how many admin buttons

[gazz292]

i'm re-thinking my control panel design a little,

atm i have 4 admin buttons, they are small round buttons about 20mm diamiter, i've found some nice flush ones that would look even better on my panel (i.e. you have to push the button inside the mounting bezel to activate it, no chance of hitting an admin button by mistake)

i put 4 on my cp as that's how many small switches i pulled from my cab, they used ro work the test switch, volume and that,

but i am struggeling to think what i'd use 4 for... i deffo want an escape and tab switch, pause could be handy i guess, but are there any other admin buttons that would benefit from a dedicated switch?? (yes i know i can do it all with the shift function on the mini-pac, but i want dedicated admin buttons)

i've also been thinking of putting in a double pole change over button which will switch 2 of the fire buttons connections to the mouse button inputs on the mini-pac, so i dont need dedicated mouse buttons, but can press the switch, then use 2 of the fire buttons as left and right mouse buttons, to be used with the trackball for altering things on the cab without the need to pull a mouse out.

does this sound like a silly idea? the button to activate the mouse buttons would be up by the admin buttons, so not in the way, and it'll iliminate to show it's active.

[DrFrag]

Escape, Tab, Pause, Pause Frame Advance, Power, Reset, Load State, Save State, Turbo, Screenshot, Reset Game, Volume Up/Down, Mute, Frame Skip, Fraps Record.

[Endaar]

I've got pause, tab, reset and exit. Reset isn't that necessary but I had the fourth button for symmetry.

Endaar

[gazz292]

lol, a franken panel with an admin button for every possible choice... maybe not.

i am thinking 3 buttons are all thats really needed too, if i need any more i can make them shifted buttons, but the ones i'd be pressing all the time would be tab and escape, pause is handy,

i guess i could put the mouse button change over button with the admin buttons and that'd be the 4th one, i can get momentary and latching flush buttons of the same style,

[Marsupial]

none.!!!


use a shift key (instead of a button, I used a switchkey, so it really is a key)
and have your normal buttons do the trick!

[pinballwizard79]

None +1

[JustMichael]

I have just 3.  I have a "enter/exit" (enters Mame from frontend and exits back to frontend from Mame), Pause, Reset (reset Mame).  I think most "admin" buttons are useless.  Why?  Aren't you supposed to be playing and not administrating the cabinet?  If you need to admin stuff, use a keyboard and mouse!  Set up your cab before guests arrive.

[leapinlew]

None.

If kids come over to play, you'll wish you had none.

[wweumina]

I agree with none. 

I started with 2 (pause and exit).  I've since re-done the panel and removed them. 

Alternatively, if you are determined, consider putting them in the pinball flipper position.  It keeps the panel itself clean.

[Pingaloka]

Yep, that's how I have them. In the pinball possition I have pause on the left and and enter on the right.
On the panel itself I have volume up volume down and a button for credits.
Inside the Coin door I have tab and reset, so no one messes with that around.
Reset I don't think is so important, as once each game is configured no reset is needed.

[LeedsFan]

If you have admin buttons at least hide them. Kids will press anything. The only extra buttons I would consider on a cab would be Exit and coin inputs for both P1 and P2. (Some games use separate coin inputs for P2). At least those three buttons are self explanatory for guests using your machine and you don't need to keep explaining to them to press and hold P1 then press button 1 for credits for example. The amount of times I had to explain stuff... I got sick of it in the end.  

And I don't consider coin inputs as admin buttons anyway. It's just that you can get by without separate coin buttons using the shift function.

I wouldn't even have a Pause button on there personally. Real arcade games didn't have them :p. But it's your cab your choice.

[Crazy Cooter]

Two: Exit & Pause.  Both of them labeled.

[DaveMMR]

I used to say "none", but a small "Exit Game" (ESC) button is pretty handy (don't let it exit your front-end, however).  So "one".   Everything else hidden with a shift.  (Maybe add pause if you have the room to spare).

I like using odd Radio Shack buttons for admin (i.e. Exit) buttons as it doesn't look or travel like regular buttons and isn't accidentally pressed by over-enthusiastic guests.

[ptinolv]

I have : exit, pause, reset and fast forward. For more complicated stuff, i have a wireless keyboard.

I think this depends on the way you play , or if you have a lot of kids arounds messing with every buttons, etc...

[severdhed]

Less is better.  On one of my cabinets, I have 2: pause and exit.  On my other cabinet, I have 1 button that is both pause (quick press) and exit (press and hold for 2 seconds).  Everything else is done with button combos

P1 start + p1 b6 brings up tab menu,  p1 start + p1b5 OS fast forward,  etc.

[javeryh]

Keep it as simple as possible.  I use coin, pause and exit on all of my cabs.  That's the list.  If there is a coin door with a reject button I'll rig that for coin and have even one less admin button.

[Hoopz]

19 is the minimum, 22 is acceptable.

[gazz292]

Hmmmmm, now i'm wondering what to do,

no kids will ever play this machine, dont have any friends with kids, but if i did, there's a key switch on the cab, not sure what it was for on the origional game (golden tee) but i could run the commons from admin switches via the key switch, so when it's off, pressing those buttons wont do a thing anyway, but they are handily placed for getting into the config settings to change the difficulty of a game or change other dip switches and button assignments.

or i could put the buttons back in the coin box like the cab had origionaly,

i know i'll deffo want an exit button, prolly pause,

if i think about it, i only want the admin buttons on the cp so they are easy to get at... which will only be for when i'm setting the machine up, once it's set up those buttons wont be used, so i rekon having them in the coin box is best,
i have 4 spaces in there, so i'd have TAB for entering settings, F2 for entering service mode in games that support it, erm.... 2 more admin functions i could use in there? (origionaly had volume buttons in there, but i now have a dial on the front of the cp box to control the volume)

Maybe a 'show fps' button?

The only reason i wanted the admin buttons easily accessable was for the time when i want to make a single quick change to a game, i.e. change the fire button assignment (one of my friends likes to play bubble bobble with joystick up as jump, as opposed to button 2 as jump, but i guess i could make up an i-pac keycode reasignment file to load when that awkward player comes round

[justinjstark]

What do you all use a "tab" button for?  I usually just have pause and exit along with a coin and start for each player.

[Hoopz]

What do you all use a "tab" button for?  I usually just have pause and exit along with a coin and start for each player.

Having a tab button opens the door to all kinds of problems.  I would avoid having that button above all things. Tab allows you to enter the Mame configuration menu.

[VanillaGorilla]

Having a tab button opens the door to all kinds of problems.  I would avoid having that button above all things. Tab allows you to enter the Mame configuration menu.

+100

[LeedsFan]

One thing you could do is just make sure there is a USB port easily available on the cab. I do this with all my projects now. Then you can simply plug in any mouse/keyboard and change stuff on the fly. I would never have a TAB button on the panel. It's just lazy and asking for trouble in my opinion.

[ranma]

Having a tab button opens the door to all kinds of problems.  I would avoid having that button above all things. Tab allows you to enter the Mame configuration menu.

Agree, I like my cab to be like a kiosk, no way for the user to mess up the settings in any way; you cant count on them, even if they are your friends, they could screw up without noticing.

I have 1 admin button, Exit while in game and "extra info" while in the menu, it's a customization that shows certain sections of history.dat about the current selected game. Everything else (which is settings, once in a while) I do it with a keyboard that is hidden on the cab. Volume control is accessible opening the coin door.

[Jefferson]

Personal taste, but fewer the better.

I have 3 black buttons at top center labelled Play Pause Exit.  Intended for frontend navigation.  Now I know I could have gotten away with just Pause and Exit.

'Play' is wired the same as P1B1, so even that can throw people for a tick.  (I thought with both of them doing the same thing itd be MORE intuitive... but when it says 'press start' people often press PLAY.  Retards, I know.  But it goes to show my plan wasnt exactly intuitive.)

SHIFTED FUNCTIONS ARE YOUR FRIEND.  I use P1 for mame menu, PCB menu, FF, and save states.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Two: Exit & Pause.  Both of them labeled.

This is what I would do for my new cab, but if you are using Maximus Arcade as your front end you'll want a "back" button too.

D

[MAME TIME]

just exit, no need for anything else, i barley even take out my keyboard, i never saw the reason for a pause button.

[wweumina]

just exit, no need for anything else, i barley even take out my keyboard, i never saw the reason for a pause button.

Depends on the games you play.  Anyone doing marathon Track and Field games will appreciate a toilet break every now and then..

I think the general consensus is that most people building a cab for the first time think they'll need about 5 admin buttons.  Most who've had one in from of them for a while think 0-2 (and those hidden or at least clearly labelled).

[Marsupial]

they way I wired mine, if you don't have the admin key, its like a real arcade machine. no pause, no exit, no nothing. Real arcade machine.

Now, the key is for changing games or config, so the normal buttons are used with that and its great.
Plus, you never "accidentally" exit a game. Which is annoying.


Depends what you're trying to do.
If you want to recreate the look and feel of a reel arcade machine, admin shift key and no admin buttons.
If you want to rig up as many things you want on a cabinet, you're always welcomed to put 104 pushbuttons; its your rig.

This is really a personnal taste discussion...

I know that - kid or no kid - I wouldn't want admin buttons when it really is not required; shift function is the best to keep the original look and feel. So for me adding extra buttons is NOT desired.

[LeedsFan]

I always remember the comment on the CrapMame site... "someone spilled a bag of Skittles across the control panel".  I sprayed coffee at that one!  

EDIT:   dug it out :p   http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/10.html

[Osirus23]

No admin buttons. The Opti-Pac's shift functions take care of anything I need to do.

[severdhed]

Without a dedicated exit button, it is not intuitive enough for guests.  I could do without pause if I had to.

[Hoopz]

No admin buttons. The I-Pac's shift functions take care of anything I need to do.

Fixt

[gazz292]

aye, i know about the mini-pac's shift feature,

but like has been said, it'll soon get annoying to hear every 2 minutes 'gaaaaazz, i dont like this game, how do i get rid of it and try another one again'
then 'gaaaaaaazz, i did what you said, pressed P1 start and xx button, but that didnt work, so i tried P1 start and i hit every other button there was, and now it wont do anything'

so i'd need to label all the shifted buttons, so i may as well have a couple of admin buttons.

exit deffinately, pause very handy, and a coin button for when i dont want to pop a token in the mech (like when playing something with a coin up to continue feature, and i'm out of tokens and have never got so far before)

the tab and service buttons will be behind the cash box door, and i guess i'll use a shifted function for tab whilst i'm setting the cab up,

i'm deffo not going for the skittles look, i'm having 6 fire buttons per player, 2 joysticks which are mag sticks, so top switchable between 4 and 8 way, a trackball, p1 and p2 start, a spinner,

and 3 smaller flush buttons for exit, pause and coin.

is my cp re-design so far, not added the spinner yet, not sure where to put it atm, and not put the admin buttons on yet either.

[Marsupial]

I use a KEY for the shift... nobody can get confused with that.

I had my nephew here. He's 8. Gave him the key. Said: "turn the key, press this button, then you can select a new game. Enjoy". He didn't have any problems the whole evening.

now.... I went to a friend's place, his cab had about 12 admins buttons. I still don't know how to start/stop/pause/exit being that I always ended up trying a bunch of buttons everytime before managing to do anything.

What's better?

Now, even if you're dead on adding keys, you don't HAVE to have everything on separate keys. You could have what you consider "essential" on actual keys, and the rest (like TAB - you won't use that all the time, and would rather not have guests use it) in shifted functions.


but... in real life... guests always prefer to actually ask you to change games. Being that they don't know your machine, your games, or even what they want to play.

And... get tokens. Makes the whole arcade feel more realistic, really!

[severdhed]

the key idea is cool, and i agree totally that having a bunch of admin buttons that arent labeled is confusing.  I think all admin buttons should be clearly labeled.  I have a clearly labled exit button on my panels, and i instruct people that they need to hold it down for 2 to 3 seconds to exit.  after that, nobody has to ask me to do anything.  i can't imagine having to go over and change the game everytime someone wanted a different one. 

[gazz292]

tokens, i run all my machines on pachislo tokens (i have 5 fruit machines (slot machines in america i think.. ones a one armed bandit) a pachislo machine, pinball machine and the video machine i'm making, to keep them all in real money would cost me a fortune, so i made them all run on the tokens i have hundereds of,

i've just had the coin validator off the video machine re-programmed to accept my tokens,

and a little while ago i built a token dispenser, press a button and it spits out 50 tokens.. just an old fruit machine coin hopper (bit that pays out) and a circuit to pulse the hoppers input 50 times, it then counts out 50 tokens.

i even thought of getting an old train station toilet door pay lock, but my GF wouldent let me for some reason, i just love the coin op experiance, especialy as i own the keys and can play operator at the end of the day and go round the machines emptying them 

Anyhoo, i think i've decided on an 'EXIT' and a 'PAUSE' button on the CP, along with a coin button, the other admin buttons will be inside the coin box door,

Just the location of the spinner to figure out now.

[LeedsFan]

Why is Player 2's joystick on the right hand side? 

Other than that I think it looks clean. And you could wire up the coin reject button as a credit button so keeping one less button off the panel.

[gazz292]

it's not, P1's joystick is on the right hand side 

i have arthritis which affects my fingers, plus i've always been an awkward bugger, i had a 'joyboard' with my amiga back in the day, which has the joystick on the right, buttons on the left, so i kinda grew up using joysticks ass backwards.

i did origionally have both sticks on the right, but found my fingers on the fire buttons can only last 45 mins at the most, and if i swapped over to the other stick (after re-asigning the controls) i could play another 45 minutes before my left fingers locked up,

and as they say..... it's my joystick, and i'll stick it where i like 

[CathalDublin]

None
Admin buttons suck

[LeedsFan]

and as they say..... it's my joystick, and i'll stick it where i like 

Haha!  So true!  Peeps on these boards try to offer help and advice. But sometimes we just don't know that there is a perfectly valid reason for someone doing something that doesn't look "the norm". I wish you well with it. 

[Jack Burton]

Wire a "shift" button to a switch next to the test and service buttons in your cabinet.  Map all your admin functions to each your controls plus the shift button.

When you want to do admin stuff on your cab unlock the coin door, flip the switch and all your controls become shifted to admin functions.  When you're done exit your menus, unflip the switch and lock the door up.

[JustMichael]

One last thing to keep in mind with "admin" buttons, keep them out of sight or make sure their layout makes sense on the cabinet.  Simply put you don't want to accidentally hit them.

[Marsupial]

and a little while ago i built a token dispenser, press a button and it spits out 50 tokens.. just an old fruit machine coin hopper (bit that pays out) and a circuit to pulse the hoppers input 50 times, it then counts out 50 tokens.

please do post (or PM me) pictures and details.
I am looking at making one myself, would greatly use your idea.

what's a coin hopper??


for the spinner... I too am looking at that. Some people put them in the front of the machine, I want to try that out before drilling mine. 

[ranma]

and a little while ago i built a token dispenser, press a button and it spits out 50 tokens.. just an old fruit machine coin hopper (bit that pays out) and a circuit to pulse the hoppers input 50 times, it then counts out 50 tokens.

please do post (or PM me) pictures and details.
I am looking at making one myself, would greatly use your idea.

what's a coin hopper??


for the spinner... I too am looking at that. Some people put them in the front of the machine, I want to try that out before drilling mine. 

Sorry to continue the offtopic, but I was looking for the same as well, maybe create a thread with some detail? 

[gazz292]

a coin hopper is a hopper, (as in it holds a large ammount of things... coins in this case), and it spits them out via an electric motor and cointing system when instructed to do so,

they are found in almost all modern slot machines to pay out the winnings.

i have a rought write up of how i did my token dispenser at http://www.freewebs.com/ratsarsearcade/tokendispenser.htm

i have changed it a little since that write up, i no longer have the coin validator, and instead have a button and a simple circuit using a couple of 555 timers to generate 50 pulses, which feed the hoppers input wire, and makes it count out 50 tokens.

i am in the UK btw, so terminoligy may be strange, i imagine you can get universal hoppers in america, or something similar, i chose that as it's self contained electronics wise, it will spit out one coin for every pulse you send it on one of the wires,

a lot of hoppers only have a motor and opto's, the counting is done by the main processor in the host machine,

i guess if you dont want a specific ammount of tokens spat out, then get a pachislo token hopper (from a pachislo machine) and just run a button to powe the motor when pressed,

you just hold the button till you have enough tokens, pachislo hoppers are extremely fast at spitting tokens out,

[Erik]

How about those that installed admin buttons post some pics?

 

[severdhed]

ok, here are some pics of my two panels.

first one is from my vertical classics cabinet, there are two admin buttons, a red one on the left at the back of the panel, and a blue one on the right at the back of the panel.  both of these are translucent iL buttons that are illuminated and have novagem label inserts for exit (red) and pause(blue).  i plan on eventually replacing the yellow and blue buttons with red ones, but i just used what i had on hand at the time.


here is my 4player showcase panel, it is obviously not finished yet, but you can see the single admin button at the back in the center.  this button is pause with a quick press, and exit if you hold it for 2 seconds.

ignore the tiny monitor, this was an early pic


here you can see a closer pic of the button lit up.

[Vulgar Soul]

I'm also in the concept stage of my first cab. Jus curious, is there a way to quickly toggle video settings - specifically bezel/instruction card artwork - without having to go into the TAB menu? Because the artwork options are the only reason I'd consider a TAB button on my CP. Other than that I'd never need it, nor want it exposed to a bunch of eager players.

I'm personally sticking to a purist approach, and trying to keep as much flare, clutter, and too much intuitiveness from my CP/cabinet as possible. Maybe an Exit/Menu button, but no pause button, no open admin options, no fast forward, no save, and definitely no free credit button. I'd much prefer tokens/quarters.

Everyone gets a limited number of tokens, you get on, you play with real credit/currency on the line, try and complete the game or get a good score with what you have, and when you run out, that continue screen WILL be counting down to zero. Nothing more and nothing less than the real deal.

Of course everyone's welcome to get a new batch of tokens afterward, but distributed and moderated per play. If I did use a credit button, I'd have it locked, hidden, and moderated.

I don't know how anyone can take the time to passionately put a cabinet in their home and tolerate people playing through these games with free credits. Y'all must have a real cool circle of trusty friends, cus 90% of the fools I know will complain "wah wah these games are too hard!!" and than throw in as much free credits just to beat the whole game and never play it the way it was intended lol. It's all good though, but for the good of the games, I'm kind of against too much admin buttons myself.

[Erik]

When the admin buttons are near the edges it seems like kids would accidentally hit them while spectating.

Cup holder?  Nice!      Great idea for a CPO btw

[severdhed]

my panel is relatively high off the ground, and my kids are young (both under 4) so they can't actually see the buttons unless they are standing on something.   my little one (will be 2 in december) sometimes will stand on the stairs next to the cabinet and reach over and hit the exit button, which is why i have it set up so that you have to hold it for about 3 seconds before it will exit.

the cupholders are going to go away i think.  i dont like the way they look and i hardly ever use them.  i need to repaint the sides of my cabinet at some point, so when i do, i will remove the cup holders.

the control panel overlay was done because I am cheap.  i want to eventually do a custom designed one.  that was a poster i picked up at WalMart for $5.  it isnt' exactly what i wanted, but it is Mario, so it will do until i can make my own.  i wasnt sure if i was going to like having control panel artwork, this is the first time i have used any kind of artwork on my panels.

[gazz292]

it really seems that the people who dont have admin buttons on the cp either want to emulate a real arcade machine totaly, or know people who like pressing random buttons to see what they do, even if they've been told not to press it as it'll screw everything up.

we dont have kids, or any plans to have any, and our friends are pretty good at not doing things we tell them not to (if they didnt they'd prolly be dead by now considering all the dangerous tools in the shed, places they could electrocute them selfs if they poked about whre they shouldent and so on)

but i'm still going to have my TAB button inside the coin door, and an exit, pause and coin button on the cp, when i am setting the cab up first time, i'll re-map TAB to the pause button.

[Vulgar Soul]

it really seems that the people who dont have admin buttons on the cp either want to emulate a real arcade machine totaly, or know people who like pressing random buttons to see what they do, even if they've been told not to press it as it'll screw everything up.

we dont have kids, or any plans to have any, and our friends are pretty good at not doing things we tell them not to (if they didnt they'd prolly be dead by now considering all the dangerous tools in the shed, places they could electrocute them selfs if they poked about whre they shouldent and so on)

but i'm still going to have my TAB button inside the coin door, and an exit, pause and coin button on the cp, when i am setting the cab up first time, i'll re-map TAB to the pause button.

It's a matter of preference. Most people like having a versatile MAME or even console emulators cabinet. On the other hand I've seen plenty of talented builders here who regret adding too much. Personally, I just don't think too much options are practical or even useful for straight Arcade gaming.

I plan to have my cabinet set up in sort of a family/guest basement game room and I'd rather save myself the time and hassle of moderating a cabinet with all those options and stick to a pure cabinet. But that's just me. If your arcade is gonna be amongst cool, trusting, mature friends than I think havin free credits, pause, and TAB options would be cool. Maybe hide the TAB as a switch for administrative use at best and you be straight.

For a while I was really debating if my cabinet would even be better running only one game that I would switch up from time to time rather than have a menu with hundreds or thousands. For my game room plans I'm really not down with the whole ALL-IN-ONE ULTIMATE HOME ARCADE cabs that will just confuse and probably alienate people lol, but in your case I think it'll be fun.

[gazz292]

yup, i totally agree, we build these cabs because we want something custom, personalized, something for us to enjoy, so we should make it the way we want.

i'm personaly building my cab for me and my GF, were the ones who will be using it 99% of the time, hence why i put a joystick 'on the wrong side' my GF just can't get on with joysticks in her left hand, i also find it much easier using left for joystick, and right for buttons, so origionaly i had both sticks as right hand drive.

but i then found out that the joints in my hands are worse than i realised, so i put one stick 'normal' one 'ass backwards'
this has the advantage of allowing someone who comes round to play if they are used to normal arcade games and find the stick in the left hand too weird to cope,

but i'm not building my cab for them, like i went for 6 fire buttons per player, back when i decided on that, people said 'but what about when someone comes round and wants to play the fighting games that need 8 buttons'

i said, tuff, i dont like the fighting games, and if they go away thinking my cab is crap cos of that, then it's only them who will be bothered, i'll tell them to build their own cab with 8 buttons if it's that big a deal.

[LeedsFan]

but i'm not building my cab for them, like i went for 6 fire buttons per player, back when i decided on that, people said 'but what about when someone comes round and wants to play the fighting games that need 8 buttons'

Are there any arcade games that used 8 buttons? Not counting console fighters.....

[Vulgar Soul]

but i'm not building my cab for them, like i went for 6 fire buttons per player, back when i decided on that, people said 'but what about when someone comes round and wants to play the fighting games that need 8 buttons'

Are there any arcade games that used 8 buttons? Not counting console fighters.....

LOL thats what I'm wondering. Console gaming on an arcade cabinet just doesn't seem right to me anyway.

You must have some real tough friends if they'll get at you for not havin 8 buttons and every game ever made lol. I feel you though, I already have my Hyperspin FE set up and a crappy mock joystick I wired together (With a Reebok shoe box lol) and everytime I show it to some friends there's always one jackass that asks "Are there like, any games from today on this!?" Makes me wanna bang my head against the wall lol. Can't satisfy everyone. If people love it than great, but built it for you first. Got a wifey or a circle of friends that loved the arcades? They're second priority. The rest of the haters are welcome to go play Call of Duty or something lol.