Electrical Issues: Hatch Lift - Battletech Pod - Tail Gate Lift Motor

[danny_galaga]

So the top part of the hatch is now working as expected.


Rocker switch and relays have arrived.  Electrical wiring to commence.

I've cut the Side door but it needs a little trimming to fit.  The width was calculated wrong so I've got a 4x12 rectangle in the bottom left that is open.  If the current door fits/works I'll just affix another piece with an extension/wood glue/bondo

The motor arm is strong enough to lift the wood but when I hooked it up and tried it once I noticied that the arm moved away from the board in a slant, which since I affixed it to the wood with bolts got very tough about 50-85 degrees up.  The issue was the arm connects to the motor on a 45 degree slant, which is fine if it didn't move but when moves with the wood it moves out to the left, resulting in an angry motor.  To semi-resolve this I simply tilted the left side of the motor up, to where it's kind of slanted and the slant on the motor is more closely associated with a 70-80 degree above 0.

The motion up is a jerk at the start because it's easy but as it climbs it encounters resistance and becomes smooth.  The motion down is smooth until about 35-40 degrees above 0 and then it comes down hard.  I associate this to the fact that I can move the track on the motor moderately easy, which makes sense since you can also open the lift gate by hand.  So it's 100% confirmed that I will need struts to let the door close smoothly without force and also lift smoothly at the first phase.  I assume once I add the side door the motion up will be smooth with all the weight associated.

So now to find struts.  At the junkyard most are ballpoint, which creates a problem, since I really need the plate style.  Additionally it's anywhere in the range of 15 to -15 degrees out, and all of these struts are firmly in their associated cars.  The motor was easily removed with two bolts but these struts I'll have to take apart lots of paneling and I just don't want to be out there spending so much time doing that.  I might take a trip back and check it out again.

Damn, that is looking good!  Bear in mind no load is VERY different to loaded with car stuff. The figures you saw before sound about right. A stalled DC motor is essentially a short. If it's connected to a 12V battery, I reckon 50 amps easy. Of course, if it's connected to a power supply, it probably can't even supply 50 amps (the battery can supply nearer 1000). I'd say in operation with some load it would be between 10 and 20 amps (with a battery). Anyway, it all seems moot now since you have it working!

[danny_galaga]

Oh, and with the clutch. Just had a thought. If it needs to be powered on to engage, you could hook it up to an automotive pop out circuit breaker, say 15 or 20 amps. If the hatch overloads because you got your neck stuck in there (we'll miss you Kahlid!) then it'll pop and hatch is free. Of course you'd definitely want struts because if it popped near fully open, then the lid might slam down hard.

You've inspired me for a a future project I've been thinking about. This is great work!

About the struts. I used to work at an architectural hardware wholesaler. they also sold gas struts, which they had the machinery to gas to various pressures. This isn't going to help you directly, because I live in Australia, but it's food for thought for another line of inquiry. I can't remember what the cost of the struts was though...

Man, you've got me thinking though!

[kahlid74]

UGH.  So I got the side door attached and I recessed it into the pod and then fuuuudggge, I realized that the mechanism is going to pull the door up a little bit before it pulls it out.  I haven't run the motor yet with it but I fear it won't go up cause it will be stuck.  Son of a bees wax.  There's me and my not actually thinking it through before I go wood glue/nailing/screwing it together.  Fudge sticks.

[PL1]

Looks like your main problem will be with the area outlined in red.

Most of that length will probably just need an almost full-depth 45 degree chamfer like the diagram on the right.

If that doesn't quite clear the upper fixed edge, you can cut the edge back and use countersunk aluminum flat stock on the door to bridge the gap.



Scott

[kahlid74]

Looks like your main problem will be with the area outlined in red.

Most of that length will probably just need an almost full-depth 45 degree chamfer like the diagram on the right.

If that doesn't quite clear the upper fixed edge, you can cut the edge back and use countersunk aluminum flat stock on the door to bridge the gap.



Scott

Good call.  I'll look at the tools I have and how I could make this cut.  Jigsaw/Circular Saw/Router.  Hmmm.  I'm not really going to be able to take the door off so it's going to be a tricky cut.

[BadMouth]

I realized that the mechanism is going to pull the door up a little bit before it pulls it out.

I thought that when you posted drawings, but didn't comment because I thought it would be stating the obvious. 
I just assumed the door was going to be oversized and on the outside of the pod in real life.

[BadMouth]

You could ditch the whole door lifting idea and have it slide toward the front.
I think it would look cool.  It would be easier to do and require no clearance.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Did you pull the ac unit from that Honda?  looks like it's gonna be hot in there. 

[PL1]

I'll look at the tools I have and how I could make this cut.  Jigsaw/Circular Saw/Router.  Hmmm.  I'm not really going to be able to take the door off so it's going to be a tricky cut.

Maybe a piece of lumber (1x4, 2x4, etc.) screwed to the door to act as a straight edge guide for your router?

Drill start and stop holes for the router bit.

Chain drill several small holes and use a chisel to carefully break through the last little bit.


Scott

[danny_galaga]

Did you pull the ac unit from that Honda?  looks like it's gonna be hot in there.

[kahlid74]

Did you pull the ac unit from that Honda?  looks like it's gonna be hot in there.

There's two fans in the back that will be hooked up to a temp control system and will vary their fans accordingly.  If it gets hotter than that I'll brainstorm more fun ways to cool it down.

I'll look at the tools I have and how I could make this cut.  Jigsaw/Circular Saw/Router.  Hmmm.  I'm not really going to be able to take the door off so it's going to be a tricky cut.

Maybe a piece of lumber (1x4, 2x4, etc.) screwed to the door to act as a straight edge guide for your router?

Drill start and stop holes for the router bit.

Chain drill several small holes and use a chisel to carefully break through the last little bit.
Scott

I think what I'm going to do is take the door all the way off.  It's only on by the hinges and motor arm.  so I can take it off completely and then reaffix it.

[bkenobi]

I imagine that motor is pretty strong if it's designed to lift a tailgate (even with gas shocks).  What provisions have you made to keep the door from removing fingers and/or heads?

[kahlid74]

I imagine that motor is pretty strong if it's designed to lift a tailgate (even with gas shocks).  What provisions have you made to keep the door from removing fingers and/or heads?

Great question and requires a multifaceted answer:
The first set of sensors will be connected to Relays specific to the door's position at the end of opening or closing.  I plan to use micro-switches to identify when it's closed/opened and to kill power to the clutch/motor.  This way the doors motion will stop when it hits either of those positions.

The second set of sensors would be pressure sensitive and will be quite a bit more difficult to achieve.  Since the clutch has built in sensor controls, on a car when the liftgate encounters resistance it triggers one of these sensors (resistance closing/opening) and disengages the clutch.  I want to achieve something similar to this as a phase 2.  The challenging part will be hooking up the sensors to measure resistance and understanding how to get the clutch to disengage once resistance has been acknowledged (simply connected the pins didn't do it, so I wonder if I have to send a charge through)

[HaRuMaN]

I'm gonna miss kahlid74...

[bkenobi]

If you were to have the door slide, using a pressure switch of some kind would work great.  But, this arrangement is rotating.  If you set the pressure switch to an appropriate value such that a limb won't be severed near the bottom of the door, there's likely enough force on top of the cab next to the hinge to remove a finger real clean like!  I love the concept, but I'm wondering if you might be better off with either:

• A sliding door as suggested earlier
• Making the gap between the doors larger such that a finger or small person's arm would not be injured by a closure (~2" seems safe to me).  You can use some type of rubber molding to mate the 2 surfaces such that they still seal tightly.

This is a hobby that should be fun.  Rushing to the ER with a finger in ziplock doesn't sound fun IMO.

[kahlid74]

If you were to have the door slide, using a pressure switch of some kind would work great.  But, this arrangement is rotating.  If you set the pressure switch to an appropriate value such that a limb won't be severed near the bottom of the door, there's likely enough force on top of the cab next to the hinge to remove a finger real clean like!  I love the concept, but I'm wondering if you might be better off with either:

• A sliding door as suggested earlier
• Making the gap between the doors larger such that a finger or small person's arm would not be injured by a closure (~2" seems safe to me).  You can use some type of rubber molding to mate the 2 surfaces such that they still seal tightly.

This is a hobby that should be fun.  Rushing to the ER with a finger in ziplock doesn't sound fun IMO.

Thanks for the feedback!

I feel like if I used the sliding door the same issue would be present.  To prevent a swing of the door I would solidly hook it to the chassis and then it would have the same ability to lop a finger off. 

Making the gap larger kind of gets away from what I was going for with it blocking out all light from the outside world but in the end, we'll see what I can work out.

[bkenobi]

No matter how you make the door move, if it is controlled by a motor there will always be a risk of injury unless the motor is not strong enough to cause said injury.  Of course, you can have just as serious a problem with a motor that fails and allows the door to drop.  I'm not in the automobile industry, but I'm confident that there has been a lot of work done on this topic in regards to tailgates.

I saw an episode of Top Gear where they showed a Cadillac with a mechanism that would automatically latch when the trunk lid got within an inch or so of closed.  This seems like a cool feature, but they termed it the "finger amputator" (or something like that).

[kahlid74]

No matter how you make the door move, if it is controlled by a motor there will always be a risk of injury unless the motor is not strong enough to cause said injury.  Of course, you can have just as serious a problem with a motor that fails and allows the door to drop.  I'm not in the automobile industry, but I'm confident that there has been a lot of work done on this topic in regards to tailgates.

I saw an episode of Top Gear where they showed a Cadillac with a mechanism that would automatically latch when the trunk lid got within an inch or so of closed.  This seems like a cool feature, but they termed it the "finger amputator" (or something like that).

If you ever get a chance or want to dig into it, the electrical guides for the Hatch Lift gate powered mechanism are a fantastic read.  Currently, all doors have two motors, one for the lift/close action and one for the latch.  So the latch you talk about is found in every trunk that automatically closes, which are millions of cars.  I'm not saying it's not dangerous, but it's been proven to be minimal.  Minimal still doesn't remove the fact that it can occur though.

So with either resistance sensors or plane threshold sensors the clutch would break the motion of the motor in milliseconds which, if you watch it slow motion would not remove a finger but crimp/bruise it.

At the end of the day I really appreciate your feedback and it makes me re-think the design.  I still want to do this to fruition and see how it works.  Once completed I'll see how bad it really is and then work with it or re-work it.

Just a side note, machines that are super dangerous can still be prevented from causing any harm.  Just look at the sawstop.

[jammin0]

Build away man.  I think this is pretty sweet.  Instead of worrying too much about safety, simply worry about disassociating yourself with anyone who is so accident prone as to stick their finger in a closing door.  WWDS What would Darwin say.

Seriously though, make sure you get a video up as soon as that sucker is working.  Super cool idea.  I'm glad that the nearest salvage yard is 45 minutes away from me.

[bkenobi]

I agree!  Build it and let nature take it's course.  From what I'm imagining in my head, this thing should look awesome when complete.   

[lilshawn]

So with either resistance sensors or plane threshold sensors the clutch would break the motion of the motor in milliseconds which, if you watch it slow motion would not remove a finger but crimp/bruise it.

i would imagine a system properly installed in a car would monitor the amperage being drawn from the motor whilst opening or closing, if it exceeds a pre-determined threshold, the motor stops and reverses direction.

perhaps a similar setup could be employed with this motor with an amp shunt and an AVR or PIC programmed to monitor both the forward and reverse direction and choose a threshold appropriately. the ampere shunt will "output" a millivolt diference dependent on the load applied to the circuit.

example: the motor whilst opening will encounter a great increase in amp load if something gets in the way and stops it. **normally 5 amps but will spike to 11amps if obstructed**

the motor whilst closing will experience a significant drop in amp load then great increase in load. (ie pinched finger) **normally 1 amps (due to weight of door) but drops to 0.3 amps then spikes to 11 amps** this system could stop and reverse once >2 amps is seen or once the spike is seen.

[kahlid74]

Looks like your main problem will be with the area outlined in red.

Most of that length will probably just need an almost full-depth 45 degree chamfer like the diagram on the right.

If that doesn't quite clear the upper fixed edge, you can cut the edge back and use countersunk aluminum flat stock on the door to bridge the gap.



Scott

So I did this and it didn't work well enough.  So I'm probably going to have to move things a little bit and see if I can get it to function.  I didn't get much time tonight to futz with it but come Thursday I'll have lots of time.

So with either resistance sensors or plane threshold sensors the clutch would break the motion of the motor in milliseconds which, if you watch it slow motion would not remove a finger but crimp/bruise it.

i would imagine a system properly installed in a car would monitor the amperage being drawn from the motor whilst opening or closing, if it exceeds a pre-determined threshold, the motor stops and reverses direction.

perhaps a similar setup could be employed with this motor with an amp shunt and an AVR or PIC programmed to monitor both the forward and reverse direction and choose a threshold appropriately. the ampere shunt will "output" a millivolt diference dependent on the load applied to the circuit.

example: the motor whilst opening will encounter a great increase in amp load if something gets in the way and stops it. **normally 5 amps but will spike to 11amps if obstructed**

the motor whilst closing will experience a significant drop in amp load then great increase in load. (ie pinched finger) **normally 1 amps (due to weight of door) but drops to 0.3 amps then spikes to 11 amps** this system could stop and reverse once >2 amps is seen or once the spike is seen.

Interesting thoughts.  Challange is that the Clutch is on a different system than the motor.  So the clutch diengages and then the power needs to be cut from the motor, then reversed and then re-engaged.  I like what your saying thought.  Should be feasible through the arduino.

[danny_galaga]

So with either resistance sensors or plane threshold sensors the clutch would break the motion of the motor in milliseconds which, if you watch it slow motion would not remove a finger but crimp/bruise it.

i would imagine a system properly installed in a car would monitor the amperage being drawn from the motor whilst opening or closing, if it exceeds a pre-determined threshold, the motor stops and reverses direction.

perhaps a similar setup could be employed with this motor with an amp shunt and an AVR or PIC programmed to monitor both the forward and reverse direction and choose a threshold appropriately. the ampere shunt will "output" a millivolt diference dependent on the load applied to the circuit.

example: the motor whilst opening will encounter a great increase in amp load if something gets in the way and stops it. **normally 5 amps but will spike to 11amps if obstructed**

the motor whilst closing will experience a significant drop in amp load then great increase in load. (ie pinched finger) **normally 1 amps (due to weight of door) but drops to 0.3 amps then spikes to 11 amps** this system could stop and reverse once >2 amps is seen or once the spike is seen.

Oh, and with the clutch. Just had a thought. If it needs to be powered on to engage, you could hook it up to an automotive pop out circuit breaker, say 15 or 20 amps. If the hatch overloads because you got your neck stuck in there (we'll miss you Kahlid!) then it'll pop and hatch is free. Of course you'd definitely want struts because if it popped near fully open, then the lid might slam down hard.

SAAL  (simplify, and add lightness  )

[kahlid74]

The biggest thing right now is getting the door to open/close with the side part.  I'm still not 100% with what to do on this sucker.  I thought a bunch last night and had resolved to take about 1/4 to 1/3" off the problem angle but I still wonder if that would even work.  It might make more sense to just remove the side door and then redo it only phased slightly out so it can pop out.  Ugh.  I had a lot of time to think last night with the little guy up most of the night with a nasty cold.

As a side note, I've started programming the Arduino.  I'm going to actually use the rocker switch with the Arduino as a first test, so that the Arduino uses both relays (one for on/Off and one for polarity).  Once I build that into a function I'll be able to copy/paste it into the Keypad section and we should be all set.  Something I'd really like to do is have a weight sensor on the seat so when the door closes and > 75lbs is on the seat initiate ---smurfette--- Betty "Reactor Online, Sensors Online, Weapons Online, All systems nominal" through the speakers.  Only problem is I'm not sure if Arduino can do this.  So I may wind up using a Raspberry Pi with the GPIO for this.  Just something I was thinking of that would really add ambiance.

[BadMouth]

I'd make the door slightly oversized and rest on the outside of the main body.

An easy way to appease the safety police would be to join the main part of the door to the part that's being lifted by hinges on top.  Maybe sprung hinges.
The door should still stay rigid as it is being lifted, but if something gets interferes on the way when it's closing, the motor will keep moving to the closed position, but the springs on the door will keep it from crushing fingers (anymore than the weight of the door could crush fingers).

[kahlid74]

I'd make the door slightly oversized and rest on the outside of the main body.

An easy way to appease the safety police would be to join the main part of the door to the part that's being lifted by hinges on top.  Maybe sprung hinges.
The door should still stay rigid as it is being lifted, but if something gets interferes on the way when it's closing, the motor will keep moving to the closed position, but the springs on the door will keep it from crushing fingers (anymore than the weight of the door could crush fingers).

Ugh, but it's so freaking big dude.  I also would need a door slightly large than 4' tall which the limit my car can transfer at any give time.  I suppose I could try this and see how it works.  I suppose I should try it.  I'll do it Thursday when I get a good chunk of free time in the afternoon.

[Gray_Area]

I'm lost. I was lost at the outset. What the hell is this?

[kahlid74]

I'm lost. I was lost at the outset. What the hell is this?

I'll be starting a build thread soon but essentially I'm making a Battletech VR 3.0 POD with a hatch door that opens automatically via a Power Liftgate Motor.

[BadMouth]

I'd make the door slightly oversized and rest on the outside of the main body.

An easy way to appease the safety police would be to join the main part of the door to the part that's being lifted by hinges on top.  Maybe sprung hinges.
The door should still stay rigid as it is being lifted, but if something gets interferes on the way when it's closing, the motor will keep moving to the closed position, but the springs on the door will keep it from crushing fingers (anymore than the weight of the door could crush fingers).

Ugh, but it's so freaking big dude.  I also would need a door slightly large than 4' tall which the limit my car can transfer at any give time.  I suppose I could try this and see how it works.  I suppose I should try it.  I'll do it Thursday when I get a good chunk of free time in the afternoon.

Does the door have to extend to the bottom edge of the cab?  I think it would look just as good with a 5 or 6 inch sill that you have to step over to get in (think Jeep Wrangler)

[kahlid74]

I'd make the door slightly oversized and rest on the outside of the main body.

An easy way to appease the safety police would be to join the main part of the door to the part that's being lifted by hinges on top.  Maybe sprung hinges.
The door should still stay rigid as it is being lifted, but if something gets interferes on the way when it's closing, the motor will keep moving to the closed position, but the springs on the door will keep it from crushing fingers (anymore than the weight of the door could crush fingers).

Ugh, but it's so freaking big dude.  I also would need a door slightly large than 4' tall which the limit my car can transfer at any give time.  I suppose I could try this and see how it works.  I suppose I should try it.  I'll do it Thursday when I get a good chunk of free time in the afternoon.

Does the door have to extend to the bottom edge of the cab?  I think it would look just as good with a 5 or 6 inch sill that you have to step over to get in (think Jeep Wrangler)

Great question.  At some point I may in fact cut it in half, because of it's weight and stability but right now it's kind of a challange, to make it work as is.

So I reattached the door, outside and it can now move up/down with a little effort.  I also installed some screen door springs to give it some more stability from the top.  I've got the struts on order from the auto dealership and they should arrive tomorrow.  I'll try to install them over the weekend.  The junkyard wanted 10 a pop for old used ones, the dealership wanted 15 a pop but I got them down to 12 for new ones.  The dealership also ordered me 20 so I can try a bunch of different sizes and PSI and then just keep what works.  So I'm excited now to get it in.

I've begun programming the arduino.  Phase 1 is making the arduino be the brains for two relays and two arcade buttons.  When you press one button it goes one way and when you press the other it goes the opposite.  These functions in the Arduino will be re-used with the keypad.

[kahlid74]

I'm back to working on this after throwing rocks on ice and something isn't adding up mechanically.  The rear door of a minivan is in two states, up or down.  this is done by the gas struts.  Even without actually closing the door it stays down.  When pulled the gas struts push the rest of the way with no outside effort.  This behavior is NOT exhibited within the pod hatch door and I've got no clue.

So I built the whole door, and with two 40Lbs struts, part 819-5564 (Napa strut) from the dealer, the door is not held up and will slam hard down.  Even with two screen door springs on the top.  I then removed one of the 40Lbs struts with a monster strut I also got, which I'm betting was one actually used in the tailgate lift.  The problem then was the wood would bend upward and it wouldn't close/stay closed.  Even with this monster it still didn't hold it open at the top either.




So then I cut the door in half and tried the 40lbs Struts again.  Still not enough =p



I hold it up and then when I let go it comes down.  Not as hard as the full door but hard enough.  The two pieces of wood are on the sides to prevent it from slamming down.

So I'm at a loss here.  What am I not doing right with regard to Gas Struts?  Have I just not found the right lbs force ones yet or is there something amiss?

Any help/suggestions would be a huge help!

[TopJimmyCooks]

Suggest place emergency collect call to mechanical engineers in Toyota City, Japan. 

but seriously, those two stage struts are tuned to the job, door weight and geometry and custom spec'd to the nth degree.  Have you considered a sliding door?  I do know that the strut will be almost parallel with the top part of the door when closed- that's how it is in the car.  Yours is at a steep angle when closed and flat/parallel when fully open - the opposite of how it works on the minivan. 

[kahlid74]

Suggest place emergency collect call to mechanical engineers in Toyota City, Japan. 

but seriously, those two stage struts are tuned to the job, door weight and geometry and custom spec'd to the nth degree.  Have you considered a sliding door?  I do know that the strut will be almost parallel with the top part of the door when closed- that's how it is in the car.  Yours is at a steep angle when closed and flat/parallel when fully open - the opposite of how it works on the minivan.

So the angle would be different, but it would still be completely collapsed.

I have thought about a sliding door, since it is what the original Pods had and while I'm generally okay with it, I was kind of hoping to do something different/special.  Either way it's moot now with the current state it's in.

[HaRuMaN]

Your problem here is torque.  Try pushing open a heavy door near the hinges vs. near the outer edge to see what I mean.

[BadMouth]

Your problem here is torque.  Try pushing open a heavy door near the hinges vs. near the outer edge to see what I mean.

+1
beat me to it

You're working with leverage here.

[kahlid74]

Your problem here is torque.  Try pushing open a heavy door near the hinges vs. near the outer edge to see what I mean.

That makes sense.  Looking at some pictures of liftgates in cars they are a bit away from the hinges.  If it was a straight box I would be able to move the hingers to the front but because of the weird angles in the front I can't do that.

I took off the side door completely and with one 30Lbs force strut it works exactly as expected.  No slamming, no fast open, just fluid opening like a tailgate.  I'm rolling some electrical right now for a test run and then I'll post a video.

Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with the side door.

[kahlid74]

SO now I have electrical issues.  While I'm still rocking and rollign on using Arduino to control the up down I wanted to use a DPDT switch to just see how it would work.  Long story short, I can't get it to work.  it still works if I wire the motor regular or reverse polarity to the power supply but when I go through the DPDT switch it's like it gets grounded and the PS turns off and won't come back until I unplug, let sit for 20 secs and then replug.  Side note, the Clutch is plugged directly into the power supply since I don't think you're suppose to reverse polarity on the clutch right?

This is how I have the DPDT wired:


Any ideas?

[PL1]

Looks like the wiring is correct for reversing polarity.

I'm assuming that the switch is:

1. Non-illuminated
2. Momentary-Off-Momentary DPDT switch
3. Rated for the required amperage and voltage
4. The power supply +/- is connected to 1/2 and the motor is connected to 1a/2a or vice-versa.

The only other thing I can think of is to ohms check the switch separate from the wiring.

1a 2a
 1   2
1b 2b

Switch Centered
Connect one lead to 1, connect other lead to 1a, 1b, 2, 2a, and 2b.  All should read open.

Connect one lead to 2, connect other lead to 1, 1a, 1b, 2a, and 2b.  All should read open.

Switch Up
Connect one lead to 1, connect other lead to 1a.  It should read continuity.
Connect one lead to 1, connect other lead to 1b, 2, 2a, and 2b.  All should read open.

Connect one lead to 2, connect other lead to 2a.  It should read continuity.
Connect one lead to 2, connect other lead to 1, 1a, 1b, and 2b.  All should read open.

Switch Down
Connect one lead to 1, connect other lead to 1b.  It should read continuity.
Connect one lead to 1, connect other lead to 1a, 2, 2a, and 2b.  All should read open.

Connect one lead to 2, connect other lead to 2b.  It should read continuity.
Connect one lead to 2, connect other lead to 1, 1a, 1b, and 2a.  All should read open.


Scott

[BadMouth]

The switch looks wired correctly to me.
Is it rated for the amount of current you're drawing?

You wouldn't reverse polarity on the clutch, but I'd see if the switch works without the clutch hooked up as part of the troubleshooting.

Might be time to break out the relays and get a little more complicated.

[kahlid74]

Thanks for the replies guys.  The DPDT is rated for 12V at 20 AMPS so I know we're good to go on that front.  The clutch is DISCONNECTED which is where I'm guessing this is breaking down.  When I power on the PS I hear the clutch activate but the motor obviously doesn't turn on.  I'm thinking of trying the motor with the clutch connected to the UP switch and seeing if it works.  If it does, how do I wire the clutch into the DPDT while preventing it from ever reversing polarity?