is Windows Media center worth it??

[hulkster]

i just got a new 50" tv, new dvd player, and im getting hd channels for the first time through the digital tuner on my tv....all for the first time...and its awesome!

however, as i talked about in the other thread here about me finally getting a tv....my tivo is analog and is kind of the bottleneck.  im looking at getting the new hd tivo maybe around christmas time, but i recently saw some screenshots of windows media center and have never really messed with it before. 

so i have a couple of questions.  one....does the new version of media center come WITH windows vista ultimate/home?  i thought it was a seperate OS? 

two...do i have to have a crazy powerful pc to run WMC?  im guessing ill have to have a video card with a tv tuner, but does that video card have to be really powerful as well?

[leapinlew]

The mo'power the mo'better. From a cost perspective, I think Tivo might be a better bargain. You get quite a bit more flexibility with Media Center.

I built a media center box 2 years ago with dual tuners. I spent around 2k for this box and if I had to do it again I would buy a DVR or rent one from my cable company.

[hulkster]

spent 2k on a wmc?!!?  what the heck are doing on that thing, streaming porn while recording 2 HD broadcasts?!!?  my high end gaming machine i built only cost me $1300. 

i would only be using a wmc for dvr and tv watching.  i have a 2.4ghz machine with a 128 mb video card and 1gb of ram spare at my house, so i would only be buying well....a new vid card with a tv tuner, and of course the OS....but wouldnt that run it?

[mcfreak]

I love my Vista Media Center, It has 3 tuners, one HD, two analogs connected to Digital Cable boxes.  The power it gives you over a tivo/Digital Cable DVR box is the "Other" stuff.  I have Xbox 360's in the bedrooms and media room that "extend" the interface to those areas. I can watch live TV on all three TV's using a central machine.  It will also extend HD to the other rooms which is the only device I am aware of that can do that. 

I also have a 1.5 Terabyte NAS in a server closet that has all my digital media (Movies, Music, TV Shows) that are shared across all TV's in the house.  There is a great add-on freeware program called My Movies:  http://www.mymoves.name that will automatically get all the cover art for your movies, titles, description, actors, etc and you can play them from the interface.  So instead of having to go find DVD 382 in my collection, I can rip it down, tie it to my movies, and watch it by pressing a few buttons on the remote. 

Here is an example of the interface:
http://www.mymovies.name/screenshots/windows-vista-media-center.aspx

Also, don't forget about the MAME interface for Media Center 

http://www.push-a-button.com.au/products/mce/vista/emucenter/index.php

[leapinlew]

spent 2k on a wmc?!!?  what the heck are doing on that thing, streaming porn while recording 2 HD broadcasts?!!?  my high end gaming machine i built only cost me $1300. 

i would only be using a wmc for dvr and tv watching.  i have a 2.4ghz machine with a 128 mb video card and 1gb of ram spare at my house, so i would only be buying well....a new vid card with a tv tuner, and of course the OS....but wouldnt that run it?

For starters, lets remember this was 2 years ago. WMC 2005 is picky for the hardware it allows, so I had to purchase their approved hardware. The analog tuners on the approved list were not cheap and I purchased 2 of them. Hard disk storage wasn't cheap either. Then I had to purchase all the peripherals - remote, wireless mouse, wireless keyboard, rechargeable batteries.

[ChadTower]

I think in his price range he needs a cable provider DVR or a Tivo.  Or XBMC.

[hulkster]

I love my Vista Media Center, It has 3 tuners, one HD, two analogs connected to Digital Cable boxes.  The power it gives you over a tivo/Digital Cable DVR box is the "Other" stuff.  I have Xbox 360's in the bedrooms and media room that "extend" the interface to those areas. I can watch live TV on all three TV's using a central machine.  It will also extend HD to the other rooms which is the only device I am aware of that can do that. 

I also have a 1.5 Terabyte NAS in a server closet that has all my digital media (Movies, Music, TV Shows) that are shared across all TV's in the house.  There is a great add-on freeware program called My Movies:  http://www.mymoves.name that will automatically get all the cover art for your movies, titles, description, actors, etc and you can play them from the interface.  So instead of having to go find DVD 382 in my collection, I can rip it down, tie it to my movies, and watch it by pressing a few buttons on the remote. 

Here is an example of the interface:
http://www.mymovies.name/screenshots/windows-vista-media-center.aspx

Also, don't forget about the MAME interface for Media Center 

http://www.push-a-button.com.au/products/mce/vista/emucenter/index.php

whoa dude!  thats awesome!  so you wait....you have one media center pc and you run that feed to all of your tvs in your house???  hows that possible without a pc at every tv?  are you like...hooking your wmc pc up at the initial cable feed coming into your house, and then just having all your tvs run off that?  i guess im confused as to how you can get all your tv's to display shared stuff.  or is that what you have the 360s for?  thats a crazy amount of hardware.  i only have 2 tv's and an office/gaming pc that i use.  if i could stream the wmc content to my other tv and to my pc in my office, that would sweet.  i have most of the hardware for the wmc pc cept for the tuner card (suggestions?).  but what else would i need? 

and again, is this even worth it?  i can either upgrade my tivo to an hd tivo for $299 + $199 transfer fee of lifetime subscription....or get a media center pc.  what do you think? 

[ChadTower]

When all said and done, the media center PC setup will have cost substantially more than that and taken a long time to get installed, set up, and tweaked properly.

The Tivo will take a phone call and an hour of install.

[hulkster]

When all said and done, the media center PC setup will have cost substantially more than that and taken a long time to get installed, set up, and tweaked properly.

The Tivo will take a phone call and an hour of install.

yes but i can only watch it on one tv.  and it would be nice to rip my movies and be able to watch them in any part of the house whether it be a pc, or tv.  if i wanted to watch recorded content from my tivo on another tv....i would have to buy ANOTHER tivo ($300) and since they did away with lifetime, id have to pay a monthly fee for subscription service. 

im not trying to defend something i know nothing about (wmc) im just trying to weigh all the options.  i want the ability to have hd broadcasts shown on my tivo, and be able to pause, record etc all at the same time.  to do that with tivo, i have to upgrade, and even then....its only for the one tv. 

so i need to know how you set it up to put all your content on all your tvs throughout your hosue mcfreak.  that will be the kicker on whether or not i keep looking at the wmc or a new tivo.

[ChadTower]

Then do the same thing with XBMC at $75 a pop rather than setting up a whole WCM infrastructure that will cost hundreds more.

[hulkster]

well what if i wanted to upgrade my hd space, or whatever?  im not a modder, and dont like soldering or anything.  what happens if the power supply or something blows in the xbox?  i have to go buy a new one.  if a power supply in my pc blows, i can send it back to the manu, or take a spare that i already have.

my point is, i have better access to pc parts and repairs, than xbox stuff....plus i dont want to have to go through MS crappy support if i dont have to.  not trying to be johnny negativity....but im not convinced that an xbmc is the way to go.

[ChadTower]

There is no MS Support for a modded Xbox.

People can do a soft mod for you cheaply.  Or you can do it yourself, it's far easier than setting up WMC.  If you can't softmod an xbox you sure can't set up a network sufficient to run WMC properly.

[hulkster]

There is no MS Support for a modded Xbox.

People can do a soft mod for you cheaply.  Or you can do it yourself, it's far easier than setting up WMC.  If you can't softmod an xbox you sure can't set up a network sufficient to run WMC properly.

k, so you have currently several modded xbox's in your house hooked up to every tv?  is that correct?

[ChadTower]

I have one.  Only need one, but setting up more than one isn't much harder than setting up one.  Just a little more work to mod the extra Xbox.  Anything else, like network setup, would need to be done (and with more difficult requirements) for WMC as well.

[mcfreak]

I love my Vista Media Center, It has 3 tuners, one HD, two analogs connected to Digital Cable boxes.  The power it gives you over a tivo/Digital Cable DVR box is the "Other" stuff.  I have Xbox 360's in the bedrooms and media room that "extend" the interface to those areas. I can watch live TV on all three TV's using a central machine.  It will also extend HD to the other rooms which is the only device I am aware of that can do that. 

I also have a 1.5 Terabyte NAS in a server closet that has all my digital media (Movies, Music, TV Shows) that are shared across all TV's in the house.  There is a great add-on freeware program called My Movies:  http://www.mymoves.name that will automatically get all the cover art for your movies, titles, description, actors, etc and you can play them from the interface.  So instead of having to go find DVD 382 in my collection, I can rip it down, tie it to my movies, and watch it by pressing a few buttons on the remote. 

Here is an example of the interface:
http://www.mymovies.name/screenshots/windows-vista-media-center.aspx

Also, don't forget about the MAME interface for Media Center 

http://www.push-a-button.com.au/products/mce/vista/emucenter/index.php

whoa dude!  thats awesome!  so you wait....you have one media center pc and you run that feed to all of your tvs in your house???  hows that possible without a pc at every tv?  are you like...hooking your wmc pc up at the initial cable feed coming into your house, and then just having all your tvs run off that?  i guess im confused as to how you can get all your tv's to display shared stuff.  or is that what you have the 360s for?  thats a crazy amount of hardware.  i only have 2 tv's and an office/gaming pc that i use.  if i could stream the wmc content to my other tv and to my pc in my office, that would sweet.  i have most of the hardware for the wmc pc cept for the tuner card (suggestions?).  but what else would i need? 

and again, is this even worth it?  i can either upgrade my tivo to an hd tivo for $299 + $199 transfer fee of lifetime subscription....or get a media center pc.  what do you think? 

If you JUST want to Record TV than a DVR/Tivo is your ticket.  If you want fully integrated guides and access all of your content from any room, than you can go the Server (Vista Media Center) / Client (Xbox 360) route.

It's worth it for the "other" stuff.  Read this: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/extender/default.mspx

[leapinlew]

well what if i wanted to upgrade my hd space, or whatever?  im not a modder, and dont like soldering or anything.  what happens if the power supply or something blows in the xbox?  i have to go buy a new one.  if a power supply in my pc blows, i can send it back to the manu, or take a spare that i already have.

my point is, i have better access to pc parts and repairs, than xbox stuff....plus i dont want to have to go through MS crappy support if i dont have to.  not trying to be johnny negativity....but im not convinced that an xbmc is the way to go.

Bad news - computers blow up too. I use a media center in one room and a 360 in the other.

[leapinlew]

How much do you suppose a media center PC setup will cost you? I would think it would still be near 2k. I haven't priced HD tuners or anything in a while, but I can't imagine it would be much cheaper. Especially if you factor in your time.

[J_K_M_A_N]

I have 2 computers downstairs (1 for the wife and 1 for me). Both have 320 gig hard drives in them (I need to get bigger ones) and I have 2 xbox's. One in the living room on the 50" and one in the bedroom (wireless) on a 27". I have 104 movies (so far) on one hard drive and I don't know how many episodes of TV shows on the other. I can stream anything (including the same movie) to both xboxs at the same time. It rocks! Some day I plan on getting a tuner for one or both computers and larger hard drives.

Softmodding the xboxs is SO easy. I use ndure 3.0 withe the hotswap method. I use this guide.

So, I would recommend the xbox way also. (Shock!  ) I was able to pick up an xbox for $30 just the other day on craigslist. Just keep an eye out.

J_K_M_A_N

[lcddream]

buy sage tv http://sagetv.com/ and then use a mediamvp http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_mediamvp.html(supported in sage) to extend your media to the rest of the house.

if you really want to research this, you should probably be asking questions over at the avsforum.com in the HTPC forum

[hulkster]

if you really want to research this, you should probably be asking questions over at the avsforum.com in the HTPC forum

good call.  i will do that.  ive done some research and ive read that a tivo is a cheaper way to do things up front.  however, i want to have a digital feed and i cant get that with my current series 2 tivo.  i need the new hd tivo.  thats all well and good, but if i want to watch ANYTHING outside of the rec room, im out of luck unless i pony up another $300 for another tivo. 

tivo is nice, dont get me wrong, but if you want to have the tivo stuff on more than 1 tv, it sucks.  the wmcpc along with what ive learned are "media extenders" would allow for additional tv hookups/monitor hookups.  right??

i will check out the avs forums though.

[shmokes]

Media extenders are Xbox 360's by the way.  Not exactly cheap.

[xar256]

if you really want to research this, you should probably be asking questions over at the avsforum.com in the HTPC forum

Don't forget about Rampy and the boys over at BYOPVR Lots of good info to be had there.

[hulkster]

k, got some good advice from the people over at the avs forum.  basically what it comes down to is that its too expensive to implement right now the way i want to, plus i only have one hdtv so its not exactly worth it for me to do all this until i can at least stream stuff in hd. 

once i get some more money and better tv's, i may take the plunge.

[J_K_M_A_N]

In that case, keep an eye on craigslist and see if you can pick up an xbox cheap. It is at least fun to play around with. And you can put mame on it and play that on the big screen.

J_K_M_A_N

[mcfreak]

This deal shows up every couple of months if you want to get a cheap HDTV:


Philips Outlet: refurb Philips 30PW9110D/37B 30in widescreen HDTV $270 shipped
07/17  Exp: 07/17  Lowest Price: N/A history    Vote Send this hot deal to a friend add this deal to my favorite deal list! Talk(0)
Store Rating:   Product Reviews: rate it

Philips Outlet has $80 off Philips 30PW9110D/37B 30in widescreen HDTV w/ coupon code: 30WSCRT-0707 (exp 7/17).

refurbished Philips 30PW9110D/37B 30in Widescreen HDTV w/ integrated QAM digital receiver for only $350 - $80 coupon = $270 w/ free shipping.

I have two of them and they are great.

[ChadTower]

The Xbox will upconvert on the fly for you so streaming in standard comes out at 720p. 

[leapinlew]

spent 2k on a wmc?!!?  what the heck are doing on that thing, streaming porn while recording 2 HD broadcasts?!!?  my high end gaming machine i built only cost me $1300. 

k, got some good advice from the people over at the avs forum.  basically what it comes down to is that its too expensive

2 things.

1. Why don't you enlighten us as to what "too expensive" is. Seems like we were telling you it would be expensive and you just couldn't believe it.

2. What was the good advice those AVS nerds gave you that we didn't?

[leapinlew]

my high end gaming machine i built only cost me $1300. 

Also...

Tell me how what components make up a "high end" gaming system and only costs $1,300.

[ChadTower]

He's coming around basically to the advice I gave him from the start, except for using the Xbox.  That will come too if he actually wants the best setup for his price range.

[shmokes]

Chad's right.  You really ought to look into what can be done with an original Xbox and Xbox Media Center.  You can modify it with a solderless chip or even soft-mod it if you're afraid of effing up the system with a soldering iron.  I think XBMC will even stream the content from your TIVO; I know it has no problem streaming all the content from my Replay TV.  Get a TIVO, put Xboxes on all of your other TVs.  Network everything together, including your home computer, and you have EVERYTHING you want for a very tiny fraction of what a full Windows Media Center setup with Media Extenders would run you.

[ChadTower]

Not sure on regular Tivo but I know it won't do anything with a DirecTivo.

[hulkster]

my high end gaming machine i built only cost me $1300. 

Also...

Tell me how what components make up a "high end" gaming system and only costs $1,300.

well this guys comment over on the avs forum basically summed it up for me:

"How badly do you want all this? Are you willing to use a keyboard and mouse at all the tv's or how user friendly does this all have to be? It would be easy enough to connect the pc's to the sdtv's via svideo capable video cards and network them all together to a media server but then you're stuck with not really being able to read text on the sdtv's to properly navigate your media files.

I think you're asking for something that's just not available quite yet , at least not for sdtv and hdtv and user friendliness .

So basically unless you are a tinkering fool like most of us here, maybe you should forget this idea until you have all HDTV's and media extenders are more mature and cheaper."

[boykster]

It IS possible to do, but it is relatively expensive to implement properly.  I agree that a modded xbox plus XBMC is a great low-cost way to go to get an easy to use STB that you can deploy at multiple tv's.  I don't use em, but lots of people do and are happy with the results.

I personally use the comcast HD DVR, and while its no Tivo, its good at what it does - records HD with 2 tuners and lets me watch it whenever I want to.  I only pay $5 a month for it, so no hardware investment.

For watching digital media, I use 2 HTPC's that are distributed throughout the house, running a frontend called DVDLobby (built on mainlobby) and a custom backend component that I built.  Additionally I use girder for inter-PC communication, and Zoomplayer for dvd / media playback.  To control everything I have a custom IR distribution system that I wrote / built.  I store all of my media centrally on a couple of linux file servers running RAID5 arrays.  Its now a very mature system, but it took several years to really work out all the kinks and get everything so that it's bullet proof stable.

HTPCs are great fun, but the amount of tweaking and configuring can get annoying after a while.  I basically have "locked down" my HTPC's now and only experiement every so often, else I spend more time tweaking than actually using them.  I also only use my HTPC's to watch movies.  That's it.  no time-shifting (PVR), music, games, surfing, etc. 

there are lots of people who are also happy with MCE...

[shmokes]

Not sure on regular Tivo but I know it won't do anything with a DirecTivo.

Do the DirectTivos have USB ports on them?  The early TIVOs did not have built-in ethernet ports, but there was a USB ethernet adapter you could get for it.  That ethernet port was what pushed me to ReplayTV early-on as it had it out of the box, but the adapter for the TIVO cost $100.  It's probably practically free on Ebay now, and I would imagine the newer TIVOs have ethernet built-in.

[ChadTower]

Series 1 DirecTivos don't have USB or NICs but you could get an addon NIC, which I do have and it's good.  I've never seen any software for interfacing anything directly with it, though, as the encoding is different than a standard Tivo.  I bought the NIC back when they were still recent and I don't remember it being anywhere near $100.  This one wasn't from Tivo, though, it was from a third party.

Series 2 DirecTivos have USB but it is disabled out of the box, IIRC.  You have to go in and enable it in the OS, which requires hacking the OS or even loading up a custom version of it.

The main issue with the DirecTivos is that they don't have anything resembling the Home Media software.  DirecTV wouldn't allow it - they don't talk to each other, they can't share amongst themselves, and they can't play media from anything else.  I would imagine that's the functionality that a regular Tivo would be using to talk to XBMC.

[Howard_Casto]

I've got to agree with chad on this one.  Just use an xbox.  They are a amazingly powerful rig considering the low price.  Games, emulators, music, video, 720p output,  set-top design, a nice easy to use interface..... 75 bucks!  Unfortunately ANY pc solution that works as well (or should I say close, I've yet to find a pc solution that lets you control everything via remote) is going to cost you a fortune.  Btw the 360 media center options are NOT necessarily as good as the classic xbox.  It supports higher resolutions, but that's about it.  Considering the streaming server you have to setup is very picky, I'd rather stick to my xbox myself. 

Btw you don't really need to mod the harddrive if you have a pc you leave on all the time.  I simply share my media folder on the network and stream all my vids to the xbox from the pc.  It all streams nicely. 

(Sorry if some of this has been covered already, I just skimmed the thread). 

[boykster]

(or should I say close, I've yet to find a pc solution that lets you control everything via remote)

I agree with everything except this statement.  It IS possible to get it setup and do everything via remote seamlessly, but it sure as heck isn't easy.

otherwise, xbox / xbmc is a great way to go

[ChadTower]

Btw you don't really need to mod the harddrive if you have a pc you leave on all the time.  I simply share my media folder on the network and stream all my vids to the xbox from the pc.  It all streams nicely.

That's what I do.  My XBMC Xbox still has the stock drive in it.

[hulkster]

hmmm....well as per my other post, i just got an awesome deal with comcast and im totally wrapped up in hd right now.  i havent even thought any more about the media center, plus my wife would chop my head off if i brought home another console.   

[ChadTower]

She'll put it back on when you download the entire run of Beverly Hills 90210 and Melrose Place, in DivX, and show her how to stream them to that spiffy new HDTV.