Author Topic: Woman sits on toilet for two years (Read 6051 times)

kingflynn · « **on:** March 13, 2008, 05:50:55 pm »

Her skin grew around the seat.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080313/NEWS07/803130428/1009/NEWS07

My question is where did the boyfriend go to the bathroom?

ChadTower · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2008, 05:52:33 pm »

Every radio DJ on every station everywhere has been talking about this all day.

ahofle · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2008, 06:16:43 pm »

How in the hell could anyone sleep on a toilet seat?

RTSDaddy2 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2008, 08:39:39 pm »

King, that was exactly my thought until I just read some more on the story online...apparently the home did, in fact, have two bathrooms....the report I read said he tried to get her to move to the other potty (what kind of logic is that? Dear, you've sat there long enough - come sit on this one for a while?)?

This seems a very sad tale, truthfully - I still can't figure out why he waited two years to get this woman medical help.

ark_ader · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2008, 11:24:32 pm »

Quote from: RTSDaddy2 on March 13, 2008, 08:39:39 pm

King, that was exactly my thought until I just read some more on the story online...apparently the home did, in fact, have two bathrooms....the report I read said he tried to get her to move to the other potty (what kind of logic is that? Dear, you've sat there long enough - come sit on this one for a while?)?

This seems a very sad tale, truthfully - I still can't figure out why he waited two years to get this woman medical help.

The septic tank got full?

protokatie · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2008, 01:36:15 am »

I read a story like 4 or 5 years back where a woman taking care of an obese woman was charged for neglegent homicide. Apparently the obese woman hadnt moved from the couch in years, the couch was basically feces encrusted and the obese woman had been in one spot for so long that she had grafted to the couch fabric itself. they had to cut pieces of the couch up just to move here because she became one with the damn thing... UGH

shmokes · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2008, 02:45:29 am »

Actually, that bit with the couch was from an episode of Nip/Tuck, though maybe that episode was based on a real-life thing.

Anyway, what strikes me about this is how this lady managed to sit on a toilet for two years without developing blood clots in her legs. I'm a little bit surprised she didn't die of a heart attack the second they moved her and the clots rushed up into her heart.

koolmoecraig · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2008, 03:27:48 am »

Didn't anyone else notice that the sheriffs name is "Mr. Whipple"

OH the irony!

http://www.whipple.org/photos/charmin.html

ChadTower · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2008, 07:54:49 am »

Quote from: shmokes on March 14, 2008, 02:45:29 am

Actually, that bit with the couch was from an episode of Nip/Tuck, though maybe that episode was based on a real-life thing.

There have been a few real life instances of this, probably far more than hit the media. It does happen.

shardian · « **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2008, 08:19:29 am »

That story is so messed up that I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I keep thinking that she must have one hell of a case of hemorrhoids after sitting on the pot for that long.

ChadTower · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2008, 09:15:53 am »

You don't get hemorrhoids from just sitting on the toilet too long. They are from excessive pushing. That's why women get them from labor so often.

mpm32 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2008, 09:27:31 am »

My wife won't let me sit on the toilet for more than 5 minutes. "What are you doing in there? Stop trying to hide and get out here and do what I asked you to!" lol

No fear of that happening to me.

Dartful Dodger · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2008, 11:09:12 am »

My legs fall asleep if I'm on the toilet more than 20 minutes.

Maybe being fat helps support your veins.

ChadTower · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2008, 11:12:43 am »

Or having a different height of toilet to height of person ratio. Shorten your toilet and you won't have the seat pressing arterties closed.

kingflynn · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2008, 11:40:32 am »

I heard that she was actually thin. I think the most unbelievable thing is that she HAD a boyfriend. At least there weren't any kids living there. It really is very sad.

shardian · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2008, 11:50:08 am »

Here is my suspected theory:

Let's assume the girl collected a check/food stamps/etc. from the Gov't. I don't know this for a fact, but let's assume it is true. The "boyfriend" could in theory also be living off of this money. If it got to the point she was a total nut job, then she would need professional help, the money would go bye-bye, and said "boyfriend" would have to provide for himself. Awful good reason to keep things quite, eh?

You're an idiot if you buy the guy's story. There was a reason he left her in the bathroom that long without telling anyone. Once the dust settles, he'll be in jail.

ChadTower · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2008, 11:57:37 am »

There is also the thought that he isn't her parent or guardian. She is an adult. Should he really be put in jail because he didn't help? She wasn't in danger. She wasn't putting anyone else in danger. If she wants to spend her life on the toilet shouldn't she be free to do so? At what point does he become legally responsible for her wellbeing in a situation where she is not actively harming herself or anyone else?

shardian · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2008, 12:41:48 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on March 14, 2008, 11:57:37 am

At what point does he become legally responsible for her wellbeing in a situation where she is not actively harming herself or anyone else?

She was in his house. Who the hell lets a woman live on their toilet for 2 years? A week, well okay maybe. After that, its "Yeah, you're gonna have to get the ---fudgesicle--- out of my house you weirdo". Of course they will investigate him for wrong-doing, mainly do to the bizarreness of it all.

ChadTower · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2008, 01:14:18 pm »

They said on the radio this morning the couple has been together for 15 years. Are we sure it was his house and not "theirs"? Do we know she didn't live there for quite a while before she sat in the bathroom?

kingflynn · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2008, 01:36:23 pm »

Yes she's an adult, but it seems she had diminished mental capacity. Nobody in their "right mind" would sit on a toilet that long. Since he was providing her with food and water, he may be considered her guardian. It may be considered abuse not to help someone under your care whom so obviously needed it.

ChadTower · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2008, 01:58:59 pm »

Following that logic he would not have legal liability if he let her starve to death instead.

Dartful Dodger · « **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2008, 02:16:18 pm »

Yes he may be considered her guardian, but it seems he had diminished mental capacity. Nobody in their "right mind" would let a woman stay on the toilet that long.

It sound like they were just loons. Trying to figure out the 'whys' will just give you a headache.

shardian · « **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2008, 02:18:10 pm »

I think we need our resident lawyer in training.

If they had lived together for 15 years, then they are domestic partners, right. I suppose this might fall under some sort of domestic abuse then.

ChadTower · « **Reply #23 on:** March 14, 2008, 02:27:45 pm »

I don't agree that feeding her and helping her stay alive during her problems is abuse. He could very easily have walked out the door and left her there to get up or starve to death. Would leaving have been abusive or have led to criminal charges?

It has been said here multiple times that after a week he should have just picked her up and thrown her out. If feeding her for two years is abusive, how would taking a badly agoraphobic woman and tossing her outside any better?

The way I see it, what he did is enable her for way too long, and should have sought outside help after a few weeks instead of two years. I don't see him having done anything criminal, though. Not based on the details we have now.

knave · « **Reply #24 on:** March 14, 2008, 05:24:09 pm »

I wonder how they...

(I'll stop there.)

ark_ader · « **Reply #25 on:** March 14, 2008, 08:32:45 pm »

There could be a unknown medical issue we could be missing here. I know plenty people who have had Crohn's Disease or Ulcerative Colitis. These terrible medical conditions would restrict someone to just the bathroom very easily. Depending on the severity. It happens to one in five Americans.

Which makes the fact that she was thin a real possibility. Also until just recently colitis was a very hush hush condition riddled with terrible personal embrassment. I think it is in the category of America's number one killer, and took the life of Elisabeth Montgomery as both conditions can be cancerous.

If you are or a relative is suffering with the above medical conditions I would advise you to seek a doctor of internal medicine. Any help before it gets out of hand.
Link: http://www.ccfa.org/info/about/ucp

Linked with some mental issue (you would too if you had colitis) would explain the the very very sad story.

Blood clots could have been avoided with gentle excercise and stretches, very similar to the excercises you do when sitting at a desk too long.

Lets hope we never hear this type of story again.

protokatie · « **Reply #26 on:** March 14, 2008, 08:35:05 pm »

http://www.wftv.com/news/3643877/detail.html

Ahh here we go, this is the one I was talking about, with the woman being actually grafted to the couch...

Jdurg · « **Reply #27 on:** March 15, 2008, 01:50:13 pm »

There's nothing criminal about this case. If the woman was repeatedly asking for help or wanted to get off the can and he refused to help and refused to allow her, then yes, it's criminal. In this case, the woman did NOT want to get up or get off the can or go anywhere. He wasn't denying her the ability to do anything.

I just hope she wasn't on any clinical trials or studies since figuring out how to code this incident into a clinical database would be a nightmare!

shmokes · « **Reply #28 on:** March 15, 2008, 10:11:43 pm »

I haven't taken family law. Your guess is as good as mine. I'll give you my guess anyway, though. I have absolutely no idea whether there's any chance of criminal charges here. That would depend entirely on the laws in Wichita, Kansas, I suppose. Civilly I suppose we'd be looking at a potential negligence claim. Typically a person has no legal duty to help another unless the would-be rescuer created the person's danger. The classic example is that an Olympic swimmer can sit by a swimming pool and smoke a cigarette while he watches a person drown. He has no duty to help the drowning person, no matter how good a position he was in to provide help.

There are exceptions to this rule, however. People with special relationships can have affirmative duties to provide reasonable care and protection. The category of special relationships that I could see being relevant here is custodial relationships. People with custodial care over another person may have a special relationship giving rise to an affirmative duty of care. You might say that this guy had a custodial relationship with this lady, but it seems like that would be a hard sell. The lady is an adult who chose to be there. For example, while schools K-12 usually have a special relationship with their students, universities usually do not. The primary reason for this is that the latter is dealing with adults who chose to attend school.

Another theory that might get him is the undertaking doctrine, which says that once you've undertaken to help someone, even where you had no duty to do so, you assume a duty of reasonable care. One might argue that by keeping her fed and so on, he was under a duty to act with reasonable care. If a judge found that he did have such a duty, his case could then go to a jury to decide whether notifying authorities falls within the scope of "reasonable care".

Keep in mind that I am in my first year of law school . . . this is just the first stuff that comes to mind. I'd have to research actual case law to give you a good answer. While I have unlimited access to the normally retardedly expensive tools to conduct such research, I don't have anything like an inclination to spend a lot of time on this.

Jdurg · « **Reply #29 on:** March 15, 2008, 11:49:41 pm »

Law school and being involved in emulators/arcade cabinet building. Ouch. That's got to be quite a conflict!

Quote from: shmokes on March 15, 2008, 10:11:43 pm

I haven't taken family law. Your guess is as good as mine. I'll give you my guess anyway, though. I have absolutely no idea whether there's any chance of criminal charges here. That would depend entirely on the laws in Wichita, Kansas, I suppose. Civilly I suppose we'd be looking at a potential negligence claim. Typically a person has no legal duty to help another unless the would-be rescuer created the person's danger. The classic example is that an Olympic swimmer can sit by a swimming pool and smoke a cigarette while he watches a person drown. He has no duty to help the drowning person, no matter how good a position he was in to provide help.

There are exceptions to this rule, however. People with special relationships can have affirmative duties to provide reasonable care and protection. The category of special relationships that I could see being relevant here is custodial relationships. People with custodial care over another person may have a special relationship giving rise to an affirmative duty of care. You might say that this guy had a custodial relationship with this lady, but it seems like that would be a hard sell. The lady is an adult who chose to be there. For example, while schools K-12 usually have a special relationship with their students, universities usually do not. The primary reason for this is that the latter is dealing with adults who chose to attend school.

Another theory that might get him is the undertaking doctrine, which says that once you've undertaken to help someone, even where you had no duty to do so, you assume a duty of reasonable care. One might argue that by keeping her fed and so on, he was under a duty to act with reasonable care. If a judge found that he did have such a duty, his case could then go to a jury to decide whether notifying authorities falls within the scope of "reasonable care".

Keep in mind that I am in my first year of law school . . . this is just the first stuff that comes to mind. I'd have to research actual case law to give you a good answer. While I have unlimited access to the normally retardedly expensive tools to conduct such research, I don't have anything like an inclination to spend a lot of time on this.

shmokes · « **Reply #30 on:** March 16, 2008, 12:34:11 am »

Knowing the law and taking it too seriously are two different things . . .

ChadTower · « **Reply #31 on:** March 16, 2008, 09:44:01 am »

Of course, if he gets nailed for having undertaken a reasonable duty of care, that just sets a very public precedent that when someone is put in that position the intelligent thing to do is let the individual starve to death. No sense in getting yourself put in jail because your girlfriend is effed up in the head.

(reading that last sentence back, I bet there are thousands of guys who have done just that in other ways)

DaOld Man · « **Reply #32 on:** March 19, 2008, 01:02:36 pm »

Maybe the woman had a telephone installed by the toilet?
(Sorry ladies, I couldnt resist).

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #33 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:10:41 am »

Looks like the boyfriend has been charged now: CNN story

ChadTower · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:14:43 am »

So now we know. When you come across someone in psychological trouble like that, you either throw them out in the street, or you let them starve. Don't try to help them - that is criminal.

They'll say he should have called someone to help. Call who? She has no family. Call the state? The state leaves children in aggressively abusive homes until they are killed. What are they going to do with a woman on a toilet?

shardian · « **Reply #35 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:31:56 am »

Her legs had atrophied, and she had extreme open sores which melded to the seat. You would think that might be a bit noticeable if you bring food/water every day, and try to coax a person out. I doubt she was even aware of her surroundings any more.

Having said that, I doubt he would ever be convicted of anything. I doubt the guys story, and I think there was more going on here. I think the prosecutor and police know nothing will come of the charges too. They'll get the guy in jail for a few days, and make him sit thru a trial, hire a lawyer etc. That will be his punishment.

ChadTower · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:38:34 am »

Quote from: shardian on March 20, 2008, 09:31:56 am

Her legs had atrophied, and she had extreme open sores which melded to the seat. You would think that might be a bit noticeable if you bring food/water every day, and try to coax a person out. I doubt she was even aware of her surroundings any more.

Sure, but who was he going to call for help? There is nobody. His options are to let her die or do what he can. People keep saying he shouldn't have let her stay there but no one gives a realistic alternative.

Quote

Having said that, I doubt he would ever be convicted of anything. I doubt the guys story, and I think there was more going on here. I think the prosecutor and police know nothing will come of the charges too. They'll get the guy in jail for a few days, and make him sit thru a trial, hire a lawyer etc. That will be his punishment.

Since when was our justice system set up for the Police and prosecutors to mete out punishment? How many trailer-dwellers do you know that can hire a lawyer?

kingflynn · « **Reply #37 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:50:55 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on March 20, 2008, 09:38:34 am

Sure, but who was he going to call for help? There is nobody. His options are to let her die or do what he can. People keep saying he shouldn't have let her stay there but no one gives a realistic alternative.

You call the police for gods sake! The options are not "Let her starve to death, or feed her". You call the police! You can't just say that the state gets kids beat to death, so I refuse to call them. You call the police, then the ball is in their court. You'd be amazed at the programs available to dependent adults.

shardian · « **Reply #38 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:52:36 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on March 20, 2008, 09:38:34 am

Sure, but who was he going to call for help? There is nobody. His options are to let her die or do what he can. People keep saying he shouldn't have let her stay there but no one gives a realistic alternative.

Duh, maybe an ambulance for starters. You know, before she went catatonic.

ChadTower · « **Reply #39 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:56:52 am »

The Police show up, look at her, write a couple of things down, and "get back to you". They don't fix the situation. It is not their job to pull women off toilets. This was her place of residence, so she isn't trespassing. She is in there voluntarily, so she is not being held. There isn't anything for the Police to actually do other than record that she is there and that you called them about it. There is no crime in progress.

Maybe, and this is a lottery odds possibility, the cop calls someone he knows in state social services. That could happen, but it almost certainly wouldn't, and even if it did it would be longer than two years before anyone actually came to look at the woman. This is state gov't, remember. The same gov't that will let a 4 year old stay in a home where people get off on burning the kid for kicks. If she isn't in need of ICU she isn't on their radar.


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