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Author Topic: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions  (Read 2681 times)

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tommytutone

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How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« on: January 15, 2013, 03:44:49 pm »
I have been spending a lot of time researching, looking through FAQs and while some things never go out of date, I'm running into information that can at times be conflicting depending on when it was posted, so I'm hoping that someone can answer a couple of these questions.

Just really quick, I picked up an old Street Fighter 2 Championship cab at an auction that had been converted into a Street Fighter vs. Marvel.  I have gutted it (the monitor was shot), and someone had sticky papered most of the sides of the cabinet, the control panel is still functional (I think), but a bit rusty.  Still has the original art on it that I am going to try and keep for now.  The one big negative, and this comes from someone not very handy, there is no back door on the cabinet.

- the cab has the wonderful 6 button layout for each player that I had wanted, and I know that I wanted to add a button underneath for inserting coins, but I'm starting to wonder now how many more buttons, if any, I will need.  I'm thinking an escape button might be useful, and maybe a pause, but I also don't want to get too button happy.  I'm using Hyperspin for the software and see that most of it can be done via joystick, although, and correct me if I'm wrong, not able to escape out of a game once it is running.

- for the pc, I've read that the graphics card doesn't matter, or maybe it does, and that MAME really uses system RAM for most, if not all, of the processing.  A lot of this depends on the age of the post.  If I want to run newer games, is there benefit to a decent graphics card, and how much RAM is enough, 6gb, more? 

- I'm going to end up using an LCD computer monitor, mostly because it is easy and woodworking is NOT my forte!  I have a 19 or 20" one that is not widescreen that I have already, unless there is benefit to using a widescreen monitor.  Beyond whether or not to use a widescreen, are there any tips/guides that I did not see to building a shelf or somehow mounting it, preferably without decasing it?  I still have the monitor braces in the cab, hoping I might be able to incorporate that somehow.

Thank you!

Felsir

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2013, 04:55:37 pm »
On the topic of buttons; you can use a button as a "shift" function. So pressing combinations on the control panel do some of the admin functions you're after. (for example, coin1+coin2= escape. coin1+joyUp=mame-settings etc.) This will save you a lot of buttons on your cab.

PL1

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2013, 06:45:47 pm »
- the cab has the wonderful 6 button layout for each player that I had wanted, and I know that I wanted to add a button underneath for inserting coins, but I'm starting to wonder now how many more buttons, if any, I will need.  I'm thinking an escape button might be useful, and maybe a pause, but I also don't want to get too button happy.  I'm using Hyperspin for the software and see that most of it can be done via joystick, although, and correct me if I'm wrong, not able to escape out of a game once it is running.
If you have an encoder that supports it (I-Pac, KADE, KeyWiz), the "shift button" approach that Felsir mentioned works great especially if you want to keep it looking more like a regular cab than a MAME cab.

You can also wire the coin slot switches to the encoder to accept tokens and some people have also mounted microswitches behind the coin reject button so that you can press the coin reject to add a credit if you don't have a token handy.

The question is what admin functions do you need to be able to do?

The main ones are:
P1/P2 Start (Dedicated buttons on panel)
P1/P2 Coin (Shifted function, coin slot switch, coin reject switch)
Exit (Shifted function or esc)
Pause (Shifted function or p)
Select (P1 Button1 or enter)
Menu (Shifted function or tab)

The only down side to using shifted functions is accidently activating them during game play, especially 2 player cooperative games.

P1 Start is usually the shift button and P1 Start + P2 Start is usually exit.

If you and a friend both try to start at the same time, you exit.

If you use shifted functions, be sure to include instructions on the bezel.

- for the pc, I've read that the graphics card doesn't matter, or maybe it does, and that MAME really uses system RAM for most, if not all, of the processing.  A lot of this depends on the age of the post.  If I want to run newer games, is there benefit to a decent graphics card, and how much RAM is enough, 6gb, more? 
If you aren't going to add Visual Pinball/Future Pinball, you won't need a graphics card.

6GB of RAM seems like overkill, but if it's what you already have in there . . . :dunno

I have a 19 or 20" one that is not widescreen that I have already, unless there is benefit to using a widescreen monitor. 
The original games weren't on widescreen so a 4:3 monitor (non-widescreen) is the way to go.

With a widescreen, you waste the extra width and vertical games look really puny.

Exception: The Ninja Warriors by Taito (1987) used 3 screens to make a widescreen


are there any tips/guides that I did not see to building a shelf or somehow mounting it, preferably without decasing it?  I still have the monitor braces in the cab, hoping I might be able to incorporate that somehow.

Look for 4 holes on the back of your monitor arranged in a 100 mm square.  These are the VESA Mount holes.

Sometimes the holes are covered by a sticker.

Mount the monitor to a board then attch the board to the cab using angle brackets or cleats like this pic that Edekoning posted.



If the monitor is older than ~1997, it probably won't have mount holes and you'll need to make a shelf to hold it or use some kind of brackets to mount it.


Scott

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 08:56:36 pm »
I'm thinking an escape button might be useful, and maybe a pause, but I also don't want to get too button happy.

You can never have too many buttons or joysticks....... Never!

PL1

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 09:30:19 pm »
You can never have too many buttons or joysticks....... Never!

Never say never when there are CPs like this out there -- "bag of skittles".  :duckhunt



BTW if you look at the filename on the image -- NO RELATION TO ME.   :laugh2:


Scott

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2013, 09:31:59 pm »
"bag of skittles".

Ya gotta Taste the Rainbow!    :D

Louis Tully

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2013, 09:42:48 pm »
.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 03:15:11 pm by Louis Tully »

PL1

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2013, 09:43:19 pm »
"bag of skittles".

Ya gotta Taste the Rainbow!    :D

But this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.   :puke


Scott

Nephasth

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2013, 09:45:21 pm »

If you have an encoder that supports it (I-Pac, KADE, KeyWiz), the "shift button" approach that Felsir mentioned works great especially if you want to keep it looking more like a regular cab than a MAME cab.

I'm confused by this.  ??? 

Isn't the combination button press something that's taken care of by mapping in mame? I just map a pause button and use it as a combo "shift" button.

Pause + P1 start = exit (default Esc)
Pause + P2 start = settings (default TAB)
Pause + P1 start + P1 button 1 = reset (default F3)

MAME supports button combos, other emulators may not. Some control interfaces support a shift function which sends a completely different input to the computer when used, effectively nearly doubling the amount of inputs on the board.

Louis Tully

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2013, 09:54:00 pm »
.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 03:15:29 pm by Louis Tully »

PL1

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 09:55:59 pm »

If you have an encoder that supports it (I-Pac, KADE, KeyWiz), the "shift button" approach that Felsir mentioned works great especially if you want to keep it looking more like a regular cab than a MAME cab.

I'm confused by this.  ??? 

Isn't the combination button press something that's taken care of by mapping in mame? I just map a pause button and use it as a combo "shift" button.

Pause + P1 start = exit (default Esc)
Pause + P2 start = settings (default TAB)
Pause + P1 button 1 = reset (default F3)

There are two different approaches to take on this.

One approach is handling it within MAME like you mention -- MAME translates multiple keystrokes into one function.

The other approach is handling it at the encoder -- encoder translates multiple button presses into one keystroke.  See the right column here for the I-Pac defaults.  KADE uses the Hardware Button (HWB) input for shifted functions -- none defined in this screencap.


Both approaches suffer from the earlier mentioned problem of unintentional function activation that you don't have with dedicated buttons.


Scott
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 10:14:02 pm by PL1 »

tommytutone

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 10:54:55 pm »
This has been incredibly helpful so far, thank you!  And love the MAMEcrap page. I always though every cabinet was special in its own way but yeah there are ugly babies and there are ugly cabs.

yotsuya

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 11:58:20 pm »
Tommy-

Try 8 buttons. Or 6. Or 7. Or 5, 3, 0, or even 9.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

edekoning

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 03:08:23 am »
Just a small note about shifted buttons. These work slightly differently depending on the encoder you use. In general I would advice to never mix P1 and P2 buttons for shifted key combinations. Especially the 'P1 start + P2 start = exit' is just asking for trouble. Just stick to P1 buttons only, and either a separate shift button, or just use 'P1 Start' as shift. Also make sure you map all shifted button combinations that have no special meaning to their original keys. This makes sure that when the shift key is pressed, all of P2's buttons still work as expected. Otherwise P2 will have to wait until the shifted button is released.

jdbailey1206

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 08:45:09 am »
Tommy-

Try 8 buttons. Or 6. Or 7. Or 5, 3, 0, or even 9.

Did I hear a 9er in there?

Seith

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 02:51:36 pm »
Tommy-

Try 8 buttons. Or 6. Or 7. Or 5, 3, 0, or even 9.

 :laugh2:

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 02:59:58 pm »
Tommy-

Try 8 buttons. Or 6. Or 7. Or 5, 3, 0, or even 9.

 :laugh2:
Instant Classic.

We need glue on buttons.  So if someone tries 9 and it doesn't work well, he can easily remove one and try 8.  That'd eliminate having a hole in your CP.   ;D

tommytutone

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 03:29:27 pm »
Tommy-

Try 8 buttons. Or 6. Or 7. Or 5, 3, 0, or even 9.

I really wanted to do a good 60 or so buttons, so that I can type in commands without using a keyboard, plus have one button each for the upper and lower case of each letter.  Problem is I want each button a unique color and there just aren't enough.

Unstupid

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Re: How many buttons are enough, and other newbie questions
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2013, 04:00:14 pm »
Tommy-

Try 8 buttons. Or 6. Or 7. Or 5, 3, 0, or even 9.

I really wanted to do a good 60 or so buttons, so that I can type in commands without using a keyboard, plus have one button each for the upper and lower case of each letter.  Problem is I want each button a unique color and there just aren't enough.

You can fo different button housing and plunger color combinations...  Say you can get ahold of 8 buttons in 8 colors each (Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Pink, White, Black)  You can change the button housings to say a red housing with an orange button etc..etc... 8 buttons in 8 colors will net you 64 different color combinations... and it would look so awesome to have them all on one control panel!   :o