u360 centering issues?

[VanillaGorilla]

Anyone else have issues with their ultimarc u360 returning to center accurately? I must have an older one (from divemaster), as mine does not have the white bushing. I love aspects of the stick, but this one is concerning me; When I am in full analog mapping, even in the calibration app, you can plainly see (the dot does not align to center when the stick is released), and feel, that the stick stops just short of center, and then if slightly more pressure is applied, the travel completes its journey to center. Its like it gets 'stuck'.

This becomes a problem, and is especially apparent in Hyperspin. The stick almost always registers more than one 'step', and it gets difficult to land on your chosen emulator or game selection. You have to reverse the stick direction to stop it moving endlessly. My only solution at this point is to edit the analog map to place a + dead center in the center square. This helps a little, but the problem remains. This is frustrating, I spent a lot of money on this stick, and all the extras, like the wire harness, restrictors, springs, etc. I feel like I got nickel and dimed up to 90  bucks or so, and I am left with a temperamental piece of hardware that is a jack of all trades, and master of none. I have lubricated the ball joint with a synthetic lubricant, and this does not seem to have changed things. Is there a break in period on these things? I may have to pop the wico 8-way back in , and call it a day....  I sure hope not though, I had such high hopes.....

EDIT 2/7: PLAY A TON OF "INSERT GAME HERE" AND THE PROBLEM WILL DIMINISH MARKEDLY AFTER A BREAK IN PERIOD. SWEET!

[drventure]

Haven't had that problem, but I have noticed that the u360's seem to be prone to a little corrosion on the shafts, plus appearently there are machining "ridges" left on the white bushing inside (andy mentions this in a seperate thread). that might be causing your troubles.

When I next have mine apart, I was going to try a mototool on the bushing to polish the inside out lightly, see if that helps.

[VanillaGorilla]

BTW, I have searched older threads, and observed the led's on the PCB. Nothing is bent either, as far as I can tell. If I push down, then release to center, on centering, the LED pulses slowly. If I then just tap the stick ever so lightly, it sort of 'pops' about a millimeter to dead center, and the led pulses stop. The PCB is mounted/assembled correctly, I believe: it goes joystick base->circular restrictor->aluminum standoffs->pcb->black washers->white thumb nuts. I have placed the washers between the standoffs and the pcb as well, no change in behavior. It appears to me that the problem is with the centering spring and the cup/pivot area. Its mechanical.

[drventure]

From what I gathered from Andy's response on another thread, yeah, there's some ridged left on the white bushing inside that can cause the stick to "catch" in certain places, and make it not quite center without a little additional force.

I've never noticed it enough to cause extra menu clicks though (I use mala).

But it's still a bit annoying.

I believe you can adjust the deadspace with the utility that comes with them, but I haven't had to at this point.

[VanillaGorilla]

I must have an older one (from divemaster), as mine does not have the white bushing.

[AndyWarne]

I have heard of problems with Hyperspin before, and the issue really seems to be that when the stick is in pure analog mode, Hyperspin (unlike Mame) has no dead-zone when moving through the menus so even a tiny amount of movement off-center will cause scrolling.
One way around this is to use a digital map when in the menus but really the software should have a dead-zone.

[SammyWI]

I have noticed that my U360 may not return to exact center if I watch it in pure analog mode.  It seems worse with the heavy spring vs the stock one.  I prefer the stock spring overall.

For my use, the U360 is most always in a software map that has plenty of dead zone at the center so it's not an issue.  But, I don't run Hyperspin.

[VanillaGorilla]

In analog mode, the joystick does not center accurately, as demonstrated in the Ultimarc configuration application. The positioning dot floats around in a jittery fashion just below the fixed centering dot in the box, and if I tap the stick, it pops into perfect center. Is this by design? Is this typical centering behavior when calibrating an analog joystick? Sammy, I think you may be on to something with the heavier spring, which I also have installed....

I also experience run-on occasionally when playing Donkey Kong, and Pac Man, for instance. Its worse to the right and down than in other directions. So it isnt only in hyperspin.  Do I have something configured wrong via software? I have the analog map loaded. I ticked the 'keep joystick analog' checkbox. I identified the circular restrictor as having been installed on joystick1. I have done no calibration or configuration with the windows gaming devices control panel (Windows7 64bit)...I have joysticks enabled in mame.ini. A map is clearly applied when tested in Mame...


I understand that Hyperspin may be exposing an issue with the centering of the analog device, but that doesn't mean that the front end is causing the problem. I can plug in a $10.00 analog gamepad that I bought 7 years ago, and the problem goes away. Perhaps there is something wrong with this U360? Maybe this is something I just have to learn to live with?

Can anyone give me a clue as to how I would load/unload a map when entering and leaving the menus in hyperspin? I think I'm going to post this over at the hyperspin boards, and see if anyone else has a solution to this particular mix..

Could this just be a bad apple out of the bunch? I just wanna figure out whats going on, so I can go play some games!!!

[SammyWI]

I checked my U360 again in analog mode and the test dot doesn't always perfectly recenter, but it's pretty darn close with no jittering (this with the stock spring).  IRC, when I had the heavy spring in, the recentering was worse and I had some of the jittering you describe.  Also, when I was using the heavy spring I would occasionally (rarely) get a return to center problem while playing games even with a 4 or 8 way map loaded.  I also have the new plastic bushing installed which Andy sent me as a free upgrade (this may help).

Not sure why you have 'keep joystick analog' checked?  Is this something Hyperspin needs?  Mine is unchecked and I don't see a need for me to check it.  Maybe this is causing / adding to your problem? 

To me the recentering issue is something I can live with.  But I can minimize it since I like the stock spring and I don't use the stick in analog much.

[Bender]

I have LEDBlinky installed to load the U360 maps for Mame and Emu's, it also sets the front end map to 4 way so there is never an issue.
You can adjust the Deadzone in Mame, but I did through custom U360 maps, I found too much deadzone in Mame had an adverse effect on analog games

Everything works flawlessly on my system now
I did find it took a little while to "Fine Tune" the U360, because they are trying to do so many things, so be patient, when you get everything worked out and you can seamlessly switch between 4-way, 8-way, 4 way diagonal, analog, 49way,ect. you'll be psyched

[VanillaGorilla]

Thanks guys, I don't know what I'd do without this forum. I wasn't sure about that checkbox either, Sammy. I un-checked it and the problem still exists. Bender, I will look into ledblinky and try to get that configured to handle the mapping. I will also send a message to andy @ ultimarc and see if I can get an upgraded bushing as well.

[secret80sman]

I have EXACTLY the problems you are experiencing     and was about to reach out to Andy about it. I might try switching back to the stock spring and see if it is better. I wish there was an in between spring as the heavy spring has received complaints from my friends as too heavy. I had thought about cutting the spring down and seeing if I could get a best of both worlds scenario but am afraid to. You might want to try that and see if it works if you aren't worried about ruining your spring or have extras.

[Gray_Area]

Some sticks return exactly to center. But their design prohibits the travel an analog stick requires.

The analog sticks on game pads are dome-shaped below the 'handle', and retained by pressure from above. Those on my gamepad return to center and have almost no 'jiggle room'. The point of pivot on the U360 is an upside-down dome inside a hemispherical pit, which is much harder to keep stable.

[DirtyDachshunds]

I have EXACTLY the problems you are experiencing    and was about to reach out to Andy about it. I might try switching back to the stock spring and see if it is better. I wish there was an in between spring as the heavy spring has received complaints from my friends as too heavy. I had thought about cutting the spring down and seeing if I could get a best of both worlds scenario but am afraid to. You might want to try that and see if it works if you aren't worried about ruining your spring or have extras.

I'm using the stock spring, and I am still having the same problems described above.  Like Andy said, in MAME, with a deadzone, it works fine, but with Hyperspin and other emulators without a deadzone I have problems.

Edit: DOH, I didn't even think about adding a manual deadzone to the analog configuration in UltraMap.  Hopefully this can get ride of some of my frustration.

[VanillaGorilla]

Yeah, adding a dead zone to the analog map helps a little. I think this is something that Bad Boy Bill needs to work out with Hyperspin. I need to amend my original comments about this issue. After playing about 6-8 hours worth of 720, I no longer have the centering issue! YOU NEED TO BREAK IN THE F'ING JOYSTICK. HARD. I have the heavy spring in mine too, which is really necessary. The stick feels like it is going to fall apart with the stock spring. Way to limp. I dont know if the spring or the bushing is what needed to get some hours on it, but now I love this stick. It still kind of sucks a little/could be better in hyperspin, but I can live with it. You can try adjusting the analog sensitivity in hyperspin, which is on the controls->joystick tab.

[PsychoMikey]

I had quite a bit of problems on one of my u360's.  One was absolutly perfect and the other was always off center etc. Took them both apart several times, changed springs, the black caps that hold the springs down, manual maps etc. etc.

nothing seemed to work.

Until one day my dad stopped by and we finaly decided to take everything out one last time, cleaned everything with a blower (used for pc cleaning etc.) and then applyed some lube.

Never had any problems since then.

[fytr]

Hi,

In my case, my U360 (with updated bushing) first got "crunchy" with the hard spring. So I took it apart and put in the stock spring. Then it was silky smooth again for awhile. However, after extended use (my 5 year old spent many hours on the cabinet over the Xmas break) it has now begun "sticking" again, and not returning to center reliably, even in some Mame games.

My other U360 hasn't exhibited the same issues, but it gets far less use overall, so it might just be a matter of time.

So I'm not sure what to do. From Andy's comments sounds like the bushing might need "smoothing", and others report success with some form of lube.

Posted by: PsychoMikey
Until one day my dad stopped by and we finaly decided to take everything out one last time, cleaned everything with a blower (used for pc cleaning etc.) and then applyed some lube.

Never had any problems since then.

What kind of lube did you use?

Thx.
  Ken

[VanillaGorilla]

Harvey's Plumbers Faucet and Valve Grease - comes in a tube, costs a couple bucks, get it at home depot...I have used it and it works very well. Dont think you need to buy the kind that costs like $30...

[Gray_Area]

What kind of lube did you use?

Um, that's what she said.

[fytr]

Great, I'll pick some up and give it a try this weekend.

At the risk of crossing a line...  where did you apply the lube, specifically? Just the bottom of the round part of the shaft? Or somewhere else?

 

Ken

[secret80sman]

I used a red colored lube used for car engines and used a very small amount applied to both the rounded bottom of the stick shaft (God, this sounds so phallic!!!) and also to the rounded plastic part where it sits. Is this what is considered the bushing? Mine is black and has given me problems although now with the lube it seems better. I also cut the stiff spring down instead of going back to the stock spring and got a slightly stiffer feel but not much. I sure wish there was a medium stiffness spring, Andy could probably sell a ton of those as I think it would get the joystick in the Happ competition joystick area which is a happy medium for most people.

I will mess with the joystick sensitivity in Hyperspin and see if that helps the false triggering.

[fytr]

Alright, I acquired some plumber's valve lube, took my U360 apart, applied the grease lightly to the rounded metal part on the shaft, and also a bit on the shaft below that section where the bushing sits.

I am quite certain that the friction is coming from the bushing and not the round socket. I also noticed that I had a thin metal washer between the bushing and the rounded part. Not sure if that should be there or not, so I left it off when I put it back together.

The stick works perfectly now and feels better than it ever has. Now the test will be how it holds up after extended use.

I was a little concerned that the lube might drip down onto the circuit board over time, but I don't think it should.

Thx. for the tip!   

Ken

[AndyWarne]

Alright, I acquired some plumber's valve lube, took my U360 apart, applied the grease lightly to the rounded metal part on the shaft, and also a bit on the shaft below that section where the bushing sits.

I am quite certain that the friction is coming from the bushing and not the round socket. I also noticed that I had a thin metal washer between the bushing and the rounded part. Not sure if that should be there or not, so I left it off when I put it back together.

The stick works perfectly now and feels better than it ever has. Now the test will be how it holds up after extended use.

I was a little concerned that the lube might drip down onto the circuit board over time, but I don't think it should.

Thx. for the tip!   

Ken

The thin metal washer is deleted on current production. This was present on the original Sanwa-based design but causes problems because the washer rubs on the shaft as the bushing moves on the shaft. The correct lubricant is silicone grease. Do not use oil-based grease as it will degrade the plastic eventually. We have now reverted to using silicone grease in production rather than leaving without any lubrication.

[secret80sman]

Andy,
Would you recommend removing the washer then? Mine is not one of the newer ones, it's probably six months old, black bushing.

Also, through extensive testing with my U360 which has a slightly cut down STIFF spring, (not the light tension spring that comes with the joystick) I was able to get fairly error free performance in HyperSpin with a joystick threshold setting of 85 which is more than twice the default setting so go into HyperHQ, select controls and adjust accordingly there. Since each joystick probably performs slightly differently I would suggest using this number as a starting point and tweaking from there. This feature compensates for the lack of a dead zone feature or is essentially an adjustable dead zone feature for anyone who is interested.

[AndyWarne]

Andy,
Would you recommend removing the washer then? Mine is not one of the newer ones, it's probably six months old, black bushing.

It depends on which version it is. If it is marked Sanwa on the dust washer you can remove the metal washer. If its not, but has a black bushing on the front end of the spring, email me for updated white bushing replacement which has two improvements: Tighter tolerance of the hole for the handle and a flat surface where the washer currently is.