Comparison of Vendors (GGG vs Ultimarc)

[wweumina]

I've built a couple of cabs now over the last 3 years using the great info on this site/forum with the majority of my gear coming from Groovy Game Gear and Ultimarc and I thought I'd post my impressions for anyone interested in ordering kit.  This also encompasses the experiences of 2 friends in my area that have also purchased from both vendors.

Ultimarc:
Best encoders (the IPac just feels more responsive/reliable, not sure why and entirely possible that there is no real difference)
Best joysticks (option of U360 and Mag-Stik both of which I have tried and like)
Best/Only video card option (I'm using an arcade monitor)
Best Customer serivce and shipping by far (shipping is 5-6 times faster and emails actually get answered)

Groovy Game Gear:
Best button/switch options (doing really good work providing real options in this area, though if you just want standard microswitches this may not be important)
Best spinner (turbo twist is a great product though to be fair I haven't tried the SpinTrak from Ultimarc)
Best lighting options (both lighting controller and buttons though the Nova Gems seem to have been out of stock forever and any mention of the replacements seems to have disappeard).
Best marquee lighting (if you want a 12v solution you can't go past them)

Trackballs seem to be either way and I've only ordered from Ultimarc here so I can't judge.

Overall I prefer to order from Ultimarc mostly because I haven't forgotten I placed the order by the time it arrives, but this is to Australia so shipping to other countries may vary signficantly.

[jimmy2x2x]

Not sure I agree with your selection of buttons and sticks for 'best' - what do you mean by that?

Best looking, most flexible, most responsive, shortest throw?

Personally I think Sanwa and Seimitsu take some beating, on both the button and stick front

If you want to try them out, or maybe even a korean stick and buttons I thorougly recommend http://www.etokki.com/

Very fast shipping to the UK and they will mark the value of the shipment down (if you ask) to get around any possible customs charges.

back on topic, I have only dealt with Ultimarc and they are excellent - some of the best CS and fastest shipping I have seen!

[wweumina]

Fair enough call on the joysticks.  I actually use Sanwa JLW's on my cocktail but I was looking at the options from these vendors (though the J-Stik from Ultimarc is basically either a a JLW or JLF from what I've heard).  

The U360 is very customisable and I've tried all the restrictor/spring combinations and have got it to a point I'm very happy with.  I've got a friend that swears by his Mag-Stiks though.  

I had a bit of a failed experiment with the Omni-Stik and don't expect it to see action again any time soon.

[taylormadelv]

Biggest difference for me personally has been that Andy ALWAYS responds to emails and requests, even on his vacations! I can't say that about Randy, he's blanked me a few times when I ask about product availability.
IMO the ipac is the best encoder I've used.
I really want those "novagem" lit buttons from GGG. Hope they restock soon.
Spintrack vs TT2 looks like a toss up, I think the GGG knob selection is a bit nicer. Happs still sells SlikStiks BTW and they are very nice.
Another little thing is that I get an extra international charge on my CC when I ordrer from Andy but it's worth it.

[RandyT]

As Jimmy has touched upon, any comparisons are going to be strictly subjective in nature, based on the needs of the individual, the type of build, the budget the individual is working with, what the individual is used to as far as controls go (different countries tended to have different arcade equipment), and even just plain personal preference.  What may be best for one person, may not be good, or even be an option for someone else.  A good example of this is that I just love a well made joystick which uses a natural rubber grommet as a centering device.  Therefore, I consider pretty much any spring based joystick inferior.  Keep in mind that a natural rubber grommet alone costs more than many complete joystick assemblies, and many who have only played on spring based sticks won't like the feel at all.  So which one is "best"?

As for encoder responsiveness, I would put ours up against not just Ultimarc's, but any other vendor in a heartbeat.  The KeyWiz pushes the envelope as to what is even possible on the PS/2 interface.  Unless you've done some real testing and generated some real numbers, a blanket statement like that one is unfair, even though you couched the statement by also stating that "there may be no real difference".  Of course, in reality, there is a very large group of KeyWiz users who feel differently than you do, so I guess the same could be said about them.

As for the spinners the button hole format of the TurboTwist 2 spinner is a GroovyGameGear invention that was eventually copied by Ultimarc.  If innovation is something one would like to see continued, and have those innovations offered at a reasonable cost, then it makes sense to support those who do it.

I can't say that about Randy, he's blanked me a few times when I ask about product availability.

Unfortunately answering "product availability" emails pulls me away from getting product out the door, and the above "inventing" activities.  As I am often at the mercy of others when it comes to product availability, every time I have given anyone a time frame, it has always been wrong.  You might as well be asking one of your adult children "when am I going to become a grandfather" .  So yes, if you ask me these types of questions, a lack of response is often better, for everyone involved, than is one where I unintentionally string you along for weeks upon weeks when my vendors, or internal situations, do it to me.  Better for you to make your design and build decisions based upon what is available now.  If you can wait for something, then you should probably just wait.  If not, then you really don't want to, and when delays strike (and they always do), you will just be very unhappy that you got "bad" information.  Would it really be better if I just cut and and pasted "I don't know." in response to all of those availability queries that jam my mailbox when a popular item goes out of stock?  Trust me, it's a bad situation for me when it happens, and I do everything within my means to remedy it as quickly as possible.  You should be on my end of one of these vendor interactions.  I have $10k invested in the NovaGem 2 project and I get "blanked" on occasion as well.  Very frustrating, but on an entirely different level  

RandyT

[Endaar]

I've used both vendors and have been pleased with both. Let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a niche market and we're fortunate to have fairly good access to both Randy and Andy. I think considering they are competitors they treat each other pretty well on the boards, and a thread which almost inevitably will cause conflict seems counterproductive at best.

Endaar

[kegger]

I agree with Endaar 100%

To me it's nice to have choices when taking on an arcade project and thanks to
people like Randy an Andy they provide us with quality products and support to help
us make some great things.

  to them.

[taylormadelv]

I can't say that about Randy, he's blanked me a few times when I ask about product availability.

... a lack of response is often better, for everyone involved, than is one where I unintentionally string you along for weeks upon weeks when my vendors, or internal situations, do it to me.  Better for you to make your design and build decisions based upon what is available now...RandyT

Randy, it's OK to say "no". No response means-"no order"

[RayB]

I can't say that about Randy, he's blanked me a few times when I ask about product availability.

... a lack of response is often better, for everyone involved, than is one where I unintentionally string you along for weeks upon weeks when my vendors, or internal situations, do it to me.  Better for you to make your design and build decisions based upon what is available now...RandyT

Randy, it's OK to say "no". No response means-"no order"

Have you seen his response above? Some people have a hard time being brief. 

[RandyT]

I can't say that about Randy, he's blanked me a few times when I ask about product availability.

... a lack of response is often better, for everyone involved, than is one where I unintentionally string you along for weeks upon weeks when my vendors, or internal situations, do it to me.  Better for you to make your design and build decisions based upon what is available now...RandyT

Randy, it's OK to say "no". No response means-"no order"

No parts equals no order.  When I say I don't know, that's usually not enough for most people who ask, so I end up not answering the second email.  And I'm still a dick for it, in their eyes <sigh>.  Not much difference in the two scenarios, except I wasted my time replying to the first email.

Brief enough, Ray?  

RandyT

[Epyx]

I like both of their products and I also dislike products both carry.  I have ordered many times from both and will continue to order from both.

However, when it comes to shipping speed, no one is faster than Andy.  When you place an order and have it arrive within 3 days, Internationally, that is the definition of speedy order.

[Turnarcades]

It can sometimes come down to location being a factor. I do a lot of ordering for our custom builds and I simply cannot fault ultimarc, though being in the uk this makes the best sense financially. When ordering from the us as I frequently have to do, you have to pay the higher shipping fees, suffer longer waits and the big ballache is the added vat and handling fee royal mail slap on for the time spent customs checking.

In terms of products, both companies have brought out innovative products dedicated to the home build community and both offer similar options for standard controls. As a builder I would rate the u-trak over anything else for it's fitting simplicity and neatness and although the spintrak is great, I have to give the edge to the tt2 simply for the driving control additions.

In terms of customer service, randy has been helpful but I've had much more dealings with andy who I cannot fault, offering personal help, replacements etc. As necessary and very quickly. Andy has also entertained custom product ideas to help us out as builders so that's the extra mile that wins for us.

Both are great and I'd recommend everyone show support to both of these guys in their build in some way or another.

[WhereEaglesDare]

On my MAME Conversion I bought all my stuff from Randy at GGG.  Everything took about a week, from day of order to my door step, which isn't bad at all.  Everything was packed really well, and I could tell care was taken to account for everything pack it carefully, the shipping costs and the product prices were all really good.  and I have noticed GGG has made efforts to create products that there is a demand for, but same for Andy with the AimTraks.  I havnt had any real dealings with UltiMarc and Andy.

I did have some issues with GGG and the customer service, but I have heard several good things about GGGs customer service so I don't know if I can fault RandyT if I had an unique poor experience.  I can't say that I will never buy from GGG again, but I think I will try Lizard Lick or Ultimarc before I go back.

[bodydump]

I've ordered from all 3 (GGG, Ultimarc and Lizard Lick) and was happy with all three.  All three shipped fast.  No problems with the products (except the U-Hid G in my pincab is kicking ---my bottom---).  I had no problems with communication from Randy at GGG...answered my emails promptly.  I'll use all 3 again and again.

[DirtyDachshunds]

I am actually going to put a $500-$600 order today for parts on my CP.  I was thinking of getting most through Ultimarc.  Let me know if these selections sound good with your experiences.

2xU360s (ultimarc)
2xSanwa JLW-UM-8 (jammacade)
2xaimtrak with casing (ultimarc)
red and blue translucent buttons (lizardlick)
1xiPac2 (ultimarc)
1xU-trak (ultimarc)
spinner (leaning towards spintrak, ultimarc)

[wweumina]

Are you lighting your buttons constantly?  If not, the  LED-Wiz+GP from GGG could replace the IPAC 2.  This would allow you to light your buttons according to the game and also have enough inputs to cover the 2 Sanwa's.  You could then add a couple of button harnesses to the U360's for extra inputs.

No experience with the SpinTrak, but the Turbo Twist is awesome.

[DirtyDachshunds]

Are you lighting your buttons constantly?  If not, the  LED-Wiz+GP from GGG could replace the IPAC 2.  This would allow you to light your buttons according to the game and also have enough inputs to cover the 2 Sanwa's.  You could then add a couple of button harnesses to the U360's for extra inputs.

No experience with the SpinTrak, but the Turbo Twist is awesome.

Lighting was going to be phase 2 of my project.  Right now I am only concerned with getting everything working and in order.  But once I get there, I was going to use Led Wiz to light my buttons.  The 16 inputs of the LED-Wiz+GP would not be enough for the remainder of my buttons/joysticks. 

[deepblue]

+1 for Randy/GGG

+ 1 for Andy/Ultimarc

And +1 for Chad at Lizard Lick (who should definitely be included as a bone-fide vendor for BYOAC members)

All of these guys are passionate about the hobby and offer great products and pre/post purchase service. We are very lucky to have them IMHO.

I ordered from all three of these guys for my build and would give thumbs up to all of them.

[SephYuyX]

Why not best of both worlds ?
+1 to both, and +1 to Divemaster127 @ www.arcadeemulator.net and http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=47066.0 for selling some of the more generic items cheaper, and selling GGG and Ulti products as well to save on shipping. I found DMs prices to be the least expensive.

Randy, why not sell more products through DM?

But as said, both Andy and Randy are A++ people who sell great products, and are great to work with.

[EvilNuff]

I think Endaar summed it up best...this is a niche market and both Ultimarc and GGG are *fantastic*.  I would not hesitate to order again from either of them.

Edit: I would also add in addition that as a niche market having not one but two vendors who are so responsive is simply fantastic.  Much better situation than a few other of my hobbies!

[RandyT]

Randy, why not sell more products through DM?

We don't sell any products through any other vendors.  In fact, we are in the process of bringing on more generic items in our own store, in addition to the ones we make ourselves.

RandyT

[eds1275]

I haven't ordered from any of them yet, but Ultimarc's website is my least favourite to navigate, many dead links or links for more info that take you to the wrong place, and not as much info as I need to know to make an informed decision about trackballs specifically.

[severdhed]

First of all, i have to say that I have been very pleased with both Ultimarc and GroovyGameGear....and LizardLick as well. when i was building my 2 player panel a year or so ago, i ordered stuff from both Ultimarc and GroovyGameGear, and i am very pleased with their products.  I absolutely love my u360s and Utrak, however the Utrak's USB interface didn't support mouse buttons, so i went elsewhere and bought an optiwiz, which i absolutely love.  I got my happ buttons from GGG as well, and a few novagems (awesome). 

i had a problem with one of my u360s (my fault) and my utrak (bad optic board) and Andy's customer service was above and beyond anything i have ever experienced.  i didn't have any problems with my GGG stuff, so i dont know how their customer support is.  Ultimarc takes it here on shipping though, as i placed my order on the same day, and received my ultimarc order 3 days before my GGG order.


when i was working on my DK cabinet, i ordered a JLW and some buttons from lizardlick, i was very impressed with how quickly i received my stuff.

Currently, i am starting on a 4 player cabinet and i recently placed two orders for components, one from GGG and one from lizardlick.  I bought the keywiz, and a bunch of happ buttons from GGG, and some Sanwa JLWs and black start buttons from lizardlick.    I ordered them Wednesday evening, my lizardlick order arrived Saturday via USPS, however as far as I can tell, my GGG order hasnt shipped yet.  Maybe they just didnt send me an email telling me it shipped, but either way, they take 2nd place in terms of shipping.


I'm looking forward to trying the keywiz, i am currently using my u360s for a button interface, and i have used an ipac4 in the cabinet at work.  i'm sure it will work just fine.

I don't have any complaints about ultimarc, i like their products alot, and their customer service is second to none.  I've had a few problems, but Andy always answers emails quickly and replaces anything that needs replaced very quickly.

I have no complaints about lizardlick either, they have a great selection of components and they ship quickly.

the only complaint i have about groovygamegear is that it takes longer to get your stuff than it does from other sources (even sources from other countries).  It is nothing excessive, but waiting a few days longer for parts sucks. however they have great prices on happ buttons and some cool custom parts you can't get anywhere else. 

i have also ordered from divemaster a long time ago when we built our cab at work, he has a great selection of products and great prices.  at that time i dont think he had a website, but i placed an order using the B/S/T forum.  it took longer than i would have liked to get the stuff, but it is understandable considering he does this in his spare time.  i think it was about 10 days from the time i ordered till i got my stuff, which still isnt bad.


bottom line, we are very fortunate that we have several great venders that cater to our niche market.  Both Randy and Andy have created custom products specifically for our use, and we are very fortunate that we have such a great support system for our hobby. 

[RandyT]

the only complaint i have about groovygamegear is that it takes longer to get your stuff than it does from other sources (even sources from other countries).  It is nothing excessive, but waiting a few days longer for parts sucks. however they have great prices on happ buttons and some cool custom parts you can't get anywhere else.  

Something you should keep in mind is that we actually build many of the items in our catalog. Even the interface boards.  Many companies just pull parts from one big box from an off-shore factory and put them in your little boxes with nary a second glance.  If that's all we did, we would probably ship faster.  But to us, it's more important to make sure the order is complete, well-packed and the items are in good shape and tested before being shipped.  It's great that dealers back up the sale when there is a problem, but our goal is to try our best to keep there from being one.  That's worth an extra day or two in my book.

That being said, if all one orders from us is Happ or import parts, we ship those very quickly.  But anything we need to build, or modify, gets placed in our manufacturing queue and could take 2 - 3 days, depending on the current order volume.  And just as side note....if you want a High-Low shipped the next day after you order it, then forget it.  They take me a solid hour and a half to build and sometimes that block of time is very hard for me to schedule.  That one takes us the longest to ship, but it's still not an unreasonable amount of time.  Oh, and it will work when you open the box .

RandyT

[severdhed]

that makes sense, And I'm glad you take the time to make sure your products work before you ship them, i didn't realize you did that.  THat is definitely worth an extra day or two.  Strike my complaint from the list.  It is frustrating waiting for parts when you are so excited to get them, but I agree that I'd rather wait an extra few days and know they are going to work, then to get them and have to wait for replacement parts.

[milkit]

I love GGG. LED-wiz is the shiz. I just recently used a key-wiz for the first time and I loved it as well. I have used several opti-wiz'. The novagem coin door replacements, marquee lights and omni-stiks i love.

but best of all, the ICE-T trackballs are amazing. I build lots of multicades for people and that option is always hands down the jaw dropper in combo w the led wiz.

I have never ordered from ultimarc direct because of the whole overseas thing. To me, the biggest problem with ultimarc products is the lack of having a US based seller that can actually ship something in less than a week (as well as actually looking at the packing slip and including everything)

In addition, http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/ is by far the fastest shipper of anyone in this business I have dealt with. My last order to him was on a friday night around midnight here in Dallas. He is in hawaii and I recived my package on MONDAY. from freaking hawaii... over a weekend.. regular priority mail.  This wasnt a fluke either, I have placed several orders to him and get the same quickness every single time.

GGG has not ever impressed me with shipping speed but they also havent pissed me off by taking forever like some other places have.

[Paul Olson]

I have ordered from both, and the products were good from both. I don't care for the short throw of the European sticks, but the quality was good. I would choose Andy's customer service and shipping speed over just about anyone, only exception would possibly be Bob Roberts.

I have thought about buying the 49 way encoder from GGG for years now, but I just can't justify paying full price for an obsolete part. Well, I guess it is not really obsolete since the replacement mentioned in the product description is still vaporware. I still don't understand why it would be listed there for years; I know it has kept me from ordering, and I assume others as well. Hearing that he feels it is a waste of time to respond to potential customers asking about his extremely delayed product is enough for me to delete the bookmark to his store. Oh well.

[mgb]

I have ordered from Ultimarc with no problems.
I have ordered from GGG with no problems.
Both of them offer great products. I haven't found shipping times too bad from GGG and anytime I've emailed, I've gotten a response within a day.
I just recieved a package of buttons, rgbs and led wiz' yesterday from an order I placed on either Tue. or Wed. of last week. Thats not bad at all.

If I order a pizza or chinese food, I expect it within 30 minutes, if I order arcade parts, I can wait a week.

Just to put my 2 cents in on vendors in general:
These are the vendors that I have dealt with and will continue to deal with in confidence:

Groovy Game Gear
Ultimarc
LizardLick (like someone else said, definately another great vendor that deserves recognition)
Bob Roberts (The easiest transactions)
Twisted Quarter
Pinball Resource (for pinball parts this place is great. talk about fast shipping, I ordered from them on a Tuesday at 1pm and got my parts the next day at standard mail. Their flipper rebuild kits have every thing.)
Jammaboards.com

[Havok]

I have never ordered from ultimarc direct because of the whole overseas thing. To me, the biggest problem with ultimarc products is the lack of having a US based seller that can actually ship something in less than a week (as well as actually looking at the packing slip and including everything)

Divemaster here on the boards is US based, and sells most of the Ultimarc stuff...

[CheffoJeffo]

It would be cool if people would add their reviews to the Vendor listings in the wiki ...  

[HaRuMaN]

We have a wiki?

[Ginsu Victim]

I have never ordered from ultimarc direct because of the whole overseas thing. To me, the biggest problem with ultimarc products is the lack of having a US based seller that can actually ship something in less than a week (as well as actually looking at the packing slip and including everything)

It's obvious you've never ordered from them. I'm in Oklahoma and I always get my stuff from them within TWO DAYS. They are the absolute fastest site I order from ANYWHERE. I'm not alone in this, as many have expressed how pleased they are with Ultimarc's shipping.

Divemaster127 is IN OKLAHOMA with me, yet I still order from Ultimarc just because I'm guaranteed to get my stuff faster than from anyone else. (No offense, Gary)

[CheffoJeffo]

We have a wiki?

[saint]

We have a wiki?

[Hoopz]

I have never ordered from ultimarc direct because of the whole overseas thing. To me, the biggest problem with ultimarc products is the lack of having a US based seller that can actually ship something in less than a week (as well as actually looking at the packing slip and including everything)

It's obvious you've never ordered from them. I'm in Oklahoma and I always get my stuff from them within TWO DAYS. They are the absolute fastest site I order from ANYWHERE. I'm not alone in this, as many have expressed how pleased they are with Ultimarc's shipping.

Divemaster127 is IN OKLAHOMA with me, yet I still order from Ultimarc just because I'm guaranteed to get my stuff faster than from anyone else. (No offense, Gary)

DM is fast but nobody beats Andy.  It's been a year or two since I sent my last order to Andy but it was $15 flat rate from Ultimarc.  They're both great.

To be fair to RandyT, I've ordered from him also and had my packages really quickly too.

Slikstik was fast the one time I ordered from them too!   

[Havok]

We have a wiki?

What's a wiki?

[Ginsu Victim]

What's a wiki?

A dyslexic person from New Zealand.

[Havok]

Hahaha - good one!

[Ginsu Victim]

[milkit]

I have never ordered from ultimarc direct because of the whole overseas thing. To me, the biggest problem with ultimarc products is the lack of having a US based seller that can actually ship something in less than a week (as well as actually looking at the packing slip and including everything)

It's obvious you've never ordered from them. I'm in Oklahoma and I always get my stuff from them within TWO DAYS. They are the absolute fastest site I order from ANYWHERE. I'm not alone in this, as many have expressed how pleased they are with Ultimarc's shipping.

yes its obvious because I even said I never ordered direct from them..

I have never ordered from ultimarc direct because of the whole overseas thing. To me, the biggest problem with ultimarc products is the lack of having a US based seller that can actually ship something in less than a week (as well as actually looking at the packing slip and including everything)

Divemaster here on the boards is US based, and sells most of the Ultimarc stuff...

like i said, there is no US based seller that can actually get an order shipped in under a week. Being in US and waiting 8-9 days to ship doesnt help me much