Franken-panels Vs. Multi-Swaps

[D_Harris]

I've been thinking about the whole "Frankenpanel" thing and was wondering if those here had an option to quickly swap panels on their games would they have avoided the cluttered looking CPs they made in order to play the most games.

In other words if you could swap control panels within only say, 10 or 15 seconds would you have still bothered to cram everything onto one CP so you still wouldn't have to swap and deal with multiples?

These are my assessments:

    Franken-panel Pros:
A) Lower expense.
B) Quickest game transitions.
C) No need to store multiple panels.

    Multi-panels Pros:
A) Cleaner looking.
B) One can easily use original game CP layouts.
C) Unneeded controls won't get in the way during game play.

Edit: I intentionally omitted the work/time involved in making these as a factor under the assumption that any one of us would build whatever we each felt we needed between the two options.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Malenko]

what about those of us who made CPs with just the controls we need (mostly 2 sticks and 6 or 7 buttons per player)?

[amendonz]

how about option 3?

3 - 4 cabs 

[nox771]

I don't think it's really about reconfiguration time.  A good swappable CP system is just harder to build than a fixed frankenpanel setup. 

Swappable CPs need modular electronics (perhaps USB, but also consider lighting and such), and you also need to devise a physical attachment system that is strong enough for rigorous play but simple enough to swap easily.  I think people go with frankenpanels simply because they are easier to build.

[scofthe7seas]

Or... how about MULTIPLE Frankenpanels.

I wouldn't want multiple panels. Where do those extra ones even go? In a big pile next to the cabinet? I like my semi-frankenpanel. It's got a good selection of things so I don't have to worry about most games (No Tron stick.. but honestly, ---fudgesicle--- Tron.) I think as long as you plan well, and aim for aesthetics, you can have a good variety of things to play most games.
I really think that damned Tron stick is a key component to most frankenpanels!

[TheChairmanH2K]

if you could only have one cabinet and had to choose id go with swappable panels.  i think the options for controllers (ipac, keywiz, etc) have enough cost effective solutions for smaller swappable panels.  3 panels with minipacs or a similarly sized controller, for me, would be more cost effective than getting 2 cabs with an ipac2 or 4 each.  and from what ive seen of aloooot of peoples game rooms/dens on this site i have no doubt you all have the room to store a panel or two extra.  luckily for me i was able to get two empty cabs dirt cheap so i can divide up the game selection and therefore the controls and avoid a frankenpanel.  not that im against them exactly.  i also dont play alot of the games in arcades that lead to frankenpanels i.e. tron or driving games.  a trackball, spinner, joystick and some buttons will get me through just about everything thats not a fighter and the fighters are getting their own cab  

[drventure]

I don't really have space for two (or more) cabinets. Heck, to have one, I had to camouflage it.

Swappable panels sounds good but unless you build the cabinet such that it could store them, I doubt they'd get swapped out all that much.

But I tend to agree with the Frankenpanel/tron stick comment. I put one on mine. Almost never use it. I'd think a topfire u360 mod would be much more practical.

However, what's done is done. I just want to finish things up so I can get on to my next project (whatever that might be  )

[Nephasth]

i think the options for controllers (ipac, keywiz, etc) have enough cost effective solutions for smaller swappable panels.  3 panels with minipacs or a similarly sized controller, for me, would be more cost effective than getting 2 cabs with an ipac2 or 4 each.

Are you suggesting each of the 3 panels has its own minipac?

[TheChairmanH2K]

yes i am.  im sure you could do it another way with one *pac or *wiz and some kind of quick disconnect system but for me i think unplugging the usb cable, swapping the panel and plugging in the new one would be simpler.

[Donkbaca]

I love how threads go sideways. Typical thread progression:
Post 1 " which do you prefer? A or B?
Post 2 - I prefer c
Post 3 - I prefer d
Post 4 - I once dated a girl who had Ds, but she would wet the bed.


Anyhow I agree I think a torn stick is necessary for a frankenpanel.

If you are going to do swappable CPs, you just need one encoder, you wire it to serial connectors or cat 5, makes it easy to swap out

[DaveMMR]

I love how threads go sideways. Typical thread progression:
Post 1 " which do you prefer? A or B?
Post 2 - I prefer c
Post 3 - I prefer d
Post 4 - I once dated a girl who had Ds, but she would wet the bed.


Anyhow I agree I think a torn stick is necessary for a frankenpanel.

If you are going to do swappable CPs, you just need one encoder, you wire it to serial connectors or cat 5, makes it easy to swap out

I disagree Donblanka.  I wouldn't tolerate a girl who wets the bed unless she had double-D's.   

But in all seriousness, swappable is preferable in my book because I'm not a fan of crowded panels.  I was originally going that route but threw it out the window due to the extra work involved for minimal payoff (i.e. panels for a handful of specific games, at best).  So yeah, "Option C" as Malenko outlined.  I think two sticks, 6-7 buttons, a trackball and a spinner (no dedicated buttons for either) takes you a long way without looking overly complex*.

[* YMMV if you think the TB/Spinner is too much for a simple panel.]

[Corbo]

I prefer the clean look and swappable panels.  It's something I've been thinking about recently.  I agree that each panel should have a mini/ipac so that it's just a case of pulling 1 usb cable to swap out.

I'm holding off exploring further because I won't ever get my cab finished but I might go back and look into it in future.  In the meantime I have to plug an XBox controller in when I want to play robotron.

[Nephasth]

Swappable. Regardless of time it takes to swap panels. Even if you're going to have swappable panels, the main "joystick panel" will be used for the majority of gaming. If you want to play a trackball, spinner, or Gorf Stick ( ) game, I don't see what the big deal is to take a few minutes to get the panel swapped out. But I prefer going the single (or least amount of) interface(s) route, and have each panel connect/disconnect to/from the interface with a few Molex connectors. If you use U360s for one of the panels, that's more USB connections anyways (unless if you mount a USB hub to the panel(s) too, I guess), same with if you chose a USB trackball and/or spinner. Going with only a single (or least amount of) interface(s) helps keep costs down on the swappable panels.

[alfonzotan]

One of the joys of MAME is being able to flip from one entirely different game to another at a moment's notice.  Having a comprehensive control panel makes that effortless... but you'll never get EVERYTHING on one panel.  Even a really monstrous Frankenpanel can't accomodate a workable two-player control set plus (say) a Tron stick, a Star Wars yoke and a steering wheel.  Well, at least not without earning a special page on CrapMAME, I suppose.

I'm going to be adding a yoke panel that can swap out with my main (Franken) panel down the line, but it's obvious which of the two will get the most use.

[nick3092]

I built mine swappable.  I prefer to be able to recreate the control layouts as close to original as possible. 

I have a GP-Wiz mounted in the cab with two sets of 4 cat5 keystone jacks in the CP compartment.  Each panel is wired to a1.5' cat5 cable.  The panels are held in place with industrial strength Velcro.  I've never had a problem with them coming out on accident.  I also have a USB hub mounted below the cat5 jacks for plugging in my track ball, spinner, analog stick, etc...  Panels can easily be swapped out in under 30 seconds or less.

The only downside is storage of the panels.  I haven't figured that out yet.  Right now its just a large cardboard box on the side of my cab.

[Bender]

option E

Rotating panel, clean look, very quick change, all the controls you want!

[TheShanMan]

I built a swappable system and I really like it, however I rarely swap panels (largely because for most of the games I'd swap the panels for, I own the dedicated game). I like the fact that it looks more like a real arcade cabinet (i.e. only the needed controls) and how clean it looks, and I like the fact that if I ever want to play a trackball or spinner game I can do so after about 30 seconds of swapping.

But even without my dedicated games, I would be disinclined to swap unless I was REALLY in the mood for a particular game. Just bear that in mind. I think this is probably true for just about anyone who has a swappable system (just my suspicion). Even when I had just a handful of dedicated games the double joystick panel was in it 90% or more of the time.

[Malenko]

option E

Rotating panel, clean look, very quick change, all the controls you want!

at least 6 panels though, right?

[emphatic]

I NEVER swap from my 1 joystick, 4 action button, 1 start button panel to my 2 joystick, 4 action button each , 2 start button panel even. Thank God I only play JAMMA conversion games so I don't even have to consider swapping or anything more horrible to my cabs.

[TopJimmyCooks]

This problem has been solved, as far as I'm concerned.  P1 and P2 permanently available, with a swappable or leave it out center section.  My cab will have storage accessible from the front for the swap panels.  I will say I tend to leave the trackball panel in most of the time right now, but I think that will fade as the novelty of playing TB and spinner games fades. 

Swappable CP post
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[pinballwizard79]

Frankenpanels are cool if thought out well (in my book at least). I prefer em to modular panels but thats just me, do what YOU like 

Notice how the high score thread here doesnt have Tron, Defender, Stargate or DOT? Bummer... Also it must suck to be one of those guys stuck playing pacman with an 8 way.

If you want to play all the games go whatever route gives you what you want be it modular/swappable or a frankenpanel.

[D_Harris]

When I posed the original question I didn't really think about how others go about making their panels, so here is a set up I did for a couple of my friends.

One MiniPAC is all that is needed. The MiniPAC is enclosed in a small project box in between the PC and the control panel. It connects to the front of the control panel via a DB37 cable. This way any number of control panels can be built for use with it as long as a female DB37 connector is attached to the outside of the CP.

Now my set up, which is still unfinished, involves my two arcade(Williams) cabinets(Joust and Robotron) with monitor orientations covering vertical and horizontal respectively. And also my MAME pedestal near my PC.

The swing-down controls panel on these cabinets have been modified into two parts. The base and the control panel to. I can unlock it by pressing two buttons on the front corners of any of the five CP tops for it. This allows me to just swing the entire assembly down and swap before pushing it back up where it will lock automatically.(This is my "Quick-Swap" control panel system).

There is no need to manually connect anything because there are phosphor bronze contacts that come together whenever any of the control panels are dropped into place.

These same control panels(which I will build a special shelf for) fit into the MAME pedestal the same way.

Since I'm a classic gamer all games are covered since I don't play games with analog controls on MAME. (I have actual Pole Position, Millipede, Star Wars and Star Trek arcade games for that).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Xiaou2]

I dont think many people make the realization that if one wanted something like 6 swappable panels, thats pretty much going to take up another cabinet worth of space just to store them... especially if you want easy quick access (such as an open shelf system).

Then of course you also have to consider that there is going to be many duplicated parts.  10 times the amount of buttons, 4x the joysticks, and all kinds of other expenses.

 For me, its about convenience, not cost, not space, not even time of swapping.
Sawpping panels is sort of like changing your summer tires over for winter tires.  Its a pain in the butt that you would rather not do, if you didnt have to. 

 Except that with changing tires, its only once a year... and not every 2 games you play.

[TopJimmyCooks]

I am interested in the bronze pressure contacts - good way to swap.  Can you post any pictures of this?  Thanks.

[Nephasth]

I am interested in the bronze pressure contacts - good way to swap.  Can you post any pictures of this?  Thanks.

+1 Would love to see this.

[LeedsFan]

I prefer bartops because (1) they are cuter and (2) because I just do not have the space for a full size cab right now.

However if I had a full size cab with something like a 28" screen or larger then yes I would make a frankenpanel. It would be for two players only still with 6 or 7 buttons each but each player would have 2x sticks so Robotron could be played properly without reaching across to Players 2 stick. And also it means you could play two player Smash TV. Trackball, spinner and a dedicated 4 way would sit somewhere between the two sets of sticks/buttons. No flight sticks, steering wheels or any other such nonsense.

I see some of these huge 4-player cabs but I just don't see the point of a 4-player cab unless you play on it often enough. And how many people actually do? A handful of games every few months does not justify it.

[Spacejack]

each player would have 2x sticks so Robotron could be played properly without reaching across to Players 2 stick.

If I was playing Robotron on such a cab, I'd use P1 right stick and P2 left stick for a centered view. That would be an improvement on the only-two sticks-altogether layout (like mine now).

[Vigo]

Swappable are also nice for the reason that you don't need to invest in all your controls at once. I am using swappable, and have yet to get a racing and tron joystick panel setup. I'l get around to it sometime. I will also be building a hanging CP rack once I have that 3rd panel built.

Also, my quick disconnects made from old printer cables work great for me. 3 seconds of disconnecting and reconnecting. No biggie.

[Paul Olson]

It really depends on what is important to you. For me, having an accurate CP layout is the most important, so I went with modular. I didn't want 40 or more full CPs, so swappable didn't make too much sense for me.

I also don't swap panels all that often, but I don't actually use it all that often either. All of the dedicated games out in the garage usually take up my available time. It is nice to be able to play what I want with the actual controls when I have the time now.

I also don't see fast swapping as being all that important (although I can usually swap out the panels in less than a minute). When I first started playing on the cab, I thought it was great to flip through the games, but that wears off. I was rarely even finishing a game because I was always racing to see what is next.

I have had my Robotron setup on there for a couple of weeks now, and I like the fact that I am going to either play Robotron, or have to swap. I will usually play the game more, but if there is something else that I really want to play, then it is worth the effort to swap. Again, the effort is minimal. Being able to have 2 4" Wicos and two start buttons, and nothing else on the panel, is a great thing.

I think the people who expect instant gratification in MAME have not had a bunch of real games to mess with; there is always something that needs to be worked on!

[Crazy Cooter]

There is no need to manually connect anything because there are phosphor bronze contacts that come together whenever any of the control panels are dropped into place.
These same control panels(which I will build a special shelf for) fit into the MAME pedestal the same way.

<--- Also requesting more info.

[D_Harris]

I am interested in the bronze pressure contacts - good way to swap.  Can you post any pictures of this?  Thanks.

+1 Would love to see this.

Well, as I mentioned it is still unfinished.

The contacts, which are the most complicated part of the project, have to be made from sheet stock because no one has them in the specific sizes I needed. I had to totally re-invent how to make and break the connections just for this project, which requires machining grooves into which the "L" shaped contacts fit and a thin rubber sheet across dimensionally stable plastic backings(Nylon) that has "V" shaped protrusions to make sure they mate perfectly every time the CP top is dropped into place.

Cutting out the 3/16" x 1" contact strips by hand is an extremely difficult and tedious process.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I find it funny that no one here has considered what would happen with a swappable panel and guests.  I personally would not want anyone touching the insides of my arcade machine I worked so hard on.

Sure, most of the time you will be there to swap it for them, but if you're like me and have a BBQ, you'd probably want to be able to actually leave your guests to attend for themselves with the machine, while you entertain outside or wherever else in the house you are needed.  Even now without a swappable panel, I still find my guests finding me and asking me how to load a game and such, even though the menu on the front end is pretty easy to use.  Imagine a swappable panel!

Just my 2 cents. :-)

D

[Vigo]

@DeLuSioNal: I agree that guests don't get that stuff. I just leave my panel on the 4 player setup and tell them to get used to only joystick games.  

The contacts, which are the most complicated part of the project, have to be made from sheet stock because no one has them in the specific sizes I needed. I had to totally re-invent how to make and break the connections just for this project, which requires machining grooves into which the "L" shaped contacts fit and a thin rubber sheet across dimensionally stable plastic backings(Nylon) that has "V" shaped protrusions to make sure they mate perfectly every time the CP top is dropped into place.

Cutting out the 3/16" x 1" contact strips by hand is an extremely difficult and tedious process.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I am interested in the your pressure contact method as well.  

Question though. It sounds like you are putting a lot of work hand designing and machining a contact assembly. Why can't you simply use spring loaded pogo pins and a flat contact board, like a fingerboard? The guides to properly fit the connection can then be added onto the CP itself.

A card edge connector could work well too. They make edge connectors that are forgiving if swung in at a light angle. The CP would just pop in like an old video game cartridge.  

[Gray_Area]

I have no problem with well-designed Fpanels, although a flight stick crosses the line for me. Two (or four sticks, dual-style), a trackball, a spinner. Perhaps a dedicated 4-way.

Unless you're really into analog flight stick arcade games, or rotary stick games, there's only one configuration that's missing. I'm working on that one (hint, hint).......

[Paul Olson]

I find it funny that no one here has considered what would happen with a swappable panel and guests.  I personally would not want anyone touching the insides of my arcade machine I worked so hard on.

Sure, most of the time you will be there to swap it for them, but if you're like me and have a BBQ, you'd probably want to be able to actually leave your guests to attend for themselves with the machine, while you entertain outside or wherever else in the house you are needed.  Even now without a swappable panel, I still find my guests finding me and asking me how to load a game and such, even though the menu on the front end is pretty easy to use.  Imagine a swappable panel!

Just my 2 cents. :-)

D

I don't even leave it as an option for most guests. Only one person has ever taken the time to learn how it all works, and he is the only one allowed to mess with it. The menu is set to match the CP layout (well it was, I haven't set that up since upgrading everything), so guests can play what is available. I really feel no obligation to give guests full access if they are not willing to at least learn how it works. I will usually leave a more generic layout when guests are over. If it is just me, I will get pretty specific - like swapping the 2 button panel out for the 1 button panel, or just leaving a stick and start buttons if playing Pacman or something. I tend to get a bit picky about the layouts. I have my Robotron layout now, and it is bugging me. I need to swap the middle start button panel for a blank, then add the side mount start buttons so it looks right. Unfortunately, I tend to get lazy, so that hasn't happened yet.

[UncleMame]

Having just built my first cab, I tinkered with the thoughts of a swappable panel, and voted against it, and am glad I did.  I feel that swapping out panels would be a pain with guests over, would risk damaging components and need more storage space.  My feeling was perhaps in the future, I would build a second cab for things not included in the first - Perhaps a small racing cab?

Perhaps this might work for you: I compromised on my build.  I built a wider cabinet to allow for a larger monitor(cab is 29" wide).  My CP has two Joys with 6 buttons each, a flush mounted TB in the center and a spinner up in the left upper corner and two admin buttons on each side at the top - So perhaps one might consider it a Franken-panel Jr ?  - However on the wider surface(38" wide) it spreads it out very nicely and does not look crowded)  Looking back on things I am glad I avoided the swapping panel idea and like my Franken-panel Jr.

Just my 2 cents.

[eds1275]

The problem I see with swappables is the USB dilemma. It's hit and miss! You set the controls to work a certain way, unplug your CP, plug in the other one and it won't work until you remap the keys. Of course with keyboard encoders this shouldn't be a biggie but with other peripherals it is - so perhaps a spinner, trackball, usb joystick like the u360 etc it might be a pain.

... then again there's always having everything connected with some sort of port like a printer port or cat5. Either way it's something to think about.

I like the idea of swappable control panels if you can get it working flawlessly and consistently. And the guest question??? Have themed game sessions. Trackball, shooter, classics etc. Makes choosing games easier as well if you have to narrow it down by available controls!

[Nephasth]

And the guest question??? Have themed game sessions. Trackball, shooter, classics etc. Makes choosing games easier as well if you have to narrow it down by available controls!

Totally agree with this. Most guests are blown away just by the fact that there is an arcade machine in your house. The majority of guests will be perfectly happy playing whatever the machine is set up for. Less time teaching controls and more time playing.

[D_Harris]

The problem I see with swappables is the USB dilemma. It's hit and miss! You set the controls to work a certain way, unplug your CP, plug in the other one and it won't work until you remap the keys. Of course with keyboard encoders this shouldn't be a biggie but with other peripherals it is - so perhaps a spinner, trackball, usb joystick like the u360 etc it might be a pain.

... then again there's always having everything connected with some sort of port like a printer port or cat5. Either way it's something to think about.

I like the idea of swappable control panels if you can get it working flawlessly and consistently. And the guest question??? Have themed game sessions. Trackball, shooter, classics etc. Makes choosing games easier as well if you have to narrow it down by available controls!

The idea of swapping controls panels is not really for guests. It's for the owner who cares about uncluttered Cps and original control layouts.

And I don't understand what you mean by having to remap the keys. You only have to keep the controller at it's default and just wire each control panel once the correct way.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[menace]

Haveing done all 3, I definitely settled on the swappable.  Sure its not for guests but nothing beats playing pole position with a wheel that spins and pedals down below.  Now I'm probably dating myself here but 7 years ago when I was going hardcore I built a spinning panel.

 http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=12683.0

This thing had a cool factor like no other but was an absolute nightmare if anyone besides me got in front of it.  I rebuilt the cabinet with swappable panels instead just using simple velcro to hold it down--no vapourware springy things, or fancy plugs--just wiring it into male and female harnesses that plug into the encoder (yes I did mean to sound like someones grandpa there.. )

In seven years I have yet to finish the tron panel so it goes to show how much it actually got needed...I mostly use the main panel, the steering wheels and the light guns--although my kids are a bit too young to hunt zombies...