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Author Topic: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!  (Read 12825 times)

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CheffoJeffo

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« on: November 14, 2007, 03:53:22 pm »
If you can locate a used stick it will be much cheaper than that.  These sticks are ---smurfing--- tanks so you're not going to find a broken one.  They aren't made by Nintendo.

 ;)

* CheffoJeffo  waits for MaximRecoil to notice CT's comment ... pops some popcorn and pours a draft from the tap

My Tron stick cost me about $25 and the handle cost me about $55 (and included a CP and two-way stick). It takes some time, but the stuff is out there.
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MaximRecoil

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2007, 04:24:27 pm »
* CheffoJeffo  waits for MaximRecoil to notice CT's comment ... pops some popcorn and pours a draft from the tap

Chad's "broken Nintendo joystick" "jokes" are even cornier than the rest of you folks's, because he only recently jumped on the bandwagon - link

Oh, and I've changed my mind about Chad never jumping on the bandwagon (as mentioned earlier in that thread), lol.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 04:27:47 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 06:52:21 pm »
* CheffoJeffo  waits for MaximRecoil to notice CT's comment ... pops some popcorn and pours a draft from the tap

Chad's "broken Nintendo joystick" "jokes" are even cornier than the rest of you folks's, because he only recently jumped on the bandwagon - link

Oh, and I've changed my mind about Chad never jumping on the bandwagon (as mentioned earlier in that thread), lol.

damn.. I really hate I missed out on the whole "is it broken" debate...

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"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2007, 09:03:41 am »

I wasn't even aware of who that would tick off - I barely skimmed the original argument.  I just thought it was funny.

I still think it is funny.


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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2007, 09:12:37 am »

I wasn't even aware of who that would tick off - I barely skimmed the original argument.  I just thought it was funny.

I still think it is funny.



yeah.. it is pretty funny!  what's also funny is that several "purist" restoring Donkey Kong cabinets went with Sanwa sticks instead...that should tell you something..  well, at least those are made in Japan ;)

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2007, 10:57:10 am »
yeah.. it is pretty funny!  what's also funny is that several "purist" restoring Donkey Kong cabinets went with Sanwa sticks instead...that should tell you something..  well, at least those are made in Japan ;)

That's a contradiction of terms. In other words, if you use 3rd party parts when "restoring" a machine, particularly when OEM parts are readily available, you are not a "purist" by default. And technically this is not "restoring", it is "refurbishing".

I think the joystick with the best feel is a Happ Competition like I have on my SFII machine, but I wouldn't put one on a Nintendo machine, even if they were available in a restricted 4-way version.

I don't care for rubber grommet-based leaf spring joysticks like the Wico, but if I had a machine that originally came with them, that is what I would use.

The all-black joysticks that came on Karate Champ machines were downright awful, but a Karate Champ isn't right IMO without them.

But then, this isn't a restoration oriented site anyway. It is a "BYO" site...

The argument was never about "feel" anyway (except to people who were confused about what the argument was about). It was about how the word "broken" is actually used. People were claiming that a joystick with a broken microswitch was a "broken joystick", which is like claiming that a guitar with a broken string is a "broken guitar".

There is really nothing, aside from the microswitches and the spring, on a Nintendo joystick that can break from gameplay usage. The steel shaft obviously is not going to snap in two. The steel base obviously is not going to crumple. The 3/8" steel bearing is not going to erode away to nothing, or be torn loose from its integrated-into-the-base socket/race.

And the component that started the argument in the first place—the relatively thick steel restrictor plate—is not going to wear out...ever (unlike the restrictor on a 4-way Wico which can/will round out, creating an intermittent 8-way in the process).

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 11:00:41 am »

It's like a little boy saying that he broke his wookie after falling down - really, all he did was bend it.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 11:06:59 am »
MEDIC!!! WE NEED A THREAD MEDIC OVER HERE!!!!

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007, 11:09:38 am »

Just toss the whole diorama into the fireplace.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2007, 11:25:04 am »
If you can locate a used stick it will be much cheaper than that.  These sticks are ---smurfing--- tanks so you're not going to find a broken one.  They aren't made by Nintendo.

 ;)

* CheffoJeffo  waits for MaximRecoil to notice CT's comment ... pops some popcorn and pours a draft from the tap

My Tron stick cost me about $25 and the handle cost me about $55 (and included a CP and two-way stick). It takes some time, but the stuff is out there.

I don't know why I'm contributing to the derail of this thread, but... WOW Cheffo, over the past several months since the "debate"  I've seen many jabs about the joysticks, and the only time I see somebody joke that it's going to flair back up is now, and you were right.  Any ideas about some up coming lotto numbers you'd be willing to share?

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2007, 11:27:35 am »
Trolling in this thread split. Non-trolling in the other thread split.
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2007, 11:31:41 am »

Abortions for some, miniature american flags for others!

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2007, 11:37:03 am »
Trolling in this thread split. Non-trolling in the other thread split.

Did this post give anyone else a headache? Sounds like caveman talk. ;D

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2007, 01:11:26 pm »
WOW Cheffo, over the past several months since the "debate"  I've seen many jabs about the joysticks, and the only time I see somebody joke that it's going to flair back up is now, and you were right.  Any ideas about some up coming lotto numbers you'd be willing to share?

Pshaw ... it was nothing ... I knew Maxim was hanging around and he'll bite at that bit of bait every single time (he's even more predictable than genesim and a discussion of LCD vs CRT or MK vs SF).

As for lottery numbers ... 1,2,3,8,9,13 ... they haven't worked for me, but YMMV.

EDIT: How did I get the distinction of heading the troll thread ? It was CT's jab, not mine (although I did appreciate it).
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 01:13:06 pm by CheffoJeffo »
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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2007, 01:44:12 pm »

 People were claiming that a joystick with a broken microswitch was a "broken joystick", which is like claiming that a guitar with a broken string is a "broken guitar".

well.. that's not a very good analogy though..  I change my strings at least every two weeks at a cost that's less than 1% of the total value of the guitar.   Its not economical to repair a Nintendo joystick that's totally shot and the parts cost more than a newer, more durable balltop stick like a Sanwa.   Besides, after all the trouble of sourcing parts and disassembling and reassembling the thing you still just have a ---smurfy--- Nintendo joystick ;)   Maybe they were designed to be used by arthritic old ladies or something...

but at any rate.. how do you define broken?  by your definition not many things are truely broken.  What if a guitar had a broken neck?  this actually happens commonly enough.  It happened to me.  The guitar actually still held string tension and was playable.  was it broken? it was functional..  what would have to happen to it before it was considered broken?  Every part is available.. if nothing was left but a a few tuner pegs you could still buy the parts to "fix" it.


It reminds me of a story my dad told about how he used to repair servo motors for CNC equipment.  THe guy sent in an empty case and said he need his servo fixed...  Dad told him that there was nothing there and the parts to basically build one from scratch would cost about three time what a new unit cost.  The guy agree to pay it anyway.. Why?  because the company only had money in the budget for repairs not for purchasing new units.  :D  wish I had that kind of money to waste...

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 02:04:02 pm »
* CheffoJeffo  waits for MaximRecoil to notice brandon's comment ... pops some popcorn and pours a draft from the tap
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 03:45:22 pm »
When a guitar string snaps, the guitar is "broken" until the string is replaced.

Straight from the dictionary:
Broken: not functioning properly; out of working order.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 03:48:01 pm »
When a microswitch malfunctions on a nintendo joystick, the "joystick" is "broken". The "shaft", the "body", the "actuator", the "bearing", the "restrictor", etc - are not "broken".

........

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 04:30:09 pm »
WOW Cheffo, over the past several months since the "debate"  I've seen many jabs about the joysticks, and the only time I see somebody joke that it's going to flair back up is now, and you were right.  Any ideas about some up coming lotto numbers you'd be willing to share?

Pshaw ... it was nothing ... I knew Maxim was hanging around and he'll bite at that bit of bait every single time (he's even more predictable than genesim and a discussion of LCD vs CRT or MK vs SF).

LOL @ "bait". Let me explain something; "bait" without a trap is just free food.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 04:41:06 pm »

AKA trolling.

The trap is the pavlovian response itself. 

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2007, 04:46:30 pm »

 People were claiming that a joystick with a broken microswitch was a "broken joystick", which is like claiming that a guitar with a broken string is a "broken guitar".

well.. that's not a very good analogy though..  I change my strings at least every two weeks at a cost that's less than 1% of the total value of the guitar.

The analogy was valid. Another analogy would be a tennis racket with a broken string.

BTW, what does a microswitch cost? What does a spring cost? Most people in this hobby have those things kicking around the house anyway. Neither part is ever likely to break under home use anyway, since they last for years under arcade use.

Quote
Its not economical to repair a Nintendo joystick that's totally shot and the parts cost more than a newer, more durable balltop stick like a Sanwa.

First, there is no such thing as a "Nintendo joystick that's totally shot", except for the one that Cheffo took a big hammer to out of frustration. Even then, the only thing major he did was bend the base. Oh, and Sanwa's are not "more durable". In case you didn't notice, they use microswitches and springs too, which are just as prone to breaking as the ones in any other joystick.

Quote
Besides, after all the trouble of sourcing parts and disassembling and reassembling the thing you still just have a ---smurfy--- Nintendo joystick ;)   Maybe they were designed to be used by arthritic old ladies or something...

Yes, sourcing microswitches and springs is quite a bit of trouble (lol).

Quote
but at any rate.. how do you define broken?  by your definition not many things are truely broken.  What if a guitar had a broken neck?  this actually happens commonly enough.  It happened to me.  The guitar actually still held string tension and was playable.  was it broken? it was functional..  what would have to happen to it before it was considered broken?  Every part is available.. if nothing was left but a a few tuner pegs you could still buy the parts to "fix" it.

If you want to know the definition of "broken" then look it up (keep in mind that the dictionary is not a usage guide). However, if you haven't figured out how people actually use the word in everyday language, by this stage in your life, then I don't know what to tell you.

When a microswitch malfunctions on a nintendo joystick, the "joystick" is "broken". The "shaft", the "body", the "actuator", the "bearing", the "restrictor", etc - are not "broken".
 
When a guitar string snaps, the guitar is "broken" until the string is replaced.

Yet another person who confuses a dictionary definition with actual language usage. Here is what you can do, since you have apparently been confusing people you know with your incorrect take on how the word "broken" should be applied: go to a guitar or tennis forum. Make a post saying, "I broke my guitar" or "I broke my tennis racket". Then post a picture of a perfectly intact racket or guitar, with a little arrow pointing to the broken string. See if you don't get told something along the lines of "You didn't break the racket/guitar, you simply broke a string."
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 05:00:54 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2007, 04:53:34 pm »

AKA trolling.

The trap is the pavlovian response itself. 

Apparently you think you can redefine the word "trap". You can't. There is only a trap if I am being compelled by your "bait" into a compromising position. Since none of you "broken Nintendo joystick" types can get the upper hand in an argument with me (some of you will soon resort to simple "heckling", I can see it with a prophet's ken, lol), there is no compromising position, therefore, no trap.

You can't "trap" someone into being on the correct side of an argument.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2007, 04:56:02 pm »
Can we get this guy a custom title already?

Seriously, I think Saint also has his popcorn and beverage of choice ready. Why else would he keep this part of the thread instead of trashing it? ;)

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2007, 06:03:06 pm »
Mmmmm ...
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2007, 06:28:32 pm »
 Hi Maxim!
:D

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2007, 07:16:23 pm »
--- John St.Clair
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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2007, 07:18:06 pm »
Make a post saying, "I broke my guitar" or "I broke my tennis racket". Then post a picture of a perfectly intact racket or guitar, with a little arrow pointing to the broken string. See if you don't get told something along the lines of "You didn't break the racket/guitar, you simply broke a string."

but there again.. broken guitar strings are a very common occurance..  even if they dont break they get "crusty" from gunk, dead skin, corrosion... within a week or two.  on the other hand I've NEVER had to change a microswitch on a joystick..  now, I'm sure that in an arcade they wear out all the time but not with the frequency of once a week.  you can buy a Happs stick for what $7.95 ?  That's practically disposible.    Here it is in a nutshell... I joystick with broken switches or springs is in need of repair  aka BROKEN

BTW, Did a search for broken Tennis racket and this is the first thing that came up...



and again.. rethreading a Tennis racquet isn't as simple as changing strings on a guitar. In fact, it costs about half the cost of a brand new racquet at Walmart... SO..

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2007, 07:20:32 pm »
Post zinc.

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/23.htm


so you sacrificed this thread to save the others?  are Nintendo sticks made of Zinc?  ;)

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2007, 07:42:52 pm »
Post zinc.

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/23.htm

OK ... that is weird (or maybe jsut that time of year) ... the topic of zincs came up in my RealLife(tm) just yesterday ...

That saint, he is all-knowing,

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2007, 08:11:13 pm »
It's not broken!
Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2007, 08:53:07 pm »
Here I go eating the troll bait, but I'd like to point out that strings on a guitar and a tennis racquet are consumable items like brakes on a car, stickies on a 3M lint roller, or caps in a monitor.

Microswitches obviously have to be cleaned/replaced all the time as a part of regular maintenance. How many games have you played with non-working directions or buttons over the years? Anyway, since an arcade proprietor most likely goes through a crapton of switches, wires, and buttons during the course of operation, they are in fact consumables in the coin operated industry. Therefore a broken microswitch does not a broken joystick make, it just needs a new microswitch. Now bust the shaft in half or rip the threads out of the balltop, then it's broken.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2007, 09:04:37 pm »

but there again.. broken guitar strings are a very common occurance..  even if they dont break they get "crusty" from gunk, dead skin, corrosion... within a week or two.  on the other hand I've NEVER had to change a microswitch on a joystick..  now, I'm sure that in an arcade they wear out all the time but not with the frequency of once a week.  you can buy a Happs stick for what $7.95 ?  That's practically disposible. 

What does this have to do with anything?

Quote
Here it is in a nutshell... I joystick with broken switches or springs is in need of repair  aka BROKEN

Like a lamp with a blown lightbulb is a "broken lamp"? LOL. Where do you come from that they talk that way?

Quote
BTW, Did a search for broken Tennis racket and this is the first thing that came up...


Followed by how many pictures of broken rackets?

Quote
and again.. rethreading a Tennis racquet isn't as simple as changing strings on a guitar. In fact, it costs about half the cost of a brand new racquet at Walmart... SO..

Again, what does that have to do with anything? BTW, it costs me about $2 to string a racket with basic "tournament nylon". In all the years I've been playing tennis and stringing rackets, I've never once heard someone refer to a broken string as a "broken racket".

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2007, 09:22:29 pm »
Mmmmm ...
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2007, 09:32:24 pm »
Here I go eating the troll bait, but I'd like to point out that strings on a guitar and a tennis racquet are consumable items like brakes on a car, stickies on a 3M lint roller, or caps in a monitor.

Microswitches obviously have to be cleaned/replaced all the time as a part of regular maintenance. How many games have you played with non-working directions or buttons over the years? Anyway, since an arcade proprietor most likely goes through a crapton of switches, wires, and buttons during the course of operation, they are in fact consumables in the coin operated industry. Therefore a broken microswitch does not a broken joystick make, it just needs a new microswitch. Now bust the shaft in half or rip the threads out of the balltop, then it's broken.

That's exactly right, and it is what I have been saying all along. I have already used the "brakes on a car" analogy in the past.

To sum up how the word "broken" is actually used by native English speakers who are not being deliberately obtuse:

- When something doesn't work and the person describing it as "broken" has no idea what is wrong with it. Auto mechanics like to take these types for a ride.

- When a solid object is stressed to the point that it fractures into multiple smaller objects. For example, snap a stick in two and it is broken. Drop a glass on the floor so that it shatters; it is broken.

- When a major, fundamental component of a structure or assembly fails. For example, blow your motor and your car is broken, or more commonly known as "broken down" when referring to cars.

People do not generally refer items with consumables that need to be replaced (and are user-replaceable) as "broken", unless they haven't got a clue (see above). Typical consumables include light bulbs, batteries, filters, springs & shocks, tires, etc.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2007, 09:53:08 pm »
Every. Single. Time.



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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2007, 10:04:45 pm »
yeah.. it is pretty funny!  what's also funny is that several "purist" restoring Donkey Kong cabinets went with Sanwa sticks instead...that should tell you something..  well, at least those are made in Japan ;)

That's a contradiction of terms. In other words, if you use 3rd party parts when "restoring" a machine, particularly when OEM parts are readily available, you are not a "purist" by default. And technically this is not "restoring", it is "refurbishing".

I've got this red Donkey Kong that I'm trying to restore. What do I need to do with it to get it back to it's original state?

Restoration is a very flexible term since its meaning tends to change in subtle ways from field to field. In some fields, such as paint restoration, it means exactly what it implies, the repair of a painting back to its original or near original state.

However, when archiving, restoration doesn't necessarily mean restoring back to the original state. As implied above, this is undesirable for many items since it is considered an alteration. Therefor restoration is often used to specify functional restoration. This has slightly different connotation than an actual repair... or as you so desire, a refurbishing.

In other fields, true restoration is understood to be impossible or even undesirable. For instance, many car enthusiasts restore classic or antique automobiles. A GTO might have a fiberglass body held in place with steel clips. Those steel clips tended to rust badly. NOS OEM clips are available, but are undesirable to use. Preference is for third party clips made from stainless steel. All of these cars are still considered restored, even though their individual parts may not be OEM. Another field includes the restoration of antique lamps. Old wires were insulated in cotton or silk. In their original state, a person would be utterly insane to plug such a lamp in. Obtaining original cloth insulated wiring is still feasible (I have such a roll at home). However, using such cords is undesirable, even for true restoration work. The preferred method is to replace such wiring with standard rubber/plastic insulated. If the look of cloth wound is still desired, it's preferred to jacket modern wiring giving the appearance of cloth insulated wiring, such as those offerings from Sundial.

By your narrow (albeit one of several correct) definition of restoration, nearly every single cabinet in the hands of every collector is not a restoration but a refurbishing. As soon as someone uses a cap, a spring, or even a Star Wars yoke or a TRON joystick from a different manufacturer that breaks your extremely narrow definition of the word. In practical usage, my cabinet is a restoration, even though I didn't use the same monitor(s). By the definition of my professional (and higher paid) coworkers, I've restored a Dictabelt despite not using any OEM parts. In fact, as bound by a contract, I am unable to modify said machine with modern parts if it conflicts with the restoration process.

By the way, your trap and bait argument doesn't work out very well. These guys might be ---uvulas---, but they got you by the Pavlovian bells.


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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2007, 10:25:10 pm »
Can't we just say "fix" ?

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2007, 10:25:50 pm »
In other fields, true restoration is understood to be impossible or even undesirable. For instance, many car enthusiasts restore classic or antique automobiles. A GTO might have a fiberglass body held in place with steel clips. Those steel clips tended to rust badly. NOS OEM clips are available, but are undesirable to use. Preference is for third party clips made from stainless steel. All of these cars are still considered restored, even though their individual parts may not be OEM. Another field includes the restoration of antique lamps. Old wires were insulated in cotton or silk. In their original state, a person would be utterly insane to plug such a lamp in. Obtaining original cloth insulated wiring is still feasible (I have such a roll at home). However, using such cords is undesirable, even for true restoration work. The preferred method is to replace such wiring with standard rubber/plastic insulated. If the look of cloth wound is still desired, it's preferred to jacket modern wiring giving the appearance of cloth insulated wiring, such as those offerings from Sundial.

Talk to a Mopar concours guy. GM and Ford guys are well known to play fast and loose with both the word "restoration" and the restoration itself. Mopar guys like correctly date-coded radiator hoses, reproduced factory overspray and grease pencil markings from the assembly line, and things of that nature.

Quote
By your narrow (albeit one of several correct) definition of restoration, nearly every single cabinet in the hands of every collector is not a restoration but a refurbishing. As soon as someone uses a cap, a spring, or even a Star Wars yoke or a TRON joystick from a different manufacturer that breaks your extremely narrow definition of the word. In practical usage, my cabinet is a restoration, even though I didn't use the same monitor(s). By the definition of my professional (and higher paid) coworkers, I've restored a Dictabelt despite not using any OEM parts. In fact, as bound by a contract, I am unable to modify said machine with modern parts if it conflicts with the restoration process.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. When it is something blatantly obvious like the wrong joystick, it clearly falls into the "refurbishment" category.

Quote
By the way, your trap and bait argument doesn't work out very well.

It works fine. You would need to explain why it doesn't work, logically, in order for you to have an argument here—you know, rather than simply proclaiming it "as thus."

Quote
These guys might be ---uvulas---, but they got you by the Pavlovian bells.

Impossible. In an argument, you can't both have someone "by the Pavlovian bells", and be on the wrong side of the argument, simultaneously.

Additionally, in case you haven't noticed, arguing is one of my favorite things to do, which further negates the "bait/trap" aspect...e.g., "Ha, you fell into my trap. I left money on the table with your name on it, as bait, and you took it! Wait until you see my next trap!"
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 10:31:16 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2007, 10:36:59 pm »
Talk to a Mopar concours guy. GM and Ford guys are well known to play fast and loose with both the word "restoration" and the restoration itself. Mopar guys like correctly date-coded radiator hoses, reproduced factory overspray and grease pencil markings from the assembly line, and things of that nature.

Oh great, now you're gonna get the car guys going - I'm a GM guy, and I can tell you that the grand generalization you are extolling is most likely based on absolutely no statistics. Talk to an old 'Vette owner - I think the phrase you are really looking for is a "numbers matching" resto - and anybody can do that, show me some numbers that prove the Mopar guys have this locked up...

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2007, 10:46:35 pm »
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2007, 10:48:25 pm »

Oh great, now you're gonna get the car guys going - I'm a GM guy, and I can tell you that the grand generalization you are extolling is most likely based on absolutely no statistics. Talk to an old 'Vette owner - I think the phrase you are really looking for is a "numbers matching" resto - and anybody can do that, show me some numbers that prove the Mopar guys have this locked up...

"Numbers matching" means very little. All that means is that it has the original block, transmission, fender tag, etc., and maybe it has a broadcast sheet. And no, the word I was looking for was "concours" [restoration], which is why I used it.

And you're right, I was simply taking a jab at Ford and GM guys. If there are statistics, I'm not interested in finding them. Consider it as a facetious remark.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2007, 10:52:31 pm »
If there are statistics, I'm not interested in finding them.

You know what you can do with your stats.

Coincidence ?

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2007, 10:53:31 pm »


You couldn't even break those little spot welds Cheffo? Maybe you need a bigger hammer, or some more beans behind it (lol).

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2007, 11:26:22 pm »
Quote
By the way, your trap and bait argument doesn't work out very well.

It works fine. You would need to explain why it doesn't work, logically, in order for you to have an argument here—you know, rather than simply proclaiming it "as thus."

Besides the notion that you've defined trap inclusive with bait?

Quote
Quote
These guys might be ---uvulas---, but they got you by the Pavlovian bells.

Impossible. In an argument, you can't both have someone "by the Pavlovian bells", and be on the wrong side of the argument, simultaneously.

Additionally, in case you haven't noticed, arguing is one of my favorite things to do, which further negates the "bait/trap" aspect...e.g., "Ha, you fell into my trap. I left money on the table with your name on it, as bait, and you took it! Wait until you see my next trap!"

Yeah, we know you love to argue. We're all taking advantage of that. C'mon Pavlov, shake those bells.

Is there more popcorn?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 11:28:16 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2007, 11:38:06 pm »

Besides the notion that you've defined trap inclusive with bait?

Say what? I defined so-called "bait" without as trap as simply "free food". In other words, if you claim to be baiting someone or something, yet there is no trap, then you aren't really baiting, now are you? You are just setting something out there free for the taking.

Quote
Yeah, we know you love to argue. We're all taking advantage of that. C'mon Pavlov, shake those bells.

You do realize that I could say the exact same thing to you, right? As you think on that a bit, and the light bulb above your head begins to glow, I expect you'll come to the realization that your child-like sense of reasoning has failed you yet again.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2007, 12:03:22 am »

- When a major, fundamental component of a structure or assembly fails. For example, blow your motor and your car is broken, or more commonly known as "broken down" when referring to cars.


but see..  a switch IS a fundamental component of a joystick... I mean, if you went to the arcade operator and said "umm.. Ms Pacman man wont go up!"  would he say.. "What? there's nothing wrong with that joystick shaft!"  I mean.. no ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.. "consumable" or not its necessary for the device to operate.  By your definition an engine in a car could be consumable.  It can be replaced, they wear out.  Rear ends, axles, wheel bearings.. all consumable and replaceable.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2007, 12:18:33 am »
MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

So once and for all, we can allll see why Maxi can never, honestly, prove his point.  He knows it, just won't admit it. 












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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2007, 12:23:06 am »
MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

So once and for all, we can allll see why Maxi can never, honestly, prove his point.  He knows it, just won't admit it. 

Hey! That child-like reasoning has failed you. So as that Chinese made flourescent flickers to life, you'll... errr... how does it go again?

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2007, 12:29:41 am »

but see..  a switch IS a fundamental component of a joystick... I mean, if you went to the arcade operator and said "umm.. Ms Pacman man wont go up!"  would he say.. "What? there's nothing wrong with that joystick shaft!"  I mean.. no ---Cleveland steamer---.. "consumable" or not its necessary for the device to operate.  By your definition an engine in a car could be consumable.  It can be replaced, they wear out.  Rear ends, axles, wheel bearings.. all consumable and replaceable.

Common sense rules the day here; it is how a general consensus is formed regarding language usage.

And like I mentioned earlier, the more someone understands a problem, the less likely someone is to blindly refer to something as "broken" just because it isn't working right. E.g., in your example, while you may think the joystick is "broken" because Pac-Man won't go up, the operator that you tell about it is likely going to think "worn-out microswitch" and replace the sub-dollar consumable part in about a minute's time.

Lots of things don't work when one of their consumable parts fail, e.g., when a light bulb blows. I already know that people don't generally refer to such a condition as a "broken lamp", despite the fact that the lamp doesn't work—but feel free to try and convince me otherwise, lol.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2007, 12:32:30 am »
MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

I just thought I'd point out that your editorial piece here has nothing to do with anything of relevance in this argument. I should also point out that you are one of the people who have consistently been confused about what this argument is about in the first place.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2007, 12:39:23 am »
MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

I just thought I'd point out that your editorial piece here has nothing to do with anything of relevance in this argument. I should also point out that you are one of the people who have consistently been confused about what this argument is about in the first place.

No no, I've consistently been the one that's been right.  That's the frustrating part isn't it?

If it makes you feel any better, I honestly and TRULY couldn't care less about your fetish over those silly sticks.  You're just fun.  Let's have cake! 
Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2007, 12:40:33 am »
when Maxim was a kid he was play ball in the backyard and accidently threw a ball through the kitchen window..  His mother said " Son!  Since you broke the window you're grounded from Atari for a week!"
--

"But mom!  Its not broken!  It just needs to be refurbished with a consumable pane of glass!"

---

SLAP!  :dizzy: "Make that two weeks!"
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 12:46:03 am by brandon »

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2007, 12:42:17 am »
BTW, feel free to email this guy and tell him he misnamed his site http://www.thebrokenjoystick.com/

After all, there is no such thing as a broken joystick!  Every part is replaceble..  Duh!  Why didn't he name his site www.unrefurbishedjoystick.com  ??? what a silly man he is! :D

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2007, 12:45:48 am »
MAxxi's argument will always fail, because EVERYONE knows that if it ain't made in the U.S. of effn A, then it's crap. 

Japscrap can't hold a candle to a US made joystick because it's made cheap.  They just don't make things of quality.  That joystick was forged from the husks of recycled rusty 80's hondas. Cheap and bulk. Plain and simple.

Ask Bruno if he'll trade his Harley for a yamihaw.   Or ask Chest Rockwell if he'll trade his Budweiser for a delicious sapporo. 

If  its not made by angry, overpaid union workers, it's just an illusion.  Better than a USA joystick?   AS-IF.

So once and for all, we can allll see why Maxi can never, honestly, prove his point.  He knows it, just won't admit it. 

Hey! That child-like reasoning has failed you. So as that Chinese made flourescent flickers to life, you'll... errr... how does it go again?

Just so everyone knows, I was just joking, I don't really have anything against Japanese merchandise (well I DO seem to hate nintendo joysticks for some reason, but other than that...).   ;D
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2007, 12:47:42 am »

No no, I've consistently been the one that's been right.  That's the frustrating part isn't it?

Right about what? You'd have to be on the right page before you can even think about being right.

In an argument about language usage, you post an editorial about Japanese quality compared to American quality, lol.    

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2007, 12:51:01 am »
when Maxim was a kid he was play ball in the backyard and accidently threw a ball through the kitchen window..  His mother said " Son!  Since you broke the window you're grounded from Atari for a week!"
--

"But mom!  Its not broken!  It just needs to be refurbished with a consumable pane of glass!"


BTW, feel free to email this guy and tell him he misnamed his site http://www.thebrokenjoystick.com/

After all, there is no such thing as a broken joystick!  Every part is replaceble..  Duh!  Why didn't he name his site www.unrefurbishedjoystick.com   what a silly man he is!

I see you've constructed a straw man. Bravo.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2007, 12:56:50 am »

No no, I've consistently been the one that's been right.  That's the frustrating part isn't it?

Right about what? You'd have to be on the right page before you can even think about being right.

In an argument about language usage, you post an editorial about Japanese quality compared to American quality, lol.   


It was also correctedly properishnessly filled with opiousness amounts of real fresh goodnessbits.  The way I see it, I've been generally makings as much of sense than you have in these threads.  LOL
Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2007, 01:25:02 am »
I see you've constructed a straw man. Bravo.

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:


 :dunno

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2007, 01:26:58 am »


dude.. that things not broken!  just needs a couple switches, and a shaft and a spring... why burn a PERFECTLY good joystick?

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2007, 01:36:03 am »


dude.. that things not broken!  just needs a couple switches, and a shaft and a spring... why burn a PERFECTLY good joystick?

Burning the joystick is part of the refurbishing restoration process.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2007, 09:13:19 am »
Nintendo joysticks are teh suxxorz.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2007, 09:15:40 am »
I'm going to start swapping all the Nintendo sticks I see with these.


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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2007, 11:47:36 am »

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2007, 01:08:52 pm »

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 :dunno
... 

Brandon, we already know how this goes... he defines broken as beyond repair. I define it as "not functioning properly; out of working order" which just so happens to be the same definition you'll see in the dictionary.

If I walk up to an arcade machine and the joystick doesn't allow movement in any direction - to me, that joystick is broke. Sure, it just might need proper grounding, but until it gets "fixed" it's broke.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2007, 01:12:36 pm »

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 :dunno
...  

What type of joystick? For a Nintendo joystick, if anything fails on it aside from a microswitch or the spring (both inexpensive, non-proprietary consumables), then it could be considered "broken"—or in cases of excessive wear & tear of a component rather than complete failure: "worn out."

The same could apply to most any arcade joystick, just substitute "grommet" for "spring" and "leaf switch" for "microswitch" as the case may be.

A couple of examples of sticks that are known to wear out or break: Wico's (rounded out restrictors), and Seimitsu/SNK LS-30's (excessive wear on the proprietary nylon bearing points in the mechanism; failed, worn, or gunked up sealed, proprietary rotary switches; rounded out/worn post/bracket assemblies).

An example of a stick that is not known to wear out or break: Nintendo joystick
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 01:17:25 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2007, 01:22:00 pm »

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 :dunno
... 

Brandon, we already know how this goes... he defines broken as beyond repair. I define it as "not functioning properly; out of working order" which just so happens to be the same definition you'll see in the dictionary.

leapinlew, it's not the same dictionary he's using. His dictionary has very narrow definitions of, "restoration," "refurbished," "broken," "bait," and, "trap."

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2007, 01:28:23 pm »

ok.. in your own word..  define a broken joystick:

 :dunno
... 

Brandon, we already know how this goes... he defines broken as beyond repair. I define it as "not functioning properly; out of working order" which just so happens to be the same definition you'll see in the dictionary.

leapinlew, it's not the same dictionary he's using. His dictionary has very narrow definitions of, "restoration," "refurbished," "broken," "bait," and, "trap."

A dictionary is not a language usage guide.

And do you seriously think that there can be "bait" without a trap? If so, you clearly don't understand the concept of "bait."

I know that you are easily confused so I should point out that you can have a trap without bait.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2007, 01:36:38 pm »
well see.. I lived in Florida for 15 years.. right on the Gulf... You could easily go to the county pier and buy some bait.  Shrimp, squid, whatever..  It was in little bags or plastic containers.  You could walk out the door with bait in your hand.. but there was no trap.  So there ya go.. you CAN have bait without a trap.  You can put it on a hook.   I hook is not a trap is it?  The fish isnt cornered.  He's out in the wide open ocean but he just can't resist coming up to take a bite :D

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2007, 01:40:47 pm »
And do you seriously think that there can be "bait" without a trap? If so, you clearly don't understand the concept of "bait."

There sure can be... we used to set out bait for bears back home all the time... mostly to lure them away from the places we didn't want them to be.  No traps, just bait.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2007, 01:47:16 pm »
I knew Maxim was hanging around and he'll bite at that bit of bait every single time

My apologies ... I guess that my representation of baiting Maxim was incorrect .... I should have given it more thought.

Quote
I knew Maxim was hanging around and that the nature of postings concerning broken Nintendo joysticks in this thread would almost certainly guarantee that he would respond as a pedantic ---meecrob---.

Is that better ?

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2007, 02:29:37 pm »
well see.. I lived in Florida for 15 years.. right on the Gulf... You could easily go to the county pier and buy some bait.  Shrimp, squid, whatever..  It was in little bags or plastic containers.  You could walk out the door with bait in your hand.. but there was no trap.  So there ya go.. you CAN have bait without a trap.  You can put it on a hook.   I hook is not a trap is it?  The fish isnt cornered.  He's out in the wide open ocean but he just can't resist coming up to take a bite :D

First of all, yes, a hook is a trap. And you are confused with the difference between something (like worms) being called "bait" because it is being sold or otherwise acquired for use as bait; and actually using something as bait. To use something as bait, there must be a trap. If there is no trap, the "bait" is simply free food.

And do you seriously think that there can be "bait" without a trap? If so, you clearly don't understand the concept of "bait."

There sure can be... we used to set out bait for bears back home all the time... mostly to lure them away from the places we didn't want them to be.  No traps, just bait.


You were simply feeding the bears. If you'd intended to wait for them in the place you set the food in order to shoot them, then it would have been bait.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2007, 02:31:39 pm »
You were simply feeding the bears. If you'd intended to wait for them in the place you set the food in order to shoot them, then it would have been bait.


Erm, no... we were luring them away from specific places by using bait to direct them elsewhere. 

FWIW, bears love broken Nintendo joysticks, works every time.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2007, 02:37:33 pm »
And do you seriously think that there can be "bait" without a trap? If so, you clearly don't understand the concept of "bait."

I know that you are easily confused so I should point out that you can have a trap without bait.

Others have pointed out the concept of bait without a trap. Other instances of baits without traps are photographing wild animals and flea dusting wild rodents. If your self proclaimed vast resource of knowledge lacks the understanding of what photography and flea powder has to do with bait, feel free to ask.

I know that you are insistent in misinterpreting your confusion as my own, so I'll point out that your conceptualization of "trap" and "bait" are incomplete and therefor flawed. I strongly suggest you reconsider renewing your education on simple matters such as this.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2007, 02:40:40 pm »

Erm, no... we were luring them away from specific places by using bait to direct them elsewhere. 

FWIW, bears love broken Nintendo joysticks, works every time.

That's just called a "reward". People do it with dogs all the time:

"Come here Fido!"

(dog ignores command)

"Come here Fido!" *holds a dog biscuit*

(dog obeys command)

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2007, 02:42:55 pm »
FWIW, bears love broken Nintendo joysticks, works every time.

If you set them on fire they can smell it from miles away ;)

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2007, 02:46:08 pm »

Others have pointed out the concept of bait without a trap.

Yes, incorrectly so.

Quote
Other instances of baits without traps are photographing wild animals and flea dusting wild rodents. If your self proclaimed vast resource of knowledge lacks the understanding of what photography and flea powder has to do with bait, feel free to ask.

You don't understand the difference between "bait" and "reward" or "incentive", as the words are commonly used in the English language. According to you, a weekly paycheck from your employer would be called "bait".

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2007, 02:56:41 pm »
That's just called a "reward". People do it with me all the time:

"Come here Maxim!"

(Maxim ignores command)

"Come here Maxim!" *makes comment about broken Nintendo joystick*

(Maxim obeys command)

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2007, 03:00:43 pm »
So along with broken, CRT vs. LCD, and bait/trap, I think we can officially add the words reward and incentive to that list. This should be fun.  

I suspect this :laugh2: goads you as well. So here's a few of these  :laugh2: :laugh2:

And while I was typing:
That's just called a "reward". People do it with me all the time:

"Come here Maxim!"

(Maxim ignores command)

"Come here Maxim!" *makes comment about broken Nintendo joystick*

(Maxim obeys command)

fixt.

That deserves a  few more  :laugh2: :laugh2:. Holy crap, people in the office are asking me what's so funny. Stop, please stop. I only have to last another week here.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2007, 03:01:44 pm »
His reward is a free game on a Donkey Kong with a joystick that won't go right.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2007, 03:09:02 pm »
That's just called a "reward". People do it with me all the time:

"Show me a broken Nintendo joystick Cheffo."

(Cheffo ignores command)

"I said, show me a broken Nintendo joystick Cheffo!"

(Cheffo heckles)

[...]

(Cheffo starts getting frustrated with his inability to comply)

(Cheffo starts thinking that maybe he could destroy his own joystick with a hammer, because, "That'll show him!")

(Cheffo dismisses idea as stupid when he remembers that it is his own joystick)

(Cheffo forgets it is his own joystick as his frustration mounts)

(Cheffo yells "ARGH!!!" and grabs a hammer and proceeds to go loco on a joystick)

(Cheffo submits picture of his foolishness, relieved that he has finally complied with Maxim's command)

(Cheffo smacks himself on the head when he remembers the "manufacturer's intended usage" clause of the command)

Refixed
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 03:19:15 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2007, 03:18:36 pm »

That post wasn't broken, it just wore out its consumables.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #81 on: November 16, 2007, 03:24:51 pm »
That post wasn't broken, it just wore out its consumables.

To bring it down to a level the rest of us confused people with child-like reasoning can understand. When Cheffo did it, it was funny. When Maxim did it, it came off as being lame  ::)

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2007, 03:40:16 pm »
That post wasn't broken, it just wore out its consumables.

To bring it down to a level the rest of us confused people with child-like reasoning can understand. When Cheffo did it, it was funny. When Maxim did it, it came off as being lame  ::)

LOL. Insults directed at you or your buddies are always "lame", didn't you know that?

In any event, it wasn't a contest submission; it was simply a reenactment of an actual event. That Cheffo takes this forum so seriously as to destroy his own property because of some text on a screen; is pathetic; not to mention an indication of him being mentally imbalanced.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2007, 03:55:52 pm »
So along with broken, CRT vs. LCD, and bait/trap, I think we can officially add the words reward and incentive to that list. This should be fun. 

I suspect this :laugh2: goads you as well. So here's a few of these  :laugh2: :laugh2:

And while I was typing:
That's just called a "reward". People do it with me all the time:

"Come here Maxim!"

(Maxim ignores command)

"Come here Maxim!" *makes comment about broken Nintendo joystick*

(Maxim obeys command)

fixt.
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If you were made by nintendo, you would last forever. 
Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2007, 03:59:17 pm »

But he'd have no hands and feet before long and couldn't do his job.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2007, 04:04:42 pm »
That Cheffo takes this forum so seriously as to destroy his own property because of some text on a screen; is pathetic; not to mention an indication of him being mentally imbalanced.

I like to think of it as me not taking joysticks as seriously as you ... THAT obsession is an indication of mental imbalance.

GOOD NEWS ... help is available ...



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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2007, 04:05:51 pm »

But he'd have no hands and feet before long and couldn't do his job.

 :laugh2:  :laugh2:  :laugh2:  :laugh2:  :laugh2:  :laugh2:

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2007, 04:09:01 pm »

He'll never go in there.  That is also a bait shop.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2007, 04:11:22 pm »
But he'd have no hands and feet before long and couldn't do his job.

I don't do my job anyways... actually... I'm not really sure what my job is. So like a Nintendo joystick, nobody is really sure what I'm supposed to be doing. In any case, even if I did lose my hands and feet, they still couldn't fire me. They'll accomodate my needs by replacing my feet with switches and my hands with springs.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2007, 04:12:21 pm »


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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2007, 04:13:08 pm »
He'll never go in there.  That is also a bait shop.

Bait shop ---my bottom---, there's no trap shop. That's only a reward shop.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2007, 04:51:22 pm »
That Cheffo takes this forum so seriously as to destroy his own property because of some text on a screen; is pathetic; not to mention an indication of him being mentally imbalanced.

I like to think of it as me not taking joysticks as seriously as you ... THAT obsession is an indication of mental imbalance.

I'll argue about anything, whether it is joysticks or can openers. Arguments are easy when you start out on the correct side, regardless of the subject matter.

I reply to text on the screen with text on the screen. You reply to text on the screen by taking hostile action against classic arcade parts, lol.

Here is a song for you - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They're_Coming_to_Take_Me_Away_Ha-Haaa

As for the other posts from the various sideliners on this thread, I'm reminded of this post I made earlier:

(some of you will soon resort to simple "heckling", I can see it with a prophet's ken, lol)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 05:11:42 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2007, 05:30:40 pm »

But he'd have no hands and feet before long and couldn't do his job.

If your shaft is bent or your restrictor is worn out I dont want to know about it!! ;D

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2007, 06:25:40 pm »
Maxim has never completely grasped that we are laughing at him and not with him.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2007, 06:54:29 pm »
And the fact that HE is the sideliner.
Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #95 on: November 16, 2007, 06:56:00 pm »
Maxim has never completely grasped that we are laughing at him and not with him.

I think you say that every time this comes up. And of course, I always repeat the "Corky" analogy, or the primary school students laughing at their teacher analogy. In other words, I am not concerned about what simple folks laugh at.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #96 on: November 16, 2007, 06:58:41 pm »
And the fact that HE is the sideliner.

Again with your confusion, Archimedes.

In an argument, the people who are posting, but without arguments (i.e., heckling) are the non-participants, that is, sideliners—you know, like yourself. And the paper cups that you throw from the sidelines aren't particularly effective.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #97 on: November 16, 2007, 07:01:26 pm »
I think you say that every time this comes up. And of course, I always repeat the "Corky" analogy, or the primary school students laughing at their teacher analogy. In other words, I am not concerned about what simple folks laugh at.
Don't end you sentence with a preposition please, Corky.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #98 on: November 16, 2007, 07:07:38 pm »
Again with your confusion, Archimedes.

I thought he was Ptolemy ?

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #99 on: November 16, 2007, 07:11:23 pm »
I think you say that every time this comes up. And of course, I always repeat the "Corky" analogy, or the primary school students laughing at their teacher analogy. In other words, I am not concerned about what simple folks laugh at.

Don't end you sentence with a preposition please, Corky.

Ah, you're one of those guys that thinks that ending a sentence with a preposition is simply always incorrect because you heard that somewhere before?

I like Sir Winston Churchill's take on the matter:

Quote
On the subject of ending sentences with prepositions, people often recount a story involving Winston Churchill. When an editor dared to change a sentence of Churchill's that appeared to end inappropriately with a preposition, Churchill responded by writing to the editor, "This is the kind of impertinence up with which I shall not put." His purpose, of course, was to illustrate the awkwardness that can result from rigid adherence to the notion that prepositions at the end of sentences are always incorrect.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #100 on: November 16, 2007, 07:24:31 pm »
And the fact that HE is the sideliner.

Again with your confusion, Archimedes.

In an argument, the people who are posting, but without arguments (i.e., heckling) are the non-participants, that is, sideliners—you know, like yourself. And the paper cups that you throw from the sidelines aren't particularly effective.

Dude, You are so bull headed, that even I cannot continue to be amused by you.  Your main argument is "I'm right".  Nintendy joysticks only need repair, Wico joysticks break.  Of course, your whole basis is the fact that the metal base can't be broken.  So everything that can wear out on a Wico stick can wear out on a Nintendi stick too, but it's different somehow.  The spring wears out in a nindtedno stick, and the grommet wears in a Wico.  The shafts wear too, only they wear more on the Wico because people actually want to play those.  So it has nothing to do with the fact that even perfectly fine nontindeo sticks feel "broken" to people that have them, or the cheesy cheap-as-free microswitches feel like crap, that damn base won't break unless you take a hammer to it. 

If you're going to count ALL of the parts on a nimrhendo stick as relaceable (besides the honda base!), then why not just concede that you can replace the whole damn stick just as easily.  While you're at it, throw the thing away and put on a Wico so the game plays nicely, instead of all clicky-clacky bad.  hmmm?

Or hey, yell "I'm right and you all are wrong because really I just like to argue!!!", stick your fingers in your ears (or anywhere else for that matter), clap yourself on the back that you got ole Zakk to TAKE THE BAIT one last time, and then pretend that you're not tossing names and insults around just like everyone else.  Cuz hey, I have NEVER met anyone AS RIGHT as you are. 

Oh and I don't own a ninteedy stick, but I plan to stain at a holiday inn tomorrow (apologies to the maid in advance), so it makes me as big of an expert as you.  I'll even throw in the towel...well tomorrow, I'm not done with it yet today. 
Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #101 on: November 16, 2007, 07:29:57 pm »
That Archimedes Ptolemy Zakk is just mean!
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #102 on: November 16, 2007, 07:49:16 pm »
Maxim has never completely grasped that we are laughing at him and not with him.

I think you say that every time this comes up. And of course, I always repeat the "Corky" analogy, or the primary school students laughing at their teacher analogy. In other words, I am not concerned about what simple folks laugh at.

I've observed that people generally feel they are smarter than others.  It is most amusing to see stupid people that are this way.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #103 on: November 16, 2007, 07:56:42 pm »
In other words, I am not concerned about what simple folks laugh at.

This is why people laugh at you. You falsely regard yourself as either better or smarter than everyone else. This is the internet. You can't claim yourself as better, you need to prove it. So far, all you've done is proclaim yourself as a genius and everyone else as a moron. You have absolutely no humility, you can't even pretend to have humility. You just plow through posts, swallow the crap thrown out as bait, and try to make yourself look like a genius by retorting in some asinine manner. Hell, a seven year old has a better understanding of the social situation you painted yourself in.

It's now gotten to the point that you're so full of garbage that your mere presence just stinks things up.

The funniest part in all this? You're just going to come back with yet another one of your lame retorts and still be absolutely clueless.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #104 on: November 16, 2007, 08:11:15 pm »
I am now watching the sidelines from the stands in amusement. You guys baited Maxim and are now upset and calling him names because he ate all the bait and has come back for more over and over and it's not funny anymore. You've run out of bait because you realize that Max is a machine and cannot be stopped. You've egged on the beast and now you realize you cannot win, ever. MaximRecoil can't be reasoned with, he can't be bargained with...he doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear...and he absolutely will not stop defending Nintendo sticks. Ever.

 :laugh2: :laugh2:

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #105 on: November 16, 2007, 08:13:40 pm »
Ah, you're one of those guys that thinks that ending a sentence with a preposition is simply always incorrect because you heard that somewhere before?

No, but nice assumption.  I am someone who believes in proper grammar especially when someone else attempts to prove their superiority.


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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #106 on: November 16, 2007, 08:26:05 pm »

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #107 on: November 16, 2007, 08:31:40 pm »
You've run out of bait

You must be new ... we haven't even started talking about can openers yet!

MaximRecoil can't be reasoned with

No argument there.

It is fun to watch him make the same pedantic argument and insult as many people as he can in each new thread on this topic (what is this, 8 ?), as well as see the new folks who try to argue seriously when everybody else is just trying to bug him.
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #108 on: November 16, 2007, 08:35:31 pm »
heh. I think Maxim is alright. It's just that Nintendo Joysticks are his kryptonite and he flips out when he hears anything about nintendo joysticks being less than perfect.


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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #109 on: November 16, 2007, 08:59:01 pm »

But he'd have no hands and feet before long and couldn't do his job.

If your shaft is bent or your restrictor is worn out I dont want to know about it!! ;D

nobody?  oh come on... I thought it was funny... Maybe nobody else has the (grade school) sense of humor that I possess   ;)

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #110 on: November 16, 2007, 09:01:31 pm »
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=65687.0

Previous results on "broken"

Oh yeah I forgot all about that one.  We were ALLLL wrong, and he was right.  Silly me to forget.
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #111 on: November 16, 2007, 10:08:28 pm »

Dude, You are so bull headed, that even I cannot continue to be amused by you.  Your main argument is "I'm right".  Nintendy joysticks only need repair, Wico joysticks break.

No, that's not my argument. That's your inaccurate summary of my argument. In other words, a "straw man." Wico joysticks have a restrictor that can be rounded out eventually, in which case, the joystick would be considered "worn out". The restrictor is not a separate part that can be replaced. I would consider a Nintendo joystick to be "worn out" if it had a rounded out restrictor too, but that never happens. Nintendo used a heavier steel than Wico did for the restrictor. They also made it a separate component that can be solely replaced.

Quote
Of course, your whole basis is the fact that the metal base can't be broken.

This is another straw man.

Quote
So everything that can wear out on a Wico stick can wear out on a Nintendi stick too, but it's different somehow.

The main difference in durability is the restrictor. See above.

Quote
The spring wears out in a nindtedno stick, and the grommet wears in a Wico.  The shafts wear too, only they wear more on the Wico because people actually want to play those.

The shaft on a Nintendo joystick will never wear to a significant enough of a degree to affect performance. It is a solid steel rod. The same goes for a Wico joystick.

Quote
So it has nothing to do with the fact that even perfectly fine nontindeo sticks feel "broken" to people that have them, or the cheesy cheap-as-free microswitches feel like crap, that damn base won't break unless you take a hammer to it.

I think you'll find that anyone who thinks a Nintendo stick feels "broken" is probably missing the restrictor, or using the wrong restrictor for the game they are playing. Trying to play e.g., Donkey Kong with a Nintendo joystick that has an 8 way restrictor, or even worse, no restrictor at all, will give the impression of a broken stick, because Mario will be stopping and getting stuck on ladders a lot.  

Quote
If you're going to count ALL of the parts on a nimrhendo stick as relaceable (besides the honda base!),

I don't. Only the spring and microswitches. Apparently you haven't read the thread.

Quote
then why not just concede that you can replace the whole damn stick just as easily.  While you're at it, throw the thing away and put on a Wico so the game plays nicely, instead of all clicky-clacky bad.  hmmm?

The same reason that many people wouldn't put a 350 Chevy into a Road Runner.


No, but nice assumption.  I am someone who believes in proper grammar especially when someone else attempts to prove their superiority.

You apparantly missed the point. I know you *think* that it is always incorrect to end a sentence with a preposition, but this is not the case. And the specifics of this "rule" are debated even among grammar experts. One thing that most of them agree upon however, is that it is irrelevant except in professional writing.


This is why people laugh at you.

Why don't you tell me what it means when an idiot laughs?

Quote
You falsely regard yourself as either better or smarter than everyone else.

There are plenty of people smarter than me. However, you won't find them among the "broken Nintendo joystick" crowd. There is a reason for that. Someone smarter than me wouldn't position himself on the wrong side of an argument in the first place.

Quote
This is the internet. You can't claim yourself as better, you need to prove it.

Well, regarding intelligence, see above. An objective analysis of this thread, by someone smart enough to do so accurately, would show that the average member of the "broken Nintendo joystick" crowd, has some difficulties.

Quote
So far, all you've done is proclaim yourself as a genius and everyone else as a moron. You have absolutely no humility, you can't even pretend to have humility. You just plow through posts, swallow the crap thrown out as bait, and try to make yourself look like a genius by retorting in some asinine manner.

I don't consider someone to be a moron until they have established that they are a moron with their own text.

Quote
Hell, a seven year old has a better understanding of the social situation you painted yourself in.

You are confusing a lack of concern for a lack of understanding.   

Quote
It's now gotten to the point that you're so full of garbage that your mere presence just stinks things up.

It looks like you lose sleep over this sort of thing. Try not to go completely off the deep end and start destroying your property like Cheffo. It'll be alright. It is just text on a screen.

Quote
The funniest part in all this? You're just going to come back with yet another one of your lame retorts and still be absolutely clueless.

Feel free to point out where you (or anyone else) have established that I was wrong about anything.


I've observed that people generally feel they are smarter than others.  It is most amusing to see stupid people that are this way.

In all honesty Mark, you are the slowest person on this thread. Even Zakk is a genius compared to you.

heh. I think Maxim is alright. It's just that Nintendo Joysticks are his kryptonite and he flips out when he hears anything about nintendo joysticks being less than perfect.

My favorite joystick is a Happ Competition. This argument is not about, nor has it ever been about, whether or not Nintendo joysticks are perfect. The argument is about their durability, and what constitutes "broken". The same people that play fast and loose with the word "broken" are the ones that argue the durability aspect.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #112 on: November 17, 2007, 01:26:54 am »
It's long ass posts like that on a Friday night that still lead me to believe Maxim is some spaz who lives in his mom's basement.  Most of us have had better things to do tonight than suffer from "diarrhea of the keyboard" like good old Maxim here.

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #114 on: November 17, 2007, 09:14:47 pm »
The same people that play fast and loose with the word "broken" are the ones that argue the durability aspect.

Nintendo joystick's play fast and loose...

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Re: Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #115 on: November 17, 2007, 09:40:43 pm »
The same people that play fast and loose with the word "broken" are the ones that argue the durability aspect.

Nintendo joystick's play fast and loose...

Given that people can reach the kill screen in Donkey Kong with Nintendo joysticks, a game which is considered to be among the hardest arcade games ever, then I guess they work fine, regardless of your opinion of them.

I set the record in Super Punch-Out with a Nintendo joystick as well.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #116 on: November 17, 2007, 10:55:07 pm »
I can get a couple boards past slipice... and once I was able to pull out all the rivets and make Donkey Kong fall on his head. :applaud:

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #117 on: November 18, 2007, 05:20:32 pm »
I can get a couple boards past slipice... and once I was able to pull out all the rivets and make Donkey Kong fall on his head. :applaud:

I don't know what you mean by "slipice". I'm no good at Donkey Kong myself. I've never even played it on the real arcade machine. I started playing arcade games regularly in '84 and by that time, games like Donkey Kong and Pac-Man were nowhere to be found; not in my area anyway. The only one I ever saw "back in the day" was in the entrance area of a department store (probably Zayre's or K-mart) in '82 or so (I was 7). There was a Q*Bert there too. I remember my mother not appreciating the "swearing" displayed on the Q*Bert marquee (lol).

I've played it on MAME (and ports of it on consoles when I was a kid), but I don't get far in MAME, and the game isn't enjoyable enough IMO to inspire me to practice it either.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 05:25:52 pm by MaximRecoil »

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #118 on: November 19, 2007, 01:08:00 am »
Slipice, you know from Mario Bros.


Cool we're the same age. My Dad was in a bowling league and the bowling alley had great games. The earliest ones I remember are Donkey Kong, Bagman, Frogger, and Galaxian. I liked DK and it was compelling, but really hard. I remember the first time they brought in new games like Ms. Pac-Man, Xevious, Mario Bros., Pole Position, and Dragon's Lair. I remember them brand spanking new with perfect controls, new perfect T-molding, and bright monitors. Those were the days man, those were the days.

I really liked Mario Bros., it was the one I could play the longest with one quarter with my little kid lack of coordination. I also like how the stick was small and responsive.

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #119 on: November 19, 2007, 02:49:21 am »
Slipice, you know from Mario Bros.

Ah, Mario Bros. I never played that in the arcade either. The first time I saw or even heard of it was when my cousin got an NES in '86. We didn't play it much though, as we found Super Mario Bros. to be far more interesting.

Quote
Cool we're the same age. My Dad was in a bowling league and the bowling alley had great games. The earliest ones I remember are Donkey Kong, Bagman, Frogger, and Galaxian. I liked DK and it was compelling, but really hard. I remember the first time they brought in new games like Ms. Pac-Man, Xevious, Mario Bros., Pole Position, and Dragon's Lair. I remember them brand spanking new with perfect controls, new perfect T-molding, and bright monitors. Those were the days man, those were the days.

It sounds like you were going to the arcade at a younger age than I was. My older brother and his friends used to go in the early 80's. I heard them talk about Missile Command, Battle Zone, Defender, Asteroids, etc., but they never took me along. In '82 I got a BMX and I was riding all around town in the summer, but I didn't have money to play arcade games. There was a Pole Position machine that I would always stand in front of, spinning the steering wheel, pressing the gas, shifting the shifter, and marveling at the graphics I could see in the attract mode. 

In '84 my mother started working at one of the places in town that had arcade machines, so I finally got a chance to play. Karate Champ was the first game I got good at, and then Punch-Out in the same year. The Punch-Out machine was an amazing sight to a 9 year old in '84—it was to me anyway. It seemed huge. I was about eye-level with the lower monitor and I had to look skyward to see the upper monitor. I'd never seen anything like it. And the graphics were amazing for the time. I don't think there was anything else at the time with such big and well-animated sprites. Plus, most importantly, the game was fun. And like you mentioned, I remember this game being mint. It was '84, the same year the game was released, so I was playing it when it was essentially brand new. Nowadays you'd never see a brand new arcade machine in a small Mom & Pop's type location, but back then you did.

Quote
I really liked Mario Bros., it was the one I could play the longest with one quarter with my little kid lack of coordination. I also like how the stick was small and responsive.

I didn't pay much attention to joysticks back then, but the Nintendo joystick on the Punch-Out machine was quite a relief after struggling with those miserable, stiff, mushy, short-throw sticks on the Karate Champ machine.

The Nintendo joystick works good if it is clean and lubricated (light lubrication on the bearing—a heavy grease makes them sluggish). Plus, it *has* to have its restrictor plate, and be the right one for the game you are playing. There are a lot of them floating around out there that are missing the restrictor plate because at some point in time someone figured they could make it into an 8-way by simply removing the 4-way restrictor. This makes the stick miserable to use. It becomes a long-throw mushy stick, because instead of positive stops against a solid restrictor plate, you get a springy stop against the microswitch actuators as they bottom out, and eventually you'll bend or break the actuators because you are forcing them back farther than they are supposed to go.   

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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #120 on: November 19, 2007, 10:11:35 am »
My older brother and his friends used to go in the early 80's. I heard them talk about Missile Command, Battle Zone, Defender, Asteroids, etc., but they never took me along.

Yeah I can imagine why:
"Hey you guys going to pway Missiwle Command?"
"Yes Eugene"
"Can I come wiff you?"
"No Eugene"
"But whyyyyyyyy!!?!?!?  MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!"
"Because, you bit of fly spit, every time we play it you just keep telling us how inferior the trackball controller is to a nintendo joystick!  We don't even know what a nintendo is!!!!"
"But I pwomise I won't this time!! Honest injun!!"
"Listen, stay home and play with your barbies.  We AREN'T taking you, story closed!!!"
"MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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Re: <News> - Tron Joystick Handles!
« Reply #121 on: November 19, 2007, 11:27:11 am »

Yeah I can imagine why:
"Hey you guys going to pway Missiwle Command?"
"Yes Eugene"
"Can I come wiff you?"
"No Eugene"
"But whyyyyyyyy!!?!?!?  MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!"
"Because, you bit of fly spit, every time we play it you just keep telling us how inferior the trackball controller is to a nintendo joystick!  We don't even know what a nintendo is!!!!"
"But I pwomise I won't this time!! Honest injun!!"
"Listen, stay home and play with your barbies.  We AREN'T taking you, story closed!!!"
"MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

At 5 years old I was quite content just to be in on the "secret". While my mother didn't outright forbid us kids from playing arcade games, she didn't exactly approve either. She considered them to be a waste of money, and addictive. She lightened her stance on that when she started working at one of the places in town that had a few arcade machines.