all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?

[gavkiwi]

sooo, I got a PS3 this week, mainly as a Blu Ray HD player to go with my HD setup, I thought for $12 more than the stand alone BR dvd player, and with a free remote and 5 free Blu Ray movies, I thought what the heck.

So now my PS3 and XBOX 360 live in the same ent center. But, I cannot bring my self to buy any games for it. I've been downloading a crap load of demo's for it. Gran Turismo HD & Heavenly Sword are nice. I like GT HD demo more than Forza 2, that game was a let down .

Soo has anyone made the jump to get a PS3 since the price drop? my local EB was telling me sony is trying to get rid of all the 60GB ps3's in stock. $499 with a free $25 remote and 5 free blu rays to me is a bargain, now all sony has to do is release some really good games. I must admit I like both my PS3 and 360 equally. My biggest dilemma is I dont want to start ignoring my 360, hopefully my pre-order of Bioshock will keep the love affair going with my 360 , that and all the new content every Wed from XBL is what I really love about the 360.

sooo, anyone else in the same boat?

[SNAAKE]

I have both and I dont play either

currently I am playing Wii and arcade games on modded xbox.

[hypernova]

the love affair

Apparently you have no love for $$$.  Allow me to elaborate:

But, I cannot bring my self to buy any games for it [PS3].

now all sony has to do is release some really good games

5 free blu rays

Every single "free movie offer" I've seen coupled with an HD-DVD or BR player has been a selection of 5 from a rather lackluster, if not crappy lot of 10 or 15.

made the jump

Nah...I'm not into financial suicide.  Buying into a format war when so far there is no clear front-runner can only be a bad idea.

Quite frankly, I hope they both tank.  That won't be the case, but I can still dream.

my local EB was telling me

Just a word of caution...Never invest a cent in what anyone in a video game store tells you.  They're as reliable/trustworthy as your nearest crack whore.  Although in this case, they're telling the truth.  But this is already old news.

sooo, anyone else in the same boat?

You just better hope your bluray boat doesn't capsize during the war, or that's quite a bit of dough down the drain.

[somunny]

$600 is financial suicide?  Man, you're living on the edge.

[Samstag]

I don't think you can really go wrong with the PS3 if you want high-def movies and will be playing games later.  Not that $500 is a reasonable price for a movie player, but soon enough there will be some great games for it.

I went the other route and bought the HD add-on for my 360.  I'll probably never buy a single disc, but I'm really loving the HD movies.  I already had a Netflix subscription so other than the $140 I paid for a used player, I'm not spending a dime on the format.  If it fails in a year or two I'll switch to whatever format is available.

[shmokes]

Buying into a format war when so far there is no clear front-runner can only be a bad idea.

This is true in general.  However, there is now a clear front-runner and has been for quite a few months now.  Blu-Ray titles have been FAR FAR FAR outselling HD-DVD titles, as have blu-ray players, thanks in no small part to PS3.  Blockbuster Video, after doing a trial run of carrying both formats in 250 stores decided about a month ago to ONLY stock Blu-Ray discs in all of their stores.  According to the president of blockbuster, when a customers rented high-definition discs they chose Blu-Ray 70% of the time.  Let me say that again, Blockbuster video has chosen to stock ONLY Blu-Ray.  That's a pretty freaking big blow to HD-DVD, especially considering the fact that they were already way behind in sales. 

It's not absolutely impossible that things could turn around, but it looks like HD-DVD has pretty well lost the war.  With that said, though, there are some really nice players just now coming to market, especially a Samsung one, that can play both formats so even if the war hasn't been won, it is set to become as irrelevant as DVD-R vs. DVD+R.

[odysseyroc]

I think there's a risk that the winner of this format war will end up as the next Laser Disc, instead of the new standard. I have 2 hdtvs in my house 52" and 65" and I'm happy enough with my upconverting dvd player. Even if one of the formats goes away, I'm not ready to pay more that $200 bucks for a media player.

[pointdablame]

Target has also decided to stock ONLY blu-ray players starting this holiday season or earlier, and it will continue that way indefinitely.

Blu-Ray is definitely in the lead, but I agree that it's still early and could still be a losing situation overall for the "winner"

[shmokes]

No way it'll become the next Laserdisc, IMO.  Why would it?  In five years Blu-Ray players are going to be as cheap as DVD players are today.  That's just the way things work.  And since a Blu-Ray player will play DVDs (which share an identical formfactor with HD discs), why would anyone choose to buy DVD players over Blu-Ray players?  It wouldn't make any sense.  And once they have a Blu-Ray player, they're surely going to buy Blu-Ray discs instead of DVDs.  They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD.  We're not even close to digital delivery going mainstream.   

[odysseyroc]

Target isn't going Blu-Ray exclusive.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/27/target-isnt-blu-ray-exclusive-at-all-but-bjs-wholesale-might/

Walmart is supposed to be selling a cheap HD DVD player by the holiday season.

[odysseyroc]

No way it'll become the next Laserdisc, IMO.  Why would it?  In five years Blu-Ray players are going to be as cheap as DVD players are today.  That's just the way things work.  And since a Blu-Ray player will play DVDs (which share an identical formfactor with HD discs), why would anyone choose to buy DVD players over Blu-Ray players?  It wouldn't make any sense.  And once they have a Blu-Ray player, they're surely going to buy Blu-Ray discs instead of DVDs.  They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD.  We're not even close to digital delivery going mainstream.   

Only 30% or so of American homes have an HDTV, Blu-Ray is useless for the other 70 or so percent. Most people have a nice collection of DVDs and having a hi-def player is going to mean replacing a good amount of those discs (just like they did with movies they already had on VHS when DVD came out). I don't think that digital delivery is the way to go either, I just think that both Hi-Def formats are ahead of their time, just like Laser Disc.

[shmokes]

Only 30% or so of American homes have an HDTV, Blu-Ray is useless for the other 70 or so percent. Most people have a nice collection of DVDs and having a hi-def player is going to mean replacing a good amount of those discs (just like they did with movies they already had on VHS when DVD came out).

That number is skyrocketing, though, and HD TVs are getting cheap fast.  And people will not have to replace their movie collections like they did when DVD came out because DVD players could not play VHS tapes while Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players can play DVDs and they can upconvert them to 720p/1080i/1080p too, so they'll probably actually improve your collection rather than render it obsolete.  Additionally, BluRay doesn't begin to offer the giant leap in quality that DVD did over VHS.  I mean, look what DVD brought to the table: CD-sized disc, no rewinding, amazing picture, 5.1 surround sound, multiple-speed searching, chapter selecting, interactive menus.  People wanted to replace their movie collection because DVD made VHS a relatively ---smurfy--- experience.  BluRay isn't going to make anybody but the hardcore trade in all their DVDs.  They'll just have both, but that'll be fine because the discs are identical, play in the same drive, etc.  It's no inconvenience at all.  The picture's just a bit better if they happen to be watching BluRay, but they certainly aren't suddenly going to be disgusted by DVD like they were with VHS.  You just don't lose anything when you buy a BluRay player.  Five years from now they will be so cheap that when your DVD player dies and you need to get a new one, you might as well be buying a new DVD player that happens to play BluRay discs too, rather than buying a new BluRay player.  There's just no good reason for both formats to die.  One or both of them will survive, and will slowly replace DVD.

[versapak]

It doesn't matter what format you choose for high definition. Neither format is performing well enough to be declared a winner of anything in the foreseeable future.


Also, it isn't like any movies you buy are going to suddenly stop working because one format is declared "the winner".


Hopefully, as the technology becomes cheaper, we will just see more and more dual format players become the norm. That is how the DVD recordable war was settled, and it worked out just fine.

[odysseyroc]

One of the reasons I'm hesitant to upgrade to a hd/blu-ray player is that I've pretty much got a dvd player in every room of the house. If I switch, any movie I will only be able to watch my new movies in one room, that's a big minus for me. Shmokes, you said that the bump in quality isn't enough to make you trade in you dvd collections. So why would I want to make the switch, if I'm going to have to replace all of my players for a format that is only marginally better? I'm anxious to get some hi-def content going for my tv's, but I don't know how soon I'll be ready to make the leap with the way things are now.

[versapak]

One of the reasons I'm hesitant to upgrade to a hd/blu-ray player is that I've pretty much got a dvd player in every room of the house. If I switch, any movie I will only be able to watch my new movies in one room, that's a big minus for me. Shmokes, you said that the bump in quality isn't enough to make you trade in you dvd collections. So why would I want to make the switch, if I'm going to have to replace all of my players for a format that is only marginally better? I'm anxious to get some hi-def content going for my tv's, but I don't know how soon I'll be ready to make the leap with the way things are now.

That is one of the reasons I actually went with HD DVD. The main reason was because it was a fairly cheap add-on for my 360, but it is very nice that there are several movies released in combo format with HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other.

I end up paying $5 more than the equivalent release on blu-ray, but then I can play the movie anywhere. This is a real bonus for movies that my kids are also wanting to watch, such as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

[Howard_Casto]

Schmokes figures aren't really valid.  The problem is nothing good has been released on either format yet.  The watchable movies (note I didn't say they were good) are only on blueray.  Why?  Because they are sony pictures movies.  The thing is nobody has really adopted either format.  How can I tell?  Simple.. there aren't any budget titles in either format yet.  There isn't a 1.99 blue ray crap box at your local walmart.  These things started popping up for dvds when they finally replaced vhs as the standard.  My best guess is that if there is a winner at all, it'll be hd-dvd... the players and discs are cheaper and easier to manufacturer.  Betamax vs vhs proved that quality means nothing.  

Also for every story you can find saying blueray is out-selling hd-dvd I can find one saying the opposite.  

Case in point:

http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2007/07/17/hd-dvd-sales-outpacing-blu-ray-in-the-us/

Just looking at those numbers, when you take game consoles out of the equation (which you should) it's 150,000 hd-dvd and around 105,000 blueray.  Still to close to call, and remember, 100,000 is nothing... this essentially tells us that neither is selling well.  Probably the first stand-alone player to make it to around a million will "win".  

[gavkiwi]

first off, I'm working a $h!t load of OT to pay for this new toy  . I did A LOT of research before I decided to go blu ray. All the signs are pointing to this format as being the dominant player in HD movies. From all the AV forums/websites I have visited the last 2 weeks, Blu Ray has alot more studios behind them, than HD.

HD DVD I believe the only studio that is exclusive to them is Universal. Disney, and Fox are going blu ray only, I love pixar movies and my Kids love the disney classics, also I read that Star Wars films/luca$ will eventually go blu ray as well. This to me is a good thing. Yes a few studios release on both formats, but it has been well publicised that Blu ray is now out selling HD.

Even though at this time HD has a larger selection of titles, all this will change when FOX releases its movie line up to blu ray. The 2 Pirates movies (BR) out sold the Matrix trilogy (HD) since they have been released, which is pretty much the Biggest titles imo soo far on both competing formats that have been released thus far.

I came very close to going HD DVD a few months back, mostly b/c of the cheaper price but I am confident I have made the right choice, and I dont see blu ray turning into the next laser disc, do ppl forget those things were the size of LP's. I mean that format was doomed from the get go  .

And of the 5 free blu ray movies, I Managed to find 5 good movies from the list, there are some stinkers on the list, but to each his own 

[AtomSmasher]

The problem is nothing good has been released on either format yet.

A quick check on Amazon and it looks like there are plenty of good movies on both formats, here's a few that I noticed

Good movies on Blu-Ray:
Blade Runner
The Untouchables
Goodfellas
Unforgiven

Good movies on HD DVD
The Thing
2001
The Shining
Casino
Casablanca
Apollo 13

some that I listed may be on both formats, I was just scanning the lists of movies out on each and picked a few good ones from each list.

[Samstag]

Only 30% or so of American homes have an HDTV

It's closer to 3% than 30%.

[odysseyroc]

Only 30% or so of American homes have an HDTV

It's closer to 3% than 30%.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31530/113/

[Howard_Casto]

The problem is nothing good has been released on either format yet.

A quick check on Amazon and it looks like there are plenty of good movies on both formats, here's a few that I noticed

Good movies on Blu-Ray:
Blade Runner
The Untouchables
Goodfellas
Unforgiven

Good movies on HD DVD
The Thing
2001
The Shining
Casino
Casablanca
Apollo 13

some that I listed may be on both formats, I was just scanning the lists of movies out on each and picked a few good ones from each list.

Sombody has some .. ahem... unique takes on what a good (read commercially viable) movie is. 

Going down your list. 

Blade Runner:  I'll give you it's a fantasic film, unfortunately it's 25 years old and only considered good by scifi geeks.

The Untouchables:  Overrated pos gangster film made popular in recent years by brain dead gangsta rappers.

Goodfellas:  See above (although this one is reasonably better)

Unforgiven:  Semi obscure western that just like blade runner is a fantastic film, but only appreciated by western geeks.

The Thing:  The scifi classic that pop culture has totally forgotten.  Again only appreciated by hardcore horror geeks.

2001:  For the most part nobody really understands this film.  Only film-school students have it in their permenant collection.

The Shining:  Nothing wrong with this one, it's actually a good movie that sells well.  Unfortunately it's around 30 years old at this point.

Casino:  Crap

Casablanca:  Do you really think people are going to want a hd version of a grainy black and white film?

Apollo 13:  I like it, the academy likes it, unfortunately I'm not so sure anybody else liked it.  Not that it didn't do well mind you, but that's about all it did, well. 

These are all film-lovers (read early adopters) films.

And these are just my opinions so I don't need somebody jumping all over me defending their favorite film or anything.  Actually I like most of these films personally, but as a realist I understand that unless you don't have these dvds already these probably aren't top-shelf films you are willing to buy all over again in hd format. 

Crazy popular films Like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings have yet to pick sides.  Once they do, it will be films like these, like it or not that will determine the winning format.  Sony is the only real un-bending backer of blue-ray and while they do have some blockbusters they aren't deal breakers. Same way with Hd-dvd and Universal.  That studio has certainly made some good films over the years, but not epic ones. Keep in mind that sony put a great deal of effort in promoting mini-disc and umd formats using this method of releasing their products only in their fomats and outside of japan they failed miserably in both instances.  New Line, Lucasflim and Parmount have yet to lock in on a side and since those are the three companies that make films people actually care to watch again, this isn't over by a long shot.

About the exclusive backers comment.  I'm not sure about the other two, but Disney is definately not backing blueray exclusively.  They just signed a big deal to deliver all of their films in hd via xbox live.  Since m$ is a big hd-dvd backer I would guess they they are still testing the waters at this point.

Also having a hd-tv or even a ps3/360 does NOT make you a potential buyer so I'm not so sure the number of sets out there really matters yet. Ever seen these surverys they periodically do amongst people that already own said devices?  Generally around 40% (this is just an approx figure) of these people either don't know what hd is or that their device can do it.  Of the remaining 60% around 20-30% don't or can't use the devices hd capabilities yet.  Also the percentage of people that buy a console just to watch hd content is very very low.  Of course dedicated players are different, but in closing and trying to wrangle this mess of a thread back on topic.... 

I don't really think the fact that the ps3 is a blueray player and the 360 isn't has anything to do with the ps3's success or lack there of.  Now the fact that the ps3's blueray drive is what makes it so damn expensive probably does, but I'm sure that that's offset by the fact that japan laps up any sony format and will buy a system just to get a cheap player.  Then again it's not doing so well in japan either. 

So why would someone want a ps3 (right now) again?

[AtomSmasher]

I didn't realize your defination of a good movie is a movie that sells well.  My defination of a good movie is a movie that is actually good.  I do find it kind of funny that you consider Unforgiven semi obscure considering its won 4 oscars including best picture, but how obscure a movie is has little to do with how good it is, so it doesn't really matter.

I agree there are still a lot of good movies that need to be converted to HD, but you even agreed there are at least a couple fantasic movies already available on HD, so theres not exactly "nothing good" released yet.  When picking out movies I decided to pick out some of my favorites, but most new movies released on dvd are also being released in HD, so theres plenty of pop-cul favorites that will sell quite well (like 300 or Happy Feet).

edit* just thought I'd mention that according to amazons sales charts, Blade Runner is #3 recent top seller for blu-ray (300 is #1) and is #5 for HD-DVD (again 300 is #1), 2001 is #15, and the Shining #21.  Seems some of these obscure movies are selling quite well.

[Goz]

Pay no attention to Howard and his 'opinion' do what you will.... It took a solid year before some good titles came out for the 360 as far as games go and it'll take prolly the same amount of time for the PS3. Movie studios no doubt are waiting for a clear winner before spending the $ to go all out on either format.

[gavkiwi]

You know, as well as I do....that everyones movie tastes are different. A good way to find who has the best 'movie taste' is to write down your TOP 10 favorite movies of all time (we all have that list). You know the ones you can watch over and over again and they just keep getting better.

goto www.imdb.com, get the 'avg' rating on IMDB for each movie, add the avg rating for all 10 movies together, and then compare everyones score LOL.

The beauty about IMDB is everyones opinon is different, and for the most part, I agree with that rating system.

just an idea, sooo off to best buy to buy my first Blu Ray discs :p

[geomartin]

They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD. 

Wow!  I'm only 39 years old and I have already lived a once in a lifetime experience TWICE!  VHS and DVD

[Malenko]

a very good read in this thread so far, though the title should be changed to BluRay vs HD DVD =)


I must interject that the 300 is not a pop culture flick, its just a great action film based on a graphic novel.  As for the "format wars" To think that gamers will decide the winner is , I dunno, a bit far fetched. I will admit that those who purchase a PS3 are less likely to buy a HD DVD player just like those like me who bought a HD DVD add on drive for their 360 are less likely to buy a BluRay player; but ultimately its going to come down to sales of discs. The 360 HD DVD is the first time I've ever used my gaming machine as a dedicated movie player. When I first got both my XBOX and my PS2 I already had a plethora of DVD players, a PC, a laptop, and a stand alone player and I rarely used either console to watch a movie.

As for the sales, its a bit skewed since not every movie is available on both formats there is no clear way to decide it all, but I honestly think that having two formats was probably the dumbest move they could make, I know they wanted to form a consensus on the format, like they did with the CD and DVD standards but I dunno it seems like the movie studio  dropping quarters to bend over and pick up pennies. While I certainly hope HD DVD is either "the winner" or at least has a buncha movies on it I want, the fact of the matter is there are no games on the PS3 that make me want to own one. A few of the exclusives they had are no longer exclusives and some of the PS3 only titles dont interest me anymore (Forza > Gran Turismo, in my eyes) and in lacking a PS3 I lack the desire to own BluRay.

I am a movie buff now more then I am a gamer, a far cry from what I was just 5 years ago. I have about 50 XBOX 360 games, but I have over 400 DVDs and about 20 HD DVDs and it does suck that Sony has a lock on so many movies I want, but thats why I either get the regular DVD or just don't get it at all.

now to get off topic a little:
the HD version of a movie isnt always better, I bought Pay Back on HD DVD to replace my regular DVD but its some director recut of the film and quite frankly it sucks and didnt have the original film on the disc.  Both "The 300" and TMNT both look and sound amazing in HD DVD and Im sure they look and sound just as great on BluRay.

As for Favorite movies of all time, I dont keep a numerical list but heres a brief list:

Freeway, The Game, Cinderella Man, Gladiator,  SinCity, Ace Ventura (both), Clerks (both), grandma's boy, Payback, Shade, Super Troopers.... I'll stop right there because I could add another 100 to the list.

[Samstag]

For those of you looking for a system to play games and HD movies, Amazon currently has an interesting combo deal on the 360.  Buy an Elite (120 gig hard drive), HD-DVD add-on, and "300" for $599.  The HD player comes with King Kong and is eligible for the 5 free HD-DVD deal, so that's 7 movies in all.

It makes an interesting alternative to the PS3.  The advantages are the large library of games and a larger hard drive. The disadvantages are that the HD player is separate and the price is higher (if you compare to the 60 gig ps3, but even if you compare to the new 80).

But in both cases if you're not seriously itching to play the new games and HD movies, it would be a good idea to wait a little longer.  The PS3 is seriously lacking in games and the 360 still has reliability issues.  Both may be resolved by the holidays.  I think this will be a HUGE Christmas for gaming.

[Sir Auros]

The high-def format war is largely irrelevant since HDTVs are nowhere near as prevalent as enthusiasts would like to believe, and mainstream consumers aren't going to attach a high enough value to adopt a new format now, especially when the jump from DVD to either high-def format is ridiculously far away from the difference between VHS and DVD.

[shmokes]

They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD.

Wow!  I'm only 39 years old and I have already lived a once in a lifetime experience TWICE!  VHS and DVD

DVD players a are the fastest-selling consumer electronic in history.  VHS did not explode in popularity like the DVD.  No new technology has EVER been adopted as quickly and ubiquitously as the DVD.  Not VHS, not TV, not CD, not even radios.

[hypernova]

$600 is financial suicide?  Man, you're living on the edge.

You got that kind of money to go blow willy-nilly?

[sosuke]

$600 is financial suicide?  Man, you're living on the edge.

You got that kind of money to go blow willy-nilly?

Yeah... it's called not getting married or having kids

but I do think spending 500$+ on (at this point) a blu-ray player is pointless. When some actual games come out for it, then it _might_ be worth 400$.... I really stress might because consoles are so over priced now for the very few good games that come out on them. I can look at the PS3 catalog and there is one game out right now that I would buy (hot shots 5). And only 2 coming out in the next year that I want (GT5 and FFXIII)... really doesn't make a person want to buy one.

Of course the 360 isn't much better, it has 3 games out that I would want (Forza II, Blue Dragon, and one other RPG I saw coming out soon).

It seems like with the PS3 and 360, if you don't play sports games or FPS there isn't much out right now.

[geomartin]

They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD.

Wow!  I'm only 39 years old and I have already lived a once in a lifetime experience TWICE!  VHS and DVD

DVD players a are the fastest-selling consumer electronic in history.  VHS did not explode in popularity like the DVD.  No new technology has EVER been adopted as quickly and ubiquitously as the DVD.  Not VHS, not TV, not CD, not even radios.

Really?  I remember having to lay down $300 or $500 security deposits to start a rental membership when VHS was King.  Movie rentals were 24hr. and you had to get on waiting lists all the time.  VHS established the consumer base, and DVD stands on it's shoulders proudly.  They are now after 20+ years finally phasing it out of circulation.  Maybe it didn"t explode as fast, but DVD will likely not match it's longevity in the marketplace.

But what I think made the VHS more of a once in a lifetime over DVD is that before VHS, if you did not go see the movie at the theaters you were likely to never see it.  If you were able to watch it on TV it was years later, it was probably dated material by then and it was definitely edited to death.

[boykster]

I'm a big movie guy, and a bit of a videophile, and I'm holding off on upgrading to HD-DVD / Bluray until 2 things happen.  

1) prices on the players settle down.  Anyone remember when DVD players first came out?  they were VERY expensive, ala the current HD disc formats.  Same deal with SACD vs DVD-A.  Until prices settle down to the point where the choice between a HD disc player vs a decent dvd player is essentially a non-issue (ie +/- $50) the common consumer won't be buying.

2) either a winner or unified winner emerges, or the dual format players become the norm.  

I was an early adopter of HD programming and of the DVD format (after being wise enough to NOT get burned on the laserdisc format) but will sit the fence until things work themselves out.  I do see the quality difference between a well mastered HD title vs a well mastered DVD title, and I think given enough time, one of the 2 new formats will quietly take over for DVD, but I don't see it as the wave of adoption you saw with DVD over VHS.  

I disagree however with the contention of some that the difference between HDDVD/Blueray vs DVD isn't that noticeable.  Considering the facts: 30% adoption of HD sets, that leaves the rest of the viewing public watching DVD's on SD sets.  the jump to 1080p from 480i is a HUGE quality improvement.

The other 2 technical adoption issues for me are:

- distribution of HDMI/HDCP - I currently distrubute video content throughout my house in component video format.  there is not as of right now any way to reliably distribute HDMI to multiple display locations over longer distances.

- hard drive based storage and playback of HD titles - the mechanism to rip and playback Bluray and HDDVD is more complicated than for DVD's, and the storage requirements are MUCH higher.  I almost never watch a DVD that hasn't been ripped and added to my movie system.  

[SavannahLion]

It's a bit of a stretch to say Video Gamers are going to decide a format war.

Looking back through history formats and their battles. It's hard to say what will ensure the survival and dominance of either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. In each "battle" the decisive dominance was always a little different. In one, it was generally dependibility. In another, dependibility went out the window. In one, it was quality, in another quality wasn't even considered.

Introduction dual players have been mentioned as an indicator, one that looks to be the ultimate outcome given the history of CD-+R and DVD-+R formats.

But no one mentioned children or porn films.

In the past, The male was the deciding purchaser of electronic toys. Whatever format the porn industry chooses is a pretty good deciding factor in what the final outcome of this will be. It's been noted that the porn industry shifted to using VHS over the competing Beta format long before the outcome of either was decided.

Tech savy children have greater purchasing power (through mom and dad) than at any time in the past. Whatever standardized movie format they're watching will likely be a good indicator of the direction of the market, if not the lead on the market.

[Sir Auros]

Given what's been available in the high-def porn arena, I don't think that's going to be a huge deciding factor this time. Porn doesn't belong in high-def unless you want to stare at ass zits.

Just another reason I think that even with HDTVs (slowly) entering the mainstream, neither of these formats is likely to be successful for a while, if at all.

[whatzcrackn]

I am still playing movies on my beta player! 

[KenToad]

This is an interesting discussion, but I'm definitely thinking that neither format will win and we will continue to have DVD's for quite a while. 

My take on the switch from VHS to DVD was that most people switched because of three reasons: 

1.  No need to rewind and instant scene selection.

2.  Movies in original (widescreen) format.

3.  DVD extras (for example, the option to have subtitles, a different language or commentary)

Call me crazy, but only tech-heads such as you guys who already have or dream of going HD really cares about the super-sharp picture and crystal clear audio that is available on the new formats. 

My prediction is that HD video products will never sweep the market like VHS or DVD. 

*Edit* Just realized that Shmokes said something similar to this several posts up and I agree with his comment that people might replace their broken DVD players with whatever form of HD player that is cheaper and/or more widespread, since those players will play both HD and DVD.  I also had no idea that HD players could improve the playback of DVD's.  How does that work?   

[hulkster]

This is an interesting discussion, but I'm definitely thinking that neither format will win and we will continue to have DVD's for quite a while. 

My take on the switch from VHS to DVD was that most people switched because of three reasons: 

1.  No need to rewind and instant scene selection.

2.  Movies in original (widescreen) format.

3.  DVD extras (for example, the option to have subtitles, a different language or commentary)

Call me crazy, but only tech-heads such as you guys who already have or dream of going HD really cares about the super-sharp picture and crystal clear audio that is available on the new formats. 

My prediction is that HD video products will never sweep the market like VHS or DVD. 

i agree.  the jump from vhs to dvd didnt just provide better picture, but a slew of other features.  and also, i think a big difference in the two generations is that when i bought my first dvd and dvd player, i could hook it up to my current tv and see a HUGE difference in picture quality.  contrast that with standard dvd vs. high def dvd....you really need to get a tv thats going to take full advantage of the technology, plus you need to buy the cables for it and stuff. 

this has turned into a format war discussion, but just on the game console front....i buy my game systems to play games, not to double as an all in one.  thats just one mans opinion though.

oh and i have a 360 and a wii btw.

[boykster]

One thing to consider re: the move from VHS to DVD was the different licensing costs to rental stores like blockbuster etc for the different media.  For VHS movies, rental stores had to buy rental copies of VHS movies that included a HUGE licensing/revenue sharing built into the cost of the tape.  If a movie retailed for $20, the rental copy could cost as much as $75.  When DVD's started to hit the rental markets, there wasn't this built in revenue sharing model, so rental stores were able to rent retail copies at a significantly lower cost to stock the shelves.

It was almost overnight that the blockbuster video stores in the seattle area went from only having a few DVD's to having almoste entirely ALL DVD titles....

[odysseyroc]

This is an interesting discussion, but I'm definitely thinking that neither format will win and we will continue to have DVD's for quite a while. 

My take on the switch from VHS to DVD was that most people switched because of three reasons: 

1.  No need to rewind and instant scene selection.

2.  Movies in original (widescreen) format.

3.  DVD extras (for example, the option to have subtitles, a different language or commentary)

Call me crazy, but only tech-heads such as you guys who already have or dream of going HD really cares about the super-sharp picture and crystal clear audio that is available on the new formats. 

My prediction is that HD video products will never sweep the market like VHS or DVD. 

*Edit* Just realized that Shmokes said something similar to this several posts up and I agree with his comment that people might replace their broken DVD players with whatever form of HD player that is cheaper and/or more widespread, since those players will play both HD and DVD.  I also had no idea that HD players could improve the playback of DVD's.  How does that work?   

This is what I was talking about when I said that the winner of this war is likely to be the next Laserdisc and not the next dvd. Looking at my collection only about 1/3 at most is worth replacing for hi-def. Superior technology doesn't always equal mass appeal.