Building basics?

[walterg74]

Plans:  jakobud.com

Back in like '04 or something the BYOAC'rs started consolidating cab plans and Jakobud pretty much saved the project, the day, and large parts of the hobby by researching, documenting, drawing, standardizing, and hosting.  If there was a patron saint of cab plans his avatar would be a big pink cobra.   

Hmm... I think I wasn't very clear in the sense that when I said "classic" I just meant the style and not to copy any particular game cabinet, but in any case yes, his site has a lot of plans of different games... i guess I just should stop whining and being a girl and pick one already... (unless it's that procrastinator in me with this model choosing being just one more delay in beginning )

[Le Chuck]

Hmm... I think I wasn't very clear in the sense that when I said "classic" I just meant the style and not to copy any particular game cabinet

 

[walterg74]

Ok, so continuing my research (remember I'm a noob who only has a power drill for now...) I was looking at what tools to buy.

I know I would supposedly be looking at getting a:

- Circular saw
- Jigsaw
- Sander
- Router

My doubts start when reading all the posts from the experienced folks who not only built/build arcade cabinets, but also do more serious woodworking tasks, and that of course look for the best they can get, and I don't know if I should follow the example or take some perspective...

In general, I will be buying the tools first off to build my (and maybe a friend's) arcade cabinet. If I find I can more or less get the hang of it, and start to like it, (and that's a big "if", I would of course keep using the tools, albeit sporadically as I will not be turning into a full time professional woodworker.

So first, take that premise into account. Lastly, I also have to consider availability and pricing in my country. We don't have nearly the same variety as you guys in the US may have, nor the prices. For starters, the exchange rate is about 4.50 to 1 almost with the US dollar, and besides that prices are not the same then in the US but rather much more due to taxes, profit of importers, etc.. really complex, anyway, but just as a basic idea, just think about it as if the prices represent for me the same face value as it would for you (for example if I say a tool costs $200 in my currency, to me it represents the same as if it actually cost you $200 US dollars, even if in the actual conversion it's less than 50 bucks).

So with these two items in mind, here is what I have generally available for each tool category:

- Several "Skil" models
- Several Black & Decker models
- Very few Bosch models
- Very few DeWalt models
- Very few Makita models
- Several "brand X" / unknown brands


Would you then recommend I go for the best I can, the cheapest, a middle ground?

This is what I have, trying to make it short and on one line per brand:

Jigsaws:

B&D models KS405/KS455/KS505/KS650 for $174/$236/$300/$441
Skil models 4003/4170/4750 for $165/$185/$365
Dewalt models DW300/DW317 for $569/$779
Makita model 4328 for $705
Bosch GST90 for $919


Sanders:

Skil model 7232 for $212
B&D models QS800/QS1000 for $245/$319
Dewalt models D26441/D26451 for 4459/$683
Bosch models GSS140A/GEX125 for $550/$717

Regarding the sanders, only the Dewalt D26451 is random-orbital. It is the only brand name one sold. there are others, cheaper, but brands like "AEG" and "Versa".
So for a noob, is it important to have this type of sander, as to leave the less marks and not screw up the finishing?

Circular Saws:

Skil models 5401/5601/5801 for $455/$613/$639
B&D models CS1020/CS1020K/CS1030 for $480/$558/$570
Dewalt model DW352 for $700
Makita model 5740NB for $980
Bosch models GKS190/GKS65 for $849/$1070


Routers:

Skil model 1830 (with bit set) for $490
B&D RP250/RP250K(with bit set) for $492/$630
Makita models RP0900/MRP1000 for $860/$1230
Bosch GKF600 for $1120


Well that's about it... long post but it's hard to know what to buy with this selection and prices! I looked at buying from the US and having a friend bring them over, but we even have a different voltage here! (220V) so it's not a feasible option...

Ok, now I guess I wait for the knowledgeable folks that have the expertise and can tell me how stupid I'm being for not simply choosing "X" already!

Thanks!!

[kahlid74]

There are a lot of more experienced wood workers on this site than I am but what I typically do is if I find I need a tool, I wind up getting the Ryobi/B&D/Skil version of it at the cheap price as long as the reviews accumulate to more than 3 stars collectively.  If it gets under 3 stars I don't bother with it.  I then gauge how often I use the tool and how "hard" I am on the tool.  When I realize I use a tool a lot and I need accuracy and dependability I move to a Bosch or Makita.

Bosch and Makita are great stuff and I highly recommend them but you honestly need to understand how often you'll be using said tool and whether it makes sense fiscally to add that tool to your life.  Buying a $1000 dollar router to make a cabinet every 2-4 years is a waste IMO.  You could in those cases just rent said router for $40 bucks for one week every 2-4 years.

What I'm trying to get at is look at the reviews, if they are decent I'm all for the cheaper tools WITH THE MINDSET that if I use it a lot I ACCEPT the upgrade cost and that the money I spent on the cheaper tool is essentially "Throw away".

[walterg74]

Anyone else can chip in an opinion on the tools? (specially the sander question since I still haven't bought it).

I finally caved and bought the bosch circular saw and the jigsaw... Managed to get a little better price somewhere else for the jigsaw, and the circular saw at my "home depot" equivalent with their cc with a 15% discount. 

[Le Chuck]

Jigsaws: All too expensive.  Buy a $40 one and then buy good blades.  It goes up and down.  Use a fence and it can make straight cuts.

Sanders:  Buy a random orbital, don't worry about dust collection doodads, wear a mask and/or install a separate dust abatement system.  Cheap off brand oughta be fine.  I sand by hand and will use a grinding stone for angles.  My power sander lives in its plastic carry case and hasn't come out in 8 years.

Circular Saws:  Oh my holy cats, why are these so expensive?  They go round and round.  Buy a cheap one, buy good blades.  Use a fence to make straight cuts.

Routers:  Buy a palm rounter for like $90.  Buy good bits.  It just goes round and round.  You don't need an amazing plunging fullsize router for this hobsession.  Get intimate with the palm router and if you want to upgrade later you'll be happy you have the small one.  Everything I make I do with a palm router.

[darthpaul]

Unless you are going into woodworking as a profession, I would stay away from the higher price tools, stay with the middle ground.  
Don't forget the Porter Cable 690 router, one of the best routers you can buy and under $150.00 US, if you can find it.
Can I ask why you want a plunge Router, I have a Hitachi and have yet to take it out of the box and I've had it for over 4 years, I love my Porter Cable 690. Stay away from from the B&D and Skil Routers, they won't last.
As far as Sanders go, you want a random orbital sander, you don't have to worry about sanding marks with these when using fine sandpaper, I wouldn't get anything too expensive.
I have a Skil jigsaw right now and if I had to do it again, I would have bought something better.
I have a B&D circular saw that I have had for years, it's a little under powered but I did build a 20 x 20 ft deck with it, just get good blades.
You should also look at getting a Dremel Motor Tool or it's equivalent. I had one for years that I hardly ever used until I got involved with this hobby and now I would be lost without it.  

[walterg74]

Jigsaws: All too expensive.  Buy a $40 one and then buy good blades.  It goes up and down.  Use a fence and it can make straight cuts.

Sanders:  Buy a random orbital, don't worry about dust collection doodads, wear a mask and/or install a separate dust abatement system.  Cheap off brand oughta be fine.  I sand by hand and will use a grinding stone for angles.  My power sander lives in its plastic carry case and hasn't come out in 8 years.

Circular Saws:  Oh my holy cats, why are these so expensive?  They go round and round.  Buy a cheap one, buy good blades.  Use a fence to make straight cuts.

Routers:  Buy a palm rounter for like $90.  Buy good bits.  It just goes round and round.  You don't need an amazing plunging fullsize router for this hobsession.  Get intimate with the palm router and if you want to upgrade later you'll be happy you have the small one.  Everything I make I do with a palm router.

Heheh I love how everything just goes round and round! (just like the world huh?) 

[walterg74]

Unless you are going into woodworking as a profession, I would stay away from the higher price tools, stay with the middle ground. 
Don't forget the Porter Cable 690 router, one of the best routers you can buy and under $150.00 US, if you can find it.
Can I ask why you want a plunge Router, I have a Makita and have yet to take it out of the box and I've had it for over 4 years, I love my Porter Cable 690. Stay away from from the B&D and Skil Routers, they won't last.
As far as Sanders go, you want a random orbital sander, you don't have to worry about sanding marks with these when using fine sandpaper, I wouldn't get anything too expensive.
I have a Skil jigsaw right now and if I had to do it again, I would have bought something better.
I have a B&D circular saw that I have had for years, it's a little under powered but I did build a 20 x 20 ft deck with it, just get good blades.
You should also look at getting a Dremel Motor Tool or it's equivalent. I had one for years that I hardly ever used until I got involved with this hobby and now I would be lost without it. 

Thanks for the feedback!

S if you want a better jigsaw (in retrospect) I guess maybe that was a good choiceon getting the better one..

Regarding the router, I don't want a plunge router for any specific reason other than I thought that's what everyone uses for this. Off the top of my head, I need to do the t-mold slot, and maybe flush cut matching pieces together (like the side panels). Would you recommend something else? I don't think we have palm routers here (or if there are, probably just expensive brands). I can find a dremel mini, but is that good enough for big pieces like these??? 
I gues it all boils down to the fact that even though everyone is telling me to just "get a cheap one", what I listed above is pretty much the options I have
Regarding the sander, sadly the random orbitals are all expensive. Then only true random orbitals I can get are the dewalt 26451 and the bosch gex-125, both for roughly 160 us dollars... Would that be a needed one due to the finishing consoderations? I feel that someone experienced wouldmhave no trouble fixing any finishing even by hand, but being anoob you need all the help yo can get from the tool?

[walterg74]

Darthpaul, ok, just looked some, and I think another reason for the plunge route is that palm routers here are just as expensive (in some cases more!).

Are you talking about something like this?

Skil: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423995413-fresadora-router-tupi-manual-skil-mod-1800-_JM

Bosch: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-421898395-fresadora-router-rebajadora-gkf-600-bosch-_JM

Makita: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-146799915-fresadora-makita-tupia-3709-6mm-14-540w-3000rpm-_JM

As you can see, not exactly cheap anyway. Are they more practical for this though?

Regarding the dremel tool, do you mean something like this?

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM

[Le Chuck]

This:  http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-R2401-Laminate-Trim-Router/dp/B001W0ZI7C

It costs 99 dollars and a ---smurfette--- aint one. 

[walterg74]

This:  http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-R2401-Laminate-Trim-Router/dp/B001W0ZI7C

It costs 99 dollars and a ---smurfette--- aint one.  

Thanks, but you forgot that as I posted, I don't live in the states (gotta remember to keep the posts short as nobody reads log ones!  )

I'm actually kn Argentina, south america, hence the links.

Even if I could bring those over with a friend, the voltage here is different so I coud not use them.

Edit: lechuck, if that is a brand "x" simple palm router, I guess I could buy my local equivalent the skil frm my last post? (at xchange rate it's about 92 dollars).

[yaksplat]

Jigsaws: All too expensive.  Buy a $40 one and then buy good blades.  It goes up and down.  Use a fence and it can make straight cuts.

Sanders:  Buy a random orbital, don't worry about dust collection doodads, wear a mask and/or install a separate dust abatement system.  Cheap off brand oughta be fine.  I sand by hand and will use a grinding stone for angles.  My power sander lives in its plastic carry case and hasn't come out in 8 years.

Circular Saws:  Oh my holy cats, why are these so expensive?  They go round and round.  Buy a cheap one, buy good blades.  Use a fence to make straight cuts.

Routers:  Buy a palm rounter for like $90.  Buy good bits.  It just goes round and round.  You don't need an amazing plunging fullsize router for this hobsession.  Get intimate with the palm router and if you want to upgrade later you'll be happy you have the small one.  Everything I make I do with a palm router.

I must yell boooooooooo at you. 

Here's the main differences between expensive and cheap tools. 

• Duration of usage.  Higher priced models can run for a longer duration without overheating and melting in some cases.  If you try drilling 1" holes through joists with a ryobi, it may die.  Do it with a Bosch and you'll be okay.
• Precision.  I can't emphasize this one enough.  Just because something is reciprocating or spinnign just like everthing else doesn't mean it's doing it the same.   The high end stuff will make sure that the tool always cuts in the same path.  No wobble in the blade, no wandering, just perfect repeatability.
• Quality of parts.  Cheap tools are cheap for a reason, they contain cheap parts.  These parts will wear much faster than their counterparts, resulting in one of the two above conditions.
• Battery life may come into play as well, but i don't have a lot of experience outside of Bosch

Some companies will build machines and then test the tolerances of the machine when finished.  If the tolerances are extremely tight, it sells under brand A, and then depending how much slop there is, it may then be sold under brand name B, C or D.  Exact same machine, different tolerances, different name on the sticker.

So, at the end of the day, if you don't plan on using your tools for much more than a project every couple years, go cheap.  If you're like me and have no idea what tool you'll use next and use them on an almost daily basis, go high end and buy the tool once for life.

/rant

[Le Chuck]

Yak, I'm hip to what you're layin' down.  If the OP owns none of these tools and is coming here for tool tips I don't think he's setting himself up for success by buying life long pieces when he is clearly a part time hobbyist and not a finish carpenter.  You're right, but you also have to take into account what you're building and can you correct for variance in your cuts.  Arcade building, yes you can.  Even most house construction you won't have a problem.  You can get a level floor and true'd walls with the cheap tools, but it is admittedly faster and easier with the pricey ones.  If I'm tiling I go rent a giant bastard of a tile saw because I want my lines to look like the aliens that built the pyramids made them and I hate wavy grout lines.  Anything less than the most professional (read expensive) setup and I find that I am always going to go behind the cut with a file, chisel, and sand paper anyway so why spend thousands in tools to build projects that are barely worth the price of the saw? 

[yaksplat]

why spend thousands in tools to build projects that are barely worth the price of the saw? 

Are you saying that mini starwars isn't worth thousands?

[walterg74]

Yak, I'm hip to what you're layin' down.  If the OP owns none of these tools and is coming here for tool tips I don't think he's setting himself up for success by buying life long pieces when he is clearly a part time hobbyist and not a finish carpenter.  You're right, but you also have to take into account what you're building and can you correct for variance in your cuts.  Arcade building, yes you can.  Even most house construction you won't have a problem.  You can get a level floor and true'd walls with the cheap tools, but it is admittedly faster and easier with the pricey ones.  If I'm tiling I go rent a giant bastard of a tile saw because I want my lines to look like the aliens that built the pyramids made them and I hate wavy grout lines.  Anything less than the most professional (read expensive) setup and I find that I am always going to go behind the cut with a file, chisel, and sand paper anyway so why spend thousands in tools to build projects that are barely worth the price of the saw? 

Well yes and no...

Remember everything is proportional here regarding prices, meaning a finished standard cab runs you about 5k. So I'm basically spending less than that with the added advantage of being able to build more in the future for a fraction of the cost.

The confusing part is the mixed opinions, between getting cheap since you'll use it occasionally and get quality since you still want a good result finish.

So cant do anything about what I already bought, an the sander i can only get brand names here for random orbital, but for the router, would you then recommend like i asked you in my last post that I get that skil palm one? Or since the price is the same should I get the plunge one? (which also comes with 6 bits).
Which is better/more practical?

[Woodshop Flunky]

So, at the end of the day, if you don't plan on using your tools for much more than a project every couple years, go cheap.

+1  This is how I started out.  I bought a cheap tablesaw ($100) because I compared the price of tools to the "single" project I was going to use them on.

In my case, however, once I had it, I found other projects cropping up like weeds, and I quickly discovered I needed better tools.  Now I have furniture all around the house that would have cost me way more than what I've spent on tools.

There's no way to know ahead of time how your interests might develop, so I still say going cheap at first is not such a bad idea. IMHO   

[walterg74]

So, at the end of the day, if you don't plan on using your tools for much more than a project every couple years, go cheap.

+1  This is how I started out.  I bought a cheap tablesaw ($100) because I compared the price of tools to the "single" project I was going to use them on.

In my case, however, once I had it, I found other projects cropping up like weeds, and I quickly discovered I needed better tools.  Now I have furniture all around the house that would have cost me way more than what I've spent on tools.

There's no way to know ahead of time how your interests might develop, so I still say going cheap at first is not such a bad idea. IMHO   

Ok, good advice. And regarding plunge vs palm?? (for arcade cabinet building)

[Woodshop Flunky]

Ok, good advice. And regarding plunge vs palm?? (for arcade cabinet building)

Just personal, but I'm very uncomfortable with plundge routers.  I use mine... but I don't like it.

For arcades... I don't know where a plunge router would give you any real advantage.  But, I've only built one arcade.

[EvilNuff]

Get the plunge router, if you don't like plunging then just lock it in the down position and you don't have to worry about it.  However, you still have the ability to plunge it when/if you need to.

[walterg74]

Ok, so based on your feedback, I guess I'll go with the cheaper router, and see where it takes me if I continue with this great hobby.

Now before I rush out to buy that and the sander, and regarding this last one...

Do I really *need* the randomorbital?  Asking because for the price of the random orbital (of which I can only get Bosch or DeWalt at about the same price) I can buy a "normal" orbital one (not random) and the router.
If you guys think the ROS is a must, then I guess I'll just shell out and get it, but if not, I'll put that in my list of "cheap" as per your recommendations.

[Le Chuck]

Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.

[walterg74]

Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.

Well easy for you,  you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? 

[kahlid74]

Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.

Well easy for you,  you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? 

My experience with an electric sander (belt/Orbital/Mouse) is that the chance to mess up is higher because they sand at a higher rate.  Hand sanding gives you the most control.

[wp34]

Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.

Well easy for you,  you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? 

My experience with an electric sander (belt/Orbital/Mouse) is that the chance to mess up is higher because they sand at a higher rate.  Hand sanding gives you the most control.

+1 - especially if you are inexperienced.  It took me a while to get the hang of my orbital.  I still try and avoid the belt sander if at all possible.  If you are looking to save some money start with hand sanding.

[walterg74]

Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.

Well easy for you,  you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? 

My experience with an electric sander (belt/Orbital/Mouse) is that the chance to mess up is higher because they sand at a higher rate.  Hand sanding gives you the most control.

+1 - especially if you are inexperienced.  It took me a while to get the hang of my orbital.  I still try and avoid the belt sander if at all possible.  If you are looking to save some money start with hand sanding.

Hmm.. not quite convinced but I guess I can give it a shot! Time to look around for a nice sanding tutorial

What grits would you recommend for MDF for the whole pfocess of sanding, priming, sanding ,painting? (plus the in-between-coats sanding)

[yaksplat]

220 should do it for mdf.  It's smoothe to begin with.  Otherwise 100 -> 220.  350 if you want to get carried away.

[Le Chuck]

Buy sandpaper and a block of wood. Screw the sander.

Well easy for you,  you do this stuff, but do you honestly think I, being a guy who's never sanded wood before, can do that *and* have it come out decently and not a scratched up piece of crap? 

My experience with an electric sander (belt/Orbital/Mouse) is that the chance to mess up is higher because they sand at a higher rate.  Hand sanding gives you the most control.

+1 - especially if you are inexperienced.  It took me a while to get the hang of my orbital.  I still try and avoid the belt sander if at all possible.  If you are looking to save some money start with hand sanding.

Hmm.. not quite convinced but I guess I can give it a shot! Time to look around for a nice sanding tutorial

What grits would you recommend for MDF for the whole pfocess of sanding, priming, sanding ,painting? (plus the in-between-coats sanding)

Think about it like this:  When hand sanding the only interface between you and the surface is the paper or a block, both of which transmit a lot of information about surface texture back to you.  A power sander takes a long time to learn now the surface is feeling underneath it due to all the vibration.  Almost all finish sanding is done by hand to the get the most ideal surface, most sanders just get you to the hand finish point faster.  Low grits 60-220 are good for material removal and smoothing.  300 is great for knocking the tooth off of primer coats.  400-1200 is good for between coats depending on how glassy you want your surface.  Start with dry sanding then experiment with wet sanding once you're comfortable.  In other words, as a guy who has never done this stuff I'd put my money on crap if you were putting your faith in tools rather than in your sense of touch.  You'll know when it's getting there, fingers don't lie.  

[walterg74]

Ok, so I swung by the hardware store on my way back from work, and damn.. why can't we ue standards/names the world round? 

Here they had 4 types of sandpaper whose "names"/types were (bear with me on google translate for some..):

- Ruby (came in 40/60/100/150/220)
- "Water" (came in 60/80/100/120/150/180/220/240/280/320/360/400/500/600)
- "no paste" (which I assume was short for it doesn't turn into goo?  ) (came in 80/100/120/150/180/220/240/280/360/400)
- "emery cloth"? (came in 40/50/80/120)

The only one I remember using helping out my dad when I was little was the "water" one, which had to be soaked in water and used like that (we used it to remove license numbers on taxi cab doors when the numbering changed and they had to re-paint them).

Attaching a couple of pics of them as well as the "use chart" they had to see if you recognize their equivalent so I know which to use.

I did pick up just for fun some ruby ones to test on some scrap (got 60/100/150/200)

[walterg74]

Looking at some plans, where it-s not explained in full detail, I'm a bit confused as to the order of assembly...

what's the best way to assemble the part to get the sturdiest/strongest result?

Is the bottom panel supposed to be on the bottom of ALL? (meaning the side panels and the back panel "rest" on it? Or should the sides be the support and the bottom panel not flush with them at the flor plane) and also "inside" the back panel? 

[darthpaul]

Regarding the dremel tool, do you mean something like this?

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM

That's it, since everything is so expensive, it's better to put your money towards the Router and Saws first. The Dremel is a nice tool to have but not essential.

[walterg74]

Regarding the dremel tool, do you mean something like this?

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-423694469-minitorno-dremel-300-10-accesorios-garantia-bosch-_JM

That's it, since everything is so expensive, it's better to put your money towards the Router and Saws first. The Dremel is a nice tool to have but not essential.

Yeah, I got the jigsaw and circular saw. Guess it's up to decide between the palm router or the plunge one, and keep it cheap like the other guys recommended...

I went to buy wood today and decided as my first time, I'm gonna start small and do a verticade clone (or weecade, but more likely verticade).

Only have a few misc supplies to pickup tomorrow (clamps, ruler, etc) and the it's starting time!

If everything foes well, I'll put it upmthere as a project announcement so y'all can laugh a bit

[GIZMOGAMES]

ok i have to say im going to approach this with humour lol

breakdown how i see it on tools

BLACK AND DECKER = great if you lived in the 80's it was the best name since sliced bread lol now adays tho i take a few letters out and thats how they are when you continually have to have it fixed replaced yup you do what??
 you take it BACK an DECKER lol
RYOBI = little better but not by much perfect for occasional use depending on task but at the end when it breaks youll say with chinese voice RY OBI1 RY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
makita/ says it all really MAKE IT A works like a charm good tools not great but good
BOSCH NEED i say anything at all about these BOSCH see its cut BOSCH see its sanded Typical tools for tradesmen higher price better tool
Dewalt well can you say BRIDGING loan lol if you can afford these then your not going to worry about a few $$$ here and there regarding wood and such 
Plunge vs STATIC = good point i guess here the difference is choice i got given a backandecker sorry lol black and decker plunge router its ok for an old thing only prob the depth gage is minxed :S so i have to leave it locked static so i bought a router table and a wolf 1200 3 yrs guarantee and the pair were i think 65 pounds so about $100 in a way its always down to user preference and everyones different


tools you havent mentioned but are ESSENTIALS
T-SQUARE yup get a decent one i bought a roofers T-square its a lot bigger and will aid me for bigger projects not much of a cost flea-bay has loads just choose click pay and wait waiting means you can read more lol
Clamps yup youll want clamps youll want as many clamps as you have fingers and toes theres no such thing as TOO MANY CLAMPS take mountains jukebox for example " http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=79817.0
Need i sam more there i so need to contact him it scares me lol
Pencil loads of paper and cardboard heck cheap stores have the above in abundance im sure theres a few near you use supermarkets also for cardboard get loads of tape too
PARACETAMOL/annadin aka headache pills lol cos after hours and hours of bangin yr head of brickwalls trying to fathom stuff out your gonna need em lmao
HATE TO PLUG THIS BUT THIS REALLY IS ESSENTIAL OR AT LEAST EDUCATIONAL !!!!!!!
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=15717.0

AND ILL LEAVE IT AT THAT  hope you had a giggle or two anyhow and things go as well as they will remember theres NO such thing as a stupid quistion its just a quistion the STUPID gets put in if your TOO AFRAID TO ASK IT !!!!
This place is AMAZING like that dont feel intimidated to ask and if i didnt say it before ill say it now WELCOME your life is about to CHANGE better or worse who knows but its changing arcade building is adictive lol but then again so are most things now adays N-JOY

[walterg74]

Lol.. Thanks!

Yeh, gotta see those misc supplies ( heading out in a few mins).

So for black and decker I guess you could just leaveout all letters and keep only the first of each word = BAD ?
Funny how the "home depots" equivalent here will say " yeah it's a good tool"...

Regarding dewalt, here they are cheaper than Bosch ( depending on the tools a little or a lot).

Now where is my jar of aspirin....

[lcmgadgets]

This has been 1 of the best threads I've ever followed from beginning to present! For the little that my (a schmuck who's been dreaming of building for years but still has very little to show for it) opinion is worth, I'd say, walterg74, that you're in the best hands! You've asked all the questions I've ever imagined & then some. I'm studying what I've read here like crazy! Good luck, w', & keep us posted!

[DNA Dan]

Not to rain on your parade, but if you've never sanded wood before, and tools are super expensive in your country, have you ever considered taking some plans to a carpenter or wood shop and have them build you a cabinet? Might be cheaper and less frustrating in the long run. I can certainly understand the pride one feels when saying "I built that myself" but I also can appreciate the guy who knows when to pull into a gas station and ask for directions. You might also end up with a better final product if you have someone build the cabinet, then you do all the controls, PC, etc.

[walterg74]

This has been 1 of the best threads I've ever followed from beginning to present! For the little that my (a schmuck who's been dreaming of building for years but still has very little to show for it) opinion is worth, I'd say, walterg74, that you're in the best hands! You've asked all the questions I've ever imagined & then some. I'm studying what I've read here like crazy! Good luck, w', & keep us posted!

Thanks for the encouragement!

Yeah, I like to ask a lot of questions now... Prefer it to being sorry later!

Luckily there's enough experienced folks around here that when some get tired of answering my stupid questions, others pop up and answer the next batch

Finally got everything I need last night, so since today sadly it's raining, I'm hoping to start next weekend (which is a long weekend for me also, so woo-hoo!).

L8r!  

[walterg74]

Not to rain on your parade, but if you've never sanded wood before, and tools are super expensive in your country, have you ever considered taking some plans to a carpenter or wood shop and have them build you a cabinet? Might be cheaper and less frustrating in the long run. I can certainly understand the pride one feels when saying "I built that myself" but I also can appreciate the guy who knows when to pull into a gas station and ask for directions. You might also end up with a better final product if you have someone build the cabinet, then you do all the controls, PC, etc.

Hey, no problem! One has to listen to all opinions right? It is possible to not be following the right approach after all.

I did consider that, but I don't think it will be cheaper after all their time is money as well and it's not just the tools that are expensive but everything, so I might as well invest in the tools (while expensive it's not gonna kill me), and learn something.

I'm familiar with the analogy, but one can ask for directions only after recognizing and accepting that you can't get there on your own, and not because of pride but because of limitations. If I don't try (and really try, not just a half assed effort and quit), I'll never know if I really can do it or not. And in order to make a good effort and not a half assed one,you gotta get educated/informed and ask a lot of questions. I also think this is true and good not only for me but for others in the same boat as well (not for nothing we're now reaching the 3 pages without building anything yet! ).

See what I found is that while saint's book is awesome and rightfully so, I found it to be basically two main topics: one that explains what everything is ( controls, cabinets, types of games, think about what is best for you, etc) which I already know for having played arcades and videogames in general for over 30 years.... And then the second part is basically a step by step guide for building one particular mame cabinet... That is all nice and perfect, and while granted there are general tips here and there, it basically just guides you through building the UAII.

So what if I don't want to build that? What if I want my own? What if I want to introduce modifications? How do I know what type of support I need for my particular monitor? Etc... I find there are very little generalities that may be obvious to some of the fine woodworkers here, but not to a noob like myself, and I'm doing the best to find these answers between these forums and the rest of the content out there on the web. Things like: ok my wood is different, so besides a "make adjustments" how do I know what screws I need (length, width, head size...)? How should I fit these pieces together? If I choose to do this part out of a different material, does the stuff I need to hook it up to the rest of the cabinet change? And so forth, in a word, something general.

So anyway, just a little rant on what I'm trying to recollect to be able to not just build the UAII cabinet, but whichever one I want to make or create.

Lastly, and going back to your thought on maybe hiring someone if it's just too difficult, I can only leave you with a few lines I love of my favourite speech of all time so far

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

[DNA Dan]

I hear what you're saying. If the cost is really high to pay someone, you can at least get a bunch of tools and try doing it yourself. The only drawback to this is are you going to be happy with what you can produce vs. a carpenter? I guess you won't know until you try. However some of the questions you raise about screw lengths, or design, etc. people go to school for that knowledge, or obtain it from building LOTS of different things. This is something you can't really teach, but rather is learned on the job as things are built. You learn to improvise. The art of improvisation with different materials and designs is something learned from building things.

I guess what I am trying to say is you need to be realistic about your skills and what you expect to get out of your build. Manage your expectations in perspective with your skills. It's easy to look at some of the super nice cabs on this site and have that as an image of what you want, when your skills may not match the ability of the person who built it. As long as you manage your expectations you won't be surprised or disappointed when you're finished.

Now are you going to use those tools or not? What materials are you using?

[walterg74]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I don't share it (or at least not 100%). With that criteria, people would just dedicate themselves to what they studied, and they would have no hobbies or other interests...
I already went to school, and dedicated to electronics and systems engineering, so you canimagine I'not gonna go back to school (literally) to learn woodworking. Now that's not to say I can't learn on my own (besides the fact that I like to learn a lot of things on my own and be self-taught). Will that mean I'll be ale to turn into the world's best woodworker? Probably not, but then again that's not my goal. Can I learn the necessary things I need to be able to make a decent arcade cabinet? That seems a little more realistic..
Now sure, being a noob and having so many questions means I'm probably gonna ruin a lot of pieces of wood (hopefully scrap! ) and maybe it also means that to stick the first 2 pieces of wood together and be cinfident abut it I cold take 2 weeks but then again I prefer that approach and that then for my second cabinet I'll be able to do it in 15 minutes
I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens. Worst case scenario, tools can be resold

So anyway, gong back to your question, I have:

- 1/4 plaque of 12mm MDF
- 1/4 plaque of 15mm MDF (verticade called for 16mm but I don't have that width here)

Plaque sizes here for MDF are different, measuring 1,83m x 2,60m (a fair amont larger), so my 1/4 plaques measure 0.65m x 1.83, in one big strip for the 12mm one and I had the other one cut in two 0.65m x 0.65m squares plus he remaining 0.53 x 0.65 just cause I coudld, it was free of charge and the squares fit perfectly for drawing the side on a handy sized square slightly larger than the cabinet's size.

I also got a big (2.44m) strip of 1"x1" wood to make the inside mouldings.

Besides that I got glue, screws type 8 diam, 32mm long, which I gladly found would meet the "2/3 rule" if I countersink them 5mm -proportional to the 1/4" ppl countersink in 3/4" wood), wood putty, misc stuff (rulers, pencils, erasers, compass for circle molds, etc), plenty of clamps, sandpaper (might have to get finer grits as the highest I have as of today is 220), and of course safety elements for eyes, ears and hands

As far as tools, like I have been commenting I now have a drill, circular saw, jigsaw, router, screwdrivers, etc, and then it's necessary accesories (bits, blades, etc.).

A couple of still neded things are:

- slot cutting bit: can you believe there isn't ONE f*ing store that sells them here atm?
- countersink bits: same as the above.. Un-frikkin-believable... Only difference is for this one, since it's needed early on, I'm gonna have to improvise with one of several methods to get the desired effect.

In any case, I need to travel for work soon (next month) so I'll be buying the needed bits (and whatever else I may think I need and can't remember now) from the US and a buddy of mine will take them for me to where we will meet (we have to go to a project in Switzerland).

So that's about it for now, stay tuned for more hopefully soon