If you eat real ice cream, you eat raw eggs

[Ummon]

Well, REAL ice cream is a little more specific - but in any case if you eat ice cream with real eggs in them, you're eating raw eggs. Ditto with mousse and other similar, non-cooked egg-based desserts. How come millions of people don't have salmonella?

[Felsir]

Because the chicken that lays the egg has to be infected with Salmonella first. In most countries Salmonella infected farm-animals have to be reported by law.

How come millions of people don't have salmonella?

16 million people are infected with salmonella each year (according to WHO). Many people are carrier as well (without developing symptoms such as fever).

[Ed_McCarron]

Or real Caesar salad, or real mayonnaise, or all kinds of desserts...  Its the rare egg that has salmonella to begin with, and the human immune system is a wonderful thing.

[patrickl]

Wiki: Egg (food)

A study by the U.S. Department of Agriculture in 2002 (Risk Analysis April 2002 22(2):203-18) suggests the problem is not as prevalent as once thought. It showed that of the 69 billion eggs produced annually only 2.3 million are contaminated with salmonella - equivalent to just one in every 30,000 eggs - thus showing that salmonella infection is quite rarely induced by eggs

Only if you leave the eggs laying around in hen's poop do they contract salmonella.

BTW Why this sudden shock about raw eggs in ice cream? I'd bet most ice creams don't use raw eggs anyway. More likely some sterilized egg subsitute.

[saint]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

[massive88]

If raw eggs are good enough for Rocky, they are good enough for me.

[ChadTower]

Man, can't tell you how many athletes I've seen eating raw eggs "because Rocky did it so it must work".  Never seems to occur to them that not only did he not have a way to cook them but he was also really really dumb... and it was just a movie anyway.

[Ed_McCarron]

Pretty sure they've all been zapped with radiation for the last decade as well, but google fails me beyond nutjobs bitching about it.

Yup.

[saint]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ALL eggs are pasteurized.  Period.

Really? What's your source for that? I haven't found anything definitive on the net, but I have found vendors specifically selling pasteurized raw eggs which leads me to believe most are not.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061202112651AAEpw5V

http://www.safeeggs.com/

The University of Minnesota seems not to agree with you either.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/00055.html

Eggnog may be safely made at home by using whole, liquid, or pasteurized eggs. Pasteurized eggs are found next to regular eggs at the store.

[FrizzleFried]

My ole man used to break a single egg and eat it raw every morning for years and years... still probably does it.  He's not dead yet.

[saint]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ALL eggs are pasteurized.  Period.

Really? What's your source for that? I haven't found anything definitive on the net, but I have found vendors specifically selling pasteurized raw eggs which leads me to believe most are not.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061202112651AAEpw5V

http://www.safeeggs.com/

The University of Minnesota seems not to agree with you either.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/00055.html

Eggnog may be safely made at home by using whole, liquid, or pasteurized eggs. Pasteurized eggs are found next to regular eggs at the store.

That was more negative than I meant it to sound. Still curious about your source.

[ChadTower]

Isn't pasteurization warming it up to 160 degrees?  In eggs I think they do that by immersion in water.  In milk, of course, you can just heat it.  Jim mentioned some sort of radiation. 

[ChadTower]

I'm just gonna slowly back away from this one, lest some egg farmers slit my throat in my sleep tonight.

[gnateye]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ding ding ding, you are correct sir.

[shardian]

For the record, Ice cream does not have eggs in it. FROZEN CUSTARD has eggs. The terms get interchanged quite regularly.
There is an ice cream place down by the in-laws that actually says frozen custard on their sign. It probably runs many potential customers off, because most people don't realize what it really is.

[saint]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ALL eggs are pasteurized.  Period.

So in my fridge I have two different brands. 4grain, and Farmer's Market. Neither is pasteurized.

http://ccfbrands.com/brands/farmers-market/

http://4grain.com/questions.html

Q: IS IT SAFE TO EAT RAW EGGS?

A: The risk of food poisoning from eggs is highest with raw and lightly-cooked dishes. It's best not to serve raw or lightly-cooked dishes made with eggs.

No mention of pasteurization here: http://www.incredibleegg.org/egg_facts_safety10.html

And the egg safety center says:
http://www.eggsafety.org/f_a_q.htm#9

Can shell eggs be pasteurized or irradiated to destroy Salmonella?
A processor can pasteurize shell eggs if FDA has approved the process. Pasteurized shell eggs are available in some areas in the U.S. Shell eggs have recently been approved for irradiation by the US Food and Drug Administration but are not yet available.

Back to Top

Are egg products pasteurized?
All egg products are required by law to be pasteurized.  Approximately one third of all eggs produced in the US today are broken and further processed to make egg products which are sold as retail or foodservice items or ingredients for commercial food manufacturers. These may be whole liquid egg, egg whites, or egg yolks, and may be liquid, frozen or dried. The safety of egg products is regulated by the Food Safety Inspection Service of the USDA and is ensured by mandatory pasteurization to destroy potentially harmful pathogens.  Egg products are readily available for food service facilities to use and offer a convenient alternative to using raw shell eggs when large quantities are needed.

Based on all of this, I would conjecture that most of the eggs you buy are not pasteurized. Egg products (removed from shell and then used in a food product) are likely to all be pasteurized.

[SavannahLion]

Well, REAL ice cream is a little more specific - but in any case if you eat ice cream with real eggs in them, you're eating raw eggs. Ditto with mousse and other similar, non-cooked egg-based desserts. How come millions of people don't have salmonella?

To come back to the question at hand.

Despite what the media likes to do, salmonella isn't exactly a common thing. The majority of salmonella cases in the U.S. are from food products that are processed on a large scale, such as in a restaurant, food processing plant, etc. The reasons vary but generally point towards poor handling procedures such as cross contamination. This generally holds true for other poisonings such as e-coli or staph.

If you keep a clean kitchen and take care to prevent cross contamination such as washing your hands between food handling and using separate utensils for cooked and raw food products (or meat vs vegetables, as the Jewish do) and practice the age old mantra of keeping cold foods cold and hot foods hot, you can minimize if not eliminate food born pathogens. It's not rocket science here.

Besides, most ice cream, even those that bill themselves as "real" don't use eggs anymore. Egg is a thickener in ice cream and there are a variety of alternate thickeners available, both "natural" and artificial.

My grandfather raised chickens and I used to keep chickens as pets, the worst thing I ever encountered was this:

[patrickl]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ALL eggs are pasteurized.  Period.

So in my fridge I have two different brands. 4grain, and Farmer's Market. Neither is pasteurized.

I assumed he meant all eggs that are used in a commercial food production proces.

Still, like I said before and SavannahLion said just now, are eggs really used in ice cream (in the broad sense of the term)? Home made ice cream recipes might call for raw eggs sometimes, but commercial ice cream is way too cheap to use fresh ingredients. In ice cream parlors I also doubt they use anything else but water/milk and some powder containing all other ingredients. You can even buy those (add a packet of gelato base and the desired flavor to milk or water and mix) Why would they go through the trouble of using real eggs?

Personally I use raw eggs in several types of ice creams (mostly gelato and sorbet) and in desserts like chocolate mousse and tiramisu. If one in 30,000 eggs is going to give me stomach troubles then fine. My local supermarket doesn't sell pasteurized eggs anymore. Guess there is no sense anymore since the risk of salmonella in eggs has been so much reduced over the last few decades.

There were some rumours about pig fat being used in ice cream. The manufacturers vehemently deny this, but I have my doubts.

[SavannahLion]

There were some rumours about pig fat being used in ice cream. The manufacturers vehemently deny this, but I have my doubts.

It's possible though probably not likely*. It would probably be cheaper to use vegetable oils. In any case, Companies are getting a bit... creative with their labeling. The best damn use of creative labeling is in dog food. Meat solids? WTF is meat solids and from what animal?!? Second to that is soda ingredients. Brominated vegetable oil? Typically, the vegetable oil derived from tree stumps (usually pine, but I've heard of other species being leveraged) then bromine is added.  Off the top of my head, pig fat can probably be creatively hidden behind milk fat, milk fat solids, or simply just fat solids. There's a new one I spotted on my ice cream last month (the container is gone now) but I believe they listed fat under a different labeling... I want to say it was modified fat solids or maybe it was modified fat blends... 

*Apparently pig fat was a common ingredient in soft serve ice cream about 70 years ago and a rumored ingredient in MickeyD's ice creams. I still think it's unlikely today, pig fat may be cheap, but crap vegetable oil blends are even cheaper.

[patrickl]

Lol, yeah it's amazing how creative they get in using cheaper alternatives.

The pig fat thing came up when a reporter investigated which products contain pig in some shape or form. Pig gelatine, pig fat, pig colagen and even pig hair is used in lots of products (toothpaste, bread, aspirine, coffee pads). Although indeed pig ingredients are becoming too expensive and are replaced by even cheaper alternatives (synthetic gelatine, vegetable oil etc)

[danny_galaga]

i saw a doco once on tv where they showed how long eggs are in circulation. for some reason, some eggs that WERE at the shop end up back at the farm or summink and then back to the shop, round and round for months!

[patrickl]

i saw a doco once on tv where they showed how long eggs are in circulation. for some reason, some eggs that WERE at the shop end up back at the farm or summink and then back to the shop, round and round for months!

That sounds unlikely. You mean to say that they remove the "good til" stamp? Otherwise they only have 3 weeks to move the eggs around (in the Netherlands eggs can only be sold 21 days after it comes out of the chicken).

[ChadTower]

My grandfather raised chickens and I used to keep chickens as pets, the worst thing I ever encountered was this:

We had chickens for a while when I was a kid... they're filthy, nasty, dirty creatures.  People make comments about pigs but chickens are so much worse.  They stink and somehow crap about 25x what they take in.

[shmokes]

My younger brother has chickens that just roam around his back yard.  The eggs they make are about 100x tastier than the ones you can buy at the store.

As for eating them raw, I do pretty frequently.  Any time I make a smoothie I put in a raw egg or two.  It makes it thicker and creamier and tastier.  And it adds protein. 

[Ummon]

Real ice cream has eggs in it. It'll say so. I buy Trader Joe's ice cream (which I suspect is being made by Double Rainbow, of which they used to carry and I used to buy before TJ's started it's own), and it says 'eggs yolks' on the package. Hell, even Breyer's says it has eggs in it....though I'd never buy it, and it's full of air, hence, despite the 'sales' the regular store has on it, it's actually the same price as real premium/super premium ice cream.

I was wondering about the irradiation thing. Wouldn't be surprised if regular stores have irradiated eggs. Also, Stallone really did all that training, so there may've been something to his diet.

[shmokes]

It's not rocket science.  Six eggs in a glass = protien shake.

[SavannahLion]

Real ice cream has eggs in it.

That depends on your definition of "real ice cream." Federal definition of ce cream is a little creepy, egg or no egg.

[danny_galaga]

i saw a doco once on tv where they showed how long eggs are in circulation. for some reason, some eggs that WERE at the shop end up back at the farm or summink and then back to the shop, round and round for months!

That sounds unlikely. You mean to say that they remove the "good til" stamp? Otherwise they only have 3 weeks to move the eggs around (in the Netherlands eggs can only be sold 21 days after it comes out of the chicken).

We are talking months! It may be something that only happened in Australia. Ill see if i can find out more...

[ark_ader]

I have been eating raw eggs for many years now, and I have had no ill effects.  I buy my eggs from a local butcher, and I know the farm where the product comes from.  All clean and hygienic.

Eggs are very good for you, and key to a good Atkins diet.  Now the hard part is getting the local restaurant to cook my steaks blue.  They flat out refuse, considering they get the same meat from the same butcher.  Go figure. 

[pinballwizard79]

this thread sucks by the way

[HaRuMaN]

cook my steaks blue

Blue?  What?

[massive88]

cook my steaks blue

Blue?  What?

Very rare, kinda like seared fish, only beefier.

[patrickl]

That picture doesn't show a blue steak! That looks like medium rare.

Blue is where they only singe the outside to kill the bacteria that are on the outside of the meat. It's put only a few seconds on the heat.

[HaRuMaN]

Hmm, I've never heard it called blue.

When I worked as a cook, I had someone ask for a steak "as rare as you can make it", so I singed the top, bottom, and sides for a grand total of less than 30 seconds touching heat.  It was still ice-cold in the middle.  I sent it out as a joke...

Their server came back later and told me the customer said "best steak they ever had!" 

[Ed_McCarron]

The local teppanyaki place does rare filet perfectly.  On for about 30 seconds, cut, season, on the plate.

Plus, I get my food before everyone else at the table.

[patrickl]

The local teppanyaki place does rare filet perfectly.  On for about 30 seconds, cut, season, on the plate.

Yeah, fillet steak in a teppanyaki restaurant is amazing.

The one locally here serves it "blue" (outside charred, but cold inside) or "pink" (slightly warmed up inside). If you want it done any longer the chef threatens to kill you.

Plus, I get my food before everyone else at the table.

Ehm?

[massive88]

Hmm, I've never heard it called blue.

When I worked as a cook, I had someone ask for a steak "as rare as you can make it", so I singed the top, bottom, and sides for a grand total of less than 30 seconds touching heat.  It was still ice-cold in the middle.  I sent it out as a joke...

Thats usually how I order my burgers at places like Chili's, which refuse to do anything less than medium.

Ive had this conversation at least 20 times.
"And how would you like it cooked?"
"As rare as you can."
"Is medium ok?"
"If thats as rare as you can do it."

[Hoopz]

I've heard the term "Black and Blue" to describe a steak that's seared at a very high temp for just a few seconds so it chars the outside but leaves it raw/rare inside.  A quick Google shows that some places in the States call it "Pittsburgh Rare" which is a term I wasn't aware of.

Sounds like it's all the same thing those regardless of who calls it what.

[Ed_McCarron]

Ehm?

What is "The letter after "L"? "

Oh, wait.  Theres 12 people seated around the grill.  I get my meat rare.  Everyone else wants medium.

When mines done, it goes on my plate.  Everyone else waits 3 more minutes for their steak.

[Blanka]

I believe salmonella is removed from all industrial raw-egg products nowadays.
And if it is in the ice-cream, it probably dies at -18 degrees. 
I don't know how good bacteria can recover from cryogenic situations.

[Ed_McCarron]

IMO, burgers should never be eaten less than medium UNLESS you watch them grind the meat.

Big hunks of meat - no bacteria inside.  Cook the outside, and all is good.
Little shreds all mashed together - tons of places for bacteria to go nuts.

[patrickl]

Ehm?

What is "The letter after "L"? "

Oh, wait.  Theres 12 people seated around the grill.  I get my meat rare.  Everyone else wants medium.

When mines done, it goes on my plate.  Everyone else waits 3 more minutes for their steak.

Ah lol. Where I go most people go for the blue. Sometimes a few women pick pink and I think that's why they made that color of "doneness" up since only sissies and women choose it.

[ark_ader]

Blue = 20 seconds each side.

Yum! 

[shmokes]

Ehm?

What is "The letter after "L"? "

Oh, wait.  Theres 12 people seated around the grill.  I get my meat rare.  Everyone else wants medium.

When mines done, it goes on my plate.  Everyone else waits 3 more minutes for their steak.

Ah lol. Where I go most people go for the blue. Sometimes a few women pick pink and I think that's why they made that color of "doneness" up since only sissies and women choose it.

LOL . . . you put the blue one on 30 seconds before the others are done so all the food comes up at once.  It makes no sense to put them all on at the same time if one person ordered blue.  If you do that, one person gets his food before everyone else at the table or (much more likely) it sits around waiting for the rest of the food to come up but it all still comes out to the table at the same time.

[patrickl]

Maybe you first should look into what teppanyaki is before you make claims about it?

[Ed_McCarron]

Maybe you first should look into what teppanyaki is before you make claims about it?

Nah.  Hes a larval lawyer.  Why bring fact into play? 

I pity the suckers that get chicken.  They gotta cook it super well done around here - takes forever.

Our place does salad, then fried rice and fried veggies.  Meat comes off the grill onto your plate as its done.  Then, they do the ubiquitous "open your mouth and catch the shrimp" thing.  I usually start with some sushi+maki and a Sapporo.

Now I'm hungry.  Dammit.

[SavannahLion]

I believe salmonella is removed from all industrial raw-egg products nowadays.
And if it is in the ice-cream, it probably dies at -18 degrees. 
I don't know how good bacteria can recover from cryogenic situations.

I don't know the specifics about salmonella's freezing tolerance, but as a general rule of thumb bacteria don't necessarily die from freezing. Certain types of bacteria will go into a sort of hibernation mode, some rare types continue to multiply (albeit very very slowly). I can't recall the lengths other bacteria will go to survive a freeze cycle, but there's quite list. That's why freezing tainted beef does jack ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to e-coli. You're still going to get sick if you don't cook it well enough.

[patrickl]

Then, they do the ubiquitous "open your mouth and catch the shrimp" thing.

They do that with fried egg here (rolled up and cut in slices)

Do they do the fried shrimp legs thing in the US too? They take the shell off the shrimp, serve you the shrimp and later they serve the flattened and fried shrimp legs. Actually quite tasty, but still, it's a bit of a gross thing to do.

First time I went to one of these places (in Amsterdam) I got a discount menu from a coupon. Still cost a fortune, but less than the other menus. Other people on our table got the deluxe menu (with half lobsters and such). It was seriously depressing sitting there waiting for the other people eating all their cool food while we were hungry getting basically a few small snacks until the chef finally served us a bowl of rice with egg.

My favorite course is the grilled eel with avocado mayonaise although the fillet steak with a heap of fried garlic is great too.

Anyway back to ice cream with (unpasteurized) eggs I guess ...

Which reminds me, the best ice cream is peanutbutter with cream (and some sugar, but usually US peanutbutter is quite sweet already). Put in the ice maker and done. No eggs to get sick from  

[shmokes]

Maybe you first should look into what teppanyaki is before you make claims about it?

Are you on the rag?

[patrickl]

Maybe you first should look into what teppanyaki is before you make claims about it?

Are you on the rag?

WTF? Twice in a row you make ridiculous statements on something you obviously know nothing about and then you try to make it my fault? Just take the shame.

[shmokes]

The royals?  I didn't make any ridiculous statements.  I know what they do (very little) and I think they are absurd people who hand the best job in the country down from parent to child, generation after generation.  They live lives of extravagance on the tax-payer's dime, but the tax-payer doesn't choose who gets to fill that role.  My opinion about your royals isn't ill-informed just because you have a crush on them.

As for this . . . my statement was apparently ill-informed.  I obviously don't know how a teppanayaki differs from a typical restaurant.  I don't deny that.  I asked if you were on the rag because you're acting like such a pissy little ---smurfette--- (in both threads). 

In a week or so, when the cramping has stopped, you can simply say, "That's not how a teppanyaki restaurant works.  In that sort of restaurant when you order your food blah blah blah . . ."

[boykster]

Why the big stink about raw eggs?

You can get food poisoning from pretty much ANYTHING if the food isn't handled properly.

[SavannahLion]

Which reminds me, the best ice cream is peanutbutter with cream (and some sugar, but usually US peanutbutter is quite sweet already). Put in the ice maker and done. No eggs to get sick from  

To toss in a crushing disappointment...

There was a recent recall on peanut butter due to... what was it? Oh right, Salmonella!

I'm just being cheeky. 

Why the big stink about raw eggs?

You can get food poisoning from pretty much ANYTHING if the food isn't handled properly.

We live in a pretty ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up society where it's becoming more or less common to find weird ---Cleveland steamer--- in foods. Salmonella in peanuts. e-coli in lettuce. Tape worm in carrots. I'm just waiting for the day Snickers bars are going to be tainted with HIV. 

I remember in high school a couple of vegans used to brag that they'll never get sick from e-coli or Salmonella because those are "meat" based illnesses. I so want to find out where they are and laugh in their faces....

What did George Carlin used to say? "Take a ---smurfing--- chance?"

[patrickl]

The royals?  I didn't make any ridiculous statements. 

Yes you did.

I know what they do (very little)

Well that's where you are wrong. Or should I read that as that you know very little about what they do? If so then you would be right.

and I think they are absurd people who hand the best job in the country down from parent to child, generation after generation.  They live lives of extravagance on the tax-payer's dime, but the tax-payer doesn't choose who gets to fill that role.  My opinion about your royals isn't ill-informed just because you have a crush on them.

Absurd, antiquated, silly or whatever derogatory term you feel the need to use to classify them, fine, "useless" or "stupid" is simply wrong and shows that you are ill informed about the positive sides of a royal family. Even after I indicated that there was one. I guess you try deny there is a positive side solely because they are not elected. Probably just to save face that you claimed there wasn't one at all. Ah well.

I asked if you were on the rag because you're acting like such a pissy little ---smurfette--- (in both threads).

Pissy ---smurfette---? I haven't said a a pissy thing. You're the one calling people retarded at random putting multiple expletives in every post. I simply explained the situation. That you see a pissy thing and "panties in a bunch" in everything is maybe more an indicator of your mood?

Now get over your embarassment that, in your ignorance, you were utterly wrong twice in a row and stop sulking. Geez.

[patrickl]

Which reminds me, the best ice cream is peanutbutter with cream (and some sugar, but usually US peanutbutter is quite sweet already). Put in the ice maker and done. No eggs to get sick from  

To toss in a crushing disappointment...

There was a recent recall on peanut butter due to... what was it? Oh right, Salmonella!

I'm just being cheeky. 

Wow, that was pretty serious. People died even. Salmonella in the peanutbutter happened in the Netherlands once too. On a much smaller scale though. Don't think anyone actually got sick. IIRC they recalled from the stores quite quickly.

[shmokes]

Absurd, antiquated, silly or whatever derogatory term you feel the need to use to classify them, fine, "useless" or "stupid" is simply wrong and shows that you are ill informed about the positive sides of a royal family. Even after I indicated that there was one.

Patrick, you're quoting the word "useless" without the qualifying phrase that came immediately before it.  I said, "such a useless resource."  Now I know that if used in an absolute sense "useless" is a superlative, but clearly I wasn't using it that way.  "Such a useless resource . . ." means that some some things are more useless than others.  I had already acknowledged that they do things, for example I asked why I would want someone who had the position based on birth rather than merit advising my prime minister.

The point is, my position on royal families is justified and reasonable.  Reasonable people may disagree, but it's not as though I've put no thought into the position.  More importantly, I'm not insulting you anymore than your VERY frequent criticisms of US policy are meant to directly insult me, as an American.  So there's just no reason for you to take it all personally.  And god knows there's no reason for you to act bitchy toward me in a completely unrelated thread because you're feelings are still hurt.
 

[patrickl]

How was I insulted? How was I bitchy? I simply stated that you should have tried to understand what teppanyaki is before you replied, because your statement indicated that you didn't know.

It's the same thing with the royal families. The fact that you don't know what the advantages of having a royal family are doesn't mean there aren't any. There are plenty and they come a lot cheaper than even a single foreign trip of a US president.

Simply put when you think everyone else is moron, chances are that you are the one who is the moron. I guess you will call that bitchy again, but seriously. When you feel the urge to put someone in their place for being stupid, think things through before you do. You might be the one who is wrong. Of course you can whine and play semantics to cover up the embarrassment, but it's better to prevent the situation to begin with.

[saint]

Simply put when you think everyone else is moron, chances are that you are the one who is the moron.

Must stop tempting me with custom titles!

[HaRuMaN]

It's the same thing with the royal families. The fact that you don't know what the advantages of having a royal family are doesn't mean there aren't any. There are plenty and they come a lot cheaper than even a single foreign trip of a US president.

I'd like to see the numbers to back up that statement.

[shmokes]

How was I insulted? How was I bitchy?

Let's see . . . where did that thread take a turn for the ugly?  Oh yeah . . . it was here:

Well . . . just to be clear, Obama is the leader of our country.  He is not just a member of royalty that hs been stripped of all actual authority.  So it's not really a fair comparison.

Don't be pathetic . . .

That was followed by something to the effect of, "You're following in pindouche's foot steps of 'arrogance in ignorance'..."  And then your bitchy, "Do your research before making claims," comment.  You can characterize it as a friendly statement all you want, but all anybody has to do is read the post to see that you were being an ---uvula---.  And it was pretty obvious why.  Hell, just look at your next post:

WTF? Twice in a row [first time being the royal family dispute] you make ridiculous statements on something you obviously know nothing about and then you try to make it my fault? Just take the shame.

[shmokes]

Simply put when you think everyone else is moron, chances are that you are the one who is the moron.

BTW, where the ---fudgesicle--- is this coming from?  When have I ever said that you or anybody else here (besides Dartful) is a moron?  And even with Dartful I'm totally pleasant with him outside P&R where he only goes to troll.  You seriously ought to unbunch your panties, patrick. 

[ChadTower]

Simply put when you think everyone else is moron, chances are that you are the one who is the moron.

Must stop tempting me with custom titles!

That must be one of those titles the bearer is entitled to by birth.


EDIT:  shmokes' moron chronicles.  This does not include crazy, insane, idiot, or anything else other than moron.

[HaRuMaN]

your link doesn't work

[ChadTower]

Bah.  The url given by the search engine doesn't include search terms.  Do a forum search on "moron" posted by shmokes and you'll get quite a few hits.   

[shmokes]

And you will see exactly what I said.  Dartful seems to be the only one here that I call a moron (well, there was Hemi, too, but nobody could fault me for that ).

[patrickl]

How was I insulted? How was I bitchy?

Let's see . . . where did that thread take a turn for the ugly?  Oh yeah . . . it was here:

Well . . . just to be clear, Obama is the leader of our country.  He is not just a member of royalty that hs been stripped of all actual authority.  So it's not really a fair comparison.

Don't be pathetic . . .

Yeah, well you were being pathetic. Trying to twist the debate around.
shmokes: The queen gets $80 million and the PM gets only $400K
patrickl: You're comparing overall cost including maintenance on government property and travel expenses to a single salary
shmokes: Well it's not a fair compariosn anyway since the queen is stripped of all authority


Seriously WTF? You make the comparison, then I point out it's ridiculous and then you try to weazel your way out of it by saying it's an unfair comparison anyway. That's ... well uhm ... pathetic.

[patrickl]

Simply put when you think everyone else is moron, chances are that you are the one who is the moron.

BTW, where the ---fudgesicle--- is this coming from?  When have I ever said that you or anybody else here (besides Dartful) is a moron?  And even with Dartful I'm totally pleasant with him outside P&R where he only goes to troll.  You seriously ought to unbunch your panties, patrick. 

Yeah, throw another hissy fit. Go ahead, it's your day, why not.

Seriously, I explained the meaning of that line in the few sentences that follow it ...

[HaRuMaN]

Looks like another lonely Friday night for our european friend, eh? 
 
Honestly, the problem with western europe is all the hardworking and/or intelligent people that weren't already rich fled that continent for America 100 years ago.  All that remains are descendants of the dregs and it really rears its face online.   

Frankly, that's why they cling to quaint traditions - it reminds them of a happier time in their history.

Man, that's harsh!  but funny!

[shmokes]

Yeah, well you were being pathetic. Trying to twist the debate around.
shmokes: The queen gets $80 million and the PM gets only $400K
patrickl: You're comparing overall cost including maintenance on government property and travel expenses to a single salary
shmokes: Well it's not a fair compariosn anyway since the queen is stripped of all authority


Seriously WTF? You make the comparison, then I point out it's ridiculous and then you try to weazel your way out of it by saying it's an unfair comparison anyway. That's ... well uhm ... pathetic.

patrick, please tell me you're doing that from faulty memory rather than just being dishonest.  Our conversation went nothing like that.  Try something a bit more like this (God, this is retarded):

patrickl: I don't think having the role a monarch plays filled with an unelected person to be worse than having the position filled through an election.
shmokes: I think it's far worse.  Doesn't matter how much of a --cream-filled twinkie-- he is, he gets the job.  And the extravagant lifestyles they lead are an absurd burden on taxpayers.
patrickl: You underestimate how hard the Royals' jobs are.  And much of their costs goes toward maintaining their lavish estates (which are technically owned by the government, though can only be used by royalty).  How much does Obama's lifestyle cost you?
shmokes: Comparing the cost of Obama with the cost of the Royals is not really a fair comparison because of the enormous difference in their respective levels of responsibility, and the fact that Obama is chosen by the people who have to pay for him, rather than having the lifelong right to those benefits at the moment of his birth.  With that said, here are some of his benefits and costs to our taxpayers . . . blah blah blah.
patrickl: Don't be pathetic.  What can Obama do without the approval of Congress?  Does that make him useless?
pinballjim: Actually the president is incredibly powerful, for these two reasons.
patrickl: Those are two outlandish constructions, pindouche. [note: FWIW, I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this]
shmokes: Um . . . Obama is also extraordinarily powerful for a whole bunch of other obvious reasons such as blah blah blah blah.
patrickl: Look, I'm just saying that having a Royal family is awesome, though I will admit that old-lady-Royal needs to step aside so boy-Royal can become King.
shmokes: Why.  What's so great about him?  Why should he be king?
patrickl: I'm saying that he should do what Royals do.
shmokes: Okay . . . what are royals?  
patrickl: [crickets]


I think you'll admit that's a pretty fair assessment of our conversation.  It's utterly incompatible with the one you presented above.  

[patrickl]

I think you'll admit that's a pretty fair assessment of our conversation.  It's utterly incompatible with the one you presented above.  

Perhaps of the whole conversation. I can't be bothered to read it all to be honest, but I do notice that you completely misrepresented the "pathetic" quote.

The exact reason why I called your twisting the debate pathetic was in those quotes that I posted. It's a rather literal abstract of the 2 posts before that quote.

[Ummon]

this thread sucks by the way

Hahahahahahhaah.


Blue?...freaking Ausssies, you can just figure.  Over here I've heard it described as 'cut the horns off and throw it on the plate!', but essentially it's just 'rare'.  Medium-rare means pink and you can see the grain of the meat. Rare means it looks like gelatin. That picture above is in-between.

Thats usually how I order my burgers at places like Chili's, which refuse to do anything less than medium.

See, now, I've had the exact opposite experience at places like Chili's.  They keep the ovens too hot so they sear the hell out of your steaks but the inside is raw. 

I've sent back a steak twice at one place and it was still bleeding - my wife wanted it well done, the cook finally comes out and says, oh well, I guess it's still a little medium. 

They were out of business 2 months later, thankfully.

Generally, I'm so unhappy with the way most steakhouses do it I just cook them myself.

I wouldn't go to Chili's for a steak.

Looks like another lonely Friday night for our european friend, eh?  
 
Honestly, the problem with western europe is all the hardworking and/or intelligent people that weren't already rich fled that continent for America 100 years ago.  All that remains are descendants of the dregs and it really rears its face online.  

Frankly, that's why they cling to quaint traditions - it reminds them of a happier time in their history.

Man, that's harsh!  but funny!

Hahhahahahah, no ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Laughs a bunch, ya all have really taken off in the thread. Hey, Slayer's Epidemic just came on...."death machine infests my corpse to bee"....heheh.

[massive88]

I wouldn't go to Chili's for a steak.

Truth rears its ugly head!

IMO, burgers should never be eaten less than medium UNLESS you watch them grind the meat.

Big hunks of meat - no bacteria inside.  Cook the outside, and all is good.
Little shreds all mashed together - tons of places for bacteria to go nuts.

You and Chilis agree then!  I however want my meat rarer.  I also eat hamburger meat raw when preparing food.  Perhaps when Im elderly and weak Ill stop, but it tastes too good now.

[shmokes]

I think you'll admit that's a pretty fair assessment of our conversation.  It's utterly incompatible with the one you presented above.  

Perhaps of the whole conversation. I can't be bothered to read it all to be honest, but I do notice that you completely misrepresented the "pathetic" quote.

The exact reason why I called your twisting the debate pathetic was in those quotes that I posted. It's a rather literal abstract of the 2 posts before that quote.

This is exactly what you said:

Don't be pathetic, there is more to it than authority. Besides, how much can Obama do without approval from congress? Does that make him mostly useless too? 

I didn't misrepresent anything.  And since I have no idea how much the PM makes, I doubt I said anything about him making $400k.

[patrickl]

You claim I said "Don't be pathetic." (freestanding uncalled for insult)

I said "Don't be pathetic, there is more to it than authority." (crying foul over a lame attempt to twist the debate on a single word)

Seriously, you are like a women scorned. What is your problem? Just leave me alone with your bitching and go annoy someone else.

[shmokes]

You claim I said "Don't be pathetic." (freestanding uncalled for insult)

WTF? A freestanding uncalled for insult.  How was it freestanding?  I presented it as an ongoing conversation.  It was a response to what I said above.  You're really grasping at straws here. 

As for attempting to twist the debate on a single word, again, wtf are you talking about?  I just said that Obama's position is not very comparable to the Queen because the Queen has been stripped of all her authority, while Obama has a great deal of it.  How is that twisting the debate.  In fact, my position from the very beginning has been that the Royals are a royal waste of money, because they barely serve a purpose and cost an arm and a leg and don't deserve what they have?  Pointing out that rather substantial difference between the Queen and Obama comports exactly with what I had been saying all along.  And even still, I only even mentioned the poor comparison as an aside.  In spite of thinking it was a bad comparison I nevertheless went on to answer your question about how much he costs the US.

I'm not following you, btw.  You just got all PMSey on me when I said something without knowing about whatchamacallit special restaurant cos you were still fuming about my disparaging your royal idols.  I'm not going to avoid threads that you're in, if that's what you mean.  Just try to contain yourself till the cramps subside and everything should be fine.

[Namco]

This discussion of eggs has quickly turned into one big century egg.

[ark_ader]

You claim I said "Don't be pathetic." (freestanding uncalled for insult)

I said "Don't be pathetic, there is more to it than authority." (crying foul over a lame attempt to twist the debate on a single word)

Seriously, you are like a women scorned. What is your problem? Just leave me alone with your bitching and go annoy someone else.

Just ignore Shmokes even though he won't go away eventually.  Chill it down Patrick.  Think of a nice juicy blue steak....



Feel better now?

[Ed_McCarron]

This discussion of eggs has quickly turned into one big century egg.

It stinks?

[shmokes]

It's revolting?

[patrickl]

I'm not following you, btw.  You just got all PMSey on me when I said something without knowing about whatchamacallit special restaurant cos you were still fuming about my disparaging your royal idols.  I'm not going to avoid threads that you're in, if that's what you mean.  Just try to contain yourself till the cramps subside and everything should be fine.

The only thing you can accuse me of is that I didn't take the time to attempt to educate you on what teppanyaki is.

Indeed that is a crossover from the other thread where you demonstrated that you don't want to learn anything, you simply want to be right. Doesn;t matter how you need to twist a debate around, but you must. be. right. I could foresee another pathetic twisting debate going from what the definition of "to the table" is or how a teppanyaki restaurant could technically serve foods at reasonably similar times. Just so you would be right after all.

Seriously, the proper reply to my post would have been: "Indeed sorry, I didn't know what teppanyaki is so I look a bit silly now, but that's my own fault. Sorry Ed, for questioning the validity of your real life example in my moment of ignorance. I will strife to educate myself about subjects before I post random opinions about them. Again, I humbly apologize. Yours truly, shmokes"

Now get over yourself. You've been caught with your pants down. Big deal. You can ---smurfette--- about the person pointing out that you were with your pants down, or you can question yourself why you were with your pants down. Please try to do the latter for a change.

[patrickl]

Chill it down Patrick.  Think of a nice juicy blue steak....



Feel better now?

No, now I feel hungry 

[danny_galaga]

About and eggs. There are different health issues with them. No point comparing. Salmonella apparently is one for eggs(i wasn't aware that raw eggs were dangerous). Raw steak, the major risk is worms i believe. And TB for game meat, so i've heard...

[shmokes]

Seriously, the proper reply to my post would have been: "Indeed sorry, I didn't know what teppanyaki is so I look a bit silly now, but that's my own fault. Sorry Ed, for questioning the validity of your real life example in my moment of ignorance. I will strife to educate myself about subjects before I post random opinions about them. Again, I humbly apologize. Yours truly, shmokes"

LMAO.  A bit sensitive, aren't you?

Ed, please accept my humblest apologies.  I had no idea that my abject ignorance on the subject of teppanyaki had the potential to cause you such grief.  I feel awful about this; really, just miserable.  From now on I will never say anything without googling the subject first, lest I let on that I don't know everything about everything (a crime of the highest degree, to be sure).  If there's anything I can do to lessen the blow of my despicable behavior -- to help you through what must be a very difficult time for you, please don't hesitate to ask.  You have a good friend in patrickl, looking out for you the way he does.  Cherish him.

[Ed_McCarron]

Ed, please accept my humblest apologies.  I had no idea that my abject ignorance on the subject of teppanyaki had the potential to cause you such grief.  I feel awful about this; really, just miserable.  From now on I will never say anything without googling the subject first, lest I let on that I don't know everything about everything (a crime of the highest degree, to be sure).  If there's anything I can do to lessen the blow of my despicable behavior -- to help you through what must be a very difficult time for you, please don't hesitate to ask.  You have a good friend in patrickl, looking out for you the way he does.  Cherish him.

Well, I guess I'll let you slide this time.  For your penance, you must recite 3 "Hail Frizzles" and one "Our Wunder."   

[patrickl]

LMAO.  A bit sensitive, aren't you?

Not at all. I'm really at a loss where you keep getting that from. Still, 3 "Hail Frizzles" and one "Our Wunder" sounds about right.