New Product: CLASSX™ Pushbuttons - Electric ICE 2 - GroovyGameGear.com

[RandyT]

The True Leaf for +$1 is very interesting & tempting...
Likely to be very popular if you get the buttons in solid colors.

Unfortunately, there will be no cost advantage to the solid colors.  I was hoping to have them molded in the more standard opaque materials (nylon) and bring the cost down a little, but the press time doesn't change, so not much advantage to the less durable materials.

That means I am going to have to do some custom colors (which will take time, unfortunately).  I plan to do some opaque Black ones immediately from the same material.  Hard to go wrong with that one, and it's commonly used.  The others may take a while longer, and there probably won't be a huge variety right off the bat considering the initial run costs.  I'm guessing Red, Black and Blue in the opaques will be first, and less common colors will follow at some time.

I did get the new translucent samples for NovaGems in today and they are sharp.  They are molded from the very same colors used in pinball inserts and earlier leaf style buttons.  A deeper and richer color than the current crop of translucents out there.  They look incredible when lit.

I'll try to get some preview shots up here shortly.

RandyT

[Epyx]

I did get the new translucent samples for NovaGems in today and they are sharp.  They are molded from the very same colors used in pinball inserts and earlier leaf style buttons.  A deeper and richer color than the current crop of translucents out there.  They look incredible when lit.

Does this include the new Green? Just curious as you had mentioned "You would know more when the samples arrived" on the green situation?

[RandyT]

Does this include the new Green? Just curious as you had mentioned "You would know more when the samples arrived" on the green situation?

Yes, there is no comparison.  When lit, the green is very vibrant and attractive.  Not "muddy" and uneven like the IL translucent green buttons are.

RandyT

[Epyx]

Yes, there is no comparison.  When lit, the green is very vibrant and attractive.  Not "muddy" and uneven like the IL translucent green buttons are.

/drool

Then you know where my next play money is going...waiting patiently for these to "appear" on the store

[RandyT]

Here's the NovaGem 2™ preview I promised:

They are photographed on a light table of sorts to show the colors better.  Obviously things get much brighter with NovaGem LED units inside  .

RandyT

[Epyx]

Wow I see what you mean..a lot more of a grass as opposed to "swamp" green 

Fantastic...can't wait till I see "Sold Out" replaced by "In Stock"

Obviously the microswitch holder is different but I am assuming the hole at the bottom like the Novagem 1 buttons will still be 7/32" and we can slot our existing LEDs from the old Novagems into these?

[RandyT]

Wow I see what you mean..a lot more of a grass as opposed to "swamp" green  

Not only that, but the material is "cleaner" so the vivid green light of the LED bounces around inside of the plastic, instead if being virtually blocked, as is the case with the IL button.

Obviously the microswitch holder is different but I am assuming the hole at the bottom like the Novagem 1 buttons will still be 7/32" and we can slot our existing LEDs from the old Novagems into these?

These accommodate the same PCB that the previous version used.

RandyT

[shateredsoul]

So I must have missed the info somewhere.. but will the lights be more user friendly for newbs like me? Also, where will the lights be hooked up to be lit?

I'm not familiar with how it's normally done, but would be interested if there were an easier way.

[daywane]

does someone know a good post explaining the 3 different switches (cons vs benefits?)

can I really tell the difference when playing a game like say... xmen vs street fighter?

leafs are from OLD school games. Pac Man , Froger, ect. ect ect....
What older people like me (turn 46 march 18Th) remember to be the right fell.

I can not stand the clickity clickity from switches

as far as game play? No real difference really. Leafs can be adjusted to be more sensitive.

I have never tried a micro switch

[shateredsoul]

that's funny.. because I grew up with the clickity click sound. So I can't imagine it not being there.

[RandyT]

as far as game play? No real difference really. Leafs can be adjusted to be more sensitive.

Actually, big difference, depending on the game.

Laying down a line of 4 shots in Asteroids or covering a screen in fire on a game like Defender or Stargate is much easier with a leaf switch than a traditional microswitch.  GGG offers several micros which have narrowed the gap considerably, but comparing a leaf to a normal micro in gameplay will show a major advantage going to the leaf with a number of titles, especially those where rapid succession firing is important.

RandyT

[Rossman]

My question was never answered! 

[shateredsoul]

one of my questions was answered the other one was about how you light these buttons up... i must be asking an obvious question or something

[ammitz]

one of my questions was answered the other one was about how you light these buttons up... i must be asking an obvious question or something

I don't know it either, but I think you can find out by reading in the wiki:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Lighting

[CheffoJeffo]

Here's the NovaGem 2™ preview I promised:

I normally don't picture-quote, but DAMN! those look beautiful and I can use leafs with them ? 

I've been scrounging, trying to come up with enough colour-matched Wico translucents for my Williams Multi, but always seem to come up short. These look to be the answer to my prayers.

 

[Ginsu Victim]

These are the perfect solution for leafs in a wood control panel.

[Epyx]

These are the perfect solution for leafs in a wood control panel.

Agreed, can't wait to try them.

[shateredsoul]

one of my questions was answered the other one was about how you light these buttons up... i must be asking an obvious question or something

I don't know it either, but I think you can find out by reading in the wiki:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Lighting

do you think the wiki info still applies to these buttons? They seem to do everything differently than the standard pushbutton.. I was just wondering if they sold a light module to go along with the button (or a set of lights from their site that were made specifically for use with these buttons).

[shateredsoul]

Ok this is what I found

this thread http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=48816.0

which is about the rgb drive that you can buy here http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=240

Can someone explain the options to me? So let's say I have nothing.. no button, no light, and no wires What do I need? I assume I need the 5.20 option (which includes the electric ice pushbutton, installed rgb led, resistor, board, and conductor cable). Do I connect the conductor cable to my pcs usb? or do I need to connect each button to some other type of board and then to usb?

Bare Board Only
Installed RGB LED and Resistors (+$2.20)   (+0.01 lbs)
Installed RGB LED, Resistors and 24" 4-conductor cable (+$2.66)   (+0.02 lbs)
RGB Electric ICE™ Pushbutton w/ above. (+$5.20)   (+0.06 lbs)
RGB LED and Resistors ONLY! No Board or Wires. (+$0.20)


If I wanted to light up all my p1 an p2 buttons that would be 14 buttons X 5.20 , damn 70 bucks... and I have 8 admin buttons.. hmm gotta start saving =)

[Epyx]

The buttons from above *are* from RandyT (www.groovygamegear.com)

If you go to his website you will see the first generation of these buttons all come optional with switches and lighting choice (Novagem).

So if you have nothing...you need the following:

Using Novagems as an example:

-LED-Wiz (Controller that will control the LED on/off etc)
-LED Blinky (Software to control what the LED lights do...intensity/duration/speech sync etc) (Don't need it but its got a ton of cool options).
-Novagem Button with a microswitch (pick one of the options) *AND* pick a colour.  The button will come with the PCB LED and resistors etc all mounted and generous length wires...you just need to feed it Vs and plug the ground into the LED WIZ ports
- A Keyboard controller card (either Randys single or dual purpose or competitor like IPAC) to control the buttons own on/off (Pushed not pushed)

[shateredsoul]

Isn't the novagem button different than the electric ice button?

Do electric ice buttons have an option to come with the novagem?

[planetjay]

Here's the NovaGem 2™ preview I promised:

They are photographed on a light table of sorts to show the colors better.  Obviously things get much brighter with NovaGem LED units inside  .

RandyT

That bottom looks like it would come off easy. I'm gonna have to order some and beat the hell out of them to test this theory... So my big question is, are the translucents UV reactive like the Williams buttons were. I still have a few dozen of the originals and they really light up under a black light (UV). I've been playing with the idea of building a CP that uses them with UV LEDs back lighting them. Of course I've been playing with that idea for over 10 years and probably have mentioned it here before. Please let me know assuming you have a black light around somewhere. Based on the Satan's Hollow handle pics on your site, I BET YOU DO! 

Also are you going to sell those leaf switches separately? I probably need a few dozen if they are same size as the 20 - 30 year old ones were.

[studmuff]

By the way, does anyone know how long it takes for GGG.com to ship out orders?  Placed order on Monday and it still says processing.  I was hoping at getting going this weekend but looks like I'll have to put that on hold.  Next week is the MGC.

[Level42]

So what's your upgrade program Randy ?  

I mean, I can't leave the IE 1 button with micro-leaf in my Centipede anymore when there's true leafs....

Great work, it's great to see an alternative for the old leaf buttons.

But, being critical as always, I have some questions:

1) The leafs are tilted/angled towards the button. Won't this result in more resistance from the leaf ? (ie. more force (compared to a horizontal regular leaf-switch/button set-up)
2) the used leafs look like they are of the small(er) kind. I've tried similar leafs that fit on a regular micro-switch button (think they came from Ponyboy). They were giving too much resistance IMHO, I think it was due to the smaller size. How about these leafs ?

[Ginsu Victim]

That bottom looks like it would come off easy. I'm gonna have to order some and beat the hell out of them to test this theory...

Come on, you really think he would release them if they just fell apart once you installed them?

[planetjay]

No. BUT, I've worked on Jamma Machines back in 2000 that the switches did fall off of easy. Those are held on by tension and after banging on them like you know we will, I think they'll work loose and fall off. And over time they'll get worse. It's an opinion. By no means a fact. Still it would not stop me from buying them and either gluing or otherwise modding them into submission. 

[RandyT]

By the way, does anyone know how long it takes for GGG.com to ship out orders?  Placed order on Monday and it still says processing.

We had to get a bunch of RGB-Drives into the pipeline for all of the orders that came in for these.  We also had back orders for a few hundred that took precedence over new orders.  New orders should start shipping tomorrow.

That bottom looks like it would come off easy. I'm gonna have to order some and beat the hell out of them to test this theory...

Backseat engineers      All motion is limited at the plunger, as it should be.   You would need to hit them with a 10lb sledge (thus destroying everything) to be able to exert any force at all on any of the switches.  They aren't going to come off by themselves, or even through rough use.

Please let me know assuming you have a black light around somewhere. Based on the Satan's Hollow handle pics on your site, I BET YOU DO! 

Yep.  And I was surprised to find that orange one actually does glow pretty well under UV.  The other colors do not.  One thing I was shooting for with the Electric ICE version was UV.  These glow a very bright white under UV, which is by design.  The orange one is a bonus

Also are you going to sell those leaf switches separately? I probably need a few dozen if they are same size as the 20 - 30 year old ones were.

Probably not.  We are stocking these only as options for these buttons.  They won't be drop in replacements for the old ones.

1) The leafs are tilted/angled towards the button. Won't this result in more resistance from the leaf ? (ie. more force (compared to a horizontal regular leaf-switch/button set-up)

No.  Resistance here is dictated by where along the length of the blade the contact is made with the plunger, as well as the blade thickness.  The closer to the end of the leaf, the less resistance there is.  Angle makes little difference. 

2) the used leafs look like they are of the small(er) kind. I've tried similar leafs that fit on a regular micro-switch button (think they came from Ponyboy). They were giving too much resistance IMHO, I think it was due to the smaller size. How about these leafs ?

I think it depends on what you expect with regard to how the button operates.  As you know, leaf switches can be tweaked (bent) to whatever configuration a player is most comfortable with.  These are no exception;

You can move the contact points so they connect with almost no pressure on plunger, but doing so will give firm resistance directly afterward, as you are then flexing 2 pieces of metal instead of one. 

On the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, you can tweak the blades so that there is very little space between the contact points, but so far away from the plunger that nothing touches until you are very near the bottom of the plunger travel.  This would give very light resistance, as only the internal spring would come into play until it hit the blades.  But it might also be a bit counter intuitive, as most wouldn't expect to have to depress the button all of the way down before actuation of the switch occurs.

The design intent of these, without adjustment, is to have the top blade in contact with the plunger always, with the connection between the points being made about 3/4 of the travel.  One of the biggest things that caused leaf switches to go out of whack in past designs was over bending.  This design limits the travel, so this shouldn't be an issue.

One final comment about the leaf switches is that these are an "economy" switch.  Anyone who has shopped around knows that really nice leaf switches have a hefty price tag (most costing more than what we are charging for both the button and the switch together).  I do have a source for 1980's quality switches, but indicators are that they also carry a high price tag (I asked the manufacturer 5 times for ballpark pricing and he never replied to the question  ).  I came to the conclusion that most won't be willing to spend that much for a switch and would be happy with something that was reasonable in both cost and performance.  Was I correct?  (seriously, looking for input )

RandyT

[Nacimroc]

I'm wondering how the LED module is seated ? Is it similar to a bayonet that slots in and snaps like the ultralux or does it just sit there! I'm holding out to get these (just for the leafs), but just want to make sure the LED stay put once they are banged thousands of times ?

[studmuff]

By the way, does anyone know how long it takes for GGG.com to ship out orders?  Placed order on Monday and it still says processing.

We had to get a bunch of RGB-Drives into the pipeline for all of the orders that came in for these.  We also had back orders for a few hundred that took precedence over new orders.  New orders should start shipping tomorrow.

RandyT

Thanks for clarifying Randy

[RandyT]

I'm holding out to get these (just for the leafs), but just want to make sure the LED stay put once they are banged thousands of times ?

They are locked into place by the switch holder.  It's a simple methodology, but very effective.  They won't fall out.

RandyT

[Blackus]

Hi

I've got some questions about ice push buttons.

My idea is to plug 12 pushbuttons (led RGB, so they can change colour depending on the emulator, I'm borrowing this idea from some picture I've seen).

It's not clear to me how to build the scheme, and, moreover, what to buy!

Coming to the point: I'm trying to combine 12 buttons + trackball ice (colour changing).
Hence, I'm supposed to buy:

- GroovyMicro™ Premium MicroSwitch
with the option:
RGB-Drive w/ 24" 4-conductor cable (+$3.75)   (+0.13 lbs)
(including the board with led RGB plus cable).

Then, I should buy also this:
LED-Wiz 32 port USB Lighting and Output Controller
is it true that, if each led RGB needs 3 contacts, then (considering 12 pushbutton + trackball) I need 3x13=39 output, i.e. At least 3 LED Controllers???

[RandyT]

Hi

I've got some questions about ice push buttons.

My idea is to plug 12 pushbuttons (led RGB, so they can change colour depending on the emulator, I'm borrowing this idea from some picture I've seen).

It's not clear to me how to build the scheme, and, moreover, what to buy!

Coming to the point: I'm trying to combine 12 buttons + trackball ice (colour changing).
Hence, I'm supposed to buy:

- GroovyMicro™ Premium MicroSwitch
with the option:
RGB-Drive w/ 24" 4-conductor cable (+$3.75)   (+0.13 lbs)
(including the board with led RGB plus cable).

Then, I should buy also this:
LED-Wiz 32 port USB Lighting and Output Controller
is it true that, if each led RGB needs 3 contacts, then (considering 12 pushbutton + trackball) I need 3x13=39 output, i.e. At least 3 LED Controllers???

You would only need two LED-Wiz controllers (provides 64 outputs), which would give quite a few left over.  Maybe in this situation an LED-Wiz Dev 1 and an LED-Wiz+GP Dev 2 would be a good choice.  This would give you 48 ouputs and 16 inputs to do with what you will.

RandyT

[Blackus]

Hi

I've got some questions about ice push buttons.

My idea is to plug 12 pushbuttons (led RGB, so they can change colour depending on the emulator, I'm borrowing this idea from some picture I've seen).

It's not clear to me how to build the scheme, and, moreover, what to buy!

Coming to the point: I'm trying to combine 12 buttons + trackball ice (colour changing).
Hence, I'm supposed to buy:

- GroovyMicro™ Premium MicroSwitch
with the option:
RGB-Drive w/ 24" 4-conductor cable (+$3.75)   (+0.13 lbs)
(including the board with led RGB plus cable).

Then, I should buy also this:
LED-Wiz 32 port USB Lighting and Output Controller
is it true that, if each led RGB needs 3 contacts, then (considering 12 pushbutton + trackball) I need 3x13=39 output, i.e. At least 3 LED Controllers???

You would only need two LED-Wiz controllers (provides 64 outputs), which would give quite a few left over.  Maybe in this situation an LED-Wiz Dev 1 and an LED-Wiz+GP Dev 2 would be a good choice.  This would give you 48 ouputs and 16 inputs to do with what you will.

RandyT

hmm i don't have understood the inputs.. To what they serve those?
But the device number worth also for other peripheral ones? (ES. In this case if I buy also the trackball I will have to choose device n°3;  with the spinner n°4 ecc... )

[Level42]

Thanks for your clear explanation Randy. I'd probably would like the "no compromise" option. The reason is that f.i. with the Centipede, I only need one button. So the impact on a high price for the leaf switch is much less then when you do a zillion button MAME CP.

[RandyT]

Thanks for your clear explanation Randy. I'd probably would like the "no compromise" option. The reason is that f.i. with the Centipede, I only need one button. So the impact on a high price for the leaf switch is much less then when you do a zillion button MAME CP.

I think you should give these a try, and tweak them a little one way or the other, depending on your preference.  I put these through their paces once more last night, and they do extremely well.  I actually did better in a number of games than I was able to in the past.  And they look great on a panel, IMHO.

You can always find one of the other switches from another source if it suits you better.  The switches from a WICO joystick should fit them, but no guarantees.

RandyT

[Dazz]

How much until ordering opens for these?

[Blackus]

RandyT i don't have understood the inputs.. To what they serve those?
But the device number worth also for other peripheral ones? (ES. In this case if I buy also the trackball I will have to choose device n°3;  with the spinner n°4 ecc... )

[redhorse]

RandyT i don't have understood the inputs.. To what they serve those?

I guess you can use the inputs to connect push buttons. That's what it says on the groovygamegear site: "16 High-Performance Gamepad Inputs".
It is also described in the PDF here: http://groovygamegear.com/PDF/LEDWIZ+GP_INSTALL_rev2.pdf

[Blackus]

but if i want use a other controller for the pushbutton? (Example the JammASD)

[studmuff]

if your using another control for keyboard input then you only need the ledwiz to control the leds.