Fursphere's driving cabinet build

[Fursphere]

I started this about a month ago - been posting mostly on the hyperspin forums - but since you guys went ahead and created a driving cabinet specific forum here, I feel I should contribute

Here's a couple of pictures of where I'm at.  That's my nephew playing Dirt 3 (sort of playing..  hehe)

EDIT - Added v1 of the plans I made for the cabinet.   "mycab.zip" below.

[BadMouth]

Nice to see the sega style base done completely from scratch. 
Looking sweet!

[brad808]

I've been following this on the hyperspin forum but rarely post anything there. You've been making really good progress so far and it's turning out pretty sweet, good job.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[Nuexzz]

is great ! when you finish hope you do not mind sending the measures.

[drventure]

Nice!

Will you be running only PC games, or console drivers as well, or possibly some mame stuff too?

And what kind of seat is that?

[Fursphere]

is great ! when you finish hope you do not mind sending the measures.

I will post them.  I need to clean them up - but I think I've validated the basic plan enough to be satisfied. 

Nice!

Will you be running only PC games, or console drivers as well, or possibly some mame stuff too?

And what kind of seat is that?

PC - I currently plan Dirt 3, NFS Shift2, Blur, and I have a few others I'm trying out. 

Console - I have a Wii and a PS2 - I don't know if I will bother hooking them up.  I do have the Wii emulated on that PC, and it runs well enough to play Mario Kart Wii. 

MAME - Yup, I've got a complete .148 set, and I've been messing with lots of games.  Like Badmouth has mentioned in other threads, getting each game to run and *work* correctly with the Logitech wheel is a unique challenge every time.

Some games like Spy Hunter (the original) just won't work right with that wheel - it just isn't sensitive enough.  Way too much "dead space" in the controls

[gbeef]

 i haven't been on hyperspin in a long time. Your build is looking pretty sweet. Good idea on the speakers also., thats on thing i wish i did was have them down fire. When you work on the dash take your time. and bondo and fiberglass are your friends.

[Fursphere]

My dash got some cracks and dents and uglyness.   I was planning on epoxy on the backside - then bondo later.  I really wanted to use the metal back plate it comes with, but after a lot of thought and test fitting, it just made more sense to leave it out.

[Brian74]

So how do you plan on mounting your wheel? Fyi, Im Xx_Strike_xX on the Hyperspin Forums.

[Fursphere]

So how do you plan on mounting your wheel? Fyi, Im Xx_Strike_xX on the Hyperspin Forums.

The wheel is mounted.  I'll get a better picture of it later for you.  The entire dash section was built as a module, so I can remove the whole thing at once.  Although that's a little tricky with all the wires / connections that the wheel has.  I may end up drilling two holes just big enough for the mounting screws all the way though the cabinet so they can be removed without pulling the "dash section". 

Everything I've built so far has a simple way of taking it apart for maintenance or modifications. 

Logitech is closing their "console gaming" division this year (/cry) - I'm hoping the steering wheel line and PC game controller line doesn't get cut with it.

[gbeef]

For the cracks i used fibre glass tape and epoxy. Also i have 4 bolts inside my cab to secure the wheel your setup looks bang on to mine. On the dash i extended a lip out on it, this way your face inst right in the screen. Keep in mind on the 2 large camps and how that will secure down.
Very nice progress so far.

[Fursphere]

So here is how I mounted the steering wheel....   (and I went ahead and mounted the shifter - its not done by any means).  And an side profile shot from a few weeks ago.

I need to add support to the back of the dashboard, then the gluing, filling, sanding, painting can start on this part. 

[Fursphere]

Finished the construction of the dashboard today. Rebuilt the shifter area, and pushed it out (towards the driver) about 3/4" more. Feels much better, and doesn't have the clearance issues underneath anymore. I used Tee nuts to secure the Daytona dashboard - need to build some spacers in the rear so it doesn't get compressed and crack. All four bolts are in now. I used a 1 1/4" hole saw to bore right through the shifter mounting plate to in between the supports to run the cable through to the rear. I had to notch the dash plate there anywhere for the shifter backside, so it just worked out nicely. Next up will be tearing it apart one last time to glue and pin everything together, then wood filler (or bondo) to smooth it all out then painting it. I'm still a bit amazed at just how long this one section has taken so far - and still isn't complete.

Next up will be figuring out the seat - I'm still not happy with the basic design, but I'm not sure how to do it better either.

First pic shows the clearance problems I was having with the old mount.

[Fursphere]

Started re-drawing the plans in Google Sketchup.  Should take me a couple of days.

[Fursphere]

Added v1 of the plans I made for the cabinet.  I used the plans found in Badmouth's driving thread and a picture of gbeef's cabinet (and a bunch of algebra) to get a rough idea of the design.

I made these plans mostly this evening - based on my cabinet.  Working backwards? 

Anyway, if you have any questions let me know.  The drawing file is Google Sketchup 8.  I'll probably add more to it later.

Oh ya, I got my Pyle 2x120watt (lol) amp today and tested it out with the 2nd set of speakers I have.  I think its going to work pretty good!  (The manual really says its 2x20watt, 120watt peak, hence the 'lol' - I knew this going in though, at the price I paid, it was not a super high quality amp)

[deathrow]

You have some really great wood working skills!

All looking top notch, well done mate 

[Fursphere]

Thanks!

I routed out the speaker panel and "sunk" the speakers - they're almost flush with the panel now (almost because if I went any deeper I'd hit the t-nuts...  the whole time I was routing it I was waiting to see sparks as it was).  I hooked them up to the amp this morning - sound pretty good!  I'm debating on if I should "seal" in the speaker compartment, or let it breath.  There are arguements both ways for speaker cabinet design. 

[Fursphere]

I shouldn't have known better.  I hooked up the high frequency drivers with the filter's and did some testing.  The little tweeters that came with the dash board actually enhanced the sound range of the Polk speakers.  Then I went ahead and hooked up one of the big drives and damn, what a difference. 

So..  I'll be getting out the hole saw and mounting those up behind the dash today.   

[Arturius]

Looks like a great build so far, will be watching with interest

[Fursphere]

So the Pyle 2-channel (2x20w real output) amplifier just wasn't cutting it.  So I returned it.  Remembering I had a 12v 30amp power supply left over from my R/C car days, I started looking at *real* car audio amplifiers.

I ended up buying a 4-Channel (4x50w real output) Sound Ordnance amp.  (that's Crutchfield's "house" brand from what I understand)  The amp has full range and high pass filters for the front channel (I'll be using full), then full/high/low filters for the rear (I only want lows for the rear). 

Those 2 Pyle 8s are mounted directly under where the seat will be mounted.  I haven't boxed anything in yet (mostly due to my "free time" aligning perfectly with the kiddo's "nap times"...  oh well ). 

But just how it sits now with the rear / lower speakers turned up a little the whole lower cabinet vibrates nicely, and inst loud at all - the low pass filter is awesome.  I think when I get the upper and lower speaker boxes finished and sealed there is going to be some significant rumbling going on. 

If I end up not getting enough from the 2x8s, I'll just swap them out for a bass shaker.  The Sound Ordnance amp also has an output for another amp if I want to get REALLY silly.  (I don't think it'll come to that)

I had to buy the amp anyway to drive a bass shaker.

[Fursphere]

So, I got the Y cables to tie the front and rear channels together, and hooked that up last night.  Wasn't getting what I wanted out of it.  The tweeters are still just too damn loud.  I unhooked them this morning. 

I'm still not happy with it.  To get any amount of feedback out of the system, I have to crank it up - and even at like 15% volume its way too loud (I haven't even messed with the +gain on the amp itself - its pushing minimal power). 

I can get the rears jumping really good, but by that point the fronts are making you deaf. 

I'm considering returning the amp, yanking the speakers out, and putting in a nice Logitech 5.1 system with a higher end Sound Blaster sound card.  All the newer games support surround sound, and for the ones that don't - the Sound Blaster cards have software options to correct for that. (CMSS-3D stereo balancing I think).

Maybe I'm just getting old?   

[Howard_Casto]

I don't think I'd waste money on a soundblaster card....  it's not a hi-fi system, just a racing cab.   All sound cards are software driven at this point.... I'd be genuinely shocked if your on board audio didn't support surround sound and have all the correctional sliders you need to fix things.   

I know many people will be surprised to hear this, but typically amps designed for the pc work best for the pc.... shocker I know.    All of my mame cabs used a hacked up pc speaker with a good amp in it (hooked to genuine arcade speakers of course).  It's worked well over the years and typically a decent quad audio rig can be bought for under 50 bucks.  Logitech will do you well, I think that's what I'm using on my home pc actually. 

[Drnick]

I can get the rears jumping really good, but by that point the fronts are making you deaf. 

I'm considering returning the amp, yanking the speakers out, and putting in a nice Logitech 5.1 system with a higher end Sound Blaster sound card.  All the newer games support surround sound, and for the ones that don't - the Sound Blaster cards have software options to correct for that. (CMSS-3D stereo balancing I think).

Maybe I'm just getting old?   

Yeah, I think you are getting too old,  Does the current Amp not allow you to adjust Front/rear balancing? If it does then surely you can set the rears to 90% and the fronts to about 10%. (Tweak the frequency going to the rear speakers as low as the speakers will allow).

If you go down the logitech route I highly recommend you get a soundcard/speaker combination that can use optical connections. I am using a z5400 set in my living room, (Connected to PC/360/BR/SKY/TV/PS3)  I like it for a number of reasons, but mostly because it allows you to independantly decide the level you want pumping to the sub. So you can have the sub right the way down and have the main volume quite loud or have it the other way round.

On my jukebox I am using a set of x560's which doesn't have optical, It just uses 3 x Headphone Jack to Phono.  It doesn't seem to matter what settings I use in the creative software the woofer is much too boomy and over the top even though its only about 20W against the 120W or so of the 5400.   (The only issue I can think about with the 5400's is the size of the sub, It's quite chunky).  I ran the THX Subwoofer test on it the other day at about 10% volume and basically had to quickly turn it off when just about everything in the house started vibrating     I say don't worry about getting old and install a set of Z906's  Or a decent 2.1 set at the front and a Buttkicker under the seat.

[Howard_Casto]

Again, it's a racing cab, not a hi-fi rig.  Enjoy spending way too much money to listen to highly compressed sound files in a video game.  It's like having a thousand dollar stereo system to listen to mp3s. 

I'm not trying to argue, it's just you speaker nerds kill me.  Unless it's a bluray movie or a physical cd with uncompressed wav files there's no point in using really high-end stuff.  You know the old saying, garbage in, garbage out.  And most of the audio coming out of video games or emulators, it's definitely garbage. 

[Fursphere]

My Gigabyte motherboard has Realtek audio on-board.  It does support 2.1/5.1/7.1 connections.  It does NOT support treble / bass control.  So unless your speakers are perfectly tuned to YOUR ears, you can't do anything about it.  I want the aftermarket sound card for this level kind of control.  Realtek audio is just flat sounding garbage. 

The amp has front and rear GAIN control (volume) seperately.  I have the front set to ZERO gain, and if I turn the windows volume up to about 15%, its just too much.  I can't make it any lower. 

I've done stuff like this in the past and never had issues - so I'm a bit confused as to whats going on right now honestly.  I'm going to play with it when I get home (before the kids go to sleep so I can actually make some noise) and see if I can get anything better out of it. 

I think the problem really is that the speakers are too loud and too close to the driver seat.  I used those speakers in large rooms in different cabinets and they always sounded great.  But now that they are about two feet from my face, its just overpowering. 

[drventure]

I'd tend to agree with Howard.

It's a cab, not a home theater system. Drop 20-50$ on a logitec system and use the rest for things that really matter in a driving cab, like the wheel, shifter, seat, screen, or whatever.

[Fursphere]

It's a cab, not a home theater system. Drop 20-50$ on a logitec system and use the rest for things that really matter in a driving cab, like the wheel, shifter, seat, screen, or whatever.

Wheel - done
Shifter - done
Seat - done
Screen - done

What else do I have left to tweak? 

Seriously though, I mentioned the 5.1 one idea (vs what I've already done) to my friend, and he's like "I've got a Logitech 5.1 system you can have - its extra".  So...  I'll take that for a spin. 

[drventure]

Doh!

Well then, you're way ahead of me 

But a free set is way better than a paid set and those logitec don't sound bad.

I used a 2.1 Altec lansing set in my buffet cab and I get comments all the time on how good it sounds (what sucks is I can't tell myself at all, my hearing's gone down the tubes over the last few year.   

[Howard_Casto]

And just for the record, I've got a realtech on board on this pc... sounds fantastic. 

And yes it doesn't have "treble/bass" sliders exactly, but going into the advanced options you can adjust each speaker individually including the sub channel and center.  Also in the "effects" section, there are various filters you can apply, including some "levels" presets and there should be either a "custom" or "user-defined" preset that you can use. 

What I'm saying is the issue isn't the card, it's your speaker hardware.  Could be the positioning, could be the amp, it could be a lot of things.  You could keep playing with it forever to get it right, or just put a rig designed for pcs in there and have it work out of the box. 

Also you have messed with the HD audio manager in the control panel?  Tons more settings there.  If you don't have one then you don't have the software/drivers fully installed for the chipset and are instead using the crappy ones included with windows. 

[BadMouth]

Just an FYI, audio processing on the fly by using the audio manager software makes more work for your processor.
Best not to use it if you're trying to get by with less than a killer processor.

[brad808]

If you are willing to spend the money and you aren't happy with what you have now then go buy what you want. Otherwise you will just end up replacing it again until it's up to your standards.

I have two amps in my cab. A 5.1 surround sound home theatre style receiver and a separate small amp that powers a bass rumbler off the subwoofer line.

I only threw the 5.1 receiver in there as a temporary solution but it works great so I left it in (at least until I find something else I would rather be using) . Total control over each individual speaker volume and eq. Optical inputs. Pretty sure it cost $100, probably 7-10 years ago.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[Fursphere]

What I'm saying is the issue isn't the card, it's your speaker hardware.  Could be the positioning, could be the amp, it could be a lot of things.  You could keep playing with it forever to get it right, or just put a rig designed for pcs in there and have it work out of the box. 

Also you have messed with the HD audio manager in the control panel?  Tons more settings there.  If you don't have one then you don't have the software/drivers fully installed for the chipset and are instead using the crappy ones included with windows.

The speakers sound fine, they're just too damn loud.  Hey - I had an idea and it didn't work out.  Not the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last.    I only paid for the amp (already had the speakers), and I'm sure I can return the amp.  Not an issue.

Yes, I've played with the AC97 HD manager software - its severely lacking.  Garbage IMO.  I guess I just have higher expectations than most for audio. 

Converting the cabinet over to 5.1 shouldn't be a huge deal.  I'll have to get the table saw out and cut a few new panels. 

With the 8" Pyle's I wanted to use, the downside is I wouldn't know if they'd work or not until after I got them installed and was able to test it.  Now I know. 

[gbeef]

If your looking for something that thumps. I can highly Reccomend butt kicker transducers. The cheaper versions are the Aruras.

[Fursphere]

If your looking for something that thumps. I can highly Reccomend butt kicker transducers. The cheaper versions are the Aruras.

You've got this + a 5.1 computer speaker system on your cab, correct?

[Fursphere]

Update.

1) I was actually able to crank things up yesterday after I got home from work - to around 50% volume.  It was pretty loud (I would say arcade on location loud), but sounded pretty damn good.  And it was *almost* giving me the physical feedback I wanted.  I think the "front" speakers are too big.   Eights are overkill when they're only about 30" from your face.     I have some 4" speakers (I think?  They're at my brothers house, i'm going to go get them tonight or tomorrow) that I want to experiment with.  I really want to idea to work, mostly because its fun messing around with it. 

2) I ordered a Sound Blaster Z (should be here today actually) so I can ditch the crappy onboard sound.  Say what you will, I want a better sound card.

3) My friend gave me his extra 5.1 Logitech system to mess around with.  So I'll be testing that this weekend too. 

4) I ordered a 50w Aura transducer (bass shaker).   The "rear" 2x 8" speakers are coming close, but just not doing it.  For $50, I figured I'd try out a transducer since I already have the amp to drive it (just bridge the two rear channels together). 

More to follow as I tinker more.   

[gbeef]

If your looking for something that thumps. I can highly Reccomend butt kicker transducers. The cheaper versions are the Aruras.

You've got this + a 5.1 computer speaker system on your cab, correct?

Yeah i have a 5.1 and a Buttkicker. the butt kicker uses the low end bass, that makes a transducer shake. Think of a how force feedback in a controller works it almost works the same. A buttkicker is not a speaker, Its a shaker. Its gives you that DAYYYYTOONNNNNAAA Feel...

Also when you play say NFS shift and you go off course and hit the side rails or side shirts you can feel the ground.

[deathrow]

Stunning work on this.
Love the base speaker positions, thats gonna rumble very nicely 

[Fursphere]

So I've been trying to come up with a theme / artwork ideas for the cabinet.  I keep coming back to the Need for Speed series, probably because I'm really enjoying NFS Hot Pursuit at the moment.

I was kind of thinking one of the exotic sports cars on one side of the cabinet, and then one of the exotic police cars on the other.

[deathrow]

So I've been trying to come up with a theme / artwork ideas for the cabinet.  I keep coming back to the Need for Speed series, probably because I'm really enjoying NFS Hot Pursuit at the moment.

I was kind of thinking one of the exotic sports cars on one side of the cabinet, and then one of the exotic police cars on the other.

Lambo police car on one side and lambo non police on other would look great

[Fursphere]

That's the idea.   When the time comes, I should just hire somebody with talent to do it.  Graphic artwork has never been one of my strong points.


On the sound front - I hooked up the Logitech x-530 speakers last night, placed them loosely in the proper place and I'll admit hands down that they sound much better than what I tried to do (Howard - for the record you were right on the speaker issues ).  Oh well, it was fun building.  So now I'm looking for a way to cleanly integrate them into the cabinet.   

I still have the Aura bass shaker on order, so next will be getting that working when it arrives - which means I'll probably end up swapping amps, as I won't need the big four channel one anymore.