Yipee Ki Yay - Stainless Steel Cabinet Build

[henbury]

Just added the complete build diary for my new mame cab - Yipee Ki Yay.

I think you'll find some novel features, including:

Cabinet built from a stainless steel frame combined with ply exterior
Simple and effective method of producing artwork
Bezel production and TopGun LED-sensor bar accomodation
Coin door microswitch solutions
Hiding hinges
Control panel box housing both the controls and keyboard drawer
And much more!

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120827

[paigeoliver]

Looks nice, but I can't believe you got all the way through a project that big and expensive without anyone telling you that arcade games don't have or need a frame and angling the player 3 and 4 joysticks makes them basically unusable.

Luckily it looks like you can salvage the joystick situation without ruining your overlay, just reroute them straight. The frame, well, it just made it heavier and more expensive, it isn't hurting anything.

I like the theme. I have one of those duramold Die Hard cabinets in my basement!

[henbury]

Hi mate thanks for your reply, and thanks for checking it out! I'll update the post to reflect this but to elaborate on your points...

The stainless tube frame by itself was very very light, yet could support both the weight of the monitor and my body weight on the control panel arms (it's interesting what you test). The tubing (and lots more of it) was obtained for free through my uncle, who also provided the free welding skills. The beauty of the frame is that it supports all the weight. Panel to panel joins are simple right angle brackets - they serve no weight-bearing purpose at all. The side panels are merely holding up the marquee and ceiling panel - they aren't holding up the monitor. So a stainless frame was decided upon because it was free, rock solid, light, and for simplicity the rest of the body work was simply screwed onto it. Add wheels and weight is basically a non-issue anyway. I think more importantly though, it was a fun exercise and something new to try.

I never played 2-joystick games when I was younger, and even though I was aware of and considered that option, I chose against it and opted for the 4 individiual players groups. Once I made that decision, I was free to place 3 & 4 controls where I like. I know you can still orientate 3 & 4 joysticks to allow for 2 joystick play but I wasn't overly concerned and preferred the groups the way they turned out. I'm looking towards incorporating 4 player console games so you can sort of see that in my thinking. For me the cabinet is a finished product so I won't be re-routing or re-orientating any joysticks. That overlay took a lot of time and work and I simply ain't changing it haha.

[paigeoliver]

I wasn't talking about twin joysticks games. I meant that player 3 and 4 won't be able to play anything correctly. An arcade stick isn't a gamepad, you can't angle them and expect people to be able to use them properly.

I apologize. Sometimes I feel like I am just beating my head against a wall with some of this stuff. It can get frustrating.

I have never played on an exact precise clone of the control panel layout you have come up with. I have played on maybe a half dozen machines that had angled sticks (several pretty similar to your layout but not exact). There was always some level of strangeness to it that ranged from mildly weird to totally unplayable. The larger the angle and the closer you were to the screen the worse it got. I have played on countless machines that didn't angle the sticks and the only thing that was ever weird about it was the less than ideal screen viewing angle that most 4 player machines gave the 3rd and 4th players.

The alignment of the buttons in relation to the alignment of the stick isn't a real issue. If you look at enough original machines you can see that they swung those all over the place on multiplayer machines. The reason it isn't an issue is because your joystick hand isn't doing the same thing as your button hands, at all. It is up in the air holding a stick controlling the action that happens on the monitor and that is why aligning the stick with the monitor works most naturally. That is why when you drive your car you can operate it just fine with your steering wheel at one level and your shifter down much lower. However if you tried to ergonomically angle that shifter gate pattern to fit the angle of your arm you would find it would be harder to control.

It might also help if you could imagine piloting a plane with that stick, and the monitor is the front window of the plane. The plane will always be easiest to fly if the controls face the same was as the window, even if you approach the stick from an angle.

[henbury]

I understand what you mean. But why get so upset about other peoples machines that you're never going to play on? It all comes down to personal preference and that's the beauty in building these things, you can completely customise it to do whatever you want, how you want. You don't like playing on angled controls, fine. I didn't have a problem with angling the joysticks, and I've played on it now on each players controls and there is nothing weird about it. Others have played on it too and no-one has said anything about it. In fact look at how many other controls panels are out there with angled joysticks. It's even been profitable for some to produce them commercially. I haven't yet seen someone put in all the effort on a cabinet, and then criticise their own work after it was built because they wish they didn't angle the joysticks on the outside players.

And thankyou for the analogies. It's like yelling at the sky for being blue.

[yotsuya]

I haven't yet seen someone put in all the effort on a cabinet, and then criticise their own work after it was built because they wish they didn't angle the joysticks on the outside players.

I'm totally cool with whatever you do with your own machine, but for the record, it HAS come up before. Here's three example of people commenting on their own cabs:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=14230.msg111149#msg111149

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118037.msg1256589#msg1256589

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=117977.msg1252272#msg1252272

Just sayin', it's not necessarily paigeoliver on a crusade or something...

[paigeoliver]

It is a little bit of a personal crusade yes, only because so much time and money gets wasted on redoing angled panels (or never using them) all because the guy who wrote the crapmame website THOUGHT that player 3 and 4 were supposed to be angled, and incorrectly called a cabinet out for not doing it. Everyone reads the crapmame site and incorrectly picks up that little tidbit.

Those 2 sentences on that web page have probably literally cost the community $50,000 in redone control panels and thousands of hours in labor.

I don't want to insult you or your cabinet. I want your friends and children to have a great time playing on your awesome machine and not to think it is weird or crappy because the X-Men don't move properly.

[CheffoJeffo]

In fact look at how many other controls panels are out there with angled joysticks. It's even been profitable for some to produce them commercially. I haven't yet seen someone put in all the effort on a cabinet, and then criticise their own work after it was built because they wish they didn't angle the joysticks on the outside players.

I think that, over all of the years, we have come up with exactly one commercially-produced arcade cabinet with angled sticks ... and that took years to find.

While paige may be a little over the top with respect to this particular configuration issue, he isn't wrong.

But, at the end of the day, if you and yours are happy playing it, that is what counts.

 

[BadMouth]

Everyone reads the crapmame site and incorrectly picks up that little tidbit.

....and the newest revision of Saint's book.   
(joysticks are angled in the example and included plans)

[BadMouth]

I think that, over all of the years, we have come up with exactly one commercially-produced arcade cabinet with angled sticks ... and that took years to find.

The funny part is that it was a 2-player cabinet. 

[Unstupid]

Nice!  Looks like you are ready for some 4 player Street Fighter 2 action!   

[Gray_Area]

Looks good, and I'm glad you had fun with it, but yeah there was A LOT of over-designing there. Did you want the monitor angle to be that shallow?....because 25-27" arcade monitor frames typically have slanted top sections that allows for lesser cabinet depth.

[henbury]

Looks good, and I'm glad you had fun with it, but yeah there was A LOT of over-designing there. Did you want the monitor angle to be that shallow?....because 25-27" arcade monitor frames typically have slanted top sections that allows for lesser cabinet depth.

Hi gray-area. I wrote in the text that accompanies the pics that the monitor angle was chosen to maximize the use of gun games. The angle is only the same as a uaii cabinet anyway. Due to that angle on such a large screen, i brought the controls back away from it as much as I could. I described early that size was not a constraint, so I was happy to allow for that depth.

Nice!  Looks like you are ready for some 4 player Street Fighter 2 action!  

Thanks Unstupid. I started googling for a four player street fighter but then realized you must have been sarcastic! I might just configure this to play four player console games instead? I think like everyone else who has more than 4 buttons on the outside players has this in mind? But thanks for pointing that out. I just got told I over-designed, yet somehow I didn't consider that at all.

[paigeoliver]

The Ultimate Arcade II appears to be designed by someone with no experience with actual machines at all. It is a mess that has a laundry list of design flaws, coin doors you can't reach without getting down on the floor,  an almost 90 degree monitor angle on a 4 player machine, 2 piece sides that make it heavier and less structurally sound, overly complex control panel shape that doesn't look like it belongs on the machine, you can only get a dolly under it from the rear and worst of all a whole lot of those design flaws have been copied into COUNTLESS projects other people have made, and some of them are down right dangerous.

[eds1275]

That's a fine looking machine!

[BadMouth]

Although I like harping on the angled joysticks too,
I like the fact that you did something different and it looks great. 

Not enough people here take chances and do something different.
Part of building your own should be trying things that nobody else has done yet. 

[opt2not]

Interesting build, but linking to your project thread in the Main Forum is narcissistic IMO.

[henbury]

The Ultimate Arcade II appears to be designed by someone with no experience with actual machines at all.

You mean the one championed by saint in the second edition of his book, and also sold commercially?

Interesting build, but linking to your project thread in the Main Forum is narcissistic IMO.

Hey man, you're right. Next time I'll just create a separate thread for every new feature.

And then link each of them to my project thread - to put it into context of course.

Although I like harping on the angled joysticks too,
I like the fact that you did something different and it looks great. 

Not enough people here take chances and do something different.
Part of building your own should be trying things that nobody else has done yet. 

Thanks BadMouth, I'm glad someone gets it.

[opt2not]

Hey man, you're right. Next time I'll just create a separate thread for every new feature.

And then link each of them to my project thread - to put it into context of course.

Nice one mate.

[Nephasth]

I think that, over all of the years, we have come up with exactly one commercially-produced arcade cabinet with angled sticks ... and that took years to find.

The funny part is that it was a 2-player cabinet. 

Virtua Fighter, right?

Not wanting to derail this thread, but I found something this morning...


Add another one to the list...

[BadMouth]

(rushes to check manuals and flyers)

 Confirmed!

[nickbuol]

Wow.  Some of you guys are just a bunch of 

This guy has made what a few people consider an error in his design.  It is something that I doubt he will change, so why beat him up about it?  Making a suggestion for "next time" or something is just feedback, but going on and on and on about it doesn't do anything but start arguments about a machine that you will probably NEVER play.

I think that there are other design details that seemed a bit overkill, but hey, it is his cabinet build and I don't know how to weld. 

As for the player 3&4 deal.  I can say, as someone with a 4 player control panel (designed and built in 2005 as my second cabinet, 1st 4-player layout) a lot of people making 4-player layouts, which weren't many at the time, did them angled. I don't think that they were all "15 post, 1st cabinet, newbies...  It was something that "looked" to be correct at the time, and was sort of the "learning era" of the 4-panel build.
With that said, honestly, 3 & 4 player games really don't get played much at my house.  Not because of the layout of the joystick/buttons, but the games just don't get selected.  So it isn't even something that comes up very often, so I just left it and moved on.  When we have people over at the house and some of them want to play a 4 player game, I usually will play #3 or #4 as I've become used to the angle.  To date, only 1 person has said that they couldn't deal with the angled control.  Add a couple more that probably never spoke up about it, mix in the fact that they don't get played too much anyway, and I am not concerned.

Let's let this guy enjoy his build, right, wrong, or indifferent...  Now if he was building it for you or for sale, then it would be a different deal altogether.

Funny enough, you can buy a "professionally built" cabinet from some companies that have angeled #3 and #4 spots. 

At least if someone wanted to "fix" it, it just takes the removal of any artwork on the panel, re-routering the joystick hole, turning the joys stick, and then putting the artwork back on.  Buttons can stay at the angle, it is the joystick direction only that needs to be changed.  For me, I would have to get my artwork remade again.  Maybe someday...

[DarthMarino]

I tested some games with an angled joystick and then again with the stick flat to the screen and had no problem on either configuration. I actually have a slight preference for the angled.  This is a complete non-issue as far as I'm concerned and harping on it isn't even constructive criticism. Good job on the cabinet.

[nickbuol]

I tested some games with an angled joystick and then again with the stick flat to the screen and had no problem on either configuration. I actually have a slight preference for the angled.  This is a complete non-issue as far as I'm concerned and harping on it isn't even constructive criticism. Good job on the cabinet.

+1

[Franco B]

I think there needs to be a post in Project Announcements that links to this thread.

[opt2not]

I think there needs to be a post in Project Announcements that links to this thread.

[henbury]

I think that there are other design details that seemed a bit overkill

Just curious, how so?

[AGarv]

DUDE, you totally didn't get the design memo for AUTHENTIC arcade controls.  

FYI your panel should:

1) Look 90% like an X-arcade tank stick (but should not be a tankstick).
2) Use an "ergo" SF2 button layout (the kind you never saw on a SF2 machine).
3) Use Japanese joysticks (the kind you never used in a US arcade).
4) Use illuminated pushbuttons designed for video poker machines.
5) Panels cannot be 4-player (some people on this forum never have 3 friends over at once, and obviously neither should you).
6) Trigger sticks should be hidden (trackballs should not).

Follow the above to receive oohs and ahs, and deviate from them at your own peril.

[Dawgz Rule]

    What he said.  Don't forget "no duplicate buttons for anything"

My goal in building a cab was to.......

(1) Build something I had never done before
(2) Build a cab that would pose the question, "Where did you purchase that?"

I'll add another post build...

(3) Have people say, "Did you REALLY build that?"

All things in consideration, I would say you hit a home run.  Great build.

[yotsuya]

DUDE, you totally didn't get the design memo for AUTHENTIC arcade controls.  

FYI your panel should:

1) Look 90% like an X-arcade tank stick (but should not be a tankstick).
2) Use an "ergo" SF2 button layout (the kind you never saw on a SF2 machine).
3) Use Japanese joysticks (the kind you never used in a US arcade).
4) Use illuminated pushbuttons designed for video poker machines.
5) Panels cannot be 4-player (some people on this forum never have 3 friends over at once, and obviously neither should you).
6) Trigger sticks should be hidden (trackballs should not).

Follow the above to receive oohs and ahs, and deviate from them at your own peril.

Bitter much?

[AGarv]

DUDE, you totally didn't get the design memo for AUTHENTIC arcade controls.  

FYI your panel should:

1) Look 90% like an X-arcade tank stick (but should not be a tankstick).
2) Use an "ergo" SF2 button layout (the kind you never saw on a SF2 machine).
3) Use Japanese joysticks (the kind you never used in a US arcade).
4) Use illuminated pushbuttons designed for video poker machines.
5) Panels cannot be 4-player (some people on this forum never have 3 friends over at once, and obviously neither should you).
6) Trigger sticks should be hidden (trackballs should not).

Follow the above to receive oohs and ahs, and deviate from them at your own peril.

Bitter much?

Troll and personally insult much?

[yotsuya]

DUDE, you totally didn't get the design memo for AUTHENTIC arcade controls.  

FYI your panel should:

1) Look 90% like an X-arcade tank stick (but should not be a tankstick).
2) Use an "ergo" SF2 button layout (the kind you never saw on a SF2 machine).
3) Use Japanese joysticks (the kind you never used in a US arcade).
4) Use illuminated pushbuttons designed for video poker machines.
5) Panels cannot be 4-player (some people on this forum never have 3 friends over at once, and obviously neither should you).
6) Trigger sticks should be hidden (trackballs should not).

Follow the above to receive oohs and ahs, and deviate from them at your own peril.

Bitter much?

Troll and personally insult much?

No, not really. If I were to personally insult you, you'd know.
 
Look, this isn't grade school. Not everyone gets a gold star. If someone's posting a project here, they're probably expecting feedback. If someone viewing it doesn't like something, should they be expected to bite their tongue? There's some nice things about this cab people like (myself included), and there's some things people don't like (myself included). It is what it is. As long as henbury is happy, that's all that matters. But I am sure he's a big enough boy to take it all in stride.

You, on the other hand...

[yotsuya]

Every cab gets a "Good job, good effort!"

[opt2not]

I'm with Yots on this one. I don't know what it is with recent generations that they have to be coddled so much. All this self-righteous pride that people have now is so irritating.
When people give constructive feedback, based on logical facts, they take it as a negative jab at their efforts, when the basis of feedback is to improve and educate. Everyone thinks they're right, and no one can admit they're wrong.

Given henbury's response to feedback in this thread, plus the redundant Main forum post pointing to his project-thread, I don't think he's looking for feedback but rather just to show-off.
Personally, I think this project is a design monstrosity, obviously built by someone unaware of visual and ergonomic aesthetics. But like Yotsuya said, it's his build and if he's happy with it, great.  Just don't expect everyone to jump on your wagon...

[paigeoliver]

The build quality is great, but people will critique your design if you post it on a public forum, some will be experienced builders, some won't.

I personally think it would have been a lot better with one little change that isn't related to the joysticks and that is to have the front come out near the edge of the panel. It makes the machine more stable and makes it easier to reach that nice looking (brand new, right??) 4 player coin door you have. Most factory big panel cabinets didn't overhang the front all that much and that extra bump in is one of those things someone unfamiliar with real machines did on a cabinet plan a decade ago and it just kept getting copied. I have a deluxe cabinet at home with that same bump in and I wish it wasn't there.

Here is a picture to show you what it would have looked like that way. This isn't so much a "you did it wrong" type of comment as it is a "if anyone else builds this consider doing it this way" type of comment.

[Dawgz Rule]

I don't think it is a matter of everyone getting a gold star nor accepting feedback about their build.  Feedback isn't feedback when it amounts to a bashing session on a cab or a particular part of a cab that doesn't fit with your vision.  More often than not, the bashing seems to come from people who have been on the forum since the "early days" who at times seem to decree what constitutes a good or bad design or build.  When this happens, it really doesn't promote the hobby nor a desire to participate in the forum discussions.   I recall participating in a discussion about using a router for plexi some time ago and warned about melting the plexi (having done it). No sooner said and I have someone going on a crusade to prove that you couldn't melt it with a router.  It was almost obsessive. 

What AGarv (and others) point out has some truth to it and quite frankly, is pretty  funny.  Just scroll through the forum and you will find his points in many a "critique".

Henbury took some good time to thoroughly document a build and to share that with the forum.  Sure, part of it is a pride factor but if he wanted to do it purely for that purpose, one picture would have sufficed.  I found the build to be thought provoking and innovative and walked away with some potential ideas.  It certainly isn't crap and I am not going to stress my panties over angled joysticks.  Staring at Bruce Willis all day.... I might stress over that.

As grandpa always said, "It's just a game".  Back to surfing porn...

[paigeoliver]

It does look a heck of a lot better than my Die Hard cabinet does, and Sega made mine!

[yotsuya]

Dawgz-

You bring up some good points, but the criticisms I've read of this particular cab are all design related, not about his choice of joysticks. AGarv's still butthurt for some reason that most people don't care for Frankenpanels. Why he brought that up in this thread, I don't know.

Paige brings up a great point about the front. That's probably my biggest criticism as well. Any time you risk hitting your head trying to put a coin in, that's an issue. Look at the best classic 4 player panels. The coin door is nowhere near that far back. I think the Simpsons and TMNT cabinets are the best examples of 4 players done right.

[DaveMMR]

DUDE, you totally didn't get the design memo for AUTHENTIC arcade controls.  

FYI your panel should:

1) Look 90% like an X-arcade tank stick (but should not be a tankstick).
2) Use an "ergo" SF2 button layout (the kind you never saw on a SF2 machine).
3) Use Japanese joysticks (the kind you never used in a US arcade).
4) Use illuminated pushbuttons designed for video poker machines.
5) Panels cannot be 4-player (some people on this forum never have 3 friends over at once, and obviously neither should you).
6) Trigger sticks should be hidden (trackballs should not).

Follow the above to receive oohs and ahs, and deviate from them at your own peril.

I look at a lot of project examples (only really comment on a few of them when I really have something to add or I really like something and just need to say "great work") and I don't think I see much critiquing on the actual controls unless it's something that looks to affect overall game play. You bring up some valid points, though #5 (building four-player panels) is often warned against because, oftentimes, the work and expense that goes into making one goes to waste unless you consistently have three people over and are having NBA Jam tournaments every weekend. It's a legit concern commentators bring up, especially when they find people are firing up Pac-Man more often than Gauntlet.

But I find that few people are straight up "mean". Maybe the occasional sarcastic remark but usually criticism is constructive. You either kind of accept it or don't put it on the internet.

[paigeoliver]

I was always a bit of a critic of the general concept of 4 player panels, because in my real world experience 4 player action was few and far between and often the grown men playing the game would just alternate 2 player rather than all squeeze in for 4 player modes.

However if you have young children then 4-player mode will get used a lot. My little sister just had twins 2 months ago and my wife is 7 months pregnant, which means I have started a 4 player project (dedicated TMNT cabinet, mame, 4 buttons per player, nothing but 4-player titles installed).