Planning first project. X-Arcade or not?

[RandomCitizenX]

I have finally decided to start a project after lurking here off and on for about three years. The problem I am currently facing is whether I should completely scratch build or if I should buy an x-arcade to gut. It seems like the x-arcade may be the cheaper way to go, but I am not sure of the quality and know I want to do illuminated buttons eventually. I have already worked up a very rough sketch (attached below) of the cab I want to build in Sketchup. It is based off of the excellent Terminus, slim cabinet by markc74. I have a graphic designer buddy who is going to help with some custom art for the cp, marquee, and sides. I appreciate any advice that some of you more experienced builders may be willing to offer.

[Epyx]

X Gaming sells two decent peripherals:

WG D9800 (Which they are a reseller for)
Betson Imperial Trackball Clone

Rest is junk.

I would buy your own parts and build your own CP...it isn't as difficult as you would think and is the main point of this website..build your own

[Ginsu Victim]

X Gaming sells two decent peripherals:

WG D9800 (Which they are a reseller for)
Betson Imperial Trackball Clone

Rest is junk.

I would buy your own parts and build your own CP...it isn't as difficult as you would think and is the main point of this website..build your own

Everything Epyx just said is the truth.

It's a good deal on a trackball, and I've heard it's actually pretty good.

Everything else, just buy the parts elsewhere and you'll be much better off.

[mwong168]

If you are building the cabinet from scratch yourself might as well do the control panel from scratch too.  If you have one or access to a router that would be great since you need it to make the slot for the t-molding and recess from underneath for the HAPP or iL competition stick like this:




By doing that you get the proper height once the joystick is installed, it really bothers me when I see HAPP/iL sticks look like stubbies 

From the cost perspective you aren't really saving much and actually paying more for inferior quality arcade parts since X-Arcade makes their own HAPP knock offs in china.

KeyWiz40-ST PS2 Interface $35.95 (from groovygamegear.com)
iL 8-Way Eurojoystick $9.95 x 2 = $19.90
Happ Pushbutton with Horizontal Microswitch $1.55 x 16 = $24.80 [this will cover P1+P2]
Happ  Player Imprint, White Pushbutton with Horizontal Microswitch $1.95 x 2 = $3.90 [this will cover P1+P2 start buttons]
Happ Pushbutton with Horizontal Microswitch $1.55 x 2 = $3.10 [if you care for the side buttons for pinball games]
Wiring and pack of 100 quick disconnects $10
MDF wood required to make a stick enclosure $10-15

Total so far is ~$112.65 plus shipping where as an X-Arcade dual stick is $129.95 plus shipping.  In the end, you will end up with something that suits your needs 100% without having to settle and also a sense of accomplishment once your cab is done.  Also you won't get any grief when you post your project thread and people posting stuff like:

"ugh... x-arcade sucks!!!"
"nice cab but fugly control panel"
"how come you didn't make your control panel from scratch?"
"only a matter of time before the joystick or buttons fail  "
etc....

[mwong168]

Don't get intimidated with the wiring cause it is very simple to do, trust me I've done enough wiring in the past 9 months and I get better at it each time such as finding a better way to organize wires or orient the microswitches.  For example, I re-wired this X-arcade which I bought partially gutted from a friend of mine for $20 and I put in a GPWiz and dropped in some HAPP buttons for my cousin in Miami.  Took me just under 1 hour to wire using network cable and everything worked on the first try.



Now after doing a few panels I have learned that orienting the micro switches shown below as opposed to diagonal in the same direction makes for cleaner wire grouping.  Also didn't use network cable which allowed me to make the exact perfect length to each button's microswitch.



The only difficult part of wiring is the ground.  Depending on how many you are daisy chaining because once you have one bad connection in the middle your while sequence is affected and you have to trace one by one.  Fortunately I have been very lucky in all my panels and haven't had to spend too much time checking but aside from that the encoder boards such as the KeyWiz, GPWiz or I-PACs all come with screw terminals so just invest in a nice wire stripper (shown below), it was the best $3 I have ever spent next to the HAPP nut wrench aka  "knuckle saver" for $2  



Please start a new thread in the projects section and post pics once you get things started.  Good luck and welcome to the board.

[Ginsu Victim]

I have that wire stripper. Good ol' Billy Mays QwikStrip or whatever. Works awesome.

[gryhnd]

I see a lot of hate here for the X-Arcade stuff, but here's my 2¢:

I have no issues with quality, and they stand behind their stuff unconditionally. The first cab I built uses their tankstick for the simple reason that back then, I did not have the time to research interfaces, source parts and wire up my own homebrew CP. I paid for the privilege of just plugging it in and having it work. Perfect for my needs back then.

Four years later with kids beating the crap out it, and four years of adults beating the crap out it too, and I have not had a SINGLE failure. Period.

My second cab (the cocktail), I had more experience, and I went hybrid for the CP: a refurb'd X-Arcade trackball which I "decased", used the t-ball, and recycled all the switches into buttons & interface from GGG. The trackball had an intermittent failure (ball would work in one axis only) several months later, and the X-arcade guys sent me a full set of replacement boards second day FedEx free. Now that's service.

If you're going full on repro or reconditioning a true cab, then I can certainly see the desire to have 100% arcade true joys, buttons and switches.  But for regular joes, X-Arcade stuff is a good option either as a drop in, or to gut for its parts and put into your own CP design. Don't dismiss it out of hand.

[MameMaster!]

My original cab featured an XArcade as I was afraid of the wiring issues. I was happy just to have gotten the machine working. But they are a good way to start.

If you do get one, then go to the next step and mod it. Replace the buttons, the joystick, perhaps decorate etc. This will make you more comfortable with how it all works.

You should then learn basic soldering skills.

At that point-- you should be ready to tackle a full blown panel on your own.

Now of course, many of the guys here went straight to creating their own and learned along the way. It all comes do to what you're comfortable with trying.

Even if you do go straight to a custom panel-- no one here will let you down if you get stuck.

Good luck! 

[mwong168]

Just to clears thing up, I don't speak from hate but from what I have observed in previous threads when there is an X-arcade involved.  I can also speak from experience as the gutted X-arcade I bought was originally mine which I bought from a canadian reseller, A-Power out in BC I believe, back in 2006.  It worked great out of the box and back then I wasn't aware an there was a community like BYOAC and I was just stoked that I was able to play SF2 in MAME properly with an arcade joystick instead of a keyboard.  Out of the box the unit worked great and was literally plug and plug to my PC.  I spent the first few months playing it with co-workers at work during lunch, after work or when the boss was out of town    since I left it under my desk.  The controls felt great and I was able to pull off all my SF2 combos just like I remember as a kid.  

After I bought this dual stick my next step was to find an arcade cabinet and I did find a mint original Midway MKII cabinet which I was planning to retro fit a PC in there using an ArcadeVGA+JPAC along with this X-Arcade.  I did end up having it all hooked up and working to test but unfortunately the cabinet was way to big to fit down my basement stairs to my gameroom.  So 2 years pass after I put this project on the backburner and then I become an expecting father so I reluctantly sold my MKII cabinet after having it sit in my living room this whole time and I was tired of listening to my girl complain about it being an eyesore    

So last year my friend picked up a SF2CE cabinet which I convinced him to convert to MAME because he thought it impressed me that he was able to swap out some JAMMA boards and changed it from SF2 to Shinobi or MK.  I told him what if I told you could switch between a couple hundred of arcade games and his first concern was altering the authenticity of his cabinet by having cut wires or drill holes.  Then I told him what my plan was with my MKII cabinet and saw MAME setup on my PC.  So now I found a donor for my X-Arcade, ArcadeVGA and JPAC which was collecting dust.  Now I go and dust off my dual stick and hook it up and sure enough it didn't work.  I contacted A-power but they said it was out of warranty through them but I could try to contact X-Gaming directly to purchase replacement parts.  I emailed a tech support guy from X-Gaming and he was able to determine it was the PCB that had died so without even asking me where or when I bought my dual stick or proof of purchase he sent me out a replacement PCB along with a new cable which now supported USB free of charge.  So they do stand behind their products 100% and now my friend was on his way to convert his cabinet.  Ever since he has never regretted it especially since last year I have learned how to setup nice front ends like Maximus Arcade and Hyperspin.

If you are not serious about building a dedicated cabinet but want the best arcade experience possible at home and don't have time, resources such as tools, big work space or skills to make something from scratch an X-Arcade would be a good way to go.

[gryhnd]

Just to clears thing up, I don't speak from hate but from what I have observed in previous threads when there is an X-arcade involved.

I wasn't casting disparaging remarks your way mwong (in fact you and I were posting at the same time so I hadn't even seen your reply), or to any one person. Just a general vibe about X-Arcade stuff I picked up.

Anyway, I'm a happy camper with their stuff. YMMV

[gryhnd]

Just to clears thing up, I don't speak from hate but from what I have observed in previous threads when there is an X-arcade involved.

I wasn't casting disparaging remarks your way mwong (in fact you and I were posting at the same time so I hadn't even seen your reply), or to any one person. Just a general vibe about X-Arcade stuff I picked up here.

Anyway, I'm a happy camper with their stuff. YMMV

(Edit to remove misplaced quoting)

[mwong168]

No worries, if you think X-arcade gets a lot of flak here go make a thread on SRK    You know wiring of control panels has now become a favorite part of all my builds and I look forward to it each time.  I am even tempted to go back and redo my existing showcase and bartop but my friend said I am 

[LeedsFan]

If it's your first project then you could always go the easier route of using an X-Arcade but with the option to upgrade the CP later on. Hell... you could even open the X-Arcade up and swap out the sticks and buttons for different kinds if you wanted to.

But I would echo what other people have said. It really isn't difficult to make your own. And that fact that you are on these very boards means you have all the info at your finger tips if you research.

I won't knock the X-Arcade though. I provides a door to enter the hobby with. When I first discovered Mame I bought one of their products just to get into playing the games. Then later on I found these boards, and the rest as they say... is history.

[ark_ader]

My original cab featured an XArcade as I was afraid of the wiring issues. I was happy just to have gotten the machine working. But they are a good way to start.

If you do get one, then go to the next step and mod it. Replace the buttons, the joystick, perhaps decorate etc. This will make you more comfortable with how it all works.

You should then learn basic soldering skills.

At that point-- you should be ready to tackle a full blown panel on your own.

Now of course, many of the guys here went straight to creating their own and learned along the way. It all comes do to what you're comfortable with trying.

Even if you do go straight to a custom panel-- no one here will let you down if you get stuck.

Good luck! 

+1

That is some fine advice there!

[DashRendar]

Yep, some people carry on a crusade against X-Arcade without having ever tried any of their products.  It gets crazy.   

X-Arcade is one option for you- it's NOT a bad way to go.  A lot of people are purists and prefer a DIY approach that is closer to what you would find on an actual arcade cabinet, rather than a pre-packaged control panel. 

Either way, it's YOUR arcade cab.  It doesn't have to satisfy the purists.

 

[Epyx]

Yep, some people carry on a crusade against X-Arcade without having ever tried any of their products.  It gets crazy.

 

Not a crusade...just advice.  You will notice I did state two items I would continue to buy off them...in fact I just ordered another WG D9800 from Xgaming and have ordered at least 3 of their trackballs to date.  The trackballs are almost identical right down to the mould, only the stamping at the bottom differs from Betson. The rollers are all interchangeable etc and its dead easy to configure as it is USB>

The keyboard encoder they use is not that great...sure its passable but it does have ghosting issues...and it is has issues with certain FEs. I am a registered owner of Maximus Arcade and there is a known bug with X Gaming Tanksticks and that FE that plagued me when I was an owner.

The buttons are passable but the microswitches they use a very clicky and cheap.  The joysticks are certainly ok but again the microswitches aren't that great.

Buying an X arcade to gut shouldn't be someones first priority...you are better off just buying the required quality parts and assembling your own, not a huge difference in cost but certainly in quality.

Is Joe Shmoe from the street going to know the difference when he is on your cab...highly unlikely...but you will.

[mwong168]

The joysticks are certainly ok but again the microswitches aren't that great.

If you check the images in my post above, the top one where I am wiring up the gutted X-Arcade has the original joysticks in them and they use leaf style microswitches where as my Wireless is an iL competition joystick using cherry microswitches.  My cousin isn't that hardcore into gaming and the X-arcade sticks were just fine so I just left them in there.  They are easy enough that even he could swap out for HAPP or iL later.

[Turnarcades]

Regardless of the joystick, switches and encoder quality issues that bother some but not others, X-Arcade units simply do not belong on a proper cabinet build; they are simply too odd-looking, awkward to mount and just not worth the salt if you're going to the trouble of making a cabinet yourself anyway.

Many customers have approached me asking for ways to integrate an X-Arcade and although I've offered many experienced suggestions for mounting methods and integration, my mock-up sketches ultimately demonstrate that it is a bad idea and they always go away and sell their units in favour of a proper, complete panel. The thing all these people have in common is that they are either apprehensive about wiring a panel  or are simply trying to save money and whilst it can be a cheaper way to go, it can end up more confusing if separated and as the controls ultimately 'make or break' a machine, it is not worth the out-of-place look and few quid saved to wmp out at that point.

The way I look at it is that an X-Arcade is like a perfect set of training wheels - before cash, experience and need means you should move onto a real bike.

[Jack Burton]

The hate for X-arcade buttons and joysticks comes from the fact that they are inferior to Il joysticks and buttons for fighting games.

X-arcade joysticks use a design based off of the Happ Super Joystick design.  It is certainly a useable, durable stick, it lacks the sensitivity and feel of an Il competition joystick.  The built X-arcade switches are just too stiff, and they joysticks corners are not easy enough to find.  IMO the joystick handle doesn't feel as good as the comp one either.  It's slightly shorter and stubbier.

I would say the X-arcade joystick is fine for casual gaming, but a comp stick is usually about $10, so even in a budget build I just can't see myself buying it.  For any game where I needed a true leaf-switch joystick or wanted one for period accuracy I would buy an original Happ Super.

The X-arcade buttons and switches are terrible.  The switches make too loud of a metal clanking noise when you push them in, and not the nice click of other micro switches.  They are too stiff for me, and I don't like the shape of the button.  It's a little too tall for my taste, and too concaved.  I like the lower profile of Il buttons, and the shallower concave. 

Of course my favorite button of all is the Il competition button, bu that's another story altogether. 

[Ginsu Victim]

X-Arcade has the original joysticks in them and they use leaf style microswitches

There's nothing "leaf" about them.

[Jack Burton]

Just to be clear, when I said leaf micro switches on the X-arcade I meant these kind:


I prefer the type of joystick with an actuator, like this:



Pictures are from tornadoterrys and retroblast.

[RandomCitizenX]

The more I think about it after reading this thread, the more I know I need to just build the entire thing from scartch. especially since I know that I want the push buttons to be illuminated (player 1 in red, and player two in blue). I will be starting my project thread soon, since I am hoping to start construction of the cab itself when I go on spring break (I'm a highschool teacher).

Can anyone make some recommendations for which vendors are around and available? I have already started pricing components from both Ultimarc and Groovy Gamer. Just not sure where else I should be looking.

[DashRendar]

If you're in the U.S., go through Divemaster's site (arcadeemulator.net) instead of Ultimarc to save on shipping.  Divemaster is the reseller on this side of the pond, and carries the same stuff.

GGG is always great.

Not sure, maybe Tornado Terry's sells these too?

[Ginsu Victim]

Not sure, maybe Tornado Terry's sells these too?

Nope. TT's is just a Happ vendor, plus he has a few of his own Happ mods.

[solid12345]

What I never understood is why the fighting purists hate X-arcade yet will praise optical 360 degree controls, excuse me but those aren't authentic either, what 1990s Street Fighter cabinet would have had such a technological advancement? Better control is NOT the same as "authentic"

[Epyx]

Better control is NOT the same as "authentic"

Agree completely. However, I do believe most people are after "better" control in general. There are exceptions like Ms. Pacman etc and restore jobs were people need/want to get as close to authentic as possible.

However, there are also a lot of people like me who care about "better" and the accompanying word "Gameplay". For us...those two are most important and unfortunately that is where the X Arcade lacks in comparison to some of the "better" parts out there as it does not deliver the same level of "gameplay".  I bought one...enjoyed it and still love the trackballs but the joysticks are really no comparison to something like the Competitions or JLWs I have used since.

[mwong168]

Can anyone make some recommendations for which vendors are around and available? I have already started pricing components from both Ultimarc and Groovy Gamer. Just not sure where else I should be looking.

I say get your list together and try to get as much stuff as you can from one vendor to help minimize shipping costs.  If you are interested in the "authentic" back in the day HAPP feel then go to lizardlick.com and or the iL competition stick from there.

Good luck with your build and if you have any questions about anything post it or send me a PM.

[RandomCitizenX]

Well here is the design for the cp, and the cp added to my cab model. Still trying to decide if I want to add a spinner, but am definitely leaning toward no. I also need to add in some admin buttons, but am still trying to figure out exactly what is needed.

[mwong168]

If you are going to add a spinner get the Turbo Twist 2 from GGG.  It is as easy to install as a HAPP button push button.

[Epyx]

If you are going to add a spinner get the Turbo Twist 2 from GGG.  It is as easy to install as a HAPP button push button.

Aye, it's a great spinner.

[Jack Burton]

What I never understood is why the fighting purists hate X-arcade yet will praise optical 360 degree controls, excuse me but those aren't authentic either, what 1990s Street Fighter cabinet would have had such a technological advancement? Better control is NOT the same as "authentic"

When it concerns authenticity it's very hard to say what is right for fighting games.  Keep in mind that most fighting gamers play a variety of titles, not just SF2.  Those games were often distributed in the form of kits, and would have used whatever joystick was in the cabinet the kit was installed into.  Those sticks were probably Happ Super, Il competition, Wico 8-way, or Wico 360. 

During the 90's arcade era Wico and Happ Perfect 360s were a popular type of joystick for operators and players to put in their cabs and customs.  And now it's very much the same for the competition stick.  I would say that the Il competition is found in more fighting game cabinets in america right now than any other.  You can say that the these two sticks are the official "tournament" sticks in America aside from Sanwa and Seimitsu sticks.

However, there is a little more going on here.   If you want to be REALLY accurate you would go back and find what joystick came on cabs in Japan during the early 90's.  The cabs that SFII came out on in Japan had Seimitsu LS-32's, and later Sanwa JLW sticks.  Then Virtua Fighter came out and everyone switched to the Sanwa JLF series.  That's the current standard and is exactly what you will find in Vewlix cabinet. 

[taylormadelv]

I started doing mame projects with a gutted x-arcade, then when I learned what I was doing, I bought a DIY x-arcade kit for another project. I have used ipacs and GPwiz's as well. I actually LIKE the buttons but the joysticks are inferior to Happs competition, I don't use the x-arcade joysticks anymore. It comes basically pre-configured and all your wires precrimped and molex connectors for the pcb so almost no stripping/crimping is involved when I work with x-arcade stuff.
I have noticed better preformance when using x-arcades over PS2 vs USB but this is just a personal opinion.
The x-arcade will NOT work with old Macs out of the box, you need a special, obsolete and expensive adaptor.
The x-arcade does NOT have directional keys mapped out of the box. You will have to configue a front end to use the joystick to go up and down game lists.
The x-arcade does NOT have "shift" keys but in reality, "shift keys" can just be programmed directly into mame, it's a pain but all the shift functions can be duplicated without an actual "shift" key.
They ship from PA USA and that means fast shipping for me and no international fees showing up on my CC. Good customer service, if you have a real issue, they will address it and really try to help.