Ultrastik 360 centering issues

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

I'm having a bit of trouble with my new U360.  I've just fitted a circular restrictor & stiff spring but it seems to be sticking.  The stick  doesn't return naturally to the centre which is a bit of a problem..   Has anyone else had this problem with U360s?  If so whats the way around it? 

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

I've replaced the new stiff spring with the old one, it seems to be an improvement.  I'm not totally sold on this joystick!

[drventure]

I've had lots of probs like that with my 360's. I like them because, being analog, they're super flexible in how you can map them and the games they can play while feeling very natural.

The prob with mine seems to be that the pivot bearing inside gets gummed up and sticky over time.

I've tried several different solutions, but the latest round seems to be working the best so far. It's a silicon lube that was recommended by the guys at Ultimarc. I picked  up  tube off ebay.

It's been a month they they're still smooth. We'll see how long it lasts...

And mine already have to longer shafts and stiffer springs.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

It just wont ping back to dead centre, I've taken it apart and cant really see a way round it - the little pivot is the problem. It has improved with the lighter spring but its still not ideal..

[Nephasth]

The prob with mine seems to be that the pivot bearing inside gets gummed up and sticky over time.

I've tried several different solutions, but the latest round seems to be working the best so far. It's a silicon lube that was recommended by the guys at Ultimarc. I picked  up  tube off ebay.

I've got the same problem with my most used U360. I sprayed it with a silicone spray and it helped for a bit. Do you have a link to the stuff you bought?

[AndyWarne]

Silicone grease on the cup shaped bearing after cleaning it will cure this problem long-term. I think we have in the past shipped some of these with insufficient or no grease, a situation now rectified.

Andy

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

So whats the best thing to use?  Something like this?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/multi-purpose-siliconegrease-29006

http://www.maplin.co.uk/silicone-grease-with-ptfe-30030

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Or maybe either of these?

http://www.diy.com/nav/build/motoring-workshop-tools/car-care-oils/wd40_multi_purpose_oil___grease/3-in-1-Oil-Pro-Silicone-Spray-Lubricant-9415305

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_219033_langId_-1_categoryId_165705#tab3

[PL1]

Here are a couple of joystick lube options from/based on other threads.
(HT -- RandyT)

Most likely option based on Randy's earlier post:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=119002.msg1260414#msg1260414
http://www.harborfreight.com/85-gram-super-lube-grease-cartridge-93744.html
Apply with a small brush to ensure a thin, even coat.

or

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=83615.msg873591#msg873591
http://www.harborfreight.com/silicone-spray-94529.html


Scott

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

So its a heavy lube in a tube rather than a spray I need?

[PL1]

So its a heavy lube in a tube rather than a spray I need?

Based on Andy's post in this thread and what I read in the the first thread of my earlier post, the tube of grease looks like the right thing, but I figured that Andy would weigh in, since he is the subject matter expert on the sticks in question.


Scott

P.S. Amazon also carries Super Lube.

Edit:
After closely reviewing the two threads linked in my earlier post, it looks like the silicone spray in a can is for noise like creaking springs, while the heavy silicone grease in a tube is for smooth movement at the pivot point.

Am I correct in this interpretation?

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Super lube is a bit harder to find in the uk, I found something similar at Maplin so hopefully it will work.  These U360s are a pain in the ass!

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Ok, silicone lubed the stick.  It does return to the centre better but I still have the same problem.  There is an area around the centre the joystick sticks and doesnt go quite back to centre, meaning that for instance on my desktop if i move my arrow left release the stick the arrow continues moving left.  Kinda annoying.  Any ideas how to get round this problem?

[PL1]

I found something similar at Maplin so hopefully it will work. 

Hope it's not this one.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/contralube-770-connector-lubricant-346030

It's not silicone based, and could cause the plastic to break down.

"Contralube 770 is silicone free." - http://www.newgateonline.com/product/Contralube_770%2C_75gram_tube_CL1001


Scott

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

No its not that one

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

I suppose it could be possible to extend the centre using U360 maps.. That would probably solve the problem.

[PL1]

Ok, silicone lubed the stick.  It does return to the centre better but I still have the same problem.  There is an area around the centre the joystick sticks and doesnt go quite back to centre, meaning that for instance on my desktop if i move my arrow left release the stick the arrow continues moving left.  Kinda annoying.  Any ideas how to get round this problem?

This thread may have a few things for you to check.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108977.0


Scott

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Cheers, lots of people with the same problem.  Looks to me like a design flaw with the pivot.  It only happens in analog mode.  I think adding a dead zone will help. 

This stick has a lot of plus points but I am pretty close to replacing it - not returning to the centre is a bit of a deal breaker..  Considering the price of the stick and  required extras its not unreasonable to want it to centre without having to perform major surgery 

[eds1275]

How big is the dead zone on your stick? Everything I've ever played that is analogue no matter the price always had a decent sized dead zone, I think it's just the nature of the beast. I don't have a u360 though they are my eventual plan.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

I'm making the dead zone as big as possible, its slightly better but still not great

[Gray_Area]

I'm making the dead zone as big as possible, its slightly better but still not great

As I've said before, the base is a Sanwa. The design is such that it cannot firmly return to 'geometrical' center. It is a problem that can mostly be solved with custom maps....although, occasionally (often after several boards in DK, for example) I find the detection 'drifts', and I have to un-plug and re-detect the stick. I have a custom restrictor, and have had to change the scale factor from 9 to 5...and recently to 6 (including special maps that cater to it). It's just a consequence of a design tolerance that doesn't quite match the functionality tolerance.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Exactly.  Its a shame about this flaw as its otherwise a good stick. 

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

On another note - does anyone know how to stop the ultrastik controlling the windows pointer?  I'm sure theres a setting somwhere but just cant find it.

[AndyWarne]

I'm making the dead zone as big as possible, its slightly better but still not great

As I've said before, the base is a Sanwa. The design is such that it cannot firmly return to 'geometrical' center. It is a problem that can mostly be solved with custom maps....although, occasionally (often after several boards in DK, for example) I find the detection 'drifts', and I have to un-plug and re-detect the stick. I have a custom restrictor, and have had to change the scale factor from 9 to 5...and recently to 6 (including special maps that cater to it). It's just a consequence of a design tolerance that doesn't quite match the functionality tolerance.

If thats the case can you check the stick to make sure the front-most bushing which the spring rests on is white in color not black. We changed to the white ones around 18 months ago which are machined to a very tight tolerance on the handle. If in doubt drop me an email.

Yes the stick requires occasional lubrication as to most items with moving parts. It seems rather unfair to blame the stick for this, like saying a car has a design problem because it needs servicing. The original Sanwa sticks used silicone grease as well.
The stuff we use is this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Servisol-Silicone-grease-50g/dp/B000L97ZPI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337529759&sr=8-1 but pretty any paste-type silicone grease in a tube will work. Not the spray stuff though.

[AndyWarne]

On another note - does anyone know how to stop the ultrastik controlling the windows pointer?  I'm sure theres a setting somwhere but just cant find it.

You must have loaded a mouse mapping to it. Just download any standard map such as analog, 4-way etc.
This explains the centering issue you are having. This is not the usual way in which the stick is used, you really need to use it in analog or one of the other maps for Mame rather than as a mouse which was added for special applications. In fact this special use was added for a customer who builds "assistive technology" controllers.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

I didnt download any mouse setting to it im afraid.. I presumed it was a windows setting.  I dont think it explains it - the centering issue is a mechanical one.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

The front bushing is white.  The mouse control thing - it can only be windows, ultramap or gameex doing it.  I'm sure there is a setting somewhere but I just cant find it.

[AndyWarne]

The front bushing is white.  The mouse control thing - it can only be windows, ultramap or gameex doing it.  I'm sure there is a setting somewhere but I just cant find it.

If you have a standard map loaded, then some other software must be present which is interpreting game controller analog motion as mouse motion.
The mechanical centering issue would be cured by lubrication. I can send some silicone grease or we can do this here if you wish to return it. Drop me an email andy@ultimarc.com.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

I have lubricated with silicone grease and it still doesn't centre properly.  It isnt a problem for most games - its just the way the joystick is.    I like joysticks that ping back to dead centre but it isnt possible with this one - I'll give it a few weeks to see if I get used to it and then change it for something else if I dont.

[AndyWarne]

I have lubricated with silicone grease and it still doesn't centre properly.  It isnt a problem for most games - its just the way the joystick is.    I like joysticks that ping back to dead centre but it isnt possible with this one - I'll give it a few weeks to see if I get used to it and then change it for something else if I dont.

It should, so we would need to take a look and find out what the problem is, and replace if necessary.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

It probably just personal preference - Its just something i have noticed with this stick.  As you move the stick, just before you apply pressure and move the spring it feels like there is a small area around the centre that it sticks in.  Obviously if the joystick is off centre when I start a game that uses a wheel or dial its a bit annoying as the cursor/character goes flying across the screen.  I could disable the stick in every game but dont really want to have to do that. 

Its definitely worse since I replaced the stick with the longer shaft and harder spring.

[AndyWarne]

It probably just personal preference - Its just something i have noticed with this stick.  As you move the stick, just before you apply pressure and move the spring it feels like there is a small area around the centre that it sticks in.  Obviously if the joystick is off centre when I start a game that uses a wheel or dial its a bit annoying as the cursor/character goes flying across the screen.  I could disable the stick in every game but dont really want to have to do that. 

Its definitely worse since I replaced the stick with the longer shaft and harder spring.

But this should not happen because games which react to this type of input have a dead zone in Mame. The first thing to do is find out why its moving the mouse pointer as its possible that whatever software is doing that does not have a dead zone configured. In analog mode, unlike most analog game controllers the U360 does not have a dead zone by default because this is provided by Mame if configured correctly.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

I have no idea why it does it, I cant find any kind of setting in windows or gameex.

[gamepimp]

Do u have the U-360 plug-in enabled in GameEx? I do. And I noticed that when I exit the frontend, the joystick acts as a mouse in Windows. I think when u leave MAME, the plug-in might send the mouse map to the sticks. To test my theory, I went to UltraMap program and sent the "analog" map to the joysticks. They no longer moved the cursor in Windows. I went back to GameEx, launched the game Rastan in MAME (which uses an 8-way map, I believe), exited MAME, exited GameEx, and sure enough the joysticks moved the cursor in Windows again...

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Yes! Thats it - how can this be stopped without disabling the plugin?  Does mame map the joysticks perfectly well without the plugin?

[gamepimp]

Without the plug-in turned on, u would have to manually send the maps to the joysticks before playing each game. The plug-in allows GameEx to do that work for u, which is extremely convenient. I think the best thing to do might be to see if the author of the plug-in (Ben aka Headkaze) might be able to set the joysticks back to analog when exiting MAME (or GameEx, depending on where it's currently being changed). He's always on the GameEx forum. U could start a thread there to see what's possible...

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Cool, I shall do that - cheers for that, I couldn't work out what was causing it.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Problem solved - The Gamex plugin ini is set to analog by default - I've changed it to 8 way and the problem is gone. 

  Thanks again! 

[gamepimp]

Awesome! Never even thought about looking for those settings in an .ini file for the plug-in. I'll have to check that out tonight on my machine. Thk u for that little bit of info. 

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Thats also the place to assign ultrastik maps to roms