with keyboard and mice. Isn't part of our hobby trying to improve on that situation to make it feel more like the arcades we remember?

While this is true, I think it's more the puzzling attitude that there is somehow some authenticity threshhold which exists for MAME cabinets.

To me, if a person is after true arcade authenticity, you only get that playing an original cabinet.  Or a replica which closely mimics an original as closely as possible.

But if you're talking about a generic homebuilt cab with a generic, multifunctional CP, running a modern PC with MAME, and using a wireless keyboard for admin functions... that's pretty far from being authentic.  That someone could honestly believe that it's the absense of a pause button that somehow makes their cabinet "authentic" at that point, is just laughable.  Once you go to a MAME-cab, you've basically accepted you're not after authenticity, but rather modern convenience.  There's nothing wrong with that; but people need to stop kidding themselves about it.

[TheMadMechanic]

Wow been away for a little while and there's this raging debate about admin buttons.... 

Well I am still going to have one or two admin buttons tucked away where only I know where they are. I don't really like wireless I prefer wired controls. Well once I am done my CP and my cab I will post pictures. I have an Oct deadline before my cousin's wedding so my nieces can play some old fashion mame games on a rocking cool cab... now just to finish my cab...flying sub anyone...

[McHale]

I use key combos for some functions (coins, pause, esc) but do have an admin panel behind the coin door with [momentary/off/momentary] toggle switches on them.  The only reason I didn't mount pause and esc buttons on the top of my control panel is because it's a thick steel control panel and drilling is a bit more difficult than drilling through wood.  Translation: I'm lazy.

[UFO]

I wasnt planning on having any admin buttons at all either.

What would be wrong with:

UP + PL1: COIN
RIGHT + PL1: EXIT
DOWN + PL1: PAUSE
LEFT + PL1: TAB

I can't really see anyone mistakenly pushing those combo's while playing, my PL1 button is out of the way.

I'm using a minipac - is this an issue?

[TheMadMechanic]

I wasnt planning on having any admin buttons at all either.

What would be wrong with:

UP + PL1: COIN
RIGHT + PL1: EXIT
DOWN + PL1: PAUSE
LEFT + PL1: TAB

I can't really see anyone mistakenly pushing those combo's while playing, my PL1 button is out of the way.

I'm using a minipac - is this an issue?

A minipac should be fine, it gives you the option to for combos.

[UFO]

Thanks buddy...

[PL1]

my PL1 button

You have a "Scott" button?   

Well . . . I'm not an admin so I guess that's OK. 

What would be wrong with:

UP + PL1: COIN
RIGHT + PL1: EXIT
DOWN + PL1: PAUSE
LEFT + PL1: TAB

It's not a question of "wrong", but a question of balancing advantages, disadvantages, and personal preferences in a multipart equation with variables that include:
- Functionality
- Ease of use
- Ease of use for wife/kids/guests (as applicable)
- Possibility that someone will mess up your setup (see below)
- Aesthetics

If someone says, "I just wanna panel that looks like a real one," that leaves a lot of room for potential pitfalls if they haven't planned things well enough.

I can't really see anyone mistakenly pushing those combo's while playing, my PL1 button is out of the way.

It's not that big of a stretch to imagine a casual/inexperienced/inattentive gamer with their left hand on the joystick reaching over to press P1 Start and accidently actuating the joystick.

How mad will your friends be if they're fighting Shredder during a great game of TMNT if Player one accidently pulls the joystick to the right as he hits P1 Start?

How mad will you be if some kid starts joystick-twiddling/button-mashing and messes up your carefully configured menu settings? (How long will it take to notice it?  How long to fix things after you eventually realize something is wrong?  How many things were changed that you won't find until the next party?)

I'm not saying it's guaranteed -- I'm not even saying it's probable.

I'm just saying that it's easily possible and that you should take that into consideration before mapping any combo/shifted button to menu on a dedicated cab instead of pulling out a keyboard for (rarely needed) re-configurations.

Whatever approach anyone chooses, I encourage them to make a fully-informed and carefully-considered decision.   


Scott