Once again, about buttons

[unska]

Hey, I'm new to the forum and to the whole scene actually. I'm curious to know if there's something I missed on my "Wanted Buttons" -list below;

player 1
- u360
- 6 buttons for playing
- 1 player button
- coin button

player 2
- u360
- 6 buttons playing
- 2 player button
- coin button

admin
- pause / play button
- exit button
- save button
- load button

pinball
- 4 buttons

other
- ipac 2

---------------------------------

Do you know if the "Push Button Graphic Inserts" from GGG (Link) work with the basic happ buttons? If no, then is there a place where I could buy ones that could be inserted on top of those or either the ChromaLite buttons from GGG.

Oh and if I order the stuff from GGG and Ultimarc, will I have to buy some sort of wires or are they included? If no, then how much do I need to buy it? Is there anything else I have to buy to hook them up?

[oyama82]

you will need cables with harness,you can buy from electronics shops
also I would buy 7 pushbuttons for each player,not six(so you can play both neogeo and street fighters easily)
as for the joysticks I dont agree to buy u360s but its your decision

[bpark42]

as for the joysticks I dont agree to buy u360s but its your decision

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but if you are going to post something like this it would probably be more useful to the OP if you said why you don't agree...

Anyhow, to the OP,
You have a good basic setup there.  Different people have different priorities in terms of admin buttons.  Don't forget you can always use the shift functionality of the ipac for additional admin functions.

I don't have any experience with the inserts, but it looks like they are designed to fit in a standard happ-like translucent button.  You asked about "basic" buttons, so if you mean the standard non-translucent one then you will probably have a hard time seeing the inserts   

As for wiring,
The u360's just connect straight to usb (pretty sure they come with the necessary cables.)  If you want to connect the buttons to the sticks instead of the ipac then you will probably want to buy the harness along with the sticks.

Wiring buttons to the ipac is easy enough.  Just get some basic 22ish-gauge wire (stranded hookup wire) and some crimp on quick-disconnects.  If you need the crimp tool as well you can just buy ultimarc's wiring kit.  It has all of the above, though depending on the microswitches you use you might need to get some different sized disconnects.

[unska]

Thank you for the replies.

Is the 7 button required on the classic streetfighters or only in the SF4? As I am not going to play the SF4 on the mame. Do you have any layout for the 7 button system?

This KNIEVEL KUSTOMS guy has some nice buttons with labels on them, do you know how they are done?

[mmb]

You can get the button vinyl from Pongo in his Buy/Sell/Trade thread

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64645.0

[oyama82]

the 7 buttons are required to have an easy panel for both neogeo and street fighter games

the reason I wouldnt buy the u360s is because they dont have the original arcade feeling
you better go with 2 happ,seimitsu,sanwa or zippyy sticks
and I would put a seimitsu stick modified for 4way in the middle of the control panel,to play the older games like pacman

[bpark42]

the 7 buttons are required to have an easy panel for both neogeo and street fighter games

7 is not necessary for any of the classic street fighter games, as far as I am aware (I don't play fighters very often)...However I agree that it is worth having 4 buttons in the bottom row for neo geo games.

the reason I wouldnt buy the u360s is because they dont have the original arcade feeling

Aside from the lack of "clickiness" for people who are used to microswitch joysticks, I think a u360 with a restrictor plate fitted feels just fine in terms "original arcade feeling".  But again this is a matter of opinion and personal preference.

and I would put a seimitsu stick modified for 4way in the middle of the control panel,to play the older games like pacman

There is something to be said for a physically restricted 4-way.  GGG sells a dedicated "True4" 4-way that is very reasonably priced.

[Ginsu Victim]

7 is not necessary for any of the classic street fighter games, as far as I am aware (I don't play fighters very often)

That's not what he was saying.

[ragnar]

unaska,

Neo Geo had alot of good fighting games.  If you go through the "Post your CP thread" you will see many 7 button layouts.  3 on the top row, 4 on the bottom.  Those bottom 4 buttons mimic the Neo Geo layout.  So, for an esxtra $2 per player you get the actual Neo Geo layout.  At the same time, you get the 6 button layout that Street Fighter used.

This is what i am doing, but since I have hte u360s already, I am actually adding two more buttons to the right for N64 support (8 buttons needed).  But I want a diamond like shape to mimic the N64s "c-pad".  It's an extra $4 per player so I'd rather do it now and not use it than not do it and regret it later.

That last sentence is key though regarding 7 buttons.  It's easier to do it now and not use it than to do 6 buttons now and regret it later.

Read up on Neo Geo fighting games.  There are some good ones (Samarai Showdown) that rival the Street Fighter series.

[oyama82]

actually neogeo fighters are much better than capcom ones
king of fighters 2002 for example
so you need 7 buttons as I and the other guys suggested,4 buttons to the bottom and 3 upper

[eds1275]

I think that is a seriously debatable statement, and based only on a player's preference. Arguing about it would be a waste of time, and there would be no victoly.

[Rick]

Arguing about it would be a waste of time, and there would be no victoly.

Frawless victoly?

 

[oyama82]

if you build a cab you need to play everything as much as possible
7 button panel is a serious matter that you shouldnt throw it away easily
we dont talk about mahjong games here but for neogeo,a whole history

[eds1275]

Arguing about it would be a waste of time, and there would be no victoly.

Frawless victoly?

 

No, the usual Samurai Shodown Victoly. Personally I like the MK games, then the Capcom and Neo Geos, in that order. But they are all good. And sometimes, the bad ones are so bad they are fun[ny] to play.

[Ginsu Victim]

There are curved 6-button layouts that allow you to still have a Neo Geo type layout within it:



Disregarding the 7th button, you can configure this setup to use the bottom-left button as A, and the top row as B, C, and D.

[oyama82]

not this one the correct is with 4 buttons to below not above

[Ginsu Victim]

not this one the correct is with 4 buttons to below not above

Are you disregarding the 7th button like I said?

This is an alternative to the standard 7-button. It's 6-button with a Neo Geo layout within. Some people have used it and liked it. I've not tried it myself. I'm offering options.

Like Hoopz said in the other thread, everything isn't black and white.

[oyama82]

whatever,I am bored of arguing with everyone

[Ginsu Victim]

You said "7 button panel is a serious matter that you shouldnt throw it away easily" and I was showing that you can pull off the same setup with only 6 buttons.

Matter of fact, you could map it like this
BCD
ABC

That way you can play most Neo Geo games with the bottom row, and play fighters using the first button plus the top row.

[oyama82]

yes but its not the correct one
if you can understand it or else,its ok

[Ginsu Victim]

yes but its not the correct one
if you can understand it or else,its ok

Again, why is everything black and white with you? There is no right way. It's whatever works for the user. The layout still has the same basic curve of the Neo Geo layout.

[oyama82]

it has it but in the wrong place
if its ok for you,its 1000 times ok for me

[Ginsu Victim]

English isn't your first language, is it?

[Hoopz]

yes but its not the correct one
if you can understand it or else,its ok

Correct, for what?  A CP that plays everything like you said above?

if you build a cab you need to play everything as much as possible
7 button panel is a serious matter that you shouldnt throw it away easily
we dont talk about mahjong games here but for neogeo,a whole history

Some people build cabs that only play a few games.  There is a recent thread about the difference between 2 button gmaes and 3 button games.  Just because he/she is building a cab, doesn't mean it has to play everything.  You may want it to do that, but not everyone else does.

And some people do play Mahjong games.  I'd say that they're quite popular based on the sheer number that are in Mame.

[oyama82]

nope,greek is

[oyama82]

ok if a westerner plays mahjong,I apologise to him 

[Hoopz]

ok if a westerner plays mahjong,I apologise to him 

And that's not ethnocentric....   Hell, start talking about Occidental and Oriental now too! 

Ok, that's a stretch to argue about.  I admit it....

[bkenobi]

The only correct CP design has 5 buttons per player because MK is the ONLY game worth playing.  If you want, you can add a 6th button for run, but that's only used in the newer MK games that suck.

[oyama82]

yeah sure....

[EvilNuff]

Slightly off topic but in the 'typical' 7 button config I see, how are the buttons wired?  IE:

Code: [Select]

   ( )  ( ) ( )
   ( )  ( ) ( )
( )
is this typically wired as:
   (1)  (2) (3)
   (4)  (5) (6)
(1)
With 1, 4, 5, 6 used as the neo geo a b c d?

[oyama82]

exactly
and also for most games

[JustMichael]

For those arguing (not meant to offend anyone though):

[oyama82]

but you insult the retarted

[jimmy2x2x]

if only you could bottle it 

[Ginsu Victim]

Slightly off topic but in the 'typical' 7 button config I see, how are the buttons wired?  IE:

Code: [Select]

  ( )  ( ) ( )
   ( )  ( ) ( )
( )
is this typically wired as:
   (1)  (2) (3)
   (4)  (5) (6)
(1)
With 1, 4, 5, 6 used as the neo geo a b c d?

Mine is weird. It's:
456
123
    7(4)

[oyama82]

yes its weird
its not comfortable for your fingers(for neogeo games)

[Ginsu Victim]

yes its weird
its not comfortable for your fingers(for neogeo games)

No, it's not comfortable for YOUR fingers. It's MY control panel and it works fine for ME.

Now that I've said that, the next control panel I do won't have that layout.  

[oyama82]

ok pal,take it easy 

[Ginsu Victim]

It was my first layout. It's nice not to configure controls for each game, but it IS backwards. I won't be doing one like it again. (I'll use the config in the picture above (and by "picture above," I mean the retarded kid))

[oyama82]

as you like 

[Ginsu Victim]

Hey, at least we agreed that my current layout is weird.

[oyama82]

yes
you arent very familiar with arcades 

[Ginsu Victim]

yes
you arent very familiar with arcades  

Dude.......


.....someone hold me back.

[Rick]

* Rick Elphinstone holds Ginsu back.

you arent very familiar with arcades  

Don't worry Ginsu.  You have more knowledge of arcades than oyama82 has with video cards.  For that, I'm proud of you.

 

[oyama82]

are you computer technician or lawyer?

[bpark42]

7 is not necessary for any of the classic street fighter games, as far as I am aware (I don't play fighters very often)

That's not what he was saying.

The OP asked specifically:

Is the 7 button required on the classic streetfighters...

Every once in a while we have to actually answer the questions asked by the posters instead of just drifting off into personal debates 

[jimmy2x2x]

Is that your answer?

[Ginsu Victim]

7 is not necessary for any of the classic street fighter games, as far as I am aware (I don't play fighters very often)

That's not what he was saying.

The OP asked specifically:

Is the 7 button required on the classic streetfighters...

Every once in a while we have to actually answer the questions asked by the posters instead of just drifting off into personal debates 

Yeah, I've since read the thread better and realized what you were saying. Since my post would put me on oyama's side, I definitely back up YOUR side.

[oyama82]

I dont need anyone in my side,if you dont agree with my opinions its ok

[Ginsu Victim]

I dont need anyone in my side,if you dont agree with my opinions its ok

No one is and no one does.

[oyama82]

ok you go play mortal kombat now

[Rick]

ok you go play mortal kombat now

God, I hope he has onboard video, or else it'll NEVER work!

 

[Ginsu Victim]

ok you go play mortal kombat now

Ugh, God no...

[oyama82]

you have to answer me to one question:are you a computer engineer or a lawyer?

[Ginsu Victim]

you have to answer me to one question:are you a computer engineer or a lawyer?

You asking Rick or me?

[oyama82]

rick ofcourse

[Ginsu Victim]

 

[oyama82]

he hasnt got the guts to answer me?

[Rick]

he hasnt got the guts to answer me?

That has been asked and answered already.

...I have been a computer technician for over 20+ years now, and currently hold the position of "National Technical Consultant" for Canada's largest shipping company.

Any more questions?  Better still, any relevant questions?

[DashRendar]

I feel dumber having read this thread.

[oyama82]

so you are a computer engineer
you should have been a lawyer instead because as a pc engineer you are a ''0''

[Ginsu Victim]

What's with the GameFAQs/IMDb style troll we've got here? It's amateur hour.

You're gonna have to try a lot harder.

[Ginsu Victim]

I feel dumber having read this thread.

I feel bad for all the clean-up poor Saint is going to get stuck with on this thread.

[CheffoJeffo]

Who is the funny little troll ?

* CheffoJeffo runs off the check oyama82's other posts because this guy is gold!

[saint]

so you are a computer engineer
you should have been a lawyer instead because as a pc engineer you are a ''0''

Quit. Quit quit quit quit quit.

[Ginsu Victim]

Funny, that's the post that I thought would do it.

[CheffoJeffo]

Hey, yomama -- you should probably change your personal text before saint changes it for you ... 

11. Signatures, avatars, and the like. I wish they wouldn't, but fights between users are going to happen from time to time. Those will be dealt with as appropriate, if necessary (this is usually not the case). However, regardless of the individual threads that spark an argument, forum users should not let these arguments spill over to the rest of the forum. Please do not post snippets of the arguments or jabs at one another in your signature, avatar, unrelated posts, etc. Violators may find themselves with a new signature/avatar/etc selected by saint that they won't be able to change. saint has a nasty sense of humor. This rule is to stop specific arguments from polluting the rest of the forum. This rule applies to individual users -- it does not apply to commercial interests. You may post a thought (politely, please) about a vendor in your signature if you feel the need, but keep it from being obnoxious please.

[oyama82]

look your own business jeffoleffo

[Ginsu Victim]

Hey, yomama -- you should probably change your personal text before saint changes it for you ... 

He sent me a PM to show it off, and I told him to take a look at the rules, and he said I have no sense of humour.

[CheffoJeffo]

And now he seems to be picking on Ginsu ... I dunno whether to put this guy on Ignore or add him to my Buddy List!

[oyama82]

I am not picking ginsu
he is my friend

[Ginsu Victim]

I am not picking ginsu
he is my friend

Your English is definitely broken, then.

[oyama82]

jeffoleffo wants me to hate you,I dont know why

[CheffoJeffo]

Sheer entertainment value ? 



Seriously -- you and I both know that you changed your personal message from talking about Rick to talking about Ginsu after Ginsu posted about your PM.

[Ginsu Victim]

Seriously -- you and I both know that you changed your personal message from talking about Rick to talking about Ginsu after Ginsu posted about your PM.

I left work thirty minutes ago and just got here. Looks like I missed out on the fun.

[Hoopz]

I'm making book that he's the new version of Tranq, shorthair, Ummon and whoever else that thing came up with.

3-2 that he's is.

Also, it's going off at 5-2 that he's banned before the end of August. 

We've got even money that his IP is in the continental US. 

Step right up folks, everyone is a winner.  Well, except troll-boy.

The first response back to CheffoJeffo answered the question.   

[DaOld Man]

Why cant we all just get along?

[unska]

Whoah so much replies, I wish most of them weren't trolling / flaming though  

So What if I just went in for the 8 button layout shown below:



So would this suffice or can you think about any other buttons I need?

player 1
- u360
- 8 buttons for playing
- 1 player button
- coin button

player 2
- u360
- 8 buttons playing
- 2 player button
- coin button

admin
- pause / play button
- exit button
- save button
- load button

pinball
- 4 buttons

other
- ipac 2

PS. I am not looking a superb arcade feeling, I'm looking for playability (is that a word?) and having fun with friends, while having to hassle with the equipment as little as possible.

[oyama82]

this is the best for me

[unska]

You can get the button vinyl from Pongo in his Buy/Sell/Trade thread

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64645.0

Thank you very much.

[CheffoJeffo]

In a PM that I received related to this thread (from someone who has posted regarding authenticity), I was told that Wico sticks are not authentic arcade equipment.

Maybe I really don't know as much as I think I do.

 

[Hoopz]

In a PM that I received related to this thread (from someone who has posted regarding authenticity), I was told that Wico sticks are not authentic arcade equipment.

Maybe I really don't know as much as I think I do.

 

Are they broken like Nintendo sticks break?

[CheffoJeffo]

I am putting the cost of this keyboard on your tab (I missed the monitor)!

 

[unska]

So will this suffice:

player 1
- u360
- 8 buttons for playing
- 1 player button
- coin button

player 2
- u360
- 8 buttons playing
- 2 player button
- coin button

admin
- pause / play button
- exit button
- save button
- load button

pinball
- 4 buttons

other
- ipac 2

And like 2 extra buttons for spare parts.

[Rick]

So will this suffice:

player 1
- u360
- 8 buttons for playing
- 1 player button
- coin button

player 2
- u360
- 8 buttons playing
- 2 player button
- coin button

admin
- pause / play button
- exit button
- save button
- load button

pinball
- 4 buttons

other
- ipac 2

And like 2 extra buttons for spare parts.

It looks good to me (but I'm new, too) so here's my Q.  When you hit "load" or "save", are there any other admin functions NOT provided by the existing buttons or joysticks?  Say, the "Enter" key, perhaps?

[Hoopz]

A lot of the admin functions can be handled by the "shift" function on the I-Pac.  Load/Save/Enter may not need dedicated buttons.  The same goes for Vol up/down, pause, and a few others.  A lot depends on your needs, the space on the CP and the desire to have everything easy for guests or first timers.

I think the list looks fine.  More than I have but it's what your comfortable with.  I don't see anything that you are leaving off that you absolutely must have.

[Rick]

A lot of the admin functions can be handled by the "shift" function on the I-Pac.  Load/Save/Enter may not need dedicated buttons.  The same goes for Vol up/down, pause, and a few others.  A lot depends on your needs, the space on the CP and the desire to have everything easy for guests or first timers.

That's what I'm concerned with.  Personally, I don't want to double-map any button to 'shift' if I don't have to (i.e. "Hey Steve, press and hold Player 1 Button 1, and then move the Player 1 Joystick down and to the left to lower the volume, would ya?") and would like to keep mine pretty simple.

[Hoopz]

A lot of the admin functions can be handled by the "shift" function on the I-Pac.  Load/Save/Enter may not need dedicated buttons.  The same goes for Vol up/down, pause, and a few others.  A lot depends on your needs, the space on the CP and the desire to have everything easy for guests or first timers.

That's what I'm concerned with.  Personally, I don't want to double-map any button to 'shift' if I don't have to (i.e. "Hey Steve, press and hold Player 1 Button 1, and then move the Player 1 Joystick down and to the left to lower the volume, would ya?") and would like to keep mine pretty simple.

There's a need for balance between simple and not cluttered.  You can have a zillion admin buttons and everything is easy to use but then you have a lot of buttons on the cp.  You can use shifted buttons which eliminates buttons but then it's a learning curve for everyone.

I keep a keyboard connected and stashed in the cabinet for some things.  Others, I go with shifted.  Turns out, I dont use the shifted buttons very much so it's not a big deal.  Again, it's what makes you happy. 

And you may find that once you've built it and played for a few months that you have a list of things to change.  Add this and take this out etc.  Hence, cabinet #2 (aka the divorce causing cabinet!).   

[Rick]

There's a need for balance between simple and not cluttered.

Agreed.

My personal point of view (sorry for the threadjack, but maybe the OP will have more questions - or better still, answers - when I'm done) is that I'm going to have Maximus Arcade loaded, and for now, just the MAME emulator loaded up.  While I wouldn't need the "Home" key mapped, I hope to have a button for that.  (I believe many people use the "Lists" decal for that one, but I might be wrong.)  If I add any other Emulators, I'm praying that they should work with the buttons I'm including - but if there's one I'm definitely missing, I'd appreciate the feedback.  That's button one on my Admin Panel.  From there, I was going to have "Esc" mapped as button two, "Enter" mapped as button three, and then a large blank space, and "Pause" mapped as button four and then five and six will be "Volume Up" and "Volume Down", respectively.

I believe that this is the 'balance' that would make it easy for anyone to use the games installed, and also without looking too cluttered.  Six buttons across a dedicated panel of two feet should still be pretty easy on the eyes.

[Hoopz]

At the risk of further hijacking this thread, here's one example of buttons gone wild.

And the obligatory link to crapmame that will make some laugh while offending others.  NSFW language on that link...

http://wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/

[jimmy2x2x]

There's a need for balance between simple and not cluttered.

Agreed.

My personal point of view (sorry for the threadjack, but maybe the OP will have more questions - or better still, answers - when I'm done) is that I'm going to have Maximus Arcade loaded, and for now, just the MAME emulator loaded up.  While I wouldn't need the "Home" key mapped, I hope to have a button for that.  (I believe many people use the "Lists" decal for that one, but I might be wrong.)  If I add any other Emulators, I'm praying that they should work with the buttons I'm including - but if there's one I'm definitely missing, I'd appreciate the feedback.  That's button one on my Admin Panel.  From there, I was going to have "Esc" mapped as button two, "Enter" mapped as button three, and then a large blank space, and "Pause" mapped as button four and then five and six will be "Volume Up" and "Volume Down", respectively.

I believe that this is the 'balance' that would make it easy for anyone to use the games installed, and also without looking too cluttered.  Six buttons across a dedicated panel of two feet should still be pretty easy on the eyes.

Im planning on similar functionality using Maximus.

I have the Enter mapped as player 1, button 1.
I have a separate pause button, which when held down for 3 seconds will exit the current emulator

This could take 2 buttons off your CP without resorting to shifted functions, but you are right its a fine balance between overwhelming guests with an army of buttons or confusing them with shifted buttons.

[Rick]

This could take 2 buttons off your CP without resorting to shifted functions, but you are right its a fine balance between overwhelming guests with an army of buttons or confusing them with shifted buttons.

I have a confession:  I lied about the guests thing.  I don't have any friends. 

Actually, what I do have is a 9 year old who likes video games and a 3 year old who likes to wake Daddy up at 5:30 a.m. every... single... morning... even on weekends.  So, I figure if I can teach them to pound buttons, I can retire to the couch and let them play nice and simple video games until I'm ready to wake up - or until my Wife wakes up and finds out I haven't fed them yet.  (Actually, that's one of my main considerations on building my own cab.  The simplicity of some of the older games.  My 3 year old plays our original XBOX and loves playing "The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer" and I'm surprised at how damn tough these newer games can be.  I'm going to load up the classics, where you have a joystick to move and a button to jump or shoot, and let them have at it.  Nice and simple.)

 

[Ginsu Victim]

I'm going to load up the classics, where you have a joystick to move and a button to jump or shoot, and let them have at it.  Nice and simple.)

 

If there's one word that doesn't apply to the classics, it's "simple." Check out the competitions we've been having, and you'll find 50 examples.

[saint]

Thread partially trimmed and put back(?) on course...

[Ginsu Victim]

Cheers. 

[WhereEaglesDare]

Thread partially trimmed and put back(?) on course...

Wow how can one guy be so dense?!  I just read this when I saw a normal everyday 7 button thread goto 3 pages?!  And then there was a whole second thread about this thread!  That guy has issues...  and Gunsu, I don't care where you put your 7th button...    you can put it on the other side of the joystick if you want...

[unska]

There's a need for balance between simple and not cluttered.

Agreed.

My personal point of view (sorry for the threadjack, but maybe the OP will have more questions - or better still, answers - when I'm done) is that I'm going to have Maximus Arcade loaded, and for now, just the MAME emulator loaded up.  While I wouldn't need the "Home" key mapped, I hope to have a button for that.  (I believe many people use the "Lists" decal for that one, but I might be wrong.)  If I add any other Emulators, I'm praying that they should work with the buttons I'm including - but if there's one I'm definitely missing, I'd appreciate the feedback.  That's button one on my Admin Panel.  From there, I was going to have "Esc" mapped as button two, "Enter" mapped as button three, and then a large blank space, and "Pause" mapped as button four and then five and six will be "Volume Up" and "Volume Down", respectively.

I believe that this is the 'balance' that would make it easy for anyone to use the games installed, and also without looking too cluttered.  Six buttons across a dedicated panel of two feet should still be pretty easy on the eyes.

Good ideas!

Im planning on similar functionality using Maximus.

I have the Enter mapped as player 1, button 1.
I have a separate pause button, which when held down for 3 seconds will exit the current emulator

This could take 2 buttons off your CP without resorting to shifted functions, but you are right its a fine balance between overwhelming guests with an army of buttons or confusing them with shifted buttons.

[unska]

Just to be on the safe side, this is what I've ended up. I figured it's enough (most will think it's too much I bet):

Player 1:

- u360
- 8 buttons for playing
- Coin button
- 1 Player button

Player 2:

- u360
- 8 buttons for playing
- Coin button
- 2 Player button

Admin:

- Enter button
- Pause button
- Menu button
- Escape button
- Load button
- Save button

Pinball:
- 4 buttons for playing, 2 on each side.

Ipac 2

How do you recommend me to change between different save slots?

[jimmy2x2x]

Change save slots by using p1/p2 start/coin buttons

Or any other buttons that give you a alpha numeric character