General questions about MRotate

[DaOld Man]

This section will be for general information questions about MRotate. What you need, how to set it up, how it works, etc.

[sjbaines]

This post moved to 'links' section.

[GameTech]

I'm just now starting to build another cabinet.. and I would LOVE to rotate the screen.  I'm assuming that all projects on here, use the printers parallel port ?  Has anyone used the serial port on ta PC yet?  or USB?   I have a bartop cabinet with a 10.5" LCD, and would love to have this thing rotate per game selection.  Also, is this project only related to the MALA frontend? 

Thanks for help.  Neat ideas here.  Love it

 

[DaOld Man]

I have not experimented with usb or serial, not sure if anyone else has.
I did purchase a "teensy" usb breakout board. http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/
But I havent had much chance to play around with it yet.
Using the printer port is extremely simple, and MRotate is currently only compatible with it, at least until I can get some time to figure out how to program with the teensy board.
If anyone on here has done a rotating project using serial or usb, I would much appreciate seeing it, and posting a link to the project here would be great.

Edit:
Mrotate can work with any front end that can send it a command line with an argument.
For example, you can send it a command from the CMD window such as: C:\mrotate\mrotate 0
Loadman helped me build a plug in that does that from mala. I think others on here have experimented with other front ends. I was thinking of making one for GLaunch, but never got around to it.
Note: MRotate is only compatible with Windows. It has been tested on XP 32 bit, Vista 32 bit, and I have one user set it up on Win7 64 bit, but it takes a little extra work to make it happen on 64 bit system, but it can be done.

[drventure]

My plan is to add monitor rotation, though I plan to do it with a pulley system (probably old grandfather clock pulleys and brass wire, but I'm not sure yet).

I'd have prefered gears, but I can't seem to find a decent source.

MRotate might enter into the equation at some point. Any idea if it'll work with one of those "USB to Serial port" dongles?

[DaOld Man]

My plan is to add monitor rotation, though I plan to do it with a pulley system (probably old grandfather clock pulleys and brass wire, but I'm not sure yet).

I'd have prefered gears, but I can't seem to find a decent source.

MRotate might enter into the equation at some point. Any idea if it'll work with one of those "USB to Serial port" dongles?

Sounds interesting.
MRotate uses inpout32.dll to interface the printer port. The first inpout32 did not work with usb dongles, but I have read somewhere that the latest version will, but I have yet to verify that.
I will do some research and get back with you.

[DaOld Man]

Here is a link with some information I put together.
It has info about MRotate2, but if you scroll on down you will find some diagrams I threw together of how to hook up your rotating devices (drives, switches, degauss relays, etc) to the printer port.
I am thinking about throwing together some better drawings and posting them in this forum, if there's enough interest.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=94350.0

[shadwolf]

I am thinking about throwing together some better drawings and posting them in this forum, if there's enough interest.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=94350.0

Oh, there's enough interest ;-)

I've been a lurker on the arcade control forums for a while. I have a Dynamo cab I'm working on right now and fully intend to implement a rotating monitor, I'm just not sure where to start with the rotation mechanism. I currently have two identical 19" Viewsonic CRT's (one of which is in my cabinet), and am torn between implementing a rotating mechanism using one of these heavier CRT's, or picking up a Dell 1908FP. I believe that model was the last 4x3 19" LCD that Dell produces, and it has a 5ms response so I think it would be ideal to use as far as LCD's go. The only problem with it is that the native resolution is 1280x1024 which is higher than I care to run. Hmm... decisions, decisions...

I've seen this article regarding a rotation mech: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Weisshaupt%27s_LCD_Mechanism
Are there any other articles, or other suggestions regarding the mechanical solution/motor?

Thanks for any input you can provide. I saw version 3 was released yesterday, I'm anxious to get something going so I can give it a shot.

[DaOld Man]

I've seen this article regarding a rotation mech: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Weisshaupt%27s_LCD_Mechanism
Are there any other articles, or other suggestions regarding the mechanical solution/motor?

Thanks for any input you can provide. I saw version 3 was released yesterday, I'm anxious to get something going so I can give it a shot.

Thanks Shadwolf. Rotating monitors are a lot of work, but I really do think they are worth it, as well as most others who have taken the plunge.
A CRT, due to size and weight, takes a bit more to rotate, but it's not impossible.
My first rotating monitor was a crt. (Check out the "Post your rotating monitor project" in this forum).
Weisshaupt did an excellent job, and I think he was the first to introduce the hobby "secret motor", and several people have copied his method for the LCD.
There are others on here who have made CRT projects, just search this site.
A couple that come to mind are CornChip and KOZ319.
Which every monitor you decide to use, myself and others on here will be glad to help any way we can.
Good luck, and keep us posted!

[shadwolf]

I've seen this article regarding a rotation mech: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Weisshaupt%27s_LCD_Mechanism
Are there any other articles, or other suggestions regarding the mechanical solution/motor?

Thanks for any input you can provide. I saw version 3 was released yesterday, I'm anxious to get something going so I can give it a shot.

Thanks Shadwolf. Rotating monitors are a lot of work, but I really do think they are worth it, as well as most others who have taken the plunge.
A CRT, due to size and weight, takes a bit more to rotate, but it's not impossible.
My first rotating monitor was a crt. (Check out the "Post your rotating monitor project" in this forum).
Weisshaupt did an excellent job, and I think he was the first to introduce the hobby "secret motor", and several people have copied his method for the LCD.
There are others on here who have made CRT projects, just search this site.
A couple that come to mind are CornChip and KOZ319.
Which every monitor you decide to use, myself and others on here will be glad to help any way we can.
Good luck, and keep us posted!

Well, I've taken the plunge. I just finished placed an order for the stuff Weisshaupt suggested through Solarbiotics, and earlier in the weekend bought a better soldering iron from Radio Shack (the digital model) and swung by Lowe's and picked up the 6" Lazy Susan they carry. The 12" model they had seemed to be junk - I couldn't even tell that model had bearings and it moved very roughly, whereas the 6" model moves way smoother and the bearings are clearly visible. Enough to get me started...

I decided to go with a Dell 19" 4x3 LCD just to make things easier. Don't have one yet, but my wife told me she'd get one for me for my birthday here in a couple of weeks.

I'll be waiting on the monitor now. I should have some time to devote to it (and everything will have arrived) here in a few weeks, so I'll be back in touch then once I figure out how I'm going to do the rotation assembly.

[DaOld Man]

MRotate might enter into the equation at some point. Any idea if it'll work with one of those "USB to Serial port" dongles?

Quick update: Logix4u finally got back with me about using inpout32.dll on a usb to printer port dongle and it will not work.
I do know however, that it will work with one of those cheap PCI printer port cards.

I am currently studying the "teensy" usb breakout board to see if I can come up with a version of mrotate for it.
Will post when I make any lead-way.

[DaOld Man]

Well, I've taken the plunge. ........

Sounds good! Cant wait to see your work. You may want to start a thread over in Project Announcements, because more people will probably see it there.
Feel free to ask for any help, if you need to.

[darthpaul]

I have a question, is there anyway to add sound while the monitor is rotating?

[DaOld Man]

I have a question, is there anyway to add sound while the monitor is rotating?

In the current versions of MRotate, you cannot play sounds...
However, I may be able to add that to MRotate3, let me think on it.
What type of sound do you want to play? wav? midi?
(mp3 may be harder, but it is probably doable.)

[darthpaul]

If wav is easiest then make it wav, since I have a Star Wars themed cabinet, I thought it would be cool to have the Star Destroyer's emergency alarm sound as the monitor rotates.

[DaOld Man]

If wav is easiest then make it wav, since I have a Star Wars themed cabinet, I thought it would be cool to have the Star Destroyer's emergency alarm sound as the monitor rotates.

Working on it. I will let you beta test it when Im done.

[slug54]

Hello,
I am looking to rotate a 20" LCD monitor on a lazy susan berring  and I would like to turn it using a belt and pulleys attached to the motor and rotation assembly.

I would like some suggestions on what motor and motor driver board to use.
Also is there something wrong with belt drive? Seems most people use friction drive so I just wondered.

Thanks

[DaOld Man]

I dont think there is any wrong way to do this. As long as it works, and there are no fire hazards or dangers to people (keep moving parts covered so little hands cant get to them.)
I have seen a few others using belts and pulleys.
As far as the motor, if you want to turn the monitor fast, then use a big motor with only one belt, if you want to use a smaller, less powerful motor, but dont care about how long it takes to turn the monitor, then you can use more than one belt, each small pulley connected to a larger pulley by a belt increases the power of the motor, but decreases the speed.
I would suggest you look into a automobile windshield wiper motor. They have a gearbox built on them, so the output is not real fast, but it has quiet a bit of torque. They are also fairly cheap and easy to find on ebay or at a junk yard.
As for the drive, I made my own out of a few transistors. Its not very hard and I have complete details in my first rotating project. You can also use relays (but cant control speed), and you can buy drives ready to hook up and use.
I will try to get together some links when I get back home and post them here. (Im currently on a business trip).
Good luck with your project and feel free to ask for any help.

[Le Chuck]

Hello,
I am looking to rotate a 20" LCD monitor on a lazy susan berring  and I would like to turn it using a belt and pulleys attached to the motor and rotation assembly.

I would like some suggestions on what motor and motor driver board to use.
Also is there something wrong with belt drive? Seems most people use friction drive so I just wondered.

Thanks

slug54, you should read through this rotation thread as well.  There is a lot of good information about bearing types including lazy susans, and different drive solutions. 

I suggest getting a bearing that isn't a thrust bearing because they have a low tolerance for a verticle application.  As for the drive you can a great example of the friction wheel/windshield wiper drive on DarthPaul's automated cabinet build.  There are pros and cons to all the methods and you'll see the friction wheel a lot because it's low cost, stable, and fairly simple to control.

[DaOld Man]

First link, from one of the masters himself, Cornchip:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=62577.0

Cornchip used chains and sprockets but pulleys and belts should be along the same lines.
Hats off to Cornchip! A pioneer in this rotating business.

Another great project from another pioneer:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=59170.0

csa3d did a most excellent job of rotating his LCD with friction. Also he did an intense write up on the printer port, which I was too lazy to do.

Another master! KOZ319 inspired me to do my first project.
He also introduces the home made H drive, capable of driving the big motors, such as a windshield wiper.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72638.0

And the project that looks good enough to take the show:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0
Weisshaupts The Ghost In The Machine.

I know there are more, and I will see if I can find them later.

The biggest drawback to the way the masters did it is the printer port. Even though a cheap PCI printer port card works, most people tend to shy away from it.
I started designing a special MRotateUSB, which uses a usb interface, just need to get off my lazy asbestos and finish it up.

Whatever you decide to do, rest assured you will have plenty of folks here more than willing to help.
And if you come up with a new way to do it, please share it.
I would like to see a contest to see who can do the rotating monitor jig the cheapest and simplest way.
Cheap= using readily available parts that cost nothing or very near to it.
Simple= easy to set up and easy to use.

Special challenge: use AC motor.

[slug54]

Thanks guys,
great info. I think I will try to find a windshield wiper motor to use.
Le Chuck I found a lot of great info in that thread and some links to some nice part suppliers I have allready purchased my berring from rockler it is a good quality berring and I am using it in a pacman cab where the monitor is nearly facing up so it will be used in a nearly normal orientation so I think it will be ok.

DaOld Man I am also wanting to add a small servo motor to switch my Magstick plus joystick automatically from 4 way to 8 way
Will your circuit support controlling 2 motors or would I need 2 circuits or is there another controller that would be better suited for this.

-Slug

[DaOld Man]

....
DaOld Man I am also wanting to add a small servo motor to switch my Magstick plus joystick automatically from 4 way to 8 way
Will your circuit support controlling 2 motors or would I need 2 circuits or is there another controller that would be better suited for this.

-Slug

The servo motor requires a special drive. This link will give you more info:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=113249.0

DarthPaul has done some amazing work in the automation category.

[darthpaul]

I used the friction method and a windshield wiper motor for two reason, first; since this was the first time for me doing something like this, the friction method seemed to be the most widely used method at the time and second; I am rotating a 21" CRT which is pretty heavy, so friction seemed to be the easiest to do and the wiper motor is very powerful. I got my Wiper Motor here http://monsterguts.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4. Since you are using an LCD Monitor, your options for rotation are much greater because of it's lighter weight, you could even try using nylon gears which is what I'm using to rotate my control panels. Good luck on the servos, the hardest part will be fabricating the linkage, checkout my instructions in the link DaOld Man gave you and also Le Chucks and can't do wrong.
 

[slug54]

wow nice work Darth,
I ordered a servo and controller for my 4/8way switch.
any chance that a servo motor would have enough power to rotate my LCD monitor on the lazy susan?
Looks pretty easy to do and I like that you can put the commands in a batch file.

[darthpaul]

Funny you should ask that, there is a discussion going on here http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118552.40 and it looks like Le Chuck has that very same idea. I think a servo could but it might be a little expensive and you would need to make sure that monitor rotated nice and smooth with as little friction as possible. In order to automate rotation using MRotate, DaOld Man would have to modify it to allow you to add commands for horizontal and vertical rotation. I'm sure he would give you a hand with that if you decide to go the servo route.

[DaOld Man]

I experimented with some steppers, but I could not find a cheap one that was strong enough to turn the 19" LCD monitor.
I did find one that came very close, but it would internally slip and loose counts, which meant the monitor would not stop correctly and would incrementally get farther off on each rotation.
I used the printer port and a homemade drive to fire the motor, and I wrote a MRotate version just for that purpose.

We use servos at work to move grinding machines in very precise moves (think CNC), plus OND has already used one on his monitor setup, but I gave up because the big servos are very expensive, and the drives for them can be too.
But I am intrigued by being able to adjust the stopping points, and the slow down points, and the speed all from the software.
Anyway, if someone comes up with a cheap way to do it, Im in! (Using servo or stepper).

(Im trying to find a pic of my test stepper setup, but I cant find any, they may have got lost when my hard drive crashed last year. I will have to see if I made a backup.)
Here are some cheap steppers:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/400/Motors/1.html

They dont have the one I used anymore, but it had a gearbox that increased the torque quite a bit, and it still wasnt enough to correctly turn the monitor every time. (Steppers are prone to internal slippage under heavy loads.)

Edit: trying to create a short link to the allelectronics stepper motor category is not working. Sorry about posting the long link. Click on the link, then click on stepper motors on the website.

[DaOld Man]

Ok, finally found time to search through my backups and here is the last experiment with a stepper motor:

I really thought this was going to work, but the 19" LCD was just too side heavy.

[DaOld Man]

Here are some steppers I tried.
In first pic, the one on the left is the one I thought would be the keeper, it has a gearbox which increases the torque a lot.

Second pic was the wiring diagram. The transistors supplied the pulses to the stepper. I used opto-isolators to isolate the computer from the high current stuff. Cant remember why I put "dont use" on it..

Third pic is the front end of the rig, with the monitor removed.
I really liked the way the stepper worked, if it was just powerful enough.  I had a special Mrotate written that would allow me to set up slow down and stopping points. Of course the speed can be controlled by controlling how fast the pulses to the motor are, or how close together they are.
This is what inspired me to do a counter on a regular DC motor, and DarthPaul took that idea and made it work with his rotating panel. (Thanks Paul!)

[DaOld Man]

Now I remember why I put "dont use" on that last schematic.
The stepper I was wanting to use had a parking brake on it. Only problem was that it was 24 VDC, so I made some changes to more safely handle it with the printer port interface.
This is the schematic I went with.
Notice I also implemented a SSR switched receptacle for the monitor, I posted a thread about that somewhere on here.


Edit: Found the thread to the ssr receptacle:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=104682.0

[darthpaul]

 

[ArcadeSeeker962]

I checked out this thread, but I'm not that skilled in electric soldering and computer programming, so I think I'll take the other route for my Joysticks on the control panel. Thank you for the suggestion though, DaOld Man. Even though my creation won't be on par with your preferences, I guarantee you that won't be disappointed once my arcade cabinet is complete.  

[DaOld Man]

I checked out this thread, but I'm not that skilled in electric soldering and computer programming, so I think I'll take the other route for my Joysticks on the control panel. Thank you for the suggestion though, DaOld Man. Even though my creation won't be on par with your preferences, I guarantee you that won't be disappointed once my arcade cabinet is complete.  

OK dude.. I know that I will not be disappointed in your cab at all.
Good luck with your project and come on back when you decide you are ready to do a little automation work. 

[ArcadeSeeker962]

Thank you. When I'm ready to automate my Joystick controller, I'll be glad to come back to this thread. I'm planning on signing up to a Tech School in my area to learn how to solder, so that will help out as well. I'll also check to see if they have courses for computer programming.

[mapsking]

Hello everyone, not sure if this is in the right spot, but I'm getting ready to do the actual building from scratch of my first arcade cabinet.  Without getting into too much detail, my situation is very different from most, and I am not very experienced here as far as practicality goes, but I'm really interested in having a rotating monitor.  What is different is that I'm building the cabinet from scratch, will be a big 4 player one, and am using a 47" 16:9 LCD as the monitor.  I do have an official mounting bracket, and since I'm going to design the cabinet around what I want, modifications regarding size, and space limitations are not as stringent.  MY questions are basically, would it be feasible (I know everyone says anything is possible) to have a rotating monitor that size?  In my experience, playing from the side does not diminish viewing angle, but I don't even know where to start?  I'd like to build it myself, and have it be automatic, by selecting a game, but if I need to buy parts, or whatnot, I can do that also.  Where do I begin?  How much wider would the actual cabinet need to be to accommodate it?  How big and powerful of a motor (s?) would I need?  How loud would it be?  Any ideas I could do myself to reduce cost, and such?  Ways to incorporate cool things with it?  I know it is already going to be a big project, but it doesn't seem like it would add that much width or depth to it?

Thanks, Mapsking

[DaOld Man]

Hello mapsking, and welcome to the forum.
Also, welcome to the most time consuming and wallet deflating hobby you can get into, albeit a most rewarding thing, well worth the contributions of time and money.
Anything is possible, and I love to see the big heavy screens turning.
Automating the turn is very simple, considering the resources on here.
With a monitor that big you will most likely need a powerful motor, but a windshield wiper motor from a car will probably work, but it wont turn real fast. (Which may or may not be ok with you.)
And as for cabinet width, it will have to be wide enough to allow the monitor to turn without the corners of the monitor hitting the sides of the cab.
A good rule of thumb would be the diagonal measurement of the monitor, measured from one actual corner of the case to the next corner.
Then look to see if centering the screen is going to change this. (Some monitors have a slim top above the screen but a fat bottom below the screen. Since you want the center of the screen to be in the center of the cabinet, you will have to take the offset caused by the fat bottom into account.)
This measurement, plus an inch for fudge factor, is how wide the inside of the cabinet should be.
Of course if you can de-case the monitor, that might save a lot of room.
I have also seen someone on here make a cabinet with a swing out side(s) that would allow the monitor to turn and still not leave a lot of wasted space between the screen edge and the inside of the cabinet sides. (Monitor bezel area).
This is the right spot to ask questions about your automation. When you begin the actual building, you may want to start a thread in Project Announcements too. More people will probably see it there.
Good luck on your build, and we are here to help so dont be afraid to ask.

[pageygeeza@yahoo.co.uk]

I've been pointed here because I'm automating my own screen rotator.

The issue I'm now seeing is that I'm using a simple polarity reverse switch to change motor direction, rather than using a dedicated stepper motor which everyone else appears to be doing.

So the way my system is supposed to be set up:

Software determines the orientation of the MAME renderer, sends a corresponding value to an Arduino, the code on the Arduino then energises the relay coils to turn the motors on/off.

This allows me to use pretty much any brushed DC motor to spin the screen.

But in my path to simplicity, I've made the software side really complicated.

I'm aware the MROTATE software sends via serial, not via a COM port.

Is there any way the code can be modified to do this?

[PL1]

I'm aware the MROTATE software sends via serial, not via a COM port.

Is there any way the code can be modified to do this?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.   

The Arduino COM port can't handle the full range of logic level voltages that fall within the RS-232 standard, but it is a serial port.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232

The RS-232 standard defines the voltage levels that correspond to logical one and logical zero levels for the data transmission and the control signal lines. Valid signals are either in the range of +3 to +15 volts or the range −3 to −15 volts with respect to the "Common Ground" (GND) pin

https://www.arduino.cc/reference/en/language/functions/communication/serial/

Serial communication on pins TX/RX uses TTL logic levels (5V or 3.3V depending on the board). Don’t connect these pins directly to an RS232 serial port; they operate at +/- 12V and can damage your Arduino board.

To use these extra serial ports to communicate with your personal computer, you will need an additional USB-to-serial adaptor, as they are not connected to the Mega’s USB-to-serial adaptor. To use them to communicate with an external TTL serial device, connect the TX pin to your device’s RX pin, the RX to your device’s TX pin, and the ground of your Mega to your device’s ground.

Scott