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Author Topic: how many admin buttons  (Read 12085 times)

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gazz292

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how many admin buttons
« on: November 11, 2010, 08:37:46 pm »
i'm re-thinking my control panel design a little,

atm i have 4 admin buttons, they are small round buttons about 20mm diamiter, i've found some nice flush ones that would look even better on my panel (i.e. you have to push the button inside the mounting bezel to activate it, no chance of hitting an admin button by mistake)

i put 4 on my cp as that's how many small switches i pulled from my cab, they used ro work the test switch, volume and that,

but i am struggeling to think what i'd use 4 for... i deffo want an escape and tab switch, pause could be handy i guess, but are there any other admin buttons that would benefit from a dedicated switch?? (yes i know i can do it all with the shift function on the mini-pac, but i want dedicated admin buttons)

i've also been thinking of putting in a double pole change over button which will switch 2 of the fire buttons connections to the mouse button inputs on the mini-pac, so i dont need dedicated mouse buttons, but can press the switch, then use 2 of the fire buttons as left and right mouse buttons, to be used with the trackball for altering things on the cab without the need to pull a mouse out.

does this sound like a silly idea? the button to activate the mouse buttons would be up by the admin buttons, so not in the way, and it'll iliminate to show it's active.


DrFrag

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 09:02:06 pm »
Escape, Tab, Pause, Pause Frame Advance, Power, Reset, Load State, Save State, Turbo, Screenshot, Reset Game, Volume Up/Down, Mute, Frame Skip, Fraps Record.

Endaar

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2010, 09:14:38 pm »
I've got pause, tab, reset and exit. Reset isn't that necessary but I had the fourth button for symmetry.

Endaar

gazz292

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 09:50:16 pm »
lol, a franken panel with an admin button for every possible choice... maybe not.

i am thinking 3 buttons are all thats really needed too, if i need any more i can make them shifted buttons, but the ones i'd be pressing all the time would be tab and escape, pause is handy,

i guess i could put the mouse button change over button with the admin buttons and that'd be the 4th one, i can get momentary and latching flush buttons of the same style,

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2010, 10:10:54 pm »
none.!!!


use a shift key (instead of a button, I used a switchkey, so it really is a key)
and have your normal buttons do the trick! :)
-Mars

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2010, 10:20:31 pm »
None +1
"George Bush doesn't care about arcade people"

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2010, 11:40:54 pm »
I have just 3.  I have a "enter/exit" (enters Mame from frontend and exits back to frontend from Mame), Pause, Reset (reset Mame).  I think most "admin" buttons are useless.  Why?  Aren't you supposed to be playing and not administrating the cabinet?  If you need to admin stuff, use a keyboard and mouse!  Set up your cab before guests arrive.

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2010, 12:04:38 am »
None.

If kids come over to play, you'll wish you had none.

wweumina

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2010, 12:56:06 am »
I agree with none. 

I started with 2 (pause and exit).  I've since re-done the panel and removed them. 

Alternatively, if you are determined, consider putting them in the pinball flipper position.  It keeps the panel itself clean.

Pingaloka

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2010, 03:48:00 am »
Yep, that's how I have them. In the pinball possition I have pause on the left and and enter on the right.
On the panel itself I have volume up volume down and a button for credits.
Inside the Coin door I have tab and reset, so no one messes with that around.
Reset I don't think is so important, as once each game is configured no reset is needed.

LeedsFan

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2010, 04:41:40 am »
If you have admin buttons at least hide them. Kids will press anything. The only extra buttons I would consider on a cab would be Exit and coin inputs for both P1 and P2. (Some games use separate coin inputs for P2). At least those three buttons are self explanatory for guests using your machine and you don't need to keep explaining to them to press and hold P1 then press button 1 for credits for example. The amount of times I had to explain stuff... I got sick of it in the end.  :P

And I don't consider coin inputs as admin buttons anyway. It's just that you can get by without separate coin buttons using the shift function.

I wouldn't even have a Pause button on there personally. Real arcade games didn't have them :p. But it's your cab your choice.

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2010, 07:12:48 am »
Two: Exit & Pause.  Both of them labeled.

DaveMMR

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2010, 07:26:58 am »
I used to say "none", but a small "Exit Game" (ESC) button is pretty handy (don't let it exit your front-end, however).  So "one".   Everything else hidden with a shift.  (Maybe add pause if you have the room to spare).

I like using odd Radio Shack buttons for admin (i.e. Exit) buttons as it doesn't look or travel like regular buttons and isn't accidentally pressed by over-enthusiastic guests.

ptinolv

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2010, 12:14:02 pm »
I have : exit, pause, reset and fast forward. For more complicated stuff, i have a wireless keyboard.

I think this depends on the way you play , or if you have a lot of kids arounds messing with every buttons, etc...

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2010, 12:38:07 pm »
Less is better.  On one of my cabinets, I have 2: pause and exit.  On my other cabinet, I have 1 button that is both pause (quick press) and exit (press and hold for 2 seconds).  Everything else is done with button combos

P1 start + p1 b6 brings up tab menu,  p1 start + p1b5 OS fast forward,  etc.
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javeryh

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2010, 12:43:53 pm »
Keep it as simple as possible.  I use coin, pause and exit on all of my cabs.  That's the list.  If there is a coin door with a reject button I'll rig that for coin and have even one less admin button.

Hoopz

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2010, 12:49:52 pm »
19 is the minimum, 22 is acceptable.
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gazz292

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2010, 02:10:40 pm »
Hmmmmm, now i'm wondering what to do,

no kids will ever play this machine, dont have any friends with kids, but if i did, there's a key switch on the cab, not sure what it was for on the origional game (golden tee) but i could run the commons from admin switches via the key switch, so when it's off, pressing those buttons wont do a thing anyway, but they are handily placed for getting into the config settings to change the difficulty of a game or change other dip switches and button assignments.

or i could put the buttons back in the coin box like the cab had origionaly,

i know i'll deffo want an exit button, prolly pause,

if i think about it, i only want the admin buttons on the cp so they are easy to get at... which will only be for when i'm setting the machine up, once it's set up those buttons wont be used, so i rekon having them in the coin box is best,
i have 4 spaces in there, so i'd have TAB for entering settings, F2 for entering service mode in games that support it, erm.... 2 more admin functions i could use in there? (origionaly had volume buttons in there, but i now have a dial on the front of the cp box to control the volume)

Maybe a 'show fps' button?

The only reason i wanted the admin buttons easily accessable was for the time when i want to make a single quick change to a game, i.e. change the fire button assignment (one of my friends likes to play bubble bobble with joystick up as jump, as opposed to button 2 as jump, but i guess i could make up an i-pac keycode reasignment file to load when that awkward player comes round :)

justinjstark

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2010, 02:31:48 pm »
What do you all use a "tab" button for?  I usually just have pause and exit along with a coin and start for each player.

Hoopz

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2010, 02:38:44 pm »
What do you all use a "tab" button for?  I usually just have pause and exit along with a coin and start for each player.
Having a tab button opens the door to all kinds of problems.  I would avoid having that button above all things. Tab allows you to enter the Mame configuration menu.
Ajax should have been named Warlord, not Swan.

First off, Hoopz is right.

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2010, 03:02:07 pm »
Having a tab button opens the door to all kinds of problems.  I would avoid having that button above all things. Tab allows you to enter the Mame configuration menu.

+100

LeedsFan

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2010, 03:25:50 pm »
One thing you could do is just make sure there is a USB port easily available on the cab. I do this with all my projects now. Then you can simply plug in any mouse/keyboard and change stuff on the fly. I would never have a TAB button on the panel. It's just lazy and asking for trouble in my opinion.

ranma

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 05:06:07 pm »
Having a tab button opens the door to all kinds of problems.  I would avoid having that button above all things. Tab allows you to enter the Mame configuration menu.

Agree, I like my cab to be like a kiosk, no way for the user to mess up the settings in any way; you cant count on them, even if they are your friends, they could screw up without noticing.

I have 1 admin button, Exit while in game and "extra info" while in the menu, it's a customization that shows certain sections of history.dat about the current selected game. Everything else (which is settings, once in a while) I do it with a keyboard that is hidden on the cab. Volume control is accessible opening the coin door.

Jefferson

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2010, 09:10:15 pm »
Personal taste, but fewer the better.

I have 3 black buttons at top center labelled Play Pause Exit.  Intended for frontend navigation.  Now I know I could have gotten away with just Pause and Exit.

'Play' is wired the same as P1B1, so even that can throw people for a tick.  (I thought with both of them doing the same thing itd be MORE intuitive... but when it says 'press start' people often press PLAY.  Retards, I know.  But it goes to show my plan wasnt exactly intuitive.)

SHIFTED FUNCTIONS ARE YOUR FRIEND.  I use P1 for mame menu, PCB menu, FF, and save states.

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2010, 10:35:14 pm »
Two: Exit & Pause.  Both of them labeled.
This is what I would do for my new cab, but if you are using Maximus Arcade as your front end you'll want a "back" button too.

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2010, 12:53:55 am »
just exit, no need for anything else, i barley even take out my keyboard, i never saw the reason for a pause button.
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wweumina

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2010, 09:13:55 am »
just exit, no need for anything else, i barley even take out my keyboard, i never saw the reason for a pause button.
Depends on the games you play.  Anyone doing marathon Track and Field games will appreciate a toilet break every now and then..

I think the general consensus is that most people building a cab for the first time think they'll need about 5 admin buttons.  Most who've had one in from of them for a while think 0-2 (and those hidden or at least clearly labelled).

Marsupial

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2010, 09:44:59 am »
they way I wired mine, if you don't have the admin key, its like a real arcade machine. no pause, no exit, no nothing. Real arcade machine.

Now, the key is for changing games or config, so the normal buttons are used with that and its great.
Plus, you never "accidentally" exit a game. Which is annoying.


Depends what you're trying to do.
If you want to recreate the look and feel of a reel arcade machine, admin shift key and no admin buttons.
If you want to rig up as many things you want on a cabinet, you're always welcomed to put 104 pushbuttons; its your rig.

This is really a personnal taste discussion...

I know that - kid or no kid - I wouldn't want admin buttons when it really is not required; shift function is the best to keep the original look and feel. So for me adding extra buttons is NOT desired.
-Mars

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2010, 05:37:36 pm »
I always remember the comment on the CrapMame site... "someone spilled a bag of Skittles across the control panel".  I sprayed coffee at that one!  :laugh2:

EDIT:   dug it out :p   http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/10.html

Osirus23

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2010, 07:10:20 pm »
No admin buttons. The Opti-Pac's shift functions take care of anything I need to do.

severdhed

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2010, 07:35:54 pm »
Without a dedicated exit button, it is not intuitive enough for guests.  I could do without pause if I had to.
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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2010, 08:47:22 pm »
No admin buttons. The I-Pac's shift functions take care of anything I need to do.

Fixt
Ajax should have been named Warlord, not Swan.

First off, Hoopz is right.

gazz292

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2010, 09:22:50 pm »
aye, i know about the mini-pac's shift feature,

but like has been said, it'll soon get annoying to hear every 2 minutes 'gaaaaazz, i dont like this game, how do i get rid of it and try another one again'
then 'gaaaaaaazz, i did what you said, pressed P1 start and xx button, but that didnt work, so i tried P1 start and i hit every other button there was, and now it wont do anything'

so i'd need to label all the shifted buttons, so i may as well have a couple of admin buttons.

exit deffinately, pause very handy, and a coin button for when i dont want to pop a token in the mech (like when playing something with a coin up to continue feature, and i'm out of tokens and have never got so far before)

the tab and service buttons will be behind the cash box door, and i guess i'll use a shifted function for tab whilst i'm setting the cab up,

i'm deffo not going for the skittles look, i'm having 6 fire buttons per player, 2 joysticks which are mag sticks, so top switchable between 4 and 8 way, a trackball, p1 and p2 start, a spinner,

and 3 smaller flush buttons for exit, pause and coin.

is my cp re-design so far, not added the spinner yet, not sure where to put it atm, and not put the admin buttons on yet either.

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2010, 09:52:05 pm »
I use a KEY for the shift... nobody can get confused with that.

I had my nephew here. He's 8. Gave him the key. Said: "turn the key, press this button, then you can select a new game. Enjoy". He didn't have any problems the whole evening.

now.... I went to a friend's place, his cab had about 12 admins buttons. I still don't know how to start/stop/pause/exit being that I always ended up trying a bunch of buttons everytime before managing to do anything.

What's better?

Now, even if you're dead on adding keys, you don't HAVE to have everything on separate keys. You could have what you consider "essential" on actual keys, and the rest (like TAB - you won't use that all the time, and would rather not have guests use it) in shifted functions.


but... in real life... guests always prefer to actually ask you to change games. Being that they don't know your machine, your games, or even what they want to play.

And... get tokens. Makes the whole arcade feel more realistic, really!
-Mars

severdhed

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2010, 10:11:51 pm »
the key idea is cool, and i agree totally that having a bunch of admin buttons that arent labeled is confusing.  I think all admin buttons should be clearly labeled.  I have a clearly labled exit button on my panels, and i instruct people that they need to hold it down for 2 to 3 seconds to exit.  after that, nobody has to ask me to do anything.  i can't imagine having to go over and change the game everytime someone wanted a different one. 
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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2010, 11:51:33 pm »
tokens, i run all my machines on pachislo tokens (i have 5 fruit machines (slot machines in america i think.. ones a one armed bandit) a pachislo machine, pinball machine and the video machine i'm making, to keep them all in real money would cost me a fortune, so i made them all run on the tokens i have hundereds of,

i've just had the coin validator off the video machine re-programmed to accept my tokens,

and a little while ago i built a token dispenser, press a button and it spits out 50 tokens.. just an old fruit machine coin hopper (bit that pays out) and a circuit to pulse the hoppers input 50 times, it then counts out 50 tokens.

i even thought of getting an old train station toilet door pay lock, but my GF wouldent let me for some reason, i just love the coin op experiance, especialy as i own the keys and can play operator at the end of the day and go round the machines emptying them  :dunno

Anyhoo, i think i've decided on an 'EXIT' and a 'PAUSE' button on the CP, along with a coin button, the other admin buttons will be inside the coin box door,

Just the location of the spinner to figure out now.

LeedsFan

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2010, 02:40:11 pm »
Why is Player 2's joystick on the right hand side?  :o

Other than that I think it looks clean. And you could wire up the coin reject button as a credit button so keeping one less button off the panel.

gazz292

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2010, 05:04:51 pm »
it's not, P1's joystick is on the right hand side  :laugh2:

i have arthritis which affects my fingers, plus i've always been an awkward bugger, i had a 'joyboard' with my amiga back in the day, which has the joystick on the right, buttons on the left, so i kinda grew up using joysticks ass backwards.

i did origionally have both sticks on the right, but found my fingers on the fire buttons can only last 45 mins at the most, and if i swapped over to the other stick (after re-asigning the controls) i could play another 45 minutes before my left fingers locked up,

and as they say..... it's my joystick, and i'll stick it where i like  >:D

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2010, 05:49:41 pm »
None
Admin buttons suck :notworthy:
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LeedsFan

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Re: how many admin buttons
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2010, 04:11:35 pm »
and as they say..... it's my joystick, and i'll stick it where i like  >:D

Haha!  So true!  Peeps on these boards try to offer help and advice. But sometimes we just don't know that there is a perfectly valid reason for someone doing something that doesn't look "the norm". I wish you well with it.  :cheers: