General excitement and what size monitor for a cabinet? (Offical "I'm doing it")

[ragnar]

For a long while I have wanted to do a Mame cabinet.  Thing is, I am married with children and my wife stayed at home for the children's early years.  Move on to recent days.  I think my wife will be going back to work soon.  So long as she does, I am doing a Mame cabinet.  i should know in a few weeks if she landed her dream job.

Alot of stewing has allowed me to realize that I want 2 things out of my cabinet.  Light weight and thin profiled.  I'll use weights from weight lifting at the bottom to prevent tipping.  Anyways, it will be made mostly of luan with a 1x2 support structure.  It is going to be no frills (no decals).  The only unknown is how to handle seams but I am not overly concerned about that.

Monitor question
I have to keep things reasonably priced.  I will be doing a used PC for under $100.  But one of the big expenses seems to be an LCD which I want to buy new.  I want a 20"+ monitor but I really want a 24" LCD.  And these will be widescreen LCDs.  Is 20" to small?  Should I just spring for 24"?  Should I go bigger?  I really just do not know and at the same time I don't want to make a mistake.  Any advice on monitor sizing is appreciated.

Also, if anyone knows of a build whcih is no frills and looks good please link it.  I'd love to get color scheme ideas.

[The Lumberjackass]

hi,

i have recently built a cab and documented it , http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103919.0
check it out as its a slimline design and could give you idea's on how to build your own.

personally, i have found that a 24" lcd is far too big for the cab.
its hard to look at a screen that big up close to be honest . my eyes water at times . i really should have bought a 22" as thats the
perfect size in an lcd screen.

its all personal preference though , but if i was building again from scratch , i'd try and find a 4:3 aspect lcd thats big enough , or opt
for a real arcade monitor .

the only reason my build is playable is due to the nvidia software and being able to change the screen properties to make it better.

[sstralkowski]

I recently picked up a sweet 21" CRT PC monitor off craigslist for $40.  They're not terribly common, but the interface, aspect ratio, and refresh rate should work perfectly. Thing is, I'm not sure if they are possible to fit into a "slim" design as they're bulky as crap.  

[alfonzotan]

Here's a cheap refurbed 20" 4:3 LCD you might want to consider:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=L2046NV-R&cat=MON

UPDATE:  Oops--out of stock already. 

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

Opinions: everybody's got one... 

I wouldn't use luan, even with a support frame.  I'd suggest at least 1/2" plywood, especially for the Control Panel (I'm pretty sure trying to mount controls to luan would not be fun...)  That is, unless you just happen to already have a lot of luan laying around...

Regarding monitor size: I can't tell you how much to spend, but my personal guideline is "go one size larger than you think you need."  I dare say 24" lcds are pretty affordable nowadays, even on a modest budget.  I think 24" is great.  Having considered a 24" for some time, I finally bit the bullet and stepped up to a 27" Viewsonic, and am extremely happy with the choice, despite the disproportionate cost change.  A little extra screen real estate can go a long way... then again, my old cab had a 31" crt... I really like large format. Your mileage may vary.

If nothing else, decide on and get the monitor BEFORE YOU BUILD ANYTHING.  Then you can lay out your design with ergonomics in mind.  You are going to be standing/sitting at this thing for many hours -- make it comfortable.  You won't have Lumberjackass' problem (not to critique his build choices, he's got a nice cab) which could have been solved in the design phase by recessing and/or angling the monitor within the cab. 

And just for the record, 4:3 LCDs larger than 19-20" are a bit of a holy grail around here; everybody wants one, but nobody can ever seem to find one in stock... 

[hulkster]

Opinions: everybody's got one... 

I wouldn't use luan, even with a support frame.  I'd suggest at least 1/2" plywood, especially for the Control Panel (I'm pretty sure trying to mount controls to luan would not be fun...)  That is, unless you just happen to already have a lot of luan laying around...

Regarding monitor size: I can't tell you how much to spend, but my personal guideline is "go one size larger than you think you need."  I dare say 24" lcds are pretty affordable nowadays, even on a modest budget.  I think 24" is great.  Having considered a 24" for some time, I finally bit the bullet and stepped up to a 27" Viewsonic, and am extremely happy with the choice, despite the disproportionate cost change.  A little extra screen real estate can go a long way... then again, my old cab had a 31" crt... I really like large format. Your mileage may vary.

If nothing else, decide on and get the monitor BEFORE YOU BUILD ANYTHING.  Then you can lay out your design with ergonomics in mind.  You are going to be standing/sitting at this thing for many hours -- make it comfortable.  You won't have Lumberjackass' problem (not to critique his build choices, he's got a nice cab) which could have been solved in the design phase by recessing and/or angling the monitor within the cab. 

And just for the record, 4:3 LCDs larger than 19-20" are a bit of a holy grail around here; everybody wants one, but nobody can ever seem to find one in stock... 

i'll just chime in here and say that while i'm not a display "purist" and have to have the original arcade monitors....i will say that putting an LCD screen in for your display on an arcade cab vs. a CRT monitor or TV can be a bad thing.  of course its personal preference i guess, but LCD monitors make the old school games look TOO good.  what i mean is that you now see how the pixelation really stands out on games like karate champ or donkey kong.  thats why i think so many people use TV's with svideo because the image is kinda blurry....but thats a GOOD THING. 

this is all of course IMO, but i found the following thread showing some image comparisons http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=95833.0  .  part of the charm of old school games on a tv or arcade monitor is the fact that you dont see all the lines, and makes the images a little less...um...perfect.  not sure if that makes any sense.

then again, i could be COMPLETELY wrong about this....so someone straighten me out if so.   

[EightBySix]

But one of the big expenses seems to be an LCD which I want to buy new. 

You seem to have your mind made up here, but just consider that you can pick up cheap monitors that have 'presure marks'. Normally you'll only see this on white/plain backgrounds. I picked up a monitor for £9.99 and on a black background (most of the games I want to play), you cant see them.

[drventure]

Yeah, second the 24". You can get em on CL for pretty reasonable, just put a watch out and wait.

I'm quite happy with my 24" Dell 2405. a 4X3 ratio would likely be better for a typical cab, but if you want to do full screen Virtual Pinball or Visual Pinball, a rotating 24" is a pretty nice option there.

I'd also go with ply unless you've got a pile of luan sitting around.

I think an all black cab with maybe some contrasting tmold, and some nice CP art is a really good look for a household where you don't have a dedicated gameroom. It's a bit easier to get the wife's ok if there's not a ton of arcade characters printed all over the sides and the cab's not neon orange or green.

Even better, the stained wood option can work very well (See Knievel's woody as a great example of that) and it's thin as well.

[ragnar]

Awesome comments.  I watched all the lumberjackass videos.  NICE!  It really let me see how to properly get one of these things put together.

I think I'll go with a 22-24" screen.  Seems that the 20",21" is out of the question.  I'm glad that I narrowed things down a bit.  I agree that a 4x3 aspect screen is desired but I always keep repair in mind.  If a 4x3 LCD dies 5 years from now, then what?  I've pretty much decided on doing widescreen.

OK, luan is out.  I guess I will just do MDF.  I have to figure out how to keep things lightweight.  Granted the more I think about it, the more I realize that I don't worry so much about weight as I do the bulkiness factor.  I just want something that is easy to get in and out of my house.

[The Lumberjackass]

if your building with plain mdf , you may need to laminate the sides before adding vinyl.

ive just added the vinyl to my cab , and lets just say , if it was bare mdf and not melamine faced , i'd be in a world of hell.
sure , you can still put vinyl on plain mdf , but it has to be 100% perfect and you only get 1 chance in applying it correctly. its tricky to apply.
i was really lucky i built my cab with prefinished mdf , as the melamine allowed me to take the vinyl off and re-apply it when i had trapped air bubbles.

but as for your monitor choice , buy whatever suits .
RyoriNoTetsujin is correct on one thing , i should have recessed the lcd back more to make my viewing experience better . however the angle of the lcd is in fact
perfect . its not tilted very much at all. i can change the depth of the monitor if needs be , but at this point in time , i can live with the flaw and i'll change it
at another stage , as ive alot of other projects on-hold and they need attention.

here is a preview of my finished cab , im waiting for a mini-pac replacement before i can shoot the new vid :

[ragnar]

lumberjackass,

I really need to keep costs low.  How much would a vinyl covering for both sides cost?  I figure that it is well over $100 and in that case I just don't want to do it.

My current plan is to assemble my cabinet in much the same way you did.  But I was going to fill the drill holes and sand smooth, then paint the sides.  I might later add some small vinyl pieces of artwork.  Or maybe buy stickers.  There must be some retro sticker web site that has a 12"x12" pacman :-)?  It won't be as nice but it is better than having a huge piece of painted MDF sitting in the corner.  Or I could do some 8-bit pixel like camoflage.  That just takes paint and patience.

If I do some vinyl right off the bat, I might do so with the control panel.

[The Lumberjackass]

im living in ireland so any prices i quote are only a guide really.
i paid in total , for all my vinyl , 180 euro . the vast cost of that was the side art , and i think they were 78 euro each .
BUT , thats because i used the best vinyl they had and i got it laminated with a clear vinyl on top. i think he said both
vinyls i used were 6 euro per sq foot . so if i didnt use laminate , i'd half the 78 euro cost of each side art.
( and just as a fyi , you dont need to laminate the vinyl, but i did it to protect it from my nephews and niece )

so pay a visit to any sign company , they will give you samples and tell you how much each of them are per sq foot.
personally, dont go with a thin vinyl or a vinyl that stretches easily under strain . the stuff needs to be as thick as possible to hide
any filler holes , and must not lose its shape if you need to peel it back off the cabinet to reapply it. as i say , get samples , they are free
and you can test them on the wood your using. if its bare mdf , it'll be a tough job , but use the samples to test adhesion and pull it off a few times
to see how many fibres are taken away from the surface. this will tell you if you can use vinyl at all on plain mdf.

but as i say , get samples , they are free . any company asks for money for a sample , walk away . try a few companies too. as alot
of vinyls are made by different manufacturers and some are better than others . and can be even cheaper too


and although i did say in vid 1 that you dont need to paint a cab , its personal preference if you wish to do so. but its just a pain having to paint
a cabinet so thats why i chose pre-finished mdf instead.

[Epyx]

personally, i have found that a 24" lcd is far too big for the cab.

Agreed that this is a personal preference. I have a 27" arcade monitor in my cab at about the same distance and to me and those who have played on it, it is perfect.  Only you can determine the best size.

of course its personal preference i guess, but LCD monitors make the old school games look TOO good.  what i mean is that you now see how the pixelation really stands out on games like karate champ or donkey kong

Again, personal as well. My order of preference would be:

1) Arcade Monitor
2) SCART capable TV or Broadcasting type presentation CRT Monitor capable of 15khz
3) CRT Monitor
4) LCD Monitor
5) Component TV
6) S Video TV
7) Composite TV

To me the Direct 3D progressive mojo on an LCD is a lot easier on the eyes than an Interlaced S-Video/Composite or Component signal..but that is just me.

[alfonzotan]

lumberjackass,

I really need to keep costs low.  How much would a vinyl covering for both sides cost?  I figure that it is well over $100 and in that case I just don't want to do it.

If you have access to a Grainger store (they only sell to businesses, but if you work for a company with an account there, you can buy stuff for yourself out of your own pocket) or know somebody who does, you can order 1/16" HDPE sheets for very cheap.  I bought one of these to cover my control panel, $15:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Sheet-Stock-1ZAZ8

[november]

I don't have time to read through this whole thread yet but I have an old SF2 cab that I converted into a MAME cab.

The inner width of this cab is 25.5.  I found the perfect 27'' monitor for $250 on Newegg.  It fits with a bit +- 1mm gap on each side.  I was so stoked when I slid it in and it fit so well.

Here are pics of it.  Also, please save your "go with a classic crt blah blah authentic blah blah".  This is what I wanted and its what I will keep.

lumberjackass,

I really need to keep costs low.  How much would a vinyl covering for both sides cost?  I figure that it is well over $100 and in that case I just don't want to do it.

If you have access to a Grainger store (they only sell to businesses, but if you work for a company with an account there, you can buy stuff for yourself out of your own pocket) or know somebody who does, you can order 1/16" HDPE sheets for very cheap.  I bought one of these to cover my control panel, $15:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Sheet-Stock-1ZAZ8

I actually work for Grainger and I'm so glad you mentioned us .

[alfonzotan]

If you have access to a Grainger store (they only sell to businesses, but if you work for a company with an account there, you can buy stuff for yourself out of your own pocket) or know somebody who does, you can order 1/16" HDPE sheets for very cheap.  I bought one of these to cover my control panel, $15:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Sheet-Stock-1ZAZ8

I actually work for Grainger and I'm so glad you mentioned us .

[/quote]

Heh... watch it, you might get flooded with PM's asking you to hook up BYOAC-ers with cheap parts!

[ragnar]

For vinyl I am thinking about using these:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/retro-gaming/a6d0/

Either Donkey Kong, or Mario themed.  I think I have to go DK.  But this keeps the stickers small.  For what I want to do, this should suffice.

Also, I got a free computer.  What a big PITA.  I have to get XP on it.  And on top of that, I am having driver issues and the XP key (key on side of Gateway PC) is not working.  Yes, I have an OEM disk so I don't know what is going wrong.

UPDATE: AWESOME!  Took 5 hours (now 5 am) but I got everything up and running on the free PC.  It's a 2.4 GHz P4 with 256 meg.  I figure that I need an upgrade to 512 meg+.  I already upgraded the hard drive from 20 gig to a 120 gig hard drive.  I had the 120 laying around so free upgrade!  The best part?  The on board video was low end.  Luckily I remembered my old gaming rig in the basement that started life in 1998.  It eventually went from a voodoo 1 to a voodoo 3.  So, I found myself a voodoo 3 card!  Should be good enough for a N64 emulator!  Now off to play with front ends even though I should go to bed as it is 2:10 am.

[The Lumberjackass]

if you think it'd work out by all means go for it.
for the price , and the art itself , its not bad at all. only thing i would say is that they are only 40" high.
thats 8 inches short of 4 foot. so make sure the dimensions are ok before you order

( and i know all about staying awake while i should be asleep !! lol , this hobby aint for the weak )

[ragnar]

I might as well make this my official discussion thread.

I already asked in the Mala forum by piggybacking on another post from a long time ago but I'll ask again here.

I have the latest Mala andlatest Mame.  I am testing trying to confiugre things with Pacman, Frogger and Rampage.  I have screens from each.  My problem is more basic though.  When I run Mame, it is telling me that it could not initialize Direct3D for some reason.  I already figured out that the latest Mala can only configure older versions of Mame.  So, I have to configure Mame.ini on my own.  Is there an application that can help me out or a tutorial/manual regarding mame.ini?  I have tried to get Mame running without Mala and it gives me the same error.

I have Direct3D-enabled within Windows and tested that it works.  DXDIAG confirms this.

Thread I piggybacked on with the same exact question:  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82896.0