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Author Topic: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?  (Read 14597 times)

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gavkiwi

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all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« on: August 11, 2007, 04:20:16 pm »
sooo, I got a PS3 this week, mainly as a Blu Ray HD player to go with my HD setup, I thought for $12 more than the stand alone BR dvd player, and with a free remote and 5 free Blu Ray movies, I thought what the heck.

So now my PS3 and XBOX 360 live in the same ent center. But, I cannot bring my self to buy any games for it. I've been downloading a crap load of demo's for it. Gran Turismo HD & Heavenly Sword are nice. I like GT HD demo more than Forza 2, that game was a let down :(.

Soo has anyone made the jump to get a PS3 since the price drop? my local EB was telling me sony is trying to get rid of all the 60GB ps3's in stock. $499 with a free $25 remote and 5 free blu rays to me is a bargain, now all sony has to do is release some really good games. I must admit I like both my PS3 and 360 equally. My biggest dilemma is I dont want to start ignoring my 360, hopefully my pre-order of Bioshock will keep the love affair going with my 360 :), that and all the new content every Wed from XBL is what I really love about the 360.

sooo, anyone else in the same boat?

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2007, 04:44:49 pm »
I have both and I dont play either :dunno

currently I am playing Wii and arcade games on modded xbox.

hypernova

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2007, 08:31:43 pm »
Quote
the love affair

Apparently you have no love for $$$.  Allow me to elaborate:

Quote
But, I cannot bring my self to buy any games for it [PS3].

Quote
now all sony has to do is release some really good games

Quote
5 free blu rays

Every single "free movie offer" I've seen coupled with an HD-DVD or BR player has been a selection of 5 from a rather lackluster, if not crappy lot of 10 or 15.

Quote
made the jump

Nah...I'm not into financial suicide.  Buying into a format war when so far there is no clear front-runner can only be a bad idea.

Quite frankly, I hope they both tank.  That won't be the case, but I can still dream.

Quote
my local EB was telling me

Just a word of caution...Never invest a cent in what anyone in a video game store tells you.  They're as reliable/trustworthy as your nearest crack whore.  Although in this case, they're telling the truth.  But this is already old news.

Quote
sooo, anyone else in the same boat?

You just better hope your bluray boat doesn't capsize during the war, or that's quite a bit of dough down the drain.
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somunny

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2007, 09:09:22 pm »
$600 is financial suicide?  Man, you're living on the edge.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2007, 09:16:28 pm »
I don't think you can really go wrong with the PS3 if you want high-def movies and will be playing games later.  Not that $500 is a reasonable price for a movie player, but soon enough there will be some great games for it.

I went the other route and bought the HD add-on for my 360.  I'll probably never buy a single disc, but I'm really loving the HD movies.  I already had a Netflix subscription so other than the $140 I paid for a used player, I'm not spending a dime on the format.  If it fails in a year or two I'll switch to whatever format is available.

shmokes

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2007, 10:32:49 pm »

Buying into a format war when so far there is no clear front-runner can only be a bad idea.


This is true in general.  However, there is now a clear front-runner and has been for quite a few months now.  Blu-Ray titles have been FAR FAR FAR outselling HD-DVD titles, as have blu-ray players, thanks in no small part to PS3.  Blockbuster Video, after doing a trial run of carrying both formats in 250 stores decided about a month ago to ONLY stock Blu-Ray discs in all of their stores.  According to the president of blockbuster, when a customers rented high-definition discs they chose Blu-Ray 70% of the time.  Let me say that again, Blockbuster video has chosen to stock ONLY Blu-Ray.  That's a pretty freaking big blow to HD-DVD, especially considering the fact that they were already way behind in sales. 

It's not absolutely impossible that things could turn around, but it looks like HD-DVD has pretty well lost the war.  With that said, though, there are some really nice players just now coming to market, especially a Samsung one, that can play both formats so even if the war hasn't been won, it is set to become as irrelevant as DVD-R vs. DVD+R.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2007, 10:44:54 pm »
I think there's a risk that the winner of this format war will end up as the next Laser Disc, instead of the new standard. I have 2 hdtvs in my house 52" and 65" and I'm happy enough with my upconverting dvd player. Even if one of the formats goes away, I'm not ready to pay more that $200 bucks for a media player.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2007, 11:11:11 pm »
Target has also decided to stock ONLY blu-ray players starting this holiday season or earlier, and it will continue that way indefinitely.

Blu-Ray is definitely in the lead, but I agree that it's still early and could still be a losing situation overall for the "winner"
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2007, 11:21:59 pm »
No way it'll become the next Laserdisc, IMO.  Why would it?  In five years Blu-Ray players are going to be as cheap as DVD players are today.  That's just the way things work.  And since a Blu-Ray player will play DVDs (which share an identical formfactor with HD discs), why would anyone choose to buy DVD players over Blu-Ray players?  It wouldn't make any sense.  And once they have a Blu-Ray player, they're surely going to buy Blu-Ray discs instead of DVDs.  They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD.  We're not even close to digital delivery going mainstream.   
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2007, 11:29:11 pm »
Target isn't going Blu-Ray exclusive.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/27/target-isnt-blu-ray-exclusive-at-all-but-bjs-wholesale-might/

Walmart is supposed to be selling a cheap HD DVD player by the holiday season.

odysseyroc

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2007, 11:41:29 pm »
No way it'll become the next Laserdisc, IMO.  Why would it?  In five years Blu-Ray players are going to be as cheap as DVD players are today.  That's just the way things work.  And since a Blu-Ray player will play DVDs (which share an identical formfactor with HD discs), why would anyone choose to buy DVD players over Blu-Ray players?  It wouldn't make any sense.  And once they have a Blu-Ray player, they're surely going to buy Blu-Ray discs instead of DVDs.  They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD.  We're not even close to digital delivery going mainstream.   

Only 30% or so of American homes have an HDTV, Blu-Ray is useless for the other 70 or so percent. Most people have a nice collection of DVDs and having a hi-def player is going to mean replacing a good amount of those discs (just like they did with movies they already had on VHS when DVD came out). I don't think that digital delivery is the way to go either, I just think that both Hi-Def formats are ahead of their time, just like Laser Disc.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2007, 11:59:48 pm »

Only 30% or so of American homes have an HDTV, Blu-Ray is useless for the other 70 or so percent. Most people have a nice collection of DVDs and having a hi-def player is going to mean replacing a good amount of those discs (just like they did with movies they already had on VHS when DVD came out).


That number is skyrocketing, though, and HD TVs are getting cheap fast.  And people will not have to replace their movie collections like they did when DVD came out because DVD players could not play VHS tapes while Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players can play DVDs and they can upconvert them to 720p/1080i/1080p too, so they'll probably actually improve your collection rather than render it obsolete.  Additionally, BluRay doesn't begin to offer the giant leap in quality that DVD did over VHS.  I mean, look what DVD brought to the table: CD-sized disc, no rewinding, amazing picture, 5.1 surround sound, multiple-speed searching, chapter selecting, interactive menus.  People wanted to replace their movie collection because DVD made VHS a relatively ---smurfy--- experience.  BluRay isn't going to make anybody but the hardcore trade in all their DVDs.  They'll just have both, but that'll be fine because the discs are identical, play in the same drive, etc.  It's no inconvenience at all.  The picture's just a bit better if they happen to be watching BluRay, but they certainly aren't suddenly going to be disgusted by DVD like they were with VHS.  You just don't lose anything when you buy a BluRay player.  Five years from now they will be so cheap that when your DVD player dies and you need to get a new one, you might as well be buying a new DVD player that happens to play BluRay discs too, rather than buying a new BluRay player.  There's just no good reason for both formats to die.  One or both of them will survive, and will slowly replace DVD.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2007, 12:58:58 am »
It doesn't matter what format you choose for high definition. Neither format is performing well enough to be declared a winner of anything in the foreseeable future.


Also, it isn't like any movies you buy are going to suddenly stop working because one format is declared "the winner".


Hopefully, as the technology becomes cheaper, we will just see more and more dual format players become the norm. That is how the DVD recordable war was settled, and it worked out just fine.






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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2007, 01:04:51 am »
One of the reasons I'm hesitant to upgrade to a hd/blu-ray player is that I've pretty much got a dvd player in every room of the house. If I switch, any movie I will only be able to watch my new movies in one room, that's a big minus for me. Shmokes, you said that the bump in quality isn't enough to make you trade in you dvd collections. So why would I want to make the switch, if I'm going to have to replace all of my players for a format that is only marginally better? I'm anxious to get some hi-def content going for my tv's, but I don't know how soon I'll be ready to make the leap with the way things are now.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2007, 01:21:30 am »
One of the reasons I'm hesitant to upgrade to a hd/blu-ray player is that I've pretty much got a dvd player in every room of the house. If I switch, any movie I will only be able to watch my new movies in one room, that's a big minus for me. Shmokes, you said that the bump in quality isn't enough to make you trade in you dvd collections. So why would I want to make the switch, if I'm going to have to replace all of my players for a format that is only marginally better? I'm anxious to get some hi-def content going for my tv's, but I don't know how soon I'll be ready to make the leap with the way things are now.


That is one of the reasons I actually went with HD DVD. The main reason was because it was a fairly cheap add-on for my 360, but it is very nice that there are several movies released in combo format with HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other.

I end up paying $5 more than the equivalent release on blu-ray, but then I can play the movie anywhere. This is a real bonus for movies that my kids are also wanting to watch, such as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.




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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2007, 01:28:50 am »
Schmokes figures aren't really valid.  The problem is nothing good has been released on either format yet.  The watchable movies (note I didn't say they were good) are only on blueray.  Why?  Because they are sony pictures movies.  The thing is nobody has really adopted either format.  How can I tell?  Simple.. there aren't any budget titles in either format yet.  There isn't a 1.99 blue ray crap box at your local walmart.  These things started popping up for dvds when they finally replaced vhs as the standard.  My best guess is that if there is a winner at all, it'll be hd-dvd... the players and discs are cheaper and easier to manufacturer.  Betamax vs vhs proved that quality means nothing.  

Also for every story you can find saying blueray is out-selling hd-dvd I can find one saying the opposite.  

Case in point:

http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2007/07/17/hd-dvd-sales-outpacing-blu-ray-in-the-us/

Just looking at those numbers, when you take game consoles out of the equation (which you should) it's 150,000 hd-dvd and around 105,000 blueray.  Still to close to call, and remember, 100,000 is nothing... this essentially tells us that neither is selling well.  Probably the first stand-alone player to make it to around a million will "win".  

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2007, 01:43:24 am »
first off, I'm working a $h!t load of OT to pay for this new toy  :angel:. I did A LOT of research before I decided to go blu ray. All the signs are pointing to this format as being the dominant player in HD movies. From all the AV forums/websites I have visited the last 2 weeks, Blu Ray has alot more studios behind them, than HD.

HD DVD I believe the only studio that is exclusive to them is Universal. Disney, and Fox are going blu ray only, I love pixar movies and my Kids love the disney classics, also I read that Star Wars films/luca$ will eventually go blu ray as well. This to me is a good thing. Yes a few studios release on both formats, but it has been well publicised that Blu ray is now out selling HD.

Even though at this time HD has a larger selection of titles, all this will change when FOX releases its movie line up to blu ray. The 2 Pirates movies (BR) out sold the Matrix trilogy (HD) since they have been released, which is pretty much the Biggest titles imo soo far on both competing formats that have been released thus far.

I came very close to going HD DVD a few months back, mostly b/c of the cheaper price but I am confident I have made the right choice, and I dont see blu ray turning into the next laser disc, do ppl forget those things were the size of LP's. I mean that format was doomed from the get go  :cheers:.

And of the 5 free blu ray movies, I Managed to find 5 good movies from the list, there are some stinkers on the list, but to each his own  :P
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 01:46:21 am by gavkiwi »

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2007, 01:49:25 am »
The problem is nothing good has been released on either format yet.
A quick check on Amazon and it looks like there are plenty of good movies on both formats, here's a few that I noticed

Good movies on Blu-Ray:
Blade Runner
The Untouchables
Goodfellas
Unforgiven

Good movies on HD DVD
The Thing
2001
The Shining
Casino
Casablanca
Apollo 13

some that I listed may be on both formats, I was just scanning the lists of movies out on each and picked a few good ones from each list.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2007, 01:56:34 am »
Only 30% or so of American homes have an HDTV

It's closer to 3% than 30%.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2007, 06:45:52 am »
The problem is nothing good has been released on either format yet.
A quick check on Amazon and it looks like there are plenty of good movies on both formats, here's a few that I noticed

Good movies on Blu-Ray:
Blade Runner
The Untouchables
Goodfellas
Unforgiven

Good movies on HD DVD
The Thing
2001
The Shining
Casino
Casablanca
Apollo 13

some that I listed may be on both formats, I was just scanning the lists of movies out on each and picked a few good ones from each list.

Sombody has some .. ahem... unique takes on what a good (read commercially viable) movie is. 

Going down your list. 

Blade Runner:  I'll give you it's a fantasic film, unfortunately it's 25 years old and only considered good by scifi geeks.

The Untouchables:  Overrated pos gangster film made popular in recent years by brain dead gangsta rappers.

Goodfellas:  See above (although this one is reasonably better)

Unforgiven:  Semi obscure western that just like blade runner is a fantastic film, but only appreciated by western geeks.

The Thing:  The scifi classic that pop culture has totally forgotten.  Again only appreciated by hardcore horror geeks.

2001:  For the most part nobody really understands this film.  Only film-school students have it in their permenant collection.

The Shining:  Nothing wrong with this one, it's actually a good movie that sells well.  Unfortunately it's around 30 years old at this point.

Casino:  Crap

Casablanca:  Do you really think people are going to want a hd version of a grainy black and white film?

Apollo 13:  I like it, the academy likes it, unfortunately I'm not so sure anybody else liked it.  Not that it didn't do well mind you, but that's about all it did, well. 

These are all film-lovers (read early adopters) films.

And these are just my opinions so I don't need somebody jumping all over me defending their favorite film or anything.  Actually I like most of these films personally, but as a realist I understand that unless you don't have these dvds already these probably aren't top-shelf films you are willing to buy all over again in hd format. 

Crazy popular films Like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings have yet to pick sides.  Once they do, it will be films like these, like it or not that will determine the winning format.  Sony is the only real un-bending backer of blue-ray and while they do have some blockbusters they aren't deal breakers. Same way with Hd-dvd and Universal.  That studio has certainly made some good films over the years, but not epic ones. Keep in mind that sony put a great deal of effort in promoting mini-disc and umd formats using this method of releasing their products only in their fomats and outside of japan they failed miserably in both instances.  New Line, Lucasflim and Parmount have yet to lock in on a side and since those are the three companies that make films people actually care to watch again, this isn't over by a long shot.

About the exclusive backers comment.  I'm not sure about the other two, but Disney is definately not backing blueray exclusively.  They just signed a big deal to deliver all of their films in hd via xbox live.  Since m$ is a big hd-dvd backer I would guess they they are still testing the waters at this point.

Also having a hd-tv or even a ps3/360 does NOT make you a potential buyer so I'm not so sure the number of sets out there really matters yet. Ever seen these surverys they periodically do amongst people that already own said devices?  Generally around 40% (this is just an approx figure) of these people either don't know what hd is or that their device can do it.  Of the remaining 60% around 20-30% don't or can't use the devices hd capabilities yet.  Also the percentage of people that buy a console just to watch hd content is very very low.  Of course dedicated players are different, but in closing and trying to wrangle this mess of a thread back on topic.... 

I don't really think the fact that the ps3 is a blueray player and the 360 isn't has anything to do with the ps3's success or lack there of.  Now the fact that the ps3's blueray drive is what makes it so damn expensive probably does, but I'm sure that that's offset by the fact that japan laps up any sony format and will buy a system just to get a cheap player.  Then again it's not doing so well in japan either. 

So why would someone want a ps3 (right now) again?

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2007, 11:13:34 am »
I didn't realize your defination of a good movie is a movie that sells well.  My defination of a good movie is a movie that is actually good.  I do find it kind of funny that you consider Unforgiven semi obscure considering its won 4 oscars including best picture, but how obscure a movie is has little to do with how good it is, so it doesn't really matter.

I agree there are still a lot of good movies that need to be converted to HD, but you even agreed there are at least a couple fantasic movies already available on HD, so theres not exactly "nothing good" released yet.  When picking out movies I decided to pick out some of my favorites, but most new movies released on dvd are also being released in HD, so theres plenty of pop-cul favorites that will sell quite well (like 300 or Happy Feet).

edit* just thought I'd mention that according to amazons sales charts, Blade Runner is #3 recent top seller for blu-ray (300 is #1) and is #5 for HD-DVD (again 300 is #1), 2001 is #15, and the Shining #21.  Seems some of these obscure movies are selling quite well.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 11:18:39 am by AtomSmasher »

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2007, 02:37:14 pm »
Pay no attention to Howard and his 'opinion' do what you will.... It took a solid year before some good titles came out for the 360 as far as games go and it'll take prolly the same amount of time for the PS3. Movie studios no doubt are waiting for a clear winner before spending the $ to go all out on either format.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2007, 03:19:15 pm »
You know, as well as I do....that everyones movie tastes are different. A good way to find who has the best 'movie taste' is to write down your TOP 10 favorite movies of all time (we all have that list). You know the ones you can watch over and over again and they just keep getting better.

goto www.imdb.com, get the 'avg' rating on IMDB for each movie, add the avg rating for all 10 movies together, and then compare everyones score LOL.

The beauty about IMDB is everyones opinon is different, and for the most part, I agree with that rating system.

just an idea, sooo off to best buy to buy my first Blu Ray discs :p

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2007, 03:51:40 pm »
They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD. 

Wow!  I'm only 39 years old and I have already lived a once in a lifetime experience TWICE!  VHS and DVD ;D
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2007, 06:38:54 pm »
a very good read in this thread so far, though the title should be changed to BluRay vs HD DVD =)


I must interject that the 300 is not a pop culture flick, its just a great action film based on a graphic novel.  As for the "format wars" To think that gamers will decide the winner is , I dunno, a bit far fetched. I will admit that those who purchase a PS3 are less likely to buy a HD DVD player just like those like me who bought a HD DVD add on drive for their 360 are less likely to buy a BluRay player; but ultimately its going to come down to sales of discs. The 360 HD DVD is the first time I've ever used my gaming machine as a dedicated movie player. When I first got both my XBOX and my PS2 I already had a plethora of DVD players, a PC, a laptop, and a stand alone player and I rarely used either console to watch a movie.

As for the sales, its a bit skewed since not every movie is available on both formats there is no clear way to decide it all, but I honestly think that having two formats was probably the dumbest move they could make, I know they wanted to form a consensus on the format, like they did with the CD and DVD standards but I dunno it seems like the movie studio  dropping quarters to bend over and pick up pennies. While I certainly hope HD DVD is either "the winner" or at least has a buncha movies on it I want, the fact of the matter is there are no games on the PS3 that make me want to own one. A few of the exclusives they had are no longer exclusives and some of the PS3 only titles dont interest me anymore (Forza > Gran Turismo, in my eyes) and in lacking a PS3 I lack the desire to own BluRay.

I am a movie buff now more then I am a gamer, a far cry from what I was just 5 years ago. I have about 50 XBOX 360 games, but I have over 400 DVDs and about 20 HD DVDs and it does suck that Sony has a lock on so many movies I want, but thats why I either get the regular DVD or just don't get it at all.

now to get off topic a little:
the HD version of a movie isnt always better, I bought Pay Back on HD DVD to replace my regular DVD but its some director recut of the film and quite frankly it sucks and didnt have the original film on the disc.  Both "The 300" and TMNT both look and sound amazing in HD DVD and Im sure they look and sound just as great on BluRay.

As for Favorite movies of all time, I dont keep a numerical list but heres a brief list:

Freeway, The Game, Cinderella Man, Gladiator,  SinCity, Ace Ventura (both), Clerks (both), grandma's boy, Payback, Shade, Super Troopers.... I'll stop right there because I could add another 100 to the list.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2007, 07:10:15 pm »
For those of you looking for a system to play games and HD movies, Amazon currently has an interesting combo deal on the 360.  Buy an Elite (120 gig hard drive), HD-DVD add-on, and "300" for $599.  The HD player comes with King Kong and is eligible for the 5 free HD-DVD deal, so that's 7 movies in all.

It makes an interesting alternative to the PS3.  The advantages are the large library of games and a larger hard drive. The disadvantages are that the HD player is separate and the price is higher (if you compare to the 60 gig ps3, but even if you compare to the new 80).

But in both cases if you're not seriously itching to play the new games and HD movies, it would be a good idea to wait a little longer.  The PS3 is seriously lacking in games and the 360 still has reliability issues.  Both may be resolved by the holidays.  I think this will be a HUGE Christmas for gaming.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2007, 08:07:30 pm »
The high-def format war is largely irrelevant since HDTVs are nowhere near as prevalent as enthusiasts would like to believe, and mainstream consumers aren't going to attach a high enough value to adopt a new format now, especially when the jump from DVD to either high-def format is ridiculously far away from the difference between VHS and DVD.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2007, 12:22:36 am »
They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD.

Wow!  I'm only 39 years old and I have already lived a once in a lifetime experience TWICE!  VHS and DVD ;D

DVD players a are the fastest-selling consumer electronic in history.  VHS did not explode in popularity like the DVD.  No new technology has EVER been adopted as quickly and ubiquitously as the DVD.  Not VHS, not TV, not CD, not even radios.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2007, 06:04:50 pm »
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2007, 07:02:48 pm »
Quote
$600 is financial suicide?  Man, you're living on the edge.

You got that kind of money to go blow willy-nilly?

Yeah... it's called not getting married or having kids :laugh2:

but I do think spending 500$+ on (at this point) a blu-ray player is pointless. When some actual games come out for it, then it _might_ be worth 400$.... I really stress might because consoles are so over priced now for the very few good games that come out on them. I can look at the PS3 catalog and there is one game out right now that I would buy (hot shots 5). And only 2 coming out in the next year that I want (GT5 and FFXIII)... really doesn't make a person want to buy one.

Of course the 360 isn't much better, it has 3 games out that I would want (Forza II, Blue Dragon, and one other RPG I saw coming out soon).

It seems like with the PS3 and 360, if you don't play sports games or FPS there isn't much out right now.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2007, 07:25:22 pm »
They next format isn't going to explode in popularity like the DVD did (that's a once in a lifetime thing -- you'll probably never see something like that again), but one of the next formats will certainly survive and slowly replace DVD.

Wow!  I'm only 39 years old and I have already lived a once in a lifetime experience TWICE!  VHS and DVD ;D

DVD players a are the fastest-selling consumer electronic in history.  VHS did not explode in popularity like the DVD.  No new technology has EVER been adopted as quickly and ubiquitously as the DVD.  Not VHS, not TV, not CD, not even radios.

Really?  I remember having to lay down $300 or $500 security deposits to start a rental membership when VHS was King.  Movie rentals were 24hr. and you had to get on waiting lists all the time.  VHS established the consumer base, and DVD stands on it's shoulders proudly.  They are now after 20+ years finally phasing it out of circulation.  Maybe it didn"t explode as fast, but DVD will likely not match it's longevity in the marketplace.

But what I think made the VHS more of a once in a lifetime over DVD is that before VHS, if you did not go see the movie at the theaters you were likely to never see it.  If you were able to watch it on TV it was years later, it was probably dated material by then and it was definitely edited to death.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 07:38:45 pm by geomartin »
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2007, 07:29:31 pm »
I'm a big movie guy, and a bit of a videophile, and I'm holding off on upgrading to HD-DVD / Bluray until 2 things happen.  

1) prices on the players settle down.  Anyone remember when DVD players first came out?  they were VERY expensive, ala the current HD disc formats.  Same deal with SACD vs DVD-A.  Until prices settle down to the point where the choice between a HD disc player vs a decent dvd player is essentially a non-issue (ie +/- $50) the common consumer won't be buying.

2) either a winner or unified winner emerges, or the dual format players become the norm.  

I was an early adopter of HD programming and of the DVD format (after being wise enough to NOT get burned on the laserdisc format) but will sit the fence until things work themselves out.  I do see the quality difference between a well mastered HD title vs a well mastered DVD title, and I think given enough time, one of the 2 new formats will quietly take over for DVD, but I don't see it as the wave of adoption you saw with DVD over VHS.  

I disagree however with the contention of some that the difference between HDDVD/Blueray vs DVD isn't that noticeable.  Considering the facts: 30% adoption of HD sets, that leaves the rest of the viewing public watching DVD's on SD sets.  the jump to 1080p from 480i is a HUGE quality improvement.

The other 2 technical adoption issues for me are:

- distribution of HDMI/HDCP - I currently distrubute video content throughout my house in component video format.  there is not as of right now any way to reliably distribute HDMI to multiple display locations over longer distances.

- hard drive based storage and playback of HD titles - the mechanism to rip and playback Bluray and HDDVD is more complicated than for DVD's, and the storage requirements are MUCH higher.  I almost never watch a DVD that hasn't been ripped and added to my movie system.  


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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2007, 07:47:06 pm »
It's a bit of a stretch to say Video Gamers are going to decide a format war.

Looking back through history formats and their battles. It's hard to say what will ensure the survival and dominance of either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. In each "battle" the decisive dominance was always a little different. In one, it was generally dependibility. In another, dependibility went out the window. In one, it was quality, in another quality wasn't even considered.

Introduction dual players have been mentioned as an indicator, one that looks to be the ultimate outcome given the history of CD-+R and DVD-+R formats.

But no one mentioned children or porn films.

In the past, The male was the deciding purchaser of electronic toys. Whatever format the porn industry chooses is a pretty good deciding factor in what the final outcome of this will be. It's been noted that the porn industry shifted to using VHS over the competing Beta format long before the outcome of either was decided.

Tech savy children have greater purchasing power (through mom and dad) than at any time in the past. Whatever standardized movie format they're watching will likely be a good indicator of the direction of the market, if not the lead on the market.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2007, 12:38:38 am »
Given what's been available in the high-def porn arena, I don't think that's going to be a huge deciding factor this time. Porn doesn't belong in high-def unless you want to stare at ass zits.

Just another reason I think that even with HDTVs (slowly) entering the mainstream, neither of these formats is likely to be successful for a while, if at all.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2007, 11:00:18 am »
I am still playing movies on my beta player!  >:D

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2007, 01:04:55 pm »
This is an interesting discussion, but I'm definitely thinking that neither format will win and we will continue to have DVD's for quite a while. 

My take on the switch from VHS to DVD was that most people switched because of three reasons: 

1.  No need to rewind and instant scene selection.

2.  Movies in original (widescreen) format.

3.  DVD extras (for example, the option to have subtitles, a different language or commentary)

Call me crazy, but only tech-heads such as you guys who already have or dream of going HD really cares about the super-sharp picture and crystal clear audio that is available on the new formats. 

My prediction is that HD video products will never sweep the market like VHS or DVD. 

*Edit* Just realized that Shmokes said something similar to this several posts up and I agree with his comment that people might replace their broken DVD players with whatever form of HD player that is cheaper and/or more widespread, since those players will play both HD and DVD.  I also had no idea that HD players could improve the playback of DVD's.  How does that work?   
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 01:19:02 pm by KenToad »

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2007, 01:10:50 pm »
This is an interesting discussion, but I'm definitely thinking that neither format will win and we will continue to have DVD's for quite a while. 

My take on the switch from VHS to DVD was that most people switched because of three reasons: 

1.  No need to rewind and instant scene selection.

2.  Movies in original (widescreen) format.

3.  DVD extras (for example, the option to have subtitles, a different language or commentary)

Call me crazy, but only tech-heads such as you guys who already have or dream of going HD really cares about the super-sharp picture and crystal clear audio that is available on the new formats. 

My prediction is that HD video products will never sweep the market like VHS or DVD. 

i agree.  the jump from vhs to dvd didnt just provide better picture, but a slew of other features.  and also, i think a big difference in the two generations is that when i bought my first dvd and dvd player, i could hook it up to my current tv and see a HUGE difference in picture quality.  contrast that with standard dvd vs. high def dvd....you really need to get a tv thats going to take full advantage of the technology, plus you need to buy the cables for it and stuff. 

this has turned into a format war discussion, but just on the game console front....i buy my game systems to play games, not to double as an all in one.  thats just one mans opinion though.

oh and i have a 360 and a wii btw.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2007, 01:30:33 pm »
One thing to consider re: the move from VHS to DVD was the different licensing costs to rental stores like blockbuster etc for the different media.  For VHS movies, rental stores had to buy rental copies of VHS movies that included a HUGE licensing/revenue sharing built into the cost of the tape.  If a movie retailed for $20, the rental copy could cost as much as $75.  When DVD's started to hit the rental markets, there wasn't this built in revenue sharing model, so rental stores were able to rent retail copies at a significantly lower cost to stock the shelves.

It was almost overnight that the blockbuster video stores in the seattle area went from only having a few DVD's to having almoste entirely ALL DVD titles....

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2007, 04:29:47 pm »
This is an interesting discussion, but I'm definitely thinking that neither format will win and we will continue to have DVD's for quite a while. 

My take on the switch from VHS to DVD was that most people switched because of three reasons: 

1.  No need to rewind and instant scene selection.

2.  Movies in original (widescreen) format.

3.  DVD extras (for example, the option to have subtitles, a different language or commentary)

Call me crazy, but only tech-heads such as you guys who already have or dream of going HD really cares about the super-sharp picture and crystal clear audio that is available on the new formats. 

My prediction is that HD video products will never sweep the market like VHS or DVD. 

*Edit* Just realized that Shmokes said something similar to this several posts up and I agree with his comment that people might replace their broken DVD players with whatever form of HD player that is cheaper and/or more widespread, since those players will play both HD and DVD.  I also had no idea that HD players could improve the playback of DVD's.  How does that work?   

This is what I was talking about when I said that the winner of this war is likely to be the next Laserdisc and not the next dvd. Looking at my collection only about 1/3 at most is worth replacing for hi-def. Superior technology doesn't always equal mass appeal.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2007, 04:53:03 pm »
This is what I was talking about when I said that the winner of this war is likely to be the next Laserdisc and not the next dvd. Looking at my collection only about 1/3 at most is worth replacing for hi-def. Superior technology doesn't always equal mass appeal.

I think that between digital distribution and the growing popularity of mail order rentals, having the big investment in a DVD collection isn't going to be a big factor.  Getting a high def player doesn't suddenly make your DVD collection obsolete.  You can still watch the same movies and usually with a quality improvement on an upscaled player.  And as easy as it is to rent HD movies now, a big investment in media isn't necessary.

Would you believe that about two years ago, my DVD collection doubled when I bought 2 movies at the same time?  I think I'm up to about 12 now.  I doubt I'll ever own an HD movie, but I'll watch tons of them before the format disappears.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2007, 05:50:32 pm »
I think that between digital distribution and the growing popularity of mail order rentals, having the big investment in a DVD collection isn't going to be a big factor.  Getting a high def player doesn't suddenly make your DVD collection obsolete.  You can still watch the same movies and usually with a quality improvement on an upscaled player.  And as easy as it is to rent HD movies now, a big investment in media isn't necessary.

Would you believe that about two years ago, my DVD collection doubled when I bought 2 movies at the same time?  I think I'm up to about 12 now.  I doubt I'll ever own an HD movie, but I'll watch tons of them before the format disappears.

The fact that I'd be keeping my DVDs is one of the main reasons I won't be getting an HD player any time soon. I don't want to make a big investment in new hardware to watch the same discs I'm already watching on my sub $100 upconverting dvd player. I'm waiting for prices to drop before I upgrade to an hd format. I don't know if prices are going to drop that much if without mass adoption of the format.

I own a lot of dvds. I usually watch 3-4 movies a day while I'm working. Unless I'm willing to pay more for a dual format disc, I wouldn't be able to watch anything I bought in a new format while I'm working.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2007, 06:10:57 pm »
I usually watch 3-4 movies a day while I'm working.
Security guard?  I remember the short time I was a security guard I went through a lot of movies and books during the graveyard shifts.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2007, 06:16:55 pm »
Security guard?  I remember the short time I was a security guard I went through a lot of movies and books during the graveyard shifts.

No, I color comic books. I work from home and I'm locked in my office most of the day.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2007, 06:26:54 pm »
Security guard?  I remember the short time I was a security guard I went through a lot of movies and books during the graveyard shifts.

No, I color comic books. I work from home and I'm locked in my office most of the day.

What books?  Just wondering if I know the titles or not.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2007, 06:37:57 pm »
What books?  Just wondering if I know the titles or not.

Right now I'm coloring The Boys, Authority: Prime and the occasional Clone Wars Adventures story. Last month I also colored Wetworks and friday the 13th. I've colored lots of other stuff in the past.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2007, 07:42:57 pm »
I usually watch 3-4 movies a day while I'm working.
Security guard?  I remember the short time I was a security guard I went through a lot of movies and books during the graveyard shifts.

I used to do that too (always worked third shift), but then one of the dumbass secretaries whose desk I used at night set the computer's DVD software to play movies rated as high as PG.  :angry:

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2007, 11:40:58 pm »
I think that between digital distribution and the growing popularity of mail order rentals, having the big investment in a DVD collection isn't going to be a big factor.  Getting a high def player doesn't suddenly make your DVD collection obsolete.  You can still watch the same movies and usually with a quality improvement on an upscaled player.  And as easy as it is to rent HD movies now, a big investment in media isn't necessary.

I agree.  I've had the PS3 since November.  I've only bought 1 Blu-Ray movie (Black Hawk Down), but I've watched dozens via netflix, so it's definitely getting it's use.    Before Netflix I was a collector (I have probably 50 dvd's that I just never watched more than a couple of times).  I won't be doing the same with Blu-Ray, but I will be getting my favorites as they're available.  Off the top of my head:

Sin City
Kill Bill 1 and 2
Deadwood Series
Rome Series

Quote
Only 30% or so of American homes have an HDTV, Blu-Ray is useless for the other 70 or so percent.
If that is the case, then the same can be said for the next-gen consoles in general, since if you don't have an HDTV there isn't much value in upgrading to a PS3 or 360 at the moment

Quote
Schmokes figures aren't really valid.  The problem is nothing good has been released on either format yet.  The watchable movies (note I didn't say they were good) are only on blueray.  Why?  Because they are sony pictures movies.  The thing is nobody has really adopted either format.  How can I tell?  Simple.. there aren't any budget titles in either format yet.  There isn't a 1.99 blue ray crap box at your local walmart. These things started popping up for dvds when they finally replaced vhs as the standard.
 
You mean the BRAND NEW FORMAT isn't selling for 1.99 yet?  Shocking.  The changes you're referring to happened as few as 3 years ago....yet the format was a decided success well before then.   The HD transition is right on pace with the trends we saw when DVD was first introduced.     

Quote
My best guess is that if there is a winner at all, it'll be hd-dvd... the players and discs are cheaper and easier to manufacturer. 

That is a really BAD guess as it ignores all current trends and information.  Basically your looking into a magic 8 ball asking it which will win instead of examing the actual data that is out there. 

Blu-ray has better studio and manufacturing support (as of now, only one studio is exclusively HD-DVD), and a jump on penetration despite the earlier and cheaper release of HD-DVD.   Blu-Ray disk sales have outpaced HD-DVD since February.  Blockbuster announcement was pretty much a nail in the coffin...as I've said before, this war is over...all that's left is bayoneting the wounded.

If you're saying there is a "possibility" that HD-DVD could still come out on top, I'd disagree but at least see your point.  But to predict they're going to win would be like predicting your football team can overcome a 4 TD deficit in the 4th quarter.  Is it possible?  Of course.  Likely?  Not really.

Quote
when you take game consoles out of the equation (which you should) it's 150,000 hd-dvd and around 105,000 blueray.
Why on earth should you arbitrarily take consoles out of the equation?  The PS3 launch has had a definite impact on Blu-Ray disk sales, and is the reason Blockbuster made it's decision.  Blu-Ray is clearly winning and that is due in large part to the PS3, so to take it out of the equation would make no sense.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2007, 02:31:50 am »

 if you don't have an HDTV there isn't much value in upgrading to a PS3 or 360 at the moment



You still can enjoy next gen graphics without HD TV's.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2007, 09:10:24 am »
yeah and you can enjoy pacman and donkey kong with an X-Arcade joystick sitting on your couch....but you would be missing out on the experience of having your own cab with custom controls. 

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2007, 09:44:02 am »

 if you don't have an HDTV there isn't much value in upgrading to a PS3 or 360 at the moment



You still can enjoy next gen graphics without HD TV's.

If the resolution isn't there, it's not there...you can't fake it.  Most people wouldn't notice much difference between Madden 08 on a small SD TV versus Madden 05 on that same SD TV, other than gameplay.     

If I didn't have an HD TV, I wouldn't be upgrading to either of the next gen systems at this point.  I just started playing through some of my old xbox games again and they still look pretty damn good even after I now have a next-gen system to compare them too. 

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2007, 10:25:33 am »
Back to the topic, don't have 360 or PS3.  Waiting for the games to utilize at least 1/4 of the systems potential.  Gonna stick with my ps2, xbox, and wii.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2007, 12:05:56 pm »
Back to the topic, don't have 360 or PS3.  Waiting for the games to utilize at least 1/4 of the systems potential.  Gonna stick with my ps2, xbox, and wii.

One word:  Bioshock!

Not sure If it's my cup of tea.  But DAMN the demo is incredible!

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2007, 12:37:54 pm »
Quote
when you take game consoles out of the equation (which you should) it's 150,000 hd-dvd and around 105,000 blueray.
Why on earth should you arbitrarily take consoles out of the equation?  The PS3 launch has had a definite impact on Blu-Ray disk sales, and is the reason Blockbuster made it's decision.  Blu-Ray is clearly winning and that is due in large part to the PS3, so to take it out of the equation would make no sense.

Because, historically, console format has had very little or no impact on a particular media format. CD's did not become successful because everyone started playing music CD's on their Turbo Duo's and SEGA CD's. A there's no debate about how UMD's are a dismal failure despite Sony's push to have it accepted amongst the masses.

Not that I agree with anyone taking PS3's and 360's out of the "equation". For the first time since the Neo Geo, a console was introduced with a price point above what your average under 18 crowd (meaning the parents of those kids) is able or willing to spend. And for the first time ever, you have a large 25 to 35 age bracket with the disposable incomes, and personal gaming history, willing to justify the purchase of something like the PS3.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2007, 03:45:26 pm »
Back to the topic, don't have 360 or PS3.  Waiting for the games to utilize at least 1/4 of the systems potential.  Gonna stick with my ps2, xbox, and wii.

One word:  Bioshock!

Not sure If it's my cup of tea.  But DAMN the demo is incredible!

Damn that looks really sweet.  Now I just have to wait till I can be sure and get a 65nm chip with HDMI.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2007, 04:20:37 pm »
Of course game consoles didn't influence the adoption of the CD.  Who in god's name would want to listen to their music through their TV speakers?  It was a terrible format for music CDs (and few people back then had their game consoles hooked up to a stereo receiver).  The PS2, on the other hand, had a significant impact on DVD sales, especially in Japan.

Also, there are significant visual benefits to be had from the newer systems without an HD TV.  The only thing the HD TV gives you is higher resolution, which is important, of course, but everything else, from polygon counts (also enabling more characters, etc., on-screen simultaneously without pop-in or slowdown) to radically improved physics models, to larger, more interactive world, etc., etc., etc., are all perfectly enjoyable on a standard res TV. 
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2007, 04:24:24 pm »
Back to the topic, don't have 360 or PS3.  Waiting for the games to utilize at least 1/4 of the systems potential.  Gonna stick with my ps2, xbox, and wii.

One word:  Bioshock!

Not sure If it's my cup of tea.  But DAMN the demo is incredible!

Damn that looks really sweet.  Now I just have to wait till I can be sure and get a 65nm chip with HDMI.
Or buy the computer version  ;D  I prefer mouse/keyboard controls on FPS games anyways.

Bioshock does looks amazing on whichever platform you get it on, especially the water effects.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2007, 06:31:37 pm »
I like GT HD demo more than Forza 2, that game was a let down :(.
Just curious, what didn't you like?  I've played the GT series on the PS2.  I think Forza is superior to them.  What about GT HD is better?  I don't think GT HD has damage yet?  Until it does Forza, in my book, will always be better.  It makes you drive like a real driver.  To me Forza seems more akin to SCCA racing than general street cars on a race track which I love.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2007, 08:00:59 pm »
Of course game consoles didn't influence the adoption of the CD.  Who in god's name would want to listen to their music through their TV speakers?  It was a terrible format for music CDs (and few people back then had their game consoles hooked up to a stereo receiver).

Didn't stop companies like SEGA from including an audio dashboard. It wasn't just an issue of including it just because, SEGA really tried with various offerings like the VCD, CDX, Aiwa and that goofy karaoke unit. Whether it was all influenced with the popularity of the CD or an attempt to influence the popularity of certain CD formats is probably debatable.

Quote
The PS2, on the other hand, had a significant impact on DVD sales, especially in Japan.

That isn't saying much in a country that happily consumes all sorts of electronics. Here in the U.S., I don't see the PS2 as a big influence on DVD adoption. I've met all sorts of people who own a PS2 but don't use the PS2 as their exclusive player. Just wasn't happening. I'll happily take that comment back if you show me some U.S. sales numbers showing a relation between an increase in DVD sales and the introduction of the PS2.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2007, 08:48:06 pm »
The inclusion of DVD capabilities with the PS2 was more a selling point for the PS2, not the other way around. DVD was already well on its way to becoming the standard when the PS2 debuted.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2007, 09:18:51 pm »

That isn't saying much in a country that happily consumes all sorts of electronics. Here in the U.S., I don't see the PS2 as a big influence on DVD adoption. I've met all sorts of people who own a PS2 but don't use the PS2 as their exclusive player. Just wasn't happening. I'll happily take that comment back if you show me some U.S. sales numbers showing a relation between an increase in DVD sales and the introduction of the PS2.

No, I would tend to agree with that.  However, I could see the PS3 affecting this particular go-around because it differs in a couple ways from DVD.  First, DVD had no technological competitor.  There was no format war, so it was a matter of either being adopted, or not adopted, but there was no possibility of it being overlooked in favor of another competing technology.  Second, the DVD, as you mentioned, was already well on its way to acceptance in the U.S. with or without the PS2.  In this case, the PS3 was nearly the first BluRay player on the market, and certainly the most affordable.  Sales of PS3s actually make up a VERY significant portion of total BluRay player sales.  People who own PS3s do seem to be making heavy use of it as their only high definition movie player, which was not the case with the PS2 in the U.S. 

The early trends favoring BluRay are almost certainly caused in large part to PS3 sales, but the thing about these types of trends is that they can easily have a domino/ballooning effect.  Studios want to make money, and they're going to base the releases on movies on potential sales.  Currently BluRay presents the highest potential for sales, so it makes sense for companies to give it more attention, but that, in turn, only makes the format that much more attractive to consumers and they begin favoring the format even more, which in turn makes the studios favor it even more, etc., etc. 

If the PS3 is responsible for an early, even undeserved lead with BluRay, and having an early lead is responsible for a domino effect that ultimately leads to the war being called in BluRay's favor, then PS3 absolutely would have influenced the outcome of the war.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2007, 11:11:51 pm »
shmokes, only 40% of PS3 owners are even aware that their machine is capable of Blu-Ray playback and of that number, only 50% used the feature recently. Couple that with the low install base for the PS3, and it's not exactly gangbusters. Yeah, it's beating out HD-DVD, but at this point, it's like winning in the Special Olympics.

Also, the new high-def formats really aren't seen as the massive jump from VHS to DVD. Even videophiles (like myself) either don't see the benefit in the costs right now or fear investing in either format until there is a clear winner (if there even is one).

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2007, 02:58:08 am »
The funny thing is,despite there not being the same perceived 'jump' in quality as from vhs to dvd, the actual quality increase from 480p (dvd) to 1080p (hddvd/bluray) is MUCH greater than vhs (~480i) to dvd.  I'll admit, the non video quality stuff (no rewind, special features,etc) were a big jump, but true videophiles see the quality increase in video quality.......but until the players and titles are comparable in price to dvd, its a no deal for the general public.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2007, 08:49:35 am »
It's because, really, the DVD's picture was improved vastly over VHS, not just because it got a resolution bump, but because it went from a rapidly degrading analog tape, to a crystal-clear digital picture that never degrades (though the disc itself can wear-out or be damaged, of course, but as long as it works it gives you the same, perfect picture five years after the day you bought it).
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2007, 09:27:21 am »
Back to the topic, don't have 360 or PS3.  Waiting for the games to utilize at least 1/4 of the systems potential.  Gonna stick with my ps2, xbox, and wii.

One word:  Bioshock!

Not sure If it's my cup of tea.  But DAMN the demo is incredible!

Damn that looks really sweet.  Now I just have to wait till I can be sure and get a 65nm chip with HDMI.
Or buy the computer version  ;D  I prefer mouse/keyboard controls on FPS games anyways.

Bioshock does looks amazing on whichever platform you get it on, especially the water effects.

Unless I want to relocate my pc to my living room, that won't work.  Why play on a 20" CRT when I can use my 50" plasma.  I have never been a fan of mouse keyboard controls pretty much after doom.  I like my computer to do computer stuff and my gaming stuff to do there thing.  Why else would I have built an entire arcade cabinet to play a few emulators that would have already run on my computer?

Anyways, the graphics on Bioshock are still not utilizing as many cpu's as the 360 offers.  Just wait till Bioshock 2.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2007, 10:41:26 am »
Back to the topic, don't have 360 or PS3.  Waiting for the games to utilize at least 1/4 of the systems potential.  Gonna stick with my ps2, xbox, and wii.

One word:  Bioshock!

Not sure If it's my cup of tea.  But DAMN the demo is incredible!

Damn that looks really sweet.  Now I just have to wait till I can be sure and get a 65nm chip with HDMI.
Or buy the computer version  ;D  I prefer mouse/keyboard controls on FPS games anyways.

Bioshock does looks amazing on whichever platform you get it on, especially the water effects.

Unless I want to relocate my pc to my living room, that won't work.  Why play on a 20" CRT when I can use my 50" plasma.  I have never been a fan of mouse keyboard controls pretty much after doom.  I like my computer to do computer stuff and my gaming stuff to do there thing.  Why else would I have built an entire arcade cabinet to play a few emulators that would have already run on my computer?

Anyways, the graphics on Bioshock are still not utilizing as many cpu's as the 360 offers.  Just wait till Bioshock 2.
Heh, okay.  I consider my computer to be a gaming machine and prefer the more accurate (superior) controls, but to each their own.  Thats why they release it on different platforms, different strokes for different folks.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2007, 11:21:00 am »
Yeah i agree, the PC is the real machine... the machine where you can upgrade your hardware and have a better looking game depending on that hardware is where it's at.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2007, 12:06:12 pm »
Yeah i agree, the PC is the real machine... the machine where you can upgrade your hardware and have a better looking game depending on that hardware is where it's at.
Agreed, console hardware get outdated fairly quickly and PC's can always be upgraded to have the best graphics, but I wasn't intending this thread to become a pc vs console debate.  Both platforms have their advantages and disadvantages, so lets just leave it at that.  Green Giant pointed out that he wanted to play the game, but wanted to wait until the next version of the 360 came out (the 65nm chip one), so I was just pointing out he didn't have to wait and could play it on his PC.  Of course we've since learned he prefers to play on games on his consoles, which is fine.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2007, 01:35:49 pm »
Quote
I'll happily take that comment back if you show me some U.S. sales numbers showing a relation between an increase in DVD sales and the introduction of the PS2.

well we can show you U.S. Sales numbers showing a relation between an increase in Blu-ray disk sales and the introduction of the PS3, which is the point of the whole discussion

To recap
- Blu-ray sales have outpaced HD-DVD sales since Feb (when the PS3 started becoming readily available.)  This despite the fact that HD-DVD players are much cheaper
- If Howard's article is accurate, 93% of Blu-Ray players out there are PS3.   Coupled with the fact that Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD disks that seems to indicate that PS3 had a HUGE impact on the format at this point
- Because of that support, the US's largest rental chain (that holds some 40% rental revenue) is not even putting HD-DVD disks on it's shelves!  That is huge.   When Joe Sixpack goes to upgrade his system, is he going to buy a standalone player that he can't even rent disks from at his local blockbuster? 

So yes, the PS3 has had a HUGE impact on the Blu-Ray format and is the reason they are winning (won) the war. 

Now they just need to catch up with the 360 in the games department  :)

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2007, 02:27:08 pm »
bbodin, I (think) understand the point of the discussion. I was trying to explain another point and shmokes had a suitable counterpoint. Your post just cites numbers with no source. A source is what I was trying to get so someone can support a position one way or the other.

To be fair, I hate Blu-Ray more than any other format. Even more than the idea of Microsoft being a monopoly (I know it's not, that's not the point). Reading the white sheets on the format just raises my hackles. I have zero desire to see this format or any other similar format ever succeed in the consumer market. Absolutely no one should hold this much control over our heads as consumers, yet consumers happily gobble this ---Cleveland steamer--- up like dumb little sheep. I'm not thrilled with HD-DVD either, but it's a far more pallatable format for me than Blu-Ray. I haven't had these kinds of feelings for a particular format since DIVX.

Blu-Ray is the single most reason I refuse to purchase a PS3. Sony has screwed consumers over way too many times for me to continue actively supporting the company. All of the pawn shops around here have at least 3 PS3's on their shelves at any one time so I'm thinking I'll be getting mine 2nd hand.

That clarified, I made an effort to go out and actually find some kind of source to cite who is currently in the lead and not dependend on sales numbers by the major companies (which are skewed anyways). I found one. This guy culls sales data from Amazon. It's just Amazon sales data and doesn't actually reflect sales or rentals at brick and mortar stores but it gives a view into the topic.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 02:30:09 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2007, 03:02:26 pm »
thanks for that link, I didnt know the Big Lebowski was on HD DVD *adds that to list*.


Back to the topic, the format war isn't over because they are still producing both HD DVDs and BluRays. I'm not sitting back and waiting for a winner, I'm actively supporting the format I'd like to see win, which is HD DVD. I currently have about 20 HD DVDs in addition to nearly 500 DVDs, what can I say, I like movies.  One thing Ive learned from this thread is that with a collection like this, I should get a part time job as a security guard.

Back to the actual topic, I don't have a PS3 and theres nothing motivating me to get one. I don't know what all is out on PS3 but I know I play the crap out of Forza II, Overlord, Guitar Hero II, and NHL 07
http://profile.mygamercard.net/LLiNRAC   that has a list of like the 50 most recent Ive played, I actually have like 60 XBOX360 games.... because I'm supporting the console I want to win =)


pot shot1: Gran Turismo always looks great, but the fact you can ride the wall around turns at 100mph and the fact the AI is clinically retarded really kill the fun factor. I've heard they are over hauling the graphics engine, no word yet AI or damage models.

If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2007, 04:46:48 pm »
pot shot1: Gran Turismo always looks great, but the fact you can ride the wall around turns at 100mph and the fact the AI is clinically retarded really kill the fun factor. I've heard they are over hauling the graphics engine, no word yet AI or damage models./quote]

Everyone keeps complaining about the damage modeling in GT or lack of it.

It's something that goes way back when the original GT was developed. In order to license many of the real world cars featured in the game, the car manufacturers contracts state the licensed cars are not to be mutilated (ie body damage). In short, it's not likely any future versions of GT will feature body damage as long as the licensing agreements forbid the developers.

As for the A.I.  :dunno

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2007, 11:18:20 pm »
Everyone keeps complaining about the damage modeling in GT or lack of it.

It's something that goes way back when the original GT was developed. In order to license many of the real world cars featured in the game, the car manufacturers contracts state the licensed cars are not to be mutilated (ie body damage). In short, it's not likely any future versions of GT will feature body damage as long as the licensing agreements forbid the developers.

As for the A.I.  :dunno

How can that apply today? Forza licenses many of the car found in GT , but in Forza they can be damaged.  I don't think any manufacturer  cares about damage models now a days , I can ram an Enzo Ferrari  head on into a McLaren GT 1 in Forza II and watch the gibs go flying. Using that excuse for GT is a cop out. Why can you ride the wall in countless turns in GT1 2 3 and 4 without even slowing down  or if you park in the racing line and just sit there the CPU will run into you like you arent there, least in forza they adjust their line round you.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2007, 11:27:31 pm »
GT is more realistic.  Racecar drivers are hardcore.  They would ram you on principle.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2007, 11:32:06 pm »
GT is more realistic.  Racecar drivers are hardcore.  They would ram you on principle.

You're thinking of NASCAR.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2007, 12:46:45 pm »
How can that apply today? Forza licenses many of the car found in GT , but in Forza they can be damaged. <snip> Using that excuse for GT is a cop out.

How the ---fudgesicle--- should I know? I remember reading a developers interview in one of the gaming magazines (EGM or PSM or some such) I subscribed to at the time. What I remember was the developer citing licensing issues regarding the damage models and how future GT"s were likely never going to include damage models. With Forza, it might even be as something as simple as Forza acquiring (i.e. paying lots of $$$$) better licenses than GT did. Instead of asking a forum why GT is one way and Forza is another, get off your butt and ask a developer yourself.

Quote
Why can you ride the wall in countless turns in GT1 2 3 and 4 without even slowing down  or if you park in the racing line and just sit there the CPU will run into you like you arent there, least in forza they adjust their line round you.

I only explained the damage model. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why A.I. would suck. Again, go ask one of the developers of GT yourself if you're boning to know the answer.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 12:48:26 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2007, 02:10:57 pm »
How the ---fudgesicle--- should I know? I remember reading a developers interview in one of the gaming magazines (EGM or PSM or some such) I subscribed to at the time. What I remember was the developer citing licensing issues regarding the damage models and how future GT"s were likely never going to include damage models. With Forza, it might even be as something as simple as Forza acquiring (i.e. paying lots of $$$$) better licenses than GT did. Instead of asking a forum why GT is one way and Forza is another, get off your butt and ask a developer yourself.

You were the one defending it, and it was true back in 1997 when GT1 was released, they renew the license every game so theres no reason to not have damage in GT3 or 4 other then programmer's laziness and hoping the consumers dont care.

I only explained the damage model. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why A.I. would suck. Again, go ask one of the developers of GT yourself if you're boning to know the answer.
I already know the answer, programmer laziness. It was more of a rhetorical question, and lastly, I finally got ---my bottom--- over to best buy and got the lebowski on HD DVD

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« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 02:16:01 pm by Malenko »
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2007, 02:19:03 pm »
and lastly, I finally got ---my bottom--- over to best buy and got the lebowski on HD DVD

Just curious, but are these older releases on HD real re-scans, or are they just upconverted copies? If they are just upconverted, wtf is the point?

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2007, 02:39:08 pm »
and lastly, I finally got ---my bottom--- over to best buy and got the lebowski on HD DVD

Just curious, but are these older releases on HD real re-scans, or are they just upconverted copies? If they are just upconverted, wtf is the point?


No they aren't just upconverted. That'd be ridiculous, as an HD-DVD/Blu-ray player will do that to your standard DVD's anyway.

Some of them are definitely better than others though, and none are really going to be competing with the quality of more modern big budget visual treats.






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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2007, 02:40:58 pm »
and lastly, I finally got ---my bottom--- over to best buy and got the lebowski on HD DVD

Just curious, but are these older releases on HD real re-scans, or are they just upconverted copies? If they are just upconverted, wtf is the point?


No they aren't just upconverted. That'd be ridiculous, as an HD-DVD/Blu-ray player will do that to your standard DVD's anyway.

Some of them are definitely better than others though, and none are really going to be competing with the quality of more modern big budget visual treats.

So the quality depends on the original source reels then right? The way it was explained to me is that they go back and scan the original film at HD resolutions.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2007, 04:40:49 pm »
To be fair, I hate Blu-Ray more than any other format. Even more than the idea of Microsoft being a monopoly (I know it's not, that's not the point). Reading the white sheets on the format just raises my hackles. I have zero desire to see this format or any other similar format ever succeed in the consumer market. Absolutely no one should hold this much control over our heads as consumers, yet consumers happily gobble this ---Cleveland steamer--- up like dumb little sheep. I'm not thrilled with HD-DVD either, but it's a far more pallatable format for me than Blu-Ray. I haven't had these kinds of feelings for a particular format since DIVX.

I would love to understand your reasoning behind this (other than with a "I hate Sony" slant).  I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that the HD-DVD format is actually better than the Blu-Ray format (plenty have predicted the HD-DVD would win, but I can't recall seeing anyone say it's actually a BETTER format, only that it's cheaper). 

Larger capacity,  better audio options, better video options, better scratch prevention, integrated Java....what exactly about HD-DVD surpasses that from a features standpoint?

I guess my desire for better capabilities makes me one of those dumb little sheep  ???
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 04:42:31 pm by bbodin »

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2007, 05:08:34 pm »
I would love to understand your reasoning behind this (other than with a "I hate Sony" slant).  I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that the HD-DVD format is actually better than the Blu-Ray format (plenty have predicted the HD-DVD would win, but I can't recall seeing anyone say it's actually a BETTER format, only that it's cheaper). 

Larger capacity,  better audio options, better video options, better scratch prevention, integrated Java....what exactly about HD-DVD surpasses that from a features standpoint?

I guess my desire for better capabilities makes me one of those dumb little sheep  ???

They use practically the same codec so Im not sure how audio/video options are better. I'm unaware of any added "scratch prevention" measure, if anything the smaller read area of the blue laser means even minimal scratching has a greater chance to have an adverse effect on the disc. There is more data area on a BluRay but Ive heard of a dual layer HD DVD in the works that will narrow that gap, though in all honest you shouldnt need 40GBs of storage for a movie.

how exactly is integrated java a good thing?

Anyways I'll admit Im biased because I have a HD DVD drive for my 360. Its sad that the PS3 is the cheapest BluRay player, but Im not gonna buy a PS3 and boost sony's numbers for a game system Im not going to play. I will admit there are alot of movies that are only on BluRay that I'd love to have, but I'll wait till they come out on HD DVD because Im sure eventually BluRay will become the next UMD format
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2007, 05:45:52 pm »
though in all honest you shouldnt need 40GBs of storage for a movie.

How are you gonna get 20 hours of extra content on a 3 hour movie in high def without 40GB of storage.

Think on the bright side, when the scene for illegal copies of bluray really kicks off, you can get every episode of Seinfeld on a single disc, or every episode of Star Trek for you scifi nerds on here.
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2007, 06:37:33 pm »
They use practically the same codec so Im not sure how audio/video options are better.
higher data rates (50mbps for BD v. 31mbps for HD DVD.)  Also larger size = less compression, uncompressed PCM audio, etc.

I'm unaware of any added "scratch prevention" measure, if anything the smaller read area of the blue laser means even minimal scratching has a greater chance to have an adverse effect on the disc.
It has a special coating that people have used steel wool and screwdrivers on to no affect.   

There is more data area on a BluRay but Ive heard of a dual layer HD DVD in the works that will narrow that gap
There's already a 200GB Blu-ray in the works as well.  HD-DVD just can't compete capacity-wise

though in all honest you shouldnt need 40GBs of storage for a movie.
Oh, please.  And nobody will ever need more than 16kb or RAM (or whatever that quote was).  Think uncompressed audio, DTS, DD audio options.  Think less compressed video.  Think behind the scenes, making ofs, theatrical previews, differing angles all in HD....None of which would fit on a HD-DVD right now.  Check out a video review of CLICK for some examples of this.

how exactly is integrated java a good thing?
Layering of graphics/video, animated popup menus with uninterrupted playback, internet connectivity (allowing updates after the disk is stamped and sold), access to movie related websites directly from your disk, latest movie previews versus a "snapshot in time" of when the disk was pressed, push of content to cellphones and pda's, the options are endless.

Quote
I will admit there are alot of movies that are only on BluRay that I'd love to have, but I'll wait till they come out on HD DVD because Im sure eventually BluRay will become the next UMD format
LOL


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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2007, 07:08:56 pm »
They both have pros and cons.  HD DVD pros are it is cheaper to produce and the same laser is backwards compatible with DVD9.  So movies, like 300, can have both HD DVD and DVD9 on the same disc. 

However, more people are supporting Bluray.  Though Paramount and Dreamworks have recently went HD DVD.

It's too early to declare a winner.  Bluray is leading but until HD movies are mainstream we won't know.  I've seen 300 in HD (downloaded off of XLVM) and DVD9, while there was more detail in HD there was no compelling reason to not get the DVD9.  Same story, still looks great, etc...  In order to really see the difference you need a huge screen.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2007, 07:56:10 pm »
On my 42" HD plasma, the difference in PQ between a well mastered DVD9 and an HD title is very slim.  On my 720p projector (not even 1080p) the difference is quite noticeable.

I'm still on the fence, and will be for a while, regarding choosing an HD disc format.


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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2007, 10:12:15 pm »
So the quality depends on the original source reels then right? The way it was explained to me is that they go back and scan the original film at HD resolutions.


Exactly.



[EDIT]

Removed old news. Apparently I hadn't refreshed this thread recently. :)

« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 10:18:27 pm by versapak »

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2007, 11:02:32 pm »
They both have pros and cons. 

I guess that's where I disagree.  Compared to HD-DVD, Blu-Ray has 1 con....price.  Compared to Blu-Ray, HD-DVD has one pro...price.

Search on any site that compares the 2 formats and that is the only positive thing they ever say about HD-DVD compared to Blu-Ray.  Seriously, do a search...I did a search on Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD and the first 10 or so relevent links I found the only positive they mention about HD-DVD is the cheaper production process. 

That's it.  That's the only beneficial thing it provides over the other format...  Bigger?  No.  Faster?  No?  More damage proof?  No?  Better picture?  No.  Better Audio?  No.  Better application support?  No.  Better Studio Support?  No.  Better manufacturer support?  No.   Cheaper?  Yes.

None of the above is generally debated even by those that support HD-DVD, so that's why I was a little shocked when the person posted as if HD-DVD is superior in some way.  When people argue against Blu-ray they generally fall into 2 camps
1) argue against the price
2) argue because it's Sony

I can certainly understand point #1...but I can't really see any other reason other than that, so that's why I asked for the original poster's clarification.  I suspect he's just in camp #2

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2007, 12:02:36 am »
Heh, you disagree yet you agree.  You reiterated what I said.  However, as I said, there are two pros for HD DVD.  Read those reviews, the pros I said are in them.  Basically, what I said sums up most of the reviews.  HD DVD is cheaper and backwards compatible.  Bluray has more space and more industry support.

Price doesn't make a difference if there isn't anything to watch.  Similar to why the PS3 isn't taking off as a game console.  There just aren't many games for it.

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2007, 12:58:17 am »
It will be somewhat interesting to see if there is even enough market acceptance / pressure to let EITHER format really get a foothold.  With the prevalence of streaming/downloadable video, and consumers focusing so much now on portable video formats, etc I'm curious to see if the HD-DVD / BluRay fight will turn out similar to SACD vs HD-DVD. 

In a market where more and more people were concerned about portability and mp3 compression is "good enough" neither high definition audio format has even come close to dethroning the CD as the most prevalent physical audio media.  Not to say that legitimate downloadable content may not soon overtake CD for the preferred method of audio distribution....

I don't really think the analogy stands up - considering HDTV is a reality with or without a physical disc media, but we'll see....

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #90 on: August 21, 2007, 10:25:36 am »
higher data rates (50mbps for BD v. 31mbps for HD DVD.)  Also larger size = less compression, uncompressed PCM audio, etc.
Honestly, is there that noticeable difference between 36.55 and 53.95 mbps (thats RAW data BTW, audio and video is more like HDDVD= 30.24 and BluRay= 48 an even slimmer margin) ? Ive seen BluRay 300 playing side by side with an HD DVD 300 and they looked identical. Its the only movie I've seen simultaneously on both formats at once, so  that is my basis for comparison.

It has a special coating that people have used steel wool and screwdrivers on to no affect.   
yeah ok I have read about the coating, and its neat to have I suppose, especially if your the kinda person who doesn't take care of your disc and thinks you clean the back with steel wool. But if the benefits are there, don't you think HD DVD will add a similar feature?  I have over 400 DVDs and like 30 HD DVDs and none of them have anything more then a few light surface scratches (My nephews aren't quite as anal as me) Also, the Durabis coating (developed by TDK) is not a standard feature on a BluRay disc


There's already a 200GB Blu-ray in the works as well.  HD-DVD just can't compete capacity-wise
I already admitted Blu Ray holds more data...so yeah I don't understand why you had to restate the obvious, but thanks! Also,

Quote from: the Wikipedia
Although the Blu-ray Disc specification has been finalized, engineers continue working to advance the technology. Quad-layer (100 GB) discs have been demonstrated on a drive with modified optics. Furthermore TDK announced in August 2006 that they have created a working experimental Blu-ray Disc capable of holding 200 GB of data on a single side, using six 33 GB data layers. Such discs would probably not work on today's players, as these devices are only designed and tested on discs that meet the current specification.

Oh, please.  And nobody will ever need more than 16kb or RAM (or whatever that quote was).  Think uncompressed audio, DTS, DD audio options.  Think less compressed video.  Think behind the scenes, making ofs, theatrical previews, differing angles all in HD....None of which would fit on a HD-DVD right now.  Check out a video review of CLICK for some examples of this.

I don't really know how to reply to this, the audio pumping out of my XBOX360 HD-DVD in glorious 5.1 surround sound is incredible. I don't think uncompressing that audio would add much to it, the way audio is compressed now isn't the same as when it was compressed when PCs had 16KB of RAM. Most of my DVDs and HD DVDs are packed with behind the scenes footage, making ofs, trailers,etc so I don't see the point there. Alternate angles is a gimmick that doesn't make sense, unless maybe its a pron you're watching and I admit that'd be pretty cool to see a matrix style money shot. Also, please don't bring up "Click", justifying gimmicks and features is one thing, but saying its worth it for that turd of a movie is a bit much....why would you possibly want to see MORE of "Click"  other then the fact Christopher Walken is in it?

Yeah its cool that BluRay has more space but whats the point of all that space if you're just going to fill it up with crap? If there is no audible difference then I don't see why slightly compressed audio is used, same goes for video. Maybe in the future when movies are filmed with much better cameras and mics and all that jazz the need for more space will arise but for now, TO ME, BluRay seems like a expensive excess.

Also, speaking of the 300.... man, did you look at the laundry list of special features the BluRay version had that the HD DVD version didnt?

Layering of graphics/video, animated popup menus with uninterrupted playback, internet connectivity (allowing updates after the disk is stamped and sold), access to movie related websites directly from your disk, latest movie previews versus a "snapshot in time" of when the disk was pressed, push of content to cellphones and pda's, the options are endless.
So how is integrated Java a good thing? Adding marketing ploys is your justification?  Ummm... if you need to pop in "Taxi Driver" into your BluRay Player to visit Sony.com then you have issues, same goes if you want to drop $40 on a movie so you can get a ring tone and wallpaper for your cellie. If I want to visit websites I'll get on my computer and do it. You sound like the AT&T guy trying to sell me an Iphone, I kept telling him "I have a PC that can do all that and more with a much larger screen" I cant honestly see the need to update a movie unless there was some sort of error in manufacturing.

Quote
LOL
rofflecopter, lollerskates...I guess

I never said HD was vastly superior nor have I attacked it all (well maybe a lil in this reply), I simply stated both formats are good but I prefer HD DVD and regular DVD over BluRay. It was Sony who refused to work with a consortium to release a single next gen format, so that is why I am not supporting BluRay. They had no problem supporting the DVD consortium but when their ideas weren't accepted they basically said "give me my ball back I'm going home"

Also, one HUGE thing that everyone seems to forget is there is NO REGION LOCKOUT on HD DVD, so I can import discs from anywhere and watch them.  I personally don't think 30 GB vs 50 GB is a huge difference for a format designed for movies, you don't need 30 GB (3.3HRs of HD) let alone 50 GB (8.5 HRs of HD).

As far as I can see BluRay has more space and costs more, HD DVD has less space, costs less, and doesnt have regional lock out. Anymore replies in this will prolly further flaming so I digress.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 07:38:29 am by Malenko »
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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #91 on: August 25, 2007, 10:18:14 pm »
Hi,

Does it really matter if Blockbuster goes one way or the other? All the rental stores near me (I'm in Ireland now) in the last year have dedicated at least most of their floor space to internet use and tanning booths: looks like rental business is really down.

It's only an assumption, but most people here have more money now, and in my case, I'd rather wait a few months and buy the DVD instead of renting it, and even then, I'd really want to see it to buy it.

To be fair, with the kids, I dont watch as many movies as in the past: by the time the kids go to bed, my wife watches her shows and I see mine, a couple of hours at night to watch a movie is a luxury we rarely have anymore!

We are usually a couple of years behind the States regarding technology, so hopefully by the time I need to buy a new player, you guys will have sorted the problem out for us over this side of the pond!  ;D

MfL

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Re: all right, who has a XBOX 360 & a PS3 ?
« Reply #92 on: August 25, 2007, 11:27:18 pm »
Yeah, the situation you describe is not typical of the U.S.  In fact, internet cafes basically do not exist here.  You can use the internet in the public library for free, or you can use the internet at home (provided you have a computer and pay for service), but there is really no market for internet cafes here.  Frankly, just about household over here has internet access.  Beyond that, the rental market seems very healthy here.  I don't have any objective data, but there are DVD rental stores everywhere in the U.S. and they seem as busy as ever.  We have a couple of rent-by-mail services here (Netflix and Blockbuster) and they are probably eating into the B&M rental business, but overall at least as many movies as ever are being rented I would imagine.
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