Wii Passes Xbox 360 in Worldwide Sales

[Sir Auros]

Yeah, that guy was really talking out of his ass, but I'm not really surprised by that or the people here who don't see the big picture with the Wii. I mean, this place isn't exactly on top of the console world.

[SavannahLion]

Xbox 360 does it and it only costs $299. 

I believe Microsoft manages that price point at a loss, then makes up the difference in game licensing.

[Sir Auros]

Xbox 360 does it and it only costs $299.

I believe Microsoft manages that price point at a loss, then makes up the difference in game licensing.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I recall reading (only a few months after the 360's release) that the price for components was lower than what MS was selling it for and that they weren't selling the 360 at a loss like the original Xbox.

As for the people giving the Wii a free pass for "innovation," are you playing the games that come out on the system? It's a bunch of PS2 quality graphics with half-assed waggle controls. Yeah, it's fun to break out some of the minigames at parties, but none of the non-minigame compilations have been "innovated" by the motion controls. The Wii is remarkable only because it has a bunch of non-gamers buying it for the same reasons the ipod had non-techie people buying mp3 players. It broadens the market (somewhat) and it's popular, but that doesn't mean it's the best out there or even that it lives up to the hype.

It seems to me like people in this thread are equating popularity with quality, and that's just asinine. Not as asinine as saying "good graphics = bad gameplay" and sticking your head in the sand, but it's asinine nonetheless.

I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have a market, but it's not in competition for anywhere near the same demographic as the other two platforms and it's not a big deal for MS or Sony that the Wii is outselling them, because it's priced such that people who want it and a modern system can afford both.

[AtomSmasher]

Xbox 360 does it and it only costs $299.

I believe Microsoft manages that price point at a loss, then makes up the difference in game licensing.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I recall reading (only a few months after the 360's release) that the price for components was lower than what MS was selling it for and that they weren't selling the 360 at a loss like the original Xbox.

As for the people giving the Wii a free pass for "innovation," are you playing the games that come out on the system? It's a bunch of PS2 quality graphics with half-assed waggle controls. Yeah, it's fun to break out some of the minigames at parties, but none of the non-minigame compilations have been "innovated" by the motion controls. The Wii is remarkable only because it has a bunch of non-gamers buying it for the same reasons the ipod had non-techie people buying mp3 players. It broadens the market (somewhat) and it's popular, but that doesn't mean it's the best out there or even that it lives up to the hype.

It seems to me like people in this thread are equating popularity with quality, and that's just asinine. Not as asinine as saying "good graphics = bad gameplay" and sticking your head in the sand, but it's asinine nonetheless.

I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have a market, but it's not in competition for anywhere near the same demographic as the other two platforms and it's not a big deal for MS or Sony that the Wii is outselling them, because it's priced such that people who want it and a modern system can afford both.

I remember reading the exact opposite about Microsoft taking a loss a with each console.   

And yes the Wii controls are innovative.  Wii sports would be an absolutely horrible game if it wasn't for the controller, and even the game Resident Evil 4 controls a lot better because of the controller, although the superior controls in the game make it too easy now.

I agree that theres not a lot of good non-mini game type games that really take advantage of the controller, but the DS was exactly the same way for the first year and look at it now.  Just wait a few months for some of the big name games to come out that were designed from the ground up with this controller in mind, and then decide if it really is just a "half-assed waggle control"

[Sir Auros]

Dude, a lot of those games are supposedly coming out now, and they're not impressive. The Wii is firmly in the casual gamer camp except for some 1st party Nintendo nerd games, which will be what I play on mine, since there is really nothing coming out that interests me. With the demographic Nintendo is shooting for, do you really think third parties are going to expand beyond casual games?

When I said the controls weren't innovative, I mean a large number of the games that "take advantage" of them are really poorly designed. So far, Nintendo is the only company with a decent grip on using the controls effectively. I can buy that will change with time, but third parties have been ridiculously sloppy so far. I remember when the Nintendo Seal of Quality meant something. Also, so many of the controls just feel like I'm doing the same thing I'd do by pressing a button, but I'm swinging my arm around instead. That's innovation?

I'm not arguing that it's not going to be a successful system, but I am annoyed at the morons poo-pooing the current generation of systems because they think the Wii is the messiah.

[AtomSmasher]

I agree with being annoyed at Nintendo fanboys, but your comments about the controls are pretty much exactly what people said when the DS came out.  Thats the problem with unique/new controls, it takes time for the developers to learn how to properly use them.  So I guess if you're only looking at currently released games, then you are correct, the controls are not innovative.  However, I bet that a year or so from now, after developers have really learned how to utilize the unique controls, you will agree that it is an innovative system.  I guess it's whether judge the system from the reality of today's games or the potential of tommorrow's (hmm, I think I'm getting too existential for my tastes).

And just so we're clear, I am anything but a Nintendo fanboy.  Earlier in this thread I defended Bioshock as a great game, and prior to the Wii, my last non-handheld Nintendo console was the original NES.

[Sir Auros]

Oh, I don't think you are. Now, the moron who actually compared Bioshock to Hexen...

I see what you're saying about the DS, but really how innovative were its controls? Many of the best games on the system take minimal advantage of the touchscreen, or if they do, it's often just a substitute for additional buttons. You have the people that graphics aren't innovative, I guess I fall in the camp that says alternate control schemes aren't, either.

[SavannahLion]

Xbox 360 does it and it only costs $299.

I believe Microsoft manages that price point at a loss, then makes up the difference in game licensing.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I recall reading (only a few months after the 360's release) that the price for components was lower than what MS was selling it for and that they weren't selling the 360 at a loss like the original Xbox.

Gamasutra is only one of many websites that back up my original statement. I searched for a website to corroborate your statement and haven't found one.

Microsoft has an iron tough licensing agreement. Ever notice the high prices of wireless 360 controllers? Accessories is one area they're getting their money back. Games are another. You really can't call yourself an avid gamer and use the excuse that PS3 and 360 games are consistently $10 higher than the Wii's because of production and development costs. If you can swallow that line, I've got a bridge in Minnesota up for sale, cheap.

[shmokes]

I will say, in the Wii's defense, that Nintendo has been such a ---smurfy--- performer in the market for the past ten years, that I think 3rd parties really didn't take them seriously before the consoles release.  The expectation among 3rd parties was that PS3 was going to explode on the market like an iPod (like PS1 and PS2 did) and that Xbox 360 would continue making gains, further eclipsing Nintendo, and Nintendo would continue it's path toward Sega-land.

So third parties had plans to do a few hack-job ports with half-assed "waggle" controls tacked on, but they weren't going to devote significant resources to doing a bunch of games from the ground-up that wouldn't even be suitable to port to the serious systems because of the vast difference in graphic/processing power and control scheme.  This was especially the case because nobody expected that Nintendo still had the ability to make a system that could sell.

So, the Wii really caught developers with their pants down.  EA's president has admitted as much publicly.  They didn't start seriously making games for the Wii until after it was released, and we all know that a typical development cycle is at least a year, probably closer to 18 months and sometimes far longer.

So, yeah, don't get me wrong.  The Wii will have great games for it.  But regardless of what developers do, the hardware itself has problems that will always hold it back from what it could have, and what it should have been, IMO.

[boykster]

Gamasutra is only one of many websites that back up my original statement. I searched for a website to corroborate your statement and haven't found one.

Microsoft has an iron tough licensing agreement. Ever notice the high prices of wireless 360 controllers? Accessories is one area they're getting their money back. Games are another. You really can't call yourself an avid gamer and use the excuse that PS3 and 360 games are consistently $10 higher than the Wii's because of production and development costs. If you can swallow that line, I've got a bridge in Minnesota up for sale, cheap.

I believe MS just passed the point where Xbox360's were no longer loss leaders; and it is very true that xbox games and accessories have a hefty licensing fee attached to them, pushing their prices up.

I'm in the same camp that doesn't consider the Wii and the Xbox360/PS3 to be in direct competition.  If you're looking for incredible graphics and sound - buy a PS3 or Xbox360.  If you're looking for innovative gameplay and controls - and I think the Wii's control interface, buggy or otherwise is innovative and will impact all generations of consoles to come - then buy a Wii.  If you want both, buy both!  That doesn't mean that the Wii won't have "serious" games, or that the Xbox360 won't have fun innovative games.  I don't expect, however, to see a game like Gears of War on the Wii.

As for Howards comments re: GoW and Bioshock, he's clearly never played either game.  Gears is hardly a WWII lookalike wannabe, and is third person rather than fps.  Like it, or don't like it, but base your criticisms on reality, not fantasy.  Also, Bioshock is hardly a twitch FPS "hexxen" clone.  It is actually the "spiritual" sequel to the System Shock series of PC games.  Comparing Bioshock to hexxen or doom is very loosely correct, but only in the fact that the game uses a first person perspective.  Again, I don't care if it's your type of game or not, but the game is getting GREAT reviews and has been widely accepted by PC and console gamers alike.  Remember, Bioshock is not just an xbox360 game, but is also a PC game...

[Sir Auros]

Xbox 360 does it and it only costs $299.

I believe Microsoft manages that price point at a loss, then makes up the difference in game licensing.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I recall reading (only a few months after the 360's release) that the price for components was lower than what MS was selling it for and that they weren't selling the 360 at a loss like the original Xbox.

Gamasutra is only one of many websites that back up my original statement. I searched for a website to corroborate your statement and haven't found one.

Microsoft has an iron tough licensing agreement. Ever notice the high prices of wireless 360 controllers? Accessories is one area they're getting their money back. Games are another. You really can't call yourself an avid gamer and use the excuse that PS3 and 360 games are consistently $10 higher than the Wii's because of production and development costs. If you can swallow that line, I've got a bridge in Minnesota up for sale, cheap.

1 - That article is from the 360 launch, back when it was selling at a loss. I had read something several months later that said it wasn't selling at a loss (at least not for the physical production). I'm sure I read it somewhere, but I'm honestly not sussed enough to go dig it up.

2 - I never brought up the $10 more argument, and I don't think it's because of increasing production costs. I don't think it's because of massively increased licensing costs, either. It's publishers grabbing at cash because they know they can.

[tommy]

Another thing to mention on sales is that all the XBOX's are turning up broken every other day and the PS3 is just too expensive and has no games to play. Wii wins.

[Sir Auros]

Oh, you mean those Xbox 360s with the free, three-year warranties? The ones that break and then are repaired for free? Those?

[boykster]

Oh, you mean those Xbox 360s with the free, three-year warranties? The ones that break and then are repaired for free? Those?

while it is great the microsoft grudgingly extended the warranty on the 360, you HAVE to admit the inconvenience of having you console die is pretty annoying.   

[Sir Auros]

It's annoying, but not nearly as annoying as having a first iteration PS2 get unreadable disc errors and be left in the cold.

[AtomSmasher]

1 - That article is from the 360 launch, back when it was selling at a loss. I had read something several months later that said it wasn't selling at a loss (at least not for the physical production). I'm sure I read it somewhere, but I'm honestly not sussed enough to go dig it up.

They didn't stop selling at a loss until a year after their launch, which is a bit longer then "a few months"  

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061116-8239.html

[tommy]

Oh, you mean those Xbox 360s with the free, three-year warranties? The ones that break and then are repaired for free? Those?

I don't give a a damn if they gave me two free games after they returned it, or whatever the case may be. Put out a product that will not break when people play it. Having a great return policy or giving us extra stuff for having the console crap out is not good enough. Make the damn thing right to start with.

[Sir Auros]

1 - That article is from the 360 launch, back when it was selling at a loss. I had read something several months later that said it wasn't selling at a loss (at least not for the physical production). I'm sure I read it somewhere, but I'm honestly not sussed enough to go dig it up.

They didn't stop selling at a loss until a year after their launch, which is a bit longer then "a few months" 

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061116-8239.html

Still makes me right and Lion wrong. 

Tommy, I thought you only live in Delusionalville when it came to the NFL. Even the holy Wii is having design issues. Reports are coming in now that if you leave WiiConnect24 on, it'll mess up the GPU because of where the wifi adaptor is in relation to it.

[tommy]

Talk about fanboys, this guy is a fan of getting broken new XBOX's and is defending it even.

[Sir Auros]

Whatever, you've made it quite clear to me just how intelligent you are, so anything you say is inconsequential. It is amusing to see you making a fool of yourself somewhere other than the Vick thread, good work on that.

[tommy]

Oh i see, i'm a fool for expecting a console to be made correctly and not have major problems. 

I think you have the fool title on the wrong person here.

[Sir Auros]

If I were judging just your reasoning ability, I'd be shocked that you can string together a sentence. 

EDIT - Not that I feel the need to defend myself from a wit as sharp as Tommy's (it's like a Nerf football, really), but before anyone else calls me a fanboy...I've had a Wii since launch. I waited in line for many hours, and I got my Nintendo-game-playing-device. Nintendo's E3 "announcements" and the lackluster releases and future releases for the system have me jaded overall, but I'm not an Xbox 360 fanboy because I enjoy that system more, don't see the Wii as the greatest platform since arcades, and can forgive hardware failures when I buy one of the first systems made (which are almost always risky) a generously extended warranty is involved.

[tommy]

I see you're one of those fools who likes to take posts from other threads and drag them to new threads where they have no place just to make yourself look like an even bigger idiot, i guess.

You have no defense for the XBOX's horrible flaws so just give up on the insults and stop acting like a tard already. 

[Sir Auros]

tard

Mr. Pott calling Mr. Kettle... 

[AtomSmasher]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[shmokes]

Really, unless you're a non-gamer - one of the grandmas who supposedly are buying Wiis left and right - I don't see how a person could honestly prefer the Wii to the 360 right now, all things considered.  PS3 I can grant because of the lack of software.  But the quantity of excellent games on 360 positively dwarfs what's available on the Wii right now.  Even if you think the Wii's controller is the best thing since sliced bread (or unsliced bread if you prefer doing it yourself), if there's nothing to play with it, it's just something sitting unused on the shelf.  I think at best you can say that you love the Wii controller and you think when all is said and done Wii will have the largest, most compelling library of excellent games.  Right now the best you can really say is, "There are, perhaps, five games worth owning on the Wii."  Now, to be perfectly fair, I would have said exactly the same about the 360 nine months after it launched.  But, to be perfectly realistic, we are now 21 months into the 360 launch and the state of their library has changed somewhat.

[tommy]

I'm not arguing the great games on the 360, i'm just saying i would not buy a console no matter how great those games are with such a high percentage of the thing becoming a brick. I also bet these great games would have called another console home if they, and we had known that the 360 was a brick waiting to happen.

[SavannahLion]

Since saint stepped in before I could post, I've had to strip out anything remotely resembling a counter-point here.

Auros, I've seen enough of your opinion posts to understand that it makes it pretty tough for anyone to really take you seriously.

Whatever, if you really think you're Wii is lacking step up to the plate. Send it to Child's Play and let someone who doesn't give a rats ass about graphics, sound or storage capacity enjoy the console.

tommy, the brick argument isn't a powerful one. Every one of the current consoles have/had problems.

[tommy]

Saint didn't step in, it was just a copied post. 

[AtomSmasher]

Saint didn't step in, it was just a copied post. 

 

The thread was degrading to name calling, so I figured it wouldn't hurt posting that.

[tommy]

Saint didn't step in, it was just a copied post. 

 

The thread was degrading to name calling, so I figured it wouldn't hurt posting that.

You're a doody head for tricking us into thinking saint posted here. 

[Sir Auros]

Auros, I've seen enough of your opinion posts to understand that it makes it pretty tough for anyone to really take you seriously.

  You may not, but I think others share my sentiments. If we're trading opinions here, I don't know that I can take you seriously after trying to slip in a ludicrously outdated article to prove your point. I wasn't zealous enough to hunt down the article I read, but I do know I read it. What's your problem, exactly? I pointed out that you were wrong, and then Tommy calls me a fanboy, I defend myself, and you start getting hostile?

Whatever, if you really think you're Wii is lacking step up to the plate. Send it to Child's Play and let someone who doesn't give a rats ass about graphics, sound or storage capacity enjoy the console.

Oh, I'll keep it around for the few Nintendo games that come out, but I'm outspoken about its mediocrity and I'm not the type to ignore Nintendo fanboys bash other systems and talk such utter BS like what Casto was saying.

Also, I'm pretty sure Child's Play only accepts new merchandise.

[tommy]

I was going to come here and post that if you cannot donate the system that you could always shove it up your.... but that would not be right either. So i won't post that message here.  Ah crap, did i post that? 

[SavannahLion]

I was going to come here and post that if you cannot donate the system that you could always shove it up your.... but that would not be right either. So i won't post that message here.  Ah crap, did i post that? 

It's small and warm, so I'm quite sure it's possible, especially if you're goat.. ah... yeah. It's probably possible.

Auros, at least I tried to back up my points then I left an opening for someone to show me an article showing otherwise.  AtomSmasher stepped up to the plate, proved me partially wrong and it was left at that. What's your excuse?

[SavannahLion]

Saint didn't step in, it was just a copied post. 

The thread was degrading to name calling, so I figured it wouldn't hurt posting that.

[Sir Auros]

Auros, at least I tried to back up my points then I left an opening for someone to show me an article showing otherwise.  AtomSmasher stepped up to the plate, proved me partially wrong and it was left at that. What's your excuse?

That I didn't need to explain myself to you?

[SavannahLion]

Auros, at least I tried to back up my points then I left an opening for someone to show me an article showing otherwise.  AtomSmasher stepped up to the plate, proved me partially wrong and it was left at that. What's your excuse?

That I didn't need to explain myself to you?

Seems you're a little confused on my point there.

[Sir Auros]

Oh, my excuse for hostility? I don't like you getting uppity because I pointed out that you were wrong, and I'm not fond of Tommy jumping into the conversation with his name-calling and half-baked thoughts.

[tommy]

Why don't you take a look back and see who began name calling. Get your facts correct before you make a point of not liking name calling and then start to name call.

[Sir Auros]

Why don't you take a look back and see who began name calling. Get your facts correct before you make a point of not liking name calling and then start to name call.

Yeah, I looked back, and you did. You seemed to think I was an Xbox fanboy because I pointed out that MS has a free 3 year warranty on the things and the Wii isn't as bulletproof as you seem to think it is.