HI-SCORE: worldwide sharing & public competitions (easy way)

[torino]

I've heard people have been successful in sharing high scores over internet with "Dropbox" (virtual on-line folder), which works transparently with MAME as if high score files were actually stored on a local disk. http://www.dropbox.com/

How about we open Dropbox account to serve as some kind of official BYOAC/MAME scoreboard server? Something like Twin Galaxies, but simpler, completely automatic and without need to have judges, maybe even spice it with weekly competitions and daily challenges, add user ratings, statistics... and what not?


C O M P E T I T I O N, it is the only aspect of "arcade nostalgia" that is still missing from MAME. That feeling of beating a high score is not quite the same if no one is there to see it, and especially if the score you just beaten is not your own. Can this be "emulated", can we make this?

[Nephasth]

That would be cool. But I would never have my MAME computer hooked to the interwebs. I would be willing to upload from a flash drive, but that wouldn't be real time.

[torino]

What do you mean, what is it you dislike about having internet connection?

[ptinolv]

I like the idea.

Does it require that everyone uses the same Mame version ? It may be also hard to control cheating.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

It would be impossible to control cheating.

fixed that for you.

[Dazz]

Over on the HyperSpin site we have something called HyperScore that member Rain is currently building.

HyperScore - Sync Mame Scores With Thousands of Users!


This app does NOT use dropbox.  The files are stored on a server and then sync'd to other players upon launch.  The app has some basic cheat detection and more being worked on.  It can detect when a cheat was activated in MAME.  We are actually planning on a leaderboard type system.  Right now the app is in an early alpha test.  A few select people have access right now, but it will be available for HyperSpin members in the future. 

[torino]

I like the idea.

Does it require that everyone uses the same Mame version ?

I think hi-score files are compatible across many versions of MAME, say as much as ROMs are, and as long as that's true people could use different -but compatible- versions without fear of corrupting the database, although it would probably be much better to have a single common build so to provide exact same gameplay standard for everyone, to facilitate possible extensions and make it easier to troubleshoot.

It would be impossible to control cheating.

fixed that for you.

Maybe there is an easy way to control cheating, perhaps we could prevent or at least discourage it by recording gameplay and uploading the "movie" along with updating hi-score database, automatically. That would not make it cheat-proof but everyone else would be able to verify recordings, which I think are impossible to fake, and it would be interesting to actually see what others are doing, study different techniques, learn the winning patterns and tricks, then improve and ultimately do better.

I particularly like the idea to have little challenges, for example 90 seconds "point pressing" or "speed run" type of mini contests, or some kind of arcade triathlon where you play three different games for some limited amount of time and combine the score from all three, or maybe some type of trick-challenge where you have to play in some non-standard way, like those trick-shots in billiard, or some stuff like that to make practice between the tournaments more fun.

[torino]

Over on the HyperSpin site we have something called HyperScore that member Rain is currently building.

HyperScore - Sync Mame Scores With Thousands of Users!


This app does NOT use dropbox.  The files are stored on a server and then sync'd to other players upon launch.  The app has some basic cheat detection and more being worked on.  It can detect when a cheat was activated in MAME.  We are actually planning on a leaderboard type system.  Right now the app is in an early alpha test.  A few select people have access right now, but it will be available for HyperSpin members in the future. 

That's great, but is there any advantage in using that over Dropbox?

What kind of server it uses, is it static file holder as Dropbox, is it free?

What is the minimum system requirements necessary to run HyperScore?

[Nephasth]

What do you mean, what is it you dislike about having internet connection?

we could prevent or at least discourage it by recording gameplay and uploading the "movie" along with updating hi-score database, automatically.

Well, there's one reason I hadn't thought of before that I definitely don't want on my machine.

[Harakiri]

What do you mean, what is it you dislike about having internet connection?

we could prevent or at least discourage it by recording gameplay and uploading the "movie" along with updating hi-score database, automatically.

Well, there's one reason I hadn't thought of before that I definitely don't want on my machine.

Eventhough one can't estimate the universe of players willing to benefit of this system, wouldn't it clog the servers? Can you imagine thousands of videos being uploaded on a daily basis being kept as proof for everyone to download..? 

[ptinolv]

I think the problem with dropbox is that everyone has the same read/write rights on the files. It may become complicated with a lot of players (delete, etc.). If I understood correctly, Hyperscore has the files on a server and don't let the clients mess with it directly.

I am not sure how Hyperscore deals with conflicts, but with a lot of users in dropbox we may end up with some of them (http://www.dropbox.com/help/36). Meaning that some scores may not be taken into account.

Can you imagine thousands of videos being uploaded on a daily basis being kept as proof for everyone to download..?  

That doesn't really solve anything, but I think Mame has INP recording that are not that big.

[torino]

What do you mean, what is it you dislike about having internet connection?

we could prevent or at least discourage it by recording gameplay and uploading the "movie" along with updating hi-score database, automatically.

Well, there's one reason I hadn't thought of before that I definitely don't want on my machine.

Why not? I don't understand what are you talking about. What's wrong with having internet connection, recording game input or sharing files?

[torino]

Eventhough one can't estimate the universe of players willing to benefit of this system, wouldn't it clog the servers? Can you imagine thousands of videos being uploaded on a daily basis being kept as proof for everyone to download..? 

Millions of people already share their videos, photos and whatever type of files over the internet, and somehow many of those file hosting services are free, so I think it's reasonable to expect we could too find some free server to suit our purpose which would support thousands and possibly many more users.

These "recordings" are not actual videos but only input (keystrokes) and initial state from which MAME constructs the video by using real-time emulation, so the files are very small and can be compressed very well. We could also limit the database to hold recordings for only certain number of top places, we could limit the number of games and each game, each tournament and each competition could have separate account, not just separate folder, so to offload the traffic to many different "clouds", in this so called "cloud networking", if necessary.

[torino]

I think the problem with dropbox is that everyone has the same read/write rights on the files. It may become complicated with a lot of players (delete, etc.). If I understood correctly, Hyperscore has the files on a server and don't let the clients mess with it directly.

I am not sure how Hyperscore deals with conflicts, but with a lot of users in dropbox we may end up with some of them (http://www.dropbox.com/help/36). Meaning that some scores may not be taken into account.

Yes, perhaps Dropbox is not ideal solution, it's just that people who actually did this experiment decided to use that particular server provider, and it turned out it was good enough while extremely easy to set up. Maybe some kind of ftp server would be better, and perhaps we could even use yahoo mail and share hi-score files by logging to a common email account. Whatever the case I'd like to hear about all possibilities and if there is any better solution.

On the other hand we could always fix the problem with multiple simultaneous file access by programing things on the client side, so we could make addition to our MAME build, or front-end, that would check if there was any problem with last server access and simply repeat upload/download until successful.

Reading the same file at the same time by more than one user is fine, it's only troublesome when we need to write, make changes, but that would only happen when someone break some record, which shouldn't really happen all that often, while input ("movie") recordings would be written only once and could then be accessed (read-only) by many users simultaneously without any problem.

[Gray_Area]

It would be as if we were all are playing on one and the same computer, anyone could set a new record at any time and everyone else would be able to know about it in real time.

I don't think people are checking BYOAC competition scores on their phones at two in the morning.

[wweumina]

It would be as if we were all are playing on one and the same computer, anyone could set a new record at any time and everyone else would be able to know about it in real time.

I don't think people are checking BYOAC competition scores on their phones at two in the morning.

Lol, I just read the current high score thread.

Sent from my phone at 11pm.

[ptinolv]

My main problem with this,  is that i am not very good at video games   Meaning that quickly I will just see an unreachable top 10 (more or less depending on the games) of people I don't know.

It would be nice to have a server that gather high scores from everybody, extract the scores (with hitotext for instance) and put it in an online database. Like that I would see that I am ranked 92 over 200 people at donkey kong for instance. I would keep my local hiscore.  It would also be possible to have ranking by countries or access this ranking from the frontend.

[spoot]

It would be nice to have a server that gather high scores from everybody, extract the scores (with hitotext for instance) and put it in an online database. Like that I would see that I am ranked 92 over 200 people at donkey kong for instance. I would keep my local hiscore.  It would also be possible to have ranking by countries or access this ranking from the frontend.

I've been contemplating doing sumthing like this today.  The HyperSpin/HyperScore boys have no interest in Mac or Linux so I'm pondering the feasibility of one that does all three os's on my own.  My webdesign sucks though.   

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I would be much more interested in a system that generates game lists based on 'what's popular' among people participating...

something parses log files, or run time instances, or whatever to determine what games i've played, sends that play count to a server, then spits back out a list file for my front end (hyperspin, mala, maximus, atmoic, flat xml, whatever) of the popular games this week, month, etc. Maybe even other lists like 'Games played by less than 3 people' or something.

That way I'd always have a list of new games to try.

[leapinlew]

What do you mean, what is it you dislike about having internet connection?

My Mame systems are closed systems. They do not require Microsoft updates, antivirus updates, etc. This means the system is more stable than a system that is constantly randomly adding updated software. If I allowed an internet connection, I would have to worry about malware, worms, viruses, etc.

[spoot]

My boredom so-far today produced this...........

[ptinolv]

[...]  that play count to a server, then spits back out a list file for my front end (hyperspin, mala, maximus, atmoic, flat xml, whatever) of the popular games this week, month, etc. [...]

Gameex seems to count the plays, because it has a list of popular games.

My boredom so-far today produced this...........

Is it just the interface or is there something behind ?

[torino]

It would be as if we were all are playing on one and the same computer, anyone could set a new record at any time and everyone else would be able to know about it in real time.

I don't think people are checking BYOAC competition scores on their phones at two in the morning.

I have no idea what are you talking about. I am talking about how to avoid any "checking" and make it all automatic, make it all happen right on your cabinet from within MAME (frontend), without using another computer, internet browser or even keyboard.

Imagine whenever you turn on your cabinet and start some game you are able to see all the current hi-scores from the whole community right there in the game itself, just like you can see your own records now. It would be like everyone is playing one a single "public machine", and just as if you walked into actual arcade there will always be possibility someone have beaten your record or set new hi-score while your were away.

 

[spoot]

My boredom so-far today produced this...........

Is it just the interface or is there something behind ?
[/quote]

Cross-platform front-end with database driven multithreaded SSL engine for the server.  But I'm way lit off booze atm....and it's time to watch Aliens HD louder than is sensible.   

[Hoopz]

I would be much more interested in a system that generates game lists based on 'what's popular' among people participating...

something parses log files, or run time instances, or whatever to determine what games i've played, sends that play count to a server, then spits back out a list file for my front end (hyperspin, mala, maximus, atmoic, flat xml, whatever) of the popular games this week, month, etc. Maybe even other lists like 'Games played by less than 3 people' or something.

That way I'd always have a list of new games to try.

It's been awhile since I followed the updates, but I think GameEx does that.

[torino]

My main problem with this,  is that i am not very good at video games   Meaning that quickly I will just see an unreachable top 10 (more or less depending on the games) of people I don't know.

It would be nice to have a server that gather high scores from everybody, extract the scores (with hitotext for instance) and put it in an online database. Like that I would see that I am ranked 92 over 200 people at donkey kong for instance. I would keep my local hiscore.  It would also be possible to have ranking by countries or access this ranking from the frontend.

Well, a competition is supposed to be motivating.

So, you would rather hi-score tables in games themselves keep only your own records, but on the other hand you do like the idea to compare your scores with other people and monitor your ranking, however you're happy to keep this completely separate from your arcade cabinet as something you could check with another computer via web browser, right?

How about there is MAME option called "online" that can be enabled or disabled. When enabled MAME would import hi-scores from shared internet folder and while playing in this mode you would automatically participate in this global ranking system, and if disabled MAME would run off-line with your local hi-score files and your own records, as usual, how about that?


I think it's not so much about getting the 1st place, no one is really good at any game without investing much time in it, so there is no shame to be scoring even few million points less than the champion in that particular game, it just means the guy had been playing that game a lot. It's about participation and community, so no matter what you manage to score every game becomes more meaningful when there are people around to see it, and just getting your initials on some global public scoreboard could feel much more of an accomplishment than beating any of your own records.

[ptinolv]

I think it's not so much about getting the 1st place, no one is really good at any game without investing much time in it, so there is no shame to be scoring even few million points less than the champion in that particular game [...]

My point is that in games, hiscores ranking is limited to 10 maybe 20 initials. I just think it is nice to have a ranking bigger than this and for instance know if i am the 45th over 200 people. I don't care about being the 1st but it is nice to know where you stand when you have a lot of players. It is more motivating than seeing a gap of 10 millions points between me and the last score saved. (this is of course if there are a lot of users)

[...]however you're happy to keep this completely separate from your arcade cabinet as something you could check with another computer via web browser, right? [...]

The ideal would be an interface via the frontend that shows the ranking (like the hitotext support or statistics in GameEx).

It could also have both : Mame importing hi-score and a more global ranking available online, etc.

[leapinlew]

Build a custom compile of mame with modified roms which allow for more initials and automatic uploads to a website including the inp file

Good luck distributing the roms!

[torino]

What do you mean, what is it you dislike about having internet connection?

My Mame systems are closed systems. They do not require Microsoft updates, antivirus updates, etc. This means the system is more stable than a system that is constantly randomly adding updated software. If I allowed an internet connection, I would have to worry about malware, worms, viruses, etc.

If you're so worried what are you doing here, on the internet I mean? Unplug, quickly... unplug!!!

Being solely MAME system, not making any updates and not fluffing around the internet means there would be nothing to "open the door" for malware and viruses to come in, especially if you disable all the other internet/remote access background services. Plus, MAME would only need to open internet connection briefly, and to only one particular server, after you play some game, so unless the attack comes directly from our file server there is simply no other way your computer could be compromised.

Even if you had permanent 24/7 internet connection on that computer you would need someone specifically targeting your system for there to be anything to worry about, and even then simple firewall would be able to protect you. In any case I suggest you should keep your private documents, your bank accounts and everything important on your personal computer and worry about that, not MAME machine, also make backup and worry more about hard-drive failure than virtual bacteria eating your files, or better yet, don't worry, be happy.

[torino]

I think it's not so much about getting the 1st place, no one is really good at any game without investing much time in it, so there is no shame to be scoring even few million points less than the champion in that particular game [...]

My point is that in games, hiscores ranking is limited to 10 maybe 20 initials. I just think it is nice to have a ranking bigger than this and for instance know if i am the 45th over 200 people. I don't care about being the 1st but it is nice to know where you stand when you have a lot of players. It is more motivating than seeing a gap of 10 millions points between me and the last score saved. (this is of course if there are a lot of users)

[...]however you're happy to keep this completely separate from your arcade cabinet as something you could check with another computer via web browser, right? [...]

The ideal would be an interface via the frontend that shows the ranking (like the hitotext support or statistics in GameEx).

It could also have both : Mame importing hi-score and a more global ranking available online, etc.

I thought you would be discouraged to play if you were looking at someone else's initials and that you would not be motivated if all the scores were very high making it appear impossible to ever put your own initials on your own machine, or something like that.


Anyway, I completely agree, I'm just trying to keep it simple and what you're talking about requires some work, but merely sharing hi-score folder over the internet we could do right now, just two of us and maybe others will join. Let's play one game for a week and see how it works, how it feels. If it turns out like fun and if enough people end up participating then we can look at the ways how to extend and improve it, until then a forum like this can be used to facilitate tournament organisation, provide additional information and help with invitations and promotions.

It would be cool if this global ranking and scoreboard thing was officially supported by BYOAC, and perhaps Saint could even provide space for shared files on this server, or somehow incorporate scores, rankings and tournament timetables within the forum itself, which would surely increase interest in our tournament, but could work the other way around too, so both could potentially grow in popularity together.

[torino]

Today's challenge is... Donkey Kong (dkong).

But let me start from the beginning. I think I found better/easier solution with www.drivehq.com, which is basically a FTP server but this particular option uses WebDAV drive mapping feature which allows windows programs to work with files on the internet. My tests say this works very well and the best of all it does not require anyone else to install any additional software or open any new accounts. Whoever wants to participate and have a go at this "public machine" only needs to do this:

1.) Top menu of any folder: Tools->Map Network Drive... (Z:)

"http://www.drivehq.com/webdav/OnlineMAME"
Username: OnlineMAME / Password: letmeplay


2.) MAME .ini change: hiscore_directory       Z:\Hi-Score


That's it. Current scoreboard:


1st  010500   TOR
2nd  009800   ABC
3rd  007650
4th  006100
6th  005950


How high can you get?

[leapinlew]

If you're so worried what are you doing here, on the internet I mean? Unplug, quickly... unplug!!!

Just because you are naive about how viruses work doesn't mean we all are.

Being solely MAME system, not making any updates and not fluffing around the internet means there would be nothing to "open the door" for malware and viruses to come in, especially if you disable all the other internet/remote access background services. Plus, MAME would only need to open internet connection briefly, and to only one particular server, after you play some game, so unless the attack comes directly from our file server there is simply no other way your computer could be compromised.

Even if you had permanent 24/7 internet connection on that computer you would need someone specifically targeting your system for there to be anything to worry about, and even then simple firewall would be able to protect you. In any case I suggest you should keep your private documents, your bank accounts and everything important on your personal computer and worry about that, not MAME machine, also make backup and worry more about hard-drive failure than virtual bacteria eating your files, or better yet, don't worry, be happy.

You familiar with conficker or any of a number of different worms which penetrate your system from inside your network? This happens with no user interaction. If I plugged my Mame computer onto the same network as my internet, it would then be connected on the LAN and be exposed to other computers on the LAN. I would have to do all the maintenance I was referring to and for what? What is the purpose of having an internet connection on my Mame computer? Why would I do all this extra work? I have other computers/laptops that I would rather use to get on the internet.

The hardware I'm using to run my computers would choke if I had to run all the latest updates, antivirus, etc.

Furthermore, how many computes do you have hooked into your internet? I have dozens. So maybe Joe Everyman doesn't mind updating his only Mame computer so it can be connected to the internet, but I prefer the lower maintenance of a standalone system. If you want to connect your Mame computer to the internet, good for you. I won't try to convince you it's unsafe so do me a favor and quit trying to convince me it is safe.

[torino]

What is the purpose of having an internet connection on my Mame computer? Why would I do all this extra work? I have other computers/laptops that I would rather use to get on the internet.

You can use any computer you like, I have to use my laptop for this since all my MAME machine run DOS, at the moment. -- By the way, I forgot to mention this should be compatible across many platforms. Those instruction above are for WinXP, but any other OS, including Linux and MacOS, should be able to map that Network Drive via some control panel, or something.

Are you going to try it, the Donkey Kong? How high can you get?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

So here's an interesting proposal...

A .hi is just a copied section of the target platform's ram.. I wonder if it would be possible to write a properly malformed .hi to cause a buffer overflow in the target emulator's ram to run arbitrary code outside of the emulation platform.

[torino]

So here's an interesting proposal...

A .hi is just a copied section of the target platform's ram.. I wonder if it would be possible to write a properly malformed .hi to cause a buffer overflow in the target emulator's ram to run arbitrary code outside of the emulation platform.

Where is this paranoia coming from? Are you actually accusing me of potentially hiding some virus inside "dkong.hi", which could somehow trigger something, somewhere and do some bad things, for some strange reason? That's like accusing me of stealing your thoughts, it's craazy. -- Now, do you want your thoughts back? Gather some courage and have a go at Donkey Kong. How high can you get?


P.S.
Unless you beat my score in the next 5 hours I will eat your thoughts!!
 

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

So here's an interesting proposal...

A .hi is just a copied section of the target platform's ram.. I wonder if it would be possible to write a properly malformed .hi to cause a buffer overflow in the target emulator's ram to run arbitrary code outside of the emulation platform.

Where is this paranoia coming from? Are you actually accusing me of potentially hiding some virus inside "dkong.hi", which could somehow trigger something, somewhere and do some bad things, for some strange reason? That's like accusing me of stealing your thoughts, it's craazy. -- Now, do you want your thoughts back? Gather some courage and have a go at Donkey Kong. How high can you get?


P.S.
Unless you beat my score in the next 5 hours I will eat your thoughts!!
 

My thoughts are made of delicious nougat. I hope you choke. ^_^

I'm proposing  a purely theoretical question: Might there be an exploitable vector in mame's Z80 or MB884 emulator to jump out of the sandbox to the host system. As the file you're copying is vanishingly small, your payload would have to be pretty focused. Probably a system call to open a remote location (url) which would then exploit something else on the host system to actually get a meaningful payload.

[Gray_Area]

I don't think people are checking BYOAC competition scores on their phones at two in the morning.

I have no idea what are you talking about. I am talking about how to avoid any "checking" and make it all automatic, make it all happen right on your cabinet from within MAME (frontend), without using another computer, internet browser or even keyboard.

You're not understanding the inuendo. In plain terms, I don't think there's the right kind of interest. The comps here are a small-town-like thing, you know?

[torino]

My thoughts are made of delicious nougat. I hope you choke. ^_^

I'm proposing  a purely theoretical question: Might there be an exploitable vector in mame's Z80 or MB884 emulator to jump out of the sandbox to the host system. As the file you're copying is vanishingly small, your payload would have to be pretty focused. Probably a system call to open a remote location (url) which would then exploit something else on the host system to actually get a meaningful payload.

Seriously, that's quite off-topic and offending to my kindness and effort to popularize this marvellous and revolutionary new idea.

Did you actually try it? Did you sign in as "USA" on DK? One or few people have played Donkey Kong and someone played 1942, so there are two files on that server now. You can too play some other game and your MAME will automatically create a new file in that shared folder, so you can try it without using any of my files, you can put your own files there.

[torino]

In plain terms, I don't think there's the right kind of interest.

People enjoy their scoreboards on their Playstation and Xbox network, right? So, why wouldn't they enjoy similar "Arcade Network"? I think there would be interest in hundreds and thousands if people knew about it and there was official sponsor to give some credential to the whole thing.

I would expect every MAME player that submits scores to Twin Galaxies would prefer automatized option, it would also probably attract many more people to this global competition who are now simply lazy to submit their scores, which really is demanding and inconvenient, so I think there could be over thousand people ready to join right there. On the other hand this works just fine with only 5 or 10 people, try it, everything becomes more interesting and more "arcade-like". It's kind of when you having a free-play vs. inserting a coin, even if trivial that kind of thing can change the whole experience.

The comps here are a small-town-like, you know?

No, I'm sorry, what do you mean?

[Gray_Area]

.....if you're simply throwing the idea out there for all the world, then this topic is better suited to EE.

[leapinlew]

In plain terms, I don't think there's the right kind of interest.

People enjoy their scoreboards on their Playstation and Xbox network, right? So, why wouldn't they enjoy similar "Arcade Network"? I think there would be interest in hundreds and thousands if people knew about it and there was official sponsor to give some credential to the whole thing.

I would expect every MAME player that submits scores to Twin Galaxies would prefer automatized option, it would also probably attract many more people to this global competition who are now simply lazy to submit their scores, which really is demanding and inconvenient, so I think there could be over thousand people ready to join right there. On the other hand this works just fine with only 5 or 10 people, try it, everything becomes more interesting and more "arcade-like". It's kind of when you having a free-play vs. inserting a coin, even if trivial that kind of thing can change the whole experience.

The comps here are a small-town-like, you know?

No, I'm sorry, what do you mean?

Well quit talking and build it already.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

In plain terms, I don't think there's the right kind of interest.

People enjoy their scoreboards on their Playstation and Xbox network, right? So, why wouldn't they enjoy similar "Arcade Network"? I think there would be interest in hundreds and thousands if people knew about it and there was official sponsor to give some credential to the whole thing.

I would expect every MAME player that submits scores to Twin Galaxies would prefer automatized option, it would also probably attract many more people to this global competition who are now simply lazy to submit their scores, which really is demanding and inconvenient, so I think there could be over thousand people ready to join right there. On the other hand this works just fine with only 5 or 10 people, try it, everything becomes more interesting and more "arcade-like". It's kind of when you having a free-play vs. inserting a coin, even if trivial that kind of thing can change the whole experience.

The comps here are a small-town-like, you know?

No, I'm sorry, what do you mean?

Well quit talking and build it already.

There's nothing to build. All he's done is realize that if you share the 'hi' folder, then multiple users get the same highscore table, assuming there's no issues when two users try and re-write the file at the same time, and no one erases it out of malice.

[yotsuya]

There's nothing to build. All he's done is realize that if you share the 'hi' folder, then multiple users get the same highscore table, assuming there's no issues when two users try and re-write the file at the same time, and no one erases it out of malice.

...Or that someone's version of MAME doesn't change or corrupt the hi file, as I have seen happen when a new version is used...

[CheffoJeffo]

Seriously, that's quite off-topic and offending to my kindness and effort to popularize this marvellous and revolutionary new idea.

Sounds familiar ... I guess you are back to ignoring the realities that people quite rightly point out.

Let's see how you spiral out of control this time.

 

[Sjaak]

I like the idea. But using a shared folder where everyone can modify/delete the .hi files is a bad idea. Sure with a couple of users it will work, but you will get deadlock issues when more people start using it.

But again, the idea to centralize hi scores is great and with a bit of work you could:

• Have bigger hi score tables (top 100).
• Have daily, weekly, monthly hi score tables to make it easier to beat hi scores.
• Link the hi scores to an alias instead of just 3 characters.
• Store screenshots of the hi scores.

But you would need a couple of things to do that...(switching to software architect mode)

a website (obviously), hosting, some sort of database to store all scores and some sort of application programming interface to store the hi scores in the system from the client.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

And keep in mind, if I start my game before you write your new high score, my new scores will overwrite yours.

This would have to turn into some kind of SVN system that can parse the .hi files and make intelligent decisions about which scores to keep and which to drop.

And before any of that, we have to assume that someone other than Zeke actually cares.

[chillinwater]

Sounds familiar ... I guess you are back to ignoring the realities that people quite rightly point out.

Let's see how you spiral out of control this time.

 

I am very sorry if I am the troll here and will take my punishment but...maybe its time to give him a taste of his own medicine!

He already unravelled "spiralled out of control" over in the Hyperspin forums and quickly derailed that thread. (and then trashed the shared .hi files in his competitors program to prove his point)

"Seriously, that's quite off-topic and offending to my kindness and effort to popularize this marvellous and revolutionary new idea. "
This is not even his marvellous and revolutionary new idea.

He is who you think he is.....

I pray I'm wrong but if Im not... may we all have mercy on our souls.

Im starting to see a similar pattern to the "driverman" style.
search "driverman" in the byaoc and you'll see what I mean.

Heres one to get you started and watch the metamorphosis as he gets banned only to re-imerge as somthing else....time and again....all in one thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=107935.0
Check the join date and the last ban date in the thread above.

Dont feed and slooowwly back away.

Mods keep a finger on the "lock thread button"

I pray I'm wrong but if Im not... may we all have mercy on our souls.
Im starting to see a similar pattern to the "driverman" style.

You mean friendly neighbourhood Driver-man?

Driver-man, Driver-man, does whatever a driver can
Spins a code any size, catches bugs just like flies
Look out, here comes the Driver-man!

Is he strong? Listen bud, he's got radioactive blood
Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead
Hey, there! There goes the Driver-man!

In the chill of the night
At the scene of a crime
Like a streak of light
He arrives just in time!

Driver-man, Driver-man, friendly neighborhood Driver-man
Wealth and fame he's ignored, thrill & action is his reward
Look out, here comes the Driver-man!

[leapinlew]

Just great...

[CheffoJeffo]

Just great...

Invite ?

[leapinlew]

Just great...

Invite ?

[torino]

Sounds familiar ... I guess you are back to ignoring the realities that people quite rightly point out.

Let's see how you spiral out of control this time.

What are you talking about? What do you imagine I am trying to do here and what is wrong about it, what's your problem with it, what's your complaint about? -- You either like the idea and want to help realize it, or not. That's it, there is no argument. So even though many like the idea no one here seem interested enough to test it and actually do something, other than talk about it, and that's where I give up. End of story, now forget about it.

[torino]

And keep in mind, if I start my game before you write your new high score, my new scores will overwrite yours.

No, that's nonsense. Shared web-folder is up running, go ahead and test it.


1.) Top menu of any folder: Tools->Map Network Drive...

Drive Z: -> http://www.drivehq.com/webdav/OnlineMAME
Username: onlinemame / Password: letmeplay


2.) MAME .ini change: hiscore_directory       Z:\Hi-Score

[torino]

He already unravelled "spiralled out of control" over in the Hyperspin forums and quickly derailed that thread. (and then trashed the shared .hi files in his competitors program to prove his point)

Hahahaa! No. I simply put a different dkong.hi file in my local "Hi" folder in order to test HyperScore and see how it parses files, merges and syncs local folders with server. To my surprise I found out there was no any parsing, merging and syncing but the program was simply uploading and downloading .hi files from server to local folder and back by simply overwriting older files with new ones. There was also no cheat checking, file protection or account security, no any SQL database, nothing done on server side, nothing done on client side, but the guy somehow managed to convince people his program has all those features, so when I explained I can see exactly what his program is doing and what is not doing, that is actually not working properly and is just more complicated version of "shared web-folder", they deleted the whole thread. Strange, eh? And now you think I am the boogeyman for giving you equally capable but simpler solution which actually works? Marvellous!

[torino]

I like the idea. But using a shared folder where everyone can modify/delete the .hi files is a bad idea. Sure with a couple of users it will work, but you will get deadlock issues when more people start using it.

Why do you think there would be "deadlock" issues? The files are open for writing just briefly at the end of the game, so if two or more users happen to finish the same game in the same time some of them will experience a bit longer delay (MAME glitch) while waiting for others to finish their update first. That's all, there should not be any file corruption or anything else. The server is up and running, try it, test it.

In any case I agree, if this was to become popular there would need to be account security and proper file protection together with backup system in order to prevent illegal updates or deletion of the database even if only by accident. However, there is just so much we can do with free file sharing services. Ideally we need active server that can run scripts, and that's not free as far as I know, though Saint could possibly provide a shared folder on this server with no much fuss, together with limited access for already existing forum accounts.

So anyway, until someone comes along with free solution for a real server we are limited, but limited only security-wise, so if we were really interested we could start playing right now, then slowly improve it as/if interest grows, and even if we could not find proper free server we could still regulate and resolve all the issues, less securely though, by implementing it all on a client instead of server side.


I want to underline that "security" here has nothing to do with some potential risk for client computers, the risk here is only about keeping the database safe and clean, possibly monitor cheating. Sharing scoreboard and publishing your records is no higher risk than sharing on-line forum and posting your messages right here in this thread.

But again, the idea to centralize hi scores is great and with a bit of work you could:

• Have bigger hi score tables (top 100).
• Have daily, weekly, monthly hi score tables to make it easier to beat hi scores.
• Link the hi scores to an alias instead of just 3 characters.
• Store screenshots of the hi scores.

But you would need a couple of things to do that...(switching to software architect mode)

a website (obviously), hosting, some sort of database to store all scores and some sort of application programming interface to store the hi scores in the system from the client.

Yes, I can do all that, with proper server or even without it, but I can't test it alone, nor do I want to play with myself. We have a start, we have usable server and we can start playing right now. You find me 20 people interested to play and test it and I will incorporate everything else, deal?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

And keep in mind, if I start my game before you write your new high score, my new scores will overwrite yours.

No, that's nonsense. Shared web-folder is up running, go ahead and test it.


1.) Top menu of any folder: Tools->Map Network Drive...

Drive Z: -> http://www.drivehq.com/webdav/OnlineMAME
Username: onlinemame / Password: letmeplay


2.) MAME .ini change: hiscore_directory       Z:\Hi-Score

Mame only writes the .hi on exit.

9:00 user a starts a game and loads game.hi with a top score of 100.
9:01 user b starts a game and loads game.hi with a top score of 100.
9:10 user a scores 500 and exits the game, writing a new game.hi
9:15 user b's mame is unaware of the new game.hi and scores 300.
9:16 user b also scores 400 and exits. Mame Overwrites game.hi with the table containing user b's two scores
9:20 user c starts a game and never sees user a's score.   

[torino]

Mame only writes the .hi on exit.

9:00 user a starts a game and loads game.hi with a top score of 100.
9:01 user b starts a game and loads game.hi with a top score of 100.
9:10 user a scores 500 and exits the game, writing a new game.hi
9:15 user b's mame is unaware of the new game.hi and scores 300.
9:16 user b also scores 400 and exits. Mame Overwrites game.hi with the table containing user b's two scores
9:20 user c starts a game and never sees user a's score.  

That's actually true, I was wrong, I am sorry, and thank you. It seems I didn't properly test it the fist time around when it appeared MAME is already merging files at the right time, but it actually never loads the file again before writing a score, it reads only once at the start, or restart, and it writes only once when the game exits, as you said. So, unfortunately, this is kind of problem that requires MAME patching, or alternatively some external solution via front-end.

I would solve this problem by making special MAME build, which would later become necessary anyway. GAME STARTS: read .hi file after which MAME keeps it in memory as usual, until...  GAME ENDS: just before it's time to enter initials MAME reads .hi file again, which is the most recent update at this time and the file now gets locked for others, then MAME replaces scores in game memory and when you enter initials the game itself could merge your new score, as it normally does, but this time with the most recent ones, and finally then our MAME build should save to web-folder and unlock the file before continuing with emulation.

The solution is simply to always READ just before WRITE and have the file unavailable for others in the mean time. That's how we could "sync" without proper server, and this way score "merging" could hopefully stay a part of the game itself. Though if we want to expand those built-in game scoreboards we would end up using external parsing and merging anyway, and this means the final system would need HiToText employed either on client or server side. That's quite a bit to think about. Thanks again.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

GAME ENDS: just before it's time to enter initials MAME reads .hi file again, which is the most recent update at this time and the file now gets locked for others, then MAME replaces scores in game memory and when you enter initials the game itself could merge your new score, as it normally does, but this time with the most recent ones, and finally then our MAME build should save to web-folder and unlock the file before continuing with emulation.

The solution is simply to always READ just before WRITE and have the file unavailable for others in the mean time. That's how we could "sync" without proper server, and this way score "merging" could hopefully stay a part of the game itself. Though if we want to expand those built-in game scoreboards we would end up using external parsing and merging anyway, and this means the final system would need HiToText employed either on client or server side. That's quite a bit to think about. Thanks again.

MAME has no concept of when it's time to enter initials. What you're proposing is going to be a build of mame with a watchdog function monitoring the location in the emulated games ram where the the .hi is copied from and constantly checking that versus some external server for merger/updates.

Any update to that ram that happens outside of the normal time it's updated (during the end-game sequence of whatever your emulated games is) will have to happen BEFORE the player would be entering initials, otherwise the emulated game would not be able to rank the new score correctly (or reject it as a low score).

Then the question becomes does the emulated game draw it's 'top score' constantly referencing the same location in ram as where the .hi is copied from? From a fixed system with low ram, this would seem to be the more frugal way to do it, but if it doesn't you can't do anything about it without altering the ROM on a per-game basis. No one wants to play a system where the "High Score" you're trying to beat occasionally ends up to no longer be the high score by the time you beat it.

The fact that you missed such a simple file writing scheduling conflict doesn't speak well to your ability to actually make this work. This is not some new glorious concept, it's been possible for this to work in a controlled environment (where you manage the file writing issue with people rather than hardware) ever since .hi files were introduced. I though about the logistics of doing this on a home private network where multiple MAME machines existed several years ago. But, as many people have pointed out, no one seems to care about this working on as large a scale as this forum, much less the entire internet.

[leapinlew]

The fact that you missed such a simple file writing scheduling conflict doesn't speak well to your ability to actually make this work. This is not some new glorious concept, it's been possible for this to work in a controlled environment (where you manage the file writing issue with people rather than hardware) ever since .hi files were introduced. I though about the logistics of doing this on a home private network where multiple MAME machines existed several years ago. But, as many people have pointed out, no one seems to care about this working on as large a scale as this forum, much less the entire internet.

I couldn't agree more. Whats further frustrating is his inability to see other obvious roadblocks. Now he's suggesting a custom compiled version of Mame which I pointed out as a solution 5 days ago. 

I guess there is a small interest to see if this works, as it seems to crop up from time to time, but the effort to pull this off isn't worth the reward. A ton of coding and engineering just so you can have a larger pool of peoples initials.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Like I said, if you REALLY want to do this, the ideal solution is to not modify MAME. Most ideally it should be rather transparent to users like the proposed shared drive via WebDAV.. But for the back-end....

You could probably manage to use something similar to an  SVN system to collect .hi files. Your shared .hi file is not the only singular file; it's presented on a per-client basis. When the back-end detects a write to the WebDAV share, use the .hi parsing engine from projects like HitoText to parse the scores into a database and then dynamically re-build the .hi with the current hi-scores, and write that back to the WebDAV.

Doing it this way would allow you to 'bracket' the scores on a per-user basis so that high scores are more meaningful to the individual players....

I suck at Donkey Kong. It took me three weeks of trying every morning to get past the first damn level. I was thrilled to get a score higher than the default high score. I think it's wonderful that players can get such high scores in the game but honestly I don't care. What I MIGHT care about is comparing my hi-score to everyone with a score that's less than 2X my accounts current best (Or some other multiplier based as a function of the total number of high scores available on a particular game). Since we're writing parsed scores to a database on the back end, then I can compare scores being generated by my user account to others and have a custom .hi generated for me with scores of other individuals of a similar playing (and thus scoring) ability.

What this system does NOT provide is the ability for scores to be dynamically updated IN-GAME. You have to modify mame to do that.. but again if we're generating scores dynamically to begin with then you could make it optional on your user account to have the file updated every n-intervals and have a modified mame build that re-reads and re-patches ram at that given interval. I don't think most people care, but maybe some do. Either way with a properly designed back end it should accommodate both methods of updating.

I'm sure there are flaws in this system, and scenarios I've not though about. I think it's an interesting technical proposal but I don't have terribly much interest in doing it myself, nor would I be interested in participating. Either way I don't believe you can run such a system reliably on freely available services, thus being able to pay to provide the service becomes an issue, and as small as the community is, and even smaller those interested in a such a system, I just don't see it  happening.

[leapinlew]

I would solve this problem by making special MAME build

Do it already...

[CheffoJeffo]

Sounds familiar ... I guess you are back to ignoring the realities that people quite rightly point out.

Let's see how you spiral out of control this time.

What are you talking about? What do you imagine I am trying to do here and what is wrong about it, what's your problem with it, what's your complaint about? -- You either like the idea and want to help realize it, or not. That's it, there is no argument. So even though many like the idea no one here seem interested enough to test it and actually do something, other than talk about it, and that's where I give up. End of story, now forget about it.

I am talking about your penchant for dismissing objections that are legitimate and obvious to damned near everybody other than you. I am talking about how you perceive every objection as an attack and then behave like a petulant child.

It is my, and most other people's, experience that when you hit that wall, you spiral out of control, send us all PMs, ---smurfette---, whine and complain.

You re-register with different IDs and through various proxies because you lack both the courage and integrity to stand behind what you say.

But never actually DO anything.

That is what I am talking about.

[torino]

I am talking about your penchant for dismissing objections that are legitimate and obvious to damned near everybody other than you. I am talking about how you perceive every objection as an attack and then behave like a petulant child.

What objection? What's the argument?

You don't like the idea so we should all just stop talking about it?

What is your problem, what do you want me to do? This is simple discussion where people express their opinions, it's not a war and you don't have to participate. You either like the idea and want to help realize it, or not, there is nothing to argue about, so why provoking me for no reason, kiddo?

But never actually DO anything.

Hahahaaa!! Do what?

What do you want me to do? What the hell do you want?

That is what I am talking about.

What? You said nothing, you're waving hands, I don't even know what are we supposed to be arguing about. You're just made empty provocation with no reason or explanation given. What do you want?

[torino]

I couldn't agree more. Whats further frustrating is his inability to see other obvious roadblocks. Now he's suggesting a custom compiled version of Mame which I pointed out as a solution 5 days ago. 

No, there are no any roadblocks. Your suggestion was about modifying game ROMs.


Why are you provoking  me, what did I do to you? What are we arguing about?

Why is simple discussion frustrating to you, why not just leave? What do you want?

I guess there is a small interest to see if this works, as it seems to crop up from time to time, but the effort to pull this off isn't worth the reward. A ton of coding and engineering just so you can have a larger pool of peoples initials.

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic, or are you just talking about people on this forum?

[CheffoJeffo]

Why are you provoking  me, what did I do to you?

Are you seriously asking this, after all of the crap that you have pulled here ... any pretty much everywhere ... with your tantrums, spam and ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- ?

 

[torino]

Why are you provoking  me, what did I do to you?

Are you seriously asking this, after all of the crap that you have pulled here ... any pretty much everywhere ... with your tantrums, spam and ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- ?

 

I think that means you don't like me. Sorry about that.

Sooooo, what can I do for you?

[leapinlew]

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested

No... I don't think they would. Do you presume to think they would be?

Oh... and I suggested you modify Mame.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Sooooo, what can I do for you?

[torino]

MAME has no concept of when it's time to enter initials. What you're proposing is going to be a build of mame with a watchdog function monitoring the location in the emulated games ram where the the .hi is copied from and constantly checking that versus some external server for merger/updates.

Yes, it would need to be _after initials are entered. Yes watchdog, to monitor scoreboard memory every frame (or every second), but talking to server would be only necessary when there has been actual change on local scoreboard, although read-only updates would be welcome at the beginning of each game, perhaps triggered by insert coin/start button action.

Any update to that ram that happens outside of the normal time it's updated (during the end-game sequence of whatever your emulated games is) will have to happen BEFORE the player would be entering initials, otherwise the emulated game would not be able to rank the new score correctly (or reject it as a low score).

Then the question becomes does the emulated game draw it's 'top score' constantly referencing the same location in ram as where the .hi is copied from?

Yes, that was not good idea. We need to do score merging on our own, and it has to be after initials are entered - when internal scoreboard gets updated, which is what our watchdog would be monitoring.

No one wants to play a system where the "High Score" you're trying to beat occasionally ends up to no longer be the high score by the time you beat it.

Isn't that kind of normal for internet scoreboard? How Playstation and Xbox scoreboards work regarding that issue? The alternative is to pull updates from server at some regular time interval during the game. It's all the same to me, what do you suggest?

The fact that you missed such a simple file writing scheduling conflict doesn't speak well to your ability to actually make this work.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

This is not some new glorious concept, it's been possible for this to work in a controlled environment (where you manage the file writing issue with people rather than hardware) ever since .hi files were introduced. I though about the logistics of doing this on a home private network where multiple MAME machines existed several years ago. But, as many people have pointed out, no one seems to care about this working on as large a scale as this forum, much less the entire internet.

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

[torino]

Die in a fire, sheesh!?

I don't know, I don't think I'm mortal.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Isn't that kind of normal for internet scoreboard? How Playstation and Xbox scoreboards work regarding that issue? The alternative is to pull updates from server at some regular time interval during the game. It's all the same to me, what do you suggest?

I have no clue. I don't use any of those systems.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Then prove us wrong.

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

No I don't. I might be wrong. Prove me as such. Again, I don't think you can do it.

I don't know, I don't think I'm mortal.

Awesome. you can enjoy it even longer!

[torino]

Like I said, if you REALLY want to do this, the ideal solution is to not modify MAME. Most ideally it should be rather transparent to users like the proposed shared drive via WebDAV.. But for the back-end....

You could probably manage to use something similar to an  SVN system to collect .hi files. Your shared .hi file is not the only singular file; it's presented on a per-client basis. When the back-end detects a write to the WebDAV share, use the .hi parsing engine from projects like HitoText to parse the scores into a database and then dynamically re-build the .hi with the current hi-scores, and write that back to the WebDAV.

Doing it this way would allow you to 'bracket' the scores on a per-user basis so that high scores are more meaningful to the individual players....

What this system does NOT provide is the ability for scores to be dynamically updated IN-GAME. You have to modify mame to do that.. but again if we're generating scores dynamically to begin with then you could make it optional on your user account to have the file updated every n-intervals and have a modified mame build that re-reads and re-patches ram at that given interval. I don't think most people care, but maybe some do. Either way with a properly designed back end it should accommodate both methods of updating.

Without embedding this in MAME we don't get "trigger events" when to make reads/writes and sync with the server and I think that's quite important advantage and very good reason to do it that way. I don't see there is any disadvantage to having special MAME build, or simply a patch, just like addition of hi-scores themselves comes as a patch. I would very much like to avoid background process doing any file access at some time intervals, especially during gameplay.

I'm sure there are flaws in this system, and scenarios I've not though about. I think it's an interesting technical proposal but I don't have terribly much interest in doing it myself, nor would I be interested in participating. Either way I don't believe you can run such a system reliably on freely available services, thus being able to pay to provide the service becomes an issue, and as small as the community is, and even smaller those interested in a such a system, I just don't see it  happening.

My system, whatever that is, would surely have minimum possible flaws and be the most optimal with given resources.

[CheffoJeffo]

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

Since it wouldn't meet requirements for submission and validation ... nope, they won't be interested. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Sooooo, what can I do for you?

 

[torino]

Then prove us wrong.

Sure, but what's the bet, what's at stake? I'll do everything if you can find 20 people willing to test it. I can also do individual parts of the project for less, so let's make a contract, tell me how many souls are you willing to sacrifice, how many test-slaves can you promise and what task would you like me to perform in return?

No I don't. I might be wrong. Prove me as such. Again, I don't think you can do it.

Well, Twin Galaxies just happen to be off-line, it's down for several days now. I sure want to ask them and eventually we should hear what some of them think, but what's about "prove me wrong" attitude? What's the point, what's the purpose of that? Can't we simply just talk and discover things together?

[torino]

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

Since it wouldn't meet requirements for submission and validation ... nope, they won't be interested. 

What do you mean? I am talking about MAME players, they only need to submit recorded input as a proof, no?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Like I said, if you REALLY want to do this, the ideal solution is to not modify MAME. Most ideally it should be rather transparent to users like the proposed shared drive via WebDAV.. But for the back-end....

You could probably manage to use something similar to an  SVN system to collect .hi files. Your shared .hi file is not the only singular file; it's presented on a per-client basis. When the back-end detects a write to the WebDAV share, use the .hi parsing engine from projects like HitoText to parse the scores into a database and then dynamically re-build the .hi with the current hi-scores, and write that back to the WebDAV.

Doing it this way would allow you to 'bracket' the scores on a per-user basis so that high scores are more meaningful to the individual players....

What this system does NOT provide is the ability for scores to be dynamically updated IN-GAME. You have to modify mame to do that.. but again if we're generating scores dynamically to begin with then you could make it optional on your user account to have the file updated every n-intervals and have a modified mame build that re-reads and re-patches ram at that given interval. I don't think most people care, but maybe some do. Either way with a properly designed back end it should accommodate both methods of updating.

Without embedding this in MAME we don't get "trigger events" when to make reads/writes and sync with the server and I think that's quite important advantage and very good reason to do it that way. I don't see there is any disadvantage to having special MAME build, or simply a patch, just like addition of hi-scores themselves comes as a patch. I would very much like to avoid background process doing any file access at some time intervals, especially during gameplay.

I'm sure there are flaws in this system, and scenarios I've not though about. I think it's an interesting technical proposal but I don't have terribly much interest in doing it myself, nor would I be interested in participating. Either way I don't believe you can run such a system reliably on freely available services, thus being able to pay to provide the service becomes an issue, and as small as the community is, and even smaller those interested in a such a system, I just don't see it  happening.

My system, whatever that is, would surely have minimum possible flaws and be the most optimal with given resources.

Did you even read what you are quoting?

[torino]

What do you mean? We generally agree and I just explained why I prefer one solution (internal) over the other (external). Is there anything else you want to add, maybe agree or disagree with something? Go ahead and tell us, I appreciate your input. Speak your mind, my friend.

[torino]

Here is an easy "external" solution...

Play off-line if you like, as usual, and connect to internet only when merging hi-scores, or alternatively transfer .hi files to another computer with internet connection and do the syncing with the server from the there. The program is simple batch script (.BAT) using HiToText utility to both parse and merge hi-scores. It also does removal of duplicate entries and regulates server file access to ensure no score will be lost. I'm lazy tester but this time I did test it quite a bit and it appears it works very well. Who would think you could program this thing with DOS .BAT script, eh? Anyway, this one is hard coded for Galaga, but it's quite possible to generalize it and make it work for all the other games supported by HiToText.

SYNC.BAT *** GALAGA ONLY ***

Code: [Select]

@echo off & SETLOCAL ENABLEDELAYEDEXPANSION
cls & echo Local init, server lock...
mkdir hi
rename z:\Hi-Score\galaga.hi galaga.tmp
echo. & echo File locked, downloading...
copy z:\Hi-Score\galaga.tmp hi\galaga.hi

echo. & echo Merging SERVER Hi-Scores...
FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%A IN ('HiToText -r ../hi/galaga') do (
SET /a IsDuplicate=0
FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%E IN ('HiToText -r ./hi/galaga') do (
if %%B==%%F (IF %%C==%%G SET /a IsDuplicate=1) )
IF !IsDuplicate!==0 HiToText -w ./hi/galaga %%A %%B "%%C"
)

echo. & echo Uploading back, unlocking...
copy hi\galaga.hi z:\Hi-Score\galaga.hi
echo. & echo  - SERVER UPDATE FINISHED - & echo.

echo. & echo Merging CLIENT Hi-Scores...
FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%A IN ('HiToText -r ./hi/galaga') do (
SET /a IsDuplicate=0
FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%E IN ('HiToText -r ../hi/galaga') do (
if %%B==%%F (IF %%C==%%G SET /a IsDuplicate=1) )
IF !IsDuplicate!==0 HiToText -w ../hi/galaga %%A %%B "%%C"
)

echo. & echo Cleaning up temporaries...
del z:\Hi-Score\galaga.tmp
del hi\galaga.hi & rmdir hi


How it works?

1.) Rename the server file (poor man locking)
2.) Copy server file to temporary local folder
3.) Merge client scores with server scores
4.) Upload back with correct name (unlock)
5.) Merge server scores with client scores
6.) Delete temporary client and server files

[severdhed]

i tried reading through this entire thread, but with all the bickering, it was tough to get through.  I set up a drop box account so i could sync hi scores between my two cabinets and my friend's cabinet. i don't need to see how much i suck compared to all of you, but i figured being able to sync these scores between these 3 cabinets would be nice.  i haven't had alot of time to test, but it seems to work ok.  i guess the only way it could be a problem is if we are both playing the same game at the same time...which probably will not happen very often. 

the other problem i see is that i have mala running as the windows shell, so drop box doesn't actually run, unless i exit mala and let explorer launch, then drop box runs and syncs the files.  i'm assuming this could be resolved by using a 3rd party utility to run dropbox as a service.   i'd love to have this working, but i am a little hesitant to have a really awesome game and set an awesome hi score, only to have it disappear because my friend was playing at the same time.

[torino]

I set up a drop box account so i could sync hi scores between my two cabinets and my friend's cabinet. i don't need to see how much i suck compared to all of you, but i figured being able to sync these scores between these 3 cabinets would be nice. 

I can help you make it work properly. Instead of dropbox you can use www.drivehq.com to set up shared web-folder, it's also free, but the advantage here is that only one person needs to open account and no one needs to install anything but map web folder as a network drive and from there on it's just the same as dropbox. You can use my drivehq account (see above) to try it out, there is already dkong, 1942 and galaga .hi files there.

i guess the only way it could be a problem is if we are both playing the same game at the same time...which probably will not happen very often. 

That's right, as cotmm68030 pointed out, but you can sort that problem as well with HiToText utility and .BAT script.

the other problem i see is that i have mala running as the windows shell, so drop box doesn't actually run, unless i exit mala and let explorer launch, then drop box runs and syncs the files.  i'm assuming this could be resolved by using a 3rd party utility to run dropbox as a service. 

You can handle all the initialization via .BAT script.

i'd love to have this working, but i am a little hesitant to have a really awesome game and set an awesome hi score, only to have it disappear because my friend was playing at the same time.

Only testing will tell for sure, but as far as I tested my proposed solution works very well. I can also extend that script to make backups in case something does go wrong.

[severdhed]

i tried with drivehq.com last night, set up an account and mapped the drives, it worked fine until rebooted. then it shows up as a disconnected network drive and makes me re-enter the password.  i couldn't get it to automatically remap the drive upon reboot, although i didn't mess with it very long last night.  i tried mapping the drive via batch file, but without explorer loading none of the startup processes run.  i'm not sure if i can use srvany to create a custom service to run the batch file to map the drive or not. 

how would I go about using the hitotext utility to eliminate the problem with two people running the same game at the same time?

[upprc04]

I think you can use the net use command to have network drives be persistent.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490717.aspx

Not sure how it works with explorer not loading.

[torino]

i tried with drivehq.com last night, set up an account and mapped the drives, it worked fine until rebooted. then it shows up as a disconnected network drive and makes me re-enter the password.  i couldn't get it to automatically remap the drive upon reboot, although i didn't mess with it very long last night.  i tried mapping the drive via batch file, but without explorer loading none of the startup processes run.

net use DRIVE: WEB_ADDRESS /user:USERNAME PASSWORD


For example to map my web-folder to Z: drive type this:

net use z: http://www.drivehq.com/webdav/OnlineMAME /user:OnlineMAME letmeplay


If you do not have "net" command I attached .zip file, also containing .BAT script and HiToText utility.

i'm not sure if i can use srvany to create a custom service to run the batch file to map the drive or not. 

I don't know what you call "service" but all you have to do is instead of starting up MaLa directly you start your .BAT file which first does all the initialization and then at the end calls MaLa and everything goes as usual from there.

Maybe you're talking about "when" and "how often" the scores will be synced with the server? I would not use any background process to make updates at some time intervals, rather you should be able to execute "SYNC.BAT" script from within your front-end, say triggered by starting and/'or exiting a game.

By the way, don't know about MaLa, but they say HyperSpin has ability to show hi-scores outside of the game, in the front-end itself, which is actually the original purpose for HiToText utility. 

how would I go about using the hitotext utility to eliminate the problem with two people running the same game at the same time?

HiToText have "-r" command to read (parse), and "-w" command to write (merge) scores, so when you execute something like this:


FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%A IN ('HiToText -r ../hi/galaga') do (
   SET /a IsDuplicate=0
   FOR /f "skip=1 tokens=1,2,3 delims=|" %%E IN ('HiToText -r ./hi/galaga') do (
      if %%B==%%F (IF %%C==%%G SET /a IsDuplicate=1) )
   IF !IsDuplicate!==0 HiToText -w ./hi/galaga %%A %%B "%%C"
)

...it reads client scores, one by one, compares them to server scores and if the entry does not already exist it inserts (merges) that client score with the rest of the server scores. In my original script file I do this both ways (step 3 and 5), which is unnecessary, but if you are ready to try it out I will write a better script, probably without locking of the server file during the syncing which is most likely not necessary either. There also are some quirks with file paths when using HiToText, so the directory structure is important, which I will explain once you are ready to try it out.

[severdhed]

i tried mapping the z: drive to my drivehq account, which works fine either manually (right-click, map drive) or via command line. (net use...both with and without the /persistent:yes switch) and no matter what, though when i reboot, it shows up as a disconnected drive and asks for a password when i double click on it.

i used the mala launcher plugin which will launch additional programs after mala loads, to launch a batch file with the net use command in, but it still doesn't seem to work.


as for what i call a "service" i mean a windows system service.  you can use srvany to create custom services, if you need an application to run as a service...this does not seem to work with batch files.

i then tried going back to drop box, and using the mala plugin to launch it, but it still doesn't seem to work consistently.  it seems to be an issue with dropbox and keeping multiple versions of files. (for instance, i have a client with two computers in two different buildings. monthly, they need to transfer 17 small files from one computer to the other for accounting purposes.  we used a batch file on each end to copy the 17 files from the original folder to the drop box, and one at the other end to copy from dropbox folder to the destination.  however there seemed to be a problem because when we copied the files into the drop box on pc1, you can see the files and the date and time they are created.  however if we do it again to overwrite them, it copies the files correctly, but the created time doesn't change.  even if we delete the files out of the drop box first, and then copy them in, it still doesn't change.  unless we delete them, wait about 30 seconds, then copy them...then they work.  i think the same thing is going on with the mame hi files.  they are being overwritten, but aren't changing properly.

i'm about to just give up on this...

as for that batch file to merge the hi scores, that looks complicated and coded for just galaga, would there be an easy way to have this work with every game, or would each game have to be hard coded in?

[torino]

i tried mapping the z: drive to my drivehq account, which works fine either manually (right-click, map drive) or via command line. (net use...both with and without the /persistent:yes switch) and no matter what, though when i reboot, it shows up as a disconnected drive and asks for a password when i double click on it.

Did you make some "INIT.BAT" script that contains a line like this: "net use z: http://www.drivehq.com/webdav/OnlineMAME /user:USERNAME PASSWORD", and placed it in your "Startup" folder so it executes upon Windows boot?

If that does not work it's because internet connection is not ready yet, but that's not a problem as we do not need to map that drive until we actually need to access files on the server with our "SYNC.BAT" script, so we can put "net" command there together with everything else.

i used the mala launcher plugin which will launch additional programs after mala loads, to launch a batch file with the net use command in, but it still doesn't seem to work.

Do you start MaLa by placing its shortcut in "Startup" folder so it launches upon boot? If so than again it's most likely too early for Windows to do it at the very beginning when network drivers are not yet fully initialized. This would affect dropbox just the same.

i'm about to just give up on this...

Hold on, we have not even started yet. All you need to do is find out if MaLa can run .BAT scripts either triggered by selecting, starting or exiting some game. That's it. If you can do that, then you have everything ready to go, and I'll do the rest.

as for that batch file to merge the hi scores, that looks complicated and coded for just galaga, would there be an easy way to have this work with every game, or would each game have to be hard coded in?

Code is ugly, but its meaning is simple, it's the easiest way to do it properly. The script can be extended to also work with every other game supported by HiToText, and I'll do that if you conclude you're happy with initial tests and how the system generally works.

[CheffoJeffo]

Do you think people submitting their scores to Twin Galaxies would not be interested, and many more who would publish their scores if it was simple and automatic?

Since it wouldn't meet requirements for submission and validation ... nope, they won't be interested. 

What do you mean? I am talking about MAME players, they only need to submit recorded input as a proof, no?

http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8772

 

[torino]

http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8772

 

Yes, submissions are complicated and tedious, which certainly does not attract and encourage people to participate, and that's exactly why I propose simpler and automated solution. So, my question to you is why do you think people would not prefer this simpler and automated submission process?

What does meeting current requirements have to do with my question? That's what makes is unattractive right now, it's not something users want or prefer, it's just the only option, so what in the world are you trying to say?

[Sjaak]

so what in the world are you trying to say?

He is answering your question.

[CheffoJeffo]

so what in the world are you trying to say?

He is answering your question.

This.

A custom driver-man build of MAME will simply not be accepted for TG submissions.

It is that simple.

 

[torino]

so what in the world are you trying to say?

He is answering your question.

You claim to understand?


QUESTION:
- Why would people not prefer simpler and automated submission?

ANSWER:
-  It wouldn't meet requirements for submission and validation.


He is talking about current requirements, which is exactly what I propose to change in order to make it simpler and automatic, so how can this nonsense and direct logical contradiction possibly be answer to my question? It makes sense as much as this:


QUESTION:
- Why would people not prefer cars over bicycles?

ANSWER:
- Because then they will not be able to pedal.

[Sjaak]

You asked:

they only need to submit recorded input as a proof, no?

[torino]

This...

Feeling bored and purposeless?

What can I do for you? What do you want?

[CheffoJeffo]

This...

Feeling bored and purposeless?

What can I do for you? What do you want?

Grow a brain ... or die in a fire ... either one works.

 

[torino]

You asked:

they only need to submit recorded input as a proof, no?

Yes, and that's true. What is your point? What are you trying to say and how does that answer my question about people preferring, or not, simper and automatic option?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

People trying for Twin Galaxy high scores are probably not going to want an automatic system as they are only allowed to submit a single 'try' file. if you make a mistake or do not score as high as you want to, you stop the record session by quitting the program and start a new attempt, dropping the old file...

And what does the .inp files that TG want have to do with the .hi files?

[torino]

People trying for Twin Galaxy high scores are probably not going to want an automatic system as they are only allowed to submit a single 'try' file. if you make a mistake or do not score as high as you want to, you stop the record session by quitting the program and start a new attempt, dropping the old file...

I am proposing different type of scoreboard, where people are allowed to submit any score they want and as many as they want, as often as they want. Look, submissions can either be automatized or not, and I am proposing it can. Now, you can't really be serious anyone would prefer wasting 15 minutes for a single submission if there was an option to do it all automatically in 5 seconds. We have computers for the love of drugs, they can do those boring, repetitive and tedious tasks for us, right?

And what does the .inp files that TG want have to do with the .hi files?

What makes you ask, what are you referring to?

[CheffoJeffo]

And what does the .inp files that TG want have to do with the .hi files?

What makes you ask, what are you referring to?

Which illustrates why everybody involved in this hobby knows that you are an idiot.

Next time read the page that I link to before you post. Save yourself the embarrassment.

[torino]

Which illustrates why everybody involved in this hobby knows that you are an idiot.

Next time read the page that I link to before you post. Save yourself the embarrassment.

You are an idiot, my little angry friend.

If you have something to say, then say it, stop making fun of yourself.


Now, can you explain what are you talking about? Can you articulate your point?

[CheffoJeffo]

Now, can you explain what are you talking about? Can you articulate your point?

That somebody who wishes to change the way hi scores are submitted and verified should probably understand how such scores are submitted and verified.

 

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8772

Ensure you are using the CORRECT TG Approved version of Wolfmame for your submissions. The most recent version will be in an Announcement notice in this forum, much like this Announcement.

1. All submissions MUST include the .INP and .WLF file! [Screenshots, while very welcome, are optional.] Failure to include either in your submission will invalidate your submission. [Though we usually try to email you and ask, in case you honestly forgot to archive the both. It happens, we're only human after all. This is also the part of where having a valid email address helps.]

5. All Mame Submissions are 1 Shot attempts! This means when you make a recording, your 1st attempt is what counts. If you think you sucked, or died too easily or any number of wonderful things, please note that you can simply hit Escape to stop recording and then choose to record again. This is due to the fact that unlike a VHS tape/DVD, we have no means to rewind an .INP file.. and even Fast Forwarding is a chore if you're 12th attempt is the one you completely dominate the world at, but it took 8 hours of playing in the recording to get to it.

.INP files really aren't something you'd want to 'sync' with other people, and .hi files are meaningless to TG.

[spoot]

torino,

I can only assume at this point that English is not your native language as you seem to not grasp what people are saying easily.  Please visit http://www.hookedonphonics.com/ and see if that helps you out.

[torino]

http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8772

Ensure you are using the CORRECT TG Approved version of Wolfmame for your submissions. The most recent version will be in an Announcement notice in this forum, much like this Announcement.

1. All submissions MUST include the .INP and .WLF file! [Screenshots, while very welcome, are optional.] Failure to include either in your submission will invalidate your submission. [Though we usually try to email you and ask, in case you honestly forgot to archive the both. It happens, we're only human after all. This is also the part of where having a valid email address helps.]

5. All Mame Submissions are 1 Shot attempts! This means when you make a recording, your 1st attempt is what counts. If you think you sucked, or died too easily or any number of wonderful things, please note that you can simply hit Escape to stop recording and then choose to record again. This is due to the fact that unlike a VHS tape/DVD, we have no means to rewind an .INP file.. and even Fast Forwarding is a chore if you're 12th attempt is the one you completely dominate the world at, but it took 8 hours of playing in the recording to get to it.

.INP files really aren't something you'd want to 'sync' with other people, and .hi files are meaningless to TG.

Who are you talking to? What are you arguing about? What's the disagreement?

I never said anything about "syncing" .inp files nor I said .hi files have meaning to TG.



All I am saying is that submission can be automatized. Do you agree or disagree?

[torino]

torino,

I can only assume at this point that English is not your native language as you seem to not grasp what people are saying easily.  Please visit http://www.hookedonphonics.com/ and see if that helps you out.

I say submission can be automatised.

That's what I am talking about. Do you agree or disagree?



Now, why are you still unable to put in writing and tell me what the hell are you talking about? What is it you imagine we are arguing, can use your English and describe where exactly we disagree about? Show me!

[torino]

Now, can you explain what are you talking about? Can you articulate your point?

That somebody who wishes to change the way hi scores are submitted and verified should probably understand how such scores are submitted and verified.

 

You still did not tell me what are we supposed to be arguing about.

Where do we disagree, exactly?


You are not saying anything, you just keep talking about ME.

I am simply saying submissions can be automatised, do you agree or disagree?

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I was going to explain what you are missing but I'm just getting tired of your inability to communicate and comprehend.

<clever picture of facepalm here>

[torino]

I was going to explain what you are missing but I'm just getting tired of your inability to communicate and comprehend.

<clever picture of facepalm here>

You were going to? And what the hell were you talking about so far then?

What is it I am missing? What are we arguing about, what's the disagreement?


You're mumbling. It's you who is unable to articulate your point or even answer the simplest question. You are arguing with me, yet you are refusing to to tell me what exactly do you disagree about. It's funny. -- Do you speak English? All I am saying is that submissions can be automatized. Do you agree or disagree?