Silver Strike Bowling video stutter issue

[Dardoon]

Hi Everyone,

  I'm knew to the arcade community and just purchased a Silver Strike bowling 2009 machine with a Wells Gardner 27" monitor.  I have noticed that after about a minute there is a slight stutter or hiccup in the video display no matter what mode its in (attract, gameplay, etc) for roughly another minute then goes back to a smooth video display again.  I've cleaned out the computer components with no luck as well as adjusted the resolution to various settings with the same result.  Any ideas on how to correct this issue?

Thanks

[Dardoon]

Here is an update...I just unhooked the arcade monitor and plugged in a computer monitor and its doing the same thing.  So it seems to be a video card/hardware issure not a monitor issue.

[grantspain]

Yes I would say video card

[ed12]

hi
silver strike by its gamming
should be a green or red complete board with a harddrive
i would chk your power-supply,as that is the most common problem
and or chk the seating of the game rom and pic chip's
these are all in socket's and rough handling will shake them lose

ed

[Dardoon]

Thanks Ed,

  The motherboard is green and I have went through and made sure all connections are pushed in, including all USB's and SATA hard drive cable.  I'm not sure what you mean by "game ROM" and "pic chip"  I don't see any other items than the cables on the two boards (Computer and controller board).  It's just really odd that it plays fine for a minute then skips frames for another minute and keeps repeating this cycle.  I've been searching the web for over a week on this issue and haven't seen anyone with a similar issue.  This was originally a 2007 machine that was upgraded to 2009, shouldn't have anything to do with it though.

[ed12]

hi
i will chk mine
it is in the warehouse

game rom= the 1 with the name on it >silverstrike<
the pic's are 8 and 20 pin socketed ic chip's
there will be
1=8 pin ic in a socket
and 3 or 4 20 pin chip's in socket's

u have me at a loss when u say sata  harddrive drive?
as they are all shipped with a full sized  ide harddrive
unless u have a converter kit in it ?

again if u have a vom and know how to use it
chk to make sure the 5volt is stable..as the powersupply's are known to give up
due to a fan not working

your video card should be a ati or a 3dfx
dose's it have a fan?,if so is the fan working ?
as they are known to overheat

ed

[Dardoon]

I have checked all the chips and they appear to be secure.  I don't see one that says "Silver Strike" on it though.

  The video card is red and appears to be a GeForce card because it says MSI on it.  The box has 2 fans in it and both are working.  The video card does not have a fan on it.

  Thanks again for your help...this is driving me absolutely nuts!

[ed12]

hi
yes the geforce :msi: labled is another video card used by its-gamming
if it dose not have a fan on it,then put 1 on it..and tie it to the 12volt line
and see if it take's longer to freeze..
if it dose then u have a bad and orver over-heating video card
very normal
u still have me at a loss as to sata hardrive.
as i am yet to see 1 of them in a silver strike,but i can tell u if it is indeed a sata drive
then resecure the sata plug..as it will tend to work it's way free
 u never answered me on the powersupply
this question must answered,as it is hard to tell u exactley where to look
unless u do

ed

[Dardoon]

I'll have to get a tester to test the power supply as I do not have one.  The game starts to skip a couple frames every 3 seconds roughly a minute after the game cranks up..then after a minute the game plays smoothly then does it again a minute later.  I would suspect that if the video card was over heating then it wouldnt be in that predictable pattern..but then again, I'm not the expert

I'll try to get some pictures up of the hardware tomorrow as well.

Thanks again!

[Dardoon]

Here is an image of the video card

[Dardoon]

Here is an image of the computer

[Dardoon]

The 5 volt was pin was reading steady at 4.94.

[ed12]

hi
ok thk-u
in your case it IS NOT a its-gamming board
but rather a regular coumpter,first thing i would do is shove a fan on the video card
then i would reset your ram stick's,ie take them out and clean the header pin's,
yes i c it is a sata drive,i would chk to make sure the sata plug's stay tight..
from there u could swap the video card out
there is other advanced test's u could do,but i would start there

ed

[Dardoon]

Thanks again Ed.  I have cleaned the RAM and video card and made sure all connections are secure.  I've also swapped out the RAM just to see if that component might be causing the hiccup.  Short of putting a fan on the video card or swapping it out (I don't currently have those parts) what other tests can I do?  I went through all the diagnostics in the system settings.

If I were to swap the video card out, what would you recommend and am I going to have issues with drivers if I do that?

[ed12]

hi
before i tred down the swap out road,i need to ask a question
is it window's based or linux.i am betting window's..if so u should have a system32
and system folder's in your root window's..if so then when u get a new video card u just place in the driver's,if linux based..there is a post i responed to a op on this board,with a short list of card's that will drop right in

ed

[Dardoon]

Its linux

[lilshawn]

when we have issues with these its computers (silver strike/golden tee/bags) usually there is either:

- a bloated capacitor on the video card or motherboard (top not flat but domed)
- bad power supply
- bad harddrive

sometimes just reloading the software can cure the stuttering. the computers are so random.

if you have a spare power supply, give that a try first. while your in there check the caps.



the 2 on the left are good the one on the right is bloated.

[Dardoon]

Thanks,

  The capacitors look good.  I'm going to get a golden tee video card and swap it out with mine tomorrow to see if that fixes the issue.  If not I'll have to try another approach.  Will let you know the results

[lilshawn]

probably not going to work. The OS is stripped down of all but the installed drivers needed to operate. it needs to be MSI GeForce MX4000 card in order to work. even most variants of the 4000 card won't work.

if it was a bad videocard the screen would be corrupted/freezing/rebooting.

try the power supply first

maybe even throw a new stick of ram in there. more is always better.

enter...the leaning tower of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---

[Dardoon]

hmm..well thats good to know.  The guy I was going to get the video card from is who I bought it from and he is an hour away from me.  I have already swapped the RAM with a new stick with the same result.  I've also checked the power supply with a multimeter and it read fine. 

[ed12]

hi
not trying to step on toes here
but there 3-4 varinet's of the msi card that will work
i posted this already
second he say's the 5volt is stable ?
and thk-u for the cap's pic that should serv as a reminder to all ppl here what to look for ,however now i am leaning toward's a bad !mbr! on the sata,why on god's green earth someone would shove a sata into a ide space is beyound me..
silverstrike olny need's 10meg to run sata's start at 160gig or so
that is alot of unused head room....but back on track
i personally think the sata need's to have it's interigity chked
which is easy enough to do,if the op has a spare putter that will drive a sata,they can slave that drive >the 1 in question<,and run defrag to sort it out
or they can run >easeus< to look at the parition and repair if nessary
HOWEVER DO NOT REPAIR IT IN WINDOWS,use the drive's native lanuage
ie linux.that is about as clear a mud for most ppl i understand,but is but this time

ed

[lilshawn]

the original drive in the SSB/bags/GT machines are hitachi (formerly IBM) Deskstar 80gb SATA drives. also known in our circle as the DEATHstar. when they work, they work, when they don't, they get flakey.

SSB has some drive testing diagnostics in the service menu, run them both and see what it says.

re-installing these systems onto new drives is notoriously difficult. (though not impossible, it just has some security/software issues) basically you have to clone an old version of the software onto a drive and then UPGRADE the drive to the version it is supposed to be so the CID (cabinet ID) gets written to the software. It's a PITA. IT doesn't supply any re-installation software only upgrades, so you can't  just reinstall. otherwise you wouldn't have to buy a harddrive directly from IT...for 3x what it's worth.

we have a GTL 2012 that the harddrive crapped out... all we had was a clone of a 2009 drive. had to copy that... then install 2010...2011...2012. the software for 2012 will only install on a 2011 of a particular version...the 2011 will only install on a 2010 of a particular version and so on. after that hassle i cloned the 2012 so if it happens again i and just clone it again since it's now properly tied to the CID.

you may be able to use a cloning program to clone the drive you have...but there is no way to be 100% sure the info you pull from the deathstar is not going to be a tiny bit corrupted...since you are having issues.

it can't hurt to have a clone of the drive stored away anyways.

[Dardoon]

Thanks lilshawn,

  I pulled the HD out and this is the original Hitachi HD in the Nighthawk box ( there was a Nighthawk sticker over the screws to get the drive out). The guy who sold it to me told me those were the new boxes IT was putting in the Bags/SSB/GT games.  I don't have a linux box to defrag the HD, only a windows PC.  I'll try sticking   a bigger stick of RAM in the box to see if that will work, but with my limit equipment here....it's starting to look like I'm screwed.

[ed12]

hi
deathstar..yup yup
and to colning u will have a biatch of a time
1,2,3 up to system id..it is hard go to say the least
i would do a few step's first
test drive in windose >slave< to chk to make sure the mbr is ok
u DO NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING TO IT BUT CHK IT
to bad u do not run linux ?,but is but
i do not know your operating system or i could suggest a few linux program's for u that will run under winblow's platfourm
i just need to know the >o/s< ie 98'/xp/7
as u state it is a nighthawk..then your problem will not be ram
it will be in the harddrive,they were a nightmare
hence the reason its-gamming up-dated there golden tee live to a higher and better harddrive

ed

[Dardoon]

The onboard hard drive tests checked out ok....  I hooked up the drive to my win 7 computer and all partitions looked healthy.  Ive clocked the stutter...the game runs smooth for 1 min 20 secs then drops a few frames every 2-3 seconds for a solid minute.  Once the frame rate resumes it goes back to the problematic state 1 min 20 seconds again....the circle of life.

[lilshawn]

the system keeps a log, it might be having issues reading/writing to the section of the hard drive the log is on.

i'm not one to rule anything else out though.

if you can, clone the drive onto another one.

hdclone by miray has been good for me, it's slow but it's free, if you have a preference for norton or something go ahead an do that.

any size drive should work, just keep the partitions the same size and don't try to allocate any of the slack to any of the partitions and it should be fine.

[ed12]

hi

lilshawn
100% correct

here is a fast test for u
seeing as the full system id is kept in 1 harddrive
i am of the thought maybe u could just use it in another mobo,and see what it dose
with that said i am still leaning toward's a bad mbr and or a secter problem
sata's that are 80-120 gig are noted for it
heat is not there friend,and by freezing
i wish u could upload a few pic's of this.?,but atleast u now have a time line to work with


ed

[Dardoon]

I have a couple questions then if I go down cloning the hard drive route. 

1.  Is there a specific hard drive that you recommend?
2.  Is it possible to clone the hard drive on a windows PC?  My motherboard only appears to have 2 SATA ports for a master and a slave.  I don't know if this will pose a problem cloning the drive or if I'll have to find a location to do it for me.


I'll work on getting a video put together of the issue today for you to see exactly what I'm seeing..  Should have it up later today.

Once again, I appreciate all your guys help on this.  If your ever in the Cleveland area, drinks are on me 

[lilshawn]

with HD clone you can rip a copy of the drive onto your computer then switch the drive, boot up and rip the data to a new drive.

you just have to be sure you have 80gb of space available because the data doesn't get compressed or anything.

hd clone is a windows program but doesn't care what's on the drive it just copies bit for bit.

[Dardoon]

Any particular HDD you guys recommend picking up?

  Here is a video of my issue.  I did two separate takes and merged them into 1 video to show you in game and leader board scrolling.  I tried to point out where the jitters happen, hopefully they came through ok so you can see what I'm seeing.  The first video is right around the 1:20 minute mark where the second one starts right after the boot screen (which I think shows the frame skip better)

[lilshawn]

anything SATA really. I wouldn't go crazy and buy a 2 or 3 terabyte drive or anything. if you have an old (but still serviceable) 120gb or 250gb hd, that would work. anything equal to or greater in size to the original will work just fine.

smaller drives...not so much. the total data on the SSB is only 8-10gb in size but messing the partitions to make smaller drives work is a real crap shoot. I've only had a very small handful work. on any machines.

i have a whole mess of 80gb SATAs that have been pulled from touchscreen jukeboxes after we upgraded to 500gb drives a while back. i just use those. they are still perfectly good, they just became too small. use them in megatouch machines....big buck hunter...golden tee's...whatever. I have them, might as well use them up. if they crap out i just grab another.

I have a 2tb drive i use to keep drive images that i re-clone drives with. Makes things super easy. Nfl blitz 99  crapped out? I burn the image to a new HD, drive out swap it and done.  ta da!

[ed12]

hi
right
DO NOT MESS WITH THE ORINGAL SIZE,UNLESS U TRULY KNOW YOUR WAY AROUND

lilshawn
gave u some soild advice follow it
to bad u do not have the oringial disk's ?
u could load in a fresh harddrive and reload the program's
from what i seen u have 3 dif type's of silver strike there
and as it is a blackhawk surely its-gamming offer's the disk at a very good price ?
if u did not get the resuce disk with it ?.,as this disk will repair the parition
and clean the crap out of the mbr at the same time
if it turn's out your hd is crap it tell's u alot of trick's
a=make a back-up >smaller sata's tend to crap out<
b=rough handle-ing
c=to many power surge's kick's them in the arse also

ed

[Dardoon]

Thanks.  I have the 2009 update disk.  Common sense tells me that I'll need more than that or will that suffice?  I just checked Incredible Technologies site and they stated you can only order update disks....I don't see anything for an original install.  Mine was originally 2007.

Thanks again!

[lilshawn]

that was the problem...they where UPDATE DISKS.

you need to have the previous version already installed in order for it to work.

they basically WANT you to buy an new harddrive from them.

[Dardoon]

so would the update disc be considered a "rescue disk"?

[lilshawn]

no they want you to buy a new drive from them, so they have control.

I don't understand why, you must have a CID to install it...and being linux they should have to release the software and source code for free since shouldn't it fall under the GPL? 

anyways, the only disks they have available for the machines are upgrades to the next version.

if you had say a 2007 version and an upgrade for 2009...you couldn't do it because you would boot up the computer with the 2009 update...it checks your version installed and says "nope can't do it, you need to have 2008 to install this"

the whole way they do stuff is really ef'd up.

...like how they buy runs of old videocards and setup the software so you have to buy them from IT for 10x their value.

really the only way around their stupidity/security is to have a clone of the previuos version, because the upgrade software doesn't check the CID of the original software...it installs then reads the CID then burns the CID into the software on the harddrive.

so basically I exploit a small oversight in their security.

[smartbomb2084]

Is this a dedicated Incredible Technologies cabinet ?

That looks like a NIGHTHAWK computer from IT.

I had a go 'round a while back with jumpy video on a SILVER STRIKE and, believe it or not, the problem was the game trying to 'call in' and update even though it is no longer an 'online' game using SPRINT Wireless technology,

Disabliing the online feature solved the problem..

This was a direct suggestion from the IT tech department.

[Dardoon]

It is dedicated.  How do you disable the online option?  I tried going through the service options but couldnt find anything.  I'm still waiting for a SATA drive to try cloning the hard drive.

Thanks

[Dardoon]

I also noticed that the vegas bowling mode has been disabled with a N/A .  Is there a way to get this option available without having this online with IT (Im assuming its only available when connected to IT).

[Dardoon]

I finally got the new hard drive....I did the clone and when I put it into the SSB all it did was post this afer the IT splash:

"L 99 99 99 99 99 99 99..." etc...

Any idea whats going on?