Opinions on costs.

[Rabidfool]

First post here. I have been reading for quite some time now and really appreciate and enjoy the forums here. Lots of great knowledge.

Looking to build a MAME cab. I do not have the time, or skill set, to build one from scratch. I have seen a lot of great reviews of Mameroom / NorthCoast Customs and they seem to have a great product. I have enough computers and monitors already, so I inquired about a cabinet and control panel only. The following was my response.

UAII cabinet kit (shipped unassembled) = 495
Quad controller = 770
Signature series illumination upgrade = 1,019
Shipping and handling = 114.29
 

The cabinet price seems very good, however, the $770 for a control panel and $1789 for one with led's seems painfully high. Are these prices worth it and what are my alternatives?

Thank you in advance!

[bkenobi]

Build one yourself.  That's the best option if you want to save some cash.  If you are unwilling/unable to do any woodworking yourself, then you are at the mercy of someone that will do it for you.

FWIW, lights look cool on other people's cabs, but you have to realize how expensive that option is ESPECIALLY since it adds zero functionality to your cabinet.  You are paying those guys $1000 extra to make everything light up so you can say "look how cool it looks".  If you don't have $1000 available to make that statement, then you already answered your own question.

[Rabidfool]

Again, not looking to build one myself. Are there any other companies or sellers that build control panels similar to north coast?

[CheffoJeffo]

Welcome!

I do not have the time, or skill set, to build one from scratch.

You are most likely wrong, particularly given the turnaround time for custom stuff ... if you spent 30 minutes a day I bet that you would be done faster than Scott.

It seems to me to be just plain silly to ask about the prices that others would charge to build things for you. I have to admit that I don't know what the "signature series" illumination upgrade is.

Build it yourself -- it is much easier than you think.

[LeedsFan]

Again, not looking to build one myself. Are there any other companies or sellers that build control panels similar to north coast?

Is it just the woodworking you don't want to do? Are you willing to do a bit of part swapping?

If it's the latter then why not buy something cheap like an X-Arcade stick and swap out the joysticks/buttons for better quality? People generally dismiss the X-Arcade as rubbish, but it is quite sturdy. It's already set up to work with Mame as default. I owned one when I first discovered Mame and it was great for a while. The parts within aren't the the best (particularly the joysticks) but it is so easy to swap them out. You wouldn't need to do any woodworking or wiring. Just put the wires back where they were as you swap out the parts. You could even paint or overlay the panel with your own artwork once all the parts were out.

I didn't swap out the parts because I just sold it before I started my first project. But it was an option I considered and would have been dead easy.

[Rabidfool]

I do not like the look of the X Arcade stick at all. I want the cab and cp to look like one unit.

Are there any quality vendors for control panels other than North Coast?
What makes LEDs cost over $1000? Not being sarcastic, just curious.

[BobA]

These are North Coast Customs (Mameroom) prices
Multi color Illumination
# $8 per button
# $50 for trackball
# $45 per balltop joystick
# $85 per illumination driver board
     (10 controls per board)

Just do the math count the buttons on a 4 player panel with joysticks and trackball and compare the price to the cost of the parts at GGG.

The difference is what they charge you for labor to wire the parts up.  There is a whole pile of wiring added to a regular panel. So if you are willing to do the work yourself you can see what your savings are on just the Lighting mod.  If you want buy an empty cab and a control panel with no parts and then do the rest yourself.  You will save, save. save and you will know exactly how your cab works.

[javeryh]

You aren't going to get too many people on a BYO site to recommend going with a vendor at that cost.  It probably costs $1,000 for the lighted option due to all the extra time it takes to wiring everything - the parts aren't that much.  You could probably build anything they are selling for 1/2 the cost they are charging.

[rlemmon]

Hey man im in the same boat your in. Im thinking about getting a new cab to. I built the last one (and im happy with how it turned out) but im not sure if im up for it again or not.






I havent decided if i want a 4 player, cabaret or cocktil unit but I have been looking around for cab kits.
Here is what i Have so far other than mameroom/n.c. customs

http://www.arcadedepot.com/

http://www.arcadeshop.com/cabinets/cabinets.htm

http://www.dreamarcades.com/

If you need a pre wired control panel you might want to look around this forum to see if anyone could make you one. I make myown so I dont have any links for them.


As far as the prices being worth it : For the cab its a decent price. But for the control panel no way. Have you though about buying a cab kit then getting the project arcade book to learn how to build and wire a panel ? Thats what i did and belive me if I can do it anyone can. I had no idead how to do this stuff and the book along the people on this message board taught me all i needed to know. its really much easyer than you would think.

[Beretta]

my own project is puttering along at a snails pace, but it'll get done eventually.
more then the time or cost i wanted to do it my self.

i'll know exactly how it was put together, i'll beable to take pride in it after it's done.
no offense to any of the venders because im sure they all do great work, but i doubt any of them are going to do a better job then me on my own project.. thats not to say im a woodworking master. actually i suck at wood working.

but what i mean is i can get everything just the way i want it.. and if i dont like it i can change it.
plus there is the money issue.. even buying tools it'll be cheaper in the end, plus you got tools you can reuse again.

take your time do it your self.. go slow.

thats just my 2 credits.

[severdhed]

i just priced out some hardware for a friend of a friend today, to do a 4 player panel, six buttons for players 1 and 2, four buttons for players 3 and 4, four 8way joysticks, dedicated 4 way stick, 3" trackball, spinner, control interfaces, and a few extra buttons for coin/start/exit/pause and a few for near the 4way stick,...once you counted in shipping, the total came to around $380.  that is just for the controls, (basic controls, no light up fancy stuff)when you factor in the wire, crimp on connectors, wood, tmolding, artwork, plexiglass...and the time it takes to fabricate something like this, $770 seems pretty reasonable to me.


personally, i say build your own, but if you are going to buy, those prices seem reasonable....i would however avoid the lighting upgrades...just a waste of time.  you can always add that stuff later down the road if you decide you want to spend a bunch of money again

[Gatt]

UAII cabinet kit (shipped unassembled) = 495
Quad controller = 770
Signature series illumination upgrade = 1,019
Shipping and handling = 114.29
 

The cabinet price seems very good, however, the $770 for a control panel and $1789 for one with led's seems painfully high. Are these prices worth it and what are my alternatives?

Thank you in advance!

I'd email them and ask for clarification,  I'm not sure that it's 770 + 1,019,  it may be 770 or 1,019. I think maybe the email was being accidently vague.  $1019 is what I'd expect an illuminated panel to go for.

[RayB]

It's a box with a few controls, wiring and a keyboard encoder? Is there a PC inside it?? The price seems insane, but so many people are calling it fair that it's got me wondering what features I missed?!?!? Are the buttons gold-plated?!

[Rabidfool]

I'd email them and ask for clarification,  I'm not sure that it's 770 + 1,019,  it may be 770 or 1,019. I think maybe the email was being accidently vague.  $1019 is what I'd expect an illuminated panel to go for.

I did, and its 770 for the 4 player panal and an additional 1,019 for illumination.

[Turnarcades]

Everyone will agree their stuff is great and when it comes to the cost, as a vendor I can understand the price they are charging too. Other's estimates here of parts alone are fairly accurate and it is the labour you will largely be paying for, but you will also find after doing some research that a large chunk of a cabinet build cost goes into the control panel, as quality parts are not cheap and ultimately the controls and the way it plays are what will make or break a good machine.

It's not necessarily what you see in a picture that forms the cost; it's what you can't see. a single-joystick, 6-button layout is not relative in cost to an console joypad for example as many novices expect. Speaking from this side of the pond, joysticks run from £10 each to £40 each for the top-end sticks, with buttons around £2 a piece and analog controls can run close to three figures each, then you've got multiple interfaces, wiring and crimp jobs, testing etc. Once you throw in the lighting (which if done properly will use multiple encoder boards too) and ensuring the electronics are balanced to avoid power issues etc. it very soon adds up. In a fully-loaded panel you're talking several hundred pounds worth of parts alone, plus the labour and then of course a profit cut.

If it were really as simple as it appears, or you were really into saving money, you would be doing it yourself as most members of this site do. As I find myself doing on a daily basis, you have to remind people that if you're paying someone else to do it you're going to pay the premium for it. This is why your choice of other pre-fab units or custom panel builders is limited, as it's hard as a vendor to offer them at a price people want to pay once all costs are taken into account.

As a vendor, I defend NCC's prices. As a hobbyist, I always say look into doing stuff yourself first as you will be surprised how simple it is and how much you can save doing it yourself. If you still aren't willing to have a go after doing a bit of research, then you're going to have to (rightly so) stump up the premium for someone else to do a quality build for you.

[mark shaker]

I did, and its 770 for the 4 player panal and an additional 1,019 for illumination.

Yikes!

I don't think people should put too much time or $ into their first cab. Compromise: Find an old cab, slap some formica on the sides, replace the t-molding, mount the monitor and build the Control Panel.

If your still playing it after a year, then go for either building or buying the "perfect" cab.

   - Mark

[markronz]

I don't think people should put too much time or $ into their first cab. Compromise: Find an old cab, slap some formica on the sides, replace the t-molding, mount the monitor and build the Control Panel.

If your still playing it after a year, then go for either building or buying the "perfect" cab.

   - Mark

+1 

I don't know if I agree on the formica, but I do think you should consider finding an old cabinet and converting it.   This usually takes less skills that building one from scratch.


And as far as the lighting, it's cool, and I have it on my cabinet, but it is definitely pricey.   Like others have said, might want to build a more vanilla type cab and upgrade later.   But I do disagree with someone on the fact that it adds "no functionality" to the cabinet.   I have illuminated buttons and through the miracle that is LED Blinky, when I start a game, it only lights up the appropriate number of buttons.  This is useful...  But yes, it is mostly just cool looking.   

[syph007]

I think most of use agree that the building of the cabinet is alot of it not most of the fun of having one.. so it seems strange to think about buying one premade.  But anyway, assuming thats not an issue with you, then you have to pay in one way or another pay with your time, or with your money.. you choose.  If you ahve more money than time, then that's one thing, but most of us have more time than money

[Hawkweber]

If you ahve more money than time, then that's one thing, but most of us have more time than money

Then there are those of us who have neither the time nor money but still manage to get things done, albeit slowly!

[severdhed]

i have to agree with these guys...the building is the most rewarding part of this hobby.   I find that my cabinets very rarely ever get played by me.  Visitors love to play them, and i play them now and then, but i have way more fun working on them than i do playing them.  I have very little woodworking skills, and very few tools when i started on my frist cabinet project, but i got some cheap tools as i needed them, and learned alot along the way.  there is just something so rewarding about taking raw materials and turning them into something awesome. 

you can get cheap tools at harbor freight, they are not designed for heavy everyday use, but i'm not a carpenter, their tools are more than sufficient for what i needed. if you have a drill, jigsaw and a router, you can build some pretty cool stuff.  i'd suggest looking around locally for an empty cabinet for cheap, and then build your own panel for it.

[mvsfan]

Again, not looking to build one myself. Are there any other companies or sellers that build control panels similar to north coast?

Is it just the woodworking you don't want to do? Are you willing to do a bit of part swapping?

If it's the latter then why not buy something cheap like an X-Arcade stick and swap out the joysticks/buttons for better quality? People generally dismiss the X-Arcade as rubbish, but it is quite sturdy. It's already set up to work with Mame as default. I owned one when I first discovered Mame and it was great for a while. The parts within aren't the the best (particularly the joysticks) but it is so easy to swap them out. You wouldn't need to do any woodworking or wiring. Just put the wires back where they were as you swap out the parts. You could even paint or overlay the panel with your own artwork once all the parts were out.

I didn't swap out the parts because I just sold it before I started my first project. But it was an option I considered and would have been dead easy.

Their are companies out their who will mill and drill a control panel any way you want exactly to the specs you give them, though im sorry i dont have names on hand. i milled and drilled mine myself.

My point is that if you go this route and also go with a Mini Ipac, or the xarcade Diy kit, installing buttons and wiring really just couldnt be any easier, everything is already wired to the board, and its tagged for you.

[Marsupial]

I just find funny someone who comes on a site named "build your own" arcade control, and wants to know how to avoid building it...

[Rabidfool]

I just find funny someone who comes on a site named "build your own" arcade control, and wants to know how to avoid building it...

I am glad I could amuse you. I just wish some people here would realize that not everyone has the time, space or tools to complete all aspects of the build. I figured I would post here as product specific forums usually have a vendor or a private builder or two that offer services. I was right as I have received offers. Also this site has been a plethora of knowledge and I wanted to tap into a great resource.

Everyone else, thank you for the assistance and opinions.

[H4CK3R]

I have one, with all the lights, bells and whistle, its been about 2 years now, and my Cab is still 100% perfect, same as the day i bought it from mameroom.com

Scott has been more then help full with my product and helped me greatly when I needed it, even if it had nothing to do with the control panel itself, and a few other products he didnt sell me.

If I had to do it all over again, I would sure buy from him again.  I think I have gotten my moneys worth.

Day I bought it....




To today




I have opened it up... The wiring job inside is INSANE.  Each button has 9 wires going to it, Grounds, Red, Blue, Green, and the contacts for the actual micro switch.  There are over 400 Connections inside my Control Panel alone.  400 items that needed tightening, soldered, tested, and configured.

Sure I love tinkering with things, but my control panel is the best money I could of spent.  Had I done it myself, either my wife or I would be dead... LOL

 

H4CK3R

[Beretta]

cool lit ball tops.. anyone making those in bat form for Happ comp's?

[Rabidfool]

I have one, with all the lights, bells and whistle, its been about 2 years now, and my Cab is still 100% perfect, same as the day i bought it from mameroom.com

Scott has been more then help full with my product and helped me greatly when I needed it, even if it had nothing to do with the control panel itself, and a few other products he didnt sell me.

If I had to do it all over again, I would sure buy from him again.  I think I have gotten my moneys worth.

Day I bought it....




To today




I have opened it up... The wiring job inside is INSANE.  Each button has 9 wires going to it, Grounds, Red, Blue, Green, and the contacts for the actual micro switch.  There are over 400 Connections inside my Control Panel alone.  400 items that needed tightening, soldered, tested, and configured.

Sure I love tinkering with things, but my control panel is the best money I could of spent.  Had I done it myself, either my wife or I would be dead... LOL

 

H4CK3R

Sir, Your videos are what made me want it in the first place.

[bkenobi]

Perhaps I should rephrase my early contention regarding lighting being useless.  When you have as many controls as H4CK3R does on his panel, you really do need some help to figure out what you need to use for a specific game.  I'm not a huge fan of frankenpanels, but if you have sufficient labeling (which would include lighting as one method), then they aren't nearly as bad.  The primary problem with them IMO is the difficulty in understanding what you need to push to play a game but if you have lights like that then it's simple!

[Rabidfool]

cool lit ball tops.. anyone making those in bat form for Happ comp's?

I have been looking also but haven't found any yet. Would much rather those than ball tops.

[opt2not]

holy frankenpanel batman! 

[H4CK3R]

Its not as Cluttered as it appears.  4 Player layout with 1 4 way.

Each player has start, and coin, There is an enter button, and escape, on both sides.  Everything is labeled so its easy to navigate.

This cab was built for Hyperspin.  Around 41,000 games.  out of thoose 41,000 games There is only a few I cant play nicely.

H4CK3R

[WhereEaglesDare]

out of those 41000 which have you never played?    Also I noticed that you have 6 buttons for each player, how many  4 player games use 6 buttons, from what ive seen they mostly use 2 or 4.

[H4CK3R]

out of those 41000 which have you never played?    Also I noticed that you have 6 buttons for each player, how many  4 player games use 6 buttons, from what ive seen they mostly use 2 or 4.

Honetly, alot.  Don't know what the kids have played, they play it more then me.  And they can figure out the cab easy.  6 Buttons instead of 2 or 4.  There are a few games that require all 6, And I was only going to do this once, Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.  Besides that it evens out the Control panel nicely.

Having all the games available and not playing them isnt an issue, its not having a game that a guest might want to play and not having it.  It's also alittle dick waving too.. lol

[opt2not]

Honetly, alot.  Don't know what the kids have played, they play it more then me.  And they can figure out the cab easy.  6 Buttons instead of 2 or 4.  There are a few games that require all 6, And I was only going to do this once, Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.  Besides that it evens out the Control panel nicely.

I'm not aware of any 4 player - 6 button games, other than Guilty Gear Isuka. I believe that's the only game that uses all 6 buttons for all 4 players. Unless you're actually playing that one game...seems like a waste of buttons to me.

It's also alittle dick waving too.. lol

Yeah, I figured as much.
Like I said, Holy frankenpanel Batman!
But hey, whatever floats your boat.

[syph007]

No offense intended but that thing is for sure a franken panel.. wow.  You know it is for sure when it has 4 P controls AND a flight stick... Seeing flight sticks on a standard panel makes me cringe.

[H4CK3R]

It's all good, your in-tittled  to your opinion.  It works for me, and my family.  And obviously others have liked it so much, they too are going with the same layout.  But hey, if putting other peoples projects down, or degrading them floats your boat, hope you get your rocks off.  To each their own.

Mind you this was also my first build, and I had no knowledge of BYOAC.  I think I did pretty well.

This was my second build, I am sure you can find some flaws there too....







H4CK3R

[Rabidfool]

  But hey, if putting other peoples projects down, or degrading them floats your boat, hope you get your rocks off. 


H4CK3R

Yeah there seems to be a lot of that here on this site. 

Would you mind posting a pic of inside the cp?

[H4CK3R]

It looks a lot better then this picture, its the only one I took after opening it up to take a look.

Everything is done real nicely.



Its a little over whelming to say the least.  But what would you expect.  Also the price he quoted you is a  bit less then what I was charged,  Maybe parts came down a bit, ect.  But i would still pay what I was charged in a heart beat if I needed another.

 

[Rabidfool]

Still borderline on it. I was going to downgrade and just get a 2p cp, but the price between that and a 4p is very small.

How easy is it to setup the lights to show what buttons are used when you load a specific game?

[H4CK3R]

Azroo is a good guy and helps when ever he can, he helped me set mine up.  Like anything else, its alittle work to get everything perfect.  But worth it in the end.

Personally, if your gonna spend money on it, make it right the first time.  Like I have said, rather have it, and not need it, then need it and not have it.   To be honest, there have only been a handfull of times when all 4 players get played.  But its nice to know we can do it, instead of people sitting out. 

If you go the 2 player option you'll save a little cash, but you will never re invest and upgrade to a 4 player set.

Makes a great babysitter too =p

[opt2not]

But hey, if putting other peoples projects down, or degrading them floats your boat, hope you get your rocks off.  To each their own.

Hey I'm not putting you down, a frankenpanel is a frankenpanel. Just stating the facts. It's not necessarily a negative thing, it's completely valid if you can actually make use if it all. Though, if a builder is looking for advice on a panel, my first inclination would be to not recommend the frankenpanel route.

I just had to call BS on the 4 player-6 button statement you made, that's all.
6-buttons for all 4 players is not necessary and a waste of time/money IMO for one game that makes use of it.

Mind you this was also my first build, and I had no knowledge of BYOAC.  I think I did pretty well.

For sure. The lighting is great, the cleanliness is nice too...that\s why people ask for opinions here, so we can all comment on it and learn from each other. It's called progression.

This was my second build, I am sure you can find some flaws there too....

VERY AWESOME. Love me a good virtual pinball table! 
The only flaw I have is with your inability to take a bit of criticism. You post a picture, people are going to comment on it. It happens.

But other than that, amazing looking cabinet, very well done!

Yeah there seems to be a lot of that here on this site. 

This is a forum that people critique and comment on each others work, to help increase their quality and craftsmanship. It can't all be "pats on the head", "sugar and spice" comments. How would people learn from that? This passive-aggressiveness that people display now-a-days is just so insincere. Tell it how it is, don't put on a smile and say it's all good when inside you're thinking "daaaaamn!".

My advice to Rabidfool:  Find out what games you want to have running on this thing before you spend the time and money on what controls to support. If money isn't an issue, then go crazy. Franken it up!

[drventure]

There are a few games that require all 6, And I was only going to do this once, Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.  Besides that it evens out the Control panel nicely.

My sentiments exactly. I'm at almost 3 years and counting with my build. Not really planning to do it twice, so better to have it and not need it, blah blah.

Yeah, Frankenpanels are what they are. Mine's got a flight stick as well 

I don't have all the lighting, but, given OND's lit ring button design, it's not quite out of the question 

Then again, I did cram a totally useless plasma ball and a brass inlay into my CP, so I'm probably not one to take any CP building advice from!

[Beretta]

There are a few games that require all 6, And I was only going to do this once, Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.  Besides that it evens out the Control panel nicely.

My sentiments exactly. I'm at almost 3 years and counting with my build. Not really planning to do it twice, so better to have it and not need it, blah blah.

Yeah, Frankenpanels are what they are. Mine's got a flight stick as well 

I don't have all the lighting, but, given OND's lit ring button design, it's not quite out of the question 

Then again, I did cram a totally useless plasma ball and a brass inlay into my CP, so I'm probably not one to take any CP building advice from!

pix? brass inlay sounds swear i could just imagine doing a pacman, or a MK dragon.. that would be awesome.

btw there is also 1 or 2, 5 button 3 player games.. "Guardians of the 'Hood" it's like pitfighter but side scroll beat'em up style.

4player 6 button (if correct at MAW's) lists 14 games
and 4player 5 button another 2 games.

so approx 20 games can be played on that 6 button 4 player panel that would'nt otherwise on a 4x4.

[DashRendar]

There are a few games that require all 6, And I was only going to do this once, Rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.  Besides that it evens out the Control panel nicely.

My sentiments exactly. I'm at almost 3 years and counting with my build. Not really planning to do it twice, so better to have it and not need it, blah blah.

Yeah, Frankenpanels are what they are. Mine's got a flight stick as well  

I don't have all the lighting, but, given OND's lit ring button design, it's not quite out of the question  

Then again, I did cram a totally useless plasma ball and a brass inlay into my CP, so I'm probably not one to take any CP building advice from!

pix? brass inlay sounds swear i could just imagine doing a pacman, or a MK dragon.. that would be awesome.

btw there is also 1 or 2, 5 button 3 player games.. "Guardians of the 'Hood" it's like pitfighter but side scroll beat'em up style.

4player 6 button (if correct at MAW's) lists 14 games
and 4player 5 button another 2 games.

so approx 20 games can be played on that 6 button 4 player panel that would'nt otherwise on a 4x4.

What about consoles?  That's usually where 6 or more buttons are needed.   

[opt2not]

btw there is also 1 or 2, 5 button 3 player games.. "Guardians of the 'Hood" it's like pitfighter but side scroll beat'em up style.

Sweet! I'm going to check that out...wonder if it's any good.

4player 6 button (if correct at MAW's) lists 14 games
and 4player 5 button another 2 games.

If you actually look at those games you'll notice none of them are 4 players simultaneously, except Guilty Gear Isuka. They're all stated as 2P sim.
Believe me, I've gone through this research before when building my El Diablo Mechanico machine.

so approx 20 games can be played on that 6 button 4 player panel that would'nt otherwise on a 4x4.

bzzzzt. incorrect.

[WhereEaglesDare]

so approx 20 games can be played on that 6 button 4 player panel that would'nt otherwise on a 4x4.

bzzzzt. incorrect.

SURVEY SAID....    BAHHHHHH

[Epyx]

I am glad I could amuse you. I just wish some people here would realize that not everyone has the time, space or tools to complete all aspects of the build. I figured I would post here as product specific forums usually have a vendor or a private builder or two that offer services. I was right as I have received offers. Also this site has been a plethora of knowledge and I wanted to tap into a great resource.

Everyone else, thank you for the assistance and opinions.

I guess what bothers me are the statements:  "I don't have time", "I don't have the skills" and "I don't have the space" .  

Are you going to have time to play a purchased unit? If yes, then you most definitely have the time to build one.  Many builders here built in apartments and on balconies. As for the skills...most here were complete neophytes and many of us had little or no tool experience prior to visiting these forums.

Not trying to dissuade you from buying. I think thats a great alternative...but just be honest and say you have no desire to build because you don't like building and don't want to like it, you just want to play

You would avoid a lot of the suggestions to build that way...

[CheffoJeffo]

What about consoles?  That's usually where 6 or more buttons are needed.   

+1 ... people get tunnelvision with MAME sometimes

I guess what bothers me are the statements:  "I don't have time", "I don't have the skills" and "I don't have the space" . 

Are you going to have time to play a purchased unit? If yes, then you most definitely have the time to build one.  Many builders here built in apartments and on balconies. As for the skills...most here were complete neophytes and many of us had little or no tool experience prior to visiting these forums.

Nicely said.

[syph007]

What about consoles?  That's usually where 6 or more buttons are needed.   

+1 ... people get tunnelvision with MAME sometimes

I always thought it was blasphemy to put console games on an arcade cabinet.  Am I in the minority on that?

[DashRendar]

I always thought it was blasphemy to put console games on an arcade cabinet.  Am I in the minority on that?

Not sure, but considering that many Dreamcast and N64 games also exist nearly exactly as arcade games, makes it a good option.

I have console-emulated Gauntlet Legends and NFL Blitz in my cab, because the MAME alternatives are virtually unplayable.   

[syph007]

I always thought it was blasphemy to put console games on an arcade cabinet.  Am I in the minority on that?

Not sure, but considering that many Dreamcast and N64 games also exist nearly exactly as arcade games, makes it a good option.

I have console-emulated Gauntlet Legends and NFL Blitz in my cab, because the MAME alternatives are virtually unplayable.   

Oh that's true, hadn't thought of that.  I was picturing trying to play mario with arcade controls, and it just seemed weird. NES and SNES emulators are available for so many other devices that work better than arcade controls would.

[RandyT]

I was picturing trying to play mario with arcade controls, and it just seemed weird. NES and SNES emulators are available for so many other devices that work better than arcade controls would.

I totally disagree with this statement.  If a game is an arcade-style game, then playing it with arcade-style controls is anything but "weird".  And games like "mario" are certainly arcade-style games.

Anyone who shies away from playing some of these console titles on real arcade controls is, IMHO, depriving themselves of a new and possibly better way of experiencing a lot of the older games that used poorer controls as a matter of practicality.  IOW, if you have the good stuff, it makes perfect sense to use it.

RandyT

[syph007]

I was picturing trying to play mario with arcade controls, and it just seemed weird. NES and SNES emulators are available for so many other devices that work better than arcade controls would.

I totally disagree with this statement.  If a game is an arcade-style game, then playing it with arcade-style controls is anything but "weird".  And games like "mario" are certainly arcade-style games.

Anyone who shies away from playing some of these console titles on real arcade controls is, IMHO, depriving themselves of a new and possibly better way of experiencing a lot of the older games that used poorer controls as a matter of practicality.  IOW, if you have the good stuff, it makes perfect sense to use it.

RandyT

So you must prefer arcade controls to gamepads then?  I couldnt play the NES classics with anything but a gamepad, wouldn't feel the same as I remembered, which is why it seems weird.  I know there was an arcade type stick for the NES but I never got used to it.

[Turnarcades]

Wouldn't run my arcade cab without consoles personally. There are loads of games that play better with arcade controls even on 16-bit consoles, as this generation was borne out of arcade conversions. For example, I rate the Megadrive versions of Golden Axe and Alien Storm over the arcade versions, plus the former had sequels only on console so of course they play well too. I can think of hundreds of fine examples, and particularly with PS1, many 3D fighters that demand high-spec from MAME were ported to PS1 in a much better form and are less demanding in terms of emulation - Use pSX and think along the lines of the Tekken series, Rival Schools, SF EX and Soul Edge, which all pissed on the arcade versions as they had more characters and gameplay options.

[Beretta]

I always thought it was blasphemy to put console games on an arcade cabinet.  Am I in the minority on that?

i dont know but ya i'd run consoles on a arcade cabinet they're still games.

some games really need a game pad though..

but some games are very nice on consoles and would be well suited for joystick play.

super double dragon on SNES comes to mind as a superb beat'em up (which is my favorite type of game next to fighters)
it's better then the original arcade double dragons..

another is river city ransom on NES, probably my all time favorite beat'em of any platform arcade included.
the game is rather short but i spent countless hours with my dad playing it.

for fighters there is mortal kombat trilogy.. only on consoles and PC.. any MK fan will love MKT the last greatest 2d MK, pretty much every character you can think of is in it up to that point int he series and it even comes with a few extra classic versions of a couple.

so ya mame is the focus but do not discount the bazillian of console games out there.

i my self am still toying with the idea of a 8 button panel rather then a 6, you'ed need 10 to cover psx
it's hard to decide whats most important everything is a trade off unless you go with the mother of all franken pannels.

[opt2not]

i dont know but ya i'd run consoles on a arcade cabinet they're still games.

some games really need a game pad though..

but some games are very nice on consoles and would be well suited for joystick play.

True dat.
I've been playing my favourite NES side-scroller-shump, Lifeforce with a joystick...makes a hellava difference than using the old NES controller.
But then, NES is really well emulated.

Console support is totally worth it if you can manage it, and there are a lot of games that are great with an arcade joystick. One that instantly comes to mind (a game that I constantly play on my cabinet)...Pacman:CE!!  So awesome with a proper 4-way joystick.
Playing that on a 360 controller hurts my soul.

[Epyx]

My first exposure to the NES was via the playchoice arcade cabs so for me the genuine controls are arcade controls.  Many of you may be too young to remember the Playchoice cabs.

[Benevolance]

And thanks for making the rest of us old because we remember them. 

The NES games are the most popular choices when I have guests. Everyone played Nintendo and has fond memories, plus there were lots of fantastic 2 player games. The original Mario Bros (not super mario) is one of the most competitive co-operative games I've played. Trying to avoid being 'accidentally' killed by your partner while advancing a high score makes for good gaming and lots of cussing.

P.S. Rivercity Ransom was a fan-frickin'-tastic game. Still one of my favorites to this day.

[opt2not]

My first exposure to the NES was via the playchoice arcade cabs so for me the genuine controls are arcade controls.  Many of you may be too young to remember the Playchoice cabs.

Wait what forum is this...oh, Main. Yeah, many of the readers here are probably too young to remember Playchoice.

I remember playing Nintendo Baseball on a playchoice cabinet at a Chuck E Cheese's in Toronto! I remember you'd keep feeding the machine for more playtime...gawd I feel old now.

P.S. Rivercity Ransom was a fan-frickin'-tastic game. Still one of my favorites to this day.

+1
So ahead of its time...

[flashiv]

I installed a USB hub flush to the left side of my CP.  It matches the color of my cab, so no Frankenpanel.  Just plug in my Gravis game pads when I play console games.  Also good for when I want a flight yoke/stick/steering wheel for MAME and PC games.

[Beretta]

only seen players choice once, had goonies at a laundromat.

[The Habbler]

When I was a kid there was a Playchoice-10 that was stacked in Lake Geneva, WI. It had the gun for hogans alley and all 10 slots had games on it.

[Epyx]

Lol the only reason I say too young is that there are a few people posting to this thread that just don't get arcade controls for NES games...I can only assume that the 54 Playchoice Games were not experienced by them because perhaps they were 5 or 6 when they were exposed to the NES at home...whereas I was 14 or 15 when it came out (38 now!).

[Edwards80]

I installed a USB hub flush to the left side of my CP.  It matches the color of my cab, so no Frankenpanel.  Just plug in my Gravis game pads when I play console games.  Also good for when I want a flight yoke/stick/steering wheel for MAME and PC games.

Great idea, I'm going to be doing this with wireless xbox controllers. There are lots of console games that suit arcade controls but occasionally a pad makes more sense. I don't really want a separate PC for emulation by the TV for console gaming, so keeping them all in the cab is a bonus...I have my favourite console games on the real consoles by the tv anyway.

Just to weigh in on the build yourself or buy topic. I've ordered a 4 player cab shell from Turnarcades. I'm sure I could buy the right tools, learn the right skills and make room for the build at home and I am planning on building something myself in the future on a smaller scale, but for my main cab I decided paying someone who knows what they are doing would be the best option!

The main reason I decided to buy the cab shell rather than build was because I don't think I would enjoy the process! I'm sure it would be satisfying once it was done but I'd rather start with a smaller project. I'll definitely enjoy wiring all the controls etc though

[manman]

Lol the only reason I say too young is that there are a few people posting to this thread that just don't get arcade controls for NES games...I can only assume that the 54 Playchoice Games were not experienced by them because perhaps they were 5 or 6 when they were exposed to the NES at home...whereas I was 14 or 15 when it came out (38 now!).

I don't really get the logic here... you mean they weren't old enough to go to arcades?  Let's be honest here, by the time a lot of these games were put on playchoice machines they were vastly more popular on the home NES console... the percentage of people playing a lot of these on an arcade machine vs at home is probably tiny (not saying all, just many).  Plus- 54 games is such a tiny percentage of the overall library for nes, haha.  After the NES came out, I don't think arcades really hit that second golden age until the SFII boom.  I played my share of some of those games in the arcades (actually more like pizza joints cuz I rarely saw them in arcades..), but I gotta say, I really land on the side of arcade controls for console emus not feeling natrual- at least in the general sense.  I guess it's really a personal choice though, I go with whatever the strongest experience was for me.  That means console controls for most console games, and arcade stick for arcade pcb/mame/or console games that are almost identical to something from the arcades like a lot of fighting games.

[92greenyj]

Many NES games were actually in Arcades in cabinets back in the day. Some even started in the arcade before making their way to the NES console (Donkey Kong anybody? Rampage? etc) I fully intend to have consoles on my cabinet when it is complete and for several reasons. First is that I no longer have my classic consoles, or at least most of the games for them anymore. Secondly, as someone mentioned before, some games don't work in MAME well yet, but the console ports work just fine on the console emulators. Thirdly, I want to really make this thing be a trip down memory lane and re-live the glory days of video games. Before they turned into the same recycled First person shooters with a different name and lead character. This is one of the reasons I refuse to buy a 360. I hate FPS games. they are all the same recycled garbage over and over again. I want to go back and play games when they were GOOD!

[CheffoJeffo]

Many NES games were actually in Arcades in cabinets back in the day. Some even started in the arcade before making their way to the NES console (Donkey Kong anybody? Rampage? etc)

Somebody is confusing arcade games that were ported to the NES with NES games ... 

[92greenyj]

Many NES games were actually in Arcades in cabinets back in the day. Some even started in the arcade before making their way to the NES console (Donkey Kong anybody? Rampage? etc)

Somebody is confusing arcade games that were ported to the NES with NES games ... 

how am i confusing it? I said clearly that many "NES classics" were arcade games first. then were ported to the NES. DK was an arcade game first. and if im not mistaken so was the original Mario Brothers and Rampage. I know there are others but those are 3 of my favorites that stick out at the moment

[CheffoJeffo]

Sorry ... it's just that, for the old folks, it is strange to hear somebody call Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage NES games since they were arcade games which were ported (e.g. NOT the same game, but a facsimile) to various consoles.

Anybody who cites Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage as a reason to include consoles in their arcade cabinet is always going to bewilder me.

[opt2not]

Sorry ... it's just that, for the old folks, it is strange to hear somebody call Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage NES games since they were arcade games which were ported (e.g. NOT the same game, but a facsimile) to various consoles.

Anybody who cites Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage as a reason to include consoles in their arcade cabinet is always going to bewilder me.

Agreed.
People need to know the difference between a port and an actual release.

Though some arcade games did get an NES overhaul...like for instance Gyruss. The arcade version and NES version is not the same game. The NES version was more of a remake than a port -- with additional gameplay elements like boss fights, multiple powerups, and new artwork.

[manman]

Sorry ... it's just that, for the old folks, it is strange to hear somebody call Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage NES games since they were arcade games which were ported (e.g. NOT the same game, but a facsimile) to various consoles.

Anybody who cites Donkey Kong, Mario Bros or Rampage as a reason to include consoles in their arcade cabinet is always going to bewilder me.

exactly.  Playchoice itself (if I remember correctly) was like an arcade system for playing nes titles, which is different than some games like those mentioned above which were actual arcade releases ported to NES later (although there is some overlap in titles between the two)

To me, none of those reasons listed are actual reasons to put console emulators in a cab, they are reasons to either get the original games, mame releases of them, or console emu releases of them.  If you are nostalgic for how you originally experienced them, then getting the originals or getting them for mame and putting them in a cab makes sense...as does arcade controls for a mame cab... not sure how that's a reason for console emus being in a cab/hooked up to arcade controls.

I guess if console emu is somehow your only option to relive your arcade experiences for those games it makes some sense, but just in general it seems strange to me to hook up console emus in an arcade cab...like...paying metroid or megaman or something on arcade controls just wouldn't feel right to me.  You can't argue with preference- if that's someone's preference, more power to you.  But trying to reason it out as far as what titles appeared where or whatever doesn't make sense to me.  In the 99% case- if you remember playing it in the arcade, it's an arcade game (regardless of what it was later ported to), and you can find it in mame/original pcb.

[Edwards80]

I'll be putting console emulators in my cab, purely because some games suit an arcade stick & buttons. After all a lot of console/computer games were influenced by arcade games and weren't ports. Quite a few scrolling shoot-em-ups on the Amiga spring to mind.

Obviously if its a choice between playing the Arcade release of something or playing a console port, the original is the only choice.

Some console games would just feel odd without a control pad though!

[scept1c]

I preferred to build the CP myself, it's cheaper and no one can know what you want better than yo do.

[XtraSmiley]

Nice looking cab guy.  One thing I will add is that there are a few home emulated games that use 6 buttons on player 3-4 (hmm, at least I think there were...) so at least you can play those games with Hyperspin.

As for the OP, I have both home built systems and purchased ones (Slikstik) and they both have their advantages and disadvantages.  I say go the purchase route if you don't want to do the work.  THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS, contrary to what many on these forums make you feel.

BYOACers, remember, part of the BYO also applies to software, so there is nothing wrong with coming here and asking for help/price comparisons on the hardware side before going on to the software side.

Remember, we're a friendly community, here to help, right?

EDIT:  Wow, that took awhile to appear, glitch!  Anway, yes it has been stated about the home systems and extra buttons, but anyway, good luck with your decision!

[Epyx]

I don't really get the logic here... you mean they weren't old enough to go to arcades?  Let's be honest here, by the time a lot of these games were put on playchoice machines they were vastly more popular on the home NES console... the percentage of people playing a lot of these on an arcade machine vs at home is probably tiny (not saying all, just many).  Plus- 54 games is such a tiny percentage of the overall library for nes, haha.  After the NES came out, I don't think arcades really hit that second golden age until the SFII boom.  I played my share of some of those games in the arcades (actually more like pizza joints cuz I rarely saw them in arcades..), but I gotta say, I really land on the side of arcade controls for console emus not feeling natrual- at least in the general sense.  I guess it's really a personal choice though, I go with whatever the strongest experience was for me.  That means console controls for most console games, and arcade stick for arcade pcb/mame/or console games that are almost identical to something from the arcades like a lot of fighting games.

My logic was that I WAS OLD ENOUGH to go to the arcades...thus my exposure to many NES games was on a Playchoice 10 as opposed to an NES because it was at the arcade that I played these games...the only gaming I did at home was on my C64.  I was also being a little facetious in my condemnation of them being too young...almost a "while I was doing this you were still in diapers..." all in good fun.

To me console games just play better on arcade controls, probably because the first few waves of home games were either ports or arcade like in their delivery so that people could feel like they had a piece of the arcade on their console. As a result a lot of games just play better with arcade controls...you cited Metroid in a later post as not being the type to play with arcade controls. I happen to think Metroid plays fantastic on an arcade controller and same with other games like Turrican etc...about the only genre I don't play a lot of  on the arcade cab are RPGs and only because they require longer stretches of time but that doesn't mean the controller doesn't feel better

[WhereEaglesDare]

Plus there are plenty of games that were ported to the console that run better on emulaor, PSX version of UMK runs better, at least my pc runs the PSX version better.

[manman]

well, my comment about not getting the logic was partly because I don't see that age as precluding you from going to the arcade, but mostly because playchoice is such a small percentage of overal games for the nes, and the overall argument doesn't just cover nes, it's consoels in general.

You are right though, and that's mainly why I said my opinion was meant to cover the "general" case.  I still think that the arcade port argument just begs the question- then why not get the original arcade version and isn't really an argument for having console emulators on a cab, but if some people think the console ports are better that's their own opinion I can't really argue that.  I personally used to put in some pretty long stretches on metroid, even though it WOULD work, I'm not sure I'd want to play that on an arcade stick, haha.  But yeah, nostalgia wise, i'll always like a pad over a stick for consoles except for those cases you guys brought up.

[Epyx]

well, my comment about not getting the logic was partly because I don't see that age as precluding you from going to the arcade, but mostly because playchoice is such a small percentage of overal games for the nes, and the overall argument doesn't just cover nes, it's consoels in general

Where I lived, you had to be 14 or older to go into an arcade...that was the city bylaw.  You may have experienced a different bylaw where you lived.  The only exceptions were stores that had 4 or less games as they didn't fall into the bylaw category of "arcade".  However, I was mostly being facetious as indicated.

As for the pad vs controller well we can agree to disagree...that one is purely preference.  You can not get it all you want but it doesn't change the fact that I prefer arcade controllers to gamepads for gaming in general.  Even my Commodore 64 games like Winter Games etc feel better for me with an arcade controller than they do with the original Wico I owned, but again that is me

[syph007]

Ah I think I see where people are coming from.  I'm late 30's , child of the 80's BUT I grew up in rural ontario, no arcades nothing like that.  I never got to play arcade games as a kid EVER.  So my games were all 2600, NES etc... thats why I prefer gamepads etc for console games.. it's what I grew up with.  I wanted to build an arcade machine to get to actually make up for what I missed out on as a kid.  So for me it has to be arcade controls on that, with arcade games... Im getting to play things like arkanoid, DK etc for the first time ever!  So in my case, thats why it seems to weird to put my console games on there, where I wouldnt enjoy playing them.  I suck with arcade controls... in fact when i was bulding my machine, I had a usb NES pad plugged in to test, and I got better scores with that, than arcade controls...

[manman]

Hey, I hear you- preference is preference I'm not trying to argue that at all.  I was just giving my reasoning for why I understand why some people "don't get" putting arcade emulators in arcade cabs.  That was the first thing I thought when I first saw the elaborate hyperspin setups with snes, genesis, etc.  I can think of more than a handful of games on those systems I might like to play with an arcade stick- but for the most part reliving my console days just feels like I need a pad.  That said, I actually DID play my fair share of rpgs or games where you need to sit for long stretches in those days, haha.

I never knew there were age limits for getting into the arcades in some places, we never had that where I live.  Commodore 64, haha...hmm, I could get into some moon patrol on the arcade sticks!

[Endaar]

Hmmn, could have sworn I posted this already. Sorry if it's a duplicate.

To touch on the original topic...

I built my cab with a UAII kit and a custom drilled 2P panel from NCC. Overall I think the kits are reasonable for the price. Nearly $1800 for a 4P lit CP is crazy however unless you absolutely positively do not want to do any CP work yourself.

Wiring a lit CP is very time consuming, but it is not difficult; overall for me it was one of the easiest parts of the project. Getting the lighting to work the way you want it was much more of a challenge.

I'll give you my (rough from memory) costs as a comparison.

CP Kit: $120
Buttons: GGG clear NovaGems w/ RGB LED modules - $7 each x 20 = $140.
Joysticks: Happ Comps x 2 = $20, U360 + accessories = $90, Happ 4-way top-fire = $25
Trackball: U-Trak $120
Spinner: TT2 - $80
LED-Wiz x3: $135
Powered USB Hub: $35
IPAC4: $50
Wiring: $30
Misc Stuff: $40

That's a total of $885 if my mental math is right. My joysticks are not lit and you're looking at a 4P panel, so you have to adjust for that, but that's still around $800 for labor. I think you can wire a panel like this in 20 hours or less, so you've got to decide if you can come up with enough time to save yourself a lot of money. Even with a prebuilt CP and a cabinet kit, this will still be a time consuming project, and 20 hours shouldn't make a huge difference either way.

Endaar