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Author Topic: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Jan 20th - E-brake Success) *Pic Warning*  (Read 16027 times)

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brad808

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Hey guys just wanted to show some progress of my latest project. Basically it's an Emergency Call Ambulance cabinet that I'm in the process of converting to a ps2/mame/m2/m3 driver. I have all the parts and have already started the conversion process just need enough time to finish it. It will be very similar to thesharkfactor's cabinet with some changes and customizations of my own.

Here is the pic of the cabinet when I first got it from the previous owner


The ripping apart messy stage working in my garage :-\







Changing the potentiometers to match my donor wheel


The original force feedback system


The cleanup stage






Logitech driving force donor wheel compatible with ps2/ps3/pc


Bought a happ force feeback system but only plan on using the motor from it and remounting it on the sega system which seems very well built. The happ system seems flimsy in comparison. Unfortunately the motors arent even close so I will be building a motor mount and have a new shaft getting made at a machine shop to fit the sega gear




Force feedback power supply and servo amp


Starting to put it back together in my house


Final cleaning touches



Bit of a test run




In it's final resting place




So as of right now I have the ps2 hooked up using lm1881 circuit. The force feedback isnt hooked up yet because I'm still having the parts for the motor machined, hopefully next week I'll be able to set that all up. Haven't gotten around to setting a computer up inside out of laziness but I'll also be doing that next week because next week is my birthday weekend so we'll be having a party.



Edit: Here is a link to the album where I'm storing all the pics plus more. As I keep working on it there will be many more pics added because there is still a ton to do. I'll try and keep this thread updated as I go along and add the pics in the thread at the same time

https://picasaweb.google.com/103147969032147791403/EmergencyCallAmbulance?authuser=0&feat=directlink
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 08:00:14 pm by brad808 »

Pinball Wizard

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 11:18:46 am »
Pictures are broken.
Where's my gold star :P

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2011, 11:25:20 am »
They should be showing up now. I added the link to the album with a few more pics in it if anyone is interested. Still lots of work to be done so probably a lot more pics to come.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 11:41:19 am by brad808 »

Pinball Wizard

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2011, 11:50:32 am »
Looks like a nice project you got going there!
Where's my gold star :P

Malenko

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2011, 04:38:32 am »
Do you have a link to you MAME/MK cab?


great job on the driving cab, Im uber jealous. I only wish there was an easy way to play pole position with a 270 wheel.
If you are helping someone and expecting something in return, you are doing business not kindness.

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2011, 10:33:30 am »
Thanks guys. So far the driving cab has been going OK but the hardest parts are still to come (connect pc, setup hyperspin, finish hacking logitech wheel, setting up force feedback properly, plus I'm sure a lot more).

I haven't gotten around to making a thread for my mk2 mame machine but here is a link to an album with some pics so you can get a general idea what I did with it. It was my first arcade machine so I basically did everything twice on it. Only thing I really need to do on it to be "finished" is change the marque and quick coat of black paint (as you can see by my non existant cpo I prefer the all black simplistic look). I will probably at some point make a thread about it with details.
https://picasaweb.google.com/103147969032147791403/MameArcade?authuser=0&feat=directlink

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 06:47:46 am »
OK new update, spent a lot of time with it last night after I got the motor back from the machine shop. They put a sleeve inside the gear and stuck it in a lathe to turn it down. This allowed the sega gear to fit on the happ motor and allows me to use the original sega wheel and mounting. Took some messing around and cutting/ drilling etc  to get the motor mounted right but here it is..

gear with sleeve installed


happ motor beside original sega motor


my vision of how I would mount it (gear wasn't low enough when properly mounted)


how I actually ended up mounting it




Me ripping apart the logitech





My temporary/ possibly permanent if I cant find a better solution mounting


So by the end of last night I was able to have the ffb running but I haven't permanently wired anything in place yet and I'm yet to fully adjust the force feedback settings (if the car was sitting still and I moved the wheel to the left/right it would slowly grab the wheel and pull it to lock in that direction). So hopefully tonight I can get that adjusted. Next step will be hooking up the start and view buttons and wire the 2 way shifter up correctly with resistors. Ohh and I still need to format a computer and get it running a few games by Saturday.

Now somehow I need all this done and family is coming over tonight so it's either going to be a late night with no drinking or and early morning.



BadMouth

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Coming along well.  :cheers:

Mine pulled to one side or the other when first hooked up.
It turned out to be centering feedback working in reverse.  ;D
I had to reverse the inputs on the servo amp (to what appears backwards to me).

The TEST/OFFSET POT adjusts the bias and can make it drift to one side, but not both.

I haven't done this yet, but here's my plan for adjusting it:

1. Enable centering feedback under game controllers in the windows control panel
2. Use a fish scale (the kind with the big hook) to measure how much force it takes to pull the wheel in each direction
3. Adjust TEST/OFFSET POT until it takes an equal amount of force for each direction.

For REF/GAIN IN, I just plan to set it to the maximum I would want and use logitech profiler and emulator settings to tone it down.

brad808

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Coming along well.  :cheers:

Mine pulled to one side or the other when first hooked up.
It turned out to be centering feedback working in reverse.  ;D
I had to reverse the inputs on the servo amp (to what appears backwards to me).

The TEST/OFFSET POT adjusts the bias and can make it drift to one side, but not both.

I haven't done this yet, but here's my plan for adjusting it:

1. Enable centering feedback under game controllers in the windows control panel
2. Use a fish scale (the kind with the big hook) to measure how much force it takes to pull the wheel in each direction
3. Adjust TEST/OFFSET POT until it takes an equal amount of force for each direction.

For REF/GAIN IN, I just plan to set it to the maximum I would want and use logitech profiler and emulator settings to tone it down.

Thanks that's a huge help and will save me a good chunk of trouble shooting. I haven't gone through all the setup procedure yet on the amc but I couldn't work out in my head what parameter would make it do that but reverse centering makes perfect sense.

So if I understand you correctly the test/offset just determines how much force is being applied in one direction vs the other?

brad808

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One other question does logitech profiler rewrite firmware? If not how will I maintain any settings on my ps2?

BadMouth

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So if I understand you correctly the test/offset just determines how much force is being applied in one direction vs the other?

That's it from what I can tell.  I'm still figuring out how to use the thing too! (and the language in the manual is over my head).
I had a problem with the wheel slowly drifting to one side and adjusting the test/offset corrected it.
If I turned the adjustment too far, it would drift in the other direction.
The FFB also felt weaker in one direction than the other before making that adjustment.

There is a DIP switch that flips it between acting like a bias between directions or a test signal.
I have all the DIP switches in the same position, but can't remember whether that was up or down.
I'll look when I get home.

As for Logitech Profiler, it's all done through software on the PC and doesn't affect the firmware on the wheel.
So I guess you might want to adjust the gain on the amp based on the playstation.

EDIT: BTW, what value potentiometers did you use for the Driving Force wheel and pedals?
         I've been wanting to put together a list to help out people with their wheel hacks.  
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 10:46:01 am by BadMouth »

brad808

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Quote
As for Logitech Profiler, it's all done through software on the PC and doesn't affect the firmware on the wheel.
So I guess you might want to adjust the gain on the amp based on the playstation.

EDIT: BTW, what value potentiometers did you use for the Driving Force wheel and pedals?
         I've been wanting to put together a list to help out people with their wheel hacks. 


That's what I'm thinking as well the ps2 must have some sort of calibration built in when using the wheel because in logitech profiler before I calibrate both the brake and gas are off slightly from the original (fine after calibration). On the ps2 they work perfectly fine without changing anything.

For potentiometers I used 100k ohm linear for the steering wheel and 50k ohm linear for both pedals.

brad808

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Coming along well.  :cheers:

The TEST/OFFSET POT adjusts the bias and can make it drift to one side, but not both.

I haven't done this yet, but here's my plan for adjusting it:

1. Enable centering feedback under game controllers in the windows control panel
2. Use a fish scale (the kind with the big hook) to measure how much force it takes to pull the wheel in each direction
3. Adjust TEST/OFFSET POT until it takes an equal amount of force for each direction.


I've been thinking about this since I read it and would it not be possible to do the same type test with a volt meter hooked up to the motor outputs from the amc and read the voltage either positive or negative from each side instead of the scale idea? I would think that would give a very accurate representation on how much force the motor is being sent? Maybe I'll test it when I get home.

adidas1984x

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 14th 2011 - Update) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2011, 02:48:40 pm »
Because this cabinet project it so awesome you should put some vids up... just saying Would love to see it in action

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 14th 2011 - Update) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2011, 03:31:36 pm »
I'll try and get some videos up early next week, bit hungover today from birthday. I had it up and running all night and everyone loved it so the night was a success. It took me from about 6am to 2pm messing around with setting up the computer and rewiring things etc to get it to a playable state that I was happy with. We all spent a good amount of time playing scud race before and after the bar on it and the force feedback is amazing on it. I'm really happy with how it's turning out so far.

I do still need to make some adjustments on the amc for the force feedback I believe because if I'm at say a title screen of scud race for instance (not in a race just in attract mode) and I pull the wheel to the right/ left and let go it seems to correct itself too far past centre and continuously jumps back and forth. If I grab the wheel and stop it then it's fine. I'll take a video and show exactly what I mean. Not a problem in game but I would like to adjust that out. Putting my voltmeter on the ref in +/- on the amc shows that there is a small voltage coming from the logitech board while not in game and I'm curious if that is causing the problem. I should really read through the manual for the amc and really understand all the dip switch settings and adjustment pots.

Now that I have all the parts I need this week will be a lot of fine tuning and permanently mounting things that are just sort of thrown it quickly.



These are the cupcakes my gf made for me ;)

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 14th 2011 - Update) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2011, 09:55:04 pm »
Because this cabinet project it so awesome you should put some vids up... just saying Would love to see it in action



Here's a video of the force feedback effects in Logitech Profiler:
[youtube][/youtube]

Here's a brief walkthrough of the cabinet:
[youtube][/youtube]


Sorry if the video looks or sounds weird I took it on my phone

BadMouth

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I'm digging the walk-through videos lately.  You get so much more out of it than a wall of text & a few pics.

My wheel did the bouncing back and forth thing too, but I can't remember what I did to correct it.  ???
I think I reduced the dead zone to almost nothing.  I'm not sure because I made a lot of changes at once.
I'm pretty sure it was either that or flipping all the dip switches off.

charlieram

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I had that back and forth thingy too but on an unmodified FFB pro, to get rid of it I had to reduce 'overall effects strength' to below %110, it was originally at %150 when I had the problem. Hope this helps

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So all you used was a happ motor?
nice build BTW


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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I'm digging the walk-through videos lately.  You get so much more out of it than a wall of text & a few pics.

My wheel did the bouncing back and forth thing too, but I can't remember what I did to correct it.  ???
I think I reduced the dead zone to almost nothing.  I'm not sure because I made a lot of changes at once.
I'm pretty sure it was either that or flipping all the dip switches off.


Where did you find a "dead zone" I don't see that in logitech profiler anywhere is it emulator specific?

I had that back and forth thingy too but on an unmodified FFB pro, to get rid of it I had to reduce 'overall effects strength' to below %110, it was originally at %150 when I had the problem. Hope this helps

All mine were set at 100% by default. The only way I was able to get it to stop was to turn the spring effect and centering effect both down to 10% but that left almost no resistance while normal driving... but huge ffb during crashes etc.

The other thing I noticed is the small voltage coming from the logitech ffb outputs. I believe that may be causing problems. It seems even with my wheel showing centre in windows the logitech is still trying to centre it according to it's own values. I may try taking off the potentiometer and trying to get it compeletly centre which seems almost impossible just watching how little it has to move to make a change in the value.

So all you used was a happ motor?
nice build BTW


Thanks! Yep all I did was basically mount the happ motor on the sega motor assembly and make a sleve so the sega gear could fit on the happ motor shaft. Allowed me to keep the nice sega wheel and heavy duty belt etc of the sega parts while still having the simplicity of the happ dc motor connects.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 05:13:18 pm by brad808 »

BadMouth

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Where did you find a "dead zone" I don't see that in logitech profiler anywhere is it emulator specific?

Looking at it now, I don't have that option either (I don't have profiler installed on the computer that I'm testing with).
I'm not sure what I did, but it did go away  ???


brad808

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Where did you find a "dead zone" I don't see that in logitech profiler anywhere is it emulator specific?

Looking at it now, I don't have that option either (I don't have profiler installed on the computer that I'm testing with).
I'm not sure what I did, but it did go away  ???

1) when it did go away were you able to keep resistance during normal driving or did you lose that as well?

2) what voltage power supply are you using on your donor wheel?

2.5) power supply used on amc?

3) are your settings at default in the Logitech or windows game controller setup?

4) all dip switches are off on amc?

5) how many turns clockwise do you have your reference in gain set at?

6) do you have voltage at your donor wheel ffb outputs while your wheel is centered?

I would like to if possible fix the problem outside of windows (hopefully on the donor wheel or amc) because that would allow me to use the wheel properly on my ps2 as well.

BadMouth

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Where did you find a "dead zone" I don't see that in logitech profiler anywhere is it emulator specific?

Looking at it now, I don't have that option either (I don't have profiler installed on the computer that I'm testing with).
I'm not sure what I did, but it did go away  ???

1) when it did go away were you able to keep resistance during normal driving or did you lose that as well?

2) what voltage power supply are you using on your donor wheel?

2.5) power supply used on amc?

3) are your settings at default in the Logitech or windows game controller setup?

4) all dip switches are off on amc?

5) how many turns clockwise do you have your reference in gain set at?

6) do you have voltage at your donor wheel ffb outputs while your wheel is centered?

I would like to if possible fix the problem outside of windows (hopefully on the donor wheel or amc) because that would allow me to use the wheel properly on my ps2 as well.

Sorry to be brief, but I'm running late for something.

1) Yes, but I checked to allow the game to override the settings
    I plugged it up quick and centering feedback is enabled, but  at zero strength.  Not sure if that is my setting from last time or the default.
    (I don't have power running to it and don't have time to hook it up.)
2) 12v although the original one was twenty something
3) Not sure (it's been a while since I had it hooked up).  The only settings I messed with were in windows game controller.
4) They're all in the same direction.   ;D  It seemed backwards to what I thought was off, but it didn't work the other way.
5 & 6) Not sure and I won't have time to test until Sunday or Monday  :-\

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Is there any chance you could just use the DC motor that came with the wheel?
As for the profile to set a dead zone for the wheel you need to make the profile have 3 zones for the DC example i have 46 | 8 | 46
the 46 areas trigger a command the 8 is my dead zone area.


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brad808

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Awesome thanks for the info guys. The original power supply for the logitech is 24v the one I'm using now is 12v but my volt meter shows around 16v. I'm going to check the outputs of the logitech tonight during ffb to see how high the voltage reaches because the inputs of the amc are supposed to be <15v.

Hopefully no overtime this weekend so I'm thinking I'll have a chance to mess with it some more.

@gbeef thanks for that I'll try and add a dead zone tonight and see if it helps (at least for pc based games). If your referring to the logitech motor it is just simply way too small to provide any real force other then as a toy. If your referring to why i didn't use the sega motor it's because it isn't a simple DC motor with +/- inputs it has a clutch system of some sort and a whole bunch of connectors going into it.

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can you tell me what the part number on the motor is?


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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can you tell me what the part number on the motor is?

Which motor?

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Sorry the happ one. I think i found one but i want to make sure. from looking at your pics its 2174 i think i tracked one down.

Also do you have a link for the servo or which model did you end up buying same as badmoon?

how did you go about getting a gear made or was it a shaft?
and what was the cost if you don't mind me asking? Im looking to upgrade my wheel to arcade also.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 03:34:50 pm by gbeef »


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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Sorry the happ one. I think i found one but i want to make sure. from looking at your pics its 2174 i think i tracked one down.

Also do you have a link for the servo or which model did you end up buying same as badmoon?

how did you go about getting a gear made or was it a shaft?
and what was the cost if you don't mind me asking? Im looking to upgrade my wheel to arcade also.



Yep that's the motor you need. If you already have the sega steering assembly like I did then you only need the motor. You could potentially do this with the happ steering assembly but I chose not to because I would have to change steering wheels and to be honest the happ gears/ belts/ build quality seemed inferior to the sega parts I already had and already perfectly fitted.

This is the servo I used... cheapest I could find and I looked around quiet a bit.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/170692654137?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D170692654137%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1#ht_500wt_1361


Just to make sure you know the gear I had fitted was the sega gear that came with my driving cab. I could have potentially used the whole happ assembly and not made anything different other then trying to fit the whole happ assembly at the back of my dash.

I basically put a bushing inside the gear to make the inside diameter smaller so it would fit on the happ motor shaft. Then had to have it pressed into the gear and set screw holes tapped into the bushing so the gear would hold onto the shaft nice. That cost me $56 (way too much considering I did almost all of it myself).  The machine shop basically just pressed it and tapped it. Which I really should have and would do my self if I ever did it again.

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yeah i found the just the motor.
So i'm kind hooped when it comes to the assembly.

Sorry what do you mean by pressed and tapped?
did you also extend the shaft on the happs motor?
and instead of a bushing could you use a shim? like a piece of pipe? or metal.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 05:05:59 pm by gbeef »


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

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yeah i found the just the motor.
So i'm kind hooped when it comes to the assembly.

Sorry what do you mean by pressed and tapped?
did you also extend the shaft on the happs motor?
and instead of a bushing could you use a shim? like a piece of pipe? or metal.



By pressed I mean the two were so closely fitting that you couldn't put them together by hand you need a hydrolic press. By tapped I mean that once the holes were drilled they needed to be "tapped" to create the threads inside that the little set screws go into. Happ motor was not extended at all. That is the reason I had to take the sega motor mount (the gold looking thing) and attach it under the bracket to increase the length so the gears would line up. To answer your last question yes, that is essentially what a bushing is just a fitted piece of pipe or metal.

gbeef

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Ok thanks for your help.
Im going to see what i can do.
I think tapping it will be the interesting part.


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brad808

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Spent most of tonight messing around trying to get it right (without much success). Eventually decided to swap the power supply for a nice solid 12V, accidently had the wires crossed didnt check before I plugged it in and fried my donor wheel. The board itself still works and all buttons but ffb seems to be fried coming out of it so the board is pretty much useless at this point.

BadMouth

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Don't toss it yet.  I'm sure they built in some type of component that would fry if the motor draws too much current and causes a fire.
Look for a burnt component near the motor leads on the CP.  It might only need a $2 part from radio shack.

I still haven't had time to mess around with mine anymore.  Hopefully it will be in the cab within a couple weeks.

brad808

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It is a fried part i can see it.... Not from drawing too much current though. From me wiring the power supply backwards (oops). It's just going to be a real big pain to solder but i'll probably give it a shot if i can't find a cheap replacement

brad808

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Well two hours on the road and $40 later I got a new donor wheel and a bunch of games I dont want.


This is the chip that got fried on the old one. (the picture is of the new one.... the old one is blown apart)



now if I can find a chip somewhere I'll give soldering it a try but in the mean time I'll hook up the new wheel because I need the cabinet at least back to where it was for the weekend.

gbeef

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Congrats. I know I was looking for a donar also it was such a pain.   I got the ex model. Hopefully it will work.


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brad808

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I'm sure the ex model works, I think that's what thesharkfactor used.


Swapped in my new donor pcb yesterday and got it back up and running. It was easy because everything was already wired i just swapped the old connectors onto the new pcb.

I was also able to tweak my settings a bit. No more pulling left and right. I believe bad power supply I was using may have been a fairly large chunk of the problem. It said 12v but when I measured it was closer to 17-18v. Due to this I think the donor wheel was sending out 15v (the max input of the amc) around 3/4 of the way to full lock. This in turn gave inaccurate outputs from the amc to the motor. The power supply I'm using now reads around 11.6-11.8v at full lock.

I also changed some settings in logitech profiler to do with spring, can't remember what i have them set at right now. Centering is around 79%. Overall and damper settings are left at 100%. Amc is currently running dips 1,3,5 on and all others off.


One other thing I did lay night was wire up the shifters to the left and right paddle triggers on the donor using resistors in place of the potentiometers.

gbeef

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Hey just wonder what kinda of power supply did you use?
24V 6A?? how many watts?


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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Hey just wonder what kinda of power supply did you use?
24V 6A?? how many watts?

24v dc, 6.5amp (you could use 6 but shouldn't any lower then 6), 150 watt.

 http://www.ia.omron.com/product/item/s82j9126a/index.html

This is the one im using