Opinions on costs.

[drventure]

There are a few games that require all 6, And I was only going to do this once, Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.  Besides that it evens out the Control panel nicely.

My sentiments exactly. I'm at almost 3 years and counting with my build. Not really planning to do it twice, so better to have it and not need it, blah blah.

Yeah, Frankenpanels are what they are. Mine's got a flight stick as well 

I don't have all the lighting, but, given OND's lit ring button design, it's not quite out of the question 

Then again, I did cram a totally useless plasma ball and a brass inlay into my CP, so I'm probably not one to take any CP building advice from!

[Beretta]

There are a few games that require all 6, And I was only going to do this once, Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.  Besides that it evens out the Control panel nicely.

My sentiments exactly. I'm at almost 3 years and counting with my build. Not really planning to do it twice, so better to have it and not need it, blah blah.

Yeah, Frankenpanels are what they are. Mine's got a flight stick as well 

I don't have all the lighting, but, given OND's lit ring button design, it's not quite out of the question 

Then again, I did cram a totally useless plasma ball and a brass inlay into my CP, so I'm probably not one to take any CP building advice from!

pix? brass inlay sounds swear i could just imagine doing a pacman, or a MK dragon.. that would be awesome.

btw there is also 1 or 2, 5 button 3 player games.. "Guardians of the 'Hood" it's like pitfighter but side scroll beat'em up style.

4player 6 button (if correct at MAW's) lists 14 games
and 4player 5 button another 2 games.

so approx 20 games can be played on that 6 button 4 player panel that would'nt otherwise on a 4x4.

[DashRendar]

There are a few games that require all 6, And I was only going to do this once, Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.  Besides that it evens out the Control panel nicely.

My sentiments exactly. I'm at almost 3 years and counting with my build. Not really planning to do it twice, so better to have it and not need it, blah blah.

Yeah, Frankenpanels are what they are. Mine's got a flight stick as well  

I don't have all the lighting, but, given OND's lit ring button design, it's not quite out of the question  

Then again, I did cram a totally useless plasma ball and a brass inlay into my CP, so I'm probably not one to take any CP building advice from!

pix? brass inlay sounds swear i could just imagine doing a pacman, or a MK dragon.. that would be awesome.

btw there is also 1 or 2, 5 button 3 player games.. "Guardians of the 'Hood" it's like pitfighter but side scroll beat'em up style.

4player 6 button (if correct at MAW's) lists 14 games
and 4player 5 button another 2 games.

so approx 20 games can be played on that 6 button 4 player panel that would'nt otherwise on a 4x4.

What about consoles?  That's usually where 6 or more buttons are needed.   

[opt2not]

btw there is also 1 or 2, 5 button 3 player games.. "Guardians of the 'Hood" it's like pitfighter but side scroll beat'em up style.

Sweet! I'm going to check that out...wonder if it's any good.

4player 6 button (if correct at MAW's) lists 14 games
and 4player 5 button another 2 games.

If you actually look at those games you'll notice none of them are 4 players simultaneously, except Guilty Gear Isuka. They're all stated as 2P sim.
Believe me, I've gone through this research before when building my El Diablo Mechanico machine.

so approx 20 games can be played on that 6 button 4 player panel that would'nt otherwise on a 4x4.

bzzzzt. incorrect.

[WhereEaglesDare]

so approx 20 games can be played on that 6 button 4 player panel that would'nt otherwise on a 4x4.

bzzzzt. incorrect.

SURVEY SAID....    BAHHHHHH

[Epyx]

I am glad I could amuse you. I just wish some people here would realize that not everyone has the time, space or tools to complete all aspects of the build. I figured I would post here as product specific forums usually have a vendor or a private builder or two that offer services. I was right as I have received offers. Also this site has been a plethora of knowledge and I wanted to tap into a great resource.

Everyone else, thank you for the assistance and opinions.

I guess what bothers me are the statements:  "I don't have time", "I don't have the skills" and "I don't have the space" .  

Are you going to have time to play a purchased unit? If yes, then you most definitely have the time to build one.  Many builders here built in apartments and on balconies. As for the skills...most here were complete neophytes and many of us had little or no tool experience prior to visiting these forums.

Not trying to dissuade you from buying. I think thats a great alternative...but just be honest and say you have no desire to build because you don't like building and don't want to like it, you just want to play

You would avoid a lot of the suggestions to build that way...

[CheffoJeffo]

What about consoles?  That's usually where 6 or more buttons are needed.   

+1 ... people get tunnelvision with MAME sometimes

I guess what bothers me are the statements:  "I don't have time", "I don't have the skills" and "I don't have the space" . 

Are you going to have time to play a purchased unit? If yes, then you most definitely have the time to build one.  Many builders here built in apartments and on balconies. As for the skills...most here were complete neophytes and many of us had little or no tool experience prior to visiting these forums.

Nicely said.

[syph007]

What about consoles?  That's usually where 6 or more buttons are needed.   

+1 ... people get tunnelvision with MAME sometimes

I always thought it was blasphemy to put console games on an arcade cabinet.  Am I in the minority on that?

[DashRendar]

I always thought it was blasphemy to put console games on an arcade cabinet.  Am I in the minority on that?

Not sure, but considering that many Dreamcast and N64 games also exist nearly exactly as arcade games, makes it a good option.

I have console-emulated Gauntlet Legends and NFL Blitz in my cab, because the MAME alternatives are virtually unplayable.   

[syph007]

I always thought it was blasphemy to put console games on an arcade cabinet.  Am I in the minority on that?

Not sure, but considering that many Dreamcast and N64 games also exist nearly exactly as arcade games, makes it a good option.

I have console-emulated Gauntlet Legends and NFL Blitz in my cab, because the MAME alternatives are virtually unplayable.   

Oh that's true, hadn't thought of that.  I was picturing trying to play mario with arcade controls, and it just seemed weird. NES and SNES emulators are available for so many other devices that work better than arcade controls would.

[RandyT]

I was picturing trying to play mario with arcade controls, and it just seemed weird. NES and SNES emulators are available for so many other devices that work better than arcade controls would.

I totally disagree with this statement.  If a game is an arcade-style game, then playing it with arcade-style controls is anything but "weird".  And games like "mario" are certainly arcade-style games.

Anyone who shies away from playing some of these console titles on real arcade controls is, IMHO, depriving themselves of a new and possibly better way of experiencing a lot of the older games that used poorer controls as a matter of practicality.  IOW, if you have the good stuff, it makes perfect sense to use it.

RandyT

[syph007]

I was picturing trying to play mario with arcade controls, and it just seemed weird. NES and SNES emulators are available for so many other devices that work better than arcade controls would.

I totally disagree with this statement.  If a game is an arcade-style game, then playing it with arcade-style controls is anything but "weird".  And games like "mario" are certainly arcade-style games.

Anyone who shies away from playing some of these console titles on real arcade controls is, IMHO, depriving themselves of a new and possibly better way of experiencing a lot of the older games that used poorer controls as a matter of practicality.  IOW, if you have the good stuff, it makes perfect sense to use it.

RandyT

So you must prefer arcade controls to gamepads then?  I couldnt play the NES classics with anything but a gamepad, wouldn't feel the same as I remembered, which is why it seems weird.  I know there was an arcade type stick for the NES but I never got used to it.

[Turnarcades]

Wouldn't run my arcade cab without consoles personally. There are loads of games that play better with arcade controls even on 16-bit consoles, as this generation was borne out of arcade conversions. For example, I rate the Megadrive versions of Golden Axe and Alien Storm over the arcade versions, plus the former had sequels only on console so of course they play well too. I can think of hundreds of fine examples, and particularly with PS1, many 3D fighters that demand high-spec from MAME were ported to PS1 in a much better form and are less demanding in terms of emulation - Use pSX and think along the lines of the Tekken series, Rival Schools, SF EX and Soul Edge, which all pissed on the arcade versions as they had more characters and gameplay options.

[Beretta]

I always thought it was blasphemy to put console games on an arcade cabinet.  Am I in the minority on that?

i dont know but ya i'd run consoles on a arcade cabinet they're still games.

some games really need a game pad though..

but some games are very nice on consoles and would be well suited for joystick play.

super double dragon on SNES comes to mind as a superb beat'em up (which is my favorite type of game next to fighters)
it's better then the original arcade double dragons..

another is river city ransom on NES, probably my all time favorite beat'em of any platform arcade included.
the game is rather short but i spent countless hours with my dad playing it.

for fighters there is mortal kombat trilogy.. only on consoles and PC.. any MK fan will love MKT the last greatest 2d MK, pretty much every character you can think of is in it up to that point int he series and it even comes with a few extra classic versions of a couple.

so ya mame is the focus but do not discount the bazillian of console games out there.

i my self am still toying with the idea of a 8 button panel rather then a 6, you'ed need 10 to cover psx
it's hard to decide whats most important everything is a trade off unless you go with the mother of all franken pannels.

[opt2not]

i dont know but ya i'd run consoles on a arcade cabinet they're still games.

some games really need a game pad though..

but some games are very nice on consoles and would be well suited for joystick play.

True dat.
I've been playing my favourite NES side-scroller-shump, Lifeforce with a joystick...makes a hellava difference than using the old NES controller.
But then, NES is really well emulated.

Console support is totally worth it if you can manage it, and there are a lot of games that are great with an arcade joystick. One that instantly comes to mind (a game that I constantly play on my cabinet)...Pacman:CE!!  So awesome with a proper 4-way joystick.
Playing that on a 360 controller hurts my soul.

[Epyx]

My first exposure to the NES was via the playchoice arcade cabs so for me the genuine controls are arcade controls.  Many of you may be too young to remember the Playchoice cabs.

[Benevolance]

And thanks for making the rest of us old because we remember them. 

The NES games are the most popular choices when I have guests. Everyone played Nintendo and has fond memories, plus there were lots of fantastic 2 player games. The original Mario Bros (not super mario) is one of the most competitive co-operative games I've played. Trying to avoid being 'accidentally' killed by your partner while advancing a high score makes for good gaming and lots of cussing.

P.S. Rivercity Ransom was a fan-frickin'-tastic game. Still one of my favorites to this day.

[opt2not]

My first exposure to the NES was via the playchoice arcade cabs so for me the genuine controls are arcade controls.  Many of you may be too young to remember the Playchoice cabs.

Wait what forum is this...oh, Main. Yeah, many of the readers here are probably too young to remember Playchoice.

I remember playing Nintendo Baseball on a playchoice cabinet at a Chuck E Cheese's in Toronto! I remember you'd keep feeding the machine for more playtime...gawd I feel old now.

P.S. Rivercity Ransom was a fan-frickin'-tastic game. Still one of my favorites to this day.

+1
So ahead of its time...

[flashiv]

I installed a USB hub flush to the left side of my CP.  It matches the color of my cab, so no Frankenpanel.  Just plug in my Gravis game pads when I play console games.  Also good for when I want a flight yoke/stick/steering wheel for MAME and PC games.

[Beretta]

only seen players choice once, had goonies at a laundromat.

[The Habbler]

When I was a kid there was a Playchoice-10 that was stacked in Lake Geneva, WI. It had the gun for hogans alley and all 10 slots had games on it.

[Epyx]

Lol the only reason I say too young is that there are a few people posting to this thread that just don't get arcade controls for NES games...I can only assume that the 54 Playchoice Games were not experienced by them because perhaps they were 5 or 6 when they were exposed to the NES at home...whereas I was 14 or 15 when it came out (38 now!).

[Edwards80]

I installed a USB hub flush to the left side of my CP.  It matches the color of my cab, so no Frankenpanel.  Just plug in my Gravis game pads when I play console games.  Also good for when I want a flight yoke/stick/steering wheel for MAME and PC games.

Great idea, I'm going to be doing this with wireless xbox controllers. There are lots of console games that suit arcade controls but occasionally a pad makes more sense. I don't really want a separate PC for emulation by the TV for console gaming, so keeping them all in the cab is a bonus...I have my favourite console games on the real consoles by the tv anyway.

Just to weigh in on the build yourself or buy topic. I've ordered a 4 player cab shell from Turnarcades. I'm sure I could buy the right tools, learn the right skills and make room for the build at home and I am planning on building something myself in the future on a smaller scale, but for my main cab I decided paying someone who knows what they are doing would be the best option!

The main reason I decided to buy the cab shell rather than build was because I don't think I would enjoy the process! I'm sure it would be satisfying once it was done but I'd rather start with a smaller project. I'll definitely enjoy wiring all the controls etc though

[manman]

Lol the only reason I say too young is that there are a few people posting to this thread that just don't get arcade controls for NES games...I can only assume that the 54 Playchoice Games were not experienced by them because perhaps they were 5 or 6 when they were exposed to the NES at home...whereas I was 14 or 15 when it came out (38 now!).

I don't really get the logic here... you mean they weren't old enough to go to arcades?  Let's be honest here, by the time a lot of these games were put on playchoice machines they were vastly more popular on the home NES console... the percentage of people playing a lot of these on an arcade machine vs at home is probably tiny (not saying all, just many).  Plus- 54 games is such a tiny percentage of the overall library for nes, haha.  After the NES came out, I don't think arcades really hit that second golden age until the SFII boom.  I played my share of some of those games in the arcades (actually more like pizza joints cuz I rarely saw them in arcades..), but I gotta say, I really land on the side of arcade controls for console emus not feeling natrual- at least in the general sense.  I guess it's really a personal choice though, I go with whatever the strongest experience was for me.  That means console controls for most console games, and arcade stick for arcade pcb/mame/or console games that are almost identical to something from the arcades like a lot of fighting games.

[92greenyj]

Many NES games were actually in Arcades in cabinets back in the day. Some even started in the arcade before making their way to the NES console (Donkey Kong anybody? Rampage? etc) I fully intend to have consoles on my cabinet when it is complete and for several reasons. First is that I no longer have my classic consoles, or at least most of the games for them anymore. Secondly, as someone mentioned before, some games don't work in MAME well yet, but the console ports work just fine on the console emulators. Thirdly, I want to really make this thing be a trip down memory lane and re-live the glory days of video games. Before they turned into the same recycled First person shooters with a different name and lead character. This is one of the reasons I refuse to buy a 360. I hate FPS games. they are all the same recycled garbage over and over again. I want to go back and play games when they were GOOD!

[CheffoJeffo]

Many NES games were actually in Arcades in cabinets back in the day. Some even started in the arcade before making their way to the NES console (Donkey Kong anybody? Rampage? etc)

Somebody is confusing arcade games that were ported to the NES with NES games ... 

[92greenyj]

Many NES games were actually in Arcades in cabinets back in the day. Some even started in the arcade before making their way to the NES console (Donkey Kong anybody? Rampage? etc)

Somebody is confusing arcade games that were ported to the NES with NES games ... 

how am i confusing it? I said clearly that many "NES classics" were arcade games first. then were ported to the NES. DK was an arcade game first. and if im not mistaken so was the original Mario Brothers and Rampage. I know there are others but those are 3 of my favorites that stick out at the moment

[CheffoJeffo]

Sorry ... it's just that, for the old folks, it is strange to hear somebody call Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage NES games since they were arcade games which were ported (e.g. NOT the same game, but a facsimile) to various consoles.

Anybody who cites Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage as a reason to include consoles in their arcade cabinet is always going to bewilder me.

[opt2not]

Sorry ... it's just that, for the old folks, it is strange to hear somebody call Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage NES games since they were arcade games which were ported (e.g. NOT the same game, but a facsimile) to various consoles.

Anybody who cites Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage as a reason to include consoles in their arcade cabinet is always going to bewilder me.

Agreed.
People need to know the difference between a port and an actual release.

Though some arcade games did get an NES overhaul...like for instance Gyruss. The arcade version and NES version is not the same game. The NES version was more of a remake than a port -- with additional gameplay elements like boss fights, multiple powerups, and new artwork.

[manman]

Sorry ... it's just that, for the old folks, it is strange to hear somebody call Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage NES games since they were arcade games which were ported (e.g. NOT the same game, but a facsimile) to various consoles.

Anybody who cites Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage as a reason to include consoles in their arcade cabinet is always going to bewilder me.

exactly.  Playchoice itself (if I remember correctly) was like an arcade system for playing nes titles, which is different than some games like those mentioned above which were actual arcade releases ported to NES later (although there is some overlap in titles between the two)

To me, none of those reasons listed are actual reasons to put console emulators in a cab, they are reasons to either get the original games, mame releases of them, or console emu releases of them.  If you are nostalgic for how you originally experienced them, then getting the originals or getting them for mame and putting them in a cab makes sense...as does arcade controls for a mame cab... not sure how that's a reason for console emus being in a cab/hooked up to arcade controls.

I guess if console emu is somehow your only option to relive your arcade experiences for those games it makes some sense, but just in general it seems strange to me to hook up console emus in an arcade cab...like...paying metroid or megaman or something on arcade controls just wouldn't feel right to me.  You can't argue with preference- if that's someone's preference, more power to you.  But trying to reason it out as far as what titles appeared where or whatever doesn't make sense to me.  In the 99% case- if you remember playing it in the arcade, it's an arcade game (regardless of what it was later ported to), and you can find it in mame/original pcb.

[Edwards80]

I'll be putting console emulators in my cab, purely because some games suit an arcade stick & buttons. After all a lot of console/computer games were influenced by arcade games and weren't ports. Quite a few scrolling shoot-em-ups on the Amiga spring to mind.

Obviously if its a choice between playing the Arcade release of something or playing a console port, the original is the only choice.

Some console games would just feel odd without a control pad though!

[scept1c]

I preferred to build the CP myself, it's cheaper and no one can know what you want better than yo do.

[XtraSmiley]

Nice looking cab guy.  One thing I will add is that there are a few home emulated games that use 6 buttons on player 3-4 (hmm, at least I think there were...) so at least you can play those games with Hyperspin.

As for the OP, I have both home built systems and purchased ones (Slikstik) and they both have their advantages and disadvantages.  I say go the purchase route if you don't want to do the work.  THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS, contrary to what many on these forums make you feel.

BYOACers, remember, part of the BYO also applies to software, so there is nothing wrong with coming here and asking for help/price comparisons on the hardware side before going on to the software side.

Remember, we're a friendly community, here to help, right?

EDIT:  Wow, that took awhile to appear, glitch!  Anway, yes it has been stated about the home systems and extra buttons, but anyway, good luck with your decision!

[Epyx]

I don't really get the logic here... you mean they weren't old enough to go to arcades?  Let's be honest here, by the time a lot of these games were put on playchoice machines they were vastly more popular on the home NES console... the percentage of people playing a lot of these on an arcade machine vs at home is probably tiny (not saying all, just many).  Plus- 54 games is such a tiny percentage of the overall library for nes, haha.  After the NES came out, I don't think arcades really hit that second golden age until the SFII boom.  I played my share of some of those games in the arcades (actually more like pizza joints cuz I rarely saw them in arcades..), but I gotta say, I really land on the side of arcade controls for console emus not feeling natrual- at least in the general sense.  I guess it's really a personal choice though, I go with whatever the strongest experience was for me.  That means console controls for most console games, and arcade stick for arcade pcb/mame/or console games that are almost identical to something from the arcades like a lot of fighting games.

My logic was that I WAS OLD ENOUGH to go to the arcades...thus my exposure to many NES games was on a Playchoice 10 as opposed to an NES because it was at the arcade that I played these games...the only gaming I did at home was on my C64.  I was also being a little facetious in my condemnation of them being too young...almost a "while I was doing this you were still in diapers..." all in good fun.

To me console games just play better on arcade controls, probably because the first few waves of home games were either ports or arcade like in their delivery so that people could feel like they had a piece of the arcade on their console. As a result a lot of games just play better with arcade controls...you cited Metroid in a later post as not being the type to play with arcade controls. I happen to think Metroid plays fantastic on an arcade controller and same with other games like Turrican etc...about the only genre I don't play a lot of  on the arcade cab are RPGs and only because they require longer stretches of time but that doesn't mean the controller doesn't feel better

[WhereEaglesDare]

Plus there are plenty of games that were ported to the console that run better on emulaor, PSX version of UMK runs better, at least my pc runs the PSX version better.

[manman]

well, my comment about not getting the logic was partly because I don't see that age as precluding you from going to the arcade, but mostly because playchoice is such a small percentage of overal games for the nes, and the overall argument doesn't just cover nes, it's consoels in general.

You are right though, and that's mainly why I said my opinion was meant to cover the "general" case.  I still think that the arcade port argument just begs the question- then why not get the original arcade version and isn't really an argument for having console emulators on a cab, but if some people think the console ports are better that's their own opinion I can't really argue that.  I personally used to put in some pretty long stretches on metroid, even though it WOULD work, I'm not sure I'd want to play that on an arcade stick, haha.  But yeah, nostalgia wise, i'll always like a pad over a stick for consoles except for those cases you guys brought up.

[Epyx]

well, my comment about not getting the logic was partly because I don't see that age as precluding you from going to the arcade, but mostly because playchoice is such a small percentage of overal games for the nes, and the overall argument doesn't just cover nes, it's consoels in general

Where I lived, you had to be 14 or older to go into an arcade...that was the city bylaw.  You may have experienced a different bylaw where you lived.  The only exceptions were stores that had 4 or less games as they didn't fall into the bylaw category of "arcade".  However, I was mostly being facetious as indicated.

As for the pad vs controller well we can agree to disagree...that one is purely preference.  You can not get it all you want but it doesn't change the fact that I prefer arcade controllers to gamepads for gaming in general.  Even my Commodore 64 games like Winter Games etc feel better for me with an arcade controller than they do with the original Wico I owned, but again that is me

[syph007]

Ah I think I see where people are coming from.  I'm late 30's , child of the 80's BUT I grew up in rural ontario, no arcades nothing like that.  I never got to play arcade games as a kid EVER.  So my games were all 2600, NES etc... thats why I prefer gamepads etc for console games.. it's what I grew up with.  I wanted to build an arcade machine to get to actually make up for what I missed out on as a kid.  So for me it has to be arcade controls on that, with arcade games... Im getting to play things like arkanoid, DK etc for the first time ever!  So in my case, thats why it seems to weird to put my console games on there, where I wouldnt enjoy playing them.  I suck with arcade controls... in fact when i was bulding my machine, I had a usb NES pad plugged in to test, and I got better scores with that, than arcade controls...

[manman]

Hey, I hear you- preference is preference I'm not trying to argue that at all.  I was just giving my reasoning for why I understand why some people "don't get" putting arcade emulators in arcade cabs.  That was the first thing I thought when I first saw the elaborate hyperspin setups with snes, genesis, etc.  I can think of more than a handful of games on those systems I might like to play with an arcade stick- but for the most part reliving my console days just feels like I need a pad.  That said, I actually DID play my fair share of rpgs or games where you need to sit for long stretches in those days, haha.

I never knew there were age limits for getting into the arcades in some places, we never had that where I live.  Commodore 64, haha...hmm, I could get into some moon patrol on the arcade sticks!

[Endaar]

Hmmn, could have sworn I posted this already. Sorry if it's a duplicate.

To touch on the original topic...

I built my cab with a UAII kit and a custom drilled 2P panel from NCC. Overall I think the kits are reasonable for the price. Nearly $1800 for a 4P lit CP is crazy however unless you absolutely positively do not want to do any CP work yourself.

Wiring a lit CP is very time consuming, but it is not difficult; overall for me it was one of the easiest parts of the project. Getting the lighting to work the way you want it was much more of a challenge.

I'll give you my (rough from memory) costs as a comparison.

CP Kit: $120
Buttons: GGG clear NovaGems w/ RGB LED modules - $7 each x 20 = $140.
Joysticks: Happ Comps x 2 = $20, U360 + accessories = $90, Happ 4-way top-fire = $25
Trackball: U-Trak $120
Spinner: TT2 - $80
LED-Wiz x3: $135
Powered USB Hub: $35
IPAC4: $50
Wiring: $30
Misc Stuff: $40

That's a total of $885 if my mental math is right. My joysticks are not lit and you're looking at a 4P panel, so you have to adjust for that, but that's still around $800 for labor. I think you can wire a panel like this in 20 hours or less, so you've got to decide if you can come up with enough time to save yourself a lot of money. Even with a prebuilt CP and a cabinet kit, this will still be a time consuming project, and 20 hours shouldn't make a huge difference either way.

Endaar