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Author Topic: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors  (Read 21083 times)

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Ginsu Victim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2009, 05:05:54 pm »
Quote
You can't seem to get your mind around that LCD's are true 120hz.  

Only the more expensive ones. The overwhelming majority are 60hz.

One way to further improve the effective refresh rate is to use "super-sampling", and is becoming increasingly common on high-end sets. Since the blurring of the motion occurs during the transition from one state to another, this can be reduced by doubling the refresh rate of the LCD panel, and building intermediate frames using various motion compensation techniques. This smoothes out the transitions, and means the backlighting is turned on only when the transistions are settled. A number of high-end sets offer 120 Hz (in North America) or 100 Hz (in Europe) refresh rates using this technique.

Jack Burton

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2009, 05:19:35 pm »
I kind of look forward to the future scarcity of Cathode Ray Tubes's.   ;D

It will be interesting to see the lengths that people will go to put a scavenge a proper CRT and then possibly manufacture completely new chassis for them.   It'll be a whole new level of work towards authenticity in our  hobby. 

Even now, I respect a guy who has restored an OEM CRT more than a guy like me who is using a completely period incorrect CRT in his cabinet.  After all, all CRT's are not created equal, and what I have in my cab (a 15khz capable PC monitor) was simply not available when the games were new. 

CheffoJeffo

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2009, 05:21:01 pm »
What annoys me the most is when I obviously got alot of information 100% correct(which is why Blanka threw a fit and deleted his posts) was I given credit...HELL NO.    Lets see if you can do the same as I move on to each and every one of your posts.

That isn't what happened at all.

What happened is that Blanka gave you correct and detailed technical information, you repeatedly told him that he was wrong, and then he gave up trying to get you to listen.

For my part, I have always given you FULL credit -- when you suggested that nobody designed sprites with colour bleed in mind, I gave you full credit. When you suggested that monitors were designed around programming limitations, I gave you full credit. When you confuse such basic issues as scan and refresh rates, I give you full credit.

My only arguement is that is twice the refresh rate which means it could draw a frame of flicker if that desired...or it could draw two.   

See ... that's me giving you credit ... even though you have already said that arcade monitors refresh 15 times per second ...  :afro:

The pattern has been the same in every one of your posts going back -- if somebody provides *factual* information that falls outside of the realm of your *guesses*, then you get upset, call them names and accuse them of attacking you.

Well, me and my maggoty ass have forgotten more than you know about the subject at hand and aren't going anywhere.

You seem to think that those who disagree are zealots and nothing could be further from the truth. I would bet that I have more LCDs in this house that you do.

 I *love* LCD technology and am anxious to see what folks like RickN have in store in that regard.

Stop saying ridiculous ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about people dealing in absolutes.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 05:32:19 pm by CheffoJeffo »
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Xiaou2

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2009, 05:45:05 pm »
Quote
But of course if one was going to use this idea then why not use the LCD's that have circular pixels?   If a company is working on a prototype why would they not go this route?

Baby steps brother.

 
 Man, you really are out of it.   They dont make LCDs with Round pixels.


 You take a person who is trying to school you a little info,  then turn it around
and try post as if you know more than he does!

 
 You cant even understand the stuff that is being shared with you... yet you claim
you want to learn.   You surely didnt google the info that was given to you to
work with yet.   All you do seem to make time for is being an  A**.


 Just because you Want something to work does not mean it will work.  That is
like thinking  "well, there is no reason why cars cant go 80,000 mpg today!  I mean,
come on,  we are in 2009!  Teach me why they cant, cause I dont believe you. 
YOUR WRONG!  You just dont want to believe!  You dont know what you are
talking about!  Im SURE SOMEONE CAN DO IT BUTTFACE!  Stop calling me names
and picking on me,  BUTTFACES!  Teach me BUTTFACES!  You are WRONG!" 

 (continue cycle infinitely)


 And people are not going to spend oodles of time trying to teach you anything
with the crappy attitude you have.   And being that what they have tried to
share... you do not understand and do not research to the point of
understanding.   It simply just gives you more ammunition to make more wild and
off base assumptions that are Wrong to the extreme.

 
 If you want Any kind of respect.. and want to be token seriously, then you better
do your homework instead of mouthing off at those who do know 10 fold on the
subject over your own knowledge.

CheffoJeffo

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2009, 05:52:09 pm »
When Cheffo and Xiaou2 agree about a topic, what does it mean ?

 ::)
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DJ_Izumi

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2009, 06:59:25 pm »
But of course if one was going to use this idea then why not use the LCD's that have circular pixels?   If a company is working on a prototype why would they not go this route?
So your solution is something which doesn't exist and you only guess that it could exist?

...Good plan.

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2009, 07:06:32 pm »
But of course if one was going to use this idea then why not use the LCD's that have circular pixels?   If a company is working on a prototype why would they not go this route?
So your solution is something which doesn't exist and you only guess that it could exist?

...Good plan.
Hey, give the guy some credit.  His dad took apart an Atari 2600, his neighbor had an Intellivision and he even mentioned Colecovision.  He's been playing video games for 30 years.  He has to know more than everyone else.

 :bat

Ginsu Victim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2009, 07:20:23 pm »
When Cheffo and Xiaou2 agree about a topic, what does it mean ?

 ::)

Tell me about it. It takes a rare breed to make me side with (hell, root for) Xiaou2.

Ginsu Victim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2009, 07:22:41 pm »
But of course if one was going to use this idea then why not use the LCD's that have circular pixels?   If a company is working on a prototype why would they not go this route?
So your solution is something which doesn't exist and you only guess that it could exist?

...Good plan.
Hey, give the guy some credit.  His dad took apart an Atari 2600, his neighbor had an Intellivision and he even mentioned Colecovision.  He's been playing video games for 30 years.  He has to know more than everyone else.

 :bat

I owned a Pong, my cousin had an Odyssey, and my brother had the clap......

Because of this, I can see 300 colors you can't.

PROVE ME WRONG!!

DJ_Izumi

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2009, 08:26:05 pm »
Thus my analogy of 'using digital effects to simulate film looks obvious' remainds true.

I can understand his motive.  It's true LCDs arn't quite what you saw on that 60hz flickering CRT in the arcade and an LCD wouldn't be EXACT to that experiance, especially with the resizing issues I illustrated, however I think it's one of those situations where you have to 'bite the bullet' and get either a CRT rarity issues or an LCD with it's limitations.

However, to be honest, if you're going through the expects to build a freakin' arcade cabinate, getting a CRT tube for it is a worthwhile expense.  On the other hand, some might prefer a 4:3 or 16:9 LCD if possible because there ARE advantages there as well.


genesim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2009, 01:30:09 am »
Quote
Only the more expensive ones. The overwhelming majority are 60hz.

Right.   Noone said this hobby was inexpensive...especially if you are trying to improve it.

XXXXXXX

As for circular pixels...they don't exist...well I don't know but here is the patent for it. 

Wikipedia also has a picture of them in use.   That is just with a 10 minute search.

http://www.patents.com/Liquid-crystal-display-device-fabricating-same/US7440060/en-US/

xxxxxxx

Jeffo,

You are disguising the truth.   Blanka and Xiaou2 both said that phospher lights were the importance of a LCD monitor...I quickly pointed out that was merely a way of illuminating the source of color change(the liquid crystals and the polarizing filters).

His pretty pictures had nothing to do with the discussion because it said what I had already stated earlier(which I outlined in JFK fashion).

When I pointed this out and the fact that any light source(like me saying fire or the sun.  :laugh2:) could be used(but not practical) he blew his top and deleted his posts.   Truth hurts I guess. 

That is what happened.  No lie there.

The rest of this crap is complete garbage that isn't even worth adressing.

Yeah I don't get that a frame rate is not the same as a redraw rate on a computer...gee and I thought those frames went to heaven when I hit pause and pacman seemed to jump.

XXXXX

Dj

For my purposes I like all kinds of games and I think you are short shifting the capability of good software programming, at this point most people aren't listening.

120hz is a hell of alot of frames(when you consider that they aren't a 1:1 relationship to the code to begin with) for a software engineer to play with.

But yeah, I like modern games too, but this crap of "I KNOW THIS" and "I Have That" is so old.   Actually it is entertaining.   I can see it now...the pocket protector duo high fiving each other.  :laugh2:



genesim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2009, 01:39:37 am »
By the way Xiaou2 your example doesn't even make sense.

The LCD would be going the faster rate...and the solution is to make it look crappier.

I was never saying that people are WRONG...I am discussing...the problem with some of the people is that it quickly dissolves into....

NAH NAH NAH you have STUPID ideas...you are a MORON...    :laugh2:

By the way, Xiaou2..care to explain the round pixels to me again?   Weren't you the one preaching to me with the pretty pictures with the CRT color bleed fix.   Real hard to flip that around huh for the opposite effect to the viewer?   Ummm that humble pie sure tastes good doesn't it.

genesim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2009, 01:54:17 am »
But of course if one was going to use this idea then why not use the LCD's that have circular pixels?   If a company is working on a prototype why would they not go this route?
So your solution is something which doesn't exist and you only guess that it could exist?

...Good plan.

UH OH...I think someone's gonna have to do some apologizing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1

DJ_Izumi

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2009, 02:13:56 am »
UH OH...I think someone's gonna have to do some apologizing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1

Those arn't round pixels, they are round subpixels.  If you'd read the brief on it in the article you linked as well, it's not a way that future technology is going but rather a means of cutting production costs and giving it abilities necessary for it's low end task.  It even has to blur color data to try and mask over artifacting.

I'm also at an utter loss as to why you even think that round pixels would even enable CRT simulation on an LCD display or would even be relevent to the issue.  Furthermore, how a 120hz refreshrate would be benifical, however I appears you think that the visual image should flicker and shimmer like sloppy Jell-O.

What's next?  Pre-rendred transparent MAME overlays to simulate screen burn?

genesim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2009, 02:49:33 am »
 :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

I knew it.

You said there weren't round pixels.   I see...so because they are masked..then that doesn't count.   :laugh2: :laugh2:  They must not be round to the human eye in the end???

Wow, we are really splitting hairs here.

Flicker was just an idea because CRT's have it.   Same goes for color bleeding and the like.


As for the extra refresh rate...well one of things I thought of is to gives degrees of color change with the extra frames.   Perhaps even shuttering an image that gives the distortion.   Not a really serious idea, but not knowing anyone that has tried it, I don't know what the results would be.

Quote
What's next?  Pre-rendred transparent MAME overlays to simulate screen burn?

Wouldn't surprise me here with some of things I have read.   Reminds me of people preferring the scratchy sounds on records.

The point of round pixels is that you won't get a stairstepping effect like you do with the blown up rectrangular pixel.    The fact that a good upscale could give a very desirable effect.   Have you seen these monitors?   Do you know for a fact it wouldn't work??

The "subpixels" are nothing more then a fancy of way of saying they are displayed differently.   Can the tech be improved...absolutely, but it is the beggining of an idea and not all bad for emulating a low end monitor.

Of course the apology should come with you saying that the round pixels do not exist...yeah they do, because ROUND is what they end up being. 

If I can't use my example, then how can you use the particle beam submask of a CRT monitor.   That image is obviously changed as well..but that doesn't count?

Never get confused with apparatus/standard vs ability.   Rectangular was a choice, not a necessity as is proved by the patent.

DJ_Izumi

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2009, 02:59:27 am »
No, three round subpixels in that arrangement combine to create straight rows.

Why would someone simulate color bleed?  A good CRT monitor isn't going to colorbleed to any degree that would be signifigantly noticable to the user.  Same for wanting the colors to apparently phase at 120hz.  A good, well maintained CRT isn't going to flicker enough that the colors change between drawing cycles.  If it did it'd be a sign that the tube needs replacing or another fault has occured.  Not only that if the flickering is signifigantly noticable at close range, you'd risk making people experiance eye straign, feeling ill or even experiancing epileptic seizures.

You seem to be hell bent on simulating the shittiest of conditions of a CRT display, why?  Would you like Happ to produce pre-broken buttons to accurately simulate a poorly maintained cabinate better?

On that note, I'm not posting in this thread anymore.  You've basicly gotten locked on a 'stupid idea' and are investing a great deal of thought into the stupid idea while not bothing to considder that the idea is stupid to begin with, cause you think it's freakin' brilliant.

genesim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2009, 03:20:57 am »
Ok.  Sorry for my "stupid" idea.

I am not hellbent on creating the color bleed in the way you think.  I am talking about Xiaou2's example of how the color combining was made beneficial in the "Turbo" screen shots.

Let me ask you one more thing before you go away crying(for what reason I do not know...geez discussing makes you so upset??)

Wouldn't "round" pixel representation of the original code blown up at least interpolate better then rectangles?

As for CRT flicker, I have never run across one that wasn't noticeable.    Even on the high end...it is the nature of the beast.


genesim

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2009, 04:49:32 am »
The more I read about it, the idea sounds even better.

Obviously LCD's can have even smaller resolutions and with a larger dot pitch perhaps a happy medium can be achieved.

I always wondered what the arcade games look like on those crappy LCD monitors that come with portable dvd players.    Add to it the round pixels and surely you got have at the least a better representation??

Blanka

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2009, 05:14:55 am »
Obviously LCD's can have even smaller resolutions and with a larger dot pitch perhaps a happy medium can be achieved.
They better have high resolutions. If they would make a 320x240 27 inch LCD screen, it would look ridiculous when displaying 204x256 content. And probably those pixels are perfect square too at >1mm dot pitch. Maybe OLED in a tridot pattern would look realistic if it is combined with scanline driver logic.

On the other hand, if you stretch both signals to 1600x1200, you can't barely notice which pixels are 4 pixels wide and which ones are 5 pixels wide.
I made some samples in Photoshop, and 1600x1200 really has enough room to render a very accurate tridot simulation. Only thing that bothers me, is that all emulators have some sort of scanline emulation, but none of them are done right. So programmers: either do it right, or keep us looking at those 5x5 pixel blocks (which in fact I do like too).
This is how it should be done:
- Upscale the image to 1600x1200 and apply scanlines DEPENDING on the vertical resolution. So not 4 pixel scanlines, or 2 pixel scanlines, but scanlines that match the vertical resolution. Now you sometimes see that Donkey Kongs bars are 2 scanlines on the bottom and 3 on top. Or that Pac's maze edges are 2 scanlines wide at some parts of the screen. This because of rounding to multiples of 2,3 or 4. You can even render the image at 5 times magnification, then apply a 5 pixel scanline and then use OpenGL's antialiased scaling to stretch it too the monitor resolution.
- Do the scanline-transition with preservation of colour and brightness. Now scanlines mostly overlay black lines. Wrong: a white scanline is invisible, it looks like it sticks together with the next scanline, whereas dark grey scanlines look very narrow with big separation between them. This way you can maintain full brightness and colour accuracy on an LCD or any other high res screen.
- After upscaling to the full resolution of the screen, you start the overlay of tridot patterns. At this moment tridot AND scanlines are always added in one pass. It should be two pass. The tridot has to optimised for the full resolution, and take into account the RGB subpixels of an LCD screen (a tridot monitor can have a similar amount of tridot subpixels as an LCD screen, yet support low 240 scanline resolutions), where the scanline overlay was optimised for the original resolution.
- This tridot overlay has to be done in a similar way as the scanlines are done. So full white stays full white. Try to experiment with the layer filters in Photoshop, and you will find a combination that adds a tridot pattern, yet does not alter brightness and colour. Again today's solutions cap the brightness with applying the tridot patterns by overlaying black masks and capping each tridot to 1 primary colour, which reduces brightness by 70% or more.

So if you want to do it good, have the scaler turn the 224x256 game 1120x1280 first, then add 5 pixel scanlines, scale the result to 1200x1600, and apply a 1200x4800 subpixelmask iin the last pass to make the best LCD tridot simulation possible. For a videocard this procedure is peanuts, and can be done 300 times per second easily, so we don't have to fear much delay from that.

Bleed, flicker and other 'non perfect' characteristics of CRT tubes can be stolen IMO. I just would like a nice upscaling, that's enough.


Here you see the very dim result of MameOSX rendering a 4x6 tridot simulation which gives a 2 scanline wide maze-egde and 3 scanline wide pills at some points. Also the 100% blue of the lines should at least put all blue LCD pixels lit. Now 2 out of 3 are dim, and that is the reason the image is so dim.
The pills have a brightness of 85% normally, with the overlay it is 44% in LAB colourspace (brightness component on a scale from 0-100). On an absolute scale the brightness is much lower, but thanks to the 2.2 gamma curve 44% does not look too bad. See for your self how "half" the brightness in Photoshop feels to you:
Brightness differences:
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 06:40:57 am by Blanka »

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2009, 06:36:31 am »
Very nice post!!

Blanka, I say this with my sincerest apology..I didn't mean to offend you.   Perhaps the battle got too heated and even if I felt strongly you were actually one of the one's not making it completely personal.

I enjoyed the discussion and as others point out there is much that I have to learn.   

I still know the phospher coated bulb is not the same mechanism as CRT or Plasma... it is an illuminator...important yes...but not the most important source.   >:D

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2009, 07:09:51 am »
This is a result from a Photoshop conversion of Pac Man to scanlines with unaltered colours and brightness. The process of converting is similar to press-rasterizing in linear patterns:

Try to view it on a 1200x1600 screen at 1:1.
This is only the display of the scanline effect, no tridot simulation yet. I have no good mask for that.
If you view the image in a seperate browser window, and rescale that window, you get an idea how it can look on say 1024x768 or 800x600 too.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 07:12:21 am by Blanka »

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2009, 07:46:18 am »
couple of questions,

genesism......do you know there is an edit button? it allows you to change your post without having to double or triple post. Its a very basic function of a message board that you cant seem to grasp.

Ok , so round pixels....... what fills in the gaps between them?

I think every time you say the word "code" from now on, you should get a one day ban.
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2009, 08:30:46 am »
Two more examples of my Photoshop filter:
Galaga 88

Golden Axe

Now find someone that can run this on the GPU.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 08:35:25 am by Blanka »

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2009, 08:38:53 am »
I tried to edit and it won't let me passed a certain time.   MODIFY is what I use.   So I don't know about this "I can't seem to get" crap.   You are the first that has actually criticized me.

As what fills in the gap.  NOTHING.   Shouldn't have to, it would be simply black.

What fills the gap on a regular CRT image?   A circle is a circle.   Or have you missed the photographic dots all these years?

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2009, 08:58:04 am »
genesism......do you know there is an edit button? it allows you to change your post without having to double or triple post. Its a very basic function of a message board that you cant seem to grasp.

IIRC, he had that privilege revoked, so it's not his fault.
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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2009, 09:13:14 am »
genesism......do you know there is an edit button? it allows you to change your post without having to double or triple post. Its a very basic function of a message board that you cant seem to grasp.

IIRC, he had that privilege revoked, so it's not his fault.
It IS his fault for pulling that b.s. in the other thread that prompted Saint to remove the right to do this.  I understand your point about why he can't do it, but don't overlook the fact that it was his actions in the first place that caused this situation in the first place.

It is most definitely his fault. 

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2009, 09:15:06 am »
Stop causing trouble!  ;)
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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2009, 09:25:50 am »
So let me get this straight, I am the only one that cannot edit immediately?    I can modify..but only after a set amount of time.

Now to be clear, I would never modify to somehow change history, so I don't see where the abuse is.

I am not a liar and it is a complete coward to change a statement to make someone else look like a liar.   If that was why the privledge was removed from me...then I don't see why.

Though I have pm'd Saint about this and I was told that was not the case.    Modify...but only after a set amount of time.   

Of cours how do my actions dictate others?    I am pretty new to the board (relatively) so how can the few times I posted change all the rules?   

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2009, 09:33:24 am »
There have been several people that have had their post editing rights taken away. You're not alone.

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2009, 09:35:32 am »
There have been several people that have had their post editing rights taken away. You're not alone.
I can think of at least three others and that's within the last couple of years.  One just happened in the last week or so.   ;D

It's always entertaining to watch someone blow up.   :P

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2009, 09:49:09 am »
It's always entertaining to watch someone blow up.   :P

Especially fun when you have a hand in it. ;D

(I'm talkin' to YOU, Hemi!)

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2009, 10:06:08 am »
Do you think people that get banned still visit and read the boards?  I know some of them start posting again under different names.   

:blowup:

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2009, 10:08:45 am »
You've got to assume so. Sometimes they just blame their brother.

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2009, 10:20:46 am »
Back on point for just a minute if I may....

I still have no idea what he wants to happen.  Is it different Mame configurations (based on software changes that getting "coded") to match different monitors?  Besides arguing the idiocy of what monitors can and can't do, why not just email Mamedev and tell them to implement this.  Or, better yet, go post this at Mameworld.  They'll be very receptive to this.   ;D

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2009, 10:30:45 am »
Weird...especially not being notified.   I didn't realize I was abusing it.    At least I am thankful for one modify.   Some of what is written wouldn't make it to print...I post...then do some work...then come back and post.

While it does get me into trouble on the "fact chart" it also keeps it fresh.   I don't have any deep regrets over what I have written and I stand by most everything.   It is a discussion board, not the holy bible.

That said having a groupie like Jeffo following me around makes it all the more special...but like some obsessed fans it gets a little scary.

Rest assured, if I am banned, then I am banned, but I will never post under another name.   genesim is my moniker on several boards and my game name online.   It will never change.

Incidently Hoopz is that blow up of the smiley from Metal Slug?  It kind of looks like it.

xxxxxxxx

Back to the discussion.   What is the best program for interpolating then?    I have never even tried the options on MAME32 Plus.    But if there is something better I am all ears.    

As for the rest, round pixels would certaintly help..even if it doesn't give exact results.   I head read about round pixels before and that is why I initially posted.   masked or not if done correctly it can still give desirable results.    The cheap monitor I gave as an example could be just the beginning.

You gotta admit the stair stepping has alot to do with the square pixels.    Hence the name on Metal Slug looking so bad.

The last picture..while not right, I think is incredible.   Imagine it being done with more distinct round pixels.   Could help not have the straight edges in his face.  (Incidently Hoopz if you don't understand then read what I wrote and actually tell me the part you don't understand...instead of going.. I don't get it...I don't get it...How constructive is that?   Even if I am an "idiot" filled with "stupid" ideas...what good is it to put me down for it?   What you makes you so high and mighty?   I would hope you treat others just a little better then that.   Do you call your wife(or boyfriend..not sure here) an idiot if she doesn't come up with an idea that seems fitting to your oh so high standards?)

The main problem I have with a CRT monitor is its low resolution and it not doing newer games complete justice.    It may be expecting alot, but the high resolution pinball games along with say Doom3 or Call Of Duty are a must.

I may be on the out on this but roller ball plus Tron stick is alot more fun to me then the keyboard and mouse.    It is a much better feel.

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #75 on: April 28, 2009, 10:34:14 am »
That said having a groupie like Jeffo following me around makes it all the more special...but like some obsessed fans it gets a little scary.

That's what I'm here for.

And, please refer to me as CheffoJeffo or Cheffo so as to avoid confusion with the user Jeffo, who has his own issues to deal with.  >:D
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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2009, 10:42:43 am »
You really think anyone is going to get confused?  I like Jeffo because it reminds me of Jethro which fits you to a tee.   Ok?  You can at least give me that pleasure.

Its the least you can do for admittingly being a stalker boy.

XXXXXX

Incidently when looking at the last Metal Slug pic I look at the lettering and I think to all the people here...you honestly think an LCD can have software to have better smart interporlation then that???

What gets me is so many act as if a LCD is incapable of presenting a great picture. 

Dime to dozen...other then the obvious rounding errors in having straight lines where there should be circlues(again non-improved software)....the original vision does not look better to me at all.    If I had a choice I would go with 4 over one.   

That is why I prefer LCD over CRT.   CRT has Hum...flicker.....etc. etc.    You see oh so sweet nostalgia, I see inherent color problems and a monitor that is just plain bad.

But we all have our own tastes.   Just wonder why so many on here try to convince me...and claim they don't care so much...but yet they keep posting trying to prove me "wrong".   Pocket protectors  UNITE!

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2009, 10:50:07 am »
Now, are you just talking about arcade CRTs, or are you talking PC CRTs as well? My 19" PC CRT in my cab can do up to 1600x1200, though I run it at 640x480@60. I have no flicker or bleeding and the picture is too clean for proper arcade emulation, though at least at 640x480 I get hardware scanlines.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 10:58:04 am by Ginsu Victim »

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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2009, 11:04:02 am »
You really think anyone is going to get confused?  I like Jeffo because it reminds me of Jethro which fits you to a tee.   Ok?  You can at least give me that pleasure.

Its the least you can do for admittingly being a stalker boy.

Well, I warned him that something like this could happen when he registered (here and on a number of other boards), so knock yourself out. If he has a problem, I'll let him take it up with you. Don't blame me if he stuffs you in an empty cab, installs a 48-in-1 and sells you on eBay.

I'm not so much a stalker as I am someone who keeps the belligerent Kool Aid man honest while he runs around telling people that they are wrong when, in fact, he is the one who, more often than not, is the one who is wrong.

What gets me is so many act as if a LCD is incapable of presenting a great picture. 

See -- you are framing things to fit your argument instead of letting people's statements stand on their own.

I *love* LCDs -- by quick count I have 7 actively-used LCD displays in my home.

Quite simply, for me, they aren't the appropriate choice for displaying classic arcade games. Having said that, if people don't have a problem with how the games look, that they don't have a problem. I certainly wouldn't try to play BluRay discs on an arcade monitor !

As to more accurately simulating CRT effects on an LCD, I don't think there is a need to do it in MAME. I would love to see something done in hardware for folks using real boardsets, but I doubt that the market is there to support such an endeavour.

But we all have our own tastes.   Just wonder why so many on here try to convince me...and claim they don't care so much...but yet they keep posting trying to prove me "wrong".   Pocket protectors  UNITE!

People keep posting because you keep making horribly blatant mistakes and then telling people that they are wrong.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 11:07:54 am by CheffoJeffo »
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Re: LCD and above to replace CRT monitors
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2009, 11:08:20 am »

Incidently Hoopz is that blow up of the smiley from Metal Slug?  It kind of looks like it.

It depends on what type of monitor you are using....  I built mine after reading Wikipedia for 4 minutes about Cliff Gardner (the brother-in-law of Philo Farnsworth who literally invented television).  

I figured that since I read wikipedia, had played video games my entire life, and have a keyboard to post my thoughts, that makes me qualified to build a monitor as I have to know everything about it contrary to what the experts know!