If you eat real ice cream, you eat raw eggs

[Ummon]

Well, REAL ice cream is a little more specific - but in any case if you eat ice cream with real eggs in them, you're eating raw eggs. Ditto with mousse and other similar, non-cooked egg-based desserts. How come millions of people don't have salmonella?

[Felsir]

Because the chicken that lays the egg has to be infected with Salmonella first. In most countries Salmonella infected farm-animals have to be reported by law.

How come millions of people don't have salmonella?

16 million people are infected with salmonella each year (according to WHO). Many people are carrier as well (without developing symptoms such as fever).

[Ed_McCarron]

Or real Caesar salad, or real mayonnaise, or all kinds of desserts...  Its the rare egg that has salmonella to begin with, and the human immune system is a wonderful thing.

[patrickl]

Wiki: Egg (food)

A study by the U.S. Department of Agriculture in 2002 (Risk Analysis April 2002 22(2):203-18) suggests the problem is not as prevalent as once thought. It showed that of the 69 billion eggs produced annually only 2.3 million are contaminated with salmonella - equivalent to just one in every 30,000 eggs - thus showing that salmonella infection is quite rarely induced by eggs

Only if you leave the eggs laying around in hen's poop do they contract salmonella.

BTW Why this sudden shock about raw eggs in ice cream? I'd bet most ice creams don't use raw eggs anyway. More likely some sterilized egg subsitute.

[saint]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

[massive88]

If raw eggs are good enough for Rocky, they are good enough for me.

[ChadTower]

Man, can't tell you how many athletes I've seen eating raw eggs "because Rocky did it so it must work".  Never seems to occur to them that not only did he not have a way to cook them but he was also really really dumb... and it was just a movie anyway.

[Ed_McCarron]

Pretty sure they've all been zapped with radiation for the last decade as well, but google fails me beyond nutjobs bitching about it.

Yup.

[saint]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ALL eggs are pasteurized.  Period.

Really? What's your source for that? I haven't found anything definitive on the net, but I have found vendors specifically selling pasteurized raw eggs which leads me to believe most are not.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061202112651AAEpw5V

http://www.safeeggs.com/

The University of Minnesota seems not to agree with you either.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/00055.html

Eggnog may be safely made at home by using whole, liquid, or pasteurized eggs. Pasteurized eggs are found next to regular eggs at the store.

[FrizzleFried]

My ole man used to break a single egg and eat it raw every morning for years and years... still probably does it.  He's not dead yet.

[saint]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ALL eggs are pasteurized.  Period.

Really? What's your source for that? I haven't found anything definitive on the net, but I have found vendors specifically selling pasteurized raw eggs which leads me to believe most are not.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061202112651AAEpw5V

http://www.safeeggs.com/

The University of Minnesota seems not to agree with you either.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/00055.html

Eggnog may be safely made at home by using whole, liquid, or pasteurized eggs. Pasteurized eggs are found next to regular eggs at the store.

That was more negative than I meant it to sound. Still curious about your source.

[ChadTower]

Isn't pasteurization warming it up to 160 degrees?  In eggs I think they do that by immersion in water.  In milk, of course, you can just heat it.  Jim mentioned some sort of radiation. 

[ChadTower]

I'm just gonna slowly back away from this one, lest some egg farmers slit my throat in my sleep tonight.

[gnateye]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ding ding ding, you are correct sir.

[shardian]

For the record, Ice cream does not have eggs in it. FROZEN CUSTARD has eggs. The terms get interchanged quite regularly.
There is an ice cream place down by the in-laws that actually says frozen custard on their sign. It probably runs many potential customers off, because most people don't realize what it really is.

[saint]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ALL eggs are pasteurized.  Period.

So in my fridge I have two different brands. 4grain, and Farmer's Market. Neither is pasteurized.

http://ccfbrands.com/brands/farmers-market/

http://4grain.com/questions.html

Q: IS IT SAFE TO EAT RAW EGGS?

A: The risk of food poisoning from eggs is highest with raw and lightly-cooked dishes. It's best not to serve raw or lightly-cooked dishes made with eggs.

No mention of pasteurization here: http://www.incredibleegg.org/egg_facts_safety10.html

And the egg safety center says:
http://www.eggsafety.org/f_a_q.htm#9

Can shell eggs be pasteurized or irradiated to destroy Salmonella?
A processor can pasteurize shell eggs if FDA has approved the process. Pasteurized shell eggs are available in some areas in the U.S. Shell eggs have recently been approved for irradiation by the US Food and Drug Administration but are not yet available.

Back to Top

Are egg products pasteurized?
All egg products are required by law to be pasteurized.  Approximately one third of all eggs produced in the US today are broken and further processed to make egg products which are sold as retail or foodservice items or ingredients for commercial food manufacturers. These may be whole liquid egg, egg whites, or egg yolks, and may be liquid, frozen or dried. The safety of egg products is regulated by the Food Safety Inspection Service of the USDA and is ensured by mandatory pasteurization to destroy potentially harmful pathogens.  Egg products are readily available for food service facilities to use and offer a convenient alternative to using raw shell eggs when large quantities are needed.

Based on all of this, I would conjecture that most of the eggs you buy are not pasteurized. Egg products (removed from shell and then used in a food product) are likely to all be pasteurized.

[SavannahLion]

Well, REAL ice cream is a little more specific - but in any case if you eat ice cream with real eggs in them, you're eating raw eggs. Ditto with mousse and other similar, non-cooked egg-based desserts. How come millions of people don't have salmonella?

To come back to the question at hand.

Despite what the media likes to do, salmonella isn't exactly a common thing. The majority of salmonella cases in the U.S. are from food products that are processed on a large scale, such as in a restaurant, food processing plant, etc. The reasons vary but generally point towards poor handling procedures such as cross contamination. This generally holds true for other poisonings such as e-coli or staph.

If you keep a clean kitchen and take care to prevent cross contamination such as washing your hands between food handling and using separate utensils for cooked and raw food products (or meat vs vegetables, as the Jewish do) and practice the age old mantra of keeping cold foods cold and hot foods hot, you can minimize if not eliminate food born pathogens. It's not rocket science here.

Besides, most ice cream, even those that bill themselves as "real" don't use eggs anymore. Egg is a thickener in ice cream and there are a variety of alternate thickeners available, both "natural" and artificial.

My grandfather raised chickens and I used to keep chickens as pets, the worst thing I ever encountered was this:

[patrickl]

I believe they're probably pasteurized raw eggs?

ALL eggs are pasteurized.  Period.

So in my fridge I have two different brands. 4grain, and Farmer's Market. Neither is pasteurized.

I assumed he meant all eggs that are used in a commercial food production proces.

Still, like I said before and SavannahLion said just now, are eggs really used in ice cream (in the broad sense of the term)? Home made ice cream recipes might call for raw eggs sometimes, but commercial ice cream is way too cheap to use fresh ingredients. In ice cream parlors I also doubt they use anything else but water/milk and some powder containing all other ingredients. You can even buy those (add a packet of gelato base and the desired flavor to milk or water and mix) Why would they go through the trouble of using real eggs?

Personally I use raw eggs in several types of ice creams (mostly gelato and sorbet) and in desserts like chocolate mousse and tiramisu. If one in 30,000 eggs is going to give me stomach troubles then fine. My local supermarket doesn't sell pasteurized eggs anymore. Guess there is no sense anymore since the risk of salmonella in eggs has been so much reduced over the last few decades.

There were some rumours about pig fat being used in ice cream. The manufacturers vehemently deny this, but I have my doubts.

[SavannahLion]

There were some rumours about pig fat being used in ice cream. The manufacturers vehemently deny this, but I have my doubts.

It's possible though probably not likely*. It would probably be cheaper to use vegetable oils. In any case, Companies are getting a bit... creative with their labeling. The best damn use of creative labeling is in dog food. Meat solids? WTF is meat solids and from what animal?!? Second to that is soda ingredients. Brominated vegetable oil? Typically, the vegetable oil derived from tree stumps (usually pine, but I've heard of other species being leveraged) then bromine is added.  Off the top of my head, pig fat can probably be creatively hidden behind milk fat, milk fat solids, or simply just fat solids. There's a new one I spotted on my ice cream last month (the container is gone now) but I believe they listed fat under a different labeling... I want to say it was modified fat solids or maybe it was modified fat blends... 

*Apparently pig fat was a common ingredient in soft serve ice cream about 70 years ago and a rumored ingredient in MickeyD's ice creams. I still think it's unlikely today, pig fat may be cheap, but crap vegetable oil blends are even cheaper.

[patrickl]

Lol, yeah it's amazing how creative they get in using cheaper alternatives.

The pig fat thing came up when a reporter investigated which products contain pig in some shape or form. Pig gelatine, pig fat, pig colagen and even pig hair is used in lots of products (toothpaste, bread, aspirine, coffee pads). Although indeed pig ingredients are becoming too expensive and are replaced by even cheaper alternatives (synthetic gelatine, vegetable oil etc)

[danny_galaga]

i saw a doco once on tv where they showed how long eggs are in circulation. for some reason, some eggs that WERE at the shop end up back at the farm or summink and then back to the shop, round and round for months!

[patrickl]

i saw a doco once on tv where they showed how long eggs are in circulation. for some reason, some eggs that WERE at the shop end up back at the farm or summink and then back to the shop, round and round for months!

That sounds unlikely. You mean to say that they remove the "good til" stamp? Otherwise they only have 3 weeks to move the eggs around (in the Netherlands eggs can only be sold 21 days after it comes out of the chicken).

[ChadTower]

My grandfather raised chickens and I used to keep chickens as pets, the worst thing I ever encountered was this:

We had chickens for a while when I was a kid... they're filthy, nasty, dirty creatures.  People make comments about pigs but chickens are so much worse.  They stink and somehow crap about 25x what they take in.

[shmokes]

My younger brother has chickens that just roam around his back yard.  The eggs they make are about 100x tastier than the ones you can buy at the store.

As for eating them raw, I do pretty frequently.  Any time I make a smoothie I put in a raw egg or two.  It makes it thicker and creamier and tastier.  And it adds protein. 

[Ummon]

Real ice cream has eggs in it. It'll say so. I buy Trader Joe's ice cream (which I suspect is being made by Double Rainbow, of which they used to carry and I used to buy before TJ's started it's own), and it says 'eggs yolks' on the package. Hell, even Breyer's says it has eggs in it....though I'd never buy it, and it's full of air, hence, despite the 'sales' the regular store has on it, it's actually the same price as real premium/super premium ice cream.

I was wondering about the irradiation thing. Wouldn't be surprised if regular stores have irradiated eggs. Also, Stallone really did all that training, so there may've been something to his diet.

[shmokes]

It's not rocket science.  Six eggs in a glass = protien shake.

[SavannahLion]

Real ice cream has eggs in it.

That depends on your definition of "real ice cream." Federal definition of ce cream is a little creepy, egg or no egg.

[danny_galaga]

i saw a doco once on tv where they showed how long eggs are in circulation. for some reason, some eggs that WERE at the shop end up back at the farm or summink and then back to the shop, round and round for months!

That sounds unlikely. You mean to say that they remove the "good til" stamp? Otherwise they only have 3 weeks to move the eggs around (in the Netherlands eggs can only be sold 21 days after it comes out of the chicken).

We are talking months! It may be something that only happened in Australia. Ill see if i can find out more...

[ark_ader]

I have been eating raw eggs for many years now, and I have had no ill effects.  I buy my eggs from a local butcher, and I know the farm where the product comes from.  All clean and hygienic.

Eggs are very good for you, and key to a good Atkins diet.  Now the hard part is getting the local restaurant to cook my steaks blue.  They flat out refuse, considering they get the same meat from the same butcher.  Go figure. 

[pinballwizard79]

this thread sucks by the way

[HaRuMaN]

cook my steaks blue

Blue?  What?

[massive88]

cook my steaks blue

Blue?  What?

Very rare, kinda like seared fish, only beefier.

[patrickl]

That picture doesn't show a blue steak! That looks like medium rare.

Blue is where they only singe the outside to kill the bacteria that are on the outside of the meat. It's put only a few seconds on the heat.

[HaRuMaN]

Hmm, I've never heard it called blue.

When I worked as a cook, I had someone ask for a steak "as rare as you can make it", so I singed the top, bottom, and sides for a grand total of less than 30 seconds touching heat.  It was still ice-cold in the middle.  I sent it out as a joke...

Their server came back later and told me the customer said "best steak they ever had!" 

[Ed_McCarron]

The local teppanyaki place does rare filet perfectly.  On for about 30 seconds, cut, season, on the plate.

Plus, I get my food before everyone else at the table.

[patrickl]

The local teppanyaki place does rare filet perfectly.  On for about 30 seconds, cut, season, on the plate.

Yeah, fillet steak in a teppanyaki restaurant is amazing.

The one locally here serves it "blue" (outside charred, but cold inside) or "pink" (slightly warmed up inside). If you want it done any longer the chef threatens to kill you.

Plus, I get my food before everyone else at the table.

Ehm?

[massive88]

Hmm, I've never heard it called blue.

When I worked as a cook, I had someone ask for a steak "as rare as you can make it", so I singed the top, bottom, and sides for a grand total of less than 30 seconds touching heat.  It was still ice-cold in the middle.  I sent it out as a joke...

Thats usually how I order my burgers at places like Chili's, which refuse to do anything less than medium.

Ive had this conversation at least 20 times.
"And how would you like it cooked?"
"As rare as you can."
"Is medium ok?"
"If thats as rare as you can do it."

[Hoopz]

I've heard the term "Black and Blue" to describe a steak that's seared at a very high temp for just a few seconds so it chars the outside but leaves it raw/rare inside.  A quick Google shows that some places in the States call it "Pittsburgh Rare" which is a term I wasn't aware of.

Sounds like it's all the same thing those regardless of who calls it what.

[Ed_McCarron]

Ehm?

What is "The letter after "L"? "

Oh, wait.  Theres 12 people seated around the grill.  I get my meat rare.  Everyone else wants medium.

When mines done, it goes on my plate.  Everyone else waits 3 more minutes for their steak.

[Blanka]

I believe salmonella is removed from all industrial raw-egg products nowadays.
And if it is in the ice-cream, it probably dies at -18 degrees. 
I don't know how good bacteria can recover from cryogenic situations.