Anyone made a auto 4way/8way switching joystick?

[RandyT]

Keep this thread alive, I want to see this work! 

I had it working a week ago 

Just beating the crap out of it now.

RandyT

[bkenobi]

Will this work to controll those type of servos?

Electronic Toggle Switch
[E002] $6.00
 

Click to enlarge 
Electronic Toggle Switch kit can be used for switching On/Off application of home appliances like fan, light etc.


Supply input 12 VDC   
Onboard ON/OFF switch
Relay output SPDT relay
Relay specification 5 A @ 250 VAC
Relay state LED indicator
Power-On LED indicator
Screw terminal connector for easy relay output connection
Terminal pins for supply input connection
Four mounting holes of 3.2 mm each
PCB dimensions 46 mm x 58 mm
 

Where did you source this?  I'm thinking this could be a cheap way to turn on/off things from inside Windows with software (like a 15kHz monitor for instance).

[highlander4]

I have no idea where it is.  I lost the link to it.  I just know that it will not run a servo.

[bkenobi]

I think I found the place.   

http://www.indiamart.com/anykits/timer-controller-kits.html

[highlander4]

I think I found the place.   

http://www.indiamart.com/anykits/timer-controller-kits.html

Yes this is it.

[trevski]

Very interesting!

One question that might be an obvious one (I've never used a switchable stick)..

What would happen if someone (kid or drunken adult) was hanging off the stick when
the servo attempted to rotate the restrictor plate?

[mgb]

The stick and restrictor plate are two different parts so there shouldn't be any issue there.

Just a thought but I wonder if muscle wire would work (though a little more pricey). Muscle wire is used in robotics, its a length of wire that retracts (like a muscle) when a voltage is applied to it.
I've never used it and I don't know how far the travel is but I wonder if it would work.

[danny_galaga]

The stick and restrictor plate are two different parts so there shouldn't be any issue there.

Just a thought but I wonder if muscle wire would work (though a little more pricey). Muscle wire is used in robotics, its a length of wire that retracts (like a muscle) when a voltage is applied to it.
I've never used it and I don't know how far the travel is but I wonder if it would work.

Would it be cheaper than a 5 buck servo?

[rbarr110]

Speaking of cheap 5 buck servo.... any info on the servo used on the joystick in this particular thread.  I am looking for a servo just like that for a homebrewing related project, but alot of what I find are well over 5 bucks.

[ranma]

Speaking of cheap 5 buck servo.... any info on the servo used on the joystick in this particular thread.  I am looking for a servo just like that for a homebrewing related project, but alot of what I find are well over 5 bucks.

One of these:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12859

You should be able to get one of those in any RC hobby shop I guess.

[DaOld Man]

This might be a good application for the nutchip,
http://www.nutchip.com/progetti/stepper_en.htm
 however you would also need a driver for the stepper. A ULN22823A Chip might work, if the stepper is a unipolar.
Or a L297 driver chip.
Very interesting project.

Edit: what kind of driver does this use? It looks like it only has 3 wires. Most have 4 or 6 and a few have 8.

Edit again. The one on deal extreme is a servo not a stepper.

Looks to me like the best thing would be limit switches to tell the driver that the motor is at one end of it's run. Unless there is a some type of feedback position encoder then it could easily get lost. (power failure while moving).
Position feedback encoder could be complicated and expensive. My advice would be cheap micro switches.

[ranma]

Edit again. The one on deal extreme is a servo not a stepper.

yes, it's a servo, someone asked what was used on the example on this thread and that's what I've used. Driving a servo is very easy, using just a 555 and this allowed me to control both servo positions with a simple scroll lock on and off positions.

[mgb]

The stick and restrictor plate are two different parts so there shouldn't be any issue there.

Just a thought but I wonder if muscle wire would work (though a little more pricey). Muscle wire is used in robotics, its a length of wire that retracts (like a muscle) when a voltage is applied to it.
I've never used it and I don't know how far the travel is but I wonder if it would work.

Would it be cheaper than a 5 buck servo?

No it wouldn't be that cheap, but most servos are more $5

[DaOld Man]

yes, it's a servo, someone asked what was used on the example on this thread and that's what I've used. Driving a servo is very easy, using just a 555 and this allowed me to control both servo positions with a simple scroll lock on and off positions.

Got a schematic or wiring diagram?

[RandyT]

After playing with servos for a bit, I can say that I wouldn't be comfortable with the cheapest servo in the world when used in this application.  Contrary to what has been stated here, the joystick can, and does, move a restrictor out of position without something beefy holding it in place.  And a servo connected to one is very adamant about putting it where it thinks it should be.  That means that there are always opposing forces at play when in use, and whatever servo one uses needs to be up to the job of keeping the restrictor in position, and not overheat, strip gears, etc... 

It also has to be strong enough to overcome any type of random resistance that might occur, and have a "fail-safe" of some nature to protect the motor.  Nothing kills a servo faster than it wanting to move someplace where it isn't allowed to go.  This type of situation will be similar to turning on a DC motor at full speed, but constantly putting more resistance on the shaft than the motor is designed to handle.  It doesn't take long for it to overheat and die.  I've also seen them get into an "oscillation" situation where they flutter between two adjacent positions.  As they are constantly drawing a decent amount of current when this happens, it eventually causes them to overheat.

So basically, what I have found is that it can be done fairly well, but the "cheapest and easiest" route probably will not be the best approach.  The cheapest servos won't last too long and the simplest circuits have no way to protect the motors.

RandyT

[ranma]

yes, it's a servo, someone asked what was used on the example on this thread and that's what I've used. Driving a servo is very easy, using just a 555 and this allowed me to control both servo positions with a simple scroll lock on and off positions.

Got a schematic or wiring diagram?

I don't have the diagrams at hand or the page I used, but if you search, there are lots of places where you can find similar circuits using a 555 in astable configuration and a transistor on the output to invert the signal, it's the same astable circuit you find on the 555 Datasheet, just search "servo 555".

As for your comment Randy, I really think that these Sanwa joysticks I've got are really hard to turn from the joystick, there is almost no friction. I know that they turn slowly if you play a lot, but you have to play a long time. In any case, to solve the problem of the servo always trying to correct it's position and risking it to burn, I'm trying configurations where I send signals to the servo for 1 second every 5 seconds, or every 10 seconds or so... This way the servo can put the switch in the initial position and check every certain amount of time that the switch is in the correct position and correct if necessary. This assumes as I said before, that your joysticks keep their position and they are not turn easily from the joystick.

[Sir Headless VII]

How much rotational force does a player exeret vs a servo? could you hold the plate in the desired position with a magnet?

[Sir Headless VII]

ok i thought of a much more complicated but more interesting way. The idea would be to have the servo arm follow a track that would deposit the plate in place then detach the arm (thereby eliminating the stress from a moving plate). The idea is roughly outlined below (only one side of the track is illustrated but it would obviously be mirrored on the other side).



The arm would rotate around the track with the plate attached via a magnet. When it reaches the area where the plate should be there is a stopper which detaches the plate from the arm. The plate falls onto a peg which fits into a hole on the plate and holds it in place. On the way back the arm would come over the plate and pick it back up with the magnet and travel to the other position where a similar thing would happen. It is fairly complicated and would be difficult for someone at home to build but it was what i thought about in the shower and that is what i came up with.

[Derrick Renaud]

Couple of ideas.

A small solenoid to lock the rotation of the restrictor.  Solenoid pin just goes in/out of a hole in the plate.

Maybe use a motor with a worm gear to rotate the restrictor.  Then use an optical sensor to know when it is done, which then tells the previously mentioned solenoid to lock the plate.  Obviously this means a custom made restrictor plate that matches the gear on the motor.

It would be cool if the 4-way could rotate to a Q-Bert setting.  You would still have to setup the MAME buttons as the diagonals (eg. Up + Right,) but at least you would have the restriction.

D.

[BadMouth]

If anyone just wants to spend $$$ and get it over with:
http://store.firgelli.com/l12-s-linear-actuat12.html
(mini actuator, built in limit switches, $80 +S&H)

[ranma]

Couple of ideas.

A small solenoid to lock the rotation of the restrictor.  Solenoid pin just goes in/out of a hole in the plate.

Maybe use a motor with a worm gear to rotate the restrictor.  Then use an optical sensor to know when it is done, which then tells the previously mentioned solenoid to lock the plate.  Obviously this means a custom made restrictor plate that matches the gear on the motor.

Still think the servo thing is much cheaper and easier to do than this, but when I was considering things I thought about that. For this, instead of a custom plate I considered attaching a lego gear to the current plate and build everything from technic parts. (Acquiring individual technic parts is cheap and easy from bricklink)

[terrahwk]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I just completed a new cabinet and was checking to see if anyone else had done the auto 4/8way joystick.
I'm using Ultimarc Mag-stick plus joysticks, and a Pololu 6-channel servo controller. When the game is selected in the FE, a small batch file runs that will automatically tell the servos to move to the 4 or 8-way position and then run mame. Works a treat- I'm really happy with the result

[DaOld Man]

Looks good!
Does that stick restrict actual diagonal movement when in 4 way, or does it just disable diagonal switches?

[terrahwk]

Looks good!
Does that stick restrict actual diagonal movement when in 4 way, or does it just disable diagonal switches?

Yes, when in 4-way mode the stick is physically incapable of moving to the diagonals

[keefyboy]

Can you post video/build pics/parts list/batch file? (yeah, I asked for everything+kitchen sink...)

That looks really neat and might not need this servo that I looked up...

[terrahwk]

Well, I don't have a build video... but will see if I can describe it.

Servos and servo controller came from www.robotgear.com.au but any local hobby/robotics store should have this stuff.

I used these servos http://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/421
And the Pololu 6-channel micro maestro servo controller http://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/403

I fell in love with the servo controllers, they are very flexible and quite small.

This shot has the I-Pac keyboard encoder, one Pac-Drive LED controller and the servo controller. The servo controller is the really small board under the keyboard encoder.



The joysticks I used are Ultimarc Mag-Stick Plus 4/8-way switchable. The white lever on the site is part of the locking plate. There's a small lump on the joystick housing that helps keep the locking plate in the correct position - I removed it using a dremel so the servo has an easier time moving the locking plate. I could probably have left it there, the servo is surprisingly strong.

It's really just a matter of getting everything mounted and connected, and that will vary according to your control panel. Most of the stuff was just found about in the shed - the push-rods that connect the servo to the joystick for example are simply steel rod that has had a flat section ground into each end. They are connected to the joysticks with very small nuts and bolts that came off an old broken helicopter (model). The servo controller itself runs off USB power, but it needs an external 6V supply to power the servos. I'm running my servos off 5V, as that's what I had available.

The servo controller contains a small amount of flash RAM, and it comes with software and a simple programming language. With a servo, you simply tell it where you want it to "be" and it will rotate to that position and stay there. Any attempts to move it will be met with resistance, depending on how strong the servo is. The position will vary according to each build. You can use the software that comes with the servo controller to play with it until you find the right value.


You can use the software and move the slider, the servo will move in real time. Basically I wrote the following script in the above software and saved it to the servo controller. The script gets called whenever I want the servos to move.

Code: [Select]

8
sub start
8 equals if
  4105 frame
else
  7373 frame
endif
0 frame
quit

sub frame
  dup
  0 servo
  1 servo
  1000 delay
  return

I'm no coding guru, so all this does is set up some simple logic - If I call the script with the value "8" (or no value) then it will tell both servos to move to position 4105. If the script is called with any other value, the servos will move to position 7373. (The scripting language uses RPN-like notation, which is why it might look a little odd) These values were found by experimentation.

The batch file (I'm using Windows XP) looks like this and I call it "runmame.bat":

Code: [Select]

@echo off
d:
cd d:\mame

findstr /b /r "%1$" game-stick-mapping.txt > result.txt

for /f %%A in ("result.txt") do if %%~zA NEQ 0 goto four

echo 8-way
usccmd --sub 0,8
goto end

:four
echo 4-way
usccmd --sub 0,4
:end


mame "%1"
Again, I take the easy way out. I have made a hacked version of controls.xml and it simply contains the rom names of roms that are 2 or 4-way games. I did this as my XML parsing skills are non-existant, but I can write a simple batch file
Basically, the batch file searches for the ROM name in the file "game-stick-mapping.txt". The result is written to a temporary file. If the file size is 0 then obviously the ROM name wasn't found so the assumption is made that the game is 8-way. It then calls the servo controller and passes the parameter "8" (or "4", if the ROM was found) and then finally calls mame. The file I use is here (but all credit should go to the creators of controls.xml, any mistakes are likely to be from me) http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=twbzDgSf
The batch file is therefore called like you would mame:
runmame.bat 1942.zip

I use Hyperspin as the front-end. Hyperspin won't run batch files, so I came across a utility called "Bat-to-exe-converter" here http://www.f2ko.de/programs.php?lang=en&pid=b2e
You can feed it a batch file (like the one above) and it will "convert/compile" it into an exe. Hyperspin then accepts this exe instead of mame.exe. (although I don't pass any other parameters to mame.exe - I have it all set up in mame.ini. If you pass parameters through you might need to adjust the batch file)

I'm sure someone with a little coding knowledge could write up something that properly parses controls.xml and calls the servo controller directly. I thought about trying - I used to do a bit of C coding, but that was over 10 years ago... so it's a bit beyond me at the moment.

[DaOld Man]

Very cool!
I bet you could create a mala plugin to act as the bat file does.
Very interesting work.
I may try this on my next build.

[danny_galaga]

Very cool!
I bet you could create a mala plugin to act as the bat file does.
Very interesting work.
I may try this on my next build.

Yeah, nice work (",)

I've only just discovered mala and the plug ins aspect of it looks very useful indeed...

[jipp]

this is a pretty cool idea.  i just went with a dedicated 4 way stick on my cab..  but i could see this coming in handy if you do not have a lot of room.. like converting a cab to mame.. some of them cabs have small control panels..  also this would be nice in a bar top too.  will book mark this for when my skills reach the desire level needed for this.

rock on.
chris.

[danny_galaga]

this is a pretty cool idea.  i just went with a dedicated 4 way stick on my cab..  but i could see this coming in handy if you do not have a lot of room.. like converting a cab to mame.. some of them cabs have small control panels..  also this would be nice in a bar top too.  will book mark this for when my skills reach the desire level needed for this.

rock on.
chris.

Not just that, but some CP's with a stack of joys on it look, to use an American euphemism, 'like ass'...

[ntk]

i found the controller 5$ cheaper + free worldwide shipping

http://cgi.ebay.com/MICRO-MAESTRO-6-CH-USB-SERVO-CONTROLLER-ASSEMBLED-/170544529885?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b53f01dd

i have 7" screen on my CP and i connected to it a servo so i can change the angle i will upload a video soon

[ntk]

this is what i did with the servo i bought it from ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320621254330&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT



in the video i control the servo with servo tester" but i will connect it to the pc and conrol it with some script

[ErikRuud]

A couple of other choices for controlling servos from a PC.

Mini SSC II  I have not used this one, but it has been around a while and has a good reputation.

Phidgets Servo Controller  I do have two of the older version that I have played around with and they work very well.


I forgot to add that Phidgets also has Stepper controllers.

[RetroBorg]

I was inspired by terrahwk's effort, I really liked how he used two servos to make two Mag-Stick Plus joysticks switch automatically from 4-way to 8-way mode.

I currently have a mock control panel for seeing how everything fits together for when I build my arcade machine and I thought the way I had my Mag-Sticks mounted I could emulate what terrahwk has done but hopefully get away with using just one servo.

Anyway today I got the servo controller and servo working, I followed terrahwk's instructions with the software and got the servo moving as I ran different MAME games.

Next I installed the servo into my mock control panel and added a bar linking the two Mag-Stick to the servo.

I then hooked it up to the computer and ran the software and no probs the little servo switched both Mag-Sticks at the same time easily.

I will have to be more precise when I make up my real control panel as when the joysticks switch one of them is out by a millimetre or two from going all the way.

Also my mount for the servo is dodgy as, which probably doesn't help.

It doesn't really matter for the mock panel, this was just a check to see if the servo had the power to shift both at once.



Here's a video of it switching, I ran Juno First followed by Donkey Kong, just from the command line.



I haven't been able to get it working in HyperSpin as yet, I'll have to play around with it a bit more.

[jipp]

very cool

chris.

[bkenobi]

Is it just me, or does the servo flex the mounting bolts when it nears the end of motion?  If so, you will probably see a premature failure of this setup.  My guess would be the mounting holes on the servo will go, but something in there won't last IMO.

I like what you guys have come up with here!  Perhaps one of the vendors will see the value in this and create a ready-to-install solution.   

[RetroBorg]

Is it just me, or does the servo flex the mounting bolts when it nears the end of motion?  If so, you will probably see a premature failure of this setup.  My guess would be the mounting holes on the servo will go, but something in there won't last IMO.

Also my mount for the servo is dodgy as, which probably doesn't help.

Yeah it was just a quick put together, I wouldn't mount it like this if it was a real panel.

[RetroBorg]

I have it working automatically in HyperSpin now by using a batch file but I'd like to eventually write a script for HyperLaunch to do it all within HyperSpin.

[DaOld Man]

Sorry to revive this old thread, but I have an update that might interest someone who wants to automate the joystick.
I have just finished a Mala plugin that allows you to call bat files for the joystick position needed per game.

It is called JoyChoose.

JoyChoose can call just about any program that actually controls the servo motors.
It can be individual programs for each joystick position, or one program with arguments for each position.

JoyChoose can issue program requests for 8 way, 4 way, and 2 way.
Anyone thought about making a 2 way switch?

I havent uploaded it to the MalaFE website yet, just thought I would give you guys a sneak peek.
If you are interested in test driving JoyChoose, drop me a PM, I can email it to you.
Once it is available on the MalaFE site, I will announce it in the Mala Forum on here.

Anyway, here is a pic of the JoyChoose configure screen:

[RetroBorg]

Sound interesting DaOld Man, I use HyperSpin and one of the members of the forum over there wrote an AutoHotkey script to do the same thing.

Where does JoyChoose get it's information on the joystick directions for each rom?