Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons  (Read 37585 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« on: March 09, 2011, 09:17:07 am »
Full details of these new buttons on http://www.ultimarc.com/goldleaf.html

These are available in the store.


Hoopz

  • Don't brand me a troublemaker!
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5285
  • Last login:June 13, 2025, 09:18:32 pm
  • Intellivision Rocks!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 09:24:55 am »
 :drool

Great job Andy!

Vigo

  • the Scourage of Carpathia
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6417
  • Last login:June 25, 2025, 03:09:16 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 10:37:13 am »
Nice! I like the price as well. I think these are going to be my pushbutton of choice when I have project money again.

Dexter

  • Patriotism, the last refuge of the scoundrel. -- Irish, darnit!
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 975
  • Last login:February 01, 2024, 04:36:19 pm
  • "MAKE POVERTY HISTORY......."
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2011, 11:27:54 am »
Great product as usual Andy!

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2011, 12:47:43 pm »
Are these any different than the ones Deal Extreme is selling?
These are made specially to our design so the answer is definitely yes they are different but if you have a link I can compare them.

SavannahLion

  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5986
  • Last login:December 19, 2015, 02:28:15 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 01:15:55 pm »
Oddly enough, I can't get into the order page. ??? I'll check it from home later.

I don't see an option for the start buttons. Are these visually identical to the existing start buttons or is there an option to get the start buttons?

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2011, 02:01:24 pm »
I guess since these are new and don't appear to be adjustable, these questions may take some time to get answers to, but any idea how the button resistance, spring-back speed and overall travel distance compares to original leaf switch buttons?

They look nice and simple. I'm tempted to just pick up a couple dozen for the two panels I am working on now since the price is decent.

Also, just to be sure, these will fit 1-1/8" button holes, correct?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 03:17:42 pm by D_Harris »
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 03:00:19 pm »
Oddly enough, I can't get into the order page. ??? I'll check it from home later.

I don't see an option for the start buttons. Are these visually identical to the existing start buttons or is there an option to get the start buttons?

We dont have start buttons, you would need to use the micro-switch start buttons (which incidentally we now stock in black as well as white).

Samstag

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1378
  • Last login:December 16, 2016, 01:41:19 am
  • That's not a llama!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 03:22:24 pm »
Can you add a picture of the red buttons?  And any chance there will be a dark blue in the future?

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2011, 03:45:05 pm »
Can you add a picture of the red buttons?  And any chance there will be a dark blue in the future?
Yes dark blue will definitely be a future addition.
I have updated the picture on the website.

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2011, 03:55:21 pm »
I guess since these are new and don't appear to be adjustable, these questions may take some time to get answers to, but any idea how the button resistance, spring-back speed and overall travel distance compares to original leaf switch buttons?

They look nice and simple. I'm tempted to just pick up a couple dozen for the two panels I am working on now since the price is decent.

Also, just to be sure, these will fit 1-1/8" button holes, correct?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Travel is 3mm. Spring pressure 45 grams. I am not sure how you would measure spring-back speed but the mass of the moving part of the button is very low so should be fast despite the low spring pressure. Yes they fit standard 1 1/8 (28mm) hole.

NoBullMAME

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
  • Last login:April 11, 2011, 11:23:34 am
  • Author, The No Bull MAME Guide
    • No Bull MAME Guide Blog
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2011, 03:59:06 pm »
These totally look like the cheap Chinese knock-off, even being available only in light blue. However, the knock-offs look just like the real things to me (at least in photos), plus Andy's reputation is simply stellar, so I have no doubt about what he's saying.
Still, I'd love to see a comparison between these than the cheap stuff. If anyone orders one and has the time, please post something.

I'm sure they are made overseas (most everything is now), but if Andy made the right changes they could be great.
Author,The No Bull MAME Guide Intro priced at: $2.99

opt2not

  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6173
  • Last login:April 02, 2024, 07:42:30 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2011, 04:16:51 pm »
Nice one Andy!  I've been thinking about how to find japanese push-button equivalents in concave form for a while now.  I like the sanwa button's soft-ness, and short travel distance, but I do like the concave buttons better. Especially when connect to leaf-switches.

These totally look like the cheap Chinese knock-off, even being available only in light blue. However, the knock-offs look just like the real things to me
This is a weird statement. "Looks like knock-offs, but knock-offs look real...".  So you're saying these look real then? And what is the "real" you're talking about, the plunger design, or the internal switch?  I don't know what other "cheap-stuff" you're talking about, but as far as I've seen, there isn't any buttons out there that have integral minature gold-plated leaf switches that look like these.

Regardless, Andy's product are always of the highest-product-quality. He's a stickler for it, and you can tell by any of his wares.

The proper comparison would be how these feel against regular leaf-switch buttons, or japanese convex buttons, which is what this product is directly competing with.

**edit**  Ah, I've been made aware of what knock-offs you're talking about now.
I will now sit Foot-in-Mouth.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 04:45:55 pm by opt2not »

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2011, 05:27:59 pm »

 My only concern with these type of leafs, is that if you have to pretty much bottom out the switch to get activation, you constantly are going to get a shock from the impact.

 That wouldnt be the same as the 'Bouncing on Air' feeling of playing a game of Asteroids.
(for those who know better than to bottom out a leaf)

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2011, 05:44:23 pm »
I guess since these are new and don't appear to be adjustable, these questions may take some time to get answers to, but any idea how the button resistance, spring-back speed and overall travel distance compares to original leaf switch buttons?

They look nice and simple. I'm tempted to just pick up a couple dozen for the two panels I am working on now since the price is decent.

Also, just to be sure, these will fit 1-1/8" button holes, correct?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Travel is 3mm. Spring pressure 45 grams. I am not sure how you would measure spring-back speed but the mass of the moving part of the button is very low so should be fast despite the low spring pressure. Yes they fit standard 1 1/8 (28mm) hole.

Ok. The part that really confuses me is the following:

No Hysteresis. This is the difference in button depression for the contact close and open points. On these buttons the position is the same, resulting in maximum repeated actuation performance. On micro-switch buttons this "dead" distance can be up to 1.5 mm.

Now this is my basic understanding of button, whether leaf or switch...

A) There is the button travel.

B) There is the switch travel.

C) There is the contact travel.

The switch travel will be the same as the button travel if the switch is under tension from the button to begin with, but if not it will only travel at/with the end of the button's travel.

Now if the contacts are a part of the switch they move together with the full travel of the switch. If they are not one piece with the switch, then they will travel only at the last part of the switch travel. They cannot be stationary in order for them to work. But that appears to be what your summary is saying.

So am I correct in assuming that what you mean is that the "open" and "close" of the circuit occurs at the exact same part of the button/switch/contact travel? (I don't think that original leafs do that).

*** Either way, in order to compare the Goldleaf with original leafs without having them in hand is to find out A) what the button travel is for a original leaf, as well as B)what the "normal" range of "spring pressure" would be for the original leaf switches.(And this would probably vary greatly).  ;D

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

wweumina

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 222
  • Last login:August 30, 2022, 04:56:31 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2011, 10:06:19 pm »
Bugger, they look good.

Will you be offering minipac/ground harnesses?

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 05:23:15 am »
So am I correct in assuming that what you mean is that the "open" and "close" of the circuit occurs at the exact same part of the button/switch/contact travel? (I don't think that original leafs do that).


Thats exactly what I mean and an original leaf switch would do that. Thats why people like them, and also why people like the Sanwa switches, which are the closest to these, albeit the Sanwas have convex tops. I dont know whether the Sanwas use gold contacts.

The comment about "knock-offs" is strange. As far as I am aware a "knock-off" is an inferior copy of another product. I am not aware of any other supplier of this design of switch, ie a button with a concave top and integral switch with threaded fitting.

Turnarcades

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1973
  • Last login:May 13, 2017, 08:14:29 am
  • Craig @ Turnarcades
    • Turnarcades
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2011, 07:55:34 am »
It seems that even though there's obviously been a lot of focus on detail in the design and final product description by Andy for those who are very picky about their products, there's still a few pedants in the midst. You don't like it? Build your friggin own.

Ginsu Victim

  • Yeah, owning a MAME cab only leads to owning real ones. MAME just isn't good enough. It's a gateway drug.
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10092
  • Last login:June 28, 2025, 10:45:55 pm
  • Comanche, OK -- USA
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2011, 11:25:09 am »
I might need some of these for my next project. They look awesome.

Bludgeon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Last login:May 18, 2011, 07:51:19 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2011, 11:25:48 am »
Nice stuff.

I wonder if these are shallow enough to work in a Madcatz TE.  I don't think there's a way to get any other concave buttons in there before and these look like they could work.  I should try that.

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2011, 02:01:01 pm »
So am I correct in assuming that what you mean is that the "open" and "close" of the circuit occurs at the exact same part of the button/switch/contact travel? (I don't think that original leafs do that).


Thats exactly what I mean and an original leaf switch would do that.

Yeah, original leafs should do that, but don't always, because of bounce and perhaps spring-back of the shorter leaf on return.

So it's great that you've come out with another option.

By the way. For clarification, I re-worded what you wrote:

No Hysteresis. This is the difference in button height at the point the contacts come together and the point they depart. On these buttons this position is the same, resulting in maximum repeated actuation performance. On micro-switch buttons this "dead" distance can be up to 1.5 mm.

 ;D

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2011, 10:30:45 pm »
I would like to see inside one of these.
-Banned-

emphatic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
  • Last login:Yesterday at 04:54:49 pm
  • -"Suck it, Donny!" -"No, YOU suck it.... more".
    • Emphatic's Video Game Collection
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2011, 10:23:37 am »
I would like to see inside one of these.

+1. I'd love to know if the plunger could be changed to an COMPETITION/SANWA style one.

taylormadelv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 377
  • Last login:February 18, 2019, 05:46:59 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2011, 10:42:06 am »
I am very curious about these buttons. I would love to see/hear a video of these in operation and some more pics of the actual switches involved. Is it "easier" to push these buttons, "less finger pressure" to activate the switch? Just less travel? I would like to get some more info on these if/when possible.

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2011, 01:18:58 pm »
A typical microswitch button would have a spring pressure of 120-150 grams. These are 45 Grams.

This is what the contacts look like:


RandyT

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7014
  • Last login:July 25, 2025, 02:17:35 pm
  • Friends don't let friends hack keyboards.
    • GroovyGameGear.com
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2011, 03:39:45 pm »
A typical microswitch button would have a spring pressure of 120-150 grams.

I think it's important to define "typical" as used in this statement.  Current Suzo/HAPP buttons, as shipped from HAPP with stock E-Switch ~40g switches, actuate at a total of ~92 grams, which is significantly lower than the numbers stated.  Any other lower force microswitches used in the same button, will reduce that overall resistance by the amount of the difference in switch resistance.  Because there are so many different switch, and pushbutton spring combinations out there, there really is no such thing as a "typical microswitch button", and very, very few used for gaming will be in that high range.  For example, I can point to at least one production microswitch pushbutton with a total actuation force of only ~52g, but for reasons of decorum, won't in this thread.

Apologies for the interruption.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 04:05:52 pm by RandyT »

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2011, 08:04:08 pm »
Well thats strange because I just re-checked a button sourced from Suzo-Happ (made by I-L) and it came out at 98 grams without any switch fitted at all. With E-Switch 124 grams.


jimmy2x2x

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1215
  • Last login:December 19, 2018, 01:29:48 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2011, 08:15:03 pm »
Another fine looking product Andy, can't wait to try them out.

Nacimroc

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 303
  • Last login:October 20, 2015, 03:46:25 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2011, 08:46:26 pm »
What is the maximum debth of these. i.e. the max thickness of panel the can fit. Although the ultralux buttons are fine, the lock nut of the classic happ buttons and player 1 and 2 buttons only ever seem to grab a bit of 1 thread of the button when I install them on my 18mm panel with 5mm thick acrylic. 

I know you say, well use a thiner MDF, but mounting joysticks I prefer a thicker MDF. I could use my router to make the debth thinner, but I see it as just a design flaw. Most people doing this as a hobby will use the same thickness wood for the CP as the cab itself. So having to buy a thinner wood just to suit buttons that are too short is so frustrating.

(Its just something that always bugged me)

With that said, I do think these are great and will order a set to try. ;D ;D

RandyT

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7014
  • Last login:July 25, 2025, 02:17:35 pm
  • Friends don't let friends hack keyboards.
    • GroovyGameGear.com
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2011, 09:01:26 pm »
Well thats strange because I just re-checked a button sourced from Suzo-Happ (made by I-L) and it came out at 98 grams without any switch fitted at all. With E-Switch 124 grams.

How does one check actuation strength on a button with no switch in it?  By definition, there is no actuation sans the part that actuates.  It may be, however, that the I-L pushbuttons have a much heavier return spring than the standard Suzo/Happ branded buttons.  That's why I felt it was important to state which buttons you were getting those numbers from, rather than using the word "typical".  Thanks for clearing that up.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 11:24:46 pm by RandyT »

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2011, 11:23:07 pm »
Well, all I can say is that these are more like a hybrid than a typical classic leafswitch.

 It looks like a laptop key mechanism...  which heck, I like laptop keys for typing.. but, its nothing like an old leafswitch.

 With a true leafswitch, you get high fire rates from being able to bounce on the activation point with very little effort, and no momentum stoppage.

 Its easiest to represent this in a somewhat dirty way...

 When having intimate relations with a woman:

a) Bouncy Spring loaded Bed

  As you thrust and connect, the energy is transfered to her and she is forced into compressing the springs.  The springs then do all the work of returning her back to the original position.  Once her mass is in motion, its easy to keep a rapid pace of thrusts, timed to the spring return.

b) A two inch foam pad

  With the foam pad, it has limited absorbency and depth.  When thrusting, it pushes her past the maximum depth, slamming her backside into the floor.  The time it takes from her slamming to a complete stop.. and her slower return... means that its harder to maintain a speedy repeatable pace.


 A traditional leaf may take more activation force due to compressing the spring.  However, once the energy of the springs is at a set level... its easy to use the spring to set up a nice vibrational bounce pattern, with a hair trigger of depth.


 Andys leaf button, is more or less a modern equivalent alternative to a microswitch.  The difference being that its less noisy, and takes less activation force.

 Micros usually have a certain activation force, to keep players from accidentally hitting a button... as too sensitive a button could be a real nightmare with accidental activations.  It also helps in charging up the return spring for a faster reset.  However, the cost of this is player fatigue in rapidfire situations, as well as increased noise levels.

 Andys may have an advantage to the micros... but if anyone did a side by side 60 second speed test of a real leaf -vs- andys modified leaf, the differences would be "landslide" apparent.

Vigo

  • the Scourage of Carpathia
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6417
  • Last login:June 25, 2025, 03:09:16 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2011, 01:50:02 am »
Well, all I can say is that these are more like a hybrid than a typical classic leafswitch.

 It looks like a laptop key mechanism...  which heck, I like laptop keys for typing.. but, its nothing like an old leafswitch.

 With a true leafswitch, you get high fire rates from being able to bounce on the activation point with very little effort, and no momentum stoppage.

 Its easiest to represent this in a somewhat dirty way...

 When having intimate relations with a woman:

a) Bouncy Spring loaded Bed

  As you thrust and connect, the energy is transfered to her and she is forced into compressing the springs.  The springs then do all the work of returning her back to the original position.  Once her mass is in motion, its easy to keep a rapid pace of thrusts, timed to the spring return.

b) A two inch foam pad

  With the foam pad, it has limited absorbency and depth.  When thrusting, it pushes her past the maximum depth, slamming her backside into the floor.  The time it takes from her slamming to a complete stop.. and her slower return... means that its harder to maintain a speedy repeatable pace.


 A traditional leaf may take more activation force due to compressing the spring.  However, once the energy of the springs is at a set level... its easy to use the spring to set up a nice vibrational bounce pattern, with a hair trigger of depth.


 Andys leaf button, is more or less a modern equivalent alternative to a microswitch.  The difference being that its less noisy, and takes less activation force.

 Micros usually have a certain activation force, to keep players from accidentally hitting a button... as too sensitive a button could be a real nightmare with accidental activations.  It also helps in charging up the return spring for a faster reset.  However, the cost of this is player fatigue in rapidfire situations, as well as increased noise levels.

 Andys may have an advantage to the micros... but if anyone did a side by side 60 second speed test of a real leaf -vs- andys modified leaf, the differences would be "landslide" apparent.


Pff....thanks for the product review of a product you never tried.  ::)

I think most people care about button responsiveness much more that button mashing rate for general gaming. Of course there a few classics that are the speed exception, but I have a feeling the speed that these goldleaf switches would get would do okay against a maintained leaf and easily beat any unmaintained leaf.

With how much traditional leaf switches can lose their tension, tarnish, and take up more CP real estate, I think I wouldn't lose sleep over making the switch to simply avoid the general maintenance involved with a traditional leaf switch.  :dunno

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2011, 10:26:13 am »

The bed analogy is amusing but not really relevant. Any spring mechanism will have a natural frequency, including the bed. In the bed situation you can adjust the actuation frequency to match the resonant frequency of the bed. That is all good fun!
But playing a game the last thing you want is a resonant frequency as you are playing at all kinds of random pressing frequencies. What you need is a low sprung weight (as its called in car suspension design) to minimise the effects of any resonant frequency.
I am convinced that the main benefit of leaf switches is the lack of hysteresis, and these switches have that attribute.
I would be the first to admit they are not  revolutionary design, in fact the type of switch is similar to the well-respected Sanwa buttons but the physical shape is not the same as the Sanwa.

ark_ader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5645
  • Last login:March 02, 2019, 07:35:34 pm
  • I glow in the dark.
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2011, 03:41:37 pm »

The bed analogy is amusing but not really relevant. Any spring mechanism will have a natural frequency, including the bed. In the bed situation you can adjust the actuation frequency to match the resonant frequency of the bed. That is all good fun!
But playing a game the last thing you want is a resonant frequency as you are playing at all kinds of random pressing frequencies. What you need is a low sprung weight (as its called in car suspension design) to minimise the effects of any resonant frequency.
I am convinced that the main benefit of leaf switches is the lack of hysteresis, and these switches have that attribute.
I would be the first to admit they are not  revolutionary design, in fact the type of switch is similar to the well-respected Sanwa buttons but the physical shape is not the same as the Sanwa.

Can I replace these buttons with my X Arcade, and if so, will they be as good as traditional leaf buttons?

Better response for games like Asteroids and Star Castle and reduce the noise factor?
If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

kowal

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 434
  • Last login:September 17, 2023, 02:02:16 am
  • Suzo 4ever
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2011, 05:09:54 pm »
i use dynamometer
 real force (switch +spring button) is
80g on iL buttons +cherry switch
on eswitch somethings like 100g
sanwa 30g
seimitsu 50g
X-arcade 145g

eds1275

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2165
  • Last login:July 21, 2025, 05:34:15 pm
  • Rock and Roll!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2011, 01:14:07 pm »
These look pretty slick. I'll be picking some up to try when I order my other supplies for my cab.

If I get a bunch of different pushbuttons, would anyone care to listen to a recording of the different clicking sounds and volumes? I have the space and equipment to do it in a controlled environment. I won't be ordering anything for a bit until business picks up again but it's a project I have interest in doing.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2011, 12:26:00 am »

The bed analogy is amusing but not really relevant.

And absolutely bizarre, to boot. Besides, I thought X was a kung fu MF.

But anyways, yes, why don't you buy one and compare, X?
-Banned-

DNA Dan

  • Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Last login:September 02, 2017, 11:39:00 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2011, 01:37:26 am »
I just got one of these to try against several other buttons I recently purchased in trying to determine which ones I want to use in my cab. I must say, the action is lighter than an original leaf switch. I am impartial to a real leaf switch, however once I tried these I was quite impressed. I get what others are saying about a real leaf having more "energy" throwback to it. You can really "float" an original leaf switch. The buttons were very quiet compared to a microswitch, about the same or slightly louder than a real leaf switch. For me I'd like to see two things, first is the length isn't that long. I have them mounted in a piece of 3/4" plywood and the nut is only holding by a few threads. Second, I think what it needs is a stiffer spring. Although it can't replace the tension of the real deal, it just feels too light to me on the actuation. If I don't go for the real deal, this will be my choice for buttons. IMO it beats everything else I have tried. Great job Andy.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2011, 08:13:19 pm »
Quote
And absolutely bizarre, to boot. Besides, I thought X was a kung fu MF.

 Heheh.  All things physical are relative  :P

Quote
But anyways, yes, why don't you buy one and compare, X?

 You dont have to buy a tricycle and compare it to your bicycle, to know it wont operate the same way that you want / need.

 What Andy has done has more or less tried to solve the issues common with microswitches...
and for that, he has done fairly well.

 But in regards to replicating the true reason for having leaf buttons... he just does not get it.
There is a specific feel and feedback that his design will not be able to replicate... and will be inferior to a real leaf button in games that require a lot of rapidfire action.

 While its true, that Leafs are really only needed on a certain population of games... Those games play like crap without them.  So its nice to have at least one or two real leaf buttons to use for them.  Pretty much a necessity for those of us who knows the difference.

polaris

  • You're a genius! Sheer genius!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1405
  • Last login:May 21, 2012, 05:18:59 pm
  • veni vidi congai
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2011, 08:18:25 pm »
why is it when people release products with the word leaf in them , chumps kick off about them not being genuine leaf switches when nobody ever claimed they were :dunno 
got COLOR codes from projects, post them here

add stuff to the uk wiki section

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2011, 08:37:22 pm »
why is it when people release products with the word leaf in them , chumps kick off about them not being genuine leaf switches when nobody ever claimed they were :dunno 

To warn uninformed buyers who might think that they are leaf switches?

But like Xiaou2 said, it's good that Andy has taken the initiative to bring forth a product that at least partly addresses the response issues that matter to some of us.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

polaris

  • You're a genius! Sheer genius!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1405
  • Last login:May 21, 2012, 05:18:59 pm
  • veni vidi congai
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2011, 09:03:23 pm »
why is it when people release products with the word leaf in them , chumps kick off about them not being genuine leaf switches when nobody ever claimed they were :dunno 

To warn uninformed buyers who might think that they are leaf switches?



Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
if someone knows enough to want leaf switches, they're not gonna get confused ;)
got COLOR codes from projects, post them here

add stuff to the uk wiki section

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2011, 09:22:46 pm »
why is it when people release products with the word leaf in them , chumps kick off about them not being genuine leaf switches when nobody ever claimed they were :dunno 

To warn uninformed buyers who might think that they are leaf switches?



Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
if someone knows enough to want leaf switches, they're not gonna get confused ;)

That's not for you to say.

I'm an old school gamer who plays on leafs only(except for the Mario Bros. titles), and several days ago was tempted to pick up some of Andy's GoldLeaf offerings for a project, but after some research I don't think these would work for me.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2011, 04:36:08 am »
But in regards to replicating the true reason for having leaf buttons... he just does not get it.
There is a specific feel and feedback that his design will not be able to replicate... and will be inferior to a real leaf button in games that require a lot of rapidfire action.

 While its true, that Leafs are really only needed on a certain population of games... Those games play like crap without them.  So its nice to have at least one or two real leaf buttons to use for them.  Pretty much a necessity for those of us who knows the difference.


I would be interested in the results of a comparative test. To do this we would need to know which games you are referring to which originally had leaf switches and benefit from them.

Andy

wweumina

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 222
  • Last login:August 30, 2022, 04:56:31 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2011, 05:21:32 am »
But in regards to replicating the true reason for having leaf buttons... he just does not get it.
There is a specific feel and feedback that his design will not be able to replicate... and will be inferior to a real leaf button in games that require a lot of rapidfire action.

 While its true, that Leafs are really only needed on a certain population of games... Those games play like crap without them.  So its nice to have at least one or two real leaf buttons to use for them.  Pretty much a necessity for those of us who knows the difference.


I would be interested in the results of a comparative test. To do this we would need to know which games you are referring to which originally had leaf switches and benefit from them.

Andy

Is this the first time anyone has quoted Xiaou2 except for mockery?

Anyhow, about those harnesses?

Donkbaca

  • Our reptillian overlords would be pleased
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • Last login:May 09, 2012, 06:28:10 pm
    • Slim built MAME/Xbox cab
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2011, 09:49:51 am »
The hard part about a competitive teat would be finding a person who knows enough about leafs to make a good comparison, but isn't such a fanboy that they think leaf switches are the pinnacle of human technology


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vigo

  • the Scourage of Carpathia
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6417
  • Last login:June 25, 2025, 03:09:16 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2011, 11:03:10 am »
The hard part about a competitive teat would be finding a person who knows enough about leafs to make a good comparison, but isn't such a fanboy that they think leaf switches are the pinnacle of human technology


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A competitive teat?  :laugh2: I'm guessing that's the iPhone autofill at work.

Anyway, you're right, but I think no matter how a speed comparison is handled, someone would call foul. And if a wico leaf switch lost out to Andy's in a side by side speed comparison, the first thing that would happen is there is people would claim the leaf was probably not fine tuned enough, or the person pushing the leaf button did not know how to properly "float" the button.


Donkbaca

  • Our reptillian overlords would be pleased
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • Last login:May 09, 2012, 06:28:10 pm
    • Slim built MAME/Xbox cab
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2011, 11:15:12 am »
yes you could send some to pbj and donkbaca and we can compare our teats.... er tests. and give an unbiased, highly opinionated, pretty much worthless review.  But it would be unbiased.

or someone could, oh I don't know, shell out a couple bucks and buy some to test.

All that being said, its better and more fun to theoretically pretend and test them in our head, and then ---smurfette--- about differences.

DNA Dan

  • Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Last login:September 02, 2017, 11:39:00 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2011, 11:32:30 am »
Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here.... Skip that morning latte and buy a button to try. No amount of measurements, subjective comments or scientific rationale is going to conclude anything. I agree with others, it doesn't feel the same as a real-leaf switch. However, I would take these any day over the alternative; clickity-clickity dead-space microswitches.

To re-focus my previous unscientific comments regarding the product, these aren't just "non-clicking microswitches". They feel differently. It's almost like a real leaf switch but with a lot less activation force and not as much "transferred energy". Hard to explain really. I think for the purists, do yourself a favor and just hunt down some leaf switches. For those looking for an arcade feel prior to the '90s "fighter" craze, this is the product for you.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2011, 11:32:40 am »
Heh, well, originally as an arcade manager years ago... I HATED leafs with a passion.
 
 They got out of adjustment too often, needed cleaning often, and I felt they were inferior to micros.

 It wasnt till much later after I left the arcade industry, did I realize two very important things about leafs.

1) how to use them properly.
2) their advantages in certain games.

 And now I cringe every time I think about things like how I swapped out a leaf button on a Galaga with a Micro.

 Micros have their place.  Especially for fighting games, which require absolute precision... and not a lot of repetitive non-stop firing.  But for a game like Galaga, where you are pretty much firing the entire time, Micros fatigue your hands really quickly.

 But as said, its not just about fatigue.  Its about feel and speed of BOTH activation and recovery.  Leafs can bounce on the activation and de-activation point, on a hair trigger... with only a tiny bit of vibration needed.  You dont have to bottom out a leaf to do this.  If you do bottom out a button, it takes longer to recover due to the shock of the collision, as well as stopped momentum.  This knowledge is imperative to operating a leaf correctly.. and getting the actual benefit from them.

 Games off the tip of my brain which require fast and or non-stop firing:


 Asteriods Deluxe

 Tempest

 Joust (flapping)

 Satans Hollow (when entire lines of enemies dive-bomb you all at once, esp with 1 or more powerup levels.  You can get 3 guns total, for very fast fire rates)

 Galaga

 Gyruss (not too fast, but fatiguing. Similar to galaga in fatigue & rates)


 Some of these games have a firing speed limit.. however, if you hit something, the fire rate goes up.  If you hit a ship in Galaga, you can fire immediately after it.. where as if you missed, the next shot would be slightly delayed.  

 Similarly, Asteriods Deluxe has like a 5 bullet max on screen... however, you can fire them all in less than a second, with spacing of about 4 pixels or so apart... AND, if a set of asteriods are right on top of you, and you are killing them off repeatedly... your fire rate is insanely high and lightning fast.

 Other games are on the list out of mere fatigue for extended periods of time.

 And finally, this is actually a small list.  There are countless more games, such as horizontal and vertical shooters that do not have autofire... which are best played with a leaf button... mostly for fatigue... but some for rapid fire rate as well.

 
 Bottom line = Bouncing lightly on contacts is far less fatiguing, as well as being faster... than bottoming out a button repeatedly (even if that button takes less activation force than stock micros).

 This can easily be proven with a simple fire-rate tester program.  The program would start tracking the time as soon as the first button pressed... and the user would be required to push the button repeatedly as fast as possible for a time of like 60 seconds.  At the end, the results of both number of shots fired, and average shots per time unit would be displayed, and could be compared.

  
 My goal isnt to diss products.  Its to bring awareness to those who would otherwise not understand the reasoning for specially designed controllers... and to have parts manufacturers reproduce parts that better replicate them so that we may continue to enjoy the classic games, as they were intended to be played / enjoyed.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 11:37:51 am by Xiaou2 »

Donkbaca

  • Our reptillian overlords would be pleased
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • Last login:May 09, 2012, 06:28:10 pm
    • Slim built MAME/Xbox cab
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2011, 11:49:39 am »
I think X2 gets a bit of a bad rap, he is just really, really passionate about controls, he does make some good points and offers up some good advice and valid points, even though he can be over zealous and grating at times.

I don't think Andy ever calimed these were better than traditional leaf switches, or that people should swap their old leafs for these, so a comparison is kind of moot.  It looks to me like its more like a concave Sanwa button.  In either case, its a difference from the microswitch scene, someone should review them on their own merit, and compare it to what else is available, instead of comparing them to some perfectly tuned, idealized leaf switch that people can't really buy off the shelf.

VanillaGorilla

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 480
  • Last login:March 08, 2019, 10:23:51 pm
  • Coin detected in pocket
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2011, 12:57:16 pm »
Quote
IMO it beats everything else I have tried.

Have you tried the Rollie style leaf switches? They do require more room, but have great 'float'! :P


http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=109040.msg1169701#msg1169701

How do these compare to Andy's new gold leaf buttons?

DNA Dan

  • Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Last login:September 02, 2017, 11:39:00 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2011, 01:10:26 pm »
I was hoping to get by without naming names of things I have tried. So far I have tried about a dozen different styles of microswitches and "leaf" versions. Rollie is the only one I didn't try because I did not see them on the website anymore. Are these still available. One thing I have noticed with the leafs repros that I have tried, is that I prefer the centered actuator (old style button), that is to say there is only one shaft connected to the button and it hits the leaf. What I don't care for are the microswitch buttons that have been converted, which is what the Rollie looks like. Believe it or not, I can feel this difference in the button feel itself, leaf or microswitch aside. Any source where I can pickup the Rollie to try?

VanillaGorilla

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 480
  • Last login:March 08, 2019, 10:23:51 pm
  • Coin detected in pocket
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2011, 02:30:39 pm »
I think I am going to try a few of these out. I haven't had the pleasure of ordering from Andy yet, I've gotten my ultimarc prods from Divemaster so far. I am gonna throw a few bucks his way and see whats what.

Any source where I can pickup the Rollie to try?

Arcadeshop.de carries these
Bryan @ paradisearcade.com told me he will be stocking these again in the next week or 2.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2011, 09:01:31 pm »
Quote
What I don't care for are the microswitch buttons that have been converted, which is what the Rollie looks like.

 This is yet another thing that not everyone understands.  The original leaf buttons, start out wide on top, but narrow to a thin centered shaft.  

 The difference is that happs large hollow buttons tend to amplify the sound of the button, often making an echoing spring noise.  Also, since the happs are locked in place at the sides loosely, the button can rock a bit from side to side... resulting in a bit of sloppy 'play'.   The Leafs have very little space between the center shaft and the button shell, so theres less side to side slop.

 Even when bottoming out a leaf button, the sound is much reduced compared to the microswitch buttons.  With reduced slop and less noise, they are much better.



« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 09:19:09 pm by Xiaou2 »

RandyT

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7014
  • Last login:July 25, 2025, 02:17:35 pm
  • Friends don't let friends hack keyboards.
    • GroovyGameGear.com
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2011, 10:02:03 pm »
Quote
What I don't care for are the microswitch buttons that have been converted, which is what the Rollie looks like.

 This is yet another thing that not everyone understands.  The original leaf buttons, start out wide on top, but narrow to a thin centered shaft.  

 The difference is that happs large hollow buttons tend to amplify the sound of the button, often making an echoing spring noise.  Also, since the happs are locked in place at the sides loosely, the button can rock a bit from side to side... resulting in a bit of sloppy 'play'.   The Leafs have very little space between the center shaft and the button shell, so theres less side to side slop.

 Even when bottoming out a leaf button, the sound is much reduced compared to the microswitch buttons.  With reduced slop and less noise, they are much better.


Replied to here.

usedelectronics

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 358
  • Last login:January 06, 2019, 02:57:37 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2011, 04:03:14 am »
I would be happy to throw any of these buttons on the machine my lab and supply "actual" performance data.
I.E.
Button "return spring" resistance
Off Axis "Play"
Switch actuation force
Total combined button/switch actuation force and distance
Return travel to switch disengagement distance
I can even provide some "dynamic" data by cycling them at high rates and monitoring the switch with a scope.

I love the sheer number of options Andy/Randy/Etc have provided, and believe personal preference has more to do with the choice of switch type rather than the switches themselves. However with some "real data" we may be able to put some of the wild rumors to rest.



jimmy2x2x

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1215
  • Last login:December 19, 2018, 01:29:48 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2011, 04:17:53 am »
I would be happy to throw any of these buttons on the machine my lab and supply "actual" performance data.
I.E.
Button "return spring" resistance
Off Axis "Play"
Switch actuation force
Total combined button/switch actuation force and distance
Return travel to switch disengagement distance
I can even provide some "dynamic" data by cycling them at high rates and monitoring the switch with a scope.

I love the sheer number of options Andy/Randy/Etc have provided, and believe personal preference has more to do with the choice of switch type rather than the switches themselves. However with some "real data" we may be able to put some of the wild rumors to rest.




This is what I want to see, some independent testing with hard data - not opinions.  If you can come up with a decent test scenario I'm sure we can whip up a few pounds for a test fund ;)


D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2011, 05:12:30 am »
Heh, well, originally as an arcade manager years ago... I HATED leafs with a passion.
 
 They got out of adjustment too often, needed cleaning often, and I felt they were inferior to micros.

 It wasnt till much later after I left the arcade industry, did I realize two very important things about leafs.

1) how to use them properly.
2) their advantages in certain games.

How about how to clean them properly?
Quote

 And now I cringe every time I think about things like how I swapped out a leaf button on a Galaga with a Micro.

 But as said, its not just about fatigue.  Its about feel and speed of BOTH activation and recovery.  Leafs can bounce on the activation and de-activation point, on a hair trigger... with only a tiny bit of vibration needed.  You dont have to bottom out a leaf to do this.  If you do bottom out a button, it takes longer to recover due to the shock of the collision, as well as stopped momentum.  This knowledge is imperative to operating a leaf correctly.. and getting the actual benefit from them.

It takes longer to recover because you have to use more force and your fingers have to travel a greater distance back in order to achieve de-activation. This is why "No Hysteresis" in Andy's post is so important. It would be interesting to compare that one quality with leafs.
Quote

 Games off the tip of my brain which require fast and or non-stop firing:


 Asteriods Deluxe

 Tempest

Tempest has auto firing up to an 8 shot burst.
Quote


 Joust (flapping)

 Satans Hollow (when entire lines of enemies dive-bomb you all at once, esp with 1 or more powerup levels.  You can get 3 guns total, for very fast fire rates)

Actually the firing rate doesn't change. But three shots at a time allow for more hits. And since you fire via a trigger on the joystick, leaf switches are not a factor for this game.
Quote

 Galaga

 Gyruss (not too fast, but fatiguing. Similar to galaga in fatigue & rates)

Not a good example as, let's say, StarGate.
Quote

 Some of these games have a firing speed limit.. however, if you hit something, the fire rate goes up.  If you hit a ship in Galaga, you can fire immediately after it.. where as if you missed, the next shot would be slightly delayed.  

Galaga is a "single shot" at a time game. The shot has to leave the screen before the next one can be launched. Now Millipede, which also allows only a single shot at a time is a full auto fire game.
Quote

 Similarly, Asteriods Deluxe has like a 5 bullet max on screen... however, you can fire them all in less than a second, with spacing of about 4 pixels or so apart... AND, if a set of asteriods are right on top of you, and you are killing them off repeatedly... your fire rate is insanely high and lightning fast.

Asteroids Deluxe allows four shots on the screen at once, like Asteroids does.
Quote

 Bottom line = Bouncing lightly on contacts is far less fatiguing, as well as being faster... than bottoming out a button repeatedly (even if that button takes less activation force than stock micros).

 This can easily be proven with a simple fire-rate tester program.  The program would start tracking the time as soon as the first button pressed... and the user would be required to push the button repeatedly as fast as possible for a time of like 60 seconds.  At the end, the results of both number of shots fired, and average shots per time unit would be displayed, and could be compared.

These are the relevant qualities to test:

Travel distance to activation
Travel pressure to activation
Travel distance to de-activation
Travel pressure to de-activation

That's really it.

The speed of the travel back is not a factor because even on a micro switch I don't believe that anyone can pull their finger/s back faster than the button returns. And the feel or audio of the "click" for buttons that exhibit this actually have no bearing on firing rate and finger fatigue.

But I'd also like to point out that the greater the pressure for activation, the greater the pressure of the button to return. There is an inverse relationship.

Since there is so much variablility, as well, as individual preferences involved, only real world testing would really mean a lot. (And then, there is still personal preference). As funny as it sounds, real world testing may not be scientific, but it is "more accurate".

I think that Andy may be able to claim that his new buttons come close to leafs in feel without having to mount extra hardware to the underside of the control panel.

(And for those who don't know, Bob Roberts makes and sells his own leaf switches).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 06:02:56 am by D_Harris »
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2011, 10:42:27 pm »
Galaxian is one shot at a time. Galaga is two, and somewhat qualifies.

Asteroids Deluxe might qualify, because there can be a lot of stuff on the screen at times.

Gyruss could benefit a little from this, but not a great deal.

Joust qualifies because faster flapping means faster rising.

Defender and Stargate are so much a matter of accuracy that the only help I can see from faster firing is that you might cover more vertical area in a volley.

I find Tempest is more often a matter of using spikes to enable constant auto-firing. Greater accuracy and using a semi-automatic technique would mean less shots fired.
-Banned-

emphatic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
  • Last login:Yesterday at 04:54:49 pm
  • -"Suck it, Donny!" -"No, YOU suck it.... more".
    • Emphatic's Video Game Collection
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #60 on: March 20, 2011, 11:02:50 am »
I think these buttons are very interesting, but as I just can't stand convex plungers I will stick to my Seimitsus (for now).

Ginsu Victim

  • Yeah, owning a MAME cab only leads to owning real ones. MAME just isn't good enough. It's a gateway drug.
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10092
  • Last login:June 28, 2025, 10:45:55 pm
  • Comanche, OK -- USA
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2011, 11:44:55 am »
I think these buttons are very interesting, but as I just can't stand convex plungers I will stick to my Seimitsus (for now).

Shouldn't that say "concave"?

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #62 on: March 20, 2011, 01:05:26 pm »
Quote
How about how to clean them properly?

 Well of course.  Its the latter on the list, but surely important.

Quote
Tempest has auto firing up to an 8 shot burst.

Ack. My memory is really slippin.  I should have re-tested them to refresh my memory.   That said, after reading this and re=playing... I did much better than normal.  I guess I relied way too much on autofire, and autofire does not always put the shots where you want them.

Quote
Actually the firing rate doesn't change. But three shots at a time allow for more hits. And since you fire via a trigger on the joystick, leaf switches are not a factor for this game.

 Ehh, your right. However, technically speaking, the trigger switch is a leaf as far as I recall.

Quote
Galaga is a "single shot" at a time game. The shot has to leave the screen before the next one can be launched. Now Millipede, which also allows only a single shot at a time is a full auto fire game.

 Actually Im right on this one.  Galaxians is a single shot game.  Galaga is a two shot on screen game... and as said, if you hit something, the next bullet can be fired immediately without the typical delay that is instituted.   You will notice the bullet speed increase if you manage to do something like clear an entire line of dive-bombing enemies.

Quote
Asteroids Deluxe allows four shots on the screen at once, like Asteroids does.

 Yes, and as said, this also gives you fast fire rates if you are hitting things, as that replenishes your quota, as well as eliminates the delay in firing the next shot.

 If you want another really great example, play Halleys Comet.  The game has an autofire if you hold the button down... however, the autofire rate is too slow.  If you fire manually, you can almost double your fire rate... which is needed, cause that game is brutal.


Quote
These are the relevant qualities to test:

Travel distance to activation
Travel pressure to activation
Travel distance to de-activation
Travel pressure to de-activation

That's really it.

 As said before, you are forgetting about what happens when your button slams to full extension.  This is a factor, and a very large and important one.

 Imagine this:

  An acrobat has to jump from trampoline A to trampoline B, then from B to the landing cushion C...  as quickly as possible.

 Version 1:

    Both Trampolines have 5 ft of space under them, so that even with maximum bounce, the trampoline surface would never touch the floor.

 Version 2:

    Both Trampolines have a 3 inch clearance under them.   A small hop on them will result in them touching the floor... however, still having power to lift the person back up afterwords.


 With version 1, the Acrobat will easily bounce from A to B to C,  without much loss of momentum/energy, no impact vibrations or injury. And actually is able to control his depth and speeds.

 With version 2, when jumping on Tramp A, it will bottom-out, touching the ground.  His feet will hit hard and the vibrational impact will be somewhat painful and stressful.  It will also slow his momentum down considerably... and limit his speed going to the next Tramps/Pads.

 The "Impact Fator" has to be taken into account when we are talking about real-world performance, fatigue, efficiency, speed, etc.

 Even with a very light button, with almost no resistance at all, will still have losses when it is 'impacted', as part of its operation method.

Quote
But I'd also like to point out that the greater the pressure for activation, the greater the pressure of the button to return. There is an inverse relationship.

 Yes, but with a leaf, you have to think about leverages, which changes things.
Once you get past a certain point of travel, then you only have to vibrate lightly, instead using a full press and return.  This eliminates a great deal of time, energy and the additional resistance/pressures.

 (much like bumping a pinball machine instead of actually moving it)

Quote
Since there is so much variablility, as well, as individual preferences involved, only real world testing would really mean a lot. (And then, there is still personal preference). As funny as it sounds, real world testing may not be scientific, but it is "more accurate".

 I agree with you to a point.  But in many cases, we should also explore the physics aspects as well.  This better helps us understand the "Whys" of what we felt.

Quote
(And for those who don't know, Bob Roberts makes and sells his own leaf switches).


 Sweet :)   Thanks for the heads up.


emphatic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
  • Last login:Yesterday at 04:54:49 pm
  • -"Suck it, Donny!" -"No, YOU suck it.... more".
    • Emphatic's Video Game Collection
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2011, 02:53:13 pm »
Shouldn't that say "concave"?

I bet you are right.  :dizzy:

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2011, 02:59:33 pm »
Quote
How about how to clean them properly?

 Well of course.  Its the latter on the list, but surely important.

Proper placement of the leaf switch relative to the button plunger at rest and knowing how to clean them(which was beyond a lot of operators) are the two things that directly affected leaf switch longevity and response.
Quote

Quote
Actually the firing rate doesn't change. But three shots at a time allow for more hits. And since you fire via a trigger on the joystick, leaf switches are not a factor for this game.

 Ehh, your right. However, technically speaking, the trigger switch is a leaf as far as I recall.

The main thing is that the finger you use and it's position will not allow you to fire anywhere near as rapidly as the conventional way with a button on the panel.

Quote
Actually Im right on this one.  Galaxians is a single shot game.  Galaga is a two shot on screen game... and as said, if you hit something, the next bullet can be fired immediately without the typical delay that is instituted.   You will notice the bullet speed increase if you manage to do something like clear an entire line of dive-bombing enemies.

Gray_Area was correct about Galaga having two shots at a time, but I wouldn't say the game "somewhat qualifies". Galaga is probably the game that suffers the most if leaf switches aren't used.

Quote
Quote
Asteroids Deluxe allows four shots on the screen at once, like Asteroids does.

 Yes, and as said, this also gives you fast fire rates if you are hitting things, as that replenishes your quota, as well as eliminates the delay in firing the next shot.

Well this goes for all games that have a fire button. The point is that you cannot get the maximum rapid firing rate your fingers can initiate if you are using micro switches instead of leaf switches.
Quote

Quote
These are the relevant qualities to test:

Travel distance to activation
Travel pressure to activation
Travel distance to de-activation
Travel pressure to de-activation

That's really it.

 As said before, you are forgetting about what happens when your button slams to full extension.  This is a factor, and a very large and important one.

No I haven't forgotten. All that is needed to test the parameters I mentioned above is the travel distance, which includes bottoming out. Which you may or may not do in an actual game. (This is one reason I mentioned "real world")
Quote

 Imagine this:

  An acrobat has to jump from trampoline A to trampoline B, then from B to the landing cushion C...  as quickly as possible.

 Version 1:

    Both Trampolines have 5 ft of space under them, so that even with maximum bounce, the trampoline surface would never touch the floor.

 Version 2:

    Both Trampolines have a 3 inch clearance under them.   A small hop on them will result in them touching the floor... however, still having power to lift the person back up afterwords.


 With version 1, the Acrobat will easily bounce from A to B to C,  without much loss of momentum/energy, no impact vibrations or injury. And actually is able to control his depth and speeds.

 With version 2, when jumping on Tramp A, it will bottom-out, touching the ground.  His feet will hit hard and the vibrational impact will be somewhat painful and stressful.  It will also slow his momentum down considerably... and limit his speed going to the next Tramps/Pads.

 The "Impact Fator" has to be taken into account when we are talking about real-world performance, fatigue, efficiency, speed, etc.

 Even with a very light button, with almost no resistance at all, will still have losses when it is 'impacted', as part of its operation method.

I'm not sure what all that meant, but there may be a sweet spot where bottoming out may actually help if the button travel distance is very short, and the activation and deactivation points are the same in the travel. The tests I mentioned above, along with real world tests would help determine that.

I'd like to point out that there are either two or three parts to button travel to consider, depending on whether or not the button plunger is in contact with the leaf switch spring at rest.
A) Button plunger to leaf spring.
B) Leaf spring to contact.
C) Contact to bottoming out.


Quote

Quote
But I'd also like to point out that the greater the pressure for activation, the greater the pressure of the button to return. There is an inverse relationship.

 Yes, but with a leaf, you have to think about leverages, which changes things.
Once you get past a certain point of travel, then you only have to vibrate lightly, instead using a full press and return.  This eliminates a great deal of time, energy and the additional resistance/pressures.

 (much like bumping a pinball machine instead of actually moving it)

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but the tests I mentioned above may bear out that the top of the travel distance is always used and the variability is actually at the bottom where one may or may not bottom out.
Quote

Quote
Since there is so much variablility, as well, as individual preferences involved, only real world testing would really mean a lot. (And then, there is still personal preference). As funny as it sounds, real world testing may not be scientific, but it is "more accurate".

 I agree with you to a point.  But in many cases, we should also explore the physics aspects as well.  This better helps us understand the "Whys" of what we felt.

This is why I listed the tests above. But those scientific tests will only establish the button parameters to work with and mean nothing by themselves.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #65 on: March 20, 2011, 03:01:17 pm »
The forum somehow created a double post.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 03:05:57 pm by D_Harris »
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2011, 03:38:24 pm »
Quote
where bottoming out may actually help if the button travel distance is very short

 Sorry, but I strongly disagree. 

 Re-read the trampoline example for reason why.

 Bottoming out on a non-springy material means a stopping of momentum and loss of energy.   This is what helps to create fatigue.

 Whats more fatiguing?

a) walking on a concrete floor all day long
b) walking on a bouncy rubber mat all day long

Obviously,  walking on a mat that was TOO soft... such as to the point of being deep and mud-like, would be worse than bare concrete.  However, the clear winner here is option B.

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2011, 04:00:02 pm »
Quote
where bottoming out may actually help if the button travel distance is very short

 Sorry, but I strongly disagree. 

 Re-read the trampoline example for reason why.

 Bottoming out on a non-springy material means a stopping of momentum and loss of energy.   This is what helps to create fatigue.

 Whats more fatiguing?

a) walking on a concrete floor all day long
b) walking on a bouncy rubber mat all day long

Obviously,  walking on a mat that was TOO soft... such as to the point of being deep and mud-like, would be worse than bare concrete.  However, the clear winner here is option B.


What's to disagree with? That wasn't a statement of fact.

And we're not talking about trampolines.

The reason why bottoming out a short travel button may actually be conducive to rapid firing is because it may actually allow the button bounce back faster because of how quickly it halts the buttons kinetic energy in the downward direction, making the switch to the reverse direct faster. (You can bounce a hard plastic ball higher off the pavement than off the grass).

But there are also several other related factors to consider.

It's not wise to dismiss any possibility that hasn't been scientifically tested. And establishing the parameters mentioned above for each button would be a step in the right direction.

Again, establishing parameters and then real world testing is the only way to determine with accuracy what you can do with each button assembly.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2011, 09:42:01 pm »
Quote
And we're not talking about trampolines.

 What is a Leaf switch?  Its a metal spring.  A diving board.  A form of a trampoline.   You put energy into it, and that energy is returned instead of wasted.

Quote
(You can bounce a hard plastic ball higher off the pavement than off the grass).

 But a leaf spring isnt grass.  Its not nullifying.  It returns energy.

 And also, you have to understand that a plastic ball isnt attached to a human... which is important, when you are talking about fatigue.

 Just like running with rubber soles will be better than with hard plastic soles.

Malenko

  • KNEEL BEFORE ZODlenko!
  • Trade Count: (+58)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14019
  • Last login:July 25, 2025, 05:49:10 pm
  • Have you played with my GingerBalls?
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142404.msg1475162.html
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2011, 09:51:55 pm »
you guys wanna stop thread crapping?

I couldnt go through all that drivel to see if the buttons came with the quick connects or not. Im very interested in them
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

D_Harris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Last login:September 25, 2024, 10:06:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2011, 11:49:59 pm »
Quote
And we're not talking about trampolines.

 What is a Leaf switch?  Its a metal spring.  A diving board.  A form of a trampoline.   You put energy into it, and that energy is returned instead of wasted.

Quote
(You can bounce a hard plastic ball higher off the pavement than off the grass).

 But a leaf spring isnt grass.  Its not nullifying.  It returns energy.

 And also, you have to understand that a plastic ball isnt attached to a human... which is important, when you are talking about fatigue.

 Just like running with rubber soles will be better than with hard plastic soles.


And we're not talking about running.

I'm more versed in physics than you are and I can see that you have failed to understand what I was saying.(Or just arguing for arguments sake).

So let's end it here.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 12:05:53 am by D_Harris »
My collection:Asteroids, Joust, Millipede, Ms. Pac-man, Pole Position, Robotron 2084, Star Trek, Star Wars, and 100+ PCBs. Trading/Selling:Arkanoid: R.O.D. Cocktail, Tornado spinner, Hewlett Packard 16500A Logic Analysis System with Accessories. Wanted:Mach 3 joystick. Millipede Trackball. 100° or WG4600 monitor Tube.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2011, 03:01:22 am »
This will be my last reply on the subject.

 I dont argue just to argue.  I post exactly what I believe to be true.

Bludgeon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Last login:May 18, 2011, 07:51:19 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2011, 02:39:58 pm »
Walking on pavement burns fewer calories than walking on dirt, and that less than trampolines even though it's more strenuous on the joints.

Harder surfaces are less fatiguing. 

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2011, 04:05:25 pm »
Try working in a factory 9hrs a day, where the floors are bare concrete and get back to me. The small rubber mat finally installed under my station saved my feet from major pain and abuses.

Bludgeon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Last login:May 18, 2011, 07:51:19 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #74 on: March 22, 2011, 10:07:38 am »
Yeah pain is obvious, but it's just related, it's not the same issue at all.  Either way with buttons I don't think the problem is people slamming them hard enough to damage joints.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2011, 03:18:29 pm »
You dont "stamp" your feet into the floor.  Its accumulative pressure and stresses over a long period of time. (and every time that contact is a "harder" impact, its putting more stresses and damages into your bodys parts)

 However, with finger tapping, unlike walking, you are constantly pushing your fingers to their maximum potentials.  This would be like stamping your feet rapidly for an hour or more, depending on your gaming times (or the equivalent 9hr day of normal walking).

 The lesser the impact, and the more energy returned to you, equates to the more times you can do the motion without fatigue.. and the faster you can do it as well.

Donkbaca

  • Our reptillian overlords would be pleased
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • Last login:May 09, 2012, 06:28:10 pm
    • Slim built MAME/Xbox cab
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2011, 04:20:49 pm »
This will be my last reply on the subject.

liar

ark_ader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5645
  • Last login:March 02, 2019, 07:35:34 pm
  • I glow in the dark.
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2011, 04:57:18 pm »
Wasn't Track n Field Buttons Leaf?

I saw a kid (back in the day) playing TnF and he fractured his finger (open bone  :puke) by slamming his fingers on the buttons.

Why I don't know, as we used a Bic Pen to get the scores....

So hitting the buttons harder on Leafs are prone to more damage than microswitched buttons...right?
If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

Vigo

  • the Scourage of Carpathia
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6417
  • Last login:June 25, 2025, 03:09:16 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2011, 05:21:10 pm »
This will be my last reply on the subject.

liar

Did anyone actually think X2 could keep away?

X2 is probably one of the biggest purists here, and he can't help but debate things like this. X2 saying he will stay away from this topic is like a crackhead saying he will not steal the copper out of foreclosed houses anymore.

Take a look at his project announcement from a few years ago. I DARE you to convince me that X2 is genetically capable of using unauthentic controls. (BTW, did you ever finish this project, X2? I would love to see how it turned out if you did.)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75399.0

Just count the joysticks on this thing! (And I think this is only half of it.)  :o

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2011, 06:48:40 pm »
I got sidetracked on other things... and it never got started.

 Mostly, it was due to my health going down hill.  Found out only recently it was due to extreme food allergies (such as gluten/wheat), to which I battle for the energy just to do minimal things.

 The project was a portable solution, which is basically two control panels back to back.  You rotate it to whatever side you desire to use.  The Trackballs Flip Out. The design was made this way, to avoid having to reach too deep into a panel.. which causes too much strain and discomfort, in a very short timeframe.

 There will always be compromises... but whenever possible, its most often that the original controllers tend to give the best feel and results.  (such as a starwars yoke is much better than using an analog stick)

 If people want to compromise, that is for them to decide.. as its their panel.

 But Imop, people who are not sure about things, should be well informed, so as to be able to make a well informed judgment.

 I would have stopped posting, but another person decided to counter again, rather than drop it.

 Either way, keeping Andys thread from sinking is only doing more good than bad I suspect.  heh.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 06:54:08 pm by Xiaou2 »

eds1275

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2165
  • Last login:July 21, 2025, 05:34:15 pm
  • Rock and Roll!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2011, 07:00:01 pm »

SammyWI

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 457
  • Last login:August 16, 2022, 07:58:00 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #81 on: March 22, 2011, 07:07:24 pm »
This will be my last reply on the subject.

liar
:laugh2:
I almost posted the exact same thing, but I decided to be nice.  I'm glad one of us wasn't.  ;D

But to be on topic:  I like that we have a choice for Japanese style switches in a concave button.  Putting 'leaf' in the name was an unfortunate choice that is going to derail topics into, well this.

Donkbaca

  • Our reptillian overlords would be pleased
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • Last login:May 09, 2012, 06:28:10 pm
    • Slim built MAME/Xbox cab
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #82 on: March 22, 2011, 07:29:36 pm »
I'm just ribbing him.  I enjoy X2's posts more than most, and enjoy his passion

Vigo

  • the Scourage of Carpathia
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6417
  • Last login:June 25, 2025, 03:09:16 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #83 on: March 22, 2011, 09:18:53 pm »
I got sidetracked on other things... and it never got started.

 Mostly, it was due to my health going down hill.  Found out only recently it was due to extreme food allergies (such as gluten/wheat), to which I battle for the energy just to do minimal things.

 :-\ I'm sorry to hear that, I really hope now that you know the root of the health problem as allergies you can work around it and be productive again. :cheers:

I'm just ribbing him.  I enjoy X2's posts more than most, and enjoy his passion

Same here, even if I often disagree. I've been completely ribbing too, but I stand by what I said. X2 is too much of a purist to simply leave a good control debate alone, and thats fine because he is knowledgeable on the subject. X2 seems too thick skinned to let him off easy though.  ;D

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4134
  • Last login:June 11, 2025, 11:55:17 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2011, 01:13:56 am »
Quote
Undecided I'm sorry to hear that, I really hope now that you know the root of the health problem as allergies you can work around it and be productive again. Cheers!

 I know for sure I have a wheat allergy, which is very hard to get around cause everything has wheat in it... even most forms of soysauce.

 However, I know I have other allergies as well... and Im still trying to figure them out.  Its quite difficult, as there is always a big delay from the time ate to the time theres some sort of reaction.

Quote
I'm just ribbing him.  I enjoy X2's posts more than most, and enjoy his passion

Quote
Same here, even if I often disagree. I've been completely ribbing too, but I stand by what I said. X2 is too much of a purist to simply leave a good control debate alone, and thats fine because he is knowledgeable on the subject. X2 seems too thick skinned to let him off easy though.  Grin

 Haha   ;D   Thanks guys.   
 (Comes from a lifetime of taking punches.  heh  >.<  )

clutch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 154
  • Last login:February 06, 2014, 02:26:56 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2011, 09:45:33 am »
This thread needs another sexual analogy.

boardjunkie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 698
  • Last login:March 05, 2019, 06:05:58 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2011, 11:00:12 am »
I think these could be a good middle ground between micros and true old style leafs. Those who just want to try a leaf button and aren't hardcore picky about them would prolly be satisfied just fine.

However, I *am* major picky about buttons. According to me, here's why real old school leafs are superior to everything else out there:

Adjustability - You can set the point of switch closure to personalise the sensitivity

"Feel" can be changed - You can use different tension switches. Some like more tension when the contacts close so there is a defined "bounce" at that point. I'm just the opposite.....I like light action switches that don't change the tension through the button travel. Just feels smoother to me.

Choice of button travel - There are leaf buttons with long travel, and there are shorter travel versions. I prefer the short ones....I don't mind bottoming them out. Those who like the bounce thing would prolly prefer the longer ones as the switch closure set about halfway through the travel is a pretty traditional setup for alot of the classic games.

Easy to clean - Old type leaf switches are exposed and therefore a snap to clean the contacts. These new Ultimarc ones....I dunno if they come apart at all for cleaning. If not, one beer spill and the button is prob'ly toast.

So all in all.....I think the Ultimarc "new style" button is a fairly decent idea. They may not hit home with purists like me, so they'll need to carve out a niche of thier own. But....anything that can potentially knock micros down a notch is fine by me. I can't stand micro switches for anything.....

idsane

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
  • Last login:September 28, 2020, 11:00:42 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #87 on: March 23, 2011, 07:23:59 pm »
I just read this whole thread and don't think I read anything about someone testing them? Has anyone? I am about to place an order for an IPAC so I think I will give some a try.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #88 on: March 23, 2011, 09:25:59 pm »
This thread needs another sexual analogy.

Classic.
-Banned-

DNA Dan

  • Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Last login:September 02, 2017, 11:39:00 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #89 on: March 24, 2011, 01:08:13 am »
Forget about the buttons, I want to hear more about that control panel  :applaud: I've never even imagined something like that would be possible.

Bludgeon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Last login:May 18, 2011, 07:51:19 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2011, 09:54:44 pm »
The lesser the impact, and the more energy returned to you, equates to the more times you can do the motion without fatigue.. and the faster you can do it as well.
No, as it's been pointed out to you.  Soft surfaces don't return as much energy.  I don't see what you can't get about that.  Have you ever seen a kinetic energy toy made out of sponge?  There's a reason why not.

Donkbaca

  • Our reptillian overlords would be pleased
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • Last login:May 09, 2012, 06:28:10 pm
    • Slim built MAME/Xbox cab
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #91 on: March 25, 2011, 12:04:51 am »
All those controls on x2's panel and no proper way to play 720degrees

VanillaGorilla

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 480
  • Last login:March 08, 2019, 10:23:51 pm
  • Coin detected in pocket
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #92 on: March 25, 2011, 12:14:23 am »
the only way to play 720 is to have the actual machine. It took me 15 years to realize that. I literally waited that long to admit to myself that mame was never going to cut it for 720. All that time wasted, and all I had to do was spend $450 bucks. Sheesh. SKAYT OR DYE!!!!!!


DNA Dan

  • Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Last login:September 02, 2017, 11:39:00 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #93 on: April 01, 2011, 12:58:42 am »
So after all the back and fourth am I the only one who bought some of these buttons? I'd like to hear what other people think of these.

VanillaGorilla

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 480
  • Last login:March 08, 2019, 10:23:51 pm
  • Coin detected in pocket
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #94 on: April 01, 2011, 10:50:51 am »
Well since you bought them, maybe you could share?

DNA Dan

  • Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Last login:September 02, 2017, 11:39:00 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #95 on: April 01, 2011, 11:36:14 am »
See reply #38. It got buried during the "tastes great, less filling" debate.

Homer41

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:May 14, 2012, 01:49:08 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2011, 03:03:12 am »
Just got mine and wondering how you wire these up?? They came with a cherry switch too, but it doesn't come out. Total noob ?s, but want 2 get this bad boy going!! Nothing on the website and only 2 leads to hook up to. Help! Cheers!!

leapinlew

  • Some questionable things going on in this room with cheetos
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7919
  • Last login:July 12, 2025, 10:33:20 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2011, 08:45:29 am »
I got sidetracked on other things... and it never got started.

You removed the picture? Thats total weak sauce... I have all my attempts and projects up just to show a progression. You can always say "It was 2008! I didn't know any better"

Also, if you say your done in a thread, that doesn't mean other people are done.  :lol

DNA Dan

  • Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Last login:September 02, 2017, 11:39:00 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2011, 10:44:22 am »
Just got mine and wondering how you wire these up?? They came with a cherry switch too, but it doesn't come out. Total noob ?s, but want 2 get this bad boy going!! Nothing on the website and only 2 leads to hook up to. Help! Cheers!!

I looked for markings on mine and didn't see any "+" or "-" on there either. They're also difficult to find on the Ultimarc website. I think Andy needs to streamline the website a bit, it's gettting dated. I can understand however as keeping up with the latest tech is a job in an of itself.

All I did is install them in the same orientation, then just chose one side for ground on all the buttons so they are treated the same. I am pretty sure these are NO all the time, so there is no need for a third NC leg on there.

Also, the connectors are .110 size. I used the ones over at www.twistedquarter.com, and they work really well.

LeedsFan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1042
  • Last login:January 17, 2021, 06:14:23 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2011, 02:05:36 pm »
I bought a couple of the black ones for my classics panel on the Defender bartop. They are really nice to use and dead easy to instal (like any other button really). The button isn't quite as long as an original Happs button, but the look and style are almost exactly the same. In use there is no feel at all of any switch clicking. Then again I'm a Sanwa button fan myself and there's no feel or sound to those either. But if you want that classic 80's arcade look with a Sanwa feel then these are right up your street. My only niggle (and it is a minor one) is that the black plastic on mine weren't of a fantastically deep gloss finish. They had a slight "milky" look to the black. But that may be an issue with black only as I didn't buy any other colour.

When wiring them up I don't think it matters at all which terminal is the Ground. You don't have to pick the same one on each button. So long as one is common Ground and one is "live" then it will be fine.

DNA Dan

  • Guys.. we're not talking gold bars here
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Last login:September 02, 2017, 11:39:00 am
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #100 on: June 10, 2011, 02:10:29 pm »
I too noticed that the blacks could be a little deeper. I installed nothing but these all black in my CP so I figure with nothing to compare it to, you wouldn't notice the "lighter" black. Sitting side by side next to a happ button I can clearly see the difference in color.

mgb

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3500
  • Last login:January 06, 2025, 09:39:00 pm
  • North East, US
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #101 on: June 10, 2011, 09:58:35 pm »
X, you forgot to mention that you managed an arcade for 3 years and thats how you know. :)

Andy, it looks like a great product as are the other products that I have bought from you in the past.
I look forward to trying a couple out soon and then decideing if I like them or not.
soon I will finally give in and try ordering a u360, I guess I'll try these then.

gabe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 102
  • Last login:September 10, 2012, 12:44:38 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2011, 03:46:17 pm »
Bump... On the topic of actually trying these things...

I haven't spent a notable amount of time playing on "real" leaf springs, so I won't be able to offer a meaningful comparison in that regard. Fortunately, most leaf spring aficionados probably already know that these buttons are not for them (as evidenced by the diatribe found on pages one and two of this thread).

When compared to the Happ/Cherry buttons they replaced, I immediately noticed that The Ultimac GoldLeaf's were considerably quieter. The next thing I noticed was the low actuation force / low inertia. With the low actuation force comes what I interpret as low spring-back force. The difference in feel is hard to articulate. The closest I can come is to say that the GoldLeafs do not feel as "assertive" in actuation or spring-back as a Cherry switch. At first blush, I perceived this as feeling a bit "cheap" but in retrospect, I believe this was simply a case of mistaking familiarity with superiority. 

I hope the above paragraph does not sound negative, as my overall feelings for the GoldLeafs are quite positive. After spending some time playing games with intense repeated actuation (mostly shmups) I have decided that these buttons are going to stay in my cabinet for the foreseeable future.

My only real complaint is that the delicate 2.8mm connector tags proved to be no match for my ultra powerful and manly hands, which managed to snap one of them off during installation. This prompted me to order a set of spares (just in case) from divemaster127.


Ravenger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:October 01, 2024, 04:43:52 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #103 on: February 14, 2012, 05:24:22 pm »
Another bump.

I've just finished upgrading my cabinet with 12 of these Ultimarc leaf-switch buttons, replacing the generic microswitch buttons the cab came with.

As has been said before, these do not feel the same as standard leaf-switches. They're very, very light in operation, and don't have a strong spring-back.

However compared to the microswitch buttons they replaced they're quieter and incredibly responsive, and make a huge difference in games like Defender or Joust where speed of firing is essential. They're also much less tiring on the fingers, due to the low actuation force, and you don't need to fully depress them to activate them.

For games like Asteroids which are played entirely on buttons they feel much more authentic than microswitch buttons.

On the minus side, the connectors are tiny and flimsy - I was concerned I might break them. I didn't want to have to re-crimp all my wires, so I had to bodge my cabinet's 4.8mm connectors to fit.

They were slighty shorter than the original buttons. but I had no issues with sizing, as they fit just about perfectly in my wooden panel. They take up much less room than microswitched buttons, which makes them easier to wire up too.

Overall, I like them a lot. They're a great alternative to microswitched buttons, especially if you don't have the room in your panel for standard leaf switches.

jilted

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Last login:December 16, 2013, 10:22:41 am
  • tumblepop!
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2012, 10:43:06 am »
Thanks for bumping with your experience with these.  I was considering these for my Defender panel to try and get as much as possible on it!

The Jerk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • Last login:February 25, 2019, 02:40:20 pm
    • Arcade Cabinet pictures
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #105 on: March 19, 2014, 04:42:46 pm »

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #106 on: March 23, 2014, 04:48:23 am »
We are in the process of upgrading these buttons. The newer type are molded from a different material which is exactly the same as that used by IL / Happ for their buttons, and the thickness of the connector tags is increased.

Also the top part of the mold has been improved to give a more perfect curve on the top and shinier finish.

At the present time the only colors which are not upgraded are black, orange and light blue.

wp34

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4794
  • Last login:April 10, 2022, 09:48:19 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #107 on: March 23, 2014, 09:05:43 am »
We are in the process of upgrading these buttons. The newer type are molded from a different material which is exactly the same as that used by IL / Happ for their buttons, and the thickness of the connector tags is increased.

Also the top part of the mold has been improved to give a more perfect curve on the top and shinier finish.

At the present time the only colors which are not upgraded are black, orange and light blue.

That is great news.  Any ETA on upgraded white buttons?

docpoof

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
  • Last login:April 06, 2025, 01:44:50 pm
  • Xbox modder
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #108 on: March 25, 2014, 06:43:06 pm »
I would be interested in knowing as well as I'm starting a new build.

Thanks Andy

fettsvett201

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32
  • Last login:December 24, 2016, 01:01:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #109 on: June 13, 2014, 10:58:52 pm »
Cant wait to use these buttons in my furture cabinet.

A few years back there was mention of dark blue buttons being made (as the current ones are a little too light).

Is this still happening at some point?

Thanks

AndyWarne

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
  • Last login:April 11, 2021, 03:37:09 am
    • Ultimarc
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #110 on: June 16, 2014, 03:37:22 am »
Cant wait to use these buttons in my furture cabinet.

A few years back there was mention of dark blue buttons being made (as the current ones are a little too light).

Is this still happening at some point?

Thanks

Yes we have had dark blue (same as Happ) available for around a year now.

Andy

fettsvett201

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32
  • Last login:December 24, 2016, 01:01:48 pm
Re: New Product: Ultimarc GoldLeaf High-performance Pushbuttons
« Reply #111 on: June 16, 2014, 08:20:15 pm »
Excellent.

I guess I didnt see it before. I was just going by the main picture and didnt click on the Add to Cart.

Thanks
Steve

Edit: Any chance of a purple button? Im doing a 4 player cabinet and wish to do Ninja Turtle colors for the control panel. Or do you think the dark blue would work?

« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 08:29:53 pm by fettsvett201 »

Yvan256

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1039
  • Last login:June 20, 2017, 08:35:41 am
    • Yvan256
GoldLeaf measurements
« Reply #112 on: June 02, 2015, 04:04:33 pm »
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but maybe someone will find this information useful.

All measurements were done with digital calipers on what I assume to be the last version of the buttons (received within the last month), rounded up to the nearest 0.1mm for non-critical measurements.

The 34mm radius is precise and so is the 35mm length underneath the mounting surface. The nuts (not shown) are ~35.2mm in diameter, ~9.5mm in thickness.

edit: don't mind the square shape of the button, I'm just not good enough with Sketchup to make circular rounded edges yet. The real buttons are really nice.  :D
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 09:43:03 pm by Yvan256 »