Video Game crash of 1983

[TJCOMBO]

Having never experienced it, was the crash in 1983 really that bad?  How did you guys survive? Yars Revenge and Pitfall?

[SavannahLion]

My personal memories are of a glut of catridges coupled with a mentality that carried over well into the XEGS line. I was a moron back then. You were able to buy a full shoebox of 2600 games for around $5. That kind of mentality existed with the XEGS where one could buy (used) a full 1/3 of the library for less than the price of a brand new game.

When Nintendo brought us the NES, a lot of parents had no interest in buying another piece of "crap". So we had to do some cut throat things to get the new breed. At the time, I had limited knowledge  of the big N. But I was far more familiar with the Fuji so I shelled out $200-300 for XEGS. To a kid, that represented a lot of holiday cards (mowing lawns was not an option, noone had a yard) only to get crazy flak from mom and dad. Yeah, I was stupid.

Review magazines for the new generation were critical, getting bit by craptastic games  was still a risk and getting a refund back then was a little more complicated (no barcodes so receipts was a must).

Arcades weren't affected much that I recall. But I grew up in an area where cab turnover rate was very very low and would stay that way until the introduction of SFII.

[yotsuya]

It's funny- I saw the same thing as SavannahLion, but we thought it was cool when we could get a new game for a buck. We didn't realize a crash was going on.

[Gatt]

I was pretty young,  I remember the poor quality high profile games (Pac-man,  ET) on the 2600.  I remember cartridges suddenly becoming cheap.  I guess I was too young to realize the flow of new games just stopped.

A couple of years later,  the C64 hit the scene,  and did quite well.  TBH,  the "Crash" really wasn't all that noticeable IMO.  I'd argue that what's happening right now is a far bigger crash than 1983.

[ahofle]

I honestly don't remember noticing anything.  Even after the 'crash' there were still about 20 times as many arcades around as there are now.  I only remember a couple of small arcades in strip malls closing down, but they were still everywhere else (restaurants, malls, family entertainment places, etc.  I actually think there were a number of good games produced during those years (mid to late eighties).  Atari System 1 and 2 comes to mind.

[mgb]

I don't really remember even knowing there was a crash at the time. I was 10 in 83 and I didn't even realize that pacman for the 2600 sucked. we played and we enjoyed it.
And through 84 and 85 we went on playing games and loving them.
I still remember being introduced to Jumpman on my friends c64 and I think that even if all other games went away, I would be fine as long as I can play Jumpman.

[wp34]

I remember very distinctly sitting in my room the first time I fired up Donkey Kong on the Colecovision and thinking now I can stop bugging my parents to take me to the Nickelodeon Arcade.  Of course I did keep bugging them.   

We still had several thriving arcades into the early 90's in this area so I really didn't notice a "crash".  The main thing I noticed was a glut of fighting games.  But that was a bit of a golden age for pinball so I played a lot of pinball in college.

[mgb]

Remember though the crash was in 83 and things started coming back up after nes and things were going pretty well with the fighters in the 90s

[SavannahLion]

It's funny- I saw the same thing as SavannahLion, but we thought it was cool when we could get a new game for a buck. We didn't realize a crash was going on.

Don't get me wrong, I thought it was cool. I just wasn't smart enough to suck those games up like a 80's cocaine addict. With the introduction of eBay and the retro-demand for some of those games, I would have easily made back the money and then some.

It was so  bad, I was once offered a full office-sized box of choice 2600/7800 games for free. I didn't have either at the time so I turned it down. 

[yotsuya]

Don't get me wrong, I thought it was cool. I just wasn't smart enough to suck those games up like a 80's cocaine addict.

It was so  bad, I was once offered a full office-sized box of choice 2600/7800 games for free. I didn't have either at the time so I turned it down. 

There was a kiosk at a long-since bulldozed mall that sold Atari games for a great deal. I remember getting Moon Patrol for $4. I got my $4 out of that sucker that very day, and then some. I also picked up Real Sports Baseball for a buck, and that was a great sports game.

We got games like Chopper Command, Kangaroo, Battlezone, Frogs & Flies, Activision Skiing and so on for $0.50 EACH at a long-since demolished Revco. Of course, we also picked up turds like Swordquest, so what did we know.

[RandyT]

I don't know... I've heard an awful lot of griping from oldsters about how Atari kept releasing the same games every 2 years on a new system and abandoning the old one.  Factual or not, it was a popular sentiment.

I guess I am technically an "oldster", and never had that particular gripe.  I had plenty of gripes, just not that one.  Technology was advancing rapidly at that time.  Once market demand was established, and the example of what a successful home gaming console looked and acted like was easily observed, the big corporate players of the time tried to outdo one another.  Every new technological advancement led to advances in the games for the systems, and eventually, new systems.  It was all about jockeying for market position.  Companies like Atari had a rough time of it.  Consumers were not ready to accept that investments in expensive gaming systems, and the games, would so quickly dwindle in value.  They expected the games to get better for the systems they already owned, not realizing the technical limitations.  Enterprising 3rd party developers learned ways to squeeze more from the 2600 than even the designers realized was possible.  Eventually, 1st party titles caught up and this kept consumers happy...and the system alive longer.  But there was a downside.  Games which pushed the system required more development time, and the bean counters didn't like that one bit.  Focus was placed on selling games through marketing techniques (E.T. anyone?), and getting them on the shelves quickly.  3rd party developers started crawling out of the woodwork, and the consumers, hungry for new games, bought a lot of really poor ones, which lead to a loss of faith in the marketplace.  They couldn't even rely on 1st party titles to be safe bets, because they had been burned a number of times by them as well.  Even those who had moved on to other systems saw poor support in the way of new titles, poorly performing control implementations, short system life and high costs.   The loss of faith and consumer uncertainty was responsible for a large percentage of the mainstream market giving up on the idea entirely.  With the 7800, Atari sought to bring those consumers back into the fold through backward compatibility with the 2600, but it was too late.

The hardcore gamers of the time welcomed every new version of the arcade classics, as each one brought them closer to the true arcade experience.  But there just weren't enough of those folks to sustain the market.  Most of those folks eventually turned to computer gaming, with primarily the C-64 and eventually Amiga computers filling the void until Nintendo and Sega made console gaming attractive to a new mainstream gaming market.

Honestly, I could see it all when it was happening, and happily bought discounted systems and games when the bottom fell out.  I paid attention to magazines (the only real source of information at the time) and knew which to avoid.  The aftermath was a great time for true enthusiasts with little money to spend.

It's a different world today, and developers who put out garbage aren't able to get away with it as easily as they could back then.  An educated and informed marketplace, which holds developers and system makers to higher standards, and an ingrained acceptance of eventual obsolescence as a condition of participating in, what is now, a very common pastime, is what is responsible for keeping a crash of the same magnitude from occurring today.

[chiLLbiLLy]

Like most others, I didn't realize at the time when games were being marked down, that it was a "crash".  In fact, I've always pinned the crash more as 1984, rather than 1983.  I don't recall seeing the extreme markdowns on home console cartridges until at least a few months into 1984.  But I was thrilled at the time to be able to pick up Colecovision games for $5 bucks a pop, rather than the usual $30 to $40.

And, I don't really recall seeing much difference in the arcades at all.  Sure, a few of the lessers ones folded up eventually by 1985, but most of the ones in my area, at that time (Arlington, Texas) were going strong, well into the late 80's and early 90's.  Now if you want to talk quality of the arcade games, that's another story, but that's probably more personal preference than anything.  Needless to say, pinball certainly kept going strong throughout the 80's and well into the 90's, once the arcades really started to falter.  But honestly, I never knew there was really a "video game crash", until many years after the fact.

[alfonzotan]

It didn't really look like a crash if you were a teenager... the arcades stayed open for many years afterwards (there was still a well-stocked Alladin's Castle at the mall when I started college in 1987, and plenty of games in pool halls, student unions, etc.).  As for console games, they got a lot cheaper, which was great from a kid's perspective.  I remember buying a Starpath Supercharger and most of the games available for it for a total of maybe $15--at a retail store, not a garage sale.

In the business, I'm sure it looked like a real crash that happened all at once.  Out in the sticks, it was slow-motion.  Atari just fell out of favor thanks to being old technology with a stuffed supply of redundant games (from Atari and the other software vendors as well).  Intellivision and ColecoVision software died on the vine (sadly) pretty quickly, though.  But lots of people just shifted over to computers for their games in the interim between Atari and Nintendo.

[vanrose72]

I was 7 in '83 and I didn't even realize that E.T. for the 2600 sucked.

I had a deep collection of other Atari carts to dig through, too, so I stayed fairly occupied.

[Haze]

I guess it was a very american thing, growing up in the 80s over here in the UK I'd say if anything it was the best / most exciting period for games and computing I've known.  Had my classic 8-bit computer systems as a kid, massive selection of cheap but good games from a large range of publishers, machines where if you tinkered enough with them and were willing to put in the effort you could create stuff on par with what was in the shops etc. (which is exactly what people were doing)  There was strong competition and you lived or died by the quality of your games.

I'm sure there was a crash, but IMHO the reasons given are bogus, and were simply used to force stuff like the NES lockout chips upon us which weren't about 'protecting the consumer from crap games to avoid another crash' but more about locking out cheap competition and keeping prices high so that money could be squandered on big budget projects with no consequence.

You're seeing the same now tho, the medium to big studios are struggling, and trying to sell games for £40 on a mobile gaming device when you can pick up just as playable, just as fun and twice as original indie games / apps for £2 on a phone just doesn't work so I kinda expect another 'crash' any day now.

[Trip]

I'm sure there was a crash, but IMHO the reasons given are bogus, and were simply used to force stuff like the NES lockout chips upon us which weren't about 'protecting the consumer from crap games to avoid another crash' but more about locking out cheap competition and keeping prices high so that money could be squandered on big budget projects with no consequence.

There was definitely a crash in the USA and it had nothing to do with NES.  You could say NES resurrected the video game industry because they werent even around in the US when this happened and they got the market profitable again, which is why they protected themselves with stuff like lockout chips and only allowing 3rd party companies to a few games a year.

The industry went from 3 billion dollars a year to 100 million a year.  Stores started refusing to sell video games because they were losing money badly on stock they couldn't move.  Nintendo had a hell of a time getting them to start carrying them again.

A lot of knockoffs, overproduction, too fast turnover of next gen consoles, very low sales, combined with terrible games made the US consumer stop buying them.

[Necro]

I was 5 and loving the Atari 2600 we had just gotten maybe a year before...so...zero effect on me.  They still sold games in Toys R Us and Kiddie City, and I remember getting one game that came with an extra keypad (a space shooter thing) that was just WAY too complicated for me at that age that we returned.  I think I got Taz or something else that I ended up loving. 

Given, I didn't get a NES until near the end of it's life-cycle though.

[SavannahLion]

Trip, Nintendo has been making (card) games since 1889, Sony wasn't even established until 1946. Nintendo most certainly had an existence in the U.S. at that time, I have Nintendo carts for the 2600 as the proof.

[mgb]

Yeah maybe Trip is wrong about nintendo having no presence in the us in 83. We know because we were all playing DK. But he's still correct about how it went down with a market flooded with crap games that wouldn't sell. And Nintendo bassically did save the day with the nes.
But the crash wasn't some kind of corperate conspiricy in order to lockout programmers and all that. And even though Nintendo has been around for over a hundred years. They wernt in the us market all that time until the videogame craze.

[Trip]

Trip, Nintendo has been making (card) games since 1889, Sony wasn't even established until 1946. Nintendo most certainly had an existence in the U.S. at that time, I have Nintendo carts for the 2600 as the proof.

Didn't spell it out clear enough, sorry.  Nintendo as a company had stuff here, but the NES didn't appear til 85 in the US.  Like October 85 for the holiday season if I remember right.  Famicom came out in Japan in like 83 though.  I meant to say NES wasn't around in 83.  Nintendo was definitely in the states before that.

[SavannahLion]

I've always wondered about that mgb. The U.S. had a reasonably sized Asian population whom the U.S. threw in to "camps" during WWII. Nintendo didn't have a regional office here then but how many of their cards were imported into the country?  American troops often carried playing cards wherever they went, I just find it astonishing Japanese immigrants would not have done the same.

@Trip, that's a better statement.

[yotsuya]

They still sold games in Toys R Us and Kiddie City, and I remember getting one game that came with an extra keypad (a space shooter thing) that was just WAY too complicated for me at that age that we returned.

Star Raiders for life, yo!

[Necro]

Yeah.  I regretted returning it a few months later.

[yotsuya]

I STILL have a boxed Star Raiders in my shed. I loved that game, although it all honesty, it really didn't need the keypad.

There's an Activision game called Starmaster that was the same basic game without the maps that was just as fun.

And I know I was just a dumb kid who loved everything Atari/video game related, but I loved playing Pac-Man on the 2600. I was surprised recently when I read that the game was criticized when it came out.  As a kid, I never had the expectation that the Atari version of any game would look as good as the arcade version- maybe that's why it didn't bother me as much? 

Confession: Once I learned that E.T. was a puzzle game and not an action/adventure game, I enjoyed the heck out of it.

[Ravenger]

Here in the UK we didn't really have a video game crash. What happened instead was the rise of low cost microcomputers like the Sinclair ZX81 and Spectrum, (sold as the Timex/Sinclair 1000 and 2000 in the US), Commodore VIC 20 and C64, which rapidly took over from the VCS, Intellivision and other consoles.

The games were cheaper as they were on cassete tape, and you had the excuse that your parents would buy you a computer for 'educational use' but you ended up playing games on it all the time anyway! One of the reasons the UK became one of the major producers of video game software is that kids experimented with the machines and made their own games.

The NES didn't get much of a look-in. It wasn't until the SNES and Megadrive that console gaming became popular again.

I worked in a computer store in the early 80's, selling Atari 8 Bit, MSX, VCS, Intellivision, Colecovision, Vectrex and later the Atari ST computers. I remember when the order came down to discount all the Vectrex machines and software as MB was pulling out of video games. My boss at the time said that in the US it was a flop because it was considered by the markets as 'too expensive for a hand-held toy'.  My biggest regret was being on a minimal wage at the time which meant I couldn't afford to buy any of the Vectrexes or games. It's one of my all-time favourite machines (I love vector games) and I completely missed my chance of getting a machine and the entire catalogue for a cheap price. 

[Thenasty]

Did not really notice. I just got myself the C64 (seen the a2600 graphics, ewww.) cause graphics was better.

This is when I got addicted to COPYing    (any1 remember RENEGADE for C64 ?)

[Arimack]

  I never owned an Atari 2600 as a child because parents could not afford it back then.  I did have friends who owned either it or an Atari 400 when they first came out.  I played a ton of it because there was nothing else other than going to a real arcade. 
  My main experience during the crash was that my family finally got a system to play video games on thanks to Texas Instruments.  My folks bought a TI-99/4A for Christmas that year thanks to a $100 rebate that let us buy it for $99 on sale at Sears.  It ended up being orphaned that next year during the crash, 1983.  I think we had five games for it.  Great choice Mom and Dad!
  But as for gaming, my friends who had the Ataris quickly moved on to the Commodore 64 around that time. For the next five years or so, we played exclusively on the Commodore.  I went to college in 1987 and took my Commodore with me.   I was not really too aware of Nintendo in college (I think most people my age thought of it as a kids system).  Then I ended up buying a Sega Genesis in 1990 (the adult system as it was marketed then!) 
  So I think the crash was not really that noticeable to most kids at the time.  Atari 2600/Coleco/Intellivision just became old hat and went to the bargain bin.  No one was playing them anymore.  We did not really pay attention to the economics of the thing.  Honestly, it just became the old system and there was better stuff out there.  There were not a lot of dedicated video game stores out there so it disappeared from the catalog for Sears and JC Penny and new stuff replaced it.  I mean who wanted to play a bad copy of PacMan on the 2600 when you could play UltimaIV/Beachhead/Impossible Mission/Archon/etc on a Commodore....with the same controls plus a keyboard!
  I think most of us did not notice that everything got so cheap because we were all looking at the next shiny thing on the screen and did not notice the crash.  Plus we still had video arcades to go to!

[RandyT]

I STILL have a boxed Star Raiders in my shed. I loved that game, although it all honesty, it really didn't need the keypad.

When I finally scraped together enough money for an Atari 400 (my first actual computer), Star Raiders and Pac-Man were the two games I ordered with it.  When I first booted Star Raiders, I was in heaven, and Pac Man, compared to the 2600 version, was fantastic.  It was that moment I knew what the future held and my quarters started flowing toward buying games, instead of into the arcades (well...some quarters still went to the arcades, just not as many  )

Here in the UK we didn't really have a video game crash. What happened instead was the rise of low cost microcomputers like the Sinclair ZX81 and Spectrum, (sold as the Timex/Sinclair 1000 and 2000 in the US), Commodore VIC 20 and C64, which rapidly took over from the VCS, Intellivision and other consoles.

I lived in Germany (stationed there by the US Army) from late '83 to '87.  I have to say, it was the same there.  Consoles just didn't have the same following as they did in the US, and arcades never took off to the same extent.  But it was a great time to be there, as it seemed that folks weren't just playing games, but getting very involved in development of both hardware and software, at the smallest of scales.  I still remember riding a train to a city hours away to buy an inexpensive MIDI interface kit from a guy who had designed his own and was selling them from his small apartment.  There were a lot of items out there you had to know someone, who knew someone else, in order to find.  Different days.

[yotsuya]

I STILL have a boxed Star Raiders in my shed. I loved that game, although it all honesty, it really didn't need the keypad.

When I finally scraped together enough money for an Atari 400 (my first actual computer), Star Raiders and Pac-Man were the two games I ordered with it.  When I first booted Star Raiders, I was in heaven, and Pac Man, compared to the 2600 version, was fantastic.  It was that moment I knew what the future held and my quarters started flowing toward buying games, instead of into the arcades (well...some quarters still went to the arcades, just not as many  )

So when can we expect the USB Groovy StarRaidersWiz??? I'd like to preorder. 

[PL1]

So when can we expect the USB Groovy StarRaidersWiz??? I'd like to preorder. 

I don't know if Randy's got anything in the development pipeline, but Degenatron is talking seriously about adding keypad support to his KADE/AVR encoder. (Matrix encoder support)  Atari 2600 keypad support is at the top of the layout list I compiled for him.


Scott

[RandyT]

If you have 5 buttons on your panel, that's enough for the 2600 version.  No need for a special keypad controller, unless you really want one.  The 400 version has about 21 buttons for controlling the game, so you might as well use a keyboard for that one.

[Necro]

Well, you and someone else get on that.  Not so much because we need the product, but I want to see a thread where you and someone else debate whose pad is better and why. 

[Trip]

Well, you and someone else get on that.  Not so much because we need the product, but I want to see a thread where you and someone else debate whose pad is better and why. 

hahahhaahha lol

[PL1]

Well, you and someone else get on that.  Not so much because we need the product, but I want to see a thread where you and someone else debate whose pad is better and why. 

LOL.  Haven't seen a good Randy vs. Andy knock-down-drag-out thread in a while. 

The reason I asked Degenatron about matrix encoder support is because Tony Silveira is adding flipover keypads on his system.  When DaOld Man looked at the keypads that Tony was planning on using, he noticed that they needed a matrix encoder.  When I looked around, the only ones I could find were Hagstrom (very expensive) or one made by a flight sim guy.    Tony ended up buying new keypads that don't require a matrix encoder.

I know that matrix encoders suck for most gaming applications because of the ghosting issues with multiple button presses, but they are useful for some functions like some of the old console controllers (Atari 2600/5200, ColecoVision, Intellivision, etc.), jukeboxes, or maybe even the infamous Sundance.


[/thread derail]


Scott

[RandyT]

Or one could just buy this, or any of the many like it,  and call it a day. 

There's a reason why keypads built into controllers went the way of the dodo.  With the notable exception of Star Raiders, there weren't enough games to justify the purchase, and controllers like those sold with the ColecoVision and Intellivision, were almost universally panned by players.  Nothing is less fun than holding onto something you don't need, while knowing it's inclusion just made the controller more difficult to use.  One of the first things I did after getting my ColecoVision was run wires to the joystick (term used loosely) PCB, drilled a hole in the back and mounted them to the surface of my arcade panel.  Used a WICO leaf arcade stick instead.

And just to keep this on topic, I'll add keypads to the list of things which contributed to the video game crash of '83 

[ark_ader]

My main experience during the crash was that my family finally got a system to play video games on thanks to Texas Instruments.  My folks bought a TI-99/4A for Christmas that year thanks to a $100 rebate that let us buy it for $99 on sale at Sears.  It ended up being orphaned that next year during the crash, 1983.  I think we had five games for it.  Great choice Mom and Dad!

I got a TI 99/4A too with the $100 rebate, and got the tape cassette player with the change.  Spent all summer working at my Dad's shop saving up for the Expansion box with a floppy, CPM and voice box.  I just loved that computer.  1983 crash wasn't that big a deal.  I know Sega Centers were being bought out by Time Out, but every arcade in Los Angeles was in full swing.  Things started to taper off in 1988 and we started seeing arcade machines selling for $200-400.  About the time the NES started getting all the attention.

Yeah the 2600 cartridges were selling at $59.00 (Donkey Kong for example)  in 1983 but the year later you could go to Toys R Us and buy a bunch for $20.  About the same time Dinky Toys made by Mecanno was going out of business and I was buying up all their old stock for $5 a toy.  Now they go for $300.  I wonder how much that ET 2600 cartridge is worth today?  I remember my best 2600 cartridge: The Empire Strikes Back.  That game was so cool.  Yars too.

[alfonzotan]

They still sold games in Toys R Us and Kiddie City, and I remember getting one game that came with an extra keypad (a space shooter thing) that was just WAY too complicated for me at that age that we returned.

Star Raiders for life, yo!

Word.  Maybe the best ported game ever on the 2600 (it originated on the Atari 8-bit computers).

[teeuwen]

I bought a Ti 99/4a at a garage sale for like $20 in 1992ish.  Turns out there was quite a weird and vibrant collector community in Dallas and they had figured out how to install hard drives and such.  I guess someone wrote a word processing program that allowed you to save files on a diskette and take them back and forth with another program on a DOS computer.  Recall them insisting you were basically getting a 286 computer for virtually nothing.

Who knows... but it was kind of fun to tinker with.

My first computer was a Ti 99/4a, the delorian of computers with its stainless steels case elements. I bought mine in 1998, it had the voice expansion module i believe aswell, I never had a computer growing up and though i had used better computer previous to owning the ti 99/4a and owned a Nintendo and a super nintendo previously to owning the Ti 99/4a it was my first computer, full keyboard and all, i believe i was 12 or 13 at the time when i bought it from a friends garage sale, i think i paid $20 aswell.

The Ti 99/4a's life ended pretty roughly though, the short of the long story would envolve my dad getting mad at me for something and then proceeding to shot put my ti 99 and tv monitor off our patio and over the fence into the back alley.

I would love to get another one though!

[Namco]

At my house we got an Odyssey 2, so no cheap $1 games for us. We had to drive up to Zody's department store to pick out a new game for $39.99. If there was a bargain bin full of games, I never saw one. But then again my parents weren't all that excited about taking us out to spend money on home video games consoles. 

Then one day we heard that the Odyssey was discontinued and that was it. I do recall seeing all the Atari clones appearing in TV commercials and remember being confused by it all and noticing the drop in quality of the games. The rift between arcade graphics and Atari clone graphics was huge and widening. I was happy just going with my parents to the bowling lanes where I could play real arcade games.  I remember seeing Pac-Man coming out and laughing at how much it the graphics sucked. We were playing K.C. Munchkin at home and having a blast.

It would be a few years later before the NES came out and upon seeing how arcade perfect Super Mario Bros. was, practically literally BEGGED my mother to buy us one.

[dfmaverick]

I like looking at the old Sears & Wards Christmas catalogs. I'm thankful for the scans by someone on the 'net to provide a remembrance of my youth. (Oddly enough, I was going through the scans and suddenly I had that distinctive wet paper smell of the catalogs in my head...weird)

Here's a sample of some of the 2600 games. You can see them starting to slash prices for Christmas '83 and the low prices ($5) of many games in '84.

Sears 1982
Sears 1983
Wards 1984

[Gray_Area]

I noticed things at that age, but I had no knowledge to comprehend them. I did know quality when I saw it, and instantly panned all the arcade ports - except for Coleco's stuff. When the 5200 came out, I seriously wonderd why the hell they were still pushing games for the 2600. It obviously was an inferior unit. They should've realized that (even recent) 2600 buyers who felt left out/abandoned would've slunk away for a little bit, but would've come back. Following such logic across the board probably would've averted the catastrophe.

[RandyT]

Always cracks me up to see Tele-Games mentioned on those flyers.  When I lived in Dallas county that remains of that company was literally a guy's garage in a house down the street.  Went to school with his daughter.  I have no idea if that was ever truly an actual company or just a dude importing and reselling stuff.  But I about ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- my pants when I saw an ad for them in GamePro and the address on it was 4 blocks away.

   Tele-Games was Sears' re-branded Atari 2600 stuff, because, you know, it's better if Sears makes it.  What company are you talking about?

They should've realized that (even recent) 2600 buyers who felt left out/abandoned would've slunk away for a little bit, but would've come back. Following such logic across the board probably would've averted the catastrophe.

They thought the same way.  The 5200 was not well received and was plagued with controller problems.  They tried again with the 7800, which was an improvement across the board, and offered backward compatibility to the 2600.  And still, consumers didn't come back.   The market was very different 25 years ago.

[ark_ader]

Telegames....

Was that the console with black triangle joysticks?

[Zero_Hour]

Telegames....

Was that the console with black triangle joysticks?

I believe you are thinking of the Fairchild Channel F

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Channel_F

[Gatt]

They should've realized that (even recent) 2600 buyers who felt left out/abandoned would've slunk away for a little bit, but would've come back. Following such logic across the board probably would've averted the catastrophe.

They thought the same way.  The 5200 was not well received and was plagued with controller problems.  They tried again with the 7800, which was an improvement across the board, and offered backward compatibility to the 2600.  And still, consumers didn't come back.   The market was very different 25 years ago.

Keep in mind that a video game back then was a 5 or 10 minute experience with little to no personal involvement,  in contrast to later years where a game could last 40 hours or more,  had narrative,  and often the Player is involved in the game's direction as it plays out.  The games were designed after arcade game design philosophies,  and the result was a experience that failed to cause long-term engagement.

Which,  I'd argue is a lesson we're about to relearn as companies discard narrative and single player games in favor of multiplayer-centric design and free-to-play designed around a business plan instead of a good game idea.  IMO today's market bears more similiarities with the 2600 generation than any other generation.

[DrumAnBass]

The most vivid memory I have of the crash was seeing a clearance bin in the local supermarket, piled high with 3rd party 2600 game carts for $4 each, along with 2600 compatible joysticks for $5... In a SUPERMARKET!  By that time, I had moved on to the C64 and knew that times, they were-a-changin'

[fantoboy]

I moved to Japan in 83 (Air Force brat), when the Famicom (NES) was new and hadn't hit the US yet.  So 83 was actually a great year for video games as far as I was concerned.

[RandyT]

Keep in mind that a video game back then was a 5 or 10 minute experience with little to no personal involvement,  in contrast to later years where a game could last 40 hours or more,  had narrative,  and often the Player is involved in the game's direction as it plays out.  The games were designed after arcade game design philosophies,  and the result was a experience that failed to cause long-term engagement.

I think you are looking at the past through a modern filter.  In those days, that number at the top of the screen reigned supreme.  The score meant something to players, and playing a game for 40 hours was nothing in the quest to get that number higher.  After a friend and I got good at Yar's Revenge, we sat in a room for 24 hours straight and played it until we could roll the score, which we did a did at least twice in the same game.

While games with a narrative are appealing nowadays (they really weren't at first), the fact that they have an end does more to disengage players from the game.  It does, however, keep GameStop in business .

[SavannahLion]

Thanks Randy, what I came up with was a lot less civil.

To put it in perspective.
This ~~> cannot fit into the Atari 2600 6507 RAM space yet every game had to run with 128 bytes of RAM.

This ~~> is too large to fit on an Adventure cartridge, yet Warren Robinett managed to pack an entire adventure game PLUS the first Easter Egg into 4K of ROM space.

Personally, I find Adventure more captivating than staring at .

[DaveMMR]

I wonder how much that ET 2600 cartridge is worth today?

Next to nothing. 

I think you are looking at the past through a modern filter.  In those days, that number at the top of the screen reigned supreme.  The score meant something to players, and playing a game for 40 hours was nothing in the quest to get that number higher.  After a friend and I got good at Yar's Revenge, we sat in a room for 24 hours straight and played it until we could roll the score, which we did a did at least twice in the same game.

While games with a narrative are appealing nowadays (they really weren't at first), the fact that they have an end does more to disengage players from the game.  It does, however, keep GameStop in business .

+1 A lot of people can't believe that people spent so much time playing these archaic games but it definitely wasn't 5-to-10 minute bursts. For me, getting the score to roll was the modern equivalent of "beating a game". And a lot of these old Atari and Coleco games had a large number of difficulty settings to master, so there was more replay value than people think.

As for the crash: I personally didn't realized it happened until years later, though I do remember now that my parents really stocked up on the Colecovision carts Christmas of 1983 and now I know why. And while a lot of people point all the blame at Pacman and E.T. for the 2600, it really was a combination of many factors - one of them being the rise of the affordable home computer. While carts were being tossed into bargain bins, we were booting up our Commodore 64's, etc. and really enjoying advanced games without knowing our favorite console game publishers were hemorrhaging money behind-the-scenes.

The North American Crash really did shape a lot of what gaming eventually became. You can thank that event for Nintendo's "VCR-like" design of the NES (it can't look like a videogame), the ROB (used to convince retailers it's more of a toy), and the lock-out chips and strict licensing agreements that have been put in place to stem the glut of poor quality, unauthorized games.

[Haze]

There seem to be 2 ways of looking at this.

As mentioned, you could be talking about the arcade games, too many new titles being pumped out on expensive one-off boards, at high cost to operators, not making enough money to cover costs and be able to buy more machines, that's one way to look at it.  Secondly there was the home market.

When people talk about crash the most common stories which come to mind aren't the arcade ones, but the home software, the x copies of ET which went unsold.

If you look at it purely from the perspective of the games you'd probably be sat there wondering 'what crash?'  There's no real discernible dip in output (of arcade games) at any point in the 80s, or 90s, sure there were some games which were rough around the edges, but there must have still been enough demand.

For the home markets, yes, there were a lot of awful games produced early on, but there were awful games produced later too, not much has changed.  The whole ET situation is bizzare, because the blame for the crash often gets pinned on cheap startups wanting to make a quick buck out of games and flooding the market with crap.  ET was a first party Atari game, likewise the terrible port of Pacman yet if you look over here at something like Manic Miner (1983) and Jet Set Willy (1984) they're considered classic games but were basically the only thing ever done by that developer.

At the end of the day if you pay your guys in marketing more than your developers can deliver and leave customers and retailers feeling ripped off or otherwise cheated, then yeah, you're going to end up with a lack of trust.  If retailers (and publishers) were stupid enough to believe their own marketing hype, you're going to get a crash.

So over-investing, over-hyping, under-delivering and somehow actually thinking you're doing things right while being undercut by people who do give a damn about quality is a pretty good recipe for things to go boom, although the music industry still seem to be surviving somehow and they're far worse offenders in all areas?

[Haze]

yeah, I think that's probably what it was, a blip, in a relatively new industry, which sent everybody into panic but ended up being 'wisely' manipulated by some.

[DaveMMR]

As mentioned, you could be talking about the arcade games, too many new titles being pumped out on expensive one-off boards, at high cost to operators, not making enough money, and secondly the home market.

The 1983 crash was all about the home market. When Warner sold off Atari to the Tramiels, it retained the arcade division because it was pretty much the only part of the company making money. The arcades, while not at its peak and definitely on a steady decline, still had life left in them.

For the home markets, yes, there were a lot of awful games produced early on, but there were awful games produced later too, not much has changed.  The whole ET situation is bizzare, because the blame for the crash often gets pinned on cheap startups wanting to make a quick buck out of games and flooding the market with crap.

During the second generation, there wasn't just a bunch of crap - there was WALL-TO-WALL crap. Companies that had no business making games (Ralston-Purina?) were flooding the shelves. Then multiply that times the number of available consoles and home computers (back when you'd release a game for every single system - see the image on this page and caption for example) and you'd see how there just too much choice and too many landmines.

Why the failure of E.T. and Pacman was so high profile was because consumers were looking to Atari, a familiar name, to provide a quality product, figuring most of the other lackluster titles were just from two-bit companies anyway. But they quickly found out that Atari was rushing their games through development as well, with little concern for quality. Consumer confidence drops, carts end up in a landfill, industry crashes, Japan swoops in and takes over.

[Haze]

Why the failure of E.T. and Pacman was so high profile was because consumers were looking to Atari, a familiar name, to provide a quality product, figuring most of the other lackluster titles were just from two-bit companies anyway. But they quickly found out that Atari was rushing their games through development as well, with little concern for quality. Consumer confidence drops, carts end up in a landfill, industry crashes, Japan swoops in and takes over.

but why only in the US?  There was an awful lot of complete crap on the 8-bit systems here too, but most places simply had the sense not to overstock it, and the times the better known publishers did put out a stinker just ended up being soaked up and if a smaller publisher was getting consistently good reviews (at a time when reviews were *honest*) then we saw more of their games on shelves rather than having to be sold direct via mail order.

it worked, and it worked well

[DaveMMR]

but why only in the us?

Simple. Atari, Coleco, Mattel, et al. are American companies. Video games in general were an American industry until we crashed. I'm not familiar with the European market but I am simply guessing less money was at stake. Atari lost billions - with a B.

And it was not only bad software. It was bad software Atari was NOT making money on. Anyone can and did make a cart for Atari and didn't have to give them a dime. There weren't making money on the consoles either until the 2600 jr.

 

[Haze]

but why only in the us?

Simple. Atari, Coleco, Mattel, et al. are American companies. Video games in general were an American industry until we crashed. I'm not familiar with the European market but I am simply guessing less money was at stake. Atari lost billions - with a B.

And it was not only bad software. It was bad software Atari was NOT making money on. Anyone can and did make a cart for Atari and didn't have to give them a dime. There weren't making money on the consoles either until the 2600 jr.

So basically less money was involved, less liability, yet we still had better games in the 8-bit era?

I guess it's true that the likes of Sinclair and Amstrad never pitched themselves as first party developers beyond making the machines although Commodore were popular enough and they weren't based here (but I get the impression they had little impact in the US?).  It was only really in the later days of the Amiga I'd say everything really fell apart here and that again came to technology not living up to hype, reviews which were so paid-for it wasn't even funny (completely broken games getting 90% scores...) etc.

Atari never really made an impact here, apart from the ST, which the majority of people just considered inferior to the Amiga anyway.

I think the diversity is something I miss

[yotsuya]

I think you are looking at the past through a modern filter.  In those days, that number at the top of the screen reigned supreme.  The score meant something to players, and playing a game for 40 hours was nothing in the quest to get that number higher.  After a friend and I got good at Yar's Revenge, we sat in a room for 24 hours straight and played it until we could roll the score, which we did a did at least twice in the same game.

Two of my favorite accomplishments as a kid: flipping the score in Space Invaders from 9999 back to 0000+ (took me what seemed like an hour to do it), and playing long enough to run out the clock in Pitfall!. I later learned that running out the clock didn't actually mean I beat the game.

[SavannahLion]

.....yet we still had better games in the 8-bit era?

There was never a 4-bit era. The 6507 in the Atari is just a crippled version of the 6502, variations of which also found itself in the NES' 2A03 and the Commodore's 6510.

[DaveMMR]

So basically less money was involved, less liability, yet we still had better games in the 8-bit era?

Essentially. But don't forget the "8-bit era" covers the generations before the crash as well as after the crash (i.e. the NES, SMS, etc.) And while you can definitely make a case for the games of that second generation (the 2600, etc.) being better, there was definitely a lack of quality control in place that ruined many a good title. Also, it's easy to think of that era as a golden time - but flip through a VCS price guide or cart list and you'll see pages of WTF entries like "Tooth Protectors", "I Want My Mommy", "Kool-Aid Man" and "Name This Game". (Although ironically enough - some of those titles go for a lot of money today because nobody bought them originally and are rare.)

I guess it's true that the likes of Sinclair and Amstrad never pitched themselves as first party developers beyond making the machines although Commodore were popular enough and they weren't based here (but I get the impression they had little impact in the US?).  It was only really in the later days of the Amiga I'd say everything really fell apart here and that again came to technology not living up to hype, reviews which were so paid-for it wasn't even funny (completely broken games getting 90% scores...) etc.

Those home computers were partially responsible for the crash (the crash refers specifically to home video game console manufactures and publishers.) Before we had the NES, et. al., console manufacturers were trying to turn all their consoles into home computers because that was the next logical step at the time. Mattel released a home computer component as well as Coleco (the ill-fated Adam - which routinely erased the users software due to poor shielding of internal magnetic interference.) Atari also had a line of home computers. But they couldn't compete with the likes of Commodore - that was more powerful and designed as a computer from the get-go and not just a weak console with a keyboard slapped to it. 

[Ravenger]

Atari also had a line of home computers. But they couldn't compete with the likes of Commodore - that was more powerful and designed as a computer from the get-go and not just a weak console with a keyboard slapped to it.

The Atari 8-Bit range were in many ways superior to the C64 - and I say that as someone who is a big C64 fan, and my career started off on the C64.

They had faster processors, more colours (128), better display control hardware - they could change screen modes without the flickering raster lines you got on the C64. Arcade conversions on the Atari tended to be more faithful than the C64 versions. However they were incredibly expensive compared to the Commodore machines, as were the Apple machines of the time. Commodore in the US and Sinclair in Europe pioneered cheap, high volume computers to the masses. They weren't the most powerful or capable, but they were affordable.

[alfonzotan]

Atari also had a line of home computers. But they couldn't compete with the likes of Commodore - that was more powerful and designed as a computer from the get-go and not just a weak console with a keyboard slapped to it.

The Atari 8-Bit range were in many ways superior to the C64 - and I say that as someone who is a big C64 fan, and my career started off on the C64.

They had faster processors, more colours (128), better display control hardware - they could change screen modes without the flickering raster lines you got on the C64. Arcade conversions on the Atari tended to be more faithful than the C64 versions. However they were incredibly expensive compared to the Commodore machines, as were the Apple machines of the time. Commodore in the US and Sinclair in Europe pioneered cheap, high volume computers to the masses. They weren't the most powerful or capable, but they were affordable.

Yep.  Atari never got the price down to the consumer level (as opposed to the enthusiast level) until after Tramiel bought the company and slashed the 800XL down to $99.  By then the C64 had already been selling for $99 for quite a while, and Commodore owned the market.

The original Atari 800 (all the subsequent 8-bit models were just variants of that original design) was a fantastic computer for its time.  The ability to add expansion cartridges for RAM and such by just flipping up a panel was way beyond anything anybody was selling in the consumer market back then.  It just wasn't priced to sell, and the company had a bad "Atari is an island" policy of not dealing with either software or hardware peripheral developers.

[ark_ader]

Atari also had a line of home computers. But they couldn't compete with the likes of Commodore - that was more powerful and designed as a computer from the get-go and not just a weak console with a keyboard slapped to it.

The Atari 8-Bit range were in many ways superior to the C64 - and I say that as someone who is a big C64 fan, and my career started off on the C64.

They had faster processors, more colours (128), better display control hardware - they could change screen modes without the flickering raster lines you got on the C64. Arcade conversions on the Atari tended to be more faithful than the C64 versions. However they were incredibly expensive compared to the Commodore machines, as were the Apple machines of the time. Commodore in the US and Sinclair in Europe pioneered cheap, high volume computers to the masses. They weren't the most powerful or capable, but they were affordable.

Yep.  Atari never got the price down to the consumer level (as opposed to the enthusiast level) until after Tramiel bought the company and slashed the 800XL down to $99.  By then the C64 had already been selling for $99 for quite a while, and Commodore owned the market.

The original Atari 800 (all the subsequent 8-bit models were just variants of that original design) was a fantastic computer for its time.  The ability to add expansion cartridges for RAM and such by just flipping up a panel was way beyond anything anybody was selling in the consumer market back then.  It just wasn't priced to sell, and the company had a bad "Atari is an island" policy of not dealing with either software or hardware peripheral developers.

I felt sorry for those kids who got an Atari 400 for Christmas.  Membrane keyboards were never in fashion.



And you had to swap out the BASIC cartridge all the time.....

[alfonzotan]

Atari also had a line of home computers. But they couldn't compete with the likes of Commodore - that was more powerful and designed as a computer from the get-go and not just a weak console with a keyboard slapped to it.

The Atari 8-Bit range were in many ways superior to the C64 - and I say that as someone who is a big C64 fan, and my career started off on the C64.

They had faster processors, more colours (128), better display control hardware - they could change screen modes without the flickering raster lines you got on the C64. Arcade conversions on the Atari tended to be more faithful than the C64 versions. However they were incredibly expensive compared to the Commodore machines, as were the Apple machines of the time. Commodore in the US and Sinclair in Europe pioneered cheap, high volume computers to the masses. They weren't the most powerful or capable, but they were affordable.

Yep.  Atari never got the price down to the consumer level (as opposed to the enthusiast level) until after Tramiel bought the company and slashed the 800XL down to $99.  By then the C64 had already been selling for $99 for quite a while, and Commodore owned the market.

The original Atari 800 (all the subsequent 8-bit models were just variants of that original design) was a fantastic computer for its time.  The ability to add expansion cartridges for RAM and such by just flipping up a panel was way beyond anything anybody was selling in the consumer market back then.  It just wasn't priced to sell, and the company had a bad "Atari is an island" policy of not dealing with either software or hardware peripheral developers.

I felt sorry for those kids who got an Atari 400 for Christmas.  Membrane keyboards were never in fashion.



And you had to swap out the BASIC cartridge all the time.....

Yeah, that was me.  But I didn't know any better, so it worked out okay...

[Ravenger]

One of the best selling upgrades for the 400 was a full moving key keyboard replacement. It was nowhere near a nice as the 800's keyboard though. That was wonderful to type on.

The Atari floppy disk drives were excellent - very fast, if limited in capacity, but the tape drives were terrible. Very slow, and used only one channel of the tape stereo track so it could play audio whilst loading (which was rarely done). Because of that they were very unreliable.

I did have an Atari 800 at one point, but I must have sold it (I can't remember what happened to it). I wish I'd kept it now. I still have my 30 year old Commodore 64, and it works, but the disc drive doesn't read disks any more.

[vanrose72]

An interesting Alamogordo Daily News article from September 1983:

[alfonzotan]

Ever been to Alamogordo?  Trust me, it was well-chosen for that particular job.  That place IS a dump...

[RandyT]

I felt sorry for those kids who got an Atari 400 for Christmas.  Membrane keyboards were never in fashion.

And you had to swap out the BASIC cartridge all the time.....

Yeah, the 400 keyboard wasn't fun.  The system was really aimed at gamers, and to provide an introduction to computing.  It was still a darn sight better than the Odyssey2.

When you had to save your nickels to get one, you were happy to have had the lower cost option.  It was a good move by Atari, in those days, to make the 400 in the form it took.

They had faster processors, more colours (128).....

The problem with the Atari was the odd shaped pixels.  More colors, yes, but the aspect ratio of the pixels in that mode made for some challenges in the graphic design department.  It really cut down on the usability of those modes.  Atari 400/800 didn't have a 16 simultaneous colors mode which was greater than 80 x 192.  The C64 had a pretty major advantage there.

[Gray_Area]

They thought the same way.  The 5200 was not well received and was plagued with controller problems.  They tried again with the 7800, which was an improvement across the board, and offered backward compatibility to the 2600.  And still, consumers didn't come back.   The market was very different 25 years ago.

Yeah, I guess the public (read: men of the household) were still of the 'it should last ten years' generation. That changed very soon, though.

but why only in the US? 

Um.....McDonald's, Booger Sling, etc......in essence, gluttony. Capitalism, yo.

I think you are looking at the past through a modern filter.  In those days, that number at the top of the screen reigned supreme.  The score meant something to players, and playing a game for 40 hours was nothing in the quest to get that number higher.  After a friend and I got good at Yar's Revenge, we sat in a room for 24 hours straight and played it until we could roll the score, which we did a did at least twice in the same game.

Two of my favorite accomplishments as a kid: flipping the score in Space Invaders from 9999 back to 0000+ (took me what seemed like an hour to do it), and playing long enough to run out the clock in Pitfall!. I later learned that running out the clock didn't actually mean I beat the game.

Hell, we'd just let it sit and come back in a while. We got bored playing games that long, and just HAD to go outside and play.

The only game I [cared to play long enough] to get very high - like 1000 pts - was Pick Axe Pete, Odyssey2. God that game bores me to death now. Cover art on the box was great, though. That might be a killer game to re-make, with modern 2D graphics and better AI.


Thinking about it, though, I remember the Vectrex went way down in price. I'd been asking for one, and the crash made it feasible - especially as it was christmas, so I got even more games with it!


Yeah, membrane keyboards blew.  We didn't use our Odyssey2's keyboard that much, and it had problems registering.

[vanrose72]

Ever been to Alamogordo?  Trust me, it was well-chosen for that particular job.  That place IS a dump...

I hear a lot of extra-terrestrials vacation there, so at least someone finds it appealing. 

[vanrose72]

Friend of mine is stationed there, I got the impression it's pretty rural.  Drove through it once and didn't get much of an impression.

He managed to gain 15lbs in 2 months in San Antonio.  Apparently the food choices are pretty miserable, too

My brother and I served in the Air Force in the mid-'90s. He was temporarily stationed at Holloman AFB at one point and didn't mention much about it. 

I had always heard the food in the USAF was better than throughout the rest of the military. It was good to a fault, apparently.

[alfonzotan]

Friend of mine is stationed there, I got the impression it's pretty rural.  Drove through it once and didn't get much of an impression.

He managed to gain 15lbs in 2 months in San Antonio.  Apparently the food choices are pretty miserable, too

My brother and I served in the Air Force in the mid-'90s. He was temporarily stationed at Holloman AFB at one point and didn't mention much about it. 

I had always heard the food in the USAF was better than throughout the rest of the military. It was good to a fault, apparently.

I've spent time at Holloman.  Alamagordo is a typical crappy military small town (disclaimer: I was born and raised in  typical crappy military small town) surrounded by... nothing.  The closest anything (and I mean ANYTHING, as in "other than one gas station") to Alamagordo is an hour and a half's drive away.

There was a good reason why they set off the first atomic bomb there.  Nobody around to notice!

[Mysterioii]

I'm old enough that I really should remember more about the crash, but for some reason I don't.  I remember standing in line waiting for a now-nonexistent department store to open so I could buy a new copy of pacman for about $50 I think, only to find out that it sucked, and then playing the hell out of it anyway because $50 was a hell of a lot of money to my brother and I back then...  I don't recall loading up on tons of cheap games...  maybe we did, or maybe we had worn out our interest in things before the prices dropped, but man I don't think so.  We played the heck out of that 2600.

I remember on a few games like defender and missile command we would play them starting out on the "teddy bear" level just to make fun of how easy they were, then play them until they got hard...  You all remember that?  Certain games had a little teddy bear head icon in the instruction manual to indicate the "kiddie difficulty" setting that was rediculously easy.  They would GRADUALLY get harder, I think I played defender starting on the teddy bear level until I finally lost all my lives, and I was actually kinda spaced out and sick to my stomach when I finally crawled my way back up into the sunlight...

If nobody else remembers the teddy bear levels then, um, I was just kidding about all that... 

[yotsuya]

I remember the teddy bear levels!

Remember Atari's marketing on games? ZOMG 62 VARIATIONS OF ASTEROIDS ON ONE CARTRIDGE! Then you find out half of those are two player versions, half of those are speed variations, and maybe there are really only 4 ACTUAL variations on game play. It was so awesome.

[Mysterioii]

Haha I give them credit because at least there were some variations...  especially things like air/sea battle and combat...  If I recall correctly, another element with Asteroids was "what happens when you pull back on they joystick" since the controls were so limited...  I think some variations had a shield, some had a "hyperspace" thing where you just jumped to a random area of the screen, and I believe some had a "flip" feature where your ship would instantly do a 180 so you could shoot behind you... not sure if there were any other "events tied to pulling back on the stick" variations there...

I think Breakout had some pretty significant variations too, but man it's been a while...

[yotsuya]

I actually prefered shield on Asteroids as opposed to the default hyperspace.

[alfonzotan]

"Maze Craze" was one of the better examples of the Atari "multiple games" schtick. 

[SavannahLion]

I remember the teddy bear levels!

Remember Atari's marketing on games? ZOMG 62 VARIATIONS OF ASTEROIDS ON ONE CARTRIDGE! Then you find out half of those are two player versions, half of those are speed variations, and maybe there are really only 4 ACTUAL variations on game play. It was so awesome.

Air Sea Battle probably had the worst.  Bomber vs three jets?

What sucked ass was having to "flip" through n variations before getting to the n+1th. And if you went too fast you'd have to cycle through again.

Of course, which was worse? That or Cheetahman?

[ahofle]

Air Sea Battle probably had the worst.  Bomber vs three jets?

That was Combat thank you very much.  I actually found that bomber vs 3 jets to be useful as a handicap when playing against your parents or some other unskilled adversary.

[PL1]

Two Dig Dug screenshots for anyone wondering about the teddy bear levels.

The first with the bear (bottom, just right of center) and easier opponents.

The second without the bear and normal opponents.


Scott

[SavannahLion]

Air Sea Battle probably had the worst.  Bomber vs three jets?

That was Combat thank you very much.  I actually found that bomber vs 3 jets to be useful as a handicap when playing against your parents or some other unskilled adversary.

I stand corrected and it was still crap 

[yotsuya]

I loved watching that bomber contort into all those weird shapes

[popsicle]

I just watched these 'Once Upon Atari' videos at atarimania.  Apologies if this series was already mentioned here or in another thread, but I found them fun to watch.

http://www.atarimania.com/list_videos_atari_publisher-country-type-_6-16-D-_2.html

[vanrose72]

I just watched these 'Once Upon Atari' videos at atarimania.  Apologies if this series was already mentioned here or in another thread, but I found them fun to watch.
http://www.atarimania.com/list_videos_atari_publisher-country-type-_6-16-D-_2.html

I watched those just the other day. A lot of toking went on in that office.

[Well Fed Games]

I watched those just the other day. A lot of toking went on in that office.

[Gray_Area]

Yeah, Combat was pretty boring, and the above-mentioned air fight one was infuriating.

By the way, we did get a class (via our social studies class) in computers. We even had a sheet of terms - like nanosecond, and CPU - to memorize. I actually remembered a lot of those terms, but couldn'tve cared less about computers.

[patm95]

I was 5 in 1983 and had a 2600.  I do remember games all of a sudden getting real cheap.  I remember a local drug store had many copies of 3 different games (I think they were ET, Asteroids, and Missle Command) all were 50 cents a piece.  We got a copy of each one at the time even though I already had those games.  Unfortunately, when I was older our house caught on fire and lost those new games still in the package. 

[Well Fed Games]

Yeah, a lot of people would go back in time and kill Hitler or something. Me, I would go back and buy enough cheap 2600/5200/7800 games that I could open a fresh one every day.

[SavannahLion]

Yeah, a lot of people would go back in time and kill Hitler or something.

Before anyone attempts this, you must read bulletin 1147. Thank you.

[Hoopz]

Good reference.

[vanrose72]

High-larious!

[Well Fed Games]

Yeah, a lot of people would go back in time and kill Hitler or something.

Before anyone attempts this, you must read bulletin 1147. Thank you.

lol, hadn't checked that out before. http://www.abyssapexzine.com/wikihistory/ 

[Gray_Area]

Yeah, a lot of people would go back in time and kill Hitler or something.

Before anyone attempts this, you must read bulletin 1147. Thank you.

Naa. He just needed to be excepted into the Polytechnic.

[yotsuya]

Yeah, a lot of people would go back in time and kill Hitler or something.

Before anyone attempts this, you must read bulletin 1147. Thank you.

lol, hadn't checked that out before. http://www.abyssapexzine.com/wikihistory/ 

That's great!

[vanrose72]

My apologies if others have already posted about the Alamogordo landfill excavation and documentary:

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/infamous-video-game-landfill-faces-excavation-165828265.html

[ark_ader]

That would be an awesome video game concept.

Indiana Jones + Dig Dug + Greenpeace + Nicolas Cage.

[Gray_Area]

Jesus.....Cage is so bad....I know when a girl says she likes Nicholas Cage that I need to run the other way.

*To be fair, I think Cage is a decent actor - when he has a good script - and when he isn't trying to sound like Jimmy Stewart.

[ark_ader]

That would be an awesome video game concept.

Indiana Jones + Dig Dug + Greenpeace + Nicolas Cage = Uwe Boll.

[orion]

I was raised by a complete computer geek back in the 70s and 80's. My Dad was the defecto Computer science  department at the college where he worked as a college professor. We had an apple II, an Atari 2600 and before that a coleco Telstar arcade. That thing was bad ass!!! At any rate when he wasn't trying to teach me how to program in pascal, he was buying me cool games for the apple II made by this start up company (who's name made him snicker for reasons I didn't understand at the time) called Microsoft. I remember playing castle wolfenstine on the apple II as well as some sort of variant of space wars with these paddle controllers for it. During summer vacation at myrtle beach he would let me run loose at the Pavilion with a pocket full of quarters. I don't remember the 2600 going away. I just remember playing arcade and games on the apple before getting an NES in 85. Did I mention the Telstar arcade???

[lcmgadgets]

I'm 48, so I was there too, during the days of those early consoles & home computers. I never noticed the crash. I was an arcade junkie, solely & completely. What I saw in the way of games on the early consoles & computers convinced me that the arcades were in no danger. There were a couple of cute exceptions--I rather liked my dedicated 'Combat'. But they couldn't compare to the dedicated cab's.

Until a friend let me goof around with his Commordore 64. & even then, I wasn't impressed, although, for the 1st time, I worried a little about the future of the arcades. Computers were getting good!

& then, 1 fateful day, that same friend introduced me to Elite on that same Commodore, & I saw what a computer could do for video gaming...I still dream of that old game. I owned & played all the sequels, & looked for clones since--X3 Reunion came pretty close. Now that I hear David Braben has actually set a release year for Elite 4...

The consoles now are great, except for 1 thing. I will always prefer, by far, a stick & some big round buttons, or a track ball the size of a 5 pin bowling ball, or an honest to goodness flight yoke, or a full size steering wheel, or even (for the right game) a full blown keyboard, over that damn hand held thing u have to control with your thumbs. Did Luke fly the X-Wing down the Death Star's trench with something he carried in his hands, & worked with his thumbs?

But man, I sure miss those arcades. I've said for years (& go ahead, laugh at me all you want, but I mean it) that if I were a multi-millionaire, I'd build a Luna City type arcade, & open it to the public, free of charge (it'd b attached to the hard wood floored rollarena also open for free). Of course, I'd have to hire staff just to maintain those machines, cause I'd b too busy playing 'em...

[Rigby]

There is an excellent explanation of the crash in question at 54:02, here: http://youtu.be/MBT1OK6VAIU?t=54m2s

The entire video is excellent.

[Gray_Area]

There is an excellent explanation of the crash in question at 54:02, here: http://youtu.be/MBT1OK6VAIU?t=54m2s

The entire video is excellent.

Yeah, some good and heavy stuff there. The crash part I knew, but the details of Pitfall development, and as well as the insight into the background of the time through it, was fascinating. Like he, some talented people there, including the audience, seemed to me.

[RandyT]

There is an excellent explanation of the crash in question at 54:02, here:

The entire video is excellent.

The one thing I don't really agree with in his assessment was his take that, paraphrased, "unfair competition from cut-rate titles destroyed Activision's ability to compete".  This kind of smacks of arrogance, in that he believes that Activisions titles were the only ones which were worth the prices they needed to charge in order to cover their operating expenses.  Activisions titles were usually good, but they had a few stinkers as well.    The fact is, many of the companies, like Imagic for example, were putting out some nice games and they all suffered the same fate.  In reality, consumers were able to get games, sometimes as good or better than what Activision was offering, for a better price, so they did.  This became worse as the market started to crumble, and many of those higher quality titles found their way into discount bins as the companies started to fail.

What they were battling was an unsophisticated, ravenous (at it's peak) consumer base, and a hardware platform that was at the end of the development cycle (2600).  The majority of consumers did not pay close attention to hobbyist mags, and saw a "video game as a video game".  This led to many rushed or poor titles making it to market.  Overall consumer confidence slumped, and with so many choices coupled with few ways to allow consumers to be informed, they no longer wanted to chance spending big money on a title.  When parents saw kids not playing the games as much as they used to, they figured the "fad" was over, and didn't upgrade to the newer systems when they became available.

If Activision's titles were so superior to everything else, they would have come out on top and survived the crash.  The reality is, however, there were limitations to what the 2600 could do, and the difference between a great Activision title and a very good $5 bargain bin title, just wasn't large enough to command the difference in price.  It was a house of cards, and Activision was just another card in the pile.

[rpgposer]

I was 17 years old in 1983, a senior in high school.  It was SUCH a rich time for the home computer market that I hardly noticed the crash.  I didn't own any atari console, but somehow (don't ask) ended up with an atari xl series computer.  I had a friend with a 7800 and Food Fight, which was pretty cool.  I did, however, notice the atari shakedown when I was able to afford a brand new XE series computer for next to nothing.
I got out of the hobby for many years, and didn't own another computer until the windows 95/AOL boom.