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Author Topic: U360 Joysticks  (Read 10809 times)

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mytymaus007

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U360 Joysticks
« on: May 31, 2012, 10:04:21 pm »
was thinking about adding an addition control panel to my collection using the U360 joystick for analog purposes. Im just asking because i have hot swappable panels on my arcade and already have 8 way joysticks for fighters and robotron. IM looking to have a dedicated control panel just for Analog joysticks also using the onboard buttons. Is there anyone else using the joystick this way. Also can these analog joystick work with any other Systems besides MAME. I know Atari 5200 used analog sticks. Also can we make a list of analog joystick games that are worth playing. I know of 2 off hand that are OK

1.Food Fight
2. Road Runner

mytymaus007

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 11:03:09 pm »
was thinking about adding an addition control panel to my collection using the U360 joystick for analog purposes. Im just asking because i have hot swappable panels on my arcade and already have 8 way joysticks for fighters and robotron. IM looking to have a dedicated control panel just for Analog joysticks also using the onboard buttons. Is there anyone else using the joystick this way. Also can these analog joystick work with any other Systems besides MAME. I know Atari 5200 used analog sticks. Also can we make a list of analog joystick games that are worth playing. I know of 2 off hand that are OK

1.Food Fight
2. Road Runner

More analog games How are these games with the U360

Afterburner
CyberSled (2 analog sticks per player; two players = 4 sticks)
Jurrasic Park
Maneater
Pursuit
Quarterback
Rail Chase
Red Baron
Solar Assault
Space Harrier
Star Wars Trilogy

Steel Talons
T-Mek
Tail Gunner
Tail Gunner II
Thunderblade
World Series Baseball




ragnar

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 11:12:11 pm »
I'll be frank.  I have u360s and after owning them for a year or more, I wish I got some 4-way/8-way convertables.

There are not enough games to bother with the u360s.  To be honest, the best thing about them is N64 emulation.
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mytymaus007

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 11:14:37 pm »
I'll be frank.  I have u360s and after owning them for a year or more, I wish I got some 4-way/8-way convertables.

There are not enough games to bother with the u360s.  To be honest, the best thing about them is N64 emulation.

Did you ever try them with 49-way joystick games here is a list of games that used them

SiniStar
Blaster
Arch Rivals
Pigskin 621 A.D.
Blitz
Blitz '99
Blitz 2000
NFL Blitz 2000 Gold Edition
NBA Showtime
SportStation
Gauntlet: Legends
Gauntlet: Dark Legacy


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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 11:51:50 pm »
They're helpful with Sinistar (the rest I don't play), and perhaps Road Runner, though I get the feeling there is something missing on the latter (not like I care, as I don't much like the game....) .
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Los Abrazos Rotos

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 04:13:49 am »
I went for U360s but honestly, I'm not at all impressed with the way they feel and would never buy them again - I'm actually replacing them with standard 4/8 way switchable sticks.  They just dont feel like arcade sticks to me ... I've mentioned it before but there is a serious mechanical problem with centering.

I would advise avoiding them!

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 09:13:09 am »
My original cp had a 49-way joystick. Food Fight is a good example of why the 49-way cannot be used as an analog stick; entering your initials (after a game is over) requires throwing food at the specific letters of the alphabet arranged in a circle around your character. With the 49-way, it's impossible to hit all the letters. Eventually I switched to a u360 and now Food Fight plays perfectly!
Robots will kill you.



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Seith

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 10:11:01 am »
Where was this thread a few months ago!  Bought some U360s, ran into Los Abrazos Rotos' same issue with centering, and am a bit shook on the value/quality balance I signed on for...

smalltownguy

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 10:18:29 am »
For those of you who struggle with the U360's...did you install the stiffer springs? It makes a big difference.

Some more discussion here (with comments from Andy Warne):

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=62671.0
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

Seith

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 10:31:37 am »
For those of you who struggle with the U360's...did you install the stiffer springs? It makes a big difference.

Some more discussion here (with comments from Andy Warne):

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=62671.0


I know I did install the stiffer springs... still seems to have some trouble centering about 25-30% of the time.

smalltownguy

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 10:32:25 am »
That sounds like a software issue. Did you email Andy?
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

Seith

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 10:33:27 am »
That sounds like a software issue. Did you email Andy?

I will tonight.  Thanks!

Los Abrazos Rotos

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 11:12:33 am »
Its not a software thing - the majority of the time it doesn't interfere with gameplay.  Its just that the stick doesn't physically return to centre, even when lubed.  The design doesn't allow it.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 11:17:28 am »
Its not a software thing - the majority of the time it doesn't interfere with gameplay.  Its just that the stick doesn't physically return to centre, even when lubed.  The design doesn't allow it.

I've never had that issue with my U360. I have had to fool with the restrictor settings in the software even though I have no restrictor installed, but physically the stick has never given me problems.

If I didn't have a few analog controlled must plays on my cab I'd probably spring for a cheaper switch based stick, but if you need analog control I can't think of a better option.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 11:17:39 am »
Its not a software thing - the majority of the time it doesn't interfere with gameplay.  Its just that the stick doesn't physically return to centre, even when lubed.  The design doesn't allow it.

Both of mine return to center just fine... must not be a design issue.

AGarv

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 11:36:16 am »
You could always use actual arcade analog sticks connected to an Ultimarc A-pac:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/World-Kicks-video-game-control-panels-/220551714853?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3359e81825


P-chan

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2012, 01:27:53 pm »
I went for U360s but honestly, I'm not at all impressed with the way they feel and would never buy them again - I'm actually replacing them with standard 4/8 way switchable sticks.  They just dont feel like arcade sticks to me ... I've mentioned it before but there is a serious mechanical problem with centering.

I would advise avoiding them!

I have a pair of u360s in my pedestal, and octogon restrictors installed.  I think the restrictor is important.  I bought them because I liked that the encoder was integrated (even though 8 inputs per joystick is a little light, 10 would be perfect), and I liked that it had auto 4/8 way switching and analog capability. 

All in all, I didn't spend really any more than a good pair of joysticks AND a good encoder. 

If I had to do it again, I might go with a much cheaper 8 way and a cheap encoder, just because I don't really use it enough.

Mysterioii

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2012, 01:45:23 pm »
Its not a software thing - the majority of the time it doesn't interfere with gameplay.  Its just that the stick doesn't physically return to centre, even when lubed.  The design doesn't allow it.

Andy's reply in the other thread was that the joysticks themselves incorporate no dead zone because MAME itself has a dead zone so as long as you're using MAME that takes care of it.  And I recall an exchange that indicated that your mouse drift issue was remedied by changing a setting in your front end of choice to set the joystick back to analog mode rather than mouse mode, or something to that effect?

If the joysticks themselves are "raw" and have no dead zone I think it would be pretty hard for them to ever be COMPLETELY centered...

AndyWarne

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2012, 03:24:36 pm »
Its not a software thing - the majority of the time it doesn't interfere with gameplay.  Its just that the stick doesn't physically return to centre, even when lubed.  The design doesn't allow it.

There is no issue with the design. As I have mentioned before we will replace your stick if it has this problem. I was under the impression this was OK after you removed the software which was causing the mouse pointer to move, but if not, then we will address it. Just drop me an email.
andy@ultimarc.com

Los Abrazos Rotos

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2012, 05:52:25 pm »
I dont want to return them Andy, I have another one now that does exactly the same thing - I just dont rate them as joysticks, personal preference.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2012, 07:01:46 pm »
I've had mine for over four years and haven't had a single issue with them.

P-chan

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2012, 11:48:49 pm »
I dont want to return them Andy, I have another one now that does exactly the same thing - I just dont rate them as joysticks, personal preference.
Have you tried it on a different computer?

Los Abrazos Rotos

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2012, 04:16:04 am »
Yes, again its personal preference & not a software issue, I just dont like the way they dont mechanically return to centre.  On this basis I would not buy them.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2012, 07:03:46 am »
Yes, again its personal preference & not a software issue, I just dont like the way they don't mechanically return to center.  On this basis I would not buy them.

I have 2 and never had any issue with them returning to center. I would buy them again with out thinking, but that's my personal preference  :cheers:

molton

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2012, 07:31:29 am »
I don't know anything about the u360, but I know most sticks have a spring or something in there for tension, I've had joysticks with centering issues that were fixed by pulling up on the joystick and moving it around while it's in the up position to adjust the spring.  So far so good with that.

edit: I wound up bending the leaf as a more permanent solution, now that definitely has nothing to do with the u360  :blah:
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 03:13:35 pm by molton »

RetroACTIVE

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2012, 12:40:44 pm »
This stick is a perfect all-around controller.  If your looking to build a CPO and have it feel like a classic Wico then you will need to put a Wico in there.  This stick is a Sanwa stick at its core.

Bottom line is that it IS configurable on the fly... dedicated 4 and 8 ways are not.   I have one of these on my new design...  It is used for the dedicated 2/4/8/49/analog/diagonal (qbert) games.  For all other 8way (fighters and vanilla games) I have dedicated P360s.

Besides... you aren't likely to get any better of a customer experience than with Andy.  He is fast, courteous and super fair!

Every emulation cab needs at least one U360!!!!
Happy Gaming!

mytymaus007

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2012, 09:33:46 pm »
This stick is a perfect all-around controller.  If your looking to build a CPO and have it feel like a classic Wico then you will need to put a Wico in there.  This stick is a Sanwa stick at its core.

Bottom line is that it IS configurable on the fly... dedicated 4 and 8 ways are not.   I have one of these on my new design...  It is used for the dedicated 2/4/8/49/analog/diagonal (qbert) games.  For all other 8way (fighters and vanilla games) I have dedicated P360s.

Besides... you aren't likely to get any better of a customer experience than with Andy.  He is fast, courteous and super fair!

Every emulation cab needs at least one U360!!!!

Thanks you this is the answer i was looking for when i started the thread! I to have dedicated everything else but just curious how is the play during Qbert because i thinking of a dedicated 4 way 45 degree set up instead but meanwhile i would use the u360.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2012, 01:13:54 pm »
I have a PC analog joy I was gonna mod to add as a flight stick, but I'm not crazy about the feel.

I was considering a U360 and removing the ball top and adding the grip from an old Thrustmaster joystick.  Seems like the grip buttons would integrate nicely with the U360 interface.

Or is that overkill and is there another analog joy you would recommend for a flightstick conversion?
  2-player upright dual trackball / dual 8-way rotary joysticks - built from scratch

mytymaus007

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2012, 02:40:03 pm »
I have a PC analog joy I was gonna mod to add as a flight stick, but I'm not crazy about the feel.

I was considering a U360 and removing the ball top and adding the grip from an old Thrustmaster joystick.  Seems like the grip buttons would integrate nicely with the U360 interface.

Or is that overkill and is there another analog joy you would recommend for a flightstick conversion?
If your looking for the ultimat flight stick here it is! I have the PC version with the game interface hooks directly to USB I also have a trottle that gets hooked up to the game inerface!

flight stick: http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/95025100.htm

game interface: http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/950800xx.htm

throttle: http://na.suzohapp.com/driving/50818400.htm

I have these in a custom control panel but only issue is that i had an extra joystick and buttons that were hoooked up to the CP that no longer in it, you can add them back in if you want. Let me know if your interesed in buying this set up! The reason im selling is I consolodated to a mini arcade and have no more room fr another control panel!  Cost around $500 but give me n offer if your intereste or if there s anyone else interested!!!!!!

Peja

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2012, 04:44:09 pm »
This stick is a perfect all-around controller.  If your looking to build a CPO and have it feel like a classic Wico then you will need to put a Wico in there.  This stick is a Sanwa stick at its core.

Bottom line is that it IS configurable on the fly... dedicated 4 and 8 ways are not.   I have one of these on my new design...  It is used for the dedicated 2/4/8/49/analog/diagonal (qbert) games.  For all other 8way (fighters and vanilla games) I have dedicated P360s.

Besides... you aren't likely to get any better of a customer experience than with Andy.  He is fast, courteous and super fair!

Every emulation cab needs at least one U360!!!!

Completely agree with the customer service with Andy.  He has been great to me. 

As far as the configurable on the fly, I haven't been able to play around with my 2 U360s yet but does it the controller know which type of controller (2,4,8,analog) to use for which game automatically or is this something that needs to be set in the settings?  I've played a little with pac-man but it seems like it doesn't always respond correctly when turning a corner.  I do have the circular restrictor, longer shaft, and stiffer spring. 

One thing is for sure, they are much lighter throws, compared to the P360s.  They almost feel loose.  I am used to regular arcade cabs and the stiffer joysticks.....so perhaps I just need to retrain myself and get used to the lighter U360s. 

Peja

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2012, 05:09:42 pm »
One thing is for sure, they are much lighter throws, compared to the P360s.  They almost feel loose.  I am used to regular arcade cabs and the stiffer joysticks.....so perhaps I just need to retrain myself and get used to the lighter U360s. 

One thing you might try, if the stiff springs still aren't stiff enough, is take them out, and stretch them out a bit, then reinstall. I've used that trick on buttons to make certain admin buttons far harder to press (so there's no way you could accidentally press one).

Peja

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2012, 05:14:43 pm »
One thing is for sure, they are much lighter throws, compared to the P360s.  They almost feel loose.  I am used to regular arcade cabs and the stiffer joysticks.....so perhaps I just need to retrain myself and get used to the lighter U360s. 

One thing you might try, if the stiff springs still aren't stiff enough, is take them out, and stretch them out a bit, then reinstall. I've used that trick on buttons to make certain admin buttons far harder to press (so there's no way you could accidentally press one).

Good to know.....I will definitely give it a go and see if I notice a difference.  Thanks Dr.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2012, 06:03:35 pm »

Completely agree with the customer service with Andy.  He has been great to me. 

As far as the configurable on the fly, I haven't been able to play around with my 2 U360s yet but does it the controller know which type of controller (2,4,8,analog) to use for which game automatically or is this something that needs to be set in the settings?
Peja

Reconfiguration is not automatic, you need to set that up through your front end.
Happy Gaming!

Peja

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 06:12:06 pm »

Completely agree with the customer service with Andy.  He has been great to me. 

As far as the configurable on the fly, I haven't been able to play around with my 2 U360s yet but does it the controller know which type of controller (2,4,8,analog) to use for which game automatically or is this something that needs to be set in the settings?
Peja

Reconfiguration is not automatic, you need to set that up through your front end.

I am using Hyperspin.  I assume there is a section in the configuration (hyperHQ) to set this up?  Guess I will have to look into it a bit further.  Thanks for the info Retro.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2012, 03:52:22 am »
I don't understand about the centering issue. I've owned 2 of these sticks (with stiff springs) for a while and never had any problem centering. There is a tiny bit of play when the stick is centered, but this doesn't effect anything. In my opinion these are the best allround stick if you want to play different types of games and want to keep your control panel simple with just 1 pair of sticks. They work great on N64 emulator too.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2012, 04:33:24 pm »
mytymaus007,

 You do realize that a lot of the games you listed require triggers / buttons.

 You cant play afterburner very well without the buttons on the stick.. because you also need to control the throttle lever.   You slam it into 'slow' to allow enemy fire to rocket past you.. or you slam it into fast, to get a burst of After-Burner speed, which out-runs enemy fire.   If you stay at the same speed all the time, its far too easy for the enemy to destroy you.. . AND, it makes the game boring as heck.

 You also cant play a game like Cyber Sleds, which used dual trigger sticks.. unless you are going to install some sort of foot buttons.

 Reduce the game list to games you dont need triggers for, and see if you still really want them.

 It might be better to install dual trigger sticks, or a mini-steering wheel, with pull-out pedals.

Edit 1:   Sinistar

 Sinistar cant be played well with any analog stick, unless it has been modified mechanically to be more like the original.  The original did not use springs.  It has a rubber centering spider thats shaped like an 'X'.  This allows for almost no tension in the center area (where most analogs suffer), and progressively greater tension the further you travel away from the center... which gives you a LOT more control.

 Most analogs suffer from spring issues.. where you really have to fight the springs in the center... but once you get past that tension, you accidentally fly all the way to the outside edge of the controller.  This causes very poor accuracy and control due to mechanical issues, even though the controller has the potential for very precise control.

 Many analog games are designed to compensate for the poor user control.. but limiting the need for being accurate.  Intentionally making the game easier.  However, Sinistar doesnt go that route.  Instead of giving the ship a speed of 1 to 10... it gives the ship 1 to 10000.  Even the smallest movement will send your ship from zero to lightspeed... which is why you need that extra added mechanical control.

 If only the industry would wake up to this, and make all analogs use this same technology... then we might actually have some decent analog games being produced.   Those console thumb sticks are the worst culprit too...  As at least with a long handle, you have a little bit more control accuracy.

Edit 2:  World Series Baseball

 WSB does not use a typical analog joystick setup.  Most analogs are sprung in the middle.
WSB is sprung all the way to one side.  This allows you to use the Full travel of the pot, rather than Half the pot.  Its used for both the pitcher and the batter.  Also, the spring tension is a lot greater.. so there will be faster reactions.  A typical center sprung analog might not be able to even register correctly in the game. For example, it might not spring back fast enough to hit a home-run.  The deadzone on a typical analog, along with the bouncing that will happen at center when you let go... may also play an issue too.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 05:05:38 pm by Xiaou2 »

mytymaus007

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2012, 07:16:32 pm »
mytymaus007,

 You do realize that a lot of the games you listed require triggers / buttons.

 You cant play afterburner very well without the buttons on the stick.. because you also need to control the throttle lever.   You slam it into 'slow' to allow enemy fire to rocket past you.. or you slam it into fast, to get a burst of After-Burner speed, which out-runs enemy fire.   If you stay at the same speed all the time, its far too easy for the enemy to destroy you.. . AND, it makes the game boring as heck.

 You also cant play a game like Cyber Sleds, which used dual trigger sticks.. unless you are going to install some sort of foot buttons.

 Reduce the game list to games you dont need triggers for, and see if you still really want them.

 It might be better to install dual trigger sticks, or a mini-steering wheel, with pull-out pedals.

Edit 1:   Sinistar

 Sinistar cant be played well with any analog stick, unless it has been modified mechanically to be more like the original.  The original did not use springs.  It has a rubber centering spider thats shaped like an 'X'.  This allows for almost no tension in the center area (where most analogs suffer), and progressively greater tension the further you travel away from the center... which gives you a LOT more control.

 Most analogs suffer from spring issues.. where you really have to fight the springs in the center... but once you get past that tension, you accidentally fly all the way to the outside edge of the controller.  This causes very poor accuracy and control due to mechanical issues, even though the controller has the potential for very precise control.

 Many analog games are designed to compensate for the poor user control.. but limiting the need for being accurate.  Intentionally making the game easier.  However, Sinistar doesnt go that route.  Instead of giving the ship a speed of 1 to 10... it gives the ship 1 to 10000.  Even the smallest movement will send your ship from zero to lightspeed... which is why you need that extra added mechanical control.

 If only the industry would wake up to this, and make all analogs use this same technology... then we might actually have some decent analog games being produced.   Those console thumb sticks are the worst culprit too...  As at least with a long handle, you have a little bit more control accuracy.

Edit 2:  World Series Baseball

 WSB does not use a typical analog joystick setup.  Most analogs are sprung in the middle.
WSB is sprung all the way to one side.  This allows you to use the Full travel of the pot, rather than Half the pot.  Its used for both the pitcher and the batter.  Also, the spring tension is a lot greater.. so there will be faster reactions.  A typical center sprung analog might not be able to even register correctly in the game. For example, it might not spring back fast enough to hit a home-run.  The deadzone on a typical analog, along with the bouncing that will happen at center when you let go... may also play an issue too.

Good to know doesnt seem worth the trouble for the small list of games!

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2013, 04:23:44 pm »
Hello, old post I know.
I tried my U360 on Food Fight and it just wants to go right.  Mame 148 (Sinistar worked with no issues).  Is there some type of secret to calibrating this?

Thanks,
-SP

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2013, 05:43:11 am »
Certain games have their own calibrations, that you have to set by entering the Service Menu mode.
 Also, delete any old mame files such as ini and nvram.  Certain older files cause conflict with new versions of mame.

 
 As for Sinistar, any analog stick can play it.   But 'play' and 'play well'... are very different.  A Big key to getting more than 1 or 2 levels deep, is superior flight speed & vector direction precision.   A PS2 controllers analog nubs, just dont have the tension to avoid over-shooting issues.  The analog values are correct, but the controller is too loose once you get past the initial centering resistance.

 Its similar with 4way games.   Yes, you can play them with 8ways..  but you lose a lot of playability and control.

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Re: U360 Joysticks
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 07:29:01 pm »
I was quite impressed with the amount of control you get with Sinistar using a U360.  All directions and ability to control speed of ship.  Seems almost spot on.  Still looking for some thoughts on Food Fight :)

-SP