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Author Topic: 1000 Reasons not to vote for GW  (Read 28398 times)

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saint

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2004, 03:37:27 pm »
Well, I swore to myself I wasn't getting involved unless it got ugly, but this line irritates the heck out of me. Dodger, I'm not singling you out, many people are slinging this line around...

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You live in one of the truly free states, if you don't like it move to France.

That is the utter antithesis of what living in a democracy is about. It is the very fact that we  are able to stand up and declare that we do not like the direction the country is moving in and that we believe there is a better way that is what makes this country one of the greatest on this planet.  I live in one of the truly free states, if I don't like it, *I should work to change it*, not leave it....

I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to death your right to say it. I may try to convince you you're wrong, or that it's not worth my time, but I won't tell you to get the hell out.

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shmokes

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2004, 04:14:41 pm »

Sorry by your lack of knowlededge of Americans rights, I thought you were a Canadian.

Heh...I think I think it is, perhaps, your lack of understanding of how our electoral system works, rather than my lack of knowledge of American rights that is causing your confusion, Dartful.  Utah is the MOST republican state in the nation.  Whether I vote for Kerry, Bush, Nader, None of the Above, or simply stay home on voting day, all 5 of Utah's electoral votes will count for Bush.  And since popular vote does not affect the outcome of the election (hence Gore is not the president) I truly "can't help [get George Bush out of office] by voting."

The only gun fact you refuted was that M16s are illegal.  What does that have to do with Bowling for Columbine?  I just assumed that they are illegal because I've never seen them for sale, and it makes sense that they would be illegal.

I don't think handguns and bazookas are the same, but it's the same principle.  Freedom to bare arms is not absolute, whether it's cooking knives or tanks that are being banned.  If it makes you feel any better freedom of speach is also restricted in many ways.  Slander and libel are illegal.  It's illegal for me to yell into a bull-horn at 3:00 a.m. in front of a Hospital -- even if I'm on a public sidewalk and think Intermountain Healthcare is evil.

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You live in one of the truly free states, if you don't like it move to France.

France is every bit as free as we are.  There are differences; they are more free in many ways and less free in others.  But those differences are superficial.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2004, 04:42:37 pm by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2004, 04:35:04 pm »

Healthcare:
How do you know the Canadian health system is better than ours? Back that up.  It's an opinion, not a fact.  There problems with any system. At least we can find a doctor if we need one.

Here are some fun statistics.  I'll start with cost since the Canadian government spends less, per capita, for healthcare than the U.S. government, in spite of everyone thinking Canada has an evil, socialist healthcare system and the U.S. doesn't:

Public Healthcare Funding, per capita:  U.S.=$2,051  Canada=$1,826
Private Healthcare Funding, per capita: U.S.=$2,580  Canada=$709
Total Annual Cost of Healthcare, per capita:    U.S.=$4,631   Canada=$2,535

So, Canadians can actually afford healthcare.  It must be inferior in quality, right?

Babies born with low Birthweight:  U.S.=7.8%   Canada=5.6%

Doctors per 1000 people:  U.S.=2.8   Canada=2.1  (U.S. actually wins this one)

Child mortality per 1,000:   U.S.=16   Canada=11

Life Expectancy (in years):   U.S.=77.14   Canada=79.83

Life Expectancy (Healthy Years):  U.S.=67.6   Canada=69.9

Probability of not living to 60:    U.S.=12.8%   Canada=9.5%

Annual Plastic Surgery Proceedures  ;D  :    U.S.= 90,992     Canada= 11,102

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Same thing about Smoking.
I don't know if this was directed at me, but I don't smoke and never have (well, I've smoked weed a couple dozen times, but I don't smoke that either and probably never will again except if I'm in Amsterdam)


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We have freed France, Germany, brought down the Wall, and have established democracy all over this planet.

That's just narcissistic.  We played a tardy, albeit significant role in beating the Nazis.  We had relatively nothing to do with bringing the wall down.  And rarely, Japan being a notable exception, is democracy ever established except by revolution, usually violent, by the citizens of the state in question.  When it is established by a third party without the revolution of the citizens, Japan being a notable exception,  it rarely works.


Edit:  Those statistics are World Health Organization stats in case you wanted to check my credibility.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2004, 04:55:57 pm by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2004, 04:56:25 pm »
boobs are cool

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2004, 05:01:53 pm »
Censorship:
Yep, there are other media outlets Banned in Canada.  As far as Fox, I have to support them over any other news outlet.  I think NPR should be shut down myself.  I don't think that's censorship, I think that's business.

I'm not sure what your talking about here... but every major US news outlet can be viewed here in Canada.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2004, 05:09:43 pm »
Gun Control:
Only the criminals have guns in Canada.  The law abiding citizens had to give theirs up.  I don't see where it will help us.  

If I wanted a gun, I can get a gun.. There is no issue with Canadian getting a gun... it's just not my "'right" too have gun.  Canadians are hunters..


We have freed France, Germany, brought down the Wall, and have established democracy all over this planet.  

I'm your forgetting a couple of things regarding this... Canadian Soldiers were also fighting in WW1 & WW2 long before US got involved with these wars. And we've helped freed a bunch of countries too.  Remember, Canadian Soldiers were the only soldiers to land on Normandy beach where they were suppose to.  
« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 05:13:20 pm by GGKoul »

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2004, 05:15:07 pm »
Quote from: shmokes link=board=6;threadid=23483;start=40#msg192022
Public Healthcare Funding, per capita:  U.S.=$2,051  Canada=$1,826
Private Healthcare Funding, per capita: U.S.=$2,580  Canada=$709
Total Annual Cost of Healthcare, per capita:    U.S.=$4,631   Canada=$2,535

So, Canadians can actually afford healthcare.  It must be inferior in quality, right?

Babies born with low Birthweight:  U.S.=7.8%   Canada=5.6%

Doctors per 1000 people:  U.S.=2.8   Canada=2.1  (U.S. actually wins this one)

Child mortality per 1,000:   U.S.=16   Canada=11

Life Expectancy (in years):   U.S.=77.14   Canada=79.83

Life Expectancy (Healthy Years):  U.S.=67.6   Canada=69.9

Probability of not living to 60:    U.S.=12.8%   Canada=9.5%

Plastic Surgery Proceedures  ;D  :    U.S.= 90,992     Canada= 11,102

Quote


Great Stats!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 05:16:36 pm by GGKoul »

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2004, 05:40:23 pm »
Another one for Fred...

Voter turnout.
Voter turnout has nothing to do with anything.

You don't think that whether a person votes is any kind of indicator of whether that person is interested in politics????  I mean, certainly there are other indicators, but that's a pretty valid one that's nice and easy to quantify.

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Boycott:
No, it's not.  The comparison between Cuba and Canada is absurd.  Cuba was supported by Russia.  I wouldn't say that their quality of life has improved from the time Castro took control would you?  If it was so nice, then I don't suppose they'd be on boats to FLA would they?  

I didn't say Canada would be better off if the U.S. boycotted them for 30 days, I said that said boycot would certainly not end their civilization.  In fact, if I remember right I also said that for obvious reason Canada would not want to sever their relationship with the U.S.  Of course, the quality of life in the U.S. would also be impacted negatively if we boycotted Canada.

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I think that we are the leader of not only the free world, but the entire world.
But, of course, we are neither.  At least not by American standards -- considering that would make America an unelected dictator.  If you believe that the right to rule comes solely from one's military power, I wonder if it isn't you, and not me, who should move to another country.   In America we believe in democracy.

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I think in fact you have fallen prey to those who would undermine the way of life in the US.  It is dividing our culture and destroying our core values.  


That's absolutely correct.  I'm all about undermining the way of life in America, because I believe it could be a lot better.  I think it's important to destroy core values that suck.  The inferiority of blacks compared with whites was such a core value of America that the Constitution of the United States actually defines a black man as 3/5 of a person.   I don't care about the status quo, I care about right and wrong.

Quote
Look at Canada, they can't even figure out what Language to speak.  They are taxed to the point they want to migrate to the US to escape it.  

Have another statistic:

Average Annual Budget Revenues, per capita:  U.S.= $6,702.42  Canada=$5,545.35


Canadians pay less than we do in taxes.  Maybe it's you who should be supporting your claims with facts.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 05:49:59 pm by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2004, 05:49:44 pm »
Please.  There are so many reports of socialized medicine falling apart, it is a shame people buy into it.  Geeze.  Here's a link (out of at least 3000 I could find) to refute the WHO impression of it.  I didn't find that comparison by the way in my search.  I did find a whole lot of this though :

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/chapterfiles/Executive%20Summary-pages1-6.pdf#1

The Canadian system is not as well managed as people would like, and private doctors are not in the system.  No wonder the English speaking doctors are heading to the good ol' USA.  It has no competition.  The world looks to the US as the innovator.  Let me put it this way, if anybody in your family is sick or terribly ill, do they seek the experts in any other country besides the USA?  Where do the rich of the world go for experts? Canada? No. They come here.  

Now I'm not against Canada per say. No way. Canada has worked with American much better than Mexico in the past.  The Liberal government of Canada is trying to maintain itself.  

Eventually, any goverment/country in trouble will start blaming some other unrelated factors to divert the blame from theselves.  Don't Buy into that.

And find Foxnews Channel in Canada on your cable.  Go ahead, look for it in the listings.  If it's there and you can find Bill O'Reilley, then I appologize.

I guess what tees me off is foreigners wanting to interfere in American Politics.  I don't mind Shmokes or Mr. C going off, but I don't think it's my place to discuss political trends in other free countries like the UK, Austrailia, or Canada.  And vice versa.

By the Way Shmokes, as far as the smoking remark, I wasn't trying to pun your name.  I was trying to draw the comparison of issues.  One is not as severe as the other.  But some people go off on smokers and think it should be banned. I'm a smoker.  I love smoking.  Abortion is the same way. Just because it isn't banned doesn't mean people won't disagree about it.

And the US did free those countries by our direct involvement with the Allies.  It's not narcissistic. It's a fact.  You can spin it anyway you want, but it will come out that the US is the leader in those respects.

And it's a right to own firearms in the US.  A lot of people have fought and died for that right.  I don't plan on giving anymore rights.


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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2004, 05:55:41 pm »
A lot of people have fought and died for that right.  I don't plan on giving anymore rights.

Oh yeah?  How about a woman's right to have an abortion?  Would you give that up?  Or is it only the rights you use that you want to protect?

And a cable company choosing not to put Fox News in their linup as a business decision is a far cry from government censorship.  I really think you should consider a little fact checking before you click the post button.

Basic Dish Network service where I live doesn't include Fox News.  That's probably the Censorship from the Bush Administration, eh?  They must hate Fox News.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2004, 04:47:48 pm by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2004, 06:05:15 pm »
A lot of people have fought and died for that right.  I don't plan on giving anymore rights.

Oh yeah?  How about a woman's right to have an abortion?  Would you give that up?  Or is it only the rights you use that you want to protect?


A lot of people are dieing for abortion too.

The ones dieing are against abortion, and they're to young to vote.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2004, 06:19:22 pm »
how about a womans right to show off her boobs!??!  thats what i stand for: "boobs, breasts, and the american rack"

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2004, 07:11:01 pm »
how about a womans right to show off her boobs!??!  thats what i stand for: "boobs, breasts, and the american rack"

Here's a site for you.. http://www.topfree.ca/  <--- It's Canadian.

Also, in Canada, For a short period after the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled in 1996 that a Guelph woman was not indecent when she walked down the street topless, some street-corner prostitutes in that province displayed their breasts to potential customers.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2004, 07:32:14 pm »
The Canadian system is not as well managed as people would like, and private doctors are not in the system.  No wonder the English speaking doctors are heading to the good ol' USA.  It has no competition.  The world looks to the US as the innovator.  Let me put it this way, if anybody in your family is sick or terribly ill, do they seek the experts in any other country besides the USA?  Where do the rich of the world go for experts? Canada? No. They come here.  

Just to give you the facts about Canada's Health Care system:
 
- Canada does not have a 2 Tier health care system.  As Health Care is a basic right for all Canadians and not a "private" health care system for those you can afford it.

- The only Canadian doctor's that are going to the US, are the ones mainly in the cosmetic industry.  As there is a larger market in the US.


The world looks to the US as the innovator.

Yes, that was the case.  But when I last checked, stem cell research wasn't allowed in the US.  And this is forcing some Research Doctors to move outside of the US to continue their research by usign stem cells.  And because of this, your going to see more innovations coming form other place.  Doctor's leaving the US is similar to what happened in Germany in the 1940's & 50's.  When doctor's left to come to the US to continue their research with out any interference from the "State"


Let me put it this way, if anybody in your family is sick or terribly ill, do they seek the experts in any other country besides the USA?  Where do the rich of the world go for experts? Canada? No. They come here.  


If I'm sick, I go to the hospital and I get taken care of.  Yes, the Rich of the world come to the US when they are sick.  Because in the US health care.. money talks.  If Canada, if I'm sick, I get the best experts in that field to help me.  I don't have to pay extra money to have that expert take care of me.  

But when I last check, the leading places for Aids, Cancer,  MS research was in Canada.



Yes, there is some issues with the Canadian Health Care system.  But at a bare minium, a sick person, regardless of how mutch money they have or if they have insurance or not.. in Canada, they will be taken care of and not be sent out into the cold.


« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 07:35:14 pm by GGKoul »

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2004, 07:53:53 pm »

The ones dieing are against abortion, and they're to young to vote.

I can go on and on about this too, but I assume that most people here would just as soon not have the abortion argument here.

My point is, Fredster wants to undermine our way of life too.  Abortion is currently legal, he wants it to be illegal.  We both want to change the country for the better.  My idea of better is just better than yours.  ;)

And Fred, the WHO isn't taking a position on socialized medicine with those statistics.  I simply went to their website to get factual information.   They're facts.  I didn't get that information out of a WHO article promoting socialized medicine.  I sifted through the statistics they had listed for all member countries, isolated the figures for the U.S. and Canada and relayed them to you.  They are just facts, presented at face value, and you have to come to concusions on your own based on those facts.

I really think that's something that sets you and I apart.  You get your information from people who have a strong political agenda, like Fox News and Bill O'Reilly.  I'm not going to come into a political discussion trying to refute things people say by quoting Bill Maher.  Don't get me wrong, I think Bill Maher is really intelligent, articulate and entertaining.  But he's got an agenda.  He's extremely biased.  He only gives information that reflects positively on his side.

 For example, if I had got those health statistics from Bill Maher's website (if he has one), you can bet that the one about the number of doctors per 1000 people would have simply been left out, because it didn't support the argument.  The U.S. had Canada beat on that one.  It wouldn't be lying, it just wouldn't be complete.  This is the kind of information you get from people like Bill O'Reilly and Bill Maher.  They don't want you to be informed.  They only want you to be informed of things that will make you agree with their political position.  
« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 07:58:51 pm by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2004, 09:18:09 pm »

I don't wanna get off on a rant here, but it never ceases to amaze me how people even attempt to compare George W Bush and Mr. Kerry.  Now don't get me wrong folks, gw makes a great leader if your idea of leadership is blow up anything that pissed off your daddy or if you find responses such as "umm" "uh" and "wha?" valid counterpoints to issues about the enconomy.  The rest of us, however might prefer a leader that doesn't embarrass the entire nation by how down right stupid he is.  

Let's forget about issues, because weather you all like to admit it or not nobody knows the issues, the candidates views on the issues, the plans they have to solve said isseus, or even if those issues don't exist and they were simply made up to give the opponent something to talk about.  Let's face it kiddies, to 95% of the voting population, doesn't know any of this stuff.  The presidential election is nothing more than a popularity contest.  This can be solidified by the idiotic people interviewed on your local news who give use great reasons for backing candidates like "I like Bush because he's for coal!"  Excuse me?  "For Coal?"  What kind of vague statment is that?  How could you not be "for coal" in one way or another, afterall, it powers 75% of americas electrical plants.  If a candidate buys your vote with such a vaguely laid out statment like that then I have a cow and some magic beans you might be interested in.  

Ok getting back to the point.  We have pretty much shown that issues mean NOTHING in an election.  The quesiton arises then, what should be look at?  Well again, those fiesty candidates have already shown us what to look at, via their crap slinging juvenille cry fests we refer to as political ads.  No i'm not talking about issues, I'm talking about their past. And not the past they look at either.  Quite frankly, I don't care if John Kerry was picking his nose 70% of the time during a vote for prop #567 or if bush once was arrested for shoplifting a pink bunnie lunch box in second grade.  I care about their real past, namely how many times did they screw up on the job before now.  

G. W. has to be the worst example of the people will vote for anybody who's famous, or is realted to somebody famous.  He spent pretty much his entire adult life a drunk, and by some miracle we was elected governor of texas.  Of course it's mere conicidence that he was elected after his daddy was elected president.  Yes, kids, the sad fact is, bush probably got electd because those poor texans were confused and thought they were voting for former president george bush.  But let's get over that and look at how bad we screwed up texas instead.  :D  

Texas has never been known for it's good environment policies, but after bush got done the state was "more polluted"  than it had been in 20 years.  I won't bore you with facts as you don't care about them, but lets just say go down to texas some time and see how smoggy, treeless and all around nasty it is now. Didn't used to be that way before ol'e G.W. came to town, so we'll blame him.  And I won't even go into the economy.  He screwed up texas so bad that some of the poor white trash living there had to be downgraded to "poo' white trash" as they couldn't afford the extra letter.  

The point being, he screwd up texas so bad I knew about it before he even though of running for president.  I don't follow politics, do you know how bad a politician has to screw up before I notice it?  It's like "politician eats babies" level before it even reaches my politically deaf ears.  
Trust me, it's bad.  I know you won't look it up, as you don't really care, but we've covered that, so I'll move on.  

Prsident G.W.  what a wonderful job he's done.  We'll if you consider screwing up the first balanced budget in... well, ever during his first year wonderful.  Yes, that dirty rotten dog Bubba Clinton did something unspeakable during his terms, something that a politician hasn't done since the 1700's.. he did his job.  The economy was in a mess before he popped in and had no sign of turning around. Using his patented 8 year "magicial nobody knows how it worked, but it sure did" plan he left G.W. the keys with the old gal in better shape than she had been in the country's history.  It would have taken a complete idiot to screw it up.  Oh hello Mr. President.   ;D

And don't give me the 9/11 stuff.  He screwed it up way before 9/11.  As a matter of fact, the media was nailing him for it before 9/11 and out of "respect" they magically stopped for the remainder of his term.  9/11 was the best thing that could have happened to him.  Now whenever he screws up he has a great big distraction and a point of blame that everyone will beleive.  He is the large scale equivelent of a bad businessman who was mugged 4 years ago and uses that mugging as a point of blame for why his business went under.  

Kerry?  Well I don't know much about Kerry.  And that is the point.  No news is good news.  Afterall, if he screwd up really bad, we would hear about it.  Media whores love political scandal and if he screwed up big we'd know about it.  Plus, bush makes us look bad.  He's a really bad speaker and on top of that a really bad lier.  I mean how is he supposed to run the naiton if he can't sling b.s. to the American people and other countries.  And fi you don't think that's a necessary skill then I refer you to bubba once again.  Best liar in the history of the nation, and yet he did the best for our nation.  But you don't wanna hear issues, so we'll just leave it at that.  

So vote for Kerry, at least he hasn't screwed up yet.   :D

Well anyway, that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.  I dunno.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2004, 10:09:09 pm »
yeah, you're wrong.  now dont you feel dumb after writing all that out?  you could have just asked me, and i would have told you before hand that you were wrong.  warn me next time, and ill make sure and tell ya. ;D

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2004, 10:48:49 pm »
Boobs are cool.

Hulkster thanks for reminding us all.

-Goz

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2004, 01:05:42 am »
My eyes are glazing over - these threads are all the same lately and yet I keep looking.

I must be a closet masochist or something.  :)

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2004, 01:50:22 am »

G. W. has to be the worst example of the people will vote for anybody who's famous, or is realted to somebody famous.  He spent pretty much his entire adult life a drunk, and by some miracle we was elected governor of texas.  Of course it's mere conicidence that he was elected after his daddy was elected president.  Yes, kids, the sad fact is, bush probably got electd because those poor texans were confused and thought they were voting for former president george bush.  But let's get over that and look at how bad we screwed up texas instead.  :D  

 O.k.  I first of all I am a texas resident have been for about 8 years. Bush may have gotten elected the first time because of who daddy was but he did get re-elected.  So any effect from his dad had worn off by then.
Texas has never been known for it's good environment policies, but after bush got done the state was "more polluted"  than it had been in 20 years.  I won't bore you with facts as you don't care about them, but lets just say go down to texas some time and see how smoggy, treeless and all around nasty it is now. Didn't used to be that way before ol'e G.W. came to town, so we'll blame him.  And I won't even go into the economy.  He screwed up texas so bad that some of the poor white trash living there had to be downgraded to "poo' white trash" as they couldn't afford the extra letter.  

Please, show me the facts.  ???

Ohh no what happened to the trees they are all gone.  Ohh wait I live in a state that is mostly comprised of flat desert like land.  Good thing I live in East Texas with nice hills and pleanty of trees to go around.  It helps that the weather permits this thing called rain to accour in my region that allows for growth for plants like trees.  As for the poor getting poorer, the only companies where i am from that lay off people is trane and Carrier.  Every one that works for them that doesn't have some sort of back up plan for when they get laid off thats their mistake.

Prsident G.W.  what a wonderful job he's done.  We'll if you consider screwing up the first balanced budget in... well, ever during his first year wonderful.  Yes, that dirty rotten dog Bubba Clinton did something unspeakable during his terms, something that a politician hasn't done since the 1700's.. he did his job.  The economy was in a mess before he popped in and had no sign of turning around. Using his patented 8 year "magicial nobody knows how it worked, but it sure did" plan he left G.W. the keys with the old gal in better shape than she had been in the country's history.  It would have taken a complete idiot to screw it up.  Oh hello Mr. President.   ;D

I could have sworn the economy was going down hill as he left office.  
  Oh and a quick note about health care in Texas any person can walk into the emergency room a recieve care regardless if they have health insurance and  outstanding hospital bills.  This is good and bad.

Good:
 Everyone recieves some form of health care.
Bad:
 That everyone includes people that dont have family practishiners(SP?). ie they go to the E.R. with a cold to recieve care because they can't afford to go to a clinic and may stiff the hospital making them eventually charge more, so that over some time my insuarance rates will go up as they have for the past 3 years .

  But IMO(rant, as if any posts on these 2 pages havent been) the good outways the bad and there are to many doctors in texas.  Because I know I sure as hell would not vote to let mal practice law suits cap out at $250,000.  And our current state legislatures are all crap.(end rant)

But if anyone would like to learn more about lovely Smith County please pick up Smith County Justice by David Ellsworth(if you find it tell me i have not read it, it is about our corrupt sheriffs department.)  

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2004, 10:36:34 am »
Boobs are cool.

Hulkster thanks for reminding us all.

-Goz

thanks man....*sigh*...my work here is done.  up, up, and away!!!!

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2004, 01:05:01 pm »
...my work here is done.  

Thank god.
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2004, 02:06:34 pm »
And it's a right to own firearms in the US.  A lot of people have fought and died for that right.  I don't plan on giving anymore rights.

...and lots of people are still dying because of it. Why can't you see you have a problem with people being killed by guns? You have more poeple killed by guns per year than many, many other 'civilised' countries combined.....

when will it stop?

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2004, 03:02:05 pm »
And it's a right to own firearms in the US.  A lot of people have fought and died for that right.  I don't plan on giving anymore rights.

...and lots of people are still dying because of it. Why can't you see you have a problem with people being killed by guns? You have more poeple killed by guns per year than many, many other 'civilised' countries combined.....

when will it stop?


from what i have concluded after watching Bowling for Columbine, is that for some reason the people in this country resort to killing people to solve what ever their problem is.  they skip over or are unsatisfied with the means of resolving a dispute by rational thinking.  It just some weird mentallity that alot of americans have ingrained in them that a gun or killing someone solves their problems.

Here's an example: A man i went to high school with had such a grudge with an old friend that 5 years after that person left town and came back.  He found were he was a shot him the parking lot of barnes and noble.  20 minutes later he turned himself in at the sheriffs department.

I still don't think it would help to outlaw all guns.  I also don't see the need for citizens to own automatic weapons.  The people that try to own these weapons for "their protection"  probably have a screw loose.


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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2004, 04:17:36 pm »
...my work here is done.  

Thank god.

*spoken in super hero type voice*
never fear shmokes, for i will return....i will return whenever people give useless politcal facts in hopes of changing peoples minds even though it never will!  so keep your nose clean, vote for Bush, and dont shmoke pot.....up, up, and away!!!!
*fades into the distance while flipping off shmokes*

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #65 on: August 21, 2004, 04:38:55 pm »
...my work here is done.  
Too much to hope for I guess.  

Hulkster, some people like debating politics regardless of whether we change people's minds.  We enjoy it.  I don't personally care whether you like it or not, considering I'm not in your thread.  I certainly can't figure out why you care if other people are discussing politics.  Your obnoxious tendency to pop in to make unrelated comments in these threads is like me going into a thread where you're talking about the pedestal of your showcase cab being wobbly and making posts like:

G.W. Bush SUCKS!!!

or

Vote for Kerry!!!

Who knows, maybe one day, when you're all grown up, you might even like discussing politics.  
« Last Edit: August 21, 2004, 04:58:38 pm by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2004, 05:15:51 pm »
hmmm....point taken.  

random posts are still cool though...kinda lightens the mood a little.  

oh and kerry sucks. :D

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2004, 06:54:03 pm »
Quote
from what i have concluded after watching Bowling for Columbine, is that for some reason the people in this country resort to killing people to solve what ever their problem is.

Please tell me you are not one of the weak minded people that are influenced by what that a$$bag Micheal Moore tries to get people to believe.

-Goz

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2004, 07:57:35 pm »
Quote
from what i have concluded after watching Bowling for Columbine, is that for some reason the people in this country resort to killing people to solve what ever their problem is.

Please tell me you are not one of the weak minded people that are influenced by what that a$$bag Micheal Moore tries to get people to believe.

-Goz

No i am still voting bush after watching F9/11.  I did enjoy the film though.   If the Dems would have picked a better canidate then Kerry I might have voted for them.  BTW anyone else see the Daily shows video montage of Kerrys life, and to show that he's not bush.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #69 on: August 22, 2004, 06:48:56 am »
Gay Marriages - you can have them. No offense intended to any gays reading this, but again it is a matter of beliefs and the letter of the law. The law states that a marriage is between a man and a woman (multiple women  in utah). It is an issue here because of perception. The gay activists believe they are being repressed. It's not repression, its law. If enough people want it, have the law changed to a marriage being between two individuals not related by blood.

It not repression, it's the law?  Thats the biggest piece of crap I've ever read.  Seperate but equal treatment... sound familiar?  Maybe if "enough people didn't want it" we could start giving blacks different bathrooms again....  cause apparantly, if it's part of the law, its not repression.

But thanks for not intending to offend me, but you did a pretty good job.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2004, 06:52:44 am »
On the lighter side...  the Vice Guide to Canada.  It's amazing.


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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2004, 10:28:36 am »
On the lighter side...  the Vice Guide to Canada.  It's amazing.



Thanks mmmPB, that was a good, funny read.

(I guess I'm an American Canadaphille - I blame Kids in the Hall, SCTV, and Rush for that.)

(EDIT #2: My 400th Post - woohoo.  I'll catch up to Floyd soon).
« Last Edit: August 22, 2004, 10:33:15 am by DaveMMR »

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2004, 03:09:11 pm »
I'd just like to say, as a Canadian, with very good friends and even family on both sides of the border, that this thread is ridiculous. Well, at least the parts where "Canada sucks because it isn't the US". Wow. You know, you guys would probably come by the house, sit down, and I'd mix you whatever drink you'd like (as long as you don't get violent when you drink, as you might find out we don't need guns since we can kill just fine with our hockey sticks and snowshoes), and we'd have a great chat. You'd find that I'm at least as well schooled as yourself, perhaps even more so since I know that dieing is really not a word, and that the US doesn't have a King or a Pope or even a shmoo for a leader. In fact, we'd probably get along just fine, since I have no political aspirations, so don't consider myself a republican or a democrat. Don't like Quebec? GREAT! Want to compare us with Mexico, umm, okay... I don't know many Mexicans but maybe we're just like them. You think American beer is better than Canadian? Cool, I'll grab you one out of the fridge.

What I don't get is hating someone you don't even know. I mean, we could have grown up together in houses side by side, only separated by the (once) invisible Canadian/US border, and we might be like brothers. I think if we knew each other like that it would be more difficult to say "you're Canadian/Mexican/Russian/etc, you live on the other side of that invisible line, so I hate you". Well, that, and the fact that if you lived next door and kept insulting me, I might just set your house on fire.

Another example: A single loony US citizen did myself or my family harm, I sure might hate that one guy...hell you might find bits of him covered in lye in my wine cellar... but I wouldn't run around going "gaaa Americans suck" since generally, they don't! We've all got our collection of loonies, so let's relax and chill a bit. All these threads are doing is turning us against each other (which I suppose is the point of some of the posts). I was a bit surprised Saint didn't lock down these threads, but he's right, free speech is a wonderful gift. I just don't know if enough thought is being put into what is being said...

Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2004, 06:08:22 pm »
...the most sensible thing I've read in this whole thread. well done :)
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2004, 07:23:07 pm »
...since I know that dieing is really not a word

 :)  true that
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2004, 09:48:47 pm »
Danny,

Bayer's research headquarters are in the US. That's where the money is at.   They charge us so your healthcare in can be cheaper. See? We are paying for all the research.  And that's one company. Not the 100's of other biotechs here in the US, which was my point in the first place.  The bulk of research isn't done in a socialist or communist setting, it's done in a capatalistic country for money.

 Your second link does more to prove my point than anything I could have wrote.

Quote
Cuba was the US 5th largest trading partner. the Us was their largest. how would YOU fair if suddenly your biggest trading partner (could that be CHINA by the way?) decided they didnt like you anymore?
 - We could probably get all of our jobs back making those cheap stuffed animals and McDonald land funmeal toys.  What a loss.

As far as Cuba, keyword there: was the US 5th.  Now they can't even afford good boats to escape Castro.  When you look at pictures of Cuba, see any new cars from in there?  Does that point seem to escape from this discussion? There are people escaping cuba on rafts because it's so bad. They are trying to get to the USA on anything they can.  Why is that?

How about this one :
Quote
to deny a country its revenue and THEN say 'look, their system doesn't work' is extremely childish.
 We call that foreign policy. You should look at your countrie's foreign policy and see just how similar they are. It's how the world works.

I have to say about Gun Control: No. We have enough. We have enough laws now, no more.   Now I know you will correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK, did they not continue regulation of guns until now the government went in and confiscated all the guns?  Now they can't have any?  

Personally, I'd like to see a law that says we can't pass anymore laws unless we get rid of one, maybe two.  

I didn't see bowling for columbine, and probably won't.  I don't see where we all should have fully auto weapons.  I did see 'red dawn'.  That's more in the sprit of what I am talking about. That's what the founding fathers had in mind.  They thought that if the new government became too oppressive, at least people could form militia and take care of it.  Some people have tried that.  We know who they are (were).  

There is only two things we ever really talk about.  Time and Money.  Who's time and / or who's money is all we really discuss.

I'm kinda swaying on the national healthcare thing myself to be truthful.  There's a lot of old guys at my work who can't retire for fear something will get them between the years Social security and Medicare start.  I can be swayed if the plan is right and the costs are offset.  

And I'm not attacking Canada or the Canadians.  I'm just saying that their system isn't our system.  They have decided their way and we have decided ours. We have a traditional system setup that works. It has flaws, but so do the other systems. We are used to the flaws and we try and fix them.
How do I know this? Well, I have had cancer and chemotherapy, my wife has a nurological disorder that has almost taken her life,  we had a child and paid all the bills there, and I had my appendix blow up one night.  Plus numerous car wrecks and stiches, etc.  My family's total lifetime medical bills are probably hitting close to $700,000 dollars American.  So I know a little about it.

I pay a lot of money personally for medical costs / insurance. Between my work's insurance and medicade taxes it comes out to well over $550 a month.  (That's like $675 Canadian or $620 euros isn't it?).  I'll quote the Beatles on this one - "so you say you want a revolution, well, we'd all love to see the plan"

Either way, it's the US that votes for the President of the United States.  It's our business, and that was my basic point.  We decide who's best for us, and we argue about it. You decide who's best for wherever you are at.  We don't talk about your politics and you don't talk about ours. I think that's very fair.

Some people think that the President went too far.  Some say he didn't do the right thing.  I've heard it in every adminstration I've been living under.

The last (and I mean last) thing I will comment on in these threads is the cheap shot -
Quote
this sort of attitude is why people like to fly planes into your buildings.

There were over 3000 people who died that day Danny. They weren't soldiers, they weren't politicians, they weren't evil. They were people like you and I who were at work making the money to get buy. A group of very commited fanatics who hate everything the west, and that means Austrailia too, stand for kill them. They cut the throat of women on planes with knives and killed innocent children.  They didn't like our helping Israel and how we don't bend down before them.

Unlike some of you, I never forget that. It's the whole reason we are in this mess.  If you all the Americans here want to take the chance that Kerry will continue the war on terror or do something Bush cannot, then by all means, vote your heart.

But I remember the President's speech on 9/18/01.  It was the best speech I have ever heard from any president. I believe that he is not acting out of any personal gratification or any vendetta.  I don't get the same vibe from Kerry.  I personally feel like he's a very political animal that is running for Kerry, not the people like GW is.  

That's my last word.




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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #76 on: August 23, 2004, 12:38:06 am »
Fredster,

For the last time, nobody is refuting the fact that our forty year boycot of Cuba has had a significant effect on the country.  We are informing you of the fact that the country still exists after forty years.  We are refuting your claim that a 30 day boycot of Canada would "bring their civilization to an end."

And while people of other countries cannot vote in our elections, surely you understand that they have a reasonable interest in American politics.  I like to think that American politics have some effect on the rest of the world.  We seem to take a great deal of interest in who will be the president of other countries.  Take Iraq, for example...

Speaking of Iraq...what exactly does Iraq have to do with this "war on terror" you are so concerned with.  You were taken with the 09-18-01 speech, but President Bush shifted the focus a bit, didn't he.  If I understand correctly it is Saddam Hussein who was captured, not Osama bin Laden.  If I understand correctly the bulk of our military is devoted to Iraq, rather than Afghanistan and the Taliban.  Shortly after our country recieved the most devastating attack in its history our leader decided to virtually ignore the attackers to bring war on a harmless country who's leader he held a grudge with.  Not to mention the blind eye he turned and continues to turn on Saudia Arabia, for obvious reasons (not the least of which being his family's pocket books), in spite of the fact that they supplied nearly all of the 9/11 murderers.

I don't see how Kerry could possibly do a worse job in the war on Al Queida.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2004, 12:40:42 am by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #77 on: August 23, 2004, 10:34:53 am »
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Cuba was the US 5th largest trading partner. the Us was their largest. how would YOU fair if suddenly your biggest trading partner (could that be CHINA by the way?) decided they didnt like you anymore?
 - We could probably get all of our jobs back making those cheap stuffed animals and McDonald land funmeal toys.  What a loss.

As far as Cuba, keyword there: was the US 5th.  Now they can't even afford good boats to escape Castro.  When you look at pictures of Cuba, see any new cars from in there?  Does that point seem to escape from this discussion? There are people escaping cuba on rafts because it's so bad. They are trying to get to the USA on anything they can.  Why is that?

Have you ever been to Cuba?  As a Canadian, I've been there many times on holidays.  What a beautiful country.  Yes, they are a poor country.  But everyone in Cuba is on a equal playing field.  Education (Even University), Health Care and a bunch of other services are paid for by the State.  The main industry is tourist from Canada, Europe & Asia.  I can tell you, that as soon as the boycott is lifted, your going to see more and more hotels pop up and it's going to ruin the country.  Do you know they have am exact replica of the US Senate Building in downtown Havana?  It's something to see...


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How do I know this? Well, I have had cancer and chemotherapy, my wife has a nurological disorder that has almost taken her life,  we had a child and paid all the bills there, and I had my appendix blow up one night.  Plus numerous car wrecks and stiches, etc.  My family's total lifetime medical bills are probably hitting close to $700,000 dollars American.  So I know a little about it.

I pay a lot of money personally for medical costs / insurance. Between my work's insurance and medicade taxes it comes out to well over $550 a month.  (That's like $675 Canadian or $620 euros isn't it?).  I'll quote the Beatles on this one - "so you say you want a revolution, well, we'd all love to see the plan"

I've glad your feeling better... But at a Canadian, you wouldn't have had to pay a thing.  Regardless if you use the system or not.  Sure I pay for a system I may never use, but at least I know if I need to... it's there.
And even though we may pay more in taxes to have a public health care system.. your actually paying more out of pocket considering your Insurance & Medicade costs.



shmokes

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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #78 on: August 23, 2004, 04:24:41 pm »
even though we may pay more in taxes to have a public health care system.. your actually paying more out of pocket considering your Insurance & Medicade costs.

I already covered this, GGKoul.  You don't pay more in taxes for your healthcare system than we do.  You just have a system that doesn't suck.  You pay less in out-of-pocket AND you pay less in taxes.  Look at the first figures in those statistics I gave earlier.  The U.S. gov't spends more of our tax money, per capita, for healthcare than the Canadian government spends, per capita, on its citizens.  And the U.S. citizen, of course, still pays WAY MORE out-of-pocket for our healthcare than our northern neighbors.  It's ridiculous.  But the REALLY wierd thing is that we're actually PROUD of it.  We're proud of the fact that others pay one price for something and we pay three times as much for the same thing.  
« Last Edit: August 23, 2004, 04:27:36 pm by shmokes »
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Re:1000 Reasons not to vote for GW
« Reply #79 on: August 23, 2004, 07:56:56 pm »
Isn't the First Amendment great?  God bless the Second Amendment too.  Bush in '04.
What is that pappy?