Building my first cab and need advice for the display

[ivwshane]

First off I love this place! Lot's of good info here.

I'm building/planning my first arcade cabinet (for mame) and the hardest part seems to be figuring out what type of display to use.
I would love to use an LCD but they don't make 25" 4:3 screens, my next choice would be an actual arcade monitor but I'm not sure how important having support for the various frequencies is.

I'll be using this cab mostly for mame but will also be using windows for things like music/jukebox support. I would like it to have at least a 25" display and be high resolution (for windows based stuff), I also don't mind faking things like scanlines.

So far I have found a couple of monitors that look like they would be perfect:

BilLABS BL27CB0P: It has a nice flat screen, supports 1024x768 res, supports 15-48KHz freq and supports auto sync. I emailed the company but I haven't gotten a response from them and based off of the condition of their website (links either don't work or are outdated) I think my chances of buying from them are slim.

27" MakVision High Res. Monitor (happ#49-2717-00): This one also has a flat tube and supports 1024x768 res however it only supports 30-50KHz freq and I can't tell if it is auto sync capable.

I've looked at some wells gardner and while they maybe popular their quality seems to be low.


I guess the biggest thing throwing me off is the importance of the 15KHz freq.


I also haven't looked at LCD TVs mainly because I don't know how well they perform at various resolutions (including windows).

Any comments or suggestions?

[ahofle]

IMO supporting 15khz (CGA) is THE most important thing to look for in an arcade monitor given that over 90% of MAME games run at CGA resolutions natively.  You also forgot to mention the Betson 27" multisync.

[ArtMAME]

I have built a cabinet with an NEC XM 2950 for my buddy.  These monitors will do CGA to
 XVGA (hi-res PC resolutions) automatically.  He is using PC resolutions on all his games,
he does not bother with any of the CGA resolutions, he does not have to, the games look
 awesome anyway.

If you can find one on Ebay close to you, this monitor is awesome!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEC-MultiSync-XM-29-Xtra-29-Inch-CRT-MONITOR-1280x1024_W0QQitemZ360010910501QQihZ023QQcategoryZ21517QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They are very heavy, and they are a challenge to mount since they have no mounting
brackets.  They are multi-media monitors, not really designed for arcade use, but they do
 work and they are absolutely awesome!!!

They won't really fit in a standard 25" cabinet, and they are 26"x20"x20" so ideally you
really need to build from scratch.

[ivwshane]

IMO supporting 15khz (CGA) is THE most important thing to look for in an arcade monitor given that over 90% of MAME games run at CGA resolutions natively.  You also forgot to mention the Betson 27" multisync.

Is this the one you are talking about?
http://www.betson.com/products/IMP-44-4070-RT

It looks like it only supports 800x600 though and I don't see the freq specs.

The NEC XM 2950 looks nice but availability looks like it will be an issue.


I really wish billabs was more accessible:( Does anyone else know how to get that monitor? I heard billabs is just a distributor for Wei-ya monitors, what corresponding part number would I be look for from Wei-ya?

[ivwshane]

I'm thinking of this 4:3 hdtv, what do you guys think?

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=177542&WT.mc_n=67&WT.mc_t=U&cm_ven=COMPARISON%20SHOPPING&cm_cat=PRICEGRABBER&cm_pla=DATAFEED-%3EPRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=67#prodspecs


If that link doesn't work then try this one:
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=slimfithdtv&model_cd=TXT2793HX/XAA

[paulscade]

Hi All,

I've had some e-mail contact with Billabs on the BL27CB0P.

You're right... their website in incomplete and many of the links are broken.

I did manage to get a price quote from them:

Monitor - $549
Shipping Cost - $191 (Residential Address - South Florida)
Total - $740

Ouch... it's not exactly inexpensive (not that I expected that it would be).  The shipping is really the killer.

I'm waiting for more information from them... I just sent them more e-mail today asking about:
- detailed spec sheet like what's available for the other monitors
- warranty information

Both pieces of info are missing from their site.

Is Billabs an "established" company for arcade monitors?  I have to wonder why they don't have a more complete and professional web presence.

Paul

[ivwshane]

I guess the billabs monitor is out of the question, it looks like they pulled from their site:(

[ahofle]

I still see the multi-syncs here (19, 25, and 27 inch):
http://billabs.com/crts.htm

[ivwshane]

I still see the multi-syncs here (19, 25, and 27 inch):
http://billabs.com/crts.htm

Yes but not the one I was looking at BL27CB0P. That one supported 15khz-48khz and 1024x768!

[ivwshane]

Hmm according to this pdf from their site there is two other monitors with similar specs to the one I was looking at:
http://billabs.com/images/monitor_27_specs.pdf

bl27caoq and bl27ca1q
The difference being the dot pitch.

[ivwshane]

Never mind, I called them and they said that one had been discontinued for over a year:(


It sounds like the bl27cb0p is being phased out as well:p
The guys was telling me about a 16:9 lcd that they will be coming out with in the future but I just don't see how a 16:9 screen would look good.

[Rickn]

I know most of the guys like to run the games in their native resolutions, but if you are open to running Mame and your other Apps at 640X480...

then perhaps you might want to consider our 3M25... this is a tri-res 24.8" with a flat tube. It is not digital so does not remember the picture settings from standard res, mid res etc..

If you run it always in VGA, no need for the Ultimarc card, plug and play.

Other than that I have almost finalized our new LCD format...

19" 4:3
26" and larger such as 32" etc. 16X9

They support most if not all standard res games mid res as well as most everything above that.


Good Luck

Rick Nieman
Rick @ Nieman Displays . com (retype this with no spaces)
www. niemandisplays.com

[ahofle]

Rick,
A while back, you mentioned that you were considering making a digital multisync CRT.  Is that still a consideration of yours?  It would be so nice to have a reliable, well respected source for a digital multi-sync.  Especially since Billabs is discontinuing a couple of theirs and the Betson's multisync has been having some geometry issues with theirs lately.  Not to mention both of those companies are totally clueless about their own products.

[WareWolF]

Rick... kinda OT...  would you be able to possibly design your 39" monitors for higher resolution?  If they could do 1024x768 they might be suitable as a high end CRT HDTV 720p monitor, might be a niche market worth exploring since every TV mfr has pretty much pulled out of the CRT market, there are still people who prefer CRT's to LCD & Plasma panels for HDTV material.  (similar to the way people want "real" arcade monitors).

[ivwshane]

It is not digital so does not remember the picture settings from standard res, mid res etc.

What does this mean?

[ahofle]

This means if you switch from 640x480 to 320x240 to play a game, you will have to manually adjust the picture (size, position, etc).  With a digital monitor, you only have to do this once and then it remembers your geometry settings from there on out.

[ivwshane]

This means if you switch from 640x480 to 320x240 to play a game, you will have to manually adjust the picture (size, position, etc).  With a digital monitor, you only have to do this once and then it remembers your geometry settings from there on out.

Thanks! Wouldn't that be a feature you would want?

[ahofle]

From the perspective of a person with a MAME cabinet frequently switching resolutions, yes.  From the perspective of an arcade technician or operator where the monitor is installed in one single game using a single resolution, no.

[Ummon]

I'm thinking of this 4:3 hdtv, what do you guys think?

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=177542&WT.mc_n=67&WT.mc_t=U&cm_ven=COMPARISON%20SHOPPING&cm_cat=PRICEGRABBER&cm_pla=DATAFEED-%3EPRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=67#prodspecs

I was looking at this a wile back. (They have the wrong picture there, though.) I think somebody did DVI to HDMI with some recent make and model. You could also look for something used, locally.

[ivwshane]

So I bought the samsung tv today and I took it apart to see how easy or if it was possible to mount it. What do you guys think?

http://picasaweb.google.com/ivwshane/MameCab

I haven't connected my computer to it yet to see how it works because I don't have the proper cable but I'll post picks as soon as I can.

[Ummon]

Erm....before buying, I would've recommended going into the store with an old computer and trying whatever connection method(s) you were interested in.

[gatordad]

Hmm according to this pdf from their site there is two other monitors with similar specs to the one I was looking at:
http://billabs.com/images/monitor_27_specs.pdf

bl27caoq and bl27ca1q
The difference being the dot pitch.

Another difference between the two
One is a flat tube and the other is standard curved tube

[ivwshane]

Erm....before buying, I would've recommended going into the store with an old computer and trying whatever connection method(s) you were interested in.

I have a dvi to hdmi cable on the way and I was able to test out the connection with an svideo cable. Windows looked ok (it fit the screen perfectly but the low refresh rate caused some eye strain and the picture wasn't that sharp), I tried a couple of games through mame and it looked great!!

My only concern right now is that 27" is so huge!

Does anyone know if the mame book has demension specs for various arcade cabinets that fit 27" monitors?