Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!

[MaximRecoil]

Oh great, now you're gonna get the car guys going - I'm a GM guy, and I can tell you that the grand generalization you are extolling is most likely based on absolutely no statistics. Talk to an old 'Vette owner - I think the phrase you are really looking for is a "numbers matching" resto - and anybody can do that, show me some numbers that prove the Mopar guys have this locked up...

"Numbers matching" means very little. All that means is that it has the original block, transmission, fender tag, etc., and maybe it has a broadcast sheet. And no, the word I was looking for was "concours" [restoration], which is why I used it.

And you're right, I was simply taking a jab at Ford and GM guys. If there are statistics, I'm not interested in finding them. Consider it as a facetious remark.

[CheffoJeffo]

If there are statistics, I'm not interested in finding them.

You know what you can do with your stats.

Coincidence ?

 

[MaximRecoil]

You couldn't even break those little spot welds Cheffo? Maybe you need a bigger hammer, or some more beans behind it (lol).

[SavannahLion]

By the way, your trap and bait argument doesn't work out very well.

It works fine. You would need to explain why it doesn't work, logically, in order for you to have an argument here—you know, rather than simply proclaiming it "as thus."

Besides the notion that you've defined trap inclusive with bait?

These guys might be ---uvulas---, but they got you by the Pavlovian bells.

Impossible. In an argument, you can't both have someone "by the Pavlovian bells", and be on the wrong side of the argument, simultaneously.

Additionally, in case you haven't noticed, arguing is one of my favorite things to do, which further negates the "bait/trap" aspect...e.g., "Ha, you fell into my trap. I left money on the table with your name on it, as bait, and you took it! Wait until you see my next trap!"

Yeah, we know you love to argue. We're all taking advantage of that. C'mon Pavlov, shake those bells.

Is there more popcorn?

[MaximRecoil]

Besides the notion that you've defined trap inclusive with bait?

Say what? I defined so-called "bait" without as trap as simply "free food". In other words, if you claim to be baiting someone or something, yet there is no trap, then you aren't really baiting, now are you? You are just setting something out there free for the taking.

Yeah, we know you love to argue. We're all taking advantage of that. C'mon Pavlov, shake those bells.

You do realize that I could say the exact same thing to you, right? As you think on that a bit, and the light bulb above your head begins to glow, I expect you'll come to the realization that your child-like sense of reasoning has failed you yet again.

[brandon]

- When a major, fundamental component of a structure or assembly fails. For example, blow your motor and your car is broken, or more commonly known as "broken down" when referring to cars.

but see..  a switch IS a fundamental component of a joystick... I mean, if you went to the arcade operator and said "umm.. Ms Pacman man wont go up!"  would he say.. "What? there's nothing wrong with that joystick shaft!"  I mean.. no ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.. "consumable" or not its necessary for the device to operate.  By your definition an engine in a car could be consumable.  It can be replaced, they wear out.  Rear ends, axles, wheel bearings.. all consumable and replaceable.

[Zakk]

MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

So once and for all, we can allll see why Maxi can never, honestly, prove his point.  He knows it, just won't admit it. 












5...4...3...2...1   

[SavannahLion]

MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

So once and for all, we can allll see why Maxi can never, honestly, prove his point.  He knows it, just won't admit it. 

Hey! That child-like reasoning has failed you. So as that Chinese made flourescent flickers to life, you'll... errr... how does it go again?

[MaximRecoil]

but see..  a switch IS a fundamental component of a joystick... I mean, if you went to the arcade operator and said "umm.. Ms Pacman man wont go up!"  would he say.. "What? there's nothing wrong with that joystick shaft!"  I mean.. no ---Cleveland steamer---.. "consumable" or not its necessary for the device to operate.  By your definition an engine in a car could be consumable.  It can be replaced, they wear out.  Rear ends, axles, wheel bearings.. all consumable and replaceable.

Common sense rules the day here; it is how a general consensus is formed regarding language usage.

And like I mentioned earlier, the more someone understands a problem, the less likely someone is to blindly refer to something as "broken" just because it isn't working right. E.g., in your example, while you may think the joystick is "broken" because Pac-Man won't go up, the operator that you tell about it is likely going to think "worn-out microswitch" and replace the sub-dollar consumable part in about a minute's time.

Lots of things don't work when one of their consumable parts fail, e.g., when a light bulb blows. I already know that people don't generally refer to such a condition as a "broken lamp", despite the fact that the lamp doesn't work—but feel free to try and convince me otherwise, lol.

[MaximRecoil]

MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

I just thought I'd point out that your editorial piece here has nothing to do with anything of relevance in this argument. I should also point out that you are one of the people who have consistently been confused about what this argument is about in the first place.

[Zakk]

MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

I just thought I'd point out that your editorial piece here has nothing to do with anything of relevance in this argument. I should also point out that you are one of the people who have consistently been confused about what this argument is about in the first place.

No no, I've consistently been the one that's been right.  That's the frustrating part isn't it?

If it makes you feel any better, I honestly and TRULY couldn't care less about your fetish over those silly sticks.  You're just fun.  Let's have cake! 

[brandon]

when Maxim was a kid he was play ball in the backyard and accidently threw a ball through the kitchen window..  His mother said " Son!  Since you broke the window you're grounded from Atari for a week!"
--

"But mom!  Its not broken!  It just needs to be refurbished with a consumable pane of glass!"

---

SLAP!  "Make that two weeks!"

[brandon]

BTW, feel free to email this guy and tell him he misnamed his site http://www.thebrokenjoystick.com/

After all, there is no such thing as a broken joystick!  Every part is replaceble..  Duh!  Why didn't he name his site www.unrefurbishedjoystick.com  what a silly man he is!

[Zakk]

MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

So once and for all, we can allll see why Maxi can never, honestly, prove his point.  He knows it, just won't admit it. 

Hey! That child-like reasoning has failed you. So as that Chinese made flourescent flickers to life, you'll... errr... how does it go again?

Just so everyone knows, I was just joking, I don't really have anything against Japanese merchandise (well I DO seem to hate nintendo joysticks for some reason, but other than that...).   

[MaximRecoil]

No no, I've consistently been the one that's been right.  That's the frustrating part isn't it?

Right about what? You'd have to be on the right page before you can even think about being right.

In an argument about language usage, you post an editorial about Japanese quality compared to American quality, lol.    

[MaximRecoil]

when Maxim was a kid he was play ball in the backyard and accidently threw a ball through the kitchen window..  His mother said " Son!  Since you broke the window you're grounded from Atari for a week!"
--

"But mom!  Its not broken!  It just needs to be refurbished with a consumable pane of glass!"


BTW, feel free to email this guy and tell him he misnamed his site http://www.thebrokenjoystick.com/

After all, there is no such thing as a broken joystick!  Every part is replaceble..  Duh!  Why didn't he name his site www.unrefurbishedjoystick.com   what a silly man he is!

I see you've constructed a straw man. Bravo.

[Zakk]

No no, I've consistently been the one that's been right.  That's the frustrating part isn't it?

Right about what? You'd have to be on the right page before you can even think about being right.

In an argument about language usage, you post an editorial about Japanese quality compared to American quality, lol.   

It was also correctedly properishnessly filled with opiousness amounts of real fresh goodnessbits.  The way I see it, I've been generally makings as much of sense than you have in these threads.  LOL

[brandon]

I see you've constructed a straw man. Bravo.

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:


 

[brandon]

dude.. that things not broken!  just needs a couple switches, and a shaft and a spring... why burn a PERFECTLY good joystick?

[SavannahLion]

dude.. that things not broken!  just needs a couple switches, and a shaft and a spring... why burn a PERFECTLY good joystick?

Burning the joystick is part of the refurbishing restoration process.

[markrvp]

Nintendo joysticks are teh suxxorz.

[ChadTower]

I'm going to start swapping all the Nintendo sticks I see with these.

[brandon]

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 

...  

[leapinlew]

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 

... 

Brandon, we already know how this goes... he defines broken as beyond repair. I define it as "not functioning properly; out of working order" which just so happens to be the same definition you'll see in the dictionary.

If I walk up to an arcade machine and the joystick doesn't allow movement in any direction - to me, that joystick is broke. Sure, it just might need proper grounding, but until it gets "fixed" it's broke.

[MaximRecoil]

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 

...  

What type of joystick? For a Nintendo joystick, if anything fails on it aside from a microswitch or the spring (both inexpensive, non-proprietary consumables), then it could be considered "broken"—or in cases of excessive wear & tear of a component rather than complete failure: "worn out."

The same could apply to most any arcade joystick, just substitute "grommet" for "spring" and "leaf switch" for "microswitch" as the case may be.

A couple of examples of sticks that are known to wear out or break: Wico's (rounded out restrictors), and Seimitsu/SNK LS-30's (excessive wear on the proprietary nylon bearing points in the mechanism; failed, worn, or gunked up sealed, proprietary rotary switches; rounded out/worn post/bracket assemblies).

An example of a stick that is not known to wear out or break: Nintendo joystick

[SavannahLion]

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 

... 

Brandon, we already know how this goes... he defines broken as beyond repair. I define it as "not functioning properly; out of working order" which just so happens to be the same definition you'll see in the dictionary.

leapinlew, it's not the same dictionary he's using. His dictionary has very narrow definitions of, "restoration," "refurbished," "broken," "bait," and, "trap."

[MaximRecoil]

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 

... 

Brandon, we already know how this goes... he defines broken as beyond repair. I define it as "not functioning properly; out of working order" which just so happens to be the same definition you'll see in the dictionary.

leapinlew, it's not the same dictionary he's using. His dictionary has very narrow definitions of, "restoration," "refurbished," "broken," "bait," and, "trap."

A dictionary is not a language usage guide.

And do you seriously think that there can be "bait" without a trap? If so, you clearly don't understand the concept of "bait."

I know that you are easily confused so I should point out that you can have a trap without bait.

[brandon]

well see.. I lived in Florida for 15 years.. right on the Gulf... You could easily go to the county pier and buy some bait.  Shrimp, squid, whatever..  It was in little bags or plastic containers.  You could walk out the door with bait in your hand.. but there was no trap.  So there ya go.. you CAN have bait without a trap.  You can put it on a hook.   I hook is not a trap is it?  The fish isnt cornered.  He's out in the wide open ocean but he just can't resist coming up to take a bite

[ChadTower]

And do you seriously think that there can be "bait" without a trap? If so, you clearly don't understand the concept of "bait."

There sure can be... we used to set out bait for bears back home all the time... mostly to lure them away from the places we didn't want them to be.  No traps, just bait.

[CheffoJeffo]

I knew Maxim was hanging around and he'll bite at that bit of bait every single time

My apologies ... I guess that my representation of baiting Maxim was incorrect .... I should have given it more thought.

I knew Maxim was hanging around and that the nature of postings concerning broken Nintendo joysticks in this thread would almost certainly guarantee that he would respond as a pedantic ---meecrob---.

Is that better ?

 

[MaximRecoil]

well see.. I lived in Florida for 15 years.. right on the Gulf... You could easily go to the county pier and buy some bait.  Shrimp, squid, whatever..  It was in little bags or plastic containers.  You could walk out the door with bait in your hand.. but there was no trap.  So there ya go.. you CAN have bait without a trap.  You can put it on a hook.   I hook is not a trap is it?  The fish isnt cornered.  He's out in the wide open ocean but he just can't resist coming up to take a bite

First of all, yes, a hook is a trap. And you are confused with the difference between something (like worms) being called "bait" because it is being sold or otherwise acquired for use as bait; and actually using something as bait. To use something as bait, there must be a trap. If there is no trap, the "bait" is simply free food.

And do you seriously think that there can be "bait" without a trap? If so, you clearly don't understand the concept of "bait."

There sure can be... we used to set out bait for bears back home all the time... mostly to lure them away from the places we didn't want them to be.  No traps, just bait.

You were simply feeding the bears. If you'd intended to wait for them in the place you set the food in order to shoot them, then it would have been bait.

[ChadTower]

You were simply feeding the bears. If you'd intended to wait for them in the place you set the food in order to shoot them, then it would have been bait.

Erm, no... we were luring them away from specific places by using bait to direct them elsewhere. 

FWIW, bears love broken Nintendo joysticks, works every time.

[SavannahLion]

And do you seriously think that there can be "bait" without a trap? If so, you clearly don't understand the concept of "bait."

I know that you are easily confused so I should point out that you can have a trap without bait.

Others have pointed out the concept of bait without a trap. Other instances of baits without traps are photographing wild animals and flea dusting wild rodents. If your self proclaimed vast resource of knowledge lacks the understanding of what photography and flea powder has to do with bait, feel free to ask.

I know that you are insistent in misinterpreting your confusion as my own, so I'll point out that your conceptualization of "trap" and "bait" are incomplete and therefor flawed. I strongly suggest you reconsider renewing your education on simple matters such as this.

[MaximRecoil]

Erm, no... we were luring them away from specific places by using bait to direct them elsewhere. 

FWIW, bears love broken Nintendo joysticks, works every time.

That's just called a "reward". People do it with dogs all the time:

"Come here Fido!"

(dog ignores command)

"Come here Fido!" *holds a dog biscuit*

(dog obeys command)

[brandon]

FWIW, bears love broken Nintendo joysticks, works every time.

If you set them on fire they can smell it from miles away

[MaximRecoil]

Others have pointed out the concept of bait without a trap.

Yes, incorrectly so.

Other instances of baits without traps are photographing wild animals and flea dusting wild rodents. If your self proclaimed vast resource of knowledge lacks the understanding of what photography and flea powder has to do with bait, feel free to ask.

You don't understand the difference between "bait" and "reward" or "incentive", as the words are commonly used in the English language. According to you, a weekly paycheck from your employer would be called "bait".

[CheffoJeffo]

That's just called a "reward". People do it with me all the time:

"Come here Maxim!"

(Maxim ignores command)

"Come here Maxim!" *makes comment about broken Nintendo joystick*

(Maxim obeys command)

fixt.

[SavannahLion]

So along with broken, CRT vs. LCD, and bait/trap, I think we can officially add the words reward and incentive to that list. This should be fun.  

I suspect this goads you as well. So here's a few of these  

And while I was typing:

That's just called a "reward". People do it with me all the time:

"Come here Maxim!"

(Maxim ignores command)

"Come here Maxim!" *makes comment about broken Nintendo joystick*

(Maxim obeys command)

fixt.

That deserves a  few more  . Holy crap, people in the office are asking me what's so funny. Stop, please stop. I only have to last another week here.

[ChadTower]

His reward is a free game on a Donkey Kong with a joystick that won't go right.

[MaximRecoil]

That's just called a "reward". People do it with me all the time:

"Show me a broken Nintendo joystick Cheffo."

(Cheffo ignores command)

"I said, show me a broken Nintendo joystick Cheffo!"

(Cheffo heckles)

[...]

(Cheffo starts getting frustrated with his inability to comply)

(Cheffo starts thinking that maybe he could destroy his own joystick with a hammer, because, "That'll show him!")

(Cheffo dismisses idea as stupid when he remembers that it is his own joystick)

(Cheffo forgets it is his own joystick as his frustration mounts)

(Cheffo yells "ARGH!!!" and grabs a hammer and proceeds to go loco on a joystick)

(Cheffo submits picture of his foolishness, relieved that he has finally complied with Maxim's command)

(Cheffo smacks himself on the head when he remembers the "manufacturer's intended usage" clause of the command)

Refixed