ArcadeVGA problem - outputs just a white picture... *FIXED*

[Anubis_au]

I've got my new MAME pc built, Windows and all drivers installed. When I connect a monitor to the VGA port (the 15kHz signal) all I get is a white picture. Am I doing something wrong? Is there some further configuring required to get the 15kHz output? I thought it was simply a matter of installing the drivers for the ArcadeVGA, and away it would go?

Looking for some help from other ArcadeVGA owners... its the new, PCI-E version I bought.

Thanks.

[divemaster127]

If you are trying to hook this to a computer monitor it will not work without the (optional) adaptor you can purchase, these are designed for arcade monitors
dm

[RayB]

the VGA port is for arcade monitors, the DVI port is for PC monitors.

[Zebidee]

.... use a DVI -> VGA adaptor to connect a VGA monitor to the DVI head.

with AVGA2 cards You can run both a VGA monitor (DVI head+adaptor) and an arcade monitor (VGA head+hacked vga cable) at the same time (if you want).

[Anubis_au]

I am connecting from the VGA port into an old Commodore monitor I have, that has a DB-9 connector and accepts RGB input. So, I should be seeing an RGB picture.

I was running from the DVI port to a pc monitor for the purpose of installing the drivers, but now that it's done, I'm working on getting the 15kHz signal happening. And that's where I am falling flat at the moment.

If you are trying to hook this to a computer monitor it will not work without the (optional) adaptor you can purchase, these are designed for arcade monitors
dm

I didn't buy the adapter (1V -> 5V) because I was planning on looking for a SCART tv that accepts RGB (we have a 16:9 Sanyo at home that does accept, but I got the same white picture in that as well). If I end up buying a genuine arcade monitor and chassis (which are available in Australia but more expensive than in America, as you'd expect), then I'll go for the adapter. In the meantime, I'm led to believe that the ArcadeVGA should talk to SCART without needing to up the signal voltage... so my issue would be elsewhere...

BTW Zedibee, I had the exact same cabinet. Big awesome screen, CP big enough for 4 players... but I sold mine last year. Great cab though

[shorthair]

This is totally an Andy question. Alternatively, did you read over the monitor faq at Ultimarc?

[Anubis_au]

Alternatively, did you read over the monitor faq at Ultimarc?

Several times. Windows XP didn't try to install any default ATI drivers. The install went very routine. I thought the RGB picture would come up straight away after the drivers were installed.

In truth, I didn't use the ATI driver remover that Andy says to use, because I was under the impression its only a requirement if Windows uses the default drivers to install the card. Mine didn't; I put Andy's CD in, and away it went.

Anyway, I am waiting on Andy's reply.

[ahofle]

Just curious, did you construct your own cable to go from VGA to DB9?  Are you sure you have the correct pinouts?  I had a presentation monitor with DB9 and I had to hack my own cable (a VGA to DB9 cable I bought didn't work).

[Anubis_au]

From memory it worked with the pc monitor it came with (an old 2nd hand 14", long since thrown out, but the cable was kept... naturally ).

But I'll follow your advise and do a continuity test on the pins. I hope this is the problem.

BTW lucky you were able to find a DB15 -> DB9 cable. I spent an entire lunch hour going from shop to shop, and not one had it...

[Zebidee]

Hey Anubis, thanks about the cab.  I love it, but it doesn't fit in my house!  My doorways and corridors, even windows, are built stupidly.  So it lives in my metal shed, but Canberra winters are very, very cold.  Mine is on sale at the moment on Oz ebay (www.ebay.com.au).  If you wanna have a look, go there and search for GALAXY ARCADE CLASSIC.

I have another Galaxy cab in the shed, w/ 26" arcade monitor and Soul Edge II Ver C PCB.  So I figure I'll have that to carry on with as another project 

If I can't sell at least one, then I figure I'll have to move out to a bigger place ...   

Back on topic, I've done some work for you  I reckon you should check your cable, and this site has pinouts for commodore and other types of monitors:

http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/rgb_pinouts.html

[Anubis_au]

Mine is on sale at the moment on Oz ebay (www.ebay.com.au).  If you wanna have a look, go there and search for GALAXY ARCADE CLASSIC.

Yeah, the reason I sold mine was a) too big, and b) didn't want the four player cab anymore. If I want to play Simpsons or TMNT I'll play the 2-player clones.

I sold mine on ebay also. Fetched $1600, so there is definately a market there (I paid $300 for my cab back in 2003).

Back on topic, I've done some work for you  I reckon you should check your cable, and this site has pinouts for commodore and other types of monitors:

http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/rgb_pinouts.html

Legend! I also did some looking up on the web this arvo (beats work, that's for sure). Found some similar sites, and yeah, am going to check the cable for correct electrical continuity. Hopefully, it solves the issue. Otherwise, its back to waiting on Andy's reply.

[Anubis_au]

Zedibee

One thing on your ebay ad that gpt my interest:

 *Monitor: 25” arcade monitor (converted from NEW Thomson/RCA brand TV)

Don't suppose you have a thread / some info to share on how / what you did this? Or is it a TV with SCART RGB input?

[Anubis_au]

Zedibee

Apparently I underestimated how much of a legend you are.

My research into DB-9 pinouts this afternoon found the standard pinouts for all the various monitor standards, however, looking at the link you provided, I just discovered that the Commodore 1084 (which is the model of my old monitor) had its own unique pinout setup. Its totally different from the standard pinouts. So yeah, to get the testbed going, I will need to redo my cable.

So, hopefully this will solve my issue... I should get around to redoing the cable and testing it tomorrow night, so should have an answer soon.

Once again Zedibee, you rock!!!

[shorthair]

Well, not to steal Zeb's thunder, here, cos he surely knows more about it an all, but notice in the link below there's a diagram of the vga pinout for reference in connecting to an arcade monitor. This is the faq I was refering to, above.

http://www.ultimarc.com/monfaq.html

[Anubis_au]

Well, not to steal Zeb's thunder, here, cos he surely knows more about it an all, but notice in the link below there's a diagram of the vga pinout for reference in connecting to an arcade monitor. This is the faq I was refering to, above.

http://www.ultimarc.com/monfaq.html

You know what Shorthair, you are inded correct. I was going to go with a diagram pulled off the web for the DB-15 pinouts (ie for standard VGA) but looking now at the Ultimarc website, some of the semantics are slightly different, so I will follow the exact pinouts on the Ultimarc website.

So, a big thanks to you for pointing this out... lesson learnt, is not to be too hasty with other's advice / support, and not gloss over things... I could've been playing Pacman on my monitor by now... but hopefully with your help, and Zedibee's, I will be soon

Time to go to work now... will be back online in a few hours...

[Zebidee]

Zedibee

Apparently I underestimated how much of a legend you are.
[...]
Once again Zedibee, you rock!!!

Oh dear, I'm starting to feel a warm fuzzy glow coming on .... 

"*Monitor: 25” arcade monitor (converted from NEW Thomson/RCA brand TV)"
is it a TV with SCART RGB input?

The THomson was indeed done via a VGA->SCART cable.  You raise a topic of interest to me.  I've spent a bit of time poring over TV circuit diagrams before (after all, what else is there to do?), and wondered whether it would be possible to bypass the input decoder on non-SCART TVs and solder the R-G-B-Sync directly into the signal lines BEHIND the decoder...... 

However, I think that doing this would require balls-of-steel and a lot of research beforehand.  Every TV is different.  Not to mention turning a perfectly good TV into slag if you frack it up, or if this theory is completely wrong in the first place.  (I've been watching to much Battlestar Galactica  lately (on my upright cab with the 27" Sony professional video monitor in it ), so sue me, and the auto-edit will cut in if I say  f...).


   

[Anubis_au]

...whether it would be possible to bypass the input decoder on non-SCART TVs and solder the R-G-B-Sync directly into the signal lines BEHIND the decoder......    

I've looked into this myself actually. I found a website describing how a bunch of guys did it:

http://www.porkrind.org/arcade/tv-hack.html

I've discussed this possibility with my Dad, who before he retired, was a tv repairman (yay, relevant and crucial skills so readily at hand!!). You would need to get your hands on the service manual for a tv and see if its possible...

[Zebidee]

Fantastic!  You are The Man Anubis.  Looks like it is possible at any rate.

Looking at service manuals for SCART tvs that I already owned is what gave me that idea.  It occurred to me that many different TV models are simply created for different regions, and are virtually identical except for different regional standard inputs.  Past the input, they are just RGB.  I was able to identify the signal lines on schematics, so it seemed to make sense that it would be possible.  (But probably not on all tvs).

As I already had SCART TVs, feeding the RGB signal wasn't an issue.  But it would open up a whole new world if you could use composite or component input tvs as well, especially for the north american crowd.

It would also help me as I am having trouble finding a *good* quality 51cm/21" SCART TV for a vertical cab - I don't want the screen huge, as I think 21" is plenty for vertical games.  Could put t into a small lowboy cab, which is sitting ready-for-purpose in my shed ....

[Anubis_au]

Not to mention, 51cm TVs with SCART RGB inputs are rare as hen's teeth in Australia, where we do get SCART sometimes... also, if you find one, they will be much more expensive.

A 51cm with component inputs can be got for $100-150, much MUCH cheaper...

[Anubis_au]

It would also help me as I am having trouble finding a *good* quality 51cm/21" SCART TV for a vertical cab

Tell me about it!!

No current model for all the main manufacturers seem to have SCART, but previous models seem to for alot of them. But, we'll keep looking.

I'm almost tempted to buy a $100 TV and have a crack at the hack... or find an old, broken TV and have a go... its a pity we so recently threw a bunch of old TVs out.

[Zebidee]

I just realised that, as of yesterday, I now have a spare 21" TV with component inputs.    I just replaced it with one of those 27" Sony PVMs I have been talking about, with a SCART RGB input from my modded Xbox.  A little bit more cabling to get inputs from my VCR and set-top-box and make it into a TV.  Maybe a TV tuner card and running the signal over the network is a better idea

Gotta say, I think that I never would have bothered with modding an Xbox  given what I can do with PC->TV these days, but that is another subject.

The 21" TV is a "Dick Smith Electronics" brand (=GENERIC).  In itself it is no good for an arcade monitor as it doesn't like being rotated (everything/colours goes wierd if you rotate it to vertical - stays so even after using a degaussing wand).  But it could be a good tester I guess, but might be hard to find a service manual for it.  Or any other TV that isn't needed.  Doesn't have to work perfectly, just well enough.  Can't be hard to find.

[Anubis_au]

Zebidee, I wish you all the luck in the world finding a service manual for the DSE (Dick Smith Electronics) TV.

Lemme tell you a story...

Around a month or two ago, I came across the TV hack link I posted above, and it seemed to open a world of possibilities. Buy a cheap $150 TV from DSE, and hack it into a monitor.

So, after speaking to my Dad and some of his ex-colleagues, it was generally agreed upon the best way to proceed was to find the service manual for the TV model.

So I rang Dick Smith. At a random guess, I asked to speak to their service department. The service dept at Dick Smith just logs a case for a repair. When I asked if they had a service manual, they gave me the national service company that has the Dick Smith warranty repair account.

I rang the company. Asked to speak to a techie. They said all they do is centralise the warranty repairs. Actual repairs happen at a different location. I got their number.

I rang the district repair centre. They didn't have servce manuals, and suggested I speak to their national headquarters (the place I just came from).

It went on and on like this for an hour or two (I am not that taxed at work )

In the end, I was given a number for some country town that has a service manual depot. It turned out to be a business who basically archive service manuals for old TVs. Not very helpful for a brand new TV.

The story concludes with me putting the TV hack idea on the backburner, where its remained till now.

So, as I said, if you go down the path of finding a DSE service manual, good luck. I found the staff to be useless morons who don't know what a service manual even is and have no idea who actually services their product.

However, if you manage to get a hold of one, let me know. We can put our heads together, maybe come up with something to help the community out there.

[Anubis_au]

And now, to get this thread back on topic

I finished transplanting the pc from the slimline case to a new case, and presumed testing of the setup.

First thing was, I tested the DVI port connected to a pc monitor. Normal bootup, got into Windows fine etc, shut down.

Next, plugged the same pc monitor to the VGA port, and powered up. Came up on screen as "could not sync, 59Hz, 15.something kHz signal.

YES!!! the card is outputing 15kHz!!!! Best error message I've ever received.

Then, connected the VGA to my Commodore monitor. Still only a white picture. But now, I am 99.999% certain the problem is with my cable.

So I looked up my exact Commodore monitor in Google. I have a 1084S-P1. When Zebidee gave me the pinouts, it was for the 1084. I should have donemy research better, but I assumed that there was no difference between the 1084 and the 1084S, at least in terms of the pinouts on the DB9 connector.

How wrong I was. They are *completely* different. Where the 1084 has the red pin, the 1084S has Ground, etc. All three colour pins are wrong. No wonder I am getting no signal.

So, hopefully I will soon (sometime this weekend) have some good news to report.

[Zebidee]

Well, looks like you are back on track!  Good luck ...

To be honest, I'd probably prefer to use another TV for this hack.  ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, must be able to pick up an old one for only a few $$.  This DSE TV is never going to be a good arcade monitor, and it is easier to find service manuals for other common brands .  Still, if I could identify the RGB I'd probably give it a go ....

BTW, Dick Smith never made TVs, they just rebadged some other chinese crap TV.  DSE only sell branded TVs because they get more money from selling consumer electronics products, than the hobby stuff that they have historically and traditionally sold to people like us.  They don't even re-stock a lot of hobby parts anymore.  They are no longer a true hobby electronics store.

[shorthair]

Anubis: um, not to jump up an down on ya...but, you could've just researched the cable, first. Much less effort, silly.

[Anubis_au]

BTW, Dick Smith never made TVs, they just rebadged some other chinese crap TV.  DSE only sell branded TVs because they get more money from selling consumer electronics products, than the hobby stuff that they have historically and traditionally sold to people like us.  They don't even re-stock a lot of hobby parts anymore.  They are no longer a true hobby electronics store.

Sad, isn't it? I remember my Dick Smith fun way into electronics kit from way back... I think they still sell them, but its mainly consumer electronics nowadays, as you said. I was in there last weekend for some resistors, and they couldn't even read the colour bands, and they'd put the resistors in the wrong drawers so you couldn't find anything...

[Anubis_au]

Anubis: um, not to jump up an down on ya...but, you could've just researched the cable, first. Much less effort, silly.

I *did* research the cable.

Looked up DB15 and DB9 pinouts.

Would never have guessed Commodore would make their own non-standard pin config... let alone, change it between the 1084 monitor and the 1084S.

But yes, more research. If anything, this early issue / setback will place me in good stead for the rest of the project, because I'm now going to be extra careful with the hard bits coming up. So, in a way, its also a good thing.

And BTW shorthair, I always appreciate feedback, the good and the bad. If people out there are calling me an idiot, I'm probably doing something idiotic I'm my own worst critic believe me, so the feedback and criticism I get from you guys is all part of the learning and building. So, keep it up Jump up and down when its needed.

[shorthair]

Hmhmhm. I'll point out things, but I won't call you an idiot.

[Zebidee]

Shorty, before you get carried away maybe I should "point out" that you didn't exactly research your monovision presentation monitor very well regarding its 15khz & 25khz capabilities.  Nor did you heed advice from Vidmouse and myself, on an earlier thread in April,  about how much it would weigh (Vidmouse tore his rotator cuff).

on 9 May 2007:
I just today got this 27" Monivision presentation monitor. I got it for $50 on ebay. The shipping was about twice that, but as this thing is (supposedly) 140 lbs (wasn't able to carry it from the car ... 

[shorthair]

I didn't think it was capable of 15 and 25khz resolutions, and didn't get it for that. On the second part, I wasn't specific enough. Because of the box it was still in...well, the packing that was around it...it came on a pallete with bubble wrap and cardboard around it but nothing but the pallet underneath and so nothing after off the palette and into my car...because of the packing, I couldn't get it to my door by myself. By itself, picking it up and carrying it, that I could do.

Not to say I haven't done as you said in some cases, but it wasn't those above.

[Anubis_au]

OK, enough pointing things out guys

No-one on here does this hobby perfectly (except maybe Knievel...)

And sadly the new cable testing will have to wait until tomorrow as I am off to see Australia play Uruguay in a "friendly" football game (soccer to you Americans). Wish us luck. Hopefully, it will be a good grudge game, as last time we played for the final of the World Cup and we beat them  

[Zebidee]

Three cheers to that!  Wish I could find a mexican wave emoticon .... 

[shorthair]

Well, though I didn't say so, I initially wondered about the cable cos in the little electronics instruction I've had, that is the first thing to check is connections and compatibility. Again, not that I've always just done that, either. And, grudge game?

[Anubis_au]

A grudge match is basically a game where the two teams are holding a grudge over some previous game / disagreement etc. The game can then descend into a down n dirty match, a grudge match.

Probably the classic example for modern football is whenever England play Argentina. They have the Falklands War and the infamous Hand of God incident from 1986, so whenever those countries play, its always a grudge match (and thus, very fun to watch).

At any rate, we lost last night to Uruguay, 2-1. Great game though. And, I got to see Alvaro Recoba play live.

[Anubis_au]

And I completely forgot, the remade cable (with 1084S pinouts) worked.

Connected the monitor up, turned the pc on, and it worked. Windows at 15kHz!

Next thing is to test MAME and how the various games come up looking.

[Zebidee]

And I completely forgot, the remade cable (with 1084S pinouts) worked.

Connected the monitor up, turned the pc on, and it worked. Windows at 15kHz!

You rippa!

We might have lost the soccer, but it is good to know that an Aussie is winning somewhere

[Anubis_au]

We might have lost the soccer, but it is good to know that an Aussie is winning somewhere

Thanks mate. It's good to have it going finally. Now I can move onto Phase 2 and 3 of my project.

Phase 2: configure all the software

Phase 3: select and purchase a monitor for my cab

At what point in time should I be making a new project announcement, btw?

[shorthair]

Good show.

futbol: ah, that's what I though but I don't watch tv, let alone sports, so I wouldn't know. Was on another forum where some of the folk were brits and Cricket became a topic (as does baseball with the American folk) and I had to ask a lot of questions, cos even with Wikipedia, it didn't all make sense. Brits and their complexity in games.

[Anubis_au]

If you follow baseball, you shouldn't have that much difficulty following cricket. The rules are different, and there are nuances to both games that you have to be into it to get, but at the end of the day, its one team fielding and bowling (pitching in baseball), the other team meanwhile is batting and tries to hit the ball and score runs.

[shorthair]

Like I said, I stay away from watching TV, particularly sports, but of course played them as a kid (much more fun...outside of a league, that is...than watching them), and would disagree on that last. Not knowing the particulars of any sport (particularly in brit sports as they have subtleties, whereas American sports just have complications - a matter of bewildering vs merely ---smurfing--- confusing) means you're not sure if anything's really happening. Of course, on the street as kids, and as we didn't often have more than four around to play, we played simplified versions. Which I really liked cos it was really about the meat of playing.