Cabinet speaker questions (what to do about volume)

[mamefreak2]

Hey folks,

I've had a cabinet for years but it's been on the junky side. I've recently decided to finally finish it properly. It is an old Street Fighter cab and I have the control panel, wiring, front end and marquee ready to go. I'm going to have a friend help me with the monitor and bezel so I should be good to go.

The one thing I am struggling with a little bit though is the speakers. I have a great PC sound system from Cambridge Soundworks. It's a 2.1 system and it should be fine. The speakers are small enough that they should fit above the monitor behind the marquee. However, I'm not sure how to control the volume on this.

I'd really like to get a volume knob for it and I'd like to hear people's opinions. The way the speakers are now there is a volume dial that kind of hangs from the wire that leads back to the amp. I don't want this thing hanging off the side of the cab so I'd like to hear what people think. I want this unit to double as a jukebox so sound is important to me.

Here are some of the options I'm considering.

1. My friend has suggested using arcade  speakers with a pot? I guess it's a potentiemeter? And has said that this would be wired into the computer? Can somebody explain how this works? Is there a volume knob I can connect to this?  Also, how good would the sound be on this?

2. I go with the PC speakers (they are great and I'm happy with the sound capability) and find some way of hacking the wires into a volume knob? Anyone know how to do this?

3. I try something like a Griffin Powermate. If I do this I have to rip it apart to mount it correct?

Please, I am absolutely useless when it comes to this stuff and would love to hear from some folks who know what they are talking about. Thanks in advance for the help!  

[Grimoz]

One option is to get a set of Stereo PC speakers that come with a volume controlled subwoofer and 2 speakers and stick the sub in the bottom of the cab and control the volume from that, I did that on my mame machine and it works fine. I hacked the speakers and wired them up to original arcade speakers I already had installed and its great, has a very authentic sound.

[mamefreak2]

One option is to get a set of Stereo PC speakers that come with a volume controlled subwoofer and 2 speakers and stick the sub in the bottom of the cab and control the volume from that, I did that on my mame machine and it works fine. I hacked the speakers and wired them up to original arcade speakers I already had installed and its great, has a very authentic sound.

Sorry, I don't follow you here, like I said I don't know any of this stuff. You say you have two PC speakers and two arcade speakers?

 Do you have two arcade speakers on the top and then two PC speakers somewhere else? How do you have the volume control? Is it inside the cabinet?

[Cynicaster]

One thing you should really figure out is whether you want it to sound “good” or you want it to sound authentic.  I put the first descriptor in quotes because it’s obviously subjective, but what I’m saying is I think a half decent set of modern powered 2.1 PC speakers (i.e., L/R with subwoofer) is typically going to provide a higher-fidelity, fuller sound than the speakers built into most classic cabinets. 

The thrust sound in Asteroids and the sound of Qix whipping about the screen both produce a hearty rumble from my cabinet’s subwoofer, which I happen to enjoy, despite the fact that I know the original hardware did not have a subwoofer and sounded quite different.

Another consideration for me is that I enjoy playing tunes on my cabinet; both as a standalone jukebox when friends are over playing darts or whatever, or as background music while I’m actually playing MAME.  Having a mix of my tunes and the game sounds coming out of the speakers right in front of my face while playing a fun game is a really cool, immersive, and relaxing experience.  Of course, this works better when you have a game without its own constantly-playing background music, but I digress.  What I’m getting at is, my desire to play music on my cabinet made the 2.1 PC speaker system an obvious choice due to the totally decent sound for both games and music, and dead simple integration into my project (i.e., no need to shield the speakers, no need to buy/install an amplifier, etc.).

As for volume control, I’ve seen this question numerous times in my fairly short membership here.  You’re going to get a bunch of different answers, all potentially valid depending on your specific situation, but my stock answer is don’t overthink it.  My speaker system has the volume knob built into the left speaker, so I simply made removable speaker grilles (they attach with magnets).  If I want to change the volume, I just remove the grille, turn the volume dial on the left speaker, and replace the grille.  It takes 5 seconds to do and there’s no need for a volume dial cluttering up the look.  I find that I rarely ever change the volume anyway—it’s largely been set-it-and-forget-it.  After several months of heavy use for my cabinet, I’m very glad I didn’t waste a bunch of time trying to wire up some fancy external knob because, for me, it’s just not used enough to be worth it.   

[drventure]

Cynicaster's response is spot on.

Doesn't the cambridge system have a volume knob on it somewhere.

Worst case, you dismantle that element, desolder the pot that the knob is connected to, and solder in a long pair of wires so you can relocate the pot (and the knob) somewhere else on the cab.

You'll ruin the speaker set for use in anything else, but it'd work just fine.

The Griffin powermate is another great alternative, and it's REALLY easy to implement, just a tad more $$$

And finally, if you want to get hackish about it, you might consider what I'm doing for a jukebox build

I picked up some old USB wheel mice for 1$ a pop, dismantled them and am connecting a rod directly to the wheel itself, and a knob connected to that rod.

Soooo, you turn the knob, the wheel turns and registers mouse wheel rotation.

Then it's just a matter of a little AutoHotKey script magic to take the wheel rotation input from that specific mouse and raise or lower volume, move next prev track, etc.

[Peja]

I'd really like to get a volume knob for it and I'd like to hear people's opinions. The way the speakers are now there is a volume dial that kind of hangs from the wire that leads back to the amp. I don't want this thing hanging off the side of the cab so I'd like to hear what people think. I want this unit to double as a jukebox so sound is important to me.

What I would/will probably end up doing is similar to your needs.  My speaker setup also has a volume, dongle (I think that is what you were saying) that I will probably just extend or if it is long enough, run it out the back of the machine and either attach it to the back out of site, or on top of the cab out of site.  Most people won't see it and it is easy to access if I need to adjust volumes for anything.  Quick, simple, and shouldn't cost you any money.

Peja

[eds1275]

What I would do is make an inline volume knob that is on the cab. Plug one end to your speakers, and the other to the computer. This way you could set the max inside the cab at the speaker's volume control, and then there would be no danger of for instance a toddler turning it up... to 11. There's only 3 wires and a potentiometer involved so it's no big deal. I would use a dual 10k log potentiometer. You can get them for about a buck.

[Bravo911]

I have both arcade PCBs, and a pc in my cab. I have the PCBs wired direct to the arcade speakers, and I control that volume with the vol adjustment on each pcb, then I have a 2.1ch self powered set of jbl speakers that I mounted on the upper part of the cab near the arcade speakers. This allows for music and games simultaneously with independent volume control. I'll try to take some pics.

Sent from my XT910 using Tapatalk

[mamefreak2]

First of all, thanks to everyone for their responses. It's great that we have so many people here who are willing to help the less intelligent around here. I really appreciate it. 

In response to 'do I want good or authentic audio?' I'd prefer good audio. I'm using it for mp3s and as a jukebox so I want it to be half decent. Seeing as how the car speakers seem to be the more complicated option, I guess I'll stick with my cambridge audio as it works great.

The sub can stay inside the cabinet and I guess I can mount the two sattelite speakers under the marquee light. The volume is in fact a dongle and I'd prefer to have a volume knob on the cab somewhere. That's why I thought the Griffin PM might work.

What I would do is make an inline volume knob that is on the cab. Plug one end to your speakers, and the other to the computer. This way you could set the max inside the cab at the speaker's volume control, and then there would be no danger of for instance a toddler turning it up... to 11. There's only 3 wires and a potentiometer involved so it's no big deal. I would use a dual 10k log potentiometer. You can get them for about a buck.

Okay thanks, can you pleas explain how you'd do this?

[Grimoz]

One option is to get a set of Stereo PC speakers that come with a volume controlled subwoofer and 2 speakers and stick the sub in the bottom of the cab and control the volume from that, I did that on my mame machine and it works fine. I hacked the speakers and wired them up to original arcade speakers I already had installed and its great, has a very authentic sound.

Sorry, I don't follow you here, like I said I don't know any of this stuff. You say you have two PC speakers and two arcade speakers?

 Do you have two arcade speakers on the top and then two PC speakers somewhere else? How do you have the volume control? Is it inside the cabinet?

Nah man im only using the arcade speakers at the top of the cabinet but they are connected to the subwoofer in the bottom of the cab and thats where I control the volume. Originally the PC speakers were connected to the woofer but I cut the wires and wired the arcade speakers to the woofer instead. The woofer just plugs into the PC and they work like normal speakers.

[bullrees]

Doesn't the cambridge system have a volume knob on it somewhere.
Worst case, you dismantle that element, desolder the pot that the knob is connected to, and solder in a long pair of wires so you can relocate the pot (and the knob) somewhere else on the cab.
You'll ruin the speaker set for use in anything else, but it'd work just fine.

This is what I did with a cheap set of 2.1 computer speakers.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836150044
I took them apart/broke them to get the controls separated from the actual speakers. I extended the speaker wires and mounted the speakers on top where the normal speakers were located. The longer speaker wires (red and white wires) go to the relocated control board under the CP. I used the original grills from the pc set to cover the outside of the speaker on the arcade cabinet. I then cut a hole under the CP to mount the speaker controls. I found it really annoying that some games were so much louder than others but now I can change it with a roll of a finger.
Photos here.
http://imgur.com/a/W2X2n

[skewba98z28]

I bought these for my MAME cab and used velcro to attach the volume dongle to the bottom of my CP. I put the sub in the bottom of the cab and the 2 speakers up top where the speaker grilles are. It even has a on off switch on the dongle and a headphone jack. 99% of the people don't even see it

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121014

[Blanka]

I just control the system volume with Coin1 + Stick 1 up and Stick 1 down.

[Green Giant]

I came up with this idea quite a few years back.  I have it similar to what I assume you are doing, 2.1 speaker system with sub in bottom and 2 above monitor.

I bought a stereo potentiometer similar to one of these:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062359

Then I got a stereo extension cable for headphones similar to:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103868

Cut the cable in half, soldered it to the pot, and done.

Now I turn the volume on the speakers up to full all the time and they are connected to a volume controlling cable.  I also have a little knob like http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102830 which is set between the speakers above the monitor to interface with the potentiometer.


It works great.  About the only thing I think I should have gone with is a pot that has a longer turn down.  Right now I twist it about 180 degrees from nothing to LOUD. 

You can go more elegant, but this was the best solution I could think up at the time for a college kid's budget.

[bullrees]

I bought these for my MAME cab and used velcro to attach the volume dongle to the bottom of my CP. I put the sub in the bottom of the cab and the 2 speakers up top where the speaker grilles are. It even has a on off switch on the dongle and a headphone jack. 99% of the people don't even see it

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121014

You got me on cost and shipping but I wanted the extra watts.

EDIT: oh and I needed magnetically  shielded because I use a crt.

EDIT2: pics show lcd but started with crt...then went to lcd then went back to crt. odd I know.

[skewba98z28]

It actually is pretty loud for what it is. The cab amplify's the bass. I might add to it at a later date once I get moved into my new house.

[garnerb350]

I'm the type of person to where if i buy something, I try not to hack it unless i HAVE to... I had the same situation with my cab... I had a set of 2.1 speakers with the separate volume/on/off control... I ended up just mounting my satellite speakers above the monitor ( like most cabs) but I also drilled and routed a space in between the speaker mounts to where I could set the volume control inside and then took a piece of  1/4 wood (and mounted it over the volume control... I routed just enough area to where the volume control could be accessed without falling out... I love it... It allows me to quickly reach and change volume as needed...

[mamefreak2]

I'm the type of person to where if i buy something, I try not to hack it unless i HAVE to... I had the same situation with my cab... I had a set of 2.1 speakers with the separate volume/on/off control... I ended up just mounting my satellite speakers above the monitor ( like most cabs) but I also drilled and routed a space in between the speaker mounts to where I could set the volume control inside and then took a piece of  1/4 wood (and mounted it over the volume control... I routed just enough area to where the volume control could be accessed without falling out... I love it... It allows me to quickly reach and change volume as needed...

That looks cool. Are you using a Griffin powermate for this?

And I get that you routed an opening for the knob but how do you hold it in the cab? I didn't fully understand what you're saying here.

[mamefreak2]

I came up with this idea quite a few years back.  I have it similar to what I assume you are doing, 2.1 speaker system with sub in bottom and 2 above monitor.

I bought a stereo potentiometer similar to one of these:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062359

Then I got a stereo extension cable for headphones similar to:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103868

Cut the cable in half, soldered it to the pot, and done.

Now I turn the volume on the speakers up to full all the time and they are connected to a volume controlling cable.  I also have a little knob like http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102830 which is set between the speakers above the monitor to interface with the potentiometer.


It works great.  About the only thing I think I should have gone with is a pot that has a longer turn down.  Right now I twist it about 180 degrees from nothing to LOUD.  

You can go more elegant, but this was the best solution I could think up at the time for a college kid's budget.

That looks like a cool way to do it too. Do you have a step by step for dummies like myself?

[eds1275]

Okay thanks, can you pleas explain how you'd do this?

I came up with this idea quite a few years back.  I have it similar to what I assume you are doing, 2.1 speaker system with sub in bottom and 2 above monitor.

I bought a stereo potentiometer similar to one of these:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062359

Then I got a stereo extension cable for headphones similar to:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103868

Cut the cable in half, soldered it to the pot, and done.

Now I turn the volume on the speakers up to full all the time and they are connected to a volume controlling cable.  I also have a little knob like http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102830 which is set between the speakers above the monitor to interface with the potentiometer.


It works great.  About the only thing I think I should have gone with is a pot that has a longer turn down.  Right now I twist it about 180 degrees from nothing to LOUD. 

You can go more elegant, but this was the best solution I could think up at the time for a college kid's budget.

Pots are easy. If you are looking at the back side with the lugs down, then wire your inputs to the left lugs, outputs to the middle, and the right lug goes to ground. In a stacked potentiometer do the same for the stacked lugs.

[Green Giant]

Okay thanks, can you pleas explain how you'd do this?

I came up with this idea quite a few years back.  I have it similar to what I assume you are doing, 2.1 speaker system with sub in bottom and 2 above monitor.

I bought a stereo potentiometer similar to one of these:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062359

Then I got a stereo extension cable for headphones similar to:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103868

Cut the cable in half, soldered it to the pot, and done.

Now I turn the volume on the speakers up to full all the time and they are connected to a volume controlling cable.  I also have a little knob like http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102830 which is set between the speakers above the monitor to interface with the potentiometer.


It works great.  About the only thing I think I should have gone with is a pot that has a longer turn down.  Right now I twist it about 180 degrees from nothing to LOUD. 

You can go more elegant, but this was the best solution I could think up at the time for a college kid's budget.

Pots are easy. If you are looking at the back side with the lugs down, then wire your inputs to the left lugs, outputs to the middle, and the right lug goes to ground. In a stacked potentiometer do the same for the stacked lugs.

That looks like a cool way to do it too. Do you have a step by step for dummies like myself?

Basically what he said.

The input would be the male side of your stereo extension cable which you cut in half.  A stereo pot has 2 inputs and 2 outputs for left and right or white and red.

So input is male side white/red and output is female side white/red.

[magnetik]

another option would be to add a media center remote. (just hide the ir emitter somewhere) then just use the remote for volume

[mamefreak2]

another option would be to add a media center remote. (just hide the ir emitter somewhere) then just use the remote for volume

Can the emitter just stay inside the cabinet? Or does it need to be 'visible' to the remote?

[yotsuya]

Lots of times IR is line-of-sight, so it would have to be visible somehow.

[Afterburner]

I came up with this idea quite a few years back.  I have it similar to what I assume you are doing, 2.1 speaker system with sub in bottom and 2 above monitor.

I bought a stereo potentiometer similar to one of these:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062359

It works great.  About the only thing I think I should have gone with is a pot that has a longer turn down.  Right now I twist it about 180 degrees from nothing to LOUD. 

I like this solution.  I just promoted an older 2.1 set of powered speakers to duty in my MAME cab.  I was looking for a more convenient way to control volume.  On older version of MAME I had a dedicated VOLUME button that would bring up the volume slider.  But now MAME has switched to a VOL UP and VOL DOWN arrangement.

My remote speakers are connected using plain old speaker wire at both ends, so inserting a pot would be easy.

Regarding the range of the pot, you listed a 100k Ohm pot as your volume control.  Should I go to a higher resistance pot....say a 250k or 500k pot to get more range in volume adjustment?  Or am I thinking about this backwards and I really should go to a 50k pot?

I'll get a two channel pot and probably mount it to a small metal plate.  Then I'll use my router to hog out a thinner area for the plate on the inside of the cab and epoxy it in place so that the shaft comes through enough for me to grab it and make an adjustment. 

[eds1275]

I might make a few of these for my own purposes. If I do does anyone want one? My soldering skills are top-notch. Wouldn't be for a while but I am going to be doing a mouser order in the not so distant future.

[Green Giant]

I came up with this idea quite a few years back.  I have it similar to what I assume you are doing, 2.1 speaker system with sub in bottom and 2 above monitor.

I bought a stereo potentiometer similar to one of these:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062359

It works great.  About the only thing I think I should have gone with is a pot that has a longer turn down.  Right now I twist it about 180 degrees from nothing to LOUD.  

I like this solution.  I just promoted an older 2.1 set of powered speakers to duty in my MAME cab.  I was looking for a more convenient way to control volume.  On older version of MAME I had a dedicated VOLUME button that would bring up the volume slider.  But now MAME has switched to a VOL UP and VOL DOWN arrangement.

My remote speakers are connected using plain old speaker wire at both ends, so inserting a pot would be easy.

Regarding the range of the pot, you listed a 100k Ohm pot as your volume control.  Should I go to a higher resistance pot....say a 250k or 500k pot to get more range in volume adjustment?  Or am I thinking about this backwards and I really should go to a 50k pot?

I'll get a two channel pot and probably mount it to a small metal plate.  Then I'll use my router to hog out a thinner area for the plate on the inside of the cab and epoxy it in place so that the shaft comes through enough for me to grab it and make an adjustment.  

For the pot I am not exactly sure.  I would do an internet search on that one.

I think I bought the only stereo pot I could find in frys, but I am sure you can get a wide variety online.



It might even be that you need a non-linear pot to scale the audio in a linear method.  Anyone have any input on the exact logistics of potentiometers and audio output?



Update:  I did a little digging and you definitely want to make sure it is a logarithmic pot.

Even more digging and I found this guys random and very well written write up about doing exactly what I did.

http://scarvell.net/andrew/blog/?page_id=4

I guess great minds think alike.  You want a dual-ganged logarithmic potentiometer.  I am not sure if resistance is that important, what you want to find is which one has the greatest degree of turn.

Or more simply 360 degrees vs 180 degrees means you must turn it a full circle from nothing to loud as opposed to half a circle.  The greater the turn the greater you can tweak the audio.

[Afterburner]

Wow...that was a great write up.  Thanks!

Another interesting question on speakers....

Today I scavenged a bunch of parts from a nice DLP TV that died prematurely.  I got some nice looking speakers out of it and was thinking of using them in my cab.

There were two pairs of speakers.  Each individual speaker is marked at 16ohms impedance.  My current speaker set with the amplifier built into the subwoofer says the speakers should be 4 ohms or 8 ohms.

I used a multimeter and tested the 16ohm speakers and measured 7.3ohms each.

So now I'm wondering if each individual speaker is really 8 ohms and 16ohms for the pair.  But each individual speaker coil is marked.  I'm thinking I can't measure impedance the way I did it.

[darthpaul]

I'm using an L-PAD, since my coin door has three coin slots, I drilled a hole through the center change door and mounted it there.

[Dawgz Rule]

The easiest thing I found was to use PC speakers that already had a volume knob.  I simply attached the volume knob to the bottom of the control panel with velcro.  Looks clean and also has a headphone jack built in.

[Cynicaster]

Wow...that was a great write up.  Thanks!

Another interesting question on speakers....

Today I scavenged a bunch of parts from a nice DLP TV that died prematurely.  I got some nice looking speakers out of it and was thinking of using them in my cab.

There were two pairs of speakers.  Each individual speaker is marked at 16ohms impedance.  My current speaker set with the amplifier built into the subwoofer says the speakers should be 4 ohms or 8 ohms.

I used a multimeter and tested the 16ohm speakers and measured 7.3ohms each.

So now I'm wondering if each individual speaker is really 8 ohms and 16ohms for the pair.  But each individual speaker coil is marked.  I'm thinking I can't measure impedance the way I did it.

Electrical is not my strong point, but it sounds like what you measured is resistance, not impedance.  These are not the same thing.