Which Spinner?

[Brian74]

Trying to decide which spinner to get. I dont need the hi/lo. So which one to get??

[Felsir]

I can recommend the Spintrak. It has a small footprint and installs in the controlpanel as you would install a button.
I have no experience with other spinners, but so far I'm happy with my spintrak.

This http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/reviews/roundup7.html old comparison probably is still valid- most available spinners are good. So it boils down to looks, connectivity and space required in the panel.

[Brian74]

 Does it come with everything I need to connect it?

[Le Chuck]

Turbo Twist 2 is pretty awesome and it's plug and play.  Also a button insert. 

[shponglefan]

Ditto Turbo Twist 2.

[Brian74]

These are the two I was considering. I need to get a LED controller too. I have 2 ledwiz, maybe I will get the turbo twist. I just know it took forever to get stuff from ggg

[SteveW25561]

I'm also in the process of deciding between a TurboTwist 2 vs Ultimarc Spintrak.

I'm planning to put ONE of these into an X Arcade Tankstik (the one with the trackball), likely located somewhere near the middle of the unit, thus drilling a new button-sized hole for either of these.  I have it on order so I don't know what the internal clearance looks like, but others have added spinners w/o issue.

Is the Spintrak USB 2 interface a significant advantage over TurboTwist 2?  Both are 1200 transitions/rotation.

I presume the knobs are universally compatible?  The larger tokentop knob at groovygamegear allows you to forego a counterweight since it's heavier (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86&products_id=280)

I'm thinking of these options:

1. TT2 w/ USB interface + larger token-insert knob, no counterweight
2. Spintrak w/ USB 2 interface + larger token-insert know, no counterweight

Aside from buying from 2vendors thus a bit more shipping, any other thoughts?

[PL1]

Aside from buying from 2vendors thus a bit more shipping, any other thoughts?

+1 on TT2.

Consider getting the 7" steering wheel, too.


Scott

[nick3092]

Without attempting to start any kind of war between the manufactures of these products, I wanted to throw my .02 in on the USB 1.1/USB 2.0 part of the discussion.  I am no USB or electronics expert by any means, so take this with a grain of salt.  And I welcome anyone who knows better to correct me.  As I personally have wondered this in the past, and would like to know if there is a real-world difference here.  Or if I'm mistaken in anyway of my thought process.

USB 2 has higher bandwith and lower latency than USB 1.1.  In the case of a mouse/spinner, I highly doubt it's transmitting more than 12Mbit/sec of data limit of full bandwith 1.1.  And I doubt the OS would ever poll the mouse faster than USB 1.1.

I'd be surprised if a spinner/mouse even transmits more than the 1.5Mbit of the low bandwith mode of 1.1.  Granted, there is overhead in USB that eats into each packet, but I still doubt a mouse device would exceed it.  Additionally, I believe the 2.0 specs don't require the HW mfg to support the full 480Mbit/s.  Meaning if the device won't be using "High Speed" mode, it can still be compliant with 2.0 specs but only support  "Low/Full Speed".

And while USB 2.0 does have a faster latency, (like 950ns for 2.0 vs 1ms for USB 1.1), I don't think the OS would even notice.  But by default (for windows at least), the OS only polls the mouse every 125Hz (8ms) anyway.  You can increase it, but I doubt you would get any benefit of increasing the polling rate to 1000Hz (1ms).

And as a full disclaimer, I went with the TT2 myself.  Because I happened to place my first major order of supplies with Randy, and I felt they were comparable.

[RandyT]

And I welcome anyone who knows better to correct me.  As I personally have wondered this in the past, and would like to know if there is a real-world difference here.  Or if I'm mistaken in anyway of my thought process.

There is no real world, or any other difference when playing games.  According to the numbers, based on the default  8ms poll rate (which can be increased with some OS tweaks, but won't provide a benefit) you would have to generate 125 (samples per second) x 127 (the max difference per each sample)= 15625 "ticks" on the encoder per second, before it was even noticed.  This comes out to over 12 full revolutions on the TT2 per second.  Considering that paddle games have less than a couple hundred positions on the screen, your player would be off the screen and in the next room in that second. 

In other words, you are correct in your assessment.

If you've ever done a serial mouse hack, you know what happens when the limit is exceeded.  Backspin, which is something you will never see on a current TurboTwist2, unless it is the fault of the game ROM you are playing.  But the spinner hardware has nothing to do with that issue.

RandyT

[shponglefan]

Consider getting the 7" steering wheel, too.

The wheel is great (lots of fun with Super Sprint!), but then it also necessitates a pedal for driving games.  Although even a basic switch pedal works surprisingly well.

[PL1]

Consider getting the 7" steering wheel, too.

The wheel is great (lots of fun with Super Sprint!), but then it also necessitates a pedal for diving games.  Although even a basic switch pedal works surprisingly well.

A rocker foot switch like this connected using a stereo audio jack to wire the pedal switches in parallel with two of the buttons on the panel works great.  Also good for the high/low function in Discs of Tron.




Scott

[EssexMame]

Consider getting the 7" steering wheel, too.

The wheel is great (lots of fun with Super Sprint!), but then it also necessitates a pedal for diving games.  Although even a basic switch pedal works surprisingly well.

Is this wheel 7" diameter or 7" radius? I assume diameter but 7" seems way to small to steer as if driving a car? Or maybe i'm wrong - what size is the wheel on, say, Pole Position or Out Run (which is a 27 degree I believe).

[shponglefan]

Consider getting the 7" steering wheel, too.

The wheel is great (lots of fun with Super Sprint!), but then it also necessitates a pedal for diving games.  Although even a basic switch pedal works surprisingly well.

Is this wheel 7" diameter or 7" radius? I assume diameter but 7" seems way to small to steer as if driving a car? Or maybe i'm wrong - what size is the wheel on, say, Pole Position or Out Run (which is a 27 degree I believe).

7 inch diameter.    It actually works reasonable well.  Here's a picture in use.  It's just big enough for both hands:



Not sure about the specific size of Pole Position or Outrun, but the typical driving wheel is around 12 inches give or take.

[PL1]

Consider getting the 7" steering wheel, too.

The wheel is great (lots of fun with Super Sprint!), but then it also necessitates a pedal for diving games.  Although even a basic switch pedal works surprisingly well.

Is this wheel 7" diameter or 7" radius? I assume diameter but 7" seems way to small to steer as if driving a car? Or maybe i'm wrong - what size is the wheel on, say, Pole Position or Out Run (which is a 27 degree I believe).

The down side to using a full-size wheel with the TT2 is that the greater leverage increases the odds that you'll accidently bend the spinner shaft.

The TT2 wheel is not as rugged as an arcade steering wheel, but it's also not as large a mounting footprint or as expensive.


Scott

[RandyT]

The down side to using a full-size wheel with the TT2 is that the greater leverage increases the odds that you'll accidently bend the spinner shaft.

That's really not going to happen, unless you really try hard to do it, and even then I doubt it.  The TT2 shaft is a full .250" diameter of hardened stainless steel, and the wheel is engaged to it over a short length.  You'd probably have a better chance of breaking the whole unit out of your panel before bending the shaft.

[PL1]

The down side to using a full-size wheel with the TT2 is that the greater leverage increases the odds that you'll accidently bend the spinner shaft.

That's really not going to happen, unless you really try hard to do it, and even then I doubt it.  The TT2 shaft is a full .250" diameter of hardened stainless steel, and the wheel is engaged to it over a short length.  You'd probably have a better chance of breaking the whole unit out of your panel before bending the shaft.

Perhaps I phrased that wrong.

Based on one of your older posts, I thought the reason you didn't go larger on the wheels was to minimize possible damage to the spinner.

Did I get the wrong impression or was this concern limited to the TT2 High/Low?


Scott

[RandyT]

Based on one of your older posts, I thought the reason you didn't go larger on the wheels was to minimize possible damage to the spinner.

Did I get the wrong impression or was this concern limited to the TT2 High/Low?

No problem.  You do fine work finding answers buried in the archives here for folks.

That concern was limited to the High-Low.  It uses an acrylic mounting plate, held on by 3 screws, and has a floating shaft assembly.  There's a lot more going on there, and extreme forces in the wrong direction on the assembly would not be good.  If it was torqued really hard with a large wheel, it could deform the track in which the shaft is floating, break the mounting plate, etc. which would never be able to happen without the additional forces the wheel is capable of applying.  We actually make special versions of the smaller wheels for the High-Low, which has a felted bottom and rests on the mounting plate, for those who absolutely insist on a wheel for that assembly.  No problems yet, so it must do the trick. 

Compared to the High-Low, the TurboTwist2 is "bulletproof".

RandyT

[PL1]

Thanks for the clarification, Randy.   

The posts that had me thinking that about the TT2 were these:

I actually have an 8-inch version of the Mini Racer wheels here that was evaluated for use with the TT2.  Yes, one could use it, but that extra inch of diameter allows for a lot more leverage to be placed on the spinner.

Ultimately, what made me decide against it was a matter of the higher cost to keep inventory and greater possibility of damage to the spinner (or panel) if abused.

The smaller diameter of the wheel prevents too much leverage from being applied.  You can't (and shouldn't try to) "lean" on it like you can a 12" Pole Position wheel, so you can't think about them in the same way.
. . .
I actually have larger ones available to me, but didn't feel comfortable offering them because they do start getting large enough to exert more force on the TT2.  Even then, I'm not worried about the TT2 as much as the panel.

Scott

[RandyT]

Yes.  That's why I drew the line at 7", after putting it through the stress test.  The possible forces go up dramatically from 7 to 8, so I didn't want to risk offering the 8" ones as a standard option.

Of course, we have provided a couple of those 8-inchers by special request, but they come with a warning at no extra charge .

[WindDrake]

Going to put in a +1 for the TT2. Fantastic piece of hardware. Love it on my new cab.