The Complete Noob's First Project Thread - (No Theme/Name yet...)

[walterg74]

 this definitely goes into my notes book

10 coats of paint is probably overkill  .  I've copied over some notes from my project thread on my painting method which got me to here:



"    Surface preparation – my goal is to prep any surface regardless of what the material is, MDF, plywood, aluminium, plastic etc to the same pre-prepared state.  That means all pits, grain, bumps GONE.  For this I use Bondo & automotive single pack putty & primer.  Several coats with sanding in between are needed to achieve the prepared  surface finish.  There are various primers available, cheaper household primers will not get the same finish.  I know, I’ve tried.  Where a mirror finish is concerned, automotive products in general (which are more expensive) are what I recommend.  Now I’m not saying you can’t get good results with cheaper household type products but the quality of products you use does make a difference including how hard it dries and how fine and evenly it sprays from the rattle can or spray gun.

Multiple coats – I’ve found you need at least 3 coats of primer and 3 of paint (preferably 4) to get the desired results including colour depth etc.
 
Eliminate orange peel - not just minimize it, eliminate it completely.  With quality paint, each sanded coat becomes finer and finer as far as the peel effect goes, this is also helped by spray technique.  When spraying, the rule is, spray several light coats as many folk advise (with a short break between each) – except your final pass, make that a little heavier, good paint will settle to a very smooth finish if a slightly heavier final pass is applied.

Allow plenty of drying time - why doesn’t Ond post an update?? – cos I’m sitting around waiting for paint to dry properly!  OK lame excuse (there’s always something you can progress on your cab given you have the time).  Give the paint at least 3 days preferably 5 to dry.   It makes a difference in the next steps.

Sanding -whether you are working on either the primer refining stages or paint refining stages wet sanding is the way to go.  The mechanical action of wet sanding with regular dips in the water with the paper and surface wipe with damp cloth give the best results.  I spend about an hour on any single surface working through grades of paper but I never go beyond 600 grit between coats of paint.  600 grit produces the right surface for paint to adhere to.

Final Finish - this is where the magic happens assuming the proper preparation has gone before it.  So you’ve got your final paint coat to a fine finish using 600 grit wet sanding.  The surface now has a dull kind of plastic look but is entirely peel free.  I work through the next grades perhaps 30 mins on each of 800 then 1200 (you can skip straight to 1200 if you want) and then 2000 grit wet sand.  Now the surface is shiny, it’s nice but under good light swirl scratches are evident.  Medium grade cut and polish compound applied with a soft rag ( I like to use old towels )is next.  Spend about 20 mins doing that and wipe it all away with another clean rag.  Now you have an impressive shiny surface with only the finest swirl marks visible under good light.  If there’s any peel visible YOURE OUTTA THERE, go back to sanding with 600 until it’s gone.
 
Now it’s time for auto finish swirl remover, apply the liquid with a soft cloth – spend about 30 mins on this at least.  Buff clean.  The Grail is in sight, are we there yet?  No.  Finally take a lamb’s wool buffer on a mechanical buffer and buff lightly all over.  Lightly because too much pressure and you can cut through the paint and cause a burn mark which in my case ends up in a screaming fit which sets the neighbourhood dogs barking and startles the neighbours. Did you buff lightly? Then you are there, you’ve reached paint gloss finish nirvana, congratulations! "

There are also some discussion between javeryh (the guy that did Bella's Arcade) and myself about my surface prep and painting here.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=88912.msg1252162#msg1252162

 

Ond

Ok.. come on... Admit it man... you're pullin my leg.... THAT on the picture sir, is a piece of plastic!!! 

Seriously though, VERY good tips, and this DEFINITELY will go into my notes book...!

For this particular project though, I'm not aiming for such a finish, and I in fact want a nice matte finish, or semi-gloss, not really glossy and shiny. But I wil definitely consider this for a following project (yeah.. I 've been warned this gets addictive..  ) So thanks again for pointing this out to me, these steps are priceless

 

[walterg74]

I see what you're saying about the back panel.  Now that you can move the control board out of the way I'd just chop off the stand that hangs off the bottom then reassemble since you were doing a vesa mount.  You won't see the cut piece and it won't do any damage to the fuction and installation of the monitor. 

If you're feeling froggy make an MDF bezel but it isn't necessary, I say chop it. 

CP layout looks good, I recommend playing with it on a variety of games and I also recommend having more space round the joystick than around the last buttons so if you have the room shift right some.  Also putting P1 and P2 side by side along the top will allow you to center a bit better.  You have plenty of room tho so find something comfortable. 

I would bottom mount those joys.  You can drill your center hole then take the mounting plate off and use that to template the area to round in a bit, tho with only 15mm MDF you probably wouldn't need to route in much to get good standoff for your bat height. 

Most I've ever done is 5 coats with primer (I can't bring my self to triple coat primer) and I've had some pretty good success with my paint finishes but too each their own.  Follow OND's advice is the best advice I can give. 

Yeah.. I'l think about it and decide... The only con of chopping it off, is that later this monitor is only good for either another cab or something, as I can't re-assemble it.  cons of the bezel is the work of course... So, we'l see...
For the CP, definitely need a bit more space around thejoystick (on the left since I'm a lefty) but also like I said since the cardboard was even a few cm shorter, I have some space to play around with. I kinda didn't like the P1 P2 along the to in the designs I've seen specially cause a) it would take vertical space I might be more confortable with for my palms, and b)looked kinda of for my little not-too-many-elements CP... but we'll see, it's just a question of playing around with it a bit more during this week that I have to do the filling, sanding, etc. anyway
also good idea about taking of the mounting plate as a template, hadn't thought of that! Bottom mounting is what I had though of first, so good all I have to do now is see how exatcly to route that (what bit, method, etc.)

For paining, so you say you've never done more than 5 coats, and can't bring yourself to triple prime, so that means your standard is 2 primer coats and 3 paint coats, correct?

Ok, lots of good info!! I guess now it's decide on the CP, cut it, prepare prime paint, so let's see how all this goes... 

thanks for the continous support!!!

 

[walterg74]

Just found this thread.  Good build so far.  It makes me want to start building a cab all over again, and I'm not even finished with my first.  I found the most enjoyment from building the major components of the cab.  It's just cool seeing it take shape and know that you are the one that built it.

Thanks!

Yeah, definitely cool watching it take shape like you say 

[walterg74]

Ok, so here's another news flash while I wait for the putty to dry (and which I'll probably have to redo as I didn't know exactly how to apply and went about doing willy nilly...  )

Just looked at my list of favourite vertical games, but not only that, I also looked at the entire list on KLOV, and it seems that you can count the vertical games with 4 or more buttons with your fingers only... Really few and most are obscure ones! In fact the only ones I liked were Toobin' with 5 buttons (and no joy) and Vanguard with 4 buttons...

So I'm starting to re-think this and wonder why do I want to waste 3 buttons that will never get used... I might as well just use a 3 button design, right?

Eeven 3 buttons are few, but several I like at least, and most are just 2 and 1 button...

Would you guys agree?

 

[MaxVolume]

So I'm starting to re-think this and wonder why do I want to waste 3 buttons that will never get used... I might as well just use a 3 button design, right?

Well, yes and no... mostly yes, though.  As the guy who runs the CrapMAME page says repeatedly, MAME is so configurable there's no real need to include a multitude of buttons.  Of course he's mostly talking about admin buttons, but it's a good point in general.  I'll go ahead and say what others are probably thinking and may end up posting before I even finish typing... buttons are dirt cheap, and it's easier to include enough buttons in the first place than it'll be to add them later.  With that said, if you're absolutely sure all the games you want to play don't use more than 3 buttons, you can definitely limit yourself to that.  However, there's always the possibility that a new game will be upgraded to "working" status in MAME that you had forgot about and it really needs more buttons, or you might simply change your mind about certain games.

Personally, I've played a lot more console games than arcade games, but as I've learned more about the actual machines ("Asteroids only used buttons?") I've started to see how the consoles "cheat" in order to use one single controller and a limited number of buttons to play games that originally had more than that.  Obviously now there are gamepads with over a dozen buttons each, but back in the day developers had to contend with having only two or three, and sometimes even just ONE button (ATARI 2600, anyone?).  Given your example of Toobin', you can duplicate the functions of those buttons with the joystick and your existing buttons.  One of them is just START, so that can be your normal 1P/2P start buttons.  Unfortunately the other four aren't as simple as up/down/left/right, but again MAME can be configured to give you the same result with the joystick.  I'd advise against making up/left be the upper-left paddle button, etc. since you might develop carpal tunnel syndrome going back and forth so many times.  What I would do is to make LEFT+button1 be "paddle up/left", RIGHT+button2 can be "paddle down/right", etc.  That way all you have to do is retrain yourself to play by moving the joystick in the direction you want to go (should be natural anyway), and hit either button 1 or button 2 depending on whether you want to go up or down.  This is very similar to some early fighters, where you move the stick to indicate a high or low punch/kick and then push the punch or kick button rather than having a dedicated button for each punch/kick type, which became the standard later.  Yes, it's going to seem a bit weird if you played the game in arcades for years and have perfected your button-mashing technique, but no MAME cabinet's control panel is going to be arcade-perfect for every game, and the ones that are intended to be end up littered with controls that are rarely used and largely redundant.

If anyone ever asked me why I don't have a 4-way joystick on my current project, I'd tell them the same thing.  First of all, the vast majority of games like PAC-MAN, Donkey Kong, TRON, etc. that really need a 4-way are covered by my cocktail table, which does have 4-way sticks.  Also, games like Wizard of Wor, etc. that will be on the current one have been played on consoles for years with 8-way joysticks.  I'll concede that "I can't go left" was a common complaint among casual gamers back in the day because they were actually moving up/left, but if you're precise enough in your movement of the stick, you'll be pressing LEFT most of the time, and if you slip into up/left for a millisecond or two, it shouldn't make much of a difference.  I also only have three buttons on my cocktail, because it had two when I bought it and I uncovered a third smaller hole upon removing the CPOs into which I installed a Sanwa button (actually, maybe a Seimitsu now that I think about it).  Anyway, as it turns out, that third button is almost never used because the vertical 4-way games I have on that cab generally max out at 2 buttons.  I actually use it to switch between game lists, so it doesn't go to waste at all.

The point of all this is that you do have to make sure you have an adequate number of buttons, but as long as you've carefully researched your needs, you can certainly stop when you think you have enough.  I don't know if you've got far enough to be considering admin buttons, but I'll leave you with one piece of advice that I don't think a lot of builders realize:  the game is NOT running when you see your front-end.  That means that all those buttons that are normally assigned to punch/kick, etc. are FREE to use when the menu is showing.  Now of course you don't want to make "high kick" your pause button as well, but with some careful planning, you can assign a combination that won't be pressed accidentally during gameplay.  I have discrete START and EXIT buttons on my cocktail cabinet simply because the panels had holes available for them and I felt there was no point in putting both start buttons on each panel.  With the current project (a mini-upright), I basically rushed the control panel design because it ended up being done by someone else and I needed to get them a set of plans to work from.  That turned out to be a GREAT idea, but I didn't have time to add any extra buttons, and now that it's built I don't think I would have had room for any.  I saw that a lot of people used 1P START + 2P START as pause, but I'm using that as exit since there's no separate button... pause will be some other combo.  Also, I never like putting a "coin" button on any of my cabinets.  It's just so easy to assign a combo in MAME that I can simply tell people about when they come over to play my cabinets instead of advertising it on the control panel or instruction card.  I get that things like "TAB" can't really be assigned to a gameplay button, but again you can create some sort of combo if necessary.  Since it's not a frequently-used key, it's usually better to just have a wireless keyboard handy, but it doesn't necessarily have to be stored inside the cabinet (and don't even get me started on keyboard drawers ).  I was lucky enough to find a wireless keypad that actually had TAB on it (surprisingly, most of them don't) for my cocktail table, but for some reason a lot of the other keys aren't recognized properly by MAME.

Anyway, I hope you got something out of all my ramblings.

[the_gamer]

I really appreciate this thread. Thanks walterg74. I want to build a cab soon and i got a lot of useful tips out of this!

(and don't even get me started on keyboard drawers )

Please do. I don't know what speaks against them and i really would like to know

[walterg74]

Well, yes and no... mostly yes, though.  As the guy who runs the CrapMAME page says repeatedly, MAME is so configurable there's no real need to include a multitude of buttons.  Of course he's mostly talking about admin buttons, but it's a good point in general.  I'll go ahead and say what others are probably thinking and may end up posting before I even finish typing... buttons are dirt cheap, and it's easier to include enough buttons in the first place than it'll be to add them later.  With that said, if you're absolutely sure all the games you want to play don't use more than 3 buttons, you can definitely limit yourself to that.  However, there's always the possibility that a new game will be upgraded to "working" status in MAME that you had forgot about and it really needs more buttons, or you might simply change your mind about certain games.
.
.
.
.

wow... you won the longest post!!!  

Seriously though, yeah, those are all the things I'm considering...

As this is my first cab, and will just remain like that, as a vertical one, and Like I said, all the games I want don't use more than 3 buttons (except the 2 I mentioned which are not really favourites anyway), I might just leave 3.

I later plan on doing a full size one, and yes, that one will have more buttons.

Regarding the admin functions, while I do know about the shift buttons and the like, I believe that for a cabinet as simple as this, I first thought the difference between having FOUR buttons (P1 coin, P2 coin, P1 start, P2 start) and having THREE (since I don't have two but need one for the shift button) didn't justify using it, and it looked cleaner that wat.
But I guess I prefer having that to avoid hitting exit by accident and my prefernece up to now is to have a "coin" button and a "pause" button, which will be P! coin and pause as-is, and P2 coin and exit with the shift. (I still like having both P1 and P2 start buttons though.

So yeah, it's all preference, and I guess I can do a mockup and see how it looks and then decide, but maybe 3 buttons with nice artwork is more than enough.

I'll post some stuff as I can create it.

don't have a single clue as to how I'll design the artwork for this (don't want any characters or the like on this CP, just abstract/colors/shapes surrounding the control/buttons.

 

Edit: little note, it's not just the games I liek that don't use that many buttons. If you go to KLOV, and do a search, you'll find less than a dozen vertical games with more than 3 buttons (and most of them are obscure titles)

[walterg74]

I really appreciate this thread. Thanks walterg74. I want to build a cab soon and i got a lot of useful tips out of this!

(and don't even get me started on keyboard drawers )

Please do. I don't know what speaks against them and i really would like to know

No problem, I think it helps noobs like myself, and to record my progress while collecting lots os usefull tips from the experts at the same time!

I'd like to know about the drawers too... I personally don't care for them. I think they take additional work for no benefit, as to me, they take away from the arcade experience, no matter how well hidden they are. I preffer a back panel/door to service the system from, and just leave the front/sides/whatever intact. 

but that's just my personal taste. 

[Vidiot]

I really appreciate this thread. Thanks walterg74. I want to build a cab soon and i got a lot of useful tips out of this!

(and don't even get me started on keyboard drawers )

Please do. I don't know what speaks against them and i really would like to know

No problem, I think it helps noobs like myself, and to record my progress while collecting lots os usefull tips from the experts at the same time!

I'd like to know about the drawers too... I personally don't care for them. I think they take additional work for no benefit, as to me, they take away from the arcade experience, no matter how well hidden they are. I preffer a back panel/door to service the system from, and just leave the front/sides/whatever intact. 

but that's just my personal taste. 

I have to agree with this as well. I dunno why but those keyboard drawers just seem wrong somehow. lol

[jammin0]

you can get a mini bluetooth keyboard w/trackpad for $20-30.  There are also a bazillion VNC type apps where you can use your smartphone or iPad as a keyboard and mouse if you need to do admin type things.

I understand using a keyboard tray 5-10 years ago but doesn't seem necessary anymore.

[MaxVolume]

wow... you won the longest post!!!  

Edit: little note, it's not just the games I liek that don't use that many buttons. If you go to KLOV, and do a search, you'll find less than a dozen vertical games with more than 3 buttons (and most of them are obscure titles)

Dude, next time I'll just answer "Yes and no... mostly yes, though" and leave you to figure out what I meant.

As for the number of buttons vertical games have, a lot of "bullet hell" shooters are vertical, and not having access to KLOV at work, I didn't know whether some of them might have more than three.  Didn't seem likely, so it's not surprising that it is in fact the case.

I'm a little confused when you talk about "obscure titles".  I sort of thought that one of the chief reasons we build MAME cabs was because some little gem we found through MAME wasn't available on "1001 Greatest Arcade Hits Ever" for the PC/PS2/PS3/360/Wii/etc. or on those 60-in-1 boards that claim to have every game "anybody would really want to play".  Granted, I didn't play a lot of arcade games as a kid, but there are a lot of games that I never would have known about if it weren't for MAME, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

I'm not really sure you got my point about MAME's configurability, though.  You don't need a dedicated "SHIFT" button... it doesn't need to be mapped to the "SHIFT" key to generate a different keypress, and it doesn't have to be the button wired as your I-PAC shift button.  I actually need to download the MiniPAC programming utility to turn off the shifting function on my cocktail cab anyway.  You can assign any button to cause P1 start to pause and P2 start to exit, and it will work flawlessly until you hold it down and press one of the start buttons.  All you have to do is make PAUSE = button x AND P1 start and EXIT = button x AND P2 start in your MAME settings.  As much experience as gamers have with combos, it seems really odd that they don't understand that you don't need a single dedicated button for every function.

I'll address keyboard drawers in another post... this one is probably too long already. 

[MaxVolume]

I really appreciate this thread. Thanks walterg74. I want to build a cab soon and i got a lot of useful tips out of this!

(and don't even get me started on keyboard drawers )

Please do. I don't know what speaks against them and i really would like to know

Since it's not as obvious as I thought... it's just like Walter says, they detract from the arcade experience, which is the whole reason behind building a MAME machine to begin with.  Maybe at one time they were necessary, but wireless keyboards have become so cheap and compact, I don't see any reason why someone needs a mouse and keyboard hiding inside their MAME cabinet.  I've already said that my first attempt at SUPER GAMES MUSEUM was thwarted by my internet computer dying so I had to pull the mobo, but prices have come down so much that nobody should need (or even want) to surf the 'net on their MAME cabinet.  Not very ergonomic, just for starters.

Anyway, there wasn't any great dark secret behind my loathing of keyboard drawers on MAME cabs, just that they fly in the face of the very motivation to build such a thing.  I feel the same way about spending time, money and energy building a huge cabinet and then the computer's still in its case sitting next to the thing in plain view.  Again, I am being a bit lazy and using a complete PC in the case (including floppy and DVD-ROM drives that I don't need) in the FLYNN'S cab, but it's a mini-desktop that not only fits the footprint of the cab perfectly, it's also a heavy-as-all-hell IBM ThinkCentre case that adds some nice authentic-feeling weight to the bottom of the cab, and it's at least going inside the cabinet.

I'll step off the soap box now.   I'll pre-emptively state that I'm not the guy who runs the CrapMAME site, but I swear that guy must be my "brain twin" when I read some of the things he says about those cabs. 

[walterg74]

Dude, next time I'll just answer "Yes and no... mostly yes, though" and leave you to figure out what I meant.

Nahh it was just a joke (hence the laughing guy...) so chill...

I'm a little confused when you talk about "obscure titles".  I sort of thought that one of the chief reasons we build MAME cabs was because some little gem we found through MAME wasn't available on "1001 Greatest Arcade Hits Ever" for the PC/PS2/PS3/360/Wii/etc. or on those 60-in-1 boards that claim to have every game "anybody would really want to play".  Granted, I didn't play a lot of arcade games as a kid, but there are a lot of games that I never would have known about if it weren't for MAME, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

Hmm maybe "obscure" isn't the word, I'll be more literal and say they're mostly unknown piece of crap games, those that are listed and use more than 3-4 buttons... Now is it clear?  

And btw, no, that's not the reason we build MAME cabinets... that may be the reason for the MAME project, but IMHO, the person that buildsa cab does so to actually play their favourite games, and not just accumulate crappy ones (although there are of course exceptions...)

I'm not really sure you got my point about MAME's configurability, though.  You don't need a dedicated "SHIFT" button... it doesn't need to be mapped to the "SHIFT" key to generate a different keypress, and it doesn't have to be the button wired as your I-PAC shift button.  I actually need to download the MiniPAC programming utility to turn off the shifting function on my cocktail cab anyway.  You can assign any button to cause P1 start to pause and P2 start to exit, and it will work flawlessly until you hold it down and press one of the start buttons.  All you have to do is make PAUSE = button x AND P1 start and EXIT = button x AND P2 start in your MAME settings.  As much experience as gamers have with combos, it seems really odd that they don't understand that you don't need a single dedicated button for every function.

Ah.. gotcha... yeah for some reason I kept thinking you need a dedicated shift button/key... In that case, even better, I don;t need that extra clumsy button... We'll see...

 

[walterg74]

Ok, so no updates for a while due to a combo of bad weather, social stuff, etc...

I did manage to learn something: don't go spreading putty/filler willy-nilly for no reason...

Did that this past weekend, (don't know why) and found myself with a lot of filler in places that didn't need it at all...

So I spent the time sanding it all away practically, leaving only in the screw holes area, and in the part where the top panel joins the angled top panel, like so:









So as you can see, besides putting excess filler (gone in the pics above), seems in the places it DID have to go it was not applied 100% correctly, since I was left with tiny holes still...

so I have just applied more filler (more discretely this time.. ) and left it like this now...







So now I guess I have to wait for it to dry, sand off the excess and see if this time it's ok

After that, I need to finalize the choice for bezel vs mount, and cut the ctrol panel already!

Speaking of that.. for someone who did it already, do you use the router for the joystick? (if you want to bottom mount it)

And then.. sand and finally start painting please!!!

Sadly I will be delayed about 1 month, since I'm leaving for Europe for work for 2 weeks this saturday, and then I'm taking vacation for another 2 weeks, so mixed bag of joy for vacation time (woo hoo!  ) and sad to have to make a pause in finishing the cab...

Hopefully I'll still be able to come around and read posts and post back!

So 'til next time!!

[MaxVolume]

Dude, next time I'll just answer "Yes and no... mostly yes, though" and leave you to figure out what I meant.

Nahh it was just a joke (hence the laughing guy...) so chill...

No biggie... didn't wanna come off as too harsh there, it just bugs me when people complain about long posts, e-mails, etc. but when someone is "concise" the message doesn't get across.

I know there are a LOT of truly crappy games in MAME (500 flavors of nudie mahjong, anyone?), but there are some real gems that most people would probably consider "crap" just because they've never heard of them.  Don't know specifically which ones you were talking about, but I just had to make the point that even with the ever-expanding catalog of games that have been released on compilations, Xbox Live or Virtual Console, there are still some very obscure but very good games you'll only be able to play via MAME.  Even prototypes like Freeze are often particularly entertaining.  Just like there's more to '80s music than the #1 hits, if you're gonna go so far as to build a MAME cabinet, it doesn't really make sense to only include games that have already been released for every home computer, console and cellphone known to man.

As for the shift button, nope, you don't need that.

[walterg74]

Iiiiiiiii'm back!!!   


Ok, so not abandonded or anything but rather a combo between my trip to Europe taking a month in total, plus the fact that when I got back we have had the longest month with rains ever, meaning I couldn't work on this on weekends because of course it was raining...

But anyway, got some progres and some tools/pics to share with my fellow noobs, so coming right up! Hang on....

[walterg74]

Great... I just type in a big ass post and something got screwed up, login dissapeared and I got a "not authorized" error and LOST my text, damnit 

Don't feel like re-writing everything right now, so I'll be back in a while later today. Sorry

[walterg74]

Ok, here we go again... trying to remember wtf I wrote.... 

Starting off with a post for the noobs like myself, who may not have seen some of these (as I myself hadn't).

Last we left off, I had gone off to Europe which, in what concerns the cab project, was also good since I was able to get my hands on some tools which I had bought in the US and that a colleague of mine brought over for me 

One thing I was lacking, as you may recall, were the countersink bits or the all in one drill+countersink, since they don't sell them in my country. For my fellow noobs, these are the ones:



These look really cool and much nice than just screwing around  Still, you only wanna use them where applicable and looks nice, no point in just using them willy nilly....

Next items I got which I was lacking (and that is also not available in this pos country I live in) were the slot cutting bits for t-molding. Granted, this small cabinet will not use t-molding, but hey, I gotta be prepared for when I start building the big ass cab, right? Might as well get it now.. 

These are the ones:





I got the "standard" 1/16" regularly used, and also one size bigger (I believe it's 3/32" or something like that) in case it's useful for any other project I might get into...

Lastly,  I also got a couple of more bits, that are called "roundnose" bits, and the idea was to get the type of rounded finish on the wood that Koenig had gotten with his milling machine. These are the ones:



In reality, I have already assembled mine, and I'm not gonna go around screwing with it just to try this, but I'll definitely be trying out how these work on some pieces of scrap wood (and also how they're limited since they don't have bearings and the like and don't know how exactly you avoid cutting up your precious piece of wood all over the place...

Ok, so that concludes my little woodworking/tools basics noob-2-noobs, hope you all got a glimpse of some of these tools and get familiar with them now.

I'll continue this with a new post resuming the actual WORK now

Later! 

[walterg74]

Ok, back to work....

Last I left off, I was in the middle of the dilema of making a harness for the monitor, or chopping off the extra plastic....

After thinking about it some, I decided I wasn't gonna use the monitor in anything else but a cab, and so chose the "chop off" option. Here is what
I was left with:



The panel for holding this I had already made, and I went ahead and used the newly acquired drill bits for the vesa mounting. Here it is front and back:





Oh yeah.. one post pack I said don't use if not needed didn't I....? Well I had to try it... 

Anyway, here it is fastened to the monitor through the 4 vesa mounting screws:





Vertical is what I was going for so....



So everything perfect right? Well, not quite... seems when I went to fit it into the cab, the two side strips that this plaque rests on were not 100% lined up....



Nothing major, but still needed fixing... Took a little from the bottom left and top right of the monitor-supporting plaque, and voila!





That'll do...

Coming up next, control panel time! See ya then! 

[walterg74]

Ok, control panel...

One thing that worried me, was that the edge of the control panel facing the player, and the front little panel of the cab that also faced the player, both had straight cuts.... Ugly, dangerous, you name it...

I decided to try out a little rounding bit on some scrap wood, until I got something I like, then risked it on the control panel piece...   Here's what I got:





Not bad... now the edge won't cut into my wrist/forearm, which is no small thing... 

Oh, btw, that "difference"/ridge you see on the side totally dissapeared with some light/really quick 30 seconds of sanding.

Next thing that puzzled me, looking at Koenig's design was: "how the hell does the plexiglass get support?"  There's no tabs, nothing I can see, etc... So wtf???

I decided what I was gonna do is have it wrest on the control panel itself. Plexi's supposed to be 3mm thick, so I used yet another router bit (getting to love these...) to have a little cut along the edge that is 3mm thick for the plexi to rest on, and that from the edge was about the same (don't remember now if 3mm or 4mm, something like that) with the idea that the plexi rests there. Enough for it not to fall through but not that much that it will be ugly...
Hope you can see it on the picture:



No?

How about now?





Better? Good 

Here's a loose placement on the cab to show how it goes:



Next up, part II of what I have so far of the CP! 

[walterg74]

Let's not lose momentum or the next post will be in another month... 

Continuing with the CP, decided to continue with the same printout I had used for the shoebox mockup.... Just went for it and marked the centers with a pencil, got this:



But of course there's always a problem... 

For the holes, I was using those spade bits or whatever they're called that Koening had used, but for the buttons, you need either 28mm or 30mm, and I only had 20mm and 25mm, and the next size up available in stores was 32mm (button goes right through).

I did have a 30mm *cupsaw* bit, but it was crap! don't know exactly how people use these, but it was all wobbly and the results would have been disastrous, and I certainly didn't wanna mess up my CP piece that I had worked so hard at so far...

What to do?  Oh wait... didn't I just buy a Dremel 4000???  Hell yeah!!!! 

So... did all the holes in 25mm, like so:



Of course, buttons don't fit....





So with my trusty Dremel, and a little sanding drum (Grit 60 I think it is), it was just a matter of sticking the thing in the hole (that's what she said!  ) and just going round and round until the needed size was reached:





Awesome... 

Last thing I did was place the control loosely to trace the metal plaque on the bottom or "inside" of the CP like so:



And that's all I have done so far for the CP, which was this past weekend.

Pending:

- Make the holes on the corners for attaching the CP (with countersink of course )

- Route the control part so that the metal plaque is "lifted" upwards and enough of the actual control peeps through the hole. For this, I bought a routing bit for the dremel, and since I also have the depth cutting guide I ought to be able to do a nice even leveling in.

***** Question for the experts ****: By the way, how much can I "eat off" the wood to allow the control to be raised as much as possible and yet leave enough for the screws to have something to hold on to and be sturdy??? The panel is 15 mm mdf.  *********

Next post, something on the back panel.... brb... 

[walterg74]

Ok, here we go... last project post for today (of actual work...).

Back panel...

I'm going to screw it like Koening did, but I really like the countersink thing, so I went for that in the corners like so:



The idea of ventilation he did I also liked, so I did the same in about the same place, only with 20mm holes instead of his I think it was 24mm. Looked good as far as I see:





Lastly, I also did another button sized hole at thetop left for power on:



Pending:

- Another hole for the female power plug. For this, I go an old PC power supply I will take that part off of (sadly I don't have anyplace I can just buy it separately...).

One thing I *didn't* do, was the big holes for the speakers....   It's not that I don't like how it looks (although for even considering that I'd have to think I'd actually be looking at the BACK of the cab instead of the front playing...  ), but I admit I've been back and forth on it. But the real reason is that he mentions that "a lot of tvs,lcds come with the speakers that way anyway"... I'm sorry but no... just no... That just goes against every sound design guideline I can think of...  Sound's supposed to be directed towards you, not away from you....

I even did a couple of tests with a laptop and a pair of speaker I bought for the cab, trying facing away from me, towards me but covered by the laptop screen, and a little to the side so the sound comes fully towards me, and without a shadow of a doubt, this last one was the best, and the sound seemed to come directly from the screen/game. Really great!

Only problem is I can't pull that off in this cab, just too small.... From behind the monitor but still facing towards the player it was still pretty good and sound seemed to be coming from the screen/game as well, so I think that's what I'm going to try to fit somehow...

These are the speakers by the way:





Nothing fancy but they sound real good and I don't need hundred dollar speakers to play 80's games...  I'll swear by these since the sound they bring out of my childhood favourites had excellent quality and really put me "in the game".

Buttons are blue, speakers were blue (though with my new placement they won't show), that was the idea, and maybe painting the cab black with some blue details and some nice artwork... and by the way, welcome to suggestions as to what you think a nice color or color/combo would be for this... Keep in mind I have those blue buttons, plus the white P1/P2 ones, and the controls are bat tops in black (although I can try to change the tops wich I think I might be able to get here).

Allright, next post regarding advance will be on the weekend I guess, hope to finish up these pending details so I can move on to the paint phase!!!

and speaking of that, I need some advice from the woodwork expertas again if possible, but that's in a small little post by itself coming up so as to not mix it!! 

L8r

[walterg74]

Ok... here's my question for the experts...

Since I hope to take care of the pending details this weekend (including those that you had suggested to "chop off" a little of the front squares so light can bleed through evenly to the marquee), I would (with luck) pass on to the paint phase...

So I know we talked about coats, and sanding, etc. but I just can't grasp how to start...

So can you complete my little mini-step-by-step of how I'd have to do it?

I start with my cab of MDF, so I would:

1) Sand first (?) with xx(?) grit until when? Till it looks smooth and even to me??

2) Put on a coat of primer (any particular color helps for coverage of paint later?) with? (brush/roller)?

3) Repeat one and two above? With a different grit? (which one)

4) Repeat again but instead of primer with the actual paint now? and again, recommended grit and brush or roller for the paint?

Wether brush or roller, any particular type I should ask for so I don't get a cheap-o that'll ruin the finish?

One last question, out of curiosity since I'm just beginning and probably won't try it for now, but it was mentioned that wet sanding was a good (if not the better) option for sanding.... the questions are:

1) You can't do that with an electric sander right? Just manually?

2) Does that apply to MDF too? I though water was a no-no for MDF making it swell up.. (I know wet sanding is not soaking wet, but still...)

Thanks for your help!!! 

Til next week or next replies whatever comes first! (hope it's the replies!!  )

L8r. 

[PL1]

First, start by reading and heeding the wiki and posts by Ond here and here and many others where he shares his wisdom and experience.   

Wether brush or roller, any particular type I should ask for so I don't get a cheap-o that'll ruin the finish?

A foam roller should give you the desired finish, unless you are trying for high gloss.

2) Does that apply to MDF too? I though water was a no-no for MDF making it swell up.. (I know wet sanding is not soaking wet, but still...)

Water directly on bare MDF = bad.

Water on primer = OK.

Don't sand through the primer to bare MDF and you'll be OK.


Scott

[Hockeyboy]

I love how you are going through and explaining and asking at the same time. Gives some of us some hints for potential "gotcha" moments.

Looking very nice so far - keep it up! 

[Le Chuck]

No need to sand the MDF beforehand but since you've filled some screw holes you need to sand those areas with a 200 grit or so to even them out to the same texture as the bare MDF. 

I like rattle can primer, just a preference.  Nice even no-drip coat.  Let dry, sand with 200 to knock the fuzz off, prime again, sand again.  Pick a color.  Rattle can is great, so is brush.  Nice even no-drip coats, let dry and sand with 300, repeat paint, switch to wet sanding and use a higher grit paper.  Lather rinse repeat until you're satisfied or polishing a quarter inch thick layer of paint that looks like glass.  Then, if you really want to get froggy you can start clear coating but again, I never do this on MDF.  I usually stop at 5 coats including 2 of primer. 

[PL1]

No need to sand the MDF beforehand

One very minor quibble with the above.

I agree that there's no need to sand the already smooth MDF (assuming no scratches), but if there is an exposed cut edge that won't get t-molding or a routed/rounded edge there are probably imperfections to sand.

[/nitpicking]


Scott

[walterg74]

First, start by reading and heeding the wiki and posts by Ond here and here and many others where he shares his wisdom and experience.   

Wether brush or roller, any particular type I should ask for so I don't get a cheap-o that'll ruin the finish?

A foam roller should give you the desired finish, unless you are trying for high gloss.

2) Does that apply to MDF too? I though water was a no-no for MDF making it swell up.. (I know wet sanding is not soaking wet, but still...)

Water directly on bare MDF = bad.

Water on primer = OK.

Don't sand through the primer to bare MDF and you'll be OK.


Scott

Wow.. looks like a lot of reading to do! I'd better get on it 

Thanks for the pointers!!

 

[walterg74]

I love how you are going through and explaining and asking at the same time. Gives some of us some hints for potential "gotcha" moments.

Looking very nice so far - keep it up! 

Thanks for the encouragement, I'll try to keep it up!

 

[walterg74]

No need to sand the MDF beforehand but since you've filled some screw holes you need to sand those areas with a 200 grit or so to even them out to the same texture as the bare MDF. 

I like rattle can primer, just a preference.  Nice even no-drip coat.  Let dry, sand with 200 to knock the fuzz off, prime again, sand again.  Pick a color.  Rattle can is great, so is brush.  Nice even no-drip coats, let dry and sand with 300, repeat paint, switch to wet sanding and use a higher grit paper.  Lather rinse repeat until you're satisfied or polishing a quarter inch thick layer of paint that looks like glass.  Then, if you really want to get froggy you can start clear coating but again, I never do this on MDF.  I usually stop at 5 coats including 2 of primer.

Thanks for the great advice! I actually did get a couple more sheets of sandpaper, some for wetsanding, so we'll see how that goes...

I like the idea of the spraycan, but just in case, this is what I can get here, is it ok? (I know one of the pics was for plastics so it's not for this...):







All the same brand, first pic seems to be multisurface, comes in matte or gloss white, and gloss black, second pic sems to be the ones for plastic, and the third *seemed* to be specifically for wood (same brand, different origin, probably brazil), and came in grey and white.

What do you think?  (and how much would I need for this small cab? Is one can enough for the primer?

Thanks!! 

[walterg74]

No need to sand the MDF beforehand

One very minor quibble with the above.

I agree that there's no need to sand the already smooth MDF (assuming no scratches), but if there is an exposed cut edge that won't get t-molding or a routed/rounded edge there are probably imperfections to sand.

[/nitpicking]

Yep, understood... trying to leave those parts (if any) smooth

Thanks!



Scott

[PL1]

FIFY. Those nested quotes can be tricky.

No need to sand the MDF beforehand

One very minor quibble with the above.

I agree that there's no need to sand the already smooth MDF (assuming no scratches), but if there is an exposed cut edge that won't get t-molding or a routed/rounded edge there are probably imperfections to sand.

[/nitpicking]


Scott

Yep, understood... trying to leave those parts (if any) smooth

Thanks!

[walterg74]

FIFY. Those nested quotes can be tricky.

No need to sand the MDF beforehand

One very minor quibble with the above.

I agree that there's no need to sand the already smooth MDF (assuming no scratches), but if there is an exposed cut edge that won't get t-molding or a routed/rounded edge there are probably imperfections to sand.

[/nitpicking]


Scott

Yep, understood... trying to leave those parts (if any) smooth

Thanks!

Tell me about it! 

Fixed

Now about those cans...   

[Le Chuck]

FIFY. Those nested quotes can be tricky.  Especially when they're nested in a quote-like quoting manner in which they are nested in a series of quotes.

No need to sand the MDF beforehand because nested quotes are tricky

One very minor quibble with the above about nested quotes.

I agree that there's no need to sand the already smooth MDF (assuming no scratches), but if there is an exposed cut edge that won't get t-molding or a routed/rounded edge there are probably imperfections to sand and nested quotes.

[/nitpicking] [/nesting] [/quoting in a nesting manner]


Scott

Yep, understood... trying to leave those parts (if any) smooth because they are so totally nested

Thanks!

Tell me about it!      creepy?  I think so, here's a few more   

Fixed

Now about those cans...  and quotes... that are nested.  In a nestedly manner. 

[walterg74]

Especially when they're nested in a quote-like quoting manner in which they are nested in a series of quotes.

because nested quotes are tricky

with the above about nested quotes.

[/quoting in a nesting manner]

because they are so totally nested

   creepy?  I think so, here's a few more   

 and quotes... that are nested.  In a nestedly manner. 

Ok, we got the message... 

Now about those cans...   

[walterg74]

Allright... weekend's here again, and time to do a little work...

Today I did the final tidbits I had pending, basically a hole in the back panel for the power supply connector, the four corner holes to fasten the control panel, reducing a little bit the 4 pieces of wood in the marquee area so that light goes through and I don't get the 4 dark spots (as it had been pointed out to me in a previous post, and the hole to raise the control a little... So I guess most of it was just basic stuff, except the routing for the control, so here are some pics.

Initial "carving", caveman style, with the dremel and a routing bit, pics show progressive butchering  :





Then here is the finished part, where I managed to clean it up a bit (not a lot, definitely not perfect, but it'll do for my first go at this (and you can't see the bottom anyway):





Finally, here I'm trying out how the control fits into it:



That seems to be more than enough.  The control sticks out far enough, and I can't carve out more anyway or there will be too little material left (already it's kinda thin...). I'm left with 6mm MDF, plus the 2mm of the control plate, for a total of 8mm.  Now it's off to the hardware store to get some adequate screws that are just the right length for this... (maybe I'll add some washers, idk... 

So anyway, I guess as far as the building goes, I'm done... I will now move on to the priming/painting phase. Being that I haven't gotten any replies yet to my paint / cans question, I guess I'll give it till tomorrow morning since it's late here anyway, and if I don't get any replies I'll just ask at the store about which of those cans will suit my needs... 

I also cleaned up the cab with some rags, etc. to make sure there's no dust left on it. Here's the "finished" cab ready for priming:







Meanwhile, hoping to get an answer to the paint thing, I leave you with another question...

Since this cabinet will be used for vertical games, most of which are old anyway, and they shouldn't require a "powerhouse" of a machine to run, I will be probably be sticking a relatively old computer in here (if the components fit, which seems a bit complicated but *maybe* doable...), can you recommend a software setup for the computer?  I have this 75MB "tiny xp" version, would that work? And what would you suggets for mame version + frontend?

Hope you enjoy my post, see you all later!

 

[walterg74]

No need to sand the MDF beforehand but since you've filled some screw holes you need to sand those areas with a 200 grit or so to even them out to the same texture as the bare MDF. 

I like rattle can primer, just a preference.  Nice even no-drip coat.  Let dry, sand with 200 to knock the fuzz off, prime again, sand again.  Pick a color.  Rattle can is great, so is brush.  Nice even no-drip coats, let dry and sand with 300, repeat paint, switch to wet sanding and use a higher grit paper.  Lather rinse repeat until you're satisfied or polishing a quarter inch thick layer of paint that looks like glass.  Then, if you really want to get froggy you can start clear coating but again, I never do this on MDF.  I usually stop at 5 coats including 2 of primer.

Ok then, going with your "5 coat standard", and since I have the cab ready, does this sound good?:

1) Apply coat 1 of primer, let it dry
2) Sand with 200 "normal" (orange/red regular sand paper for wood). I assume it's a light sanding, and not a "furious" one, right?
3) Apply coat 2 of primer, let it dry
4) Sand again, once more with 200 in the same fashion
5) Apply coat 1 of paint, and let it dry
6) Sand the first paint coat with 300 "normal" sand paper (so same as the previous paper, just a bit higher grit)
7) Apply coat 2 of paint, let it dry
Sand again but this time wetsanding, with higer grit  (I currently have 400 and 600 for wetsanding)
9) Apply coat 4 of paint
Done? Or something else...?  (except the clear coating which you said you don't do on mdf anyway).

I guess I could either finish at the 3rd coat of paint, or wetsand coat 2 with 400, apply coat 3, wetsand with 600, and apply coat 4... (And still the question would be, after you apply the last coat, do you do something else to it, or that's it?)

Thanks LeChuck!!

[Le Chuck]

If you're going to sand the final coat it'll be like 1200 grit wet sanding but I doubt it will be necessary since the last coat should be pretty light to just even everything out.  That's my experience at least, your mileage may very.  Also, light sanding throughout, you don't want to eat through the layer you just laid.

[walterg74]

If you're going to sand the final coat it'll be like 1200 grit wet sanding but I doubt it will be necessary since the last coat should be pretty light to just even everything out.  That's my experience at least, your mileage may very.  Also, light sanding throughout, you don't want to eat through the layer you just laid.

Ok, cool. Thanks for the quick reply!

I went to the store to get some screws & stuff, and picked up some more sandpaper, 300 & 400 which I was lacking.

Also since nobody commented on the primer I went ahead and bought the gray one shown in the 3d picture. The store guy said they were all pretty much the same, although he didn't seem very knowledgeable...   

Guess weather permitting I'll try to prime tomorrow 

Later! 

[Steven kurylec]

Hi im new to the forum and am really enjoying your project so far! Do it for that noobs haha, i started my forst project a couple of weeks ago so all the questions your asking are really helping me out! (y)