now that's a car

[ChadTower]

He's the same guy who says he acts in commercials for a living and yet shows us his Stern HUO pins and talks about his collection of cars.

[koolmoecraig]

Wait, I don't get it.  What's funny about that?

[koolmoecraig]

He's the same guy who says he acts in commercials for a living and yet shows us his Stern HUO pins and talks about his collection of cars.

What does that mean?  That commercials don't pay enough for that?  Oh contrare monfrare.  Plus, my Newport and Polara are only worth about $5000-$8000 each.

Don't hate the playa

[AtomSmasher]

Wait, I don't get it.  What's funny about that?

Well first off, you said the "no replacement for displacement" mentality is the "exact reason" domestics are doing poorly, even though the vast majority of their cars are not performance vehicles.  Just look at the mustang or when the camero was around, for every v8 sold, they would sell 3-4 v6 versions.  Or look at the total number of vehicles available with v8's, only a couple in each of the big three (excluding trucks), the vast majority of their cars are 4cyl or 6cyl.  That mentality has very little or possibly nothing at all to do with why they're doing poorly.  I bet that if you were to go do a survey and ask the random people difference between buying a Ford and buying a Honda, that the vast majority would say reliability.  Hondas are known to run forever, domestic cars are not.

Then you go and compare the Cobalt to the S2000, a $20000 quick passenger car similar to the civic compared to a $30000 roadster.  Gee, I wonder which one would have better performace    Then you dismiss GM's $30000 roadster as primitive instead of comparing to the S2000 probably because you know the solstice has superior performance and handling.

And then you also again try to defend Toyota in NASCAR when no one is saying they're going to do poorly.  They're car will be pretty much the same as every other car in nascar, its the driver that makes the biggest difference.

[koolmoecraig]

Yeah, comparing a Cobalt to and S2000 was a stretch.  How about we compare the Honda that is it's direct competition, the Civic Si.  197hp naturally aspirated.  Cobalt 200hp SUPERCHARGED.  Let's not even talk about the level of refinement and resale value.  It's not even close.  You already mentioned Hondas superior quality so we have that covered.

The Solstice has better performance and handling than an S2000.  Come onnnnnn.  I'll give you straight line speed because of the TURBO advantage(slight) but handling is not even close.  The Solstice understeers like a pig.  The S2000 is completely balanced which is the mark of all great sports cars.  It's not just about ultimate straight line speed.  It is the combined package.  The gear ratios in the GXP Solstice are so poorly matched that it virtually takes the fun out of the car.  The S2000 is a true sports car.  The Solstice GPX is more like a two seat mini muscle car.

Here is one more nugget for you to chew on.  The S2000 came out 7 YEARS before the Solstice and has remained basically unchanged.  Such was the quality and advancement of the engineering.  A 7 year old model that can whip that Solstice on a track and gives up maybe 15% to straight line acceleration.

I'll stick by that primitive comment.

[AtomSmasher]

Like I said, you are a funny man.  I'm not going to continue to prove you wrong over and over again because I know there is no changing your mind that modern domestic cars are junk.  I'll just say that you grossly underestimate the Solstice and that the quality issue is no longer an issue, its now an image problem that will take time for the uninformed public to realize is no longer accurate.

[koolmoecraig]

I know the quality has gotten better but I am not wrong on this point.  In fact, I'm never wrong on any point

I am a Chrysler guy at heart and I would love for them to make something new that I would actually want to buy. 
I hope they make that Demon actually...

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/12/dodge-demon-concept-will-debut-in-geneva/

[AtomSmasher]

I hope they make that Demon actually...

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/12/dodge-demon-concept-will-debut-in-geneva/

We can agree on that point at least 

[AtomSmasher]

The new Dodge Challenger and Chevy Camero look promising too, but you probably don't agree on this point since they both have v8 engines with 425hp.   

[koolmoecraig]

Yeah I love the Challenger but $50k for the Hemi? Jeesh.

[AtomSmasher]

Yeah I love the Challenger but $50k for the Hemi? Jeesh.

the msrp is $50K   

I had no idea, I guess I can scratch that car off my list

[koolmoecraig]

I'm sure you'll be able to get one with a Mitsubishi V6 for cheaper

[tommy]

That challenger is sweet. Too bad Dodge had to go and ruin the good name of the charger and make it look like an everyday average dodge though. The Challenger looks like the classic.

[koolmoecraig]

I think the Chargers are pretty cool.  RWD and a V8.

Remember the FWD Omni based Chargers from the 80's?

http://www.kevinsdodgesite.homestead.com/files/1987SC2.jpg

[tommy]

Oh yeah the new charger is still cool because its RWD and has a V8, but they could have made it look alot better and not just a plain new modern car. It has no flare, nothing to stand out like it should.

[boykster]

I really really really really wanted to like the solstice when it came out...so much so that I was on the waiting list to get one of the first 1000 cars delivered to the states.  when the first one landed in WA state, the dealer let all of us on the waiting list check it out and take a short test drive.....ugh.  Cheap interior, erratic gaps on body panels, rattles in the dash and door panels, etc.   I sold my reservation (for $500) and bought a Lexus IS250.

[koolmoecraig]

I hear ya.  Don't worry, GM will take about 5 years to get it right then promptly cancel production.

[shardian]

Oh yeah the new charger is still cool because its RWD and has a V8, but they could have made it look alot better and not just a plain new modern car. It has no flare, nothing to stand out like it should.

The new charger is very roomy inside. Looking at it's body style, one would assume it would be cramped as hell. After riding in one, I liked it very much. It's too bad that Dodge cars are only reliable up to 50k or so.

[Havok]

I hear ya.  Don't worry, GM will take about 5 years to get it right then promptly cancel production.

Ha - you're so right there...

[koolmoecraig]

Oh yeah the new charger is still cool because its RWD and has a V8, but they could have made it look alot better and not just a plain new modern car. It has no flare, nothing to stand out like it should.

The new charger is very roomy inside. Looking at it's body style, one would assume it would be cramped as hell. After riding in one, I liked it very much. It's too bad that Dodge cars are only reliable up to 50k or so.

That I don't believe at all.  Most of the underpinnings on that car are last generation Mercedes-Benz E-Class.  And quality has been really good on those cars.

[ChadTower]

It's too bad that Dodge cars are only reliable up to 50k or so.

Is that figure miles or price?   

[boykster]

It will be interesting to see how Chrysler adjusts to new ownership.  In all honestly, Daimler's ownership certainly played a big role in their product quality coming up over the past decade.  I hope the new ownership group continues the trend and even improves more....

[pointdablame]

Yeah I love the Challenger but $50k for the Hemi? Jeesh.

Most people put the starting price for the smaller 5.7 HEMI at around $35k. There was talk about a V6 in 2008 as well, but it's looking less likely.  Nothing is set yet, but I doubt that the R/T will go for $50k (not taking into account the very real possibility of ridiculous dealer markups).

Now the SRT8 (scheduled for 2009 with the 6.1 HEMI or maybe even the 392 crate motor) will hover around the $50k mark, and the V6 if it happens may hit $31k or so

I doubt very much that the 2008 Challenger will be $50k MSRP though.  In fact, I'd put money on it being at least $10k under that (not including dealer markups)