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Author Topic: turnarcades and ultimarc review  (Read 8106 times)

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UKShark

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turnarcades and ultimarc review
« on: August 11, 2010, 05:37:21 am »
I guess everyone uses ultimarc.com but I just want to up them as they have the best customer service and know what they are talking about.
I love ultimarc and want a T-Shirt lol.  TEN out of TEN

Ive had some issues with turnarcades, they have provided some people with fantastic cabs and have the best pre-sales service in the uk.
I dont feel my cab was upto scratch and am in the process of trying to sort it out, follow my progress with turnarcades here:
http://ukshark101.blogspot.com/

FIVE out of TEN

jimmy2x2x

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2010, 05:51:06 am »
I have used Ultimarc and agree they are excellent!

Your Turnarcades build is shocking to me, I often see a representative on these boards (is it Craig?), and he seems very knowledgeable, helpful, doesn't hawk his product line and a nice chap all round to be honest.

I think you are being a little harsh in some areas, like unfinished internal panels.  But I also feel you are right to complain about most of the other elements.  I don't need to go into detail the pictures say it all.

Would be interested what other members think of it.

Hope it all gets resolved soon, as I'm sure it will.



Edwards80

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2010, 07:26:13 am »
He is away on a break/premises move until the 20th.

Can only comment on my cab - I got a 4 player king shell (cabinet only, no electronics at all apart from the marquee light + comes with Marquee, Bezel + Plexi) and I am very very pleased with the finish of the cab.

I'll post my build when I finish it so people can see the Turnarcades cab. Sorry to hear you aren't happy with yours though :(
Hey Dudes thanks, for rescuing me, lets go for a burger.... HA! HA! HA! HA!

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2010, 01:00:01 pm »
Based on the pictures alone, I would agree, some poor workmanship.  

In them email you received it was stated
Quote
and also why we insist customers read and accept the terms and conditions to understand that machines/cabinets will not match commercial quality

To me this is a bit deceptive because the website quotes:

Quote
Every Turnarcades machine is hand-built from the ground up by a small team of builders. Around 50-60 man-hours go into the average complete arcade machine; a combination of woodwork, joinery, electronics and programming skills that use unique techniques developed over 7 years of research and 2 years of building experience.

After reading that quote on build quality from the website it sounds to me like I would be ordering a commercial "quality" cab. I would not reasonably expect *any* fine print indicating anything to the contrary.  If you read the terms and conditions the emphasis is on durability versus a commercial machine and on transportation damage etc...the terms do not state that what you receive (given no shipping damage) will be below commercial quality on an aesthetic level.

So again, based on the pictures, ya I would be PO'd as well because the website delivers its pitch to imply that what you are getting is going to look commercial but not be authorized or durable for commercial use. To me this implies a more fragile build but one that delivers commercial aesthetics. The pictures do not back this up.

Just my 2 cents.

Now, for the devil's advocate bit...

I know that buying your cab probably meant your expectation of having to do much was either very low...or nil. I can accept that and would expect the same if I was ordering a cab like this. However, with that said, I don't think you need to do a lot on your end to get it looking how it should have.

The monitor should be replaced though, that shouldn't even be up for discussion...if it arrives with paint flecks on it, you SHOULD NOT be in a position to have to risk cleaning the screen...if you were to damage it you would likely be told sorry, warranty kaput so that to me is a no brainer. The seller should replace that. I am happy to hear that Andy took care of you on the other front though.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 01:07:45 pm by Epyx »
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BobA

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2010, 08:08:22 pm »
Doesn't sound like a review more like a ---smurfette---.   Granted some of your pics look bad but show the whole cab and how it looks.

Nice first post.   
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 08:10:11 pm by BobA »

UKShark

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2010, 06:21:05 am »
Currently stripping down the cab to start again.

Ill post some pics once the Plexiglas, bezel, the paintwork and the monitor are replaced (Monitor looks like late august....maybe).

Steve


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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 09:17:25 pm »
As a vendor rather than a hobbyist in this instance, I've refrained from commenting online until now but as I've always maintained, I am primarily an enthusiast so thought I would just add my only comment now and not shy away from this complaint.

Rather than be drawn into an argument over the timescales, events and what was said (or omitted), I feel it right to share with my fellow BYOAC members that I did agree with the customer on several points but at the same time stand by many of my comments regarding our other work and normal procedures. A fact of being a vendor (particularly in a niche field like this) is that a) not everyone will be a happy customer, and b) occasionally problems will arise that may or may not be your fault. Unfortunately it tends to be those ones that people remember so in this instance I have conceded somewhat as I do believe we were at fault in some respects and have now offered nearly 200 worth of help to the customer (which incidentally is more than the profit margin on this particular build) so hopefully this demonstrates to members who had former respect for me/us that we remain committed to our work and customers.

For those who were wondering, here is a picture of the cabinet in question to get an overall impression of the cabinet as it was at completion, which is consistent with the overall results of our other cabinets (if not the attention to finer points that were highlighted in this case):



This is the only place I will be posting this picture/comment as this is the only online community I have been an ongoing active part of, and hence where I feel I owe my input to fellow friends and previous supporters of our work. I have extended my apologies personally to this customer for his negative experience with us and hope the help we have offered will help bring the cabinet up to the standard he expected, so he gets maximum enjoyment from it as we all do with our own personal machines. Thanks to all our previous customers for their positive input on their experiences with us and supportive messages I received from BYOAC forum members.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 09:40:58 pm by Turnarcades »

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 08:33:31 am »
Nice post, Craig. I've never questioned your service. If you were local to me, I'd do business with you.

Cheers.  :cheers:

Epyx

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 11:20:19 am »
Quote
Nice post, Craig.

Always two sides to every transaction and if the cabinet you sent out looked as it did in the picture then it was certainly as advertised (minus the issues you admitted).  I think if a vendor is willing to work with you through issues as you appear to be doing then you are dealing with a vendor who cares.
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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2010, 09:10:12 pm »
It's been a while in coming but as this incident has now finally reached conclusion I now feel I need to set the record straight about this, as a few customers have asked me about this and as I've now had chance to review all my records of the incident and the online comments. Some of this conclusion is based on assumption but for any members or potential customers who come across this I'd like to now give my feelings on the subject as I believe the truth was intentionally bent from the start.

Basically, when the customer approached us it was explained that he was on a budget and as much as we try to flex you all know the material cost of a build is high and we do not buy in bulk. The basic shell he paid for was only 450; the reason it amounted to just under 900 was because of the sheer number of extras like the trackball, acrylic overlay,  lights, coin door and (currently hard to come by) 21" CRT monitor. At several stages after payment was made the customer requested late additions and already admitted they were 'over budget'. Straight away this rings alarm bells as this strategy has been used before by many attempting to get discounts and free late additions. It says on his blogs that it was a cabinet for his sister but there was no mention of this to me.

The big thing that concerns me was the comments on my apparent lack of communication; this is something I pride myself on and many previous customers can vouch for my excellent e-mail communication. Much of what was said was omitted from the online posts made and any delay was only a few days due to us breaking up for the Summer, which all customers are made aware of by our schedule. I actually experienced longer delays for replies but never complained about it. Another point to mention is that the online attacks and forum posts were all posted when he knew we would be on our break and when I was on holiday, so I would be unable to defend our work.

The big thing though is that although the customer reported problems, we did offer to help from the very start and actually gave benefit of the doubt as we had no evidence of supposed damage. It was reported that the acrylics were damaged, certain fixtures were inadequate, that controls were not working, the monitor was unusable and paintwork was seriously inadequate. As mentioned in my last post, I offered several times with replacement parts but they were either ignored or refused, every time asking for 'some money back' to set things right or 'to reflect the quality it actually is'. When I quoted the terms and conditions, it was only to re-iterate the statutory conditions all consumers should check and all customers have to check our terms before purchase. It sounds harsh, but the fact is that all custom items (not just our cabinets) are subject to different laws as by their very nature, the results are unexpected and they are not returnable as they cannot be re-sold at the same value.

It was after my first offers of replacement parts that the online attack started and the repeat message seemed to just be aimed at getting money back. He would have found that custom items are not covered under paypal policy, so when I refused to give money back he threatened a chargeback and with a delayed reply explained he'd already taken steps to do it, even after the 200 of help I offered as mentioned in my last post. I had read about chargebacks and for those that don't know, it is the one major pain all online sellers face as in some circumstances, banks can reverse payment without an item being returned so the person gets the item for free and their money back, leaving the seller seriously out of pocket and unfortunately certain people have made a hobby of abusing this system. Thankfully, I have taken several steps to protect against this type of fraud so we would not be caught out, so I explained that if he were to do this I would have to have the cabinet back (which his bank confirmed) and that as we had met our obligations to offer replacements, he would lose and the chargeback would be reversed, leaving him out of pocket and without a machine.

Finally, not wanting to put him out of pocket (although by now I could have), I offered to buy back the machine at a cost reflecting how he'd honoured 'duty of care' whilst he had it. He accepted, I sent him the full cabinet amount (which again suspiciously went to a different Paypal account they requested), and here's the funny thing: THE CABINET HAS ARRIVED BACK WITH NO FLAWS, THE ACRYLIC IS NOT SCRATCHED OR BROKEN, THE CONTROLS ALL WORK, THE MONITOR IS ABSOLUTELY FINE AND THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY PAINTWORK PATCHES MISSED OR OF ANY RE-PAINTING DONE AS WAS CLAIMED. After all this it came back pretty much exactly as it went out except for a pilot hole for a power cable at the rear, can you bloody well believe it? We've now put the finishing touches on the machine and the proof is indeed in the pudding as the videos below show:



Can you see any flaws? No, me neither.

My conclusion of this whole experience is that there was an intention at some point to try and get one of our hard-worked products for cheap or even free, and that an online attack would force a response. It is also possible it was a potential competitor attempt to rubbish our work. Either way, they have not obtained a free cabinet and have had to foot delivery costs and all this effort for nothing. We are a small operation but I've checked my rights as it's essential when you're protecting a business with little financial backup. Then again, it could just be someone whose expectations were too high (not knowing what goes into a hand-built cabinet), overspent and realised too late, or just found it was too much effort to finish off themselves, but I won't ever know for sure. My only regret is that this build filled a slot on our limited schedule that another excited customer on our waiting list could have had, and could be playing their machine right now.

Thankfully members of the community and previous customers did jump to our defence and our long-term reputation has helped us. Our expansion is continuing as a result and the fully-completed machine is now up for sale at a reduced price with no waiting time, so some lucky customer will soon be playing on a bargain Turnarcades machine!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 09:24:48 pm by Turnarcades »

BobA

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2010, 07:21:04 pm »
Thanks for the update to this matter. 

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2010, 12:25:43 pm »
Looks like someone just got nailed! --cream-filled twinkie-- move and a huge waste of time. Nice looking cab BTW!
Andy's customer service is second to none!

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 02:14:35 pm »
Ive just got back from a long tour, and wanted to reply to this.

I didn't want money off or a free machine.
Ive got photos of ALL the problems areas which means you fixed them all before you made your video.

The top lights were burnt out, and the monitor holder (Bits of wood glues to the inside) had fallen off.
You MUST of repaired all the problems before posting the video as i have 98 photos of it before it left my house.

Anyway, im not posting here again, your lies and deception far out way my 2 post visit, so let people believe what they want.
Oh and if any wants the emails or shipping info for the parts I got from Ultimarc to fix the control panel, i have those to.
I did end up out of pocket, and that obviously pleases you...yeah your a great guy ><

Oh and ive got photos of the broken acrylic too.... funny how thats fixed must if been the delivery guy?

anyway 1 year later im still mad that I got so screwed by an online vendor, you always say "it wont be me".

Still upset....

Steve

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 04:17:35 pm »
Currently stripping down the cab to start again.

Ill post some pics once the Plexiglas, bezel, the paintwork and the monitor are replaced (Monitor looks like late august....maybe).

Steve



You never did post any pics so we will believe what we will.  ;D

UKShark

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 01:51:53 pm »
I posted pics here of the unpainted parts, and the paint on the screen, http://ukshark101.blogspot.com/
By the way, the pics i posted way back on ukshark101 shows that the statement "NO EVIDENCE OF ANY PAINTWORK PATCHES MISSED " is obviously rubbish, its easy to prove the rest is too.
Why Turnarcades feel the need to bend a few things to make me look bad, ive got no idea.

Anyway, the machine was built while they were expanding and I always said it was rushed, ive seen a few machines from them on the net since mine that look amazing.
Ive no quibble that if you buy a machine from them, it will be superb, in fact I would have paid for them to take the one i bought back, fix it like they obviously did and send it back.

Im just trying to clear my name, NOT attack Turnarcades!!

Steve

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 01:54:06 pm »
Currently stripping down the cab to start again.

Ill post some pics once the Plexiglas, bezel, the paintwork and the monitor are replaced (Monitor looks like late august....maybe).

Steve



You never did post any pics so we will believe what we will.  ;D

http://ukshark101.blogspot.com/2010/08/pics-of-my-poor-build-from-turnarcades.html

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2011, 03:19:48 pm »
Ok found them  :D.  It would have been alot easier for him to just to post a few pics instead of having to search a blog.  Thanks HarumaN I don't usually backtrack in a thread to find things that are posted elsewhere.   Too many threads.

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2011, 05:53:55 pm »
Ok found them  :D.  It would have been alot easier for him to just to post a few pics instead of having to search a blog.  Thanks HarumaN I don't usually backtrack in a thread to find things that are posted elsewhere.   Too many threads.

Yeah it took me a while to find them, lol...  but I was curious.

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2011, 09:53:23 am »
I felt the need to defend as a whole blog was created just to have a go, which customers still ask about now. We have no delivery service of our own and no direct connection to any delivery agent (except for a good working relationship with the courier we regularly use and trust).  If it was in such bad shape it would never have been sent out in the first place, so things like damaged lights would not have been something we did and would only have happened after it left our premises. No need to re-iterate points already made above, but I can say for sure that the only change made was that speakers, a PC and artwork were added to complete the machine, no acrylic, paintwork or the 'broken' monitor were changed, and none of the 2000 people who played and indeed inspected the machine at Replay 2010 saw anything to suggest it wasn't up to standard, including forum member Leedsfan, pictured top centre:



I accepted certain problems like the broken light and interior finish, but if the monitor, acrylic and paintwork were in any way wrong we wouldn't have felt confident enough to showcase it as a demo machine in front of so many people. Offers were made to rectify but they were turned down, conditions of sale were known. One visitor to the show actually bought the machine in question after a full inspection in person so we're just happy it went to someone who appreciated it.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 09:56:28 am by Turnarcades »

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2011, 02:51:37 pm »
As a previous critic of unfinished Turnarcade cabinets, I was totally amazed at the R3Play when I checked out Craig's cabinets.

They looked solidly built and a mate and I played on the one pictured above and the CP was at a nice height.

I'm tempted at getting his slim mini, but its getting it shipped that is the problem, also thre will be a matter of adjustments that I think Craig would have a problem with.

I would like to see some more pictures of Craig's slim mini, but something that can show the scale as I have only have a small amount of room to place it.

Sorry to hear of the OP issues, but it doesn't represent the quality build I saw in Blackpool.
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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2011, 04:26:33 pm »
For what it's worth I read this thread ages ago, but I didn't know that the cabinet I played on was the very same one. It looked and played perfectly fine to me and I even commented on how nice the JLW sticks felt for DK. I know the guy is claiming that it's been fixed "after the event"  and I'm not gonna get involved in the argument. All I can say is that the quality of Craig's cabs on display were excellent. Even if there are problems it's how a vendor fixes things that really show how good a vendor thay are.

(Is that pic me playing DK on the second day? That's where I won the bartop kit with a really crap score of 109K.  :P)

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Re: turnarcades and ultimarc review
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 11:56:45 am »
This is 100% my last ,post, all i wanted people to know was I NEVER tried to con Turnarcades into getting a cheap/free machine.
Ive always expressed my opinion that Turnarcades machines are good, that why I wanted one.
I had to fix the control panel, which didnt take much once ultimarc sent me the bits that were broken,
Turnarcades must of fixed the monitor mounts, (one of my build criticisms was that is was glued in) as they fell out.
The lights, they were also glued in and fell out.

Im glad Turnarcades are now admitting the lights were damaged, this is a long way from the original statement of "THE CABINET HAS ARRIVED BACK WITH NO FLAWS" even if you are blaming the delivery man.
I can only presume that if I kept bringing up the facts I could final get you to admit the rest.

Anyway, im glad you fixed it it up and sold it to someone who loved it.

Steve