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Author Topic: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Jan 20th - E-brake Success) *Pic Warning*  (Read 18883 times)

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brad808

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Hey guys just wanted to show some progress of my latest project. Basically it's an Emergency Call Ambulance cabinet that I'm in the process of converting to a ps2/mame/m2/m3 driver. I have all the parts and have already started the conversion process just need enough time to finish it. It will be very similar to thesharkfactor's cabinet with some changes and customizations of my own.

Here is the pic of the cabinet when I first got it from the previous owner


The ripping apart messy stage working in my garage :-\







Changing the potentiometers to match my donor wheel


The original force feedback system


The cleanup stage






Logitech driving force donor wheel compatible with ps2/ps3/pc


Bought a happ force feeback system but only plan on using the motor from it and remounting it on the sega system which seems very well built. The happ system seems flimsy in comparison. Unfortunately the motors arent even close so I will be building a motor mount and have a new shaft getting made at a machine shop to fit the sega gear




Force feedback power supply and servo amp


Starting to put it back together in my house


Final cleaning touches



Bit of a test run




In it's final resting place




So as of right now I have the ps2 hooked up using lm1881 circuit. The force feedback isnt hooked up yet because I'm still having the parts for the motor machined, hopefully next week I'll be able to set that all up. Haven't gotten around to setting a computer up inside out of laziness but I'll also be doing that next week because next week is my birthday weekend so we'll be having a party.



Edit: Here is a link to the album where I'm storing all the pics plus more. As I keep working on it there will be many more pics added because there is still a ton to do. I'll try and keep this thread updated as I go along and add the pics in the thread at the same time

https://picasaweb.google.com/103147969032147791403/EmergencyCallAmbulance?authuser=0&feat=directlink
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 08:00:14 pm by brad808 »

Pinball Wizard

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 11:18:46 am »
Pictures are broken.
Where's my gold star :P

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2011, 11:25:20 am »
They should be showing up now. I added the link to the album with a few more pics in it if anyone is interested. Still lots of work to be done so probably a lot more pics to come.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 11:41:19 am by brad808 »

Pinball Wizard

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2011, 11:50:32 am »
Looks like a nice project you got going there!
Where's my gold star :P

Malenko

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2011, 04:38:32 am »
Do you have a link to you MAME/MK cab?


great job on the driving cab, Im uber jealous. I only wish there was an easy way to play pole position with a 270 wheel.
If you are helping someone and expecting something in return, you are doing business not kindness.

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2011, 10:33:30 am »
Thanks guys. So far the driving cab has been going OK but the hardest parts are still to come (connect pc, setup hyperspin, finish hacking logitech wheel, setting up force feedback properly, plus I'm sure a lot more).

I haven't gotten around to making a thread for my mk2 mame machine but here is a link to an album with some pics so you can get a general idea what I did with it. It was my first arcade machine so I basically did everything twice on it. Only thing I really need to do on it to be "finished" is change the marque and quick coat of black paint (as you can see by my non existant cpo I prefer the all black simplistic look). I will probably at some point make a thread about it with details.
https://picasaweb.google.com/103147969032147791403/MameArcade?authuser=0&feat=directlink

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 9th 2011) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 06:47:46 am »
OK new update, spent a lot of time with it last night after I got the motor back from the machine shop. They put a sleeve inside the gear and stuck it in a lathe to turn it down. This allowed the sega gear to fit on the happ motor and allows me to use the original sega wheel and mounting. Took some messing around and cutting/ drilling etc  to get the motor mounted right but here it is..

gear with sleeve installed


happ motor beside original sega motor


my vision of how I would mount it (gear wasn't low enough when properly mounted)


how I actually ended up mounting it




Me ripping apart the logitech





My temporary/ possibly permanent if I cant find a better solution mounting


So by the end of last night I was able to have the ffb running but I haven't permanently wired anything in place yet and I'm yet to fully adjust the force feedback settings (if the car was sitting still and I moved the wheel to the left/right it would slowly grab the wheel and pull it to lock in that direction). So hopefully tonight I can get that adjusted. Next step will be hooking up the start and view buttons and wire the 2 way shifter up correctly with resistors. Ohh and I still need to format a computer and get it running a few games by Saturday.

Now somehow I need all this done and family is coming over tonight so it's either going to be a late night with no drinking or and early morning.



BadMouth

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Coming along well.  :cheers:

Mine pulled to one side or the other when first hooked up.
It turned out to be centering feedback working in reverse.  ;D
I had to reverse the inputs on the servo amp (to what appears backwards to me).

The TEST/OFFSET POT adjusts the bias and can make it drift to one side, but not both.

I haven't done this yet, but here's my plan for adjusting it:

1. Enable centering feedback under game controllers in the windows control panel
2. Use a fish scale (the kind with the big hook) to measure how much force it takes to pull the wheel in each direction
3. Adjust TEST/OFFSET POT until it takes an equal amount of force for each direction.

For REF/GAIN IN, I just plan to set it to the maximum I would want and use logitech profiler and emulator settings to tone it down.

brad808

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Coming along well.  :cheers:

Mine pulled to one side or the other when first hooked up.
It turned out to be centering feedback working in reverse.  ;D
I had to reverse the inputs on the servo amp (to what appears backwards to me).

The TEST/OFFSET POT adjusts the bias and can make it drift to one side, but not both.

I haven't done this yet, but here's my plan for adjusting it:

1. Enable centering feedback under game controllers in the windows control panel
2. Use a fish scale (the kind with the big hook) to measure how much force it takes to pull the wheel in each direction
3. Adjust TEST/OFFSET POT until it takes an equal amount of force for each direction.

For REF/GAIN IN, I just plan to set it to the maximum I would want and use logitech profiler and emulator settings to tone it down.

Thanks that's a huge help and will save me a good chunk of trouble shooting. I haven't gone through all the setup procedure yet on the amc but I couldn't work out in my head what parameter would make it do that but reverse centering makes perfect sense.

So if I understand you correctly the test/offset just determines how much force is being applied in one direction vs the other?

brad808

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One other question does logitech profiler rewrite firmware? If not how will I maintain any settings on my ps2?

BadMouth

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So if I understand you correctly the test/offset just determines how much force is being applied in one direction vs the other?

That's it from what I can tell.  I'm still figuring out how to use the thing too! (and the language in the manual is over my head).
I had a problem with the wheel slowly drifting to one side and adjusting the test/offset corrected it.
If I turned the adjustment too far, it would drift in the other direction.
The FFB also felt weaker in one direction than the other before making that adjustment.

There is a DIP switch that flips it between acting like a bias between directions or a test signal.
I have all the DIP switches in the same position, but can't remember whether that was up or down.
I'll look when I get home.

As for Logitech Profiler, it's all done through software on the PC and doesn't affect the firmware on the wheel.
So I guess you might want to adjust the gain on the amp based on the playstation.

EDIT: BTW, what value potentiometers did you use for the Driving Force wheel and pedals?
         I've been wanting to put together a list to help out people with their wheel hacks.  
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 10:46:01 am by BadMouth »

brad808

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Quote
As for Logitech Profiler, it's all done through software on the PC and doesn't affect the firmware on the wheel.
So I guess you might want to adjust the gain on the amp based on the playstation.

EDIT: BTW, what value potentiometers did you use for the Driving Force wheel and pedals?
         I've been wanting to put together a list to help out people with their wheel hacks. 


That's what I'm thinking as well the ps2 must have some sort of calibration built in when using the wheel because in logitech profiler before I calibrate both the brake and gas are off slightly from the original (fine after calibration). On the ps2 they work perfectly fine without changing anything.

For potentiometers I used 100k ohm linear for the steering wheel and 50k ohm linear for both pedals.

brad808

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Coming along well.  :cheers:

The TEST/OFFSET POT adjusts the bias and can make it drift to one side, but not both.

I haven't done this yet, but here's my plan for adjusting it:

1. Enable centering feedback under game controllers in the windows control panel
2. Use a fish scale (the kind with the big hook) to measure how much force it takes to pull the wheel in each direction
3. Adjust TEST/OFFSET POT until it takes an equal amount of force for each direction.


I've been thinking about this since I read it and would it not be possible to do the same type test with a volt meter hooked up to the motor outputs from the amc and read the voltage either positive or negative from each side instead of the scale idea? I would think that would give a very accurate representation on how much force the motor is being sent? Maybe I'll test it when I get home.

adidas1984x

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 14th 2011 - Update) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2011, 02:48:40 pm »
Because this cabinet project it so awesome you should put some vids up... just saying Would love to see it in action

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 14th 2011 - Update) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2011, 03:31:36 pm »
I'll try and get some videos up early next week, bit hungover today from birthday. I had it up and running all night and everyone loved it so the night was a success. It took me from about 6am to 2pm messing around with setting up the computer and rewiring things etc to get it to a playable state that I was happy with. We all spent a good amount of time playing scud race before and after the bar on it and the force feedback is amazing on it. I'm really happy with how it's turning out so far.

I do still need to make some adjustments on the amc for the force feedback I believe because if I'm at say a title screen of scud race for instance (not in a race just in attract mode) and I pull the wheel to the right/ left and let go it seems to correct itself too far past centre and continuously jumps back and forth. If I grab the wheel and stop it then it's fine. I'll take a video and show exactly what I mean. Not a problem in game but I would like to adjust that out. Putting my voltmeter on the ref in +/- on the amc shows that there is a small voltage coming from the logitech board while not in game and I'm curious if that is causing the problem. I should really read through the manual for the amc and really understand all the dip switch settings and adjustment pots.

Now that I have all the parts I need this week will be a lot of fine tuning and permanently mounting things that are just sort of thrown it quickly.



These are the cupcakes my gf made for me ;)

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Oct 14th 2011 - Update) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2011, 09:55:04 pm »
Because this cabinet project it so awesome you should put some vids up... just saying Would love to see it in action



Here's a video of the force feedback effects in Logitech Profiler:
[youtube][/youtube]

Here's a brief walkthrough of the cabinet:
[youtube][/youtube]


Sorry if the video looks or sounds weird I took it on my phone

BadMouth

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I'm digging the walk-through videos lately.  You get so much more out of it than a wall of text & a few pics.

My wheel did the bouncing back and forth thing too, but I can't remember what I did to correct it.  ???
I think I reduced the dead zone to almost nothing.  I'm not sure because I made a lot of changes at once.
I'm pretty sure it was either that or flipping all the dip switches off.

charlieram

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I had that back and forth thingy too but on an unmodified FFB pro, to get rid of it I had to reduce 'overall effects strength' to below %110, it was originally at %150 when I had the problem. Hope this helps

gbeef

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So all you used was a happ motor?
nice build BTW


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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I'm digging the walk-through videos lately.  You get so much more out of it than a wall of text & a few pics.

My wheel did the bouncing back and forth thing too, but I can't remember what I did to correct it.  ???
I think I reduced the dead zone to almost nothing.  I'm not sure because I made a lot of changes at once.
I'm pretty sure it was either that or flipping all the dip switches off.


Where did you find a "dead zone" I don't see that in logitech profiler anywhere is it emulator specific?

I had that back and forth thingy too but on an unmodified FFB pro, to get rid of it I had to reduce 'overall effects strength' to below %110, it was originally at %150 when I had the problem. Hope this helps

All mine were set at 100% by default. The only way I was able to get it to stop was to turn the spring effect and centering effect both down to 10% but that left almost no resistance while normal driving... but huge ffb during crashes etc.

The other thing I noticed is the small voltage coming from the logitech ffb outputs. I believe that may be causing problems. It seems even with my wheel showing centre in windows the logitech is still trying to centre it according to it's own values. I may try taking off the potentiometer and trying to get it compeletly centre which seems almost impossible just watching how little it has to move to make a change in the value.

So all you used was a happ motor?
nice build BTW


Thanks! Yep all I did was basically mount the happ motor on the sega motor assembly and make a sleve so the sega gear could fit on the happ motor shaft. Allowed me to keep the nice sega wheel and heavy duty belt etc of the sega parts while still having the simplicity of the happ dc motor connects.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 05:13:18 pm by brad808 »

BadMouth

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Where did you find a "dead zone" I don't see that in logitech profiler anywhere is it emulator specific?

Looking at it now, I don't have that option either (I don't have profiler installed on the computer that I'm testing with).
I'm not sure what I did, but it did go away  ???


brad808

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Where did you find a "dead zone" I don't see that in logitech profiler anywhere is it emulator specific?

Looking at it now, I don't have that option either (I don't have profiler installed on the computer that I'm testing with).
I'm not sure what I did, but it did go away  ???

1) when it did go away were you able to keep resistance during normal driving or did you lose that as well?

2) what voltage power supply are you using on your donor wheel?

2.5) power supply used on amc?

3) are your settings at default in the Logitech or windows game controller setup?

4) all dip switches are off on amc?

5) how many turns clockwise do you have your reference in gain set at?

6) do you have voltage at your donor wheel ffb outputs while your wheel is centered?

I would like to if possible fix the problem outside of windows (hopefully on the donor wheel or amc) because that would allow me to use the wheel properly on my ps2 as well.

BadMouth

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Where did you find a "dead zone" I don't see that in logitech profiler anywhere is it emulator specific?

Looking at it now, I don't have that option either (I don't have profiler installed on the computer that I'm testing with).
I'm not sure what I did, but it did go away  ???

1) when it did go away were you able to keep resistance during normal driving or did you lose that as well?

2) what voltage power supply are you using on your donor wheel?

2.5) power supply used on amc?

3) are your settings at default in the Logitech or windows game controller setup?

4) all dip switches are off on amc?

5) how many turns clockwise do you have your reference in gain set at?

6) do you have voltage at your donor wheel ffb outputs while your wheel is centered?

I would like to if possible fix the problem outside of windows (hopefully on the donor wheel or amc) because that would allow me to use the wheel properly on my ps2 as well.

Sorry to be brief, but I'm running late for something.

1) Yes, but I checked to allow the game to override the settings
    I plugged it up quick and centering feedback is enabled, but  at zero strength.  Not sure if that is my setting from last time or the default.
    (I don't have power running to it and don't have time to hook it up.)
2) 12v although the original one was twenty something
3) Not sure (it's been a while since I had it hooked up).  The only settings I messed with were in windows game controller.
4) They're all in the same direction.   ;D  It seemed backwards to what I thought was off, but it didn't work the other way.
5 & 6) Not sure and I won't have time to test until Sunday or Monday  :-\

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Is there any chance you could just use the DC motor that came with the wheel?
As for the profile to set a dead zone for the wheel you need to make the profile have 3 zones for the DC example i have 46 | 8 | 46
the 46 areas trigger a command the 8 is my dead zone area.


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brad808

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Awesome thanks for the info guys. The original power supply for the logitech is 24v the one I'm using now is 12v but my volt meter shows around 16v. I'm going to check the outputs of the logitech tonight during ffb to see how high the voltage reaches because the inputs of the amc are supposed to be <15v.

Hopefully no overtime this weekend so I'm thinking I'll have a chance to mess with it some more.

@gbeef thanks for that I'll try and add a dead zone tonight and see if it helps (at least for pc based games). If your referring to the logitech motor it is just simply way too small to provide any real force other then as a toy. If your referring to why i didn't use the sega motor it's because it isn't a simple DC motor with +/- inputs it has a clutch system of some sort and a whole bunch of connectors going into it.

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can you tell me what the part number on the motor is?


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
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My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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can you tell me what the part number on the motor is?

Which motor?

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Sorry the happ one. I think i found one but i want to make sure. from looking at your pics its 2174 i think i tracked one down.

Also do you have a link for the servo or which model did you end up buying same as badmoon?

how did you go about getting a gear made or was it a shaft?
and what was the cost if you don't mind me asking? Im looking to upgrade my wheel to arcade also.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 03:34:50 pm by gbeef »


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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Sorry the happ one. I think i found one but i want to make sure. from looking at your pics its 2174 i think i tracked one down.

Also do you have a link for the servo or which model did you end up buying same as badmoon?

how did you go about getting a gear made or was it a shaft?
and what was the cost if you don't mind me asking? Im looking to upgrade my wheel to arcade also.



Yep that's the motor you need. If you already have the sega steering assembly like I did then you only need the motor. You could potentially do this with the happ steering assembly but I chose not to because I would have to change steering wheels and to be honest the happ gears/ belts/ build quality seemed inferior to the sega parts I already had and already perfectly fitted.

This is the servo I used... cheapest I could find and I looked around quiet a bit.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/170692654137?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D170692654137%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1#ht_500wt_1361


Just to make sure you know the gear I had fitted was the sega gear that came with my driving cab. I could have potentially used the whole happ assembly and not made anything different other then trying to fit the whole happ assembly at the back of my dash.

I basically put a bushing inside the gear to make the inside diameter smaller so it would fit on the happ motor shaft. Then had to have it pressed into the gear and set screw holes tapped into the bushing so the gear would hold onto the shaft nice. That cost me $56 (way too much considering I did almost all of it myself).  The machine shop basically just pressed it and tapped it. Which I really should have and would do my self if I ever did it again.

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yeah i found the just the motor.
So i'm kind hooped when it comes to the assembly.

Sorry what do you mean by pressed and tapped?
did you also extend the shaft on the happs motor?
and instead of a bushing could you use a shim? like a piece of pipe? or metal.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 05:05:59 pm by gbeef »


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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yeah i found the just the motor.
So i'm kind hooped when it comes to the assembly.

Sorry what do you mean by pressed and tapped?
did you also extend the shaft on the happs motor?
and instead of a bushing could you use a shim? like a piece of pipe? or metal.



By pressed I mean the two were so closely fitting that you couldn't put them together by hand you need a hydrolic press. By tapped I mean that once the holes were drilled they needed to be "tapped" to create the threads inside that the little set screws go into. Happ motor was not extended at all. That is the reason I had to take the sega motor mount (the gold looking thing) and attach it under the bracket to increase the length so the gears would line up. To answer your last question yes, that is essentially what a bushing is just a fitted piece of pipe or metal.

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Ok thanks for your help.
Im going to see what i can do.
I think tapping it will be the interesting part.


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Spent most of tonight messing around trying to get it right (without much success). Eventually decided to swap the power supply for a nice solid 12V, accidently had the wires crossed didnt check before I plugged it in and fried my donor wheel. The board itself still works and all buttons but ffb seems to be fried coming out of it so the board is pretty much useless at this point.

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Don't toss it yet.  I'm sure they built in some type of component that would fry if the motor draws too much current and causes a fire.
Look for a burnt component near the motor leads on the CP.  It might only need a $2 part from radio shack.

I still haven't had time to mess around with mine anymore.  Hopefully it will be in the cab within a couple weeks.

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It is a fried part i can see it.... Not from drawing too much current though. From me wiring the power supply backwards (oops). It's just going to be a real big pain to solder but i'll probably give it a shot if i can't find a cheap replacement

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Well two hours on the road and $40 later I got a new donor wheel and a bunch of games I dont want.


This is the chip that got fried on the old one. (the picture is of the new one.... the old one is blown apart)



now if I can find a chip somewhere I'll give soldering it a try but in the mean time I'll hook up the new wheel because I need the cabinet at least back to where it was for the weekend.

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Congrats. I know I was looking for a donar also it was such a pain.   I got the ex model. Hopefully it will work.


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I'm sure the ex model works, I think that's what thesharkfactor used.


Swapped in my new donor pcb yesterday and got it back up and running. It was easy because everything was already wired i just swapped the old connectors onto the new pcb.

I was also able to tweak my settings a bit. No more pulling left and right. I believe bad power supply I was using may have been a fairly large chunk of the problem. It said 12v but when I measured it was closer to 17-18v. Due to this I think the donor wheel was sending out 15v (the max input of the amc) around 3/4 of the way to full lock. This in turn gave inaccurate outputs from the amc to the motor. The power supply I'm using now reads around 11.6-11.8v at full lock.

I also changed some settings in logitech profiler to do with spring, can't remember what i have them set at right now. Centering is around 79%. Overall and damper settings are left at 100%. Amc is currently running dips 1,3,5 on and all others off.


One other thing I did lay night was wire up the shifters to the left and right paddle triggers on the donor using resistors in place of the potentiometers.

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Hey just wonder what kinda of power supply did you use?
24V 6A?? how many watts?


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Hey just wonder what kinda of power supply did you use?
24V 6A?? how many watts?

24v dc, 6.5amp (you could use 6 but shouldn't any lower then 6), 150 watt.

 http://www.ia.omron.com/product/item/s82j9126a/index.html

This is the one im using

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any more progress ?

Its your fault Ive sunk like $300 into a pole position cabinet to make it a "real" racing cab. Well, its gbeef's fault too  :lol
If you are helping someone and expecting something in return, you are doing business not kindness.

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any more progress ?

Its your fault Ive sunk like $300 into a pole position cabinet to make it a "real" racing cab. Well, its gbeef's fault too  :lol

;) I'm glad there is getting to be more driving cabs that way we all get a bit more information floating around.

Progress is still happening but last week kind of sucked I had a leak in my bathroom so this week I've been drywalling and painting, pluming etc. not a whole lot if time for the driving cab.

I ordered buttons for my view panel that I'm still waiting to come in. I ended up going with square ones even though i really wanted rectangular. Guess I'll have to wait and see when they come in.

I still need to properly wire up the controls to the donor pad. Right now they are kind of half assed soldered onto the pad where the button presses instead of to the connectors. I'm sort of holding back a bit to do that until my buttons come in so i only have to take the dash apart once and do everything.

I also have a hand brake from a sega rally game I'm hoping to get mounted soon. I don't think I'll be able to bolt it directly because of how the seat lifts up so i may need to create some sort if bracket for it.

I happened to see another logitech wheel online this week about 30 mins away from my house for $20 bucks so i went and grabbed that. Figured why not it's better to have it just in case. Plus i can use it for setting games up outside of my cab.

Still messing with settings and parameters surrounding the force feedback. It's proving to be a pain because of how different all the games are. I had it working great in scud race and then loaded up Daytona 2 and it was way off. Super model is also very on in development so it's sort of difficult to change all the parameters.

The other problem I'm having is making sure the amc works nicely when the logitech is connected to the ps2 because there isn't any software configuration that you can change around so it all has to be hardware based.



That's basically where I'm at now.... Still tons of work to do and not enough hours in the day ;) hopefully in the next fee days I'll be able to get a bunch more done on it though as i finished most of my house repairs last night

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I look forward to the progress, Im still trying to figure out why Model 2 emu wont send force feedback, prolly the roms I have. If you have a buncha PS2 games you dont want, I'll pay you the cost of shipping them to me =)
If you are helping someone and expecting something in return, you are doing business not kindness.

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I look forward to the progress, Im still trying to figure out why Model 2 emu wont send force feedback, prolly the roms I have. If you have a buncha PS2 games you dont want, I'll pay you the cost of shipping them to me =)

My girlfriend's dad already got dibs on the ones I picked up with that wheel. I may have some in the next while though because about two Weeks ago i bought a hard drive adapter for my ps2 so i wouldn't have to change discs in the driving cab. I haven't had a chance to get a hard drive yet though but once i do and get the games loaded up on it i probably won't need the discs any more.

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any more progress ?

Its your fault Ive sunk like $300 into a pole position cabinet to make it a "real" racing cab. Well, its gbeef's fault too  :lol

Lol.. sorry man. I'm doing an upgrade on mine also.. This cabinet is like a money pit!...
Ill be posting updated pics soon:)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 02:11:14 pm by gbeef »


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I should also mention that today I've been toying with another idea in my head. I'm beginning to get the feeling this isn't going to be a 'set it and leave it type system'. From what i can gather every game on every system has different force feedback strengths etc.

I've been thinking that I may be  able to replace the 12 turn put in the amc for the reference in gain with a pot mounted somewhere around the front of my cab hidden with a knob on it. That way i can easily adjust my reference in gain depending in what game i load up. I would simply need a 12 turn pot with the same value as the one in the amc and solder it onto the connection points.

Just a thought at this point. I'm open to opinions suggestions on it.

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Heres the thing. you could do that if your planning on using the cabinet for yourself. The reason why im upgrading my wheel like yours and badmouth is because when i have company over they reef on the wheel. Also messing around with settings is not in the cards.


Havent you tried the Logitech profiler for each emulation?.
I got me EX wheel and the FFB is weaker then my G27.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 09:34:01 pm by gbeef »


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Heres the thing. you could do that if your planning on using the cabinet for yourself. The reason why im upgrading my wheel like yours and badmoon is because when i have company over they reef on the wheel. Also messing around with settings is not in the cards.


Havent you tried the Logitech profiler for each emulation?.
I got me EX wheel and the FFB is weaker then my G27.

Correct that pot would have to be hidden and only used by myself. my guests are not the brightest, i must have told at least 5 people how to choose a car in scud race at my Halloween party even though it's flagging right across the screen to select using the wheel and use the gas pedal to choose it. For my"guest setup" I'll need a very few games with no setup or thinking required simply sit down hit start.

I think with enough patience I'll be able to setup all the PC games to a useable state with software adjustments and logitech profiler.


for myself it would be nice for using the ps2 (which my guests won't be able to use, too many menus etc) because the games are so drastically different and there is no software control.



As far as your ex wheel being weaker then your g27 from what i was able to research they both use the same force feedback language there would only be differences in motor specs gears etc. they should theoretically output the same signal if you hooked either one up to the amc. This again is only based off information i got online though and may be inaccurate

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OK I got my buttons in today so I ripped the dash out and have it back on the bench. Unfortunately the buttons are too long though. They hit one of the motor mount brackets and there is really no way I can cut it out.





Not sure what I'm going to do, I'll have to think on it a bit. Worst case I will have to order new buttons. Hopefully find a daytona view panel or something that is reasonably priced.

Now that I'm happy with everything working electrically I'll be doing the pad hack and mounting the servo amp, power supply, all that good stuff and doing the "real wiring" that will hopefully be a lot more organized.

This is the hand brake from the sega rally I hope to attach in the near future as well.



Its sort of hard to see in these pics but the base of the sega rally seat is quite a bit taller so I'm going to have to create some bracket on the emergency call seat because of how tall the hand brake mount is. Alternatively I could try and switch bases (which doesn't look like a direct swap either).




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OK I got my buttons in today so I ripped the dash out and have it back on the bench. Unfortunately the buttons are too long though. They hit one of the motor mount brackets and there is really no way I can cut it out.
Not sure what I'm going to do, I'll have to think on it a bit. Worst case I will have to order new buttons. Hopefully find a daytona view panel or something that is reasonably priced.

You haven't read my or gbeef's thread, or watched my video about my new dash?  :lol

To save you the trouble, gbeef cut the center section out of his buttons to make them shorter.
I used video lottery terminal (VLT) buttons from happ, and I paid out the ass for them.
I still had to cut my start button down.  They turned out awesome, but I haven't put any pics up.
(for some reason, I can't seem to wrap up the wiring for the steering wheel buttons & can't decide on where to put an exit button)

EDIT: That E-brake is friggin' awesome!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 08:22:15 pm by BadMouth »

brad808

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OK I got my buttons in today so I ripped the dash out and have it back on the bench. Unfortunately the buttons are too long though. They hit one of the motor mount brackets and there is really no way I can cut it out.
Not sure what I'm going to do, I'll have to think on it a bit. Worst case I will have to order new buttons. Hopefully find a daytona view panel or something that is reasonably priced.

You haven't read my or gbeef's thread, or watched my video about my new dash?  :lol

To save you the trouble, gbeef cut the center section out of his buttons to make them shorter.
I used video lottery terminal (VLT) buttons from happ, and I paid out the ass for them.
I still had to cut my start button down.  They turned out awesome, but I haven't put any pics up.
(for some reason, I can't seem to wrap up the wiring for the steering wheel buttons & can't decide on where to put an exit button)

EDIT: That E-brake is friggin' awesome!

Busted  :-[. Serves me right then I suppose. Thanks for the tip I'll have take a look and see if it's something I can modify or if I need to search for new ones.

The ebrake is cool, it has a nice sturdy "arcade" feel to it. I haven't opened it up but it has good feeling resistance to it almost like the brake pedals with rubber in them etc to give it a more authentic feel. I just need a good way to mount it up.

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whats wrong with the original buttons?
couldn't you just hack something with those?

Nice ebrake!...


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whats wrong with the original buttons?
couldn't you just hack something with those?

Nice ebrake!...

The original buttons work great and it's what I have been using. The only problem is there is only two of them a start and one view. I'd like to have a start and four view buttons for the games that support it. Not really a game changer if I don't have four but it would be nice.

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yeah i hear ya. i have a sega rally which was only 2. I did manage to score a 5 button Daytona.
Where did you find the e-brake from ive been looking all over the place for one!.. nice find.


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yeah i hear ya. i have a sega rally which was only 2. I did manage to score a 5 button Daytona.
Where did you find the e-brake from ive been looking all over the place for one!.. nice find.

I'm looking at a Daytona view panel on Ebay but it's $50. I'm sure I'll find something eventually but i don't "need" it... Especially don't "$50 need it".

The ebrake actually came from the guy that i got the cabinet from. He gave me an extra seat (with the ebrake),  an extra model 3 ffb motor and mount, and an extra set of gas and brake pedals which was pretty cool.

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Brackets off ebrake:


Inside ebrake, has 2 rubber stops on each end and a rubber resistance in the middle at the top.


1 3/4" square bar from my weight bench










Can't go right on the seat mount because it's unconfortably close to the seat that way and won't be able to adjust seat back

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nice. mod. looking for an e-brake now but have no clue what game.:(
That's awesome.
Hey just wondering what pot sizes you used for your wheel and peddles?


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nice. mod. looking for an e-brake now but have no clue what game.:(
That's awesome.
Hey just wondering what pot sizes you used for your wheel and peddles?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=115186.msg1221938#msg1221938
bottom of reply #11  

(stuck at work and don't feel like working ;D  )

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nice. mod. looking for an e-brake now but have no clue what game.:(
That's awesome.
Hey just wondering what pot sizes you used for your wheel and peddles?

I'm not entirely sold on the ebrake mount yet, i haven't attached it just mock fit. Im going to re think the idea of trying to attach the taller seat. I.ve been thinking today that i might pick up some new diamond plate for the floor and mount the seat. If i don't get diamond pate then there will be weird holes because the seats mount way different.I'll have to Wait till i get home to check.

It's been a little slow going lately for some reason life is leaving me no spare time so i booked the second week of December off to get a good amount of work done.

Pots we're 100kohm for stearing, 50kohm for pedals.


Edit: I believe the game it came from was a sega rally 2
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 04:58:16 pm by brad808 »

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yeah i hear ya its always busy around the holidays so far so good.
Ill try looking at Sega rally 2. but i don't recall an ebrake on those machines. I know they vary for sure.
Did you get your pots from eBay? or is there another place you can suggest?



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Yea I just did a quick google search and it looks like there is a few different cabinet styles

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=sega+rally+championship+arcade&start=151&num=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1440&bih=775&tbm=isch&tbnid=6AQhTLbpxfK7UM:&imgrefurl=http://www.executiveamusements.co.uk/product/101/17/sega_rally_2_twin_arcade_driving_game&docid=FTOacA2km-oYDM&imgurl=http://www.executiveamusements.co.uk/shopimages/products/normal/Rally%2525202%252520shot%2525202.jpg&w=800&h=850&ei=C83KTpbCAYj00gHKp6k0&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=314&sig=110496786837212288909&sqi=2&page=6&tbnh=126&tbnw=119&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:151&tx=67&ty=46

you can see them in this pic.


I bought the potentiometers a local electronic supply stores. I'm sure you can find some on ebay or the likes but you might be better off just taking your gear that goes onto the pot into a store so you can find a decent match. Don't stress too much if the shaft on the pot isn't exact as long as it can be modified. As an example I couldn't find any pots with a flatted shaft only full round shafts so I bought the round ones and took a dremel tool with a grinding stone and flattened the one end so it would fit my gear properly.
Another tip is to make sure you GET "linear" potentiometers. DO NOT get logarithmic pots (They are usually used for volume control) and not suitable for this type of application.

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New FFB comparison video:

new 12v power supply on donor wheel




uploading another video now showing some boring stuff regarding mount and wiring



« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 08:42:21 pm by brad808 »

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2011, 08:57:34 pm »
Here is the other video showing boring stuff, just for people that want a bit of help. Nothing exciting for the average person in this one


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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2011, 10:06:25 pm »
Thanks Brad - very helpful. "Pretty Exciting Hey!"   :lol

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2011, 11:13:15 am »
Thanks for the vid.  :cheers:
I'm sure it will be very helpful to people doing this hack.
I need to get mine wrapped up, but have had too much other stuff going on.

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Thanks Brad - very helpful. "Pretty Exciting Hey!"   :lol

No problem, hopefully helps clear a bit up. 

It actually says "pretty exciting eh!".......I'm Canadian! :D


Trust me i hear you on not having time. Remember that wall i said i was repairing two months ago after a plumbing incident...... Yea still working on that too ;)

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2011, 07:42:17 pm »
*** Disclaimer - this is mainly my experiment/ troubleshooting of the night***

OK so after spending the last few hours working on tweaking the ffb effects I've discovered quite a bit. The back and forth "rattle" is caused anytime the "centering feedback" or "spring feedback" is above 2.5-3V output from the logitech. My thoughts about this are that because the resistance is so much less with the happ/sega gears vs the logitech gears that it requires much less to center the wheel without "overshooting" so to speak and have to constantly try and correct itself. Could also have a bit to do with the gear ratios being a bit different. I would assume the numbers would be slightly different depending on full setup (servo amp, power supply used on either amp or logitech)

The Centering feedback seems to be in menus, and while not in a race. For instance the centering feedback will work without even an application loaded up.
The spring feedback seems to be in race, not even in application because menus etc will still center with this turned off. in race spring feedback is what controls the centering not "centering feedback"
hope that makes sense.

what I'm about to say applies to both centering and spring depending whether you are either not in application/race (centering), or in race (spring)

When in windows manager/logitech profiler I can have the ffb effects up as high as I like (until my power supply for the logitech reaches full that is - 12V) with no negative reaction from the wheel. If I have the centering feedback above 12-14% in this case showing 1.8V I have no negative effects as far as rattle is concerned. When the voltage is above 2.5-3 the output from the amc will go from a steady 0V at center to 24V at full lock in a "linear" i suppose manner. When the centering feedback is above the percentage that = over 3V the output of the amc will go from 0V at center (12 oclock) to 24V at about 2 oclock (maybe 10-20% of full lock).

The reason the "rattle" will return depending on which game is loaded up seems to be in how the game deals with centering feedback, with all other feedback effects being irrelevant. example - I load up scud race in menus and standing still in a race (no other force feedback effects but centering/spring) has at most 2.5V while pulling the wheel full lock, plays fine, load daytona, Menus and in race not moving most it will pull centering feedback is 1.8 volts, plays fine. Load up daytona 2, Menus fine, standing still in race with wheel at full lock is 3.8 volts and causes "rattle". While driving in daytona 2 all other force feedback effects such as wall smashes etc are fine, but for some reason the centering feedback is much higher and causes issues.

Now I know very little about force feedback "languages/programing" if you will but it seems as though it would be ideal to have individual control over the separate parameters on a per game basis. model 2 emulator seems to have access to each of the parameters to tweak but on an emulator wide basis. Model 3 emulator doesn't appear to have any control over the separate paramenters, just basic ffb on or ffb off. As far as I can see logitech profiler can set the individual parameters on a per application basis.



Those are my findings of the night, still trying to work it all out, but that is where I am at the moment



Oh yea managed to get a daytona view panel as well.



EDIT: Brainstorming idea - Have each rom attached to a different emulator (model 3.1.exe, model 3.2.exe, model 3.3.exe) and use logitech profiler to setup a profile for each exe with different ffb parameters. That might allow individual games to have separate ffb effects while still being able to use a front end to load each game. Just each game would technically be using its own version of the emulator.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 08:12:29 pm by brad808 »

BadMouth

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2011, 11:01:16 pm »
For reference, settings for individual games can be set in the Supermodel cfg file like so:
Code: [Select]
[ scuda ]

DirectInputConstForceMax = 400
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 200
DirectInputFrictionMax = 0

Unfortunately, with Daytona 2, centering feedback is not controlled by DirectInputSelfCenterMax.
Changing DirectInputSelfCenterMax has no effect in daytona2.
Both effects and centering force is controlled by DirectInputConstForceMax

Some more info on this here:
http://www.supermodel3.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=97&p=904&hilit=DirectInputSelfCenterMax#p904
Nikk offers an explanation on the next page and sent an alternate build to the guys who were having issues.
Maybe the next build will have some type of adjustment built in.

I'd pretty much came to the same conclusion you did about making alternative exes and correcting it with profiler.

Of course, since only Daytona 2 and Scud Race support ffb at the moment, you could lower the strength in logitech profiler until Daytona 2 behaves, then crank it up in the cfg for Scud Race. DirectInputSelfCenterMax works as expected for Scud Race.
EDIT: guess that would just make for weak feedback in Daytona 2
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 11:17:50 pm by BadMouth »

brad808

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2011, 06:13:54 am »
For reference, settings for individual games can be set in the Supermodel cfg file like so:
Code: [Select]
[ scuda ]

DirectInputConstForceMax = 400
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 100
DirectInputVibrateMax = 200
DirectInputFrictionMax = 0

Unfortunately, with Daytona 2, centering feedback is not controlled by DirectInputSelfCenterMax.
Changing DirectInputSelfCenterMax has no effect in daytona2.
Both effects and centering force is controlled by DirectInputConstForceMax

Some more info on this here:
http://www.supermodel3.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=97&p=904&hilit=DirectInputSelfCenterMax#p904
Nikk offers an explanation on the next page and sent an alternate build to the guys who were having issues.
Maybe the next build will have some type of adjustment built in.

I'd pretty much came to the same conclusion you did about making alternative exes and correcting it with profiler.

Of course, since only Daytona 2 and Scud Race support ffb at the moment, you could lower the strength in logitech profiler until Daytona 2 behaves, then crank it up in the cfg for Scud Race. DirectInputSelfCenterMax works as expected for Scud Race.
EDIT: guess that would just make for weak feedback in Daytona 2

Awesome information man, thanks a lot for that. It's going to be like gold for me next week while I'm setting up my front end and software tweaking each game. From this point on I'm going to be focussing on software related settings as I'm quite happy with where the hack is from a hardware standpoint. Clearly you have discovered much more of the individual ffb effects then I have! looks like I have some more reading to do. At this point though I'm feeling confident that I will be able to properly setup and tweak all pc based games and emulators to have a very nice system.

This may however be the "death" of having the ps2 in the cabinet. It doesn't appear that there is any proper way to control individual aspects of the force feedback. Most games that I have loaded up have something very general (over all strength, low, medium, high). Basically stuck with whatever the creator of the game has the "centering feedback" and "effects feedback" set at so to speak. If those two settings are very close together then the overall force feedback would have to be lowered too much to bring the "centering Feedback" into the proper range for my wheel that the "effects feedback" is unusually low. If the difference between the two is very large then the game would work fine because I could simply lower the overall strength (either from settings or possibly a potentiometer) to bring the value associated with "centering" into the correct range, while still having usable "effect feedback".

It may not be the complete end to having the ps2 in the cabinet but it is definitely a big blow. There are a lot of games though (and a lot of kick ass games that I would want to play on my cabinet) so I might have to go through each game and see which ones will fit into the range that I need to use. For the time being though the PS2 will be on the back burner and my focus will be getting/ setting up a new pc in the cabinet.

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2011, 10:17:33 am »
I'll try to find time this weekend to do a Supermodel write-up.
There are a lot of "tricks" to get the most out of it.

I have Scud Race, Scude Race Plus, Daytona 2, Daytona 2PE, & Lemans 24 (w/ working shifter and fog disabled) on my cab.
The graphics in Sega Rally 2 are still too messed up for my taste.

I'd eventually like to do a setup guide for each emulator, but ones like Demul and Vivanonno rely on autohotkey scripts that need to be tweaked depending on your specific setup and OS.  Just about every script that I wrote on my main vista pc needed to be altered to get it to work on my driving cab.  I have a fear that if I post my scripts, it will just result in an endless stream of new members complaining that they don't work for them.

Driving cabs aren't for the plug n play crowd.  ;)
(but once set up, they are well worth it)

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2011, 04:16:20 pm »
Well I made a quick update video and it failed to load so here is whats been happening:

- Bought a new computer. This is what I ended up with
Asus p5g41t-m LX
Dual core e6700 @3.3ghz
4gig kinston ram
3450 series video card 256mb ram

At first I tried the new i3 2120 processor thinking I would get good performance in mame but not so much. For some reason my old e3300 overclocked to 3ghz outperformed it. The i3 was giving me stuttering in the cruisn games and I couldn't live with it so I went with the older and cheaper (but in this case better) e6700. As for video cards I tried 1gig 5xxx series card, was a no go, kept defaulting to 4bit colours. Tried 512 en210 series card, also a no go. Ended up going with the same card as in my mame cab and it works perfect.


- In the process of setting up all games in their own folder with each attached to their own emulator. This gives me individual profiles in logitech profiler as well as each game having their own emulator.ini file so I can modify ffb effects on a per game basis.

- Got my sequential shifter working in model 2 games using a modified script for glovepie.

Things I need to keep working on:
- Would like to find out how I can possibly setup an auto script so that my glovepie script will run/stop when model 2 is running/stopped.

- Would also like to find out a good way to setup a hyperspin wheel with all of my individual emulators/games.



Hopefully I can get my video up and I'll post it

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Re: Sega Model 3 Multi Driving Cabinet (Dec 5th - New FFB Video) *Pic Warning*
« Reply #71 on: December 22, 2011, 11:02:50 pm »
Got my daytona view panel in today! Had to get that installed nice and quick before the weekend. I'm glad I ended up finding one for a reasonable price because I'm sure if I stuck the square buttons in there I would have ended up changing them at some point for the ones I really wanted.



I used the original harness that connects the the view panel. Ended up breaking the common line for the start button and wiring up separately due to the whole weird wiring on the driving force.

From marks:
                                       
From Pin #   To Pin #    Button
8   12   Square
8   13   Cross
8   14   Circle
8   15   Triangle
9   14   Start
9   15   Select



I used the main line for 8 and then broke it connected my own for 9. Put diodes on the opposite ends near the driving force pcb. Cut off all pcb's for the pads and wired directly into the connector. Makes for a much neater mess behind my wheel ;)

As far as hardware is concerned It's almost done in my eyes. Only other thing I might consider adding besides the ebrake (which hasn't been installed because I'm just not happy with it yet) is a 4 speed shifter. I say might because I'm not convinced I want one. The gear up/gear down has been working good for me so far but I may run into problems once I start setting up mame. Pretty sure most games that used 4 way shifters in mame won't accept up/down style. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it I guess.

The cabinet is getting to that dangerous stage though where it's fully playable and that makes for a few very unproductive evenings  :cheers:


Edit: I should also add that I haven't started my front end yet. Up until this point on the weekends when I have friends over I've just been loading up a game for the night. One that I've already got completely setup and won't cause problems just so we have something to play. I've been more focused on setting up the individual games and force feedback to perfection vs getting a bunch of unusable games into my front end. My plan now that I have a few games that are ready for prime time is to start my front end and then slowly perfect more games and add them in one at a time...... until I have every racing game known to man.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 11:14:47 pm by brad808 »

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Great work Brad.

I'm about a month behind you.  I'm not even thinking about the frontend / individual game settings yet - kinda dreading it!  So I hope to learn from your efforts!

My servo amp and new graphics card turned up today.  I'll be off to by a 24v PSU tomorrow and hopefully I'll get the FFB working over the Xmas break!

Merry Xmas  :cheers:

Scotto

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do you have any more pics of that panel i need to solder mine also. Thanks for the numbers on PIN! wicked work!
Also do you have any ideas on how to light the buttons?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 11:46:52 am by gbeef »


My cabs
4 Player Arcade
X-men Arcade Remixed
My Pin Cab Attack of the PINZ cab
My Racing Cabinet Cab [URL=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=

brad808

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do you have any more pics of that panel i need to solder mine also. Thanks for the numbers on PIN! wicked work!
Also do you have any ideas on how to light the buttons?

I'll try and get some more pics up so you can see a little better what exactly I did. I have an idea of how I'm going to light the buttons but at this point its just an idea I haven't put it into practice. Basically what's left on the harness is 5 or 6 wires which I assume are to light each button individually (again haven't put any of this into practice and didn't have too much time last night to dink around with it). My plan is to tap into my computers power supply from one of the molex connectors and use the 12v from there to power all the lights. Basically anytime the computer is on all the lights will be on as well, no real plan as of right now to control them individually. May work, may not Ill know better when I rip the dash off again to take some more pictures I'll check a little closer.


Just incase you haven't seen it this is where I got the numbers for the logitech wiring. It's very specific to the logitech driving force but real good info.
http://home.comcast.net/~mshaker/marks_arcade_006.htm

brad808

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Made a quick little video about changing potentiometers for anyone interested



I haven't updated the project thread in a little while but the project definitely isn't dead. I'll make a video shortly to show where it's at and some of the changes I've made. I've spent a bunch of time making little tweaks and adjustments to lot's of parts. Still a lot on the to-do list though with no real end in sight right now. Oh and been doing lots of playing too! Installed Grid for the first time two days ago and I'm hooked on it. I suck at it right now but it doesn't take away from it being an awesome game (that works perfectly with my controls FFB and all).

brad808

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Went down tonight to play some Grid and got a little side tracked. Decided it was time to get that e-brake installed somehow so I could compete in the drift competitions. Pulled the seat off and the adjustment bracket that allows you to move forward and backwards with the seat and I got side tracked again....

It's been in my head since last week when I went to an arcade and was playing some new driving games that my cabinet is lacking in the bass area. After I left the arcade I went home and hooked up the subwoofer under the seat but it didn't have the feeling of power behind it. At the arcade I was rumbling and at my house It sounded like a crappy under powered subwoofer.

When I had my seats upside down this is what I discovered.

Emergency call seat:


Sega Rally? 2? seat:


Both beside each other


So as you can see my emergency call seat had a small subwoofer inside, while the sega rally? 2? seat had a bass shaker inside.
http://www.amazon.com/Aura-AST-2B-4-Pro-Bass-Shaker/dp/B0002ZPTBI

I couldn't direct swap the bass shaker into my seat mount because of how the shaker mounted vs the subwoofer. You can see how the bracket was much deeper to make room for the shaker to attach directly to the supporting braces that go up the back of the seat where the gold coloured bolts attach. I'm assuming this is to make sure the shaker will rattle the whole seat.


The subwoofer on the other hand didn't attach to anything it simply sat in a hole. It attached with four screws, two up top, two bellow but the screwed into the plastic and didn't attach to the support bars that go up the back of the seat. The whole seat is plastic and not suitable for mounting the shaker on.


I ended up mounting the shaker onto the top of the seat back/forth slider so that it would be bolted directly to the supporting braces up the back of the seat and still have a solid metal surface to vibrate on. The shaker then has the clearance from the old subwoofer hole to sit and not get in the way. The slider as shown here has to be flipped upside down to be bolted.



Technically the shaker is mounted 180 degreed so the way it was mounted before ie it sat flat side to the seat/ fin side to the ground, and now it sits flat side to the ground/ fin side facing towards the seat.

I would like to add an actual subwoofer back into the system at some point but I will probably mount one below the floor where I have my other components such as computer mounted. The shaker is more suited for under the seat where you can feel it vs the bass which can be heard from anywhere in the cabinet.

On an unrelated note I finally got around to installing a power button for my pc. Beats lifting up the seat and touching two loose wires together. It's the little red one in the middle.




So much for playing any games tonight! Still no e-brake!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 08:15:52 pm by brad808 »

brad808

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OK so finally came up with a solution that I like for the e-brake. Basically it's an adapter that adds on to the seat where the holes for the seat mount already are. I chose to do it this way because it leaves the machine completely unaltered and I can simply unbolt it if I need to change it or for whatever reason am not happy with it/ don't want it. The only thing that was permanently altered was the bottom of the e-brake itself. I drilled 4 new holes in the bottom of it. I used 1/4" galvanized plate to make sure it was nice and strong and it's what was laying around. I was pulling on it pretty hard and it shows no sign of being weak. Basically if your playing harder then that on my machine then you shouldn't be playing kind of idea.

The only change I might make to it is use a flat black paint instead of gloss black. The flash from my camera really makes it stand out but in person you would have to be actually staring right at it looking for imperfections to notice any difference.

Here's the plate I cut out and drilled the holes in.


Used a countersink bit to make the bottom flush


The black piece is the bottom of the e-brake


All put together and installed










The flash really brings out the worst in my cabinet but in my dark lit basement it looks great  ;D

I don't have the wires hooked up yet (it's just a simple microswitch inside) because I haven't got around to taking off the dash yet. Hopefully that will be job for this weekend. I'm planning on wiring up the lights in my view panel and adding a new rubber stop to my steering assembly. Mine is rotten and you can hear the metal hitting metal if you pull it to full lock.

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It's my experience that most things are better in the dark  >:D

Great work with the brake too.
I finally got GRID installed today - so I'm gonna have to get looking into software/frontends soon.

Peace-out
Scott

brad808

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Just shows how to wire a few switches on the logitech driving force.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 11:15:03 am by brad808 »

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Hey brad, could you explain a little more about how you hooked up the vr buttons? I already hacked the pads so I will be doing it that way. I had it hooked up and worked fine. Soon as I hooked up my start button I was getting random button presses. I was watching your video on the different wheel reactions. I cant get mine to react as fast and hard as yours does. I have my dips set like you and have my pots like yours. One other thing, did you use the monitor that was in the cab or a tv. If so, how did you hook it up?
         

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What I did with the buttons was essentially bypass the circuit boards where the pads would get pressed and connected the buttons to the main pcb. When doing this you need to connect diodes to each switch. The logitech wheel doesn't use a common ground and instead uses a small matrix of sorts to figure out what buttons are being pressed. If you are connecting to where the pads would press you don't need to add diodes as they are already on the pcb. If you look on the side where the button would press you will see little black components labelled D1, D2, D3 etc, those are the diodes. If you are having problems with random button presses a couple things I would really look at closely are:
1) Making sure that the button traces are all complete and none are broken.
2) If you soldered onto the pcb make sure that none of the solder accidently made a connection to the other half of the button. Make sure that you have continuity from the pcb to the actual switch (in other words make sure that the wires you soldered onto the pcb are good).
3) Check the diodes to make sure they are still good. To do this take a digital multimeter and put it in diode setting. Put the black lead onto the side that has the 2 solder points and the red on the side with one solder point, you should get no signal. Now reverse the leads and you should get signal (mine are around 530). Don't just check the one at the start button check the other ones as well.


Funny you should ask about my monitor because I just changed it around on Saturday (4 days ago). I was using a 27" dual resolution arcade monitor that had 15khz/24khz. I connected to that using soft15khz with a ati 3450 video card. On Saturday I installed a new monitor, it's a 27" 31khz arcade monitor. The reason I decided to swap the monitor out is so that I could buy a newer more powerful video card. Not a lot of new video cards are working with soft15khz yet and it's more of a pain then anything. I was having problems getting my model 3 games running at 60fps and with a more powerful video card I can get some of the newer pc games running a bit smoother and with higher detailed graphics.

As far as the feedback is concerned. Before you start setting up the amc go into logitech profiler (don't use windows device manager yet) go into Options>Global Device Settings and turn down "Spring Effect Strength" and "Centering Spring Strenth". These are the two settings that cause the "rattle". To test it out turn them both right off to 0% (you have to hit OK for the settings to take effect). Rattle dissapears. Now what you have to do is find out which percentage is a good point for your exact setup (the potentiometers on the amc will effect this, you will need some trial and error). I have both of mine default at 12%, may be a good starting point for you. This gives me a bit of room to move it up or down depending on which game I'm playing. When I was testing each game has a different point that the "rattle" will start at and I set up a new profile for each game. I was able to succesfuly remove the rattle while maintaining a good feeling centering feedback in each game using either logitech profiler or emulator settings or a combination of both.

My pots are:
#1 Loop gain - All the way counter clockwise
#2 Current Limit - Is 6 turns clockwise
#3 Reference In gain - Before you adjust this unplug the wheel from the computer and then plug it back in (again just make sure you don't open the windows controller options - where you can test the different ffb effects, some weird stuff happens when you go in there and it seems to hold those weird parameters until you use the wheel for a different game or unplug it). Put a voltmeter on the Motor outputs 1 and 2 from the amc. You should be able to turn the wheel all the way to the left or right and have the voltmeter read +24V or -24V depending on which side you turn the wheel. If its over or under then adjust the reference in pot until it reads 24V at full lock. If its slightly higher on one side then the other adjust pot #4
#4 Offset - Put a voltmeter on Motor outputs 1 and 2 from the amc (motor + and motor -) adjust this pot until the voltmeter reads 0, or very close to 0 when the wheel is at center.


The windows game controller page is bad. From what I can gather it basically works as its own game and loads up its own "profile" to the wheel. Basically however the wheel reacts in that means nothing. It has its own individual settings for ffb just like every other game has its own ffb settings. It can really screw things up when you are trying to trouble shoot the ffb effects in game and then switching and adjusting things in windows game controller menu. I spent many a hour messing around with that before I realized what a piece of crap it was and how badly it was screwing up my trouble shooting. I'd say just skip it entirely, and load up the game you want and start adjusting each game until it feels good using the emulator ini files and creating profiles in logitechs program.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 05:43:52 pm by brad808 »

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I had the wires hooked to the button side of the pcb. I hooked the other wires to the common ground on the other side. the buttons worked until I hooked up the start button. I was getting random button presses when i pushed start. If I only have the start button hooked up, then its fine. Im guessing I cant have all the same side wired as a ground. I was going to solder right to the pcb on the vr buttons. But Im not sure what out of the 6 pins per button are which.
         

brad808

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If your talking about the pcb for the vr buttons then you have to break the ground trace to separate the buttons, like I said the logitech pcb doesnt use a common ground so it will cause problems such as random presses if they are all connected. If you want to find out what wires are for what buttons on the connector leaving the vr pcb then take an ohm meter connect one lead to the ground and physically hold the button closed. Go through each cable on the connector with the other lead and eventually you will find one that reads 0 ohms resistance. Let go of the button and you should see it go to infinite resistance... That will be your cable for that particular switch.

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I had the wires hooked to the button side of the pcb. I hooked the other wires to the common ground on the other side. the buttons worked until I hooked up the start button. I was getting random button presses when i pushed start. If I only have the start button hooked up, then its fine. Im guessing I cant have all the same side wired as a ground. I was going to solder right to the pcb on the vr buttons. But Im not sure what out of the 6 pins per button are which.

Daytona VR panel related post w. pinouts/schematics.


Scott

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  • Last login:October 05, 2020, 12:09:49 pm
  • Yep... I built that!!
I dont mean to take over your thread so I will ask questions in my thread.