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Author Topic: what servo amp for happ hack?  (Read 7780 times)

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Brian74

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what servo amp for happ hack?
« on: May 22, 2012, 09:26:31 pm »
I got my hands on a happ wheel to hack. I know I need a brush type amp but which one? I havent found any that sharkfactor used. Therr ade a bunch of different models on Ebay but they have like 10 dip switches. Any help would be great!
         

BadMouth

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 11:24:05 pm »
Pretty much any one that can handle more than 6 AMP will work.

Some info on mine in this thread:
Advanced Motion Controls 30A8T
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=113040.0

Check out Brad808's build:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=115186.0
(I think he mentions the model he used somewhere in there)

Probably some useful info in mbasile's thread also:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=114400.0

There is an issue with centering feedback causing a constant wobble.
Some have worked it out by turning centering feedback way down in each game until it goes away.
Some have never been able to get it good enough for their liking.
I'm determined to find a solution, but am busy building a standard cab at the moment.

Just so you know what to expect ahead of time.

brad808

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Re: Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2012, 09:07:18 am »
+1 on everything badmouth said. I also used the 30a8t. It's unfortunate that so many people are having problems with the "wobble". I believe another person  on these boards that has been able to get it working properly is Scottoking. I have a hard time searching on my cellphone but I believe that the two of us both used the original logitech driving force (no ex, no pro, etc). Not really sure if it makes a difference but if you haven't picked up a donor it might be a consideration. One day I might get ambitious and try to make up a guide with pics and videos showing the entire hack and setup of the amc to try and help the rest of the guys see where they might have done something different. Once you get it working properly it is a pretty sweet thing 8)

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Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2012, 01:30:26 pm »
Thats for the info guys! One thing I love about this site is there is always someone you can turn to for help  :applaud: I bought a logitech wingman formula force gp way back when. So I am going to try to use that as a donor. It works with pc and ps3. One of the problems with it is that it only has 6 buttons. So to try to cover all the buttons I need I got a wired ps3 controller. One good thing about this wheel is that the button have common ground and are wired with small gauge wire, not ribbon. I bought 50k and 100k pot and tried them out already. They seem to work fine. I will have to mod them a bit to make them fit. But hey, if this was easy everyone would do it. I also bought a VGA to RGBS/CGA/AV/S video PC to arcade jamma game monitor adapter. My plan was to use the 29 inch monitor in there but the burn in is too bad. So I will be using a 26 led lcd.
         

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2012, 01:52:16 pm »
Couple other questions. Power supply  :banghead: I have ready ppl using different voltage and different ps. So what is a person to use?  :dunno I just ordered my amc and I think i got it from the same guy on ebay as you 2 did.  :laugh2: My other question is the vr buttons. Is it possible to wire them up the way they are or am I going to have to replace the buttons? For the lights I have 2 pac-drives I plan on using for the vr buttons and a little under glow.
         

BadMouth

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2012, 04:07:56 pm »
Couple other questions. Power supply  :banghead: I have ready ppl using different voltage and different ps. So what is a person to use?  :dunno I just ordered my amc and I think i got it from the same guy on ebay as you 2 did.  :laugh2: My other question is the vr buttons. Is it possible to wire them up the way they are or am I going to have to replace the buttons? For the lights I have 2 pac-drives I plan on using for the vr buttons and a little under glow.

Original cabs usually have a 24v power supply, so that's what most of us are using.
Just do a search on fleabay.
I think mine is a 15AMP.

I have never had the original buttons, but I can't imagine why they couldn't be used.
gbeef is using them on his cab:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=111231.120

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 07:58:21 pm »
I have that daytona usa 2 cab that Im converting. So I can use the ps in that?
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 08:59:14 am »
I have that daytona usa 2 cab that Im converting. So I can use the ps in that?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sega ffb motors use AC power (100V IIRC).

If it has some other output that puts out 24v, it would work if it can handle the current.
I don't know why it would have an output like that though.  :-\

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2012, 09:02:00 am »
Oh so you mean a jamma supply?
         

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Re: Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2012, 09:44:11 am »
No that won't work either, most of those are 12v. Check online for a 24v dc power supply with around 6a.

original buttons work fine

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2012, 09:49:44 am »
I think this is the one I have (didn't get it from this seller):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-to-DC-24V-15A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Converter-Supply-for-LED-Strip-Light-/180853373790?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1bb37b5e

6AMP is probably enough.  My motor says 6.3A on the side, but you won't be using anywhere near the motor's full force.
Different motors were used in the Happ systems over the years, so your motor may be different.
Most of the motors have a higher voltage written on them,  anywhere from 37-90V,
but they were originally ran in the arcade machine at 24V and that's what we're using.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 09:51:45 am by BadMouth »

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2012, 04:28:44 pm »
So wiring the sega shifter? It only has 3 switches? How do I make this work? There is also a lot of slop when moving he shifter up and down while in neutral. Anyway to tighten thigs up?
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2012, 05:00:31 pm »
So wiring the sega shifter? It only has 3 switches? How do I make this work? There is also a lot of slop when moving he shifter up and down while in neutral. Anyway to tighten thigs up?

Here's how to make do with 3 switches, but you'll have to install a toggle switch somewhere to disconnect them because it will always register a gear press and that will mess you up when mapping your controls:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=106709.0

I added a 4th switch to the front, but don't go by my wiring of this because I have it hacked to a Logitech MOMO, which works kinda weird.

You'll have to use your logic-fu to figure out the wiring for your setup if you go this route, but it is possible.  :P
Model 2 and Supermodel emulators can be made to recognize neutral when no gear switches are pressed, so I'd add the 4th switch for the sake of having it behave the same as the original arcade game.

Not sure what to tell you about the slop while in neutral.  That's kinda just how it is.
You could try to modify it to make the wheels that the shifter rides against closer together, but then it might be loose while in gear.

To make it harder to shift into gear and stay in gear, there are rubber pads behind a bump-out on the side opposite the switch.
Those wear out over time.  Not sure where to get replacements, but you can wedge something behind them to make them tighter.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 10:15:25 am by BadMouth »

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2012, 10:00:35 pm »
I got it wired up. It shows all the shifts when i go threw the gears. When it is in neutral, it shows that button 6 is being pushed.  So where do I hook up the toggle switch at?
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2012, 09:22:34 am »
I got it wired up. It shows all the shifts when i go threw the gears. When it is in neutral, it shows that button 6 is being pushed.  So where do I hook up the toggle switch at?

In line with the ground wire going to the shifter, so when switched off, nothing will be grounded and no buttons will register.
It doesn't have to be a toggle.  You could use a button and go through the NC connector, so it disconnects when you hold the button.
Flip it off when you are mapping other buttons and flip it on when you are done.

You might want to make button 6 first gear when you map everything.
That way, it's at least in first instead of some other gear when it's not physically in gear.

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2012, 08:33:02 pm »
So I went to my local dealer and got a happ 4 speed. Switches were bad but went to the shack and got new ones. So I have it hooked up for the most part. The the wires are hooked up between the amp and the donor wheel. Until I get my other ps, I have a 12v dc ps to try to see how it works. I try to adjust the pots and the well goes left and stays there as I turn things up. I used the logitech software and tried the action buttons. It works but it seems weak, which Im guessing is because the ps. It still goes to the left, and sometimes to the right. What do you guys have your pots set at??
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2012, 09:05:23 pm »
So I went to my local dealer and got a happ 4 speed. Switches were bad but went to the shack and got new ones. So I have it hooked up for the most part. The the wires are hooked up between the amp and the donor wheel. Until I get my other ps, I have a 12v dc ps to try to see how it works. I try to adjust the pots and the well goes left and stays there as I turn things up. I used the logitech software and tried the action buttons. It works but it seems weak, which Im guessing is because the ps. It still goes to the left, and sometimes to the right. What do you guys have your pots set at??

Most of us are using 12v power supplies in place of the logitech one.

The wheel is probably going to the side because the input wires from the logitech board are backwards.  (it's centering feedback working in reverse)
What the pots on the amp do are covered in the servo amp part of my momo hacking thread linked above.
You should really read through all the threads we linked above.  This isn't plug and play stuff.
You're in for plenty more problems that will require tweaking to fix.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 09:09:31 pm by BadMouth »

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2012, 09:09:52 pm »
So your talking about the wires that go to the ref - and + ? I have been reading stuff on here and on 2 other forums.
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2012, 10:26:55 pm »
So your talking about the wires that go to the ref - and + ? I have been reading stuff on here and on 2 other forums.

Yes.  For some reason they need to be hooked up backwards to what seems correct.
When most people do this hack, the wheel pulls to one side when they first hook it up.
It's centering feedback trying to work, but the wheel is moving in the wrong direction.
refers ref - and + and see if it centers instead of "uncenters".

Also one of the pots on the servo amp adjusts the bias side to side.  That can also make it pull to the side.
Don't remember which one it is, but it's covered in servo amp part of the momo hacking thread that I linked to above.

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2012, 10:28:18 pm »
Yeah, I reread your post and its the test pot.
         

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2012, 12:37:29 pm »
So I got my ps yesterday. It has a adj screw -v one for ground and N L. I know ground and L is your hot wire. But the neutral? Can I just cut off a plug of say a old dvd player or something and just use 2 wires or do I need 3. For the 12v ps for the wheel, do I just find a 12v ps and switch the ends from the wheel ps? here is the ps I got http://www.ebay.com/itm/Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-DC-24V-360W-15A-for-LED-strip-CCTV-/120861369269?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c23e623b5
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2012, 06:14:43 pm »
So I got my ps yesterday. It has a adj screw -v one for ground and N L. I know ground and L is your hot wire. But the neutral? Can I just cut off a plug of say a old dvd player or something and just use 2 wires or do I need 3. For the 12v ps for the wheel, do I just find a 12v ps and switch the ends from the wheel ps? here is the ps I got http://www.ebay.com/itm/Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-DC-24V-360W-15A-for-LED-strip-CCTV-/120861369269?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c23e623b5

Did you get this hooked up yet?
I just used a replacement three prong power cord from a home improvement store.
Green to Ground, Black to L, White to N

For the 12v to the logitech wheel, I just happened to have a wall wart laying around that fit.

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2012, 03:39:04 pm »
Yea I have it all hooked up. I have the donor wheel hack and the ps hooked to the amc. I even have a 12v ps for the donor but no joy. I reversed the wires like you said earlier but it still locks left or right. I tried adjusting the pot for bias still noting. One min I think I have it the next I dont.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 03:41:13 pm by Brian74 »
         

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2012, 03:53:26 pm »
here are some more pics
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2012, 04:43:36 pm »
I reversed the wires like you said earlier but it still locks left or right. I tried adjusting the pot for bias still noting. One min I think I have it the next I dont.

It should be one of those two things (or both).

Is the potentiometer you're using in the arcade wheel the same value as the original logitech one?

Does the onscreen wheel movement in windows calibration (under game devices) correspond correctly to turning of the wheel?

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2012, 05:05:19 pm »
Couple things to check.

1) Does the wheel actually work in windows? If not you may have problems with the potentiometer not registering correctly. You may even have bad calibration
2) Double check to wiring make sure the motor outputs from the logitech wheel are going to pins 4,5 on the amc
3) Make sure you have the dip switches set correctly on the amc
3) Break out the multimeter and check the voltages. Unplug it from the pc and then plug it back in, don't open any programs and measure where the voltages are coming to the  amc and leaving the amc. This will also show you if you need to adjust the offset


Out of curiosity how did you fit the sega gear onto your happ motor?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 05:08:34 pm by brad808 »

Brian74

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2012, 08:51:41 pm »
It should be one of those two things (or both).

Is the potentiometer you're using in the arcade wheel the same value as the original logitech one?

Does the onscreen wheel movement in windows calibration (under game devices) correspond correctly to turning of the wheel?


The one in the donor was a 10k pot. I tried using one but it did not register in the game controller calibration. I know if brad's post he used a 100k pot so I tried that and it worked.

1) Does the wheel actually work in windows? If not you may have problems with the potentiometer not registering correctly. You may even have bad calibration
After I changed to the 100k pot it works fine. I am using the same donor wheel you did.
2) Double check to wiring make sure the motor outputs from the logitech wheel are going to pins 4,5 on the amc
They are going to 4 and 5.
3) Make sure you have the dip switches set correctly on the amc
1,3,5 on rest are off
3) Break out the multimeter and check the voltages. Unplug it from the pc and then plug it back in, don't open any programs and measure where the voltages are coming to the  amc and leaving the amc. This will also show you if you need to adjust the offset
Ok I will give that a try
Out of curiosity how did you fit the sega gear onto your happ motor?
I took it to  metal shop and had them put a bushing in it. Cost me 45.00
         

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Re: Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2012, 10:32:41 pm »
You shouldn't have to change the value of the original donors pot. Are you sure it wasn't 100k already? It will say 10 and then to the right of it you'll see a number 4 indicating 4 zeros after 10 (100 000 ohms or 100kohm.

The rest sounds right. So next step check the voltages that will tell you a lot and start adjusting the 12 turn pots on the amc

Sent from my Desire HD

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Re: Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2012, 01:42:25 am »
You shouldn't have to change the value of the original donors pot. Are you sure it wasn't 100k already? It will say 10 and then to the right of it you'll see a number 4 indicating 4 zeros after 10 (100 000 ohms or 100kohm.

The rest sounds right. So next step check the voltages that will tell you a lot and start adjusting the 12 turn pots on the amc


So I can use the pots from my donor wheel (which I don't have yet, it's on order) for both the wheel and pedals?  No need to order new pots?

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2012, 02:56:11 am »
The donor pots are to small to use. You have to replace them with bigger pots of the same value.

You shouldn't have to change the value of the original donors pot. Are you sure it wasn't 100k already? It will say 10 and then to the right of it you'll see a number 4 indicating 4 zeros after 10 (100 000 ohms or 100kohm.

Your right Brad it was a 100k pot.
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2012, 09:20:11 pm »
I have spent a couple hrs a day for the last few days trying to get this to work, but still nothing. I have tried adjusting the pots on the amc when I am in the config screen for the donor wheel. Also when playing a game on the pc,ps3 and the ps2. I can not get it to overload like sharkfactor said to do no matter what I try. Im kinda at a lost for words.  :banghead: I have just over 12. something volts going into the donor wheel. The amc is getting 24v. I try to do the testes inside the config ap, you know blown tire wooden bridge and such. for the most part it works and the ffb feels good but not over strong. After I push the buttons to many times, the happ will barely move the wheel. So idk know I am doing wrong. How did you guys get the amc to overload? What are your pots set at? I know brad said dips 1,3,5 on rest are off. I thought badmouth said all his were either on or off.
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2012, 09:42:32 pm »
I have spent a couple hrs a day for the last few days trying to get this to work, but still nothing. I have tried adjusting the pots on the amc when I am in the config screen for the donor wheel. Also when playing a game on the pc,ps3 and the ps2. I can not get it to overload like sharkfactor said to do no matter what I try. Im kinda at a lost for words.  :banghead: I have just over 12. something volts going into the donor wheel. The amc is getting 24v. I try to do the testes inside the config ap, you know blown tire wooden bridge and such. for the most part it works and the ffb feels good but not over strong. After I push the buttons to many times, the happ will barely move the wheel. So idk know I am doing wrong. How did you guys get the amc to overload? What are your pots set at? I know brad said dips 1,3,5 on rest are off. I thought badmouth said all his were either on or off.

The reason we are using 12v power supplies is so that the amc wont overload! In other words when the donor wheel is sending the max ffb strength its at 12v and the amc can handle 15v. Sounds to me that you have a wiring problem with the buttons if they are causing something to happen with the force feedback. For the time being try to disconnect as many buttons as possible. If I remember correctly you only need to really have the paddle pots hooked up. That way you can focus on getting the ffb working correctly and then worry about the buttons afterwards. Make sure when you measure the voltages on the amc and donor wheel you use the logitech software and not the windows config. Unplug the donor wheel then plug it back in and only open up logitech profiler, not the windows manager. I noticed windows manager will change the results. 

ABACABB

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2012, 09:34:28 am »
Oh please please please let this problem be something simple to work out.  I haven't gotten started too much with mine yet because I'm still waiting on my donor wheel but now I'm scared!!  I don't have a good feeling about my outcome with this project and I've got a lot of $$$ in parts already......  :hissy: 

Good luck Brian.  When you find a solution, please post!

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Re: Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2012, 10:00:59 am »
For potentiometers

#1 loop gain adjustment, put this fully counter clockwise

#2 is current limit, i believe i have mine half way (6 full turns). You can set your own but that is a good start. The most draw i measured in mine was under 4 amps. This ties in with dip 5 which when turned off cuts current by 50%

#3 reference gain, this is what increases or decrease how much force your feedback is getting. If yours is low turn this up. This is a direct ratio between input and output. Reference in from the Logitech to reference out happ motor. You won't have a problem of it being too weak. With the equipment you have you won't be running it at it's full potential because it will most likely be way too strong.

#4 offset. Put the dc volt meter on motor output of amc if it shows 0 your good if it shows anything else (+.4, -.7, anything then adjust this to read zero. That way you don't have more force in one direction or the other. This is good because your potentiometer probably won't be put on 100% at zero where it should be

Sent from my Desire HD

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2012, 10:01:56 am »
After I push the buttons to many times, the happ will barely move the wheel. So idk know I am doing wrong. How did you guys get the amc to overload? What are your pots set at? I know brad said dips 1,3,5 on rest are off. I thought badmouth said all his were either on or off.

I'd go with Brad's settings being that he has his cab set up and is using it.  I've only experimented with this setup to work out the kinks.  
I'm still just using a PC wheel in my cab.

The ffb working, then going away after being used many times is odd and I never experienced anything like that.
Maybe something is getting hot and some type of protection is kicking in.
Does it start working again if left alone for a while?

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2012, 01:51:06 pm »
So I have some good news and bad news to report. The good news is that I got the feed back to work full time now. The problem was that the  soldering on one of the pin for the power plug was cracked. So I took the soldering gun heated up the solder and it was fixed. The feed back feels good, but I have encountered the wobble that other ppl have talked about. So now the bad  :angry: I was moving the cable that the buttons plugs into after I had the wheel mounted into the cab.  When I was moving it, the ground wire touched the hot wire on the amc and not only fried my wheel. But also my wireless kb and my 1tb hdd that had hyperspin and all my roms on  :banghead: Im lucky I have that hdd backed up on my 2 tb. So as I sat there being  :badmood: trying to refrain from pulling a homer and smurfing the hell out of my cab. I managed to find another wheel. So as I wait, I will finish cleaning my cab, paint and decide what I will do for side are and marquee. How would you guys suggest I repair the plastic sides that cover the wood and the seat. There are some cracks and holes that need repair. Also any color suggestions would be great. Thats to everyone that has help me get this far. Without your assistance, I would still be  :dizzy: 
         

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2012, 08:32:58 pm »
So I have some good news and bad news to report. The good news is that I got the feed back to work full time now. The problem was that the  soldering on one of the pin for the power plug was cracked. So I took the soldering gun heated up the solder and it was fixed. The feed back feels good, but I have encountered the wobble that other ppl have talked about. So now the bad  :angry: I was moving the cable that the buttons plugs into after I had the wheel mounted into the cab.  When I was moving it, the ground wire touched the hot wire on the amc and not only fried my wheel. But also my wireless kb and my 1tb hdd that had hyperspin and all my roms on  :banghead: Im lucky I have that hdd backed up on my 2 tb. So as I sat there being  :badmood: trying to refrain from pulling a homer and smurfing the hell out of my cab. I managed to find another wheel. So as I wait, I will finish cleaning my cab, paint and decide what I will do for side are and marquee. How would you guys suggest I repair the plastic sides that cover the wood and the seat. There are some cracks and holes that need repair. Also any color suggestions would be great. Thats to everyone that has help me get this far. Without your assistance, I would still be  :dizzy: 

Sorry to hear it. I fried one of my donor wheels by accident as well. As soon as it happens you try and scramble to undo it but unfortunately electricity doesnt move that slowly  :'(. Once you get your force feedback set back up again try adjusting the settings for centering force feedback. That was where I was able to remove the "wobble".

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2012, 09:21:42 pm »
Man, that sucks.  :(

I jacked up the ps2 input on my key-wiz swapping the new cp in and out.
That doesn't seem so bad now.

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2012, 09:58:14 pm »
@Brad808 where do you adjust the settings for centering force feedback? Is it on the AMC or do you do it in the Logitech software?

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Re: what servo amp for happ hack?
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2012, 07:05:51 am »
@Brad808 where do you adjust the settings for centering force feedback? Is it on the AMC or do you do it in the Logitech software?

It's in the software. There are percentage sliders for a few different force feedback parameters that you can turn up or down.