Wii Passes Xbox 360 in Worldwide Sales

[tommy]

I don't want to get into a childish thing here but you need to be corrected. Look back again, fanboy is not a bad name, but Delusional and fool is.

[Sir Auros]

I don't want to get into a childish thing here but you need to be corrected. Look back again, fanboy is not a bad name, but Delusional and fool is.

Whatever, dude. Fanboy is not a term I'll take sitting down, and I did throw it around first in this thread but it was in a general sense at the tone and I wasn't directing it at anyone. You used it because you somehow reasoned that I'm a fanboy (even though I have both systems) because I defend the 360 as a good system and for a great warranty.

As for delusional, you are. You think Wii's don't have malfunctions and that Mike Vick is innocent. Tell me you think the WMDs are in Iraq and we'll complete the trifecta.

[tommy]

 You think Wii's don't have malfunctions and that Mike Vick is innocent.

I never said that, and i never said that. You said that just now for some odd reason.

[Sir Auros]

  If you want to continue this, shoot off a pm instead of your mouth, and let's let this thread get back on track and off the topic of "us." I'm not going to let people like Lion accuse me of name-calling or derailing a thread again because of you.

EDIT - Seriously, no matter what the hell you have to say next, I'm not responding to it unless it has to do with the topic of the thread.

[tommy]

I don't want to be talking to you now let alone in private, who knows what you will do to me in a private area. 

[Sir Auros]

I don't want to be talking to you now let alone in private, who knows what you will do to me in a private area. 

For $20, I'll do whatever you want to your private area.

Damn, I can't resist lewd jokes.

[SavannahLion]

Oh, my excuse for hostility? I don't like you getting uppity because I pointed out that you were wrong, and I'm not fond of Tommy jumping into the conversation with his name-calling and half-baked thoughts.

Turn off your emotions there. You have a tendency to make statements, then when people call you on it, you just argue away instead of backing it up with proof. I practically threw a counter-proof into your lap and you just went on with your little, "I'm right, you're wrong," mission.

Look, this is my opinion. Counter it all you want, it won't change mine.

Nintendo is positioning itself into a niche market largely ignored by Microsoft and Sony. The competition between Sony/Microsoft and Nintendo is moot. Whatever overlap exists between S/M and N is pre-existing, ie people who are going to buy multiple consoles regardless market dominance.

Yeah, Nintendo flubbed it big time right around the time of their contract breakup with Sony. They barely scraped through with the N64. Nintendo knows their strength and they're playing off of that. What was the biggest money maker for the last eighteen years. How the ---fudgesicle--- does a spinach green ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- LCD evolve into one of the biggest cash cows the home gaming scene has ever seen? Nintendo has the one console that handed every single competitors ass (arguably including the PSP, but that's not my point here) back to them.

Nintendo learned alot with their Gameboy line and it looks like they're going to apply the bulk of their knowledge right to the GCN/Wii line.

The defencies you mentioned with the Wii exists. There's no getting around that. But Nintendo is applying a very succesful formula into a niche market largely ignored by Microsoft and Sony. Passing 360 in sales is significant for Nintendo. It may not ultimately crown them king, but they'll survive for the next go around.

As for tommy... that's between you and him.

[ChadTower]

[Sir Auros]

Oh, my excuse for hostility? I don't like you getting uppity because I pointed out that you were wrong, and I'm not fond of Tommy jumping into the conversation with his name-calling and half-baked thoughts.

Turn off your emotions there. You have a tendency to make statements, then when people call you on it, you just argue away instead of backing it up with proof. I practically threw a counter-proof into your lap and you just went on with your little, "I'm right, you're wrong," mission.

Look, this is my opinion. Counter it all you want, it won't change mine.

It wasn't a mission, if it were I would've gone out hunting for it. I just didn't feel like hunting down the article. I knew I read it, and that's enough for me. It wasn't personal, and I wasn't trying to sound nasty by it, but I didn't feel like searching through my posts at another messageboard from 2006 to find the link to the article I'd read (which, for the record, wasn't AtomSmasher's, or it at least wasn't at that site when I read it) to prove it.

I'm not arguing with your opinions on the machines, I was pointing out that fact wasn't correct and then went on with an unrelated argument about why it's irrelevant that the Wii has surpassed the 360 because they're for different markets. It's like starting a thead saying, "OMFG, teh DVD players haz outsold teh Gameboys! Nintendo am phail!" Since we have similar thoughts on the systems, it sounds to me like you read my, "I'm pretty sure you're wrong," as a cornerstone to my argument or something.

As for tommy... that's between you and him.

Not if he doesn't have $20, it's not.

[mcfreak]

What he said! F-me, go to the chat and duke it out!!!

[shmokes]

Jesus . . . what happened here?


Anyway, you just gotta stop referring to Nintendo as operating in a Niche market and not competing with MS and Sony.  A #1, it's hard to say they're operating in a niche market when they have sold more consoles than either of their competitors[/i].  Do you even know the definition of niche?  Nintendo is the current market leader.  And, make no mistake, home and portable videogame consoles is the market Nintendo operates in.  I'm talking about the mainstream, console market.  Yes, the very one in which Sony and Microsoft find themselves competing for consumers' videogame dollars. 

B #2, differentiation doesn't suddenly put them in a new market.  Progresso and Campbells are direct competitors, even if Progresso differentiates itself by offering a higher quality, if more expensive, canned soup.  The console market may be segmented to a small degree, with different consoles tending to appeal to different demographics, but it's still the same market and, frankly, it's not very strongly segmented.

Lastly, WTF is the title of this thread?  Be honest with yourself for a second . . . if it were really true that Nintendo was not competing with Sony and MS, why would anybody give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- if Wii passed 360 in worldwide sales?  Nobody talks about Wii passing TIVOs in worldwide sales.  Nobody talks about Wii passing GPS navigating devices in worldwide sales.  Ask yourself the following question.  What quality does Microsoft have in relation to Nintendo that makes the Wii's success compared with the 360's relevant?*










*Hint: They're competitors, ROTFLMAO

[Sir Auros]

I still disagree. Mainstream gamers are going for a current-gen console (360/PS3) + a Wii, so  Nintendo is not taking existing customers from MS or Sony. The systems are outselling because Nintendo is tapping into the consumers that don't normally buy games. Yes, Nintendo's the market leader, but that doesn't mean the other two systems are in trouble or that Nintendo is better. Popularity != good product and the high sales are attributable to a sudden broadening of the market, not Nintendo stealing customers from other systems.

[SavannahLion]

I still disagree. Mainstream gamers are going for a current-gen console (360/PS3) + a Wii, so  Nintendo is not taking existing customers from MS or Sony. The systems are outselling because Nintendo is tapping into the consumers that don't normally buy games. Yes, Nintendo's the market leader, but that doesn't mean the other two systems are in trouble or that Nintendo is better. Popularity != good product and the high sales are attributable to a sudden broadening of the market, not Nintendo stealing customers from other systems.

Auros smacked it right on the nose (well, the, "Popularity != good product," might be debated. But I digress). PS3 and 360 appeal to a very different demographics than the Wii.

As for, "niche," why yes, I do. It's a position or situation suited to whatever occupies it. A quick define on Google turns up the following. I've put the definitions of interest in bold.

# a position particularly well suited to the person who occupies it; "he found his niche in the academic world"
# recess: a small concavity
# recess: an enclosure that is set back or indented
# (ecology) the status of an organism within its environment and community (affecting its survival as a species)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

it's true a Wii technically isn't a living thing, However I believe the English language has enough play that I can still safely use, "niche," in the context I've chosen. So again, Nintendo is filling a niche largely ignored by both Microsoft and Sony and that is why the Wii is out pacing the 360. It's a big damned market to fill.

[AtomSmasher]

I still disagree. Mainstream gamers are going for a current-gen console (360/PS3) + a Wii, so  Nintendo is not taking existing customers from MS or Sony. The systems are outselling because Nintendo is tapping into the consumers that don't normally buy games. Yes, Nintendo's the market leader, but that doesn't mean the other two systems are in trouble or that Nintendo is better. Popularity != good product and the high sales are attributable to a sudden broadening of the market, not Nintendo stealing customers from other systems.

Well I can disagree with that simply because I am a mainstream gamer and if the Wii wasn't an option, then I would of bought a 360 by now.  Eventually I probably will buy one of the other systems, but with several big name 360 games getting released on the PC, a lack of quality titles on the PS3, and the fun games available on the cheaper (and in my opinion, more innovative) system, I see no reason to at the moment.  Of course I never have owned more then one current gen system at a time, and its possible I never will.

[shmokes]

No.  You're wrong.  The only definition of niche that matters is the business definition, i.e., "a distinct segment of a market".  Expanding the market is the opposite of a niche.  If the Wii was only marketed to and purchased by old people, it would be a niche product.  If it were only marketed to and purchased by young people it would be a niche product.  If, as you pointed out, it is being purchased by non-gamers in addition to traditional gamers, it's just ---smurfing--- popular.  If EVERY segment of a market is buying the product, then it is the exact polar opposite of a niche product.  You saw the lines outside Gamestops and Bestbuys and Targets all Winter.  Those weren't geriatrics and business women freezing their asses off all night to get their hands on the prize.  Those were hardcore gamers.

Your ideas about competition are simplistic and incomplete at best.  In the last generation of game consoles I owned a Gamecube and an Xbox (and a Dreamcast).  In the generation before that I owned a Nintendo 64 and a Playstation. 

Do you come to the conclusion, then, that as far as Nintendo and Microsoft were concerned they were no longer competing for me, as a customer?  Do you think that they would just call it a tie and forget about fighting over me because "Nintendo isn't taking existing customers from MS?"  No, of course not, because they aren't competing for customers except to the extent that customers provide dollars.  They're competing for my dollars, of which there is a finite supply that I continue furnishing long after I buy a game system. 

If I am a PS3 owner who also owns a Wii, and I have money to buy only one game I'm faced with a dilemma.  That money is going to go toward a console videogame, but it can only go to either Nintendo or Sony.  Even if I have money to buy 100 games, Nintendo and Sony can't both get 100 sales out of me.  They have to COMPETE directly for my videogame dollars.

[SavannahLion]

Core gamers are a unique demographic insofar that they'll wait in line and buy just about everything. And how much do you want to bank that a good portion of those people you saw waiting in line weren't keeping their consoles?

In core gamers households, multiple consoles fall short as being expected. And you know what, I still stand by my, "niche," comment. You know why? Because it's an entire segment of the market that remained largely untapped for years. It's everything outside of the 18-35 male crowd. As far as home consoles are concerned, it's niche and Wii is apparently doing a damn good job of filling it at this point.

Your ideas about competition are simplistic and incomplete at best.  In the last generation of game consoles I owned a Gamecube and an Xbox (and a Dreamcast).  In the generation before that I owned a Nintendo 64 and a Playstation.

Who cares what you owned in the past? Wanna see my console library? I've got at least two different systems of every generation starting with the 2600. Unlike many people, I kept them all. I don't throw that fact out on the table, but if you want it, it's there.

If I am a PS3 owner who also owns a Wii, and I have money to buy only one game I'm faced with a dilemma.

I'm having a little trouble finding a PS3 owner that only has the money to buy one game.

I'm sure the Wii does impact PS3 sales, but I don't see it being as competitive as you make it out to be. The impact the Wii would have on PS3 game sales is small. Far smaller than a similar impact the 360 would have. It goes right back to the target consumer. You and I both know PS3's are expensive. What are the chances of a poor PS3 owner who doesn't have the disposable income to buy the games they want, when they want? Last Sunday, my friends boyfriend went out and bought a PS3 with five or six games and a full complement of extra controllers. Here's the kicker, on a whim, he saw and purchased a Wii, four or five games and a full complement of controller sets. IMHO, he blew a shitload of money for nothing, but whatever. Point is, he has disposable income coming out the whazoo. It's not likely he would've purchased 15 PS3 games if he didn't see the Wii there.

I see the current competition somewhat similar to the Neo Geo vs Genesis/SNES era. I don't think there was anybody who really considered the Neo Geo as a competitor to Genesis or SNES. The demographics were just too far apart. There was definately some overlap between the two. I never met an Neo Geo owner who didn't own another console. Would anybody consider the Neo Geo as taking sales away from the other consoles? Sure, I'm sure there were a few "lost" sales like what you're talking about between the current generation. But people who owned a Neo Geo have too much disposable income to really go, "gee! I don't have enough money this month, which game should I get? A $200 Neo Geo cart or a $50 SNES cart?

Core gamers are picking up the Wii because it covers a different range of games. Nintendo is banking the real money on the non-core gamers. Those who aren't very likely to own two current gen consoles.

Shmokes, to put it simply, I agree with you about the end assessment of the Wii market and how ---smurfing--- HUGE it's going to be. I just don't agree with your arrival at that assessment.

[SavannahLion]

OK, can we pause here for a second. Attack my other post if you like but I want to put aside the commentary for just at least one post.

In all seriousness, does anyone have any belief that any one of the three consoles we're talking about is actually going to "fail" before the next generation? Not why, or how, or anything like that. Just that you believe console X,Y or Z is going to bomb.

[shmokes]

Who cares what you owned in the past? Wanna see my console library? I've got at least two different systems of every generation starting with the 2600. Unlike many people, I kept them all.

  Where did that come from?  LOL, I didn't point out that I owned a Gamecube and an Xbox to brag.  I was pointing out that Nintendo and Microsoft didn't stop competing for my dollars simply because I owned both systems.  This is relevant because you have suggested that the large number of people who own both a Wii and a 360 suggests that the Wii and 360 are not direct competitors.

Beyond that everything you just said is completely covered in my last post, which was perfectly clear and concise.  If you were having this discussion in a business marketing class your professor would be beside himself.  This isn't a matter of opinion.  The Wii is objectively a direct competitor to PS3 and 360 and is objectively not a niche product.  You are simply wrong.  Reread my last post.  Everything you need is there.


FWIW, no, I do not believe that any of the consoles will bomb this generation.  Both Nintendo and MS are in such strong positions that the market would have to do something REALLY strange for things to turn around so badly that their systems failed.  And Sony's got enough of a brand and a powerful enough system that people want it and will pick it up more and more as the price drops.  Tons of games are in development, since all the third parties were banking on Sony continuing to clean house.  And the market is bigger than ever (Thanks Nintendo!) so can probably support three players better than it has been able to in the past.  That's my take.

[Malenko]

I can prove that the Wii , 360 , and PS3 are competitors much easier then stated above:
They are all for sale right next to each other in Game Stop,WalMart, EB,etc


I accept the fact the Wii is out selling everything hardware wise, its surprising, but none the less a fact. However I personally dont think that the "niche" part of the market is going to give the Wii the kinds of software numbers in the long term that Nintendo wants. There isn't a single Wii game coming out that my nephews want bad enough to ask me to buy it for them for XMas/Birthday(I bought them a Wii last Xmas, along with Tony Hawk, Happy Feet, Sponge Bob,Ice age, and a few others  ; their ages 4-9)

If I bought the Wii for me, well I'd prolly snag up Metroid Prime 3 and Zelda, which is why I didnt buy the Wii for me, not enough games for me. Its been stated before that libraries change and if the Wii gets more games like the ones I want, I'll drop the cheddar on one. Right now, though, I'll stick with and enjoy my XBOX360 elite; they just released Super Puzzle Fighter II HD Remix on XBOX live and I'm happier then a pig in ship =) I can openly say that I'm more likely to buy a Wii then a PS3. Either way Im very sure that the 360 is the last console I'll ever own.

Also, Tommy... do you really think Microsoft hasn't fixed the production problem in the consoles they are making today? They cant recall all the 360s, all they can do is offer the warranty for free, and give you a free month of Live! Gold for making you wait. How can you be a Giants fan, they are far more broken then any XBOX360 will ever be..... Giants stadium should have 3 Red lights around it, and who roots for an 8-8 team who is 39-41 over the last 5 years.*









*see how lame an insult sounds online, even on backs with facts?

[shmokes]

Im very sure that the 360 is the last console I'll ever own.

That's a strange thing to say.  Surely twenty years from now the 360 is going to seem wholly inadequate and primitive compared to whatever the rest of us are playing then.  You not planning to be around for much longer?

BTW, my favorite argument so far is that they are not competitors because every person who buys a PS3 has unlimited cash reserves so he can just buy unlimited numbers of games.  The best part is that, even if this was true (of course, it's patently absurd, but I'll humor Savannah for a second), not even Bill Gates has unlimited amounts of time, and what's more, he presumably has tastes and is only going to buy the games that interest him and that he has time to play at least a little.  So, no matter how rich he is, he's probably not just going to go to the store and buy the entire libraries of PS3 and Wii as each game is released.  He's much more likely to buy games as he desires them.  The logic behind Savannah's argument is simply laughable -- as though movie studios aren't  competing for rich peoples' dollars because rich people can afford to see every movie, or that Jaguar has no competitors because a person who can buy a Jag can still afford to buy as many cars as he wants, so the jaguar hasn't precluded him from buying a car from another company.  Laughing.  My.  Ass.  Off.

[Malenko]

Im very sure that the 360 is the last console I'll ever own.

That's a strange thing to say.  Surely twenty years from now the 360 is going to seem wholly inadequate and primitive compared to whatever the rest of us are playing then.  You not planning to be around for much longer?

Its not that strange to me, Right now I'm 28 years old and I'm falling out of love with gaming pretty fast.  Twenty years from now I'll be 48 and hopefully buying a system for my kid. I have enough games and systems anyway, perhaps one day I'll own a house with a big gaming room, but for now, I'm just trying to get the house, wife optional.

[tommy]

but for now, I'm just trying to get the house, wife optional.

Do they have deals these days that when you buy a house you can pick from like 3 or 4 woman that could possibly live there with you. 

[ChadTower]

Only if the house is very, very, very expensive.

[SavannahLion]

You know what Shmokes? Whatever, you win. You've snubbed me. I admit defeat in the face of overwhelming opposition. 

I'm simply not in the mood to alienate and create enemies. Meanwhile, I've got bigger, more important, fish to fry.

[shmokes]

Yeah, sorry.  I got pretty wound up about that.  I'm still right    but jesus, shmokes, lighten up.

[Sir Auros]

You know what Shmokes? Whatever, you win. You've snubbed me. I admit defeat in the face of overwhelming opposition. 

I'm simply not in the mood to alienate and create enemies. Meanwhile, I've got bigger, more important, fish to fry.

You haven't alienated me. It sounds like I'm firmly on your side here, but I'm tired of dealing with this thread too. I'm going to play the "I know more about what's going on because I follow the industry more than most of the people in this thread" card and walk away.

[shmokes]

Its not that strange to me, Right now I'm 28 years old and I'm falling out of love with gaming pretty fast.  Twenty years from now I'll be 48 and hopefully buying a system for my kid. I have enough games and systems anyway, perhaps one day I'll own a house with a big gaming room, but for now, I'm just trying to get the house, wife optional.

Bah!  Nonsense.  I can just see you, twenty years from now, when holodeck-level experience is available and you'll say, "Just when I thought I was out . . . they pull me back in."   

Seriously, man.  Look how far videogames have come in the last 20 years.  And they're really still in their infancy.  Our physical interface with them is totally primitive.  Buttons and joysticks?  Gamepads?  Keyboard and mice?  These make for incredibly poor approximations of how we interact with our world.  The future of the videogame industry is so exciting because it has so far to go, there are so many fantastic places that it can go.  Cinema is ready to be supplanted, man.  Look at Lord of the Rings or the new King Kong.  Look at the Matrix.  If we want something to happen on-screen, no matter what it is, we make it happen, and it looks as real as if we really filmed the thing actually happening IRL.  Cinema has come a helluva long way over the past century, but it has pretty much fully matured technologically.  There's really no more really significant improvements you could make to film without actually turning it into something totally different.

But videogames, with the potential they have we are in the equivalent of the silent-film stage.  Nah . . . you ain't getting out.  You haven't even begun.  Just you wait and see what they have in store for us down the road.

[SavannahLion]

Bah!  Nonsense.  I can just see you, twenty years from now, when holodeck-level experience is available and you'll say, "Just when I thought I was out . . . they pull me back in."   

Scene: Arcade circa 1980.

Grandpa: So how d'ya like the game?
Grandson: shrugs shoulders 'Tis alright.
Grandpa: Alright?? It's a classic! It's Centipede!
Grandson: Stay cool. It's OK, gramps. It's just not something I want to play.
Grandpa: OK... what's wrong with it?
Grandson: Gramps, you've got to use... a joystick! C'mon that's just... old!
Grandpa: OK, let's try this one. Computer! Playback file 11903266-1A.

The Centipede cabinet digitally disolves and is replaced by a big screen TV accompanied by a Wii. The Arcade digitally dissolves and is replaced by a typical family room, circa 2007. Grandpa picks up Wiimote and powers up the Wii.

Grandpa: OK, try this, it doesn't have a joystick and it's fun!
Grandson: 

[Malenko]

Seriously, man.  Look how far videogames have come in the last 20 years.  And they're really still in their infancy.  Our physical interface with them is totally primitive.  Buttons and joysticks?  Gamepads?  Keyboard and mice?  These make for incredibly poor approximations of how we interact with our world.

I can see your point, but heres my best attempt at a counter. instead of virtually playing NBA Live on some sort of holodeck experience, I'd rather go outside and shoot some hoops  (get it? a halo, a hoop?)

I feel like games are becoming too complex and too taxing on time, either the time to get good at the game , or the time to finish it. I believe thats why "retro" gaming is coming back into style. There isnt a steep learning curve or a large amount of time needed to enjoy Galaga, Pac Man, Track n Field... well in TnF the hammer throw still gives me trouble over a decade later :p

Dont even get me started on the prices nowadays.....when I was a kid......

[shmokes]

Because your example only applies to sports games 

Let's see you go outside and relive Burnout or Zelda or, god help you, GTA.  Generally speaking, videogames keep you out of prison.   

[boykster]

Generally speaking, videogames keep you out of prison.   

Or if you believe some, they are an apprenticeship / training ground for the real thing 

[Samstag]

Generally speaking, videogames keep you out of prison.   

Or if you believe some, they are an apprenticeship / training ground for the real thing 

Prison rape simulator?  Is that a Japanese import?

[ChadTower]

Prison Rape Simulator HAS to be a Wii exclusive.  It's perfect for your Wii.

[shmokes]

You know what occurs to me.  I let your real life versus holodeck thing slide on sports games, but jesus, can you imagine Madden or NBA Live on a holodeck?  That would be incredible.  Sure, you can go outside and shoot some hoops, but how often do you get to, on a whim, play on a full court, with full teams, in front of 30,000 spectators?  How often do you get to play football for your favorite team in NFL stadiums?  Going out and getting some three on three with some buddies is fun, but the holodeck certainly has its appeals.  In fact, you and your five buddies could suddenly play on the same team, against five other guys in NBA street if you wanted.  Or you could still do three on three and have the rest of the team filled in by the computer.  It could be pretty fun to have Yankee stadium in your family room. 

[ahofle]

What occurs to me if holodeck technology existed is that I would be doing a lot of 1 on 3 scenarios, but probably never get around to playing sports games. 

[shmokes]

Heh . . . there is that. 

[shardian]

What occurs to me if holodeck technology existed is that I would be doing a lot of 1 on 3 scenarios, but probably never get around to playing sports games. 

I'd even do 3 on 3 as long as I was the only guy.