HI-SCORE: worldwide sharing & public competitions (easy way)

[leapinlew]

In plain terms, I don't think there's the right kind of interest.

People enjoy their scoreboards on their Playstation and Xbox network, right? So, why wouldn't they enjoy similar "Arcade Network"? I think there would be interest in hundreds and thousands if people knew about it and there was official sponsor to give some credential to the whole thing.

I would expect every MAME player that submits scores to Twin Galaxies would prefer automatized option, it would also probably attract many more people to this global competition who are now simply lazy to submit their scores, which really is demanding and inconvenient, so I think there could be over thousand people ready to join right there. On the other hand this works just fine with only 5 or 10 people, try it, everything becomes more interesting and more "arcade-like". It's kind of when you having a free-play vs. inserting a coin, even if trivial that kind of thing can change the whole experience.

The comps here are a small-town-like, you know?

No, I'm sorry, what do you mean?

Well quit talking and build it already.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

In plain terms, I don't think there's the right kind of interest.

People enjoy their scoreboards on their Playstation and Xbox network, right? So, why wouldn't they enjoy similar "Arcade Network"? I think there would be interest in hundreds and thousands if people knew about it and there was official sponsor to give some credential to the whole thing.

I would expect every MAME player that submits scores to Twin Galaxies would prefer automatized option, it would also probably attract many more people to this global competition who are now simply lazy to submit their scores, which really is demanding and inconvenient, so I think there could be over thousand people ready to join right there. On the other hand this works just fine with only 5 or 10 people, try it, everything becomes more interesting and more "arcade-like". It's kind of when you having a free-play vs. inserting a coin, even if trivial that kind of thing can change the whole experience.

The comps here are a small-town-like, you know?

No, I'm sorry, what do you mean?

Well quit talking and build it already.

There's nothing to build. All he's done is realize that if you share the 'hi' folder, then multiple users get the same highscore table, assuming there's no issues when two users try and re-write the file at the same time, and no one erases it out of malice.

[yotsuya]

There's nothing to build. All he's done is realize that if you share the 'hi' folder, then multiple users get the same highscore table, assuming there's no issues when two users try and re-write the file at the same time, and no one erases it out of malice.

...Or that someone's version of MAME doesn't change or corrupt the hi file, as I have seen happen when a new version is used...

[CheffoJeffo]

Seriously, that's quite off-topic and offending to my kindness and effort to popularize this marvellous and revolutionary new idea.

Sounds familiar ... I guess you are back to ignoring the realities that people quite rightly point out.

Let's see how you spiral out of control this time.

 

[Sjaak]

I like the idea. But using a shared folder where everyone can modify/delete the .hi files is a bad idea. Sure with a couple of users it will work, but you will get deadlock issues when more people start using it.

But again, the idea to centralize hi scores is great and with a bit of work you could:

• Have bigger hi score tables (top 100).
• Have daily, weekly, monthly hi score tables to make it easier to beat hi scores.
• Link the hi scores to an alias instead of just 3 characters.
• Store screenshots of the hi scores.

But you would need a couple of things to do that...(switching to software architect mode)

a website (obviously), hosting, some sort of database to store all scores and some sort of application programming interface to store the hi scores in the system from the client.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

And keep in mind, if I start my game before you write your new high score, my new scores will overwrite yours.

This would have to turn into some kind of SVN system that can parse the .hi files and make intelligent decisions about which scores to keep and which to drop.

And before any of that, we have to assume that someone other than Zeke actually cares.

[chillinwater]

Sounds familiar ... I guess you are back to ignoring the realities that people quite rightly point out.

Let's see how you spiral out of control this time.

 

I am very sorry if I am the troll here and will take my punishment but...maybe its time to give him a taste of his own medicine!

He already unravelled "spiralled out of control" over in the Hyperspin forums and quickly derailed that thread. (and then trashed the shared .hi files in his competitors program to prove his point)

"Seriously, that's quite off-topic and offending to my kindness and effort to popularize this marvellous and revolutionary new idea. "
This is not even his marvellous and revolutionary new idea.

He is who you think he is.....

I pray I'm wrong but if Im not... may we all have mercy on our souls.

Im starting to see a similar pattern to the "driverman" style.
search "driverman" in the byaoc and you'll see what I mean.

Heres one to get you started and watch the metamorphosis as he gets banned only to re-imerge as somthing else....time and again....all in one thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=107935.0
Check the join date and the last ban date in the thread above.

Dont feed and slooowwly back away.

Mods keep a finger on the "lock thread button"

I pray I'm wrong but if Im not... may we all have mercy on our souls.
Im starting to see a similar pattern to the "driverman" style.

You mean friendly neighbourhood Driver-man?

Driver-man, Driver-man, does whatever a driver can
Spins a code any size, catches bugs just like flies
Look out, here comes the Driver-man!

Is he strong? Listen bud, he's got radioactive blood
Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead
Hey, there! There goes the Driver-man!

In the chill of the night
At the scene of a crime
Like a streak of light
He arrives just in time!

Driver-man, Driver-man, friendly neighborhood Driver-man
Wealth and fame he's ignored, thrill & action is his reward
Look out, here comes the Driver-man!

[leapinlew]

Just great...

[CheffoJeffo]

Just great...

Invite ?

[leapinlew]

Just great...

Invite ?

[torino]

Sounds familiar ... I guess you are back to ignoring the realities that people quite rightly point out.

Let's see how you spiral out of control this time.

What are you talking about? What do you imagine I am trying to do here and what is wrong about it, what's your problem with it, what's your complaint about? -- You either like the idea and want to help realize it, or not. That's it, there is no argument. So even though many like the idea no one here seem interested enough to test it and actually do something, other than talk about it, and that's where I give up. End of story, now forget about it.

[torino]

And keep in mind, if I start my game before you write your new high score, my new scores will overwrite yours.

No, that's nonsense. Shared web-folder is up running, go ahead and test it.


1.) Top menu of any folder: Tools->Map Network Drive...

Drive Z: -> http://www.drivehq.com/webdav/OnlineMAME
Username: onlinemame / Password: letmeplay


2.) MAME .ini change: hiscore_directory       Z:\Hi-Score

[torino]

He already unravelled "spiralled out of control" over in the Hyperspin forums and quickly derailed that thread. (and then trashed the shared .hi files in his competitors program to prove his point)

Hahahaa! No. I simply put a different dkong.hi file in my local "Hi" folder in order to test HyperScore and see how it parses files, merges and syncs local folders with server. To my surprise I found out there was no any parsing, merging and syncing but the program was simply uploading and downloading .hi files from server to local folder and back by simply overwriting older files with new ones. There was also no cheat checking, file protection or account security, no any SQL database, nothing done on server side, nothing done on client side, but the guy somehow managed to convince people his program has all those features, so when I explained I can see exactly what his program is doing and what is not doing, that is actually not working properly and is just more complicated version of "shared web-folder", they deleted the whole thread. Strange, eh? And now you think I am the boogeyman for giving you equally capable but simpler solution which actually works? Marvellous!

[torino]

I like the idea. But using a shared folder where everyone can modify/delete the .hi files is a bad idea. Sure with a couple of users it will work, but you will get deadlock issues when more people start using it.

Why do you think there would be "deadlock" issues? The files are open for writing just briefly at the end of the game, so if two or more users happen to finish the same game in the same time some of them will experience a bit longer delay (MAME glitch) while waiting for others to finish their update first. That's all, there should not be any file corruption or anything else. The server is up and running, try it, test it.

In any case I agree, if this was to become popular there would need to be account security and proper file protection together with backup system in order to prevent illegal updates or deletion of the database even if only by accident. However, there is just so much we can do with free file sharing services. Ideally we need active server that can run scripts, and that's not free as far as I know, though Saint could possibly provide a shared folder on this server with no much fuss, together with limited access for already existing forum accounts.

So anyway, until someone comes along with free solution for a real server we are limited, but limited only security-wise, so if we were really interested we could start playing right now, then slowly improve it as/if interest grows, and even if we could not find proper free server we could still regulate and resolve all the issues, less securely though, by implementing it all on a client instead of server side.


I want to underline that "security" here has nothing to do with some potential risk for client computers, the risk here is only about keeping the database safe and clean, possibly monitor cheating. Sharing scoreboard and publishing your records is no higher risk than sharing on-line forum and posting your messages right here in this thread.

But again, the idea to centralize hi scores is great and with a bit of work you could:

• Have bigger hi score tables (top 100).
• Have daily, weekly, monthly hi score tables to make it easier to beat hi scores.
• Link the hi scores to an alias instead of just 3 characters.
• Store screenshots of the hi scores.

But you would need a couple of things to do that...(switching to software architect mode)

a website (obviously), hosting, some sort of database to store all scores and some sort of application programming interface to store the hi scores in the system from the client.

Yes, I can do all that, with proper server or even without it, but I can't test it alone, nor do I want to play with myself. We have a start, we have usable server and we can start playing right now. You find me 20 people interested to play and test it and I will incorporate everything else, deal?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

And keep in mind, if I start my game before you write your new high score, my new scores will overwrite yours.

No, that's nonsense. Shared web-folder is up running, go ahead and test it.


1.) Top menu of any folder: Tools->Map Network Drive...

Drive Z: -> http://www.drivehq.com/webdav/OnlineMAME
Username: onlinemame / Password: letmeplay


2.) MAME .ini change: hiscore_directory       Z:\Hi-Score

Mame only writes the .hi on exit.

9:00 user a starts a game and loads game.hi with a top score of 100.
9:01 user b starts a game and loads game.hi with a top score of 100.
9:10 user a scores 500 and exits the game, writing a new game.hi
9:15 user b's mame is unaware of the new game.hi and scores 300.
9:16 user b also scores 400 and exits. Mame Overwrites game.hi with the table containing user b's two scores
9:20 user c starts a game and never sees user a's score.   

[torino]

Mame only writes the .hi on exit.

9:00 user a starts a game and loads game.hi with a top score of 100.
9:01 user b starts a game and loads game.hi with a top score of 100.
9:10 user a scores 500 and exits the game, writing a new game.hi
9:15 user b's mame is unaware of the new game.hi and scores 300.
9:16 user b also scores 400 and exits. Mame Overwrites game.hi with the table containing user b's two scores
9:20 user c starts a game and never sees user a's score.  

That's actually true, I was wrong, I am sorry, and thank you. It seems I didn't properly test it the fist time around when it appeared MAME is already merging files at the right time, but it actually never loads the file again before writing a score, it reads only once at the start, or restart, and it writes only once when the game exits, as you said. So, unfortunately, this is kind of problem that requires MAME patching, or alternatively some external solution via front-end.

I would solve this problem by making special MAME build, which would later become necessary anyway. GAME STARTS: read .hi file after which MAME keeps it in memory as usual, until...  GAME ENDS: just before it's time to enter initials MAME reads .hi file again, which is the most recent update at this time and the file now gets locked for others, then MAME replaces scores in game memory and when you enter initials the game itself could merge your new score, as it normally does, but this time with the most recent ones, and finally then our MAME build should save to web-folder and unlock the file before continuing with emulation.

The solution is simply to always READ just before WRITE and have the file unavailable for others in the mean time. That's how we could "sync" without proper server, and this way score "merging" could hopefully stay a part of the game itself. Though if we want to expand those built-in game scoreboards we would end up using external parsing and merging anyway, and this means the final system would need HiToText employed either on client or server side. That's quite a bit to think about. Thanks again.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

GAME ENDS: just before it's time to enter initials MAME reads .hi file again, which is the most recent update at this time and the file now gets locked for others, then MAME replaces scores in game memory and when you enter initials the game itself could merge your new score, as it normally does, but this time with the most recent ones, and finally then our MAME build should save to web-folder and unlock the file before continuing with emulation.

The solution is simply to always READ just before WRITE and have the file unavailable for others in the mean time. That's how we could "sync" without proper server, and this way score "merging" could hopefully stay a part of the game itself. Though if we want to expand those built-in game scoreboards we would end up using external parsing and merging anyway, and this means the final system would need HiToText employed either on client or server side. That's quite a bit to think about. Thanks again.

MAME has no concept of when it's time to enter initials. What you're proposing is going to be a build of mame with a watchdog function monitoring the location in the emulated games ram where the the .hi is copied from and constantly checking that versus some external server for merger/updates.

Any update to that ram that happens outside of the normal time it's updated (during the end-game sequence of whatever your emulated games is) will have to happen BEFORE the player would be entering initials, otherwise the emulated game would not be able to rank the new score correctly (or reject it as a low score).

Then the question becomes does the emulated game draw it's 'top score' constantly referencing the same location in ram as where the .hi is copied from? From a fixed system with low ram, this would seem to be the more frugal way to do it, but if it doesn't you can't do anything about it without altering the ROM on a per-game basis. No one wants to play a system where the "High Score" you're trying to beat occasionally ends up to no longer be the high score by the time you beat it.

The fact that you missed such a simple file writing scheduling conflict doesn't speak well to your ability to actually make this work. This is not some new glorious concept, it's been possible for this to work in a controlled environment (where you manage the file writing issue with people rather than hardware) ever since .hi files were introduced. I though about the logistics of doing this on a home private network where multiple MAME machines existed several years ago. But, as many people have pointed out, no one seems to care about this working on as large a scale as this forum, much less the entire internet.

[leapinlew]

The fact that you missed such a simple file writing scheduling conflict doesn't speak well to your ability to actually make this work. This is not some new glorious concept, it's been possible for this to work in a controlled environment (where you manage the file writing issue with people rather than hardware) ever since .hi files were introduced. I though about the logistics of doing this on a home private network where multiple MAME machines existed several years ago. But, as many people have pointed out, no one seems to care about this working on as large a scale as this forum, much less the entire internet.

I couldn't agree more. Whats further frustrating is his inability to see other obvious roadblocks. Now he's suggesting a custom compiled version of Mame which I pointed out as a solution 5 days ago. 

I guess there is a small interest to see if this works, as it seems to crop up from time to time, but the effort to pull this off isn't worth the reward. A ton of coding and engineering just so you can have a larger pool of peoples initials.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Like I said, if you REALLY want to do this, the ideal solution is to not modify MAME. Most ideally it should be rather transparent to users like the proposed shared drive via WebDAV.. But for the back-end....

You could probably manage to use something similar to an  SVN system to collect .hi files. Your shared .hi file is not the only singular file; it's presented on a per-client basis. When the back-end detects a write to the WebDAV share, use the .hi parsing engine from projects like HitoText to parse the scores into a database and then dynamically re-build the .hi with the current hi-scores, and write that back to the WebDAV.

Doing it this way would allow you to 'bracket' the scores on a per-user basis so that high scores are more meaningful to the individual players....

I suck at Donkey Kong. It took me three weeks of trying every morning to get past the first damn level. I was thrilled to get a score higher than the default high score. I think it's wonderful that players can get such high scores in the game but honestly I don't care. What I MIGHT care about is comparing my hi-score to everyone with a score that's less than 2X my accounts current best (Or some other multiplier based as a function of the total number of high scores available on a particular game). Since we're writing parsed scores to a database on the back end, then I can compare scores being generated by my user account to others and have a custom .hi generated for me with scores of other individuals of a similar playing (and thus scoring) ability.

What this system does NOT provide is the ability for scores to be dynamically updated IN-GAME. You have to modify mame to do that.. but again if we're generating scores dynamically to begin with then you could make it optional on your user account to have the file updated every n-intervals and have a modified mame build that re-reads and re-patches ram at that given interval. I don't think most people care, but maybe some do. Either way with a properly designed back end it should accommodate both methods of updating.

I'm sure there are flaws in this system, and scenarios I've not though about. I think it's an interesting technical proposal but I don't have terribly much interest in doing it myself, nor would I be interested in participating. Either way I don't believe you can run such a system reliably on freely available services, thus being able to pay to provide the service becomes an issue, and as small as the community is, and even smaller those interested in a such a system, I just don't see it  happening.

[leapinlew]

I would solve this problem by making special MAME build

Do it already...

[CheffoJeffo]

Sounds familiar ... I guess you are back to ignoring the realities that people quite rightly point out.

Let's see how you spiral out of control this time.

What are you talking about? What do you imagine I am trying to do here and what is wrong about it, what's your problem with it, what's your complaint about? -- You either like the idea and want to help realize it, or not. That's it, there is no argument. So even though many like the idea no one here seem interested enough to test it and actually do something, other than talk about it, and that's where I give up. End of story, now forget about it.

I am talking about your penchant for dismissing objections that are legitimate and obvious to damned near everybody other than you. I am talking about how you perceive every objection as an attack and then behave like a petulant child.

It is my, and most other people's, experience that when you hit that wall, you spiral out of control, send us all PMs, ---smurfette---, whine and complain.

You re-register with different IDs and through various proxies because you lack both the courage and integrity to stand behind what you say.

But never actually DO anything.

That is what I am talking about.

[torino]

I am talking about your penchant for dismissing objections that are legitimate and obvious to damned near everybody other than you. I am talking about how you perceive every objection as an attack and then behave like a petulant child.

What objection? What's the argument?

You don't like the idea so we should all just stop talking about it?

What is your problem, what do you want me to do? This is simple discussion where people express their opinions, it's not a war and you don't have to participate. You either like the idea and want to help realize it, or not, there is nothing to argue about, so why provoking me for no reason, kiddo?

But never actually DO anything.

Hahahaaa!! Do what?

What do you want me to do? What the hell do you want?

That is what I am talking about.

What? You said nothing, you're waving hands, I don't even know what are we supposed to be arguing about. You're just made empty provocation with no reason or explanation given. What do you want?

[torino]

I couldn't agree more. Whats further frustrating is his inability to see other obvious roadblocks. Now he's suggesting a custom compiled version of Mame which I pointed out as a solution 5 days ago. 

No, there are no any roadblocks. Your suggestion was about modifying game ROMs.


Why are you provoking  me, what did I do to you? What are we arguing about?

Why is simple discussion frustrating to you, why not just leave? What do you want?

I guess there is a small interest to see if this works, as it seems to crop up from time to time, but the effort to pull this off isn't worth the reward. A ton of coding and engineering just so you can have a larger pool of peoples initials.

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic, or are you just talking about people on this forum?

[CheffoJeffo]

Why are you provoking  me, what did I do to you?

Are you seriously asking this, after all of the crap that you have pulled here ... any pretty much everywhere ... with your tantrums, spam and ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- ?

 

[torino]

Why are you provoking  me, what did I do to you?

Are you seriously asking this, after all of the crap that you have pulled here ... any pretty much everywhere ... with your tantrums, spam and ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- ?

 

I think that means you don't like me. Sorry about that.

Sooooo, what can I do for you?

[leapinlew]

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested

No... I don't think they would. Do you presume to think they would be?

Oh... and I suggested you modify Mame.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Sooooo, what can I do for you?

[torino]

MAME has no concept of when it's time to enter initials. What you're proposing is going to be a build of mame with a watchdog function monitoring the location in the emulated games ram where the the .hi is copied from and constantly checking that versus some external server for merger/updates.

Yes, it would need to be _after initials are entered. Yes watchdog, to monitor scoreboard memory every frame (or every second), but talking to server would be only necessary when there has been actual change on local scoreboard, although read-only updates would be welcome at the beginning of each game, perhaps triggered by insert coin/start button action.

Any update to that ram that happens outside of the normal time it's updated (during the end-game sequence of whatever your emulated games is) will have to happen BEFORE the player would be entering initials, otherwise the emulated game would not be able to rank the new score correctly (or reject it as a low score).

Then the question becomes does the emulated game draw it's 'top score' constantly referencing the same location in ram as where the .hi is copied from?

Yes, that was not good idea. We need to do score merging on our own, and it has to be after initials are entered - when internal scoreboard gets updated, which is what our watchdog would be monitoring.

No one wants to play a system where the "High Score" you're trying to beat occasionally ends up to no longer be the high score by the time you beat it.

Isn't that kind of normal for internet scoreboard? How Playstation and Xbox scoreboards work regarding that issue? The alternative is to pull updates from server at some regular time interval during the game. It's all the same to me, what do you suggest?

The fact that you missed such a simple file writing scheduling conflict doesn't speak well to your ability to actually make this work.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

This is not some new glorious concept, it's been possible for this to work in a controlled environment (where you manage the file writing issue with people rather than hardware) ever since .hi files were introduced. I though about the logistics of doing this on a home private network where multiple MAME machines existed several years ago. But, as many people have pointed out, no one seems to care about this working on as large a scale as this forum, much less the entire internet.

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

[torino]

Die in a fire, sheesh!?

I don't know, I don't think I'm mortal.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Isn't that kind of normal for internet scoreboard? How Playstation and Xbox scoreboards work regarding that issue? The alternative is to pull updates from server at some regular time interval during the game. It's all the same to me, what do you suggest?

I have no clue. I don't use any of those systems.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Then prove us wrong.

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

No I don't. I might be wrong. Prove me as such. Again, I don't think you can do it.

I don't know, I don't think I'm mortal.

Awesome. you can enjoy it even longer!

[torino]

Like I said, if you REALLY want to do this, the ideal solution is to not modify MAME. Most ideally it should be rather transparent to users like the proposed shared drive via WebDAV.. But for the back-end....

You could probably manage to use something similar to an  SVN system to collect .hi files. Your shared .hi file is not the only singular file; it's presented on a per-client basis. When the back-end detects a write to the WebDAV share, use the .hi parsing engine from projects like HitoText to parse the scores into a database and then dynamically re-build the .hi with the current hi-scores, and write that back to the WebDAV.

Doing it this way would allow you to 'bracket' the scores on a per-user basis so that high scores are more meaningful to the individual players....

What this system does NOT provide is the ability for scores to be dynamically updated IN-GAME. You have to modify mame to do that.. but again if we're generating scores dynamically to begin with then you could make it optional on your user account to have the file updated every n-intervals and have a modified mame build that re-reads and re-patches ram at that given interval. I don't think most people care, but maybe some do. Either way with a properly designed back end it should accommodate both methods of updating.

Without embedding this in MAME we don't get "trigger events" when to make reads/writes and sync with the server and I think that's quite important advantage and very good reason to do it that way. I don't see there is any disadvantage to having special MAME build, or simply a patch, just like addition of hi-scores themselves comes as a patch. I would very much like to avoid background process doing any file access at some time intervals, especially during gameplay.

I'm sure there are flaws in this system, and scenarios I've not though about. I think it's an interesting technical proposal but I don't have terribly much interest in doing it myself, nor would I be interested in participating. Either way I don't believe you can run such a system reliably on freely available services, thus being able to pay to provide the service becomes an issue, and as small as the community is, and even smaller those interested in a such a system, I just don't see it  happening.

My system, whatever that is, would surely have minimum possible flaws and be the most optimal with given resources.

[CheffoJeffo]

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

Since it wouldn't meet requirements for submission and validation ... nope, they won't be interested. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Sooooo, what can I do for you?

 

[torino]

Then prove us wrong.

Sure, but what's the bet, what's at stake? I'll do everything if you can find 20 people willing to test it. I can also do individual parts of the project for less, so let's make a contract, tell me how many souls are you willing to sacrifice, how many test-slaves can you promise and what task would you like me to perform in return?

No I don't. I might be wrong. Prove me as such. Again, I don't think you can do it.

Well, Twin Galaxies just happen to be off-line, it's down for several days now. I sure want to ask them and eventually we should hear what some of them think, but what's about "prove me wrong" attitude? What's the point, what's the purpose of that? Can't we simply just talk and discover things together?

[torino]

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

Since it wouldn't meet requirements for submission and validation ... nope, they won't be interested. 

What do you mean? I am talking about MAME players, they only need to submit recorded input as a proof, no?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Like I said, if you REALLY want to do this, the ideal solution is to not modify MAME. Most ideally it should be rather transparent to users like the proposed shared drive via WebDAV.. But for the back-end....

You could probably manage to use something similar to an  SVN system to collect .hi files. Your shared .hi file is not the only singular file; it's presented on a per-client basis. When the back-end detects a write to the WebDAV share, use the .hi parsing engine from projects like HitoText to parse the scores into a database and then dynamically re-build the .hi with the current hi-scores, and write that back to the WebDAV.

Doing it this way would allow you to 'bracket' the scores on a per-user basis so that high scores are more meaningful to the individual players....

What this system does NOT provide is the ability for scores to be dynamically updated IN-GAME. You have to modify mame to do that.. but again if we're generating scores dynamically to begin with then you could make it optional on your user account to have the file updated every n-intervals and have a modified mame build that re-reads and re-patches ram at that given interval. I don't think most people care, but maybe some do. Either way with a properly designed back end it should accommodate both methods of updating.

Without embedding this in MAME we don't get "trigger events" when to make reads/writes and sync with the server and I think that's quite important advantage and very good reason to do it that way. I don't see there is any disadvantage to having special MAME build, or simply a patch, just like addition of hi-scores themselves comes as a patch. I would very much like to avoid background process doing any file access at some time intervals, especially during gameplay.

I'm sure there are flaws in this system, and scenarios I've not though about. I think it's an interesting technical proposal but I don't have terribly much interest in doing it myself, nor would I be interested in participating. Either way I don't believe you can run such a system reliably on freely available services, thus being able to pay to provide the service becomes an issue, and as small as the community is, and even smaller those interested in a such a system, I just don't see it  happening.

My system, whatever that is, would surely have minimum possible flaws and be the most optimal with given resources.

Did you even read what you are quoting?

[torino]

What do you mean? We generally agree and I just explained why I prefer one solution (internal) over the other (external). Is there anything else you want to add, maybe agree or disagree with something? Go ahead and tell us, I appreciate your input. Speak your mind, my friend.

[torino]

Here is an easy "external" solution...

Play off-line if you like, as usual, and connect to internet only when merging hi-scores, or alternatively transfer .hi files to another computer with internet connection and do the syncing with the server from the there. The program is simple batch script (.BAT) using HiToText utility to both parse and merge hi-scores. It also does removal of duplicate entries and regulates server file access to ensure no score will be lost. I'm lazy tester but this time I did test it quite a bit and it appears it works very well. Who would think you could program this thing with DOS .BAT script, eh? Anyway, this one is hard coded for Galaga, but it's quite possible to generalize it and make it work for all the other games supported by HiToText.

SYNC.BAT *** GALAGA ONLY ***

Code: [Select]

@echo off & SETLOCAL ENABLEDELAYEDEXPANSION
cls & echo Local init, server lock...
mkdir hi
rename z:\Hi-Score\galaga.hi galaga.tmp
echo. & echo File locked, downloading...
copy z:\Hi-Score\galaga.tmp hi\galaga.hi

echo. & echo Merging SERVER Hi-Scores...
FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%A IN ('HiToText -r ../hi/galaga') do (
SET /a IsDuplicate=0
FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%E IN ('HiToText -r ./hi/galaga') do (
if %%B==%%F (IF %%C==%%G SET /a IsDuplicate=1) )
IF !IsDuplicate!==0 HiToText -w ./hi/galaga %%A %%B "%%C"
)

echo. & echo Uploading back, unlocking...
copy hi\galaga.hi z:\Hi-Score\galaga.hi
echo. & echo  - SERVER UPDATE FINISHED - & echo.

echo. & echo Merging CLIENT Hi-Scores...
FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%A IN ('HiToText -r ./hi/galaga') do (
SET /a IsDuplicate=0
FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%E IN ('HiToText -r ../hi/galaga') do (
if %%B==%%F (IF %%C==%%G SET /a IsDuplicate=1) )
IF !IsDuplicate!==0 HiToText -w ../hi/galaga %%A %%B "%%C"
)

echo. & echo Cleaning up temporaries...
del z:\Hi-Score\galaga.tmp
del hi\galaga.hi & rmdir hi


How it works?

1.) Rename the server file (poor man locking)
2.) Copy server file to temporary local folder
3.) Merge client scores with server scores
4.) Upload back with correct name (unlock)
5.) Merge server scores with client scores
6.) Delete temporary client and server files

[severdhed]

i tried reading through this entire thread, but with all the bickering, it was tough to get through.  I set up a drop box account so i could sync hi scores between my two cabinets and my friend's cabinet. i don't need to see how much i suck compared to all of you, but i figured being able to sync these scores between these 3 cabinets would be nice.  i haven't had alot of time to test, but it seems to work ok.  i guess the only way it could be a problem is if we are both playing the same game at the same time...which probably will not happen very often. 

the other problem i see is that i have mala running as the windows shell, so drop box doesn't actually run, unless i exit mala and let explorer launch, then drop box runs and syncs the files.  i'm assuming this could be resolved by using a 3rd party utility to run dropbox as a service.   i'd love to have this working, but i am a little hesitant to have a really awesome game and set an awesome hi score, only to have it disappear because my friend was playing at the same time.

[torino]

I set up a drop box account so i could sync hi scores between my two cabinets and my friend's cabinet. i don't need to see how much i suck compared to all of you, but i figured being able to sync these scores between these 3 cabinets would be nice. 

I can help you make it work properly. Instead of dropbox you can use www.drivehq.com to set up shared web-folder, it's also free, but the advantage here is that only one person needs to open account and no one needs to install anything but map web folder as a network drive and from there on it's just the same as dropbox. You can use my drivehq account (see above) to try it out, there is already dkong, 1942 and galaga .hi files there.

i guess the only way it could be a problem is if we are both playing the same game at the same time...which probably will not happen very often. 

That's right, as cotmm68030 pointed out, but you can sort that problem as well with HiToText utility and .BAT script.

the other problem i see is that i have mala running as the windows shell, so drop box doesn't actually run, unless i exit mala and let explorer launch, then drop box runs and syncs the files.  i'm assuming this could be resolved by using a 3rd party utility to run dropbox as a service. 

You can handle all the initialization via .BAT script.

i'd love to have this working, but i am a little hesitant to have a really awesome game and set an awesome hi score, only to have it disappear because my friend was playing at the same time.

Only testing will tell for sure, but as far as I tested my proposed solution works very well. I can also extend that script to make backups in case something does go wrong.